General Debate 19 May 2010

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Luc Hansen

Popular denialism (according to New Scientist):

1. Climate change denial

2. Evolution denial

3. Holocaust denial

4. Aids denial

5. 9/11 denial (ie it was the gummint)

6. Vaccine denial (even Tony Blair got over that one)

7. Tobacco denial (passe now, surely, but very strong when I was young)

Say Kris, how many boxes do tick? My guess would be at least 5.

And the only meaning of the Mayan calender is that it is the end of that period – also, we are not Mayans, but I suspect you would argue with both those points: far too factual.
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May 19, 2010 6:06pm
Kris K

JiveKitty 5:45 pm,

Kris K: Seen this? http://english.aljazeera.net//news/africa/2010/05/2010518858453672.html The mindset behind it is worrying.

From your link:

Nigerian senator marries girl of 13

Senator Yerima has defended his decision to marry the 13-year-old, saying it is Islamic [Al Jazeera]

[…]

“If you have a law that says you cannot marry a 13-year-old. If you have a law that says you cannot marry a-15-year old, then why on God’s green earth, will a guy who is a senator, who makes laws, violate or break that same law. It’s because he thinks the law is not applicable to him,” said one rights group official.

[…]

Worrying indeed, Jive. And thanks.
This just highlights the attitude of many Muslims – where Muslim practices trump the local laws of their country of residence. And this raises the question of why would you allow someone into your country who holds no regard for your laws, and likely places even less value on you culture or customs?

And then Muslim nations have the audacity to say the West offends Islam – hypocrite doesn’t begin to cover it.
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May 19, 2010 6:10pm
Luc Hansen

More on the worrying Muslim mindset: http://english.aljazeera.net/video/2010513111641704107.html
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May 19, 2010 6:16pm
Luc Hansen

The original of this disappeared into a black hole somewhere, so if this duplicates, I apologise.

The seven ~~deadly sins~~ most popular denialisms:

climate change

evolution

holocaust

aids

9/11 (the gimmint done it)

vaccine (even Tony Blair was able to get past that one)

tobacco (strong when I was a lot younger)

Kris, 7 out of 7 for you?
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May 19, 2010 6:19pm
Kris K

krazykiwi 6:03 pm,

Maybe the IPCC and NOAA both use trained chimps in their forecasts – although based on the results that’s an insult to trained chimps everywhere.
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May 19, 2010 6:20pm
Kris K

Luc Hansen 6:19 pm,

Actually Lucy, I only scored 2 out of 7.
But it does highlight that much of what you say here is only about 28.6% accurate …
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May 19, 2010 6:28pm
philu

kkk..and right-something….really give boring insult….

..eh..?

(managed to get yr head around sales-tax/gst there yet…?..kkk..?

you really are a fucken brainstrust…eh..?

and clear proof of humans mating with neandarthals..

..eh..?)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 19, 2010 6:32pm
krazykiwi

New UN climate chief appointed

Figueres, 53, the choice of U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, is the first leader of the U.N. climate change secretariat to come from a developing country. She will take over from Dutchman Yvo de Boer from July 1.
::
The scale of Figueres’ task is underscored by a Copenhagen summit where 120 world leaders failed to reach a binding deal, pledging instead to mobilize $30 billion from 2010-2012 to help poor countries deal with droughts and floods, and to try to limit warming to less than 2 degrees Celsius.
…
In an interview with Reuters after her appointment, Figueres said the world can salvage a new deal to combat global warming but this was not a priority for 2010. Rich countries must first fulfill their pledges on climate aid, she said.

Translation: Hmmm, let’s forget the climate, we’re losing that battle to science anyway. Let’s just guilt some cash out of those rich-prick countries, skim a bit off for to help fund the UN’s global governance ambitions, and pass the rest on to UN supporters in the 3rd world. Job done.
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May 19, 2010 6:35pm
Luc Hansen

And Kris, how long did it take you to accept the other 5 as they arose?
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May 19, 2010 6:35pm
JiveKitty

Luc Hansen: Conserving bandwidth, but from what I read that is pretty neat. The other mindset worries me because there seems to be a bit of an attitude that it is acceptable and that it should be tolerated as cultural difference. Not from those cited in that example on the whole, but the responses to “Everybody Draw Muhammed Day”, for example, have not exactly been rational.

As for your list, my view:

Climate change. It happens. Does man cause a significant amount of it? I find it likely given man’s ubiquitous impact the world over that man contributes significantly to it. Is it a bad thing? Not sure. I suspect the world’s ecosystem will compensate for it. As to whether humans will be able to, I don’t know.

Evolution. Proven in the lab. Logical explanation which fits with observations.

Holocaust. According to historical evidence, it happened. Deniers don’t have factual basis for saying otherwise as far as I can tell.

AIDS. It exists.

9/11. The government didn’t do it.

Vaccine. As in vaccinations are bad and part of some government/pharma conspiracy? I think parents who buy into that crap are fucking stupid.

Tobacco. Haven’t heard that theory. Don’t know anything about it.
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May 19, 2010 6:45pm
Viking2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUAiME8sjfw&feature=player_embedded
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May 19, 2010 6:59pm
JiveKitty

@Luc: http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/05/18/yeah/ Coincidence?
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May 19, 2010 7:03pm
krazykiwi

Leaked Doc Proves Spain’s ‘Green’ Policies — the Basis for Obama’s — an Economic Disaster (PJM Exclusive)

Pajamas Media has received a leaked internal assessment produced by Spain’s Zapatero administration. The assessment confirms the key charges previously made by non-governmental Spanish experts in a damning report exposing the catastrophic economic failure of Spain’s “green economy” initiatives. Read: Lessons from the Spanish Renewables Bubble by Gabriel Calzada Álvarez PhD et al

On eight separate occasions, President Barack Obama has referred to the “green economy” policies enacted by Spain as being the model for what he envisioned for America.

Later came the revelation that Obama administration senior Energy Department official Cathy Zoi — someone with serious publicized conflict of interest issues — demanded an urgent U.S. response to the damaging report from the non-governmental Spanish experts so as to protect the Obama administration’s plans.
::
But today’s leaked document reveals that even the socialist Spanish government now acknowledges the ruinous effects of green economic policy.

Get that last line: “even the socialist Spanish government now acknowledges the ruinous effects of green economic policy” !!

I could see this coming… after a Spanish solar energy company found they could use diesel-powered searchlights to power their solar cells at night and make a killing from the Spanish Government’s ‘Green Energy’ credits programme.
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May 19, 2010 7:21pm
Chthoniid

@RightNow

…And that got me to wondering why anyone who believed the theory of evolution would believe the AGW hype, given that (if it was real) it’s just the sort of thing that would prompt an evolutionary change.

The problem is that the evolutionary change we’re talking about, is mass extinction.

As far as we can tell, almost every mass extinction event on this planet has been accompanied by significant climate change.
The big one- the one that came close to wiping out all life- in the Permian-Triassic has been linked to the volcanic events that laid down the Siberian traps (also pumping out about 23 million cubic km of ash & gas). That took about 7m years to recover from. This is the only stratas for which we have no coal or peat. No suitable vegetation survived.

The KT extinction wasn’t only just accompanied by a meteorite strike (wiping out the dinosaurs), the resultant nuclear-winter lasted for about 10,000 years. Nobody thinks the volcanic eruptions associated with the Deccan traps helped either.

Punishing the atmosphere really doesn’t seem to be something inimical to life.
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May 19, 2010 7:25pm
LeftRightOut

Kris K (2290) Says:

May 19th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
RightNow 5:30 pm,

Kris, is that date accepted widely among Christians?

No, and I’m not a date setter, but I do accept much of what we see today are signs (according to biblical prophecy) that the end of the age is at hand. 21st December 2012 is when the Mayan Calendar expires (you probably knew that though).

No, I didn’t. How does a calendar expire? Don’t you just add one to the year and call it 2013?
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May 19, 2010 7:27pm
jaba

just saw the Question Time fight .. great stuff and it again showed but a sook poor old daffy is .. the biggest verbal abuser in NZ Politics and he got offended his colleague was called a puppet of the HOS .. what a wanker. I heard Full Moon King tell John Key his nose was growing which caused a battle a few months ago.
The weird one .. oops, better clarify that as it could mean many MP’s .. Hodgson was hammered by Key at the end.
At one stage, I thought Jabba the Hutt had turned up but it was Parekura barley alive an at once stage Hipkins seemed in a trance .. loved it
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May 19, 2010 7:47pm
philu

“..Hodgson was hammered by Key at the end…”

how so..?

do tell..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 19, 2010 7:51pm
jaba

get you have smoke in your eyes and ears philu, you must keep off the drugs man heyeeeeee eh
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May 19, 2010 8:09pm
jaba

to be more specific philu man, try from 2:29 mins into question 12 man eh
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May 19, 2010 8:21pm
Steve

There seems to be a problem about the GST increase. It is a 20% increase.
Say ‘A’ is the Govt.

‘B’ sells something to ‘C’ for $100 +GST. That is $112.50.

Soon ‘B’ will sell to ‘C’ something for $100 +GST which will be $115.

Now ‘A’ (the Govt) gets $15 instead of the $12.50.

AND THAT IS AN INCREASE OF 20% you morons. The Govt does not care what you pay for the Goods or Service, the Govt gets an increase of 20% on the GST content
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May 19, 2010 8:29pm
JiveKitty

Yes, it is 20% on government revenue from GST provided the same amount of goods and services is purchased. Who has been denying this?
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May 19, 2010 8:37pm
Steve

Ahhh the purchases may go down, so less GST. Correct JiveKitty
Trouble is Govt and Local Govt tax themselves and then pay penalties to themselves, all have GST content.
These bastards are ripping us off
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May 19, 2010 9:00pm

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