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May 14, 2010 9:35am by David Farrar

General Debate 14 May 2010

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General Debate

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mickysavage

Morning DPF

Did you really use the OIA to try and find out the identities of kiwis who had asked for information from the Government?
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May 14, 2010 9:36am
philu

could the oia be used to find the ip addresses/identities of the most vile of the commenters on this site..?

..those who hurl the foulest..racist and other..abuse…

..while snivelling behind a fake name..?

it could be the time to out them…

i see no other way of stopping them…

..(and their cowardly/racist attacks..)

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 14, 2010 9:43am
Chicken Little

We already know who Mickey is phool. Do you want his identity?
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May 14, 2010 9:48am
philu

no one has a right to fucken ‘anonymity’…

..especially when they use it to foment racial hatred..

i think it’s way past time to stop the fuckers in their tracks..

..and the one sure way..

..will be to identify them..

..and make them take ownership of their vileness..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 14, 2010 9:48am
Say Goodbye to Hollywood

I think Phil is having a conversation with himself.
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May 14, 2010 9:49am
Kris K

Are we happy with the implications of this? More Big Brother encroaching on our lives?

For those on Wi-Fi Google now has your Wi-Fi connection details. While the following is an Australian article, this issue was raised on Morning Report, National Radio, thismorning as being an issue in New Zealand as well.

Does Google want your Wi-Fi data too?

Google Australia will today be sent a “please explain” letter from two privacy organisations demanding to know why the company has been collecting personal Wi-Fi network data from Australian homes alongside the images it takes with its Street View cameras.

The letter comes in response to recent reports that the company has been quietly collecting Wi-Fi data around the world when taking pictures of streets and houses for its mapping service.

[…]
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May 14, 2010 9:50am
Chicken Little

You could stop commenting here phool, I’m fairly sure those commentors you don’t like would stop being a bother to you.

ps – please don’t cry on the internet – satan kills a kitten every time you do. thanks.
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May 14, 2010 9:50am
philu

how bout yours there..?..chicky..?

ready to reap the whirlwind of yr record of hatred..?

ready for friends and family to read yr words..?

..eh..?

and also farrar..?

when are you going to clean up this sewer..?

..and make commenters use their real names..?

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 14, 2010 9:51am
philu

gutless fucken wankers..

aren’t they..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 14, 2010 9:52am
NOt1tocommentoften

philu (8133) Says:

May 14th, 2010 at 9:43 am
could the oia be used to find the ip addresses/identities of the most vile of the commenters on this site..?

..those who hurl the foulest..racist and other..abuse…

No – the OIA only state sector agencies of which DPF or kiwiblog is not. Sorry Philu – people will keep hiding…
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May 14, 2010 9:54am
JiveKitty

This amuses me: “How to learn to live with Tories” (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/13/tories-conservative-david-cameron)

@Kris K: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWWQdhHPagE&feature=player_embedded You might find this interesting. (If the link doesn’t work, it’s been embedded here: http://drawthedivine.tumblr.com/post/588508765/this-illustrates-the-importance-of-starting-a )
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May 14, 2010 9:55am
big bruv

Who is inciting racial hatred Phool?

Apart from you….
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May 14, 2010 9:56am
m@tt

Another fantastic image of NZ courtesy of our minister for tourism:
BBC:NZ PM offends Maori with cannibal joke
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May 14, 2010 9:56am
Say Goodbye to Hollywood

I thought everyone knew my name, just call me Bill, Phil. Hey that rhymes!
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May 14, 2010 9:56am
starboard

phool’s havin another online breakdown…
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May 14, 2010 9:57am
RightNow

Since the climate hasn’t been warming for over a decade and the anthropogenic signal turns out to be UHI, can we dump the stupid ETS now?
Imagine how stupid you must feel if you believed the crap they tried to peddle, when the thermometers they based the warming on turn out to be based at airports and the like. Worse still that after receiving millions in grants to gather the data, a bunch of guys in their spare time, working for free for the sake of mankind, take photos that prove how crap the quality of the data really is. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/05/13/where-the-is-svalbards-weather-station/

Hilarious, from my POV anyway. Not so funny for those people who will actually suffer because prices will increase when the ETS kicks in, but I guess the AGW faithful don’t actually care about them.
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May 14, 2010 10:01am
dime

phil – havent seen a lot of racism on here lately. apart from leftrightout and his problem with Asians.

who ya talkin about?
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May 14, 2010 10:01am
tom hunter

phool’s havin another online breakdown…

And you guys are enabling him 😉
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May 14, 2010 10:02am
peterwn

Morning Micky – you asked that OIA question yesterday. Have you got a hooter fitted to your computer which quacks when DPF opens the general debate?
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May 14, 2010 10:07am
philu

“..No – the OIA only state sector agencies of which DPF or kiwiblog is not. Sorry Philu – people will keep hiding..”

so it is down to farrar to stop the racial abuse..

..he can do that either using demerits..

or..more effectively..by making commenters use their real names..

(over to you..farrar..

are you going to clean up this open-sewer you host..?

..you may have desired a forum for open political debate..

..it is not that now..

..it is just a haven for psychopaths..

time to take out the racist trash..farrar..

..’cos you/kiwiblog is fast becoming an example of the very worst of yellow journalism…

more ‘truth’..than ‘truth’..at its’ vilest..

..eh..?

does that make you feel good/proud..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 14, 2010 10:10am
Ryan Sproull

Guys, let’s not turn this into another GD filled with people talking about Philu.

If you don’t want to listen to him, install the RIP add-on to Firefox – http://rip.mozdev.org/ – and use the Kiwiblog comments filter found here: http://ripwiki.pbworks.com/K-RIPs

Note – you will have to change the year from 2009 to 2010 in the filter.
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May 14, 2010 10:15am
JiveKitty

Who’s racially abusing people today?
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May 14, 2010 10:15am
Ryan Sproull

Does anyone else get a terrible mental image when Rob Fyfe signs the word “bollocks” with that look on his face?
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May 14, 2010 10:18am
tom hunter

Note – you will have to change the year from 2009 to 2010 in the filter.

Actually you don’t even need to do that. Leave out the year all together from that line of script.
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May 14, 2010 10:23am
Repton

Are we happy with the implications of this? More Big Brother encroaching on our lives?

For those on Wi-Fi Google now has your Wi-Fi connection details. While the following is an Australian article, this issue was raised on Morning Report, National Radio, thismorning as being an issue in New Zealand as well.

Can I private company be “Big Brother”? There’s no law against you driving around collecting the same information…
(or, if there is a law against it, then no problem, right? Just prosecute them if they don’t dump the data..)

My guess is that they’re doing it so they can add location services to Android phones. You’re in range of a wireless network? Look up the access point in Google’s database, and it will tell you where you are.
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May 14, 2010 10:31am
Guy Fawkes

From the Telegraph front page.

Similar legacy from the Klark years, but hushed up more?

“With the corpse of New Labour’s government still warm on the mortician’s slab, an inquest into the death of its salesmen has already begun. David Miliband, the bookies’ favourite to take over as leader, says he will tour the country to find out what went wrong. At the risk of doing his party an undeserved favour, let’s save Bananaman the cost of a trip.
Despite its record of fiscal incompetence, constitutional vandalism and disregard for Middle England, Gordon Brown’s administration ought never to have collapsed. It had, after all, created for itself a client class of supplicant voters. As part of a grand plan for permanent office, more than one million immigrants were handed British passports (80 per cent of first-generation arrivals vote Labour) and 900,000 workers added to the public-sector payroll.

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More pernicious still, Mr Brown and his ministers were delighted to overlook a grotesque distortion in the make-up of parliamentary boundaries, which meant that a 30 per cent vote for Labour produced about 300 seats, whereas the same percentage for the Conservatives delivered only 200 seats. In short, just about everything that could have been done to bend the system in New Labour’s favour was in place by the time the election was called.
The problem, however, was that the project had been constructed upon a moral cesspit. The party’s membership had been taken prisoner by a gang of desperadoes who clung to a conviction that honesty and integrity were disposable luxuries, and substance an unwelcome substitute for propaganda. The upshot was a dystopian regime in which Lord Mandelson and Alastair Campbell were recalled from ignominy to orchestrate a campaign of lavish deceit.
Together they became Mr Brown’s very own Squealer, the insidious porker in Animal Farm who manipulates language to justify his boss’s tyranny, while limiting debate and confusing the lower orders. In extremis, when awkward questions persist, Squealer fires off statistics to “prove” that life is improving, and warns darkly against the return of the farm’s previous owner.
Lord Mandelson had twice been ejected from Cabinet over improper conduct. Mr Campbell was a central figure in the work of fiction that masqueraded as a security dossier on Saddam Hussein’s “threat” to the United Kingdom. They had stripped themselves of legitimacy, yet were regarded by Mr Brown as uniquely qualified to help him retain the keys to No 10. It was a revolting union of unprincipled, unelected, unloved charlatans.
As the campaign developed, it was soon clear that New Labour was not going to win another Commons majority. After a decade of the government’s chicanery, voters had had enough. Ministers, of course, blamed persecution by the press (even The Guardian deserted), but it was Mr Brown’s financial mismanagement that hung like a burning tyre round his MPs’ necks.
Unemployment is higher today than in 1997, as are taxes. The pound is worth less than 13 years ago, as are many private pension schemes. Personal insolvencies are at record levels. Worst of all, the state is borrowing one pound in every four that it spends, and our collective debt is set to double by 2014-15 to about £1.4 trillion, equal to one year’s GDP.
The “success” of New Labour’s economic expansion was a sham, based on a simple formula: spend more than we earn; pass off consumption as investment; wallow in self congratulation. Through the “boom” times of 2003-2007, all of Mr Brown’s budgets involved massive borrowing. He told us we were getting richer, while in effect making us poorer.
In those five years alone, he clocked up £160 billion of debt. These are harsh, unavoidable facts. The legacy of that profligacy will bear down on British taxpayers for generations. As Niall Ferguson, professor of history at Harvard, has concluded, Mr Brown’s stewardship of the economy was a “disaster”.
With their jobs gone and bank accounts empty, a large number of New Labour voters worked out they had been conned. Millions deserted the party. Faced with the horror of eviction, Labour’s top brass came up with a political confection in a last-ditch effort to alchemise miserable defeat into glorious victory: the Progressive Alliance. Do you remember seeing this on your ballot paper? No, that’s because it was not there; it doesn’t exist.
Never mind, shame has never been a burden to Mr Brown’s Squealers. On election night, as the exit polls indicated that the prime minister was no more popular or trusted than Michael Foot had been in 1983, his favourite emissaries rushed to the microphones to “interpret” the results. My jaw dropped as I heard Jack Dromey (aka Mr Harperson) claim: “The real losers tonight are the Conservatives.” This was life mimicking art: Orwell’s allegory had become the how-to-cope manual for New Labour’s response unit.
The Progressive Alliance (a Lab-Lib coalition, plus anyone who had not voted Conservative) was hailed as the new force in British politics by Mr Brown’s dwindling band of sycophants. Mr Cameron, they incanted, had been rejected. The electorate had spoken: permission had been given for a quick return to the eternal summer of a tax-and-waste under a New Labour-led government.
Foremost among these comedians was Mr Campbell, who, having battled gamely to overcome alcoholism, appears to have succumbed to an even more powerful intoxicant: the fumes from his own exhaust. Others, such as Peter Hain and Ed Balls, are, one suspects, inhaling similar hallucinatory gases.
Overlooking the inconvenient truth that of the 29 million people who voted, 21 million did not endorse New Labour, they tried, for a few, frantic, embarrassing days, to persuade us that their party’s role in government remained the natural order of things – the way it was meant to be.
How crushing for them to discover that power-hungry rivals see life differently. When the Liberals prefer to get in bed with Conservatives than sleep with New Labour, it’s time to admit that the deodorant is not working.
Having provided first-class travel for 13 years, New Labour’s gravy train has just pulled away, leaving the party’s leaders and apologists stuck on the platform without a ticket. For them, the free ride is over.
We, however, will continue to pay a heavy price, as taxes rise, services are cut, interest rates increase, businesses are lost and jobs wiped out. According to Professor John Kay, the Oxford economist: “Whatever action the new [Con-Lib] government takes, the underlying structural problem will get worse.”
As Mr Miliband trudges across Britain in his journey of discovery, he could do worse than read Sun Tzu’s The Art of War, in which the author warns of the pitfalls for a general, including: Recklessness, leading to destruction; Cowardice, leading to capture; and a Hot Temper, prone to provocation. It was these flaws, allied to what The Economist identified as Mr Brown’s “mania for scheming” and “moralising drivel”, that finished New Labour.”
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May 14, 2010 10:33am
Brian Harmer

If you don’t want to listen to him, install the RIP add-on to Firefox – http://rip.mozdev.org/ – and use the Kiwiblog comments filter found here: http://ripwiki.pbworks.com/K-RIPs

Does anyone do this for other browsers (I prefer Chrome)?
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May 14, 2010 10:33am
Repton

From The Herald:

Another Black Power member said the unprovoked attack was beneath the gang’s code. He said when a gang-affiliated member stepped out of line, the usual practice was to get another member to “rough him up”.

If only more of us had the moral code of Black Power members, eh?
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May 14, 2010 10:35am
Ryan Sproull

Does anyone do this for other browsers (I prefer Chrome)?

Not that I know of. It was a guy named DC who created the script for Kiwiblog. Chrome’s nice, but I use so many add-ons (NoScript, Adblock, Flashblock, RIP, Read It Later, Stumbleupon, Delicious and User Agent Switcher) that I can’t leave it.
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May 14, 2010 10:38am
malcolm

If you don’t want Google or others getting basic info on your wifi, don’t leave SSID Broadcast on. Simple.

Moaning about Google collecting this info is a bit like having a ForSale sign outside your house and then complaining that people are reading it.
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May 14, 2010 10:39am
Guy Fawkes

Just how many comments do we have to suffer from the Phool on here, if you are a committed Safari user?
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May 14, 2010 10:39am
malcolm

Glasshouses, stones? You’ve just cut-n-pasted the complete text from a newspaper website. How about a link and a few quotes?
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May 14, 2010 10:44am
Bevan

So who are these people spreading racial hatred? Apart from Phil of course.
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May 14, 2010 10:47am
dime

google – do no evil! its like a tui ad.
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May 14, 2010 10:55am
Boloni

Leave philu alone.I find it comforting that I am not the stupidist person in the world
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May 14, 2010 10:59am
mickysavage

Morning Peterwn

Morning Micky – you asked that OIA question yesterday. Have you got a hooter fitted to your computer which quacks when DPF opens the general debate?

Just looking for an answer …
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May 14, 2010 10:59am
MikeNZ

I view people entering someone elses computer as the same as burglary.
Is Google aiding and abetting burglary?
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May 14, 2010 11:03am
philu

“..So who are these people spreading racial hatred?..”

go to the reeking stench that is the ‘no more dinner jokes’ thread…

(you(?)/most will need to bathe afterwards..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 14, 2010 11:03am
LeftRightOut

Where’s Rusty the Redbaiter hiding these days?

Here’s a classic outing of the stupidity that is Sarah Bjelke Palin.

Sarah Palin can’t seem to distinguish between the bible and the American Constitution.

Appearing recently on Bill O’Reilly’s TV show, Palin advised that what we need to do in this country is –

“Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant — they’re quite clear — that we would create law based on the God of the bible and the ten commandments.”

And I’m prepared to bet she doesn’t even know which set of 10 she prefers.

While God played a part in the personal lives of many of our founders (though not all), the truth is that nowhere in the United States Constitution can you find the word “God” – not even once.

Oops, big oversight, that one. has Sarah Bjelke Palin even read the US Consitution?

If people like Sarah Palin wish to argue that the nation ought to follow a course that places religion squarely into the law making process, I suppose that is their right.

However, the continuous effort by Palin and friends to pervert the true history of the nation and the intentions of the founders is nothing short of subversive and clearly dangerous.

I’d add that it also shows an astounding ignorance of the foundation of the American Republic and its laws. How can anyone take this drongo and her backers seriously?

While the religious right are free to vote for candidates who share their reliance on religious belief, they are not free to re-imagine the fundamentals of this country – at least not without putting their reinvention through the rigorous process of amending, or re-writing, our Constitution.

That’s the way it was intended to be done and even Sarah Palin doesn’t get to make it otherwise.

http://trueslant.com/rickungar/2010/05/10/the-palin-principle-bible-trumps-constitution/
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May 14, 2010 11:04am
malcolm

I view people entering someone elses computer as the same as burglary.

Mike, they’re not entering your computer. If you have SSID Broadcast enabled then you’ve decided* that you want to broadcast the presence and security status of your wifi network to anyone within earshot. If you don’t want that, RTFM and disable it.

*Maybe not a conscious decision as SSID is usually enabled as a default. But still, RTFM.
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May 14, 2010 11:14am
MikeNZ

sorry Malcolm what does RTFM mean?
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May 14, 2010 11:16am
Jack5

New topic for a mo…

Christchurch Mayor “Sideshow Bob” Parker gives centre-right folk in Christchurch a slight taste of what it must have been like for Churchill in World War 2, when he had to make a pact with Stalin to defeat Hitler.

Will we centre-rightists and rightists have to vote for Jim Anderton for Mayor?

It looks a bit like it with release in today’s Christchurch Press of the $113 million cost of the city’s flashest new building, which is to house mroe than 1200 Christchurch Council workers and, of course, Sideshow Bob. The rent will be $8.2 million a year. THe Council is a 50:50 partner with Ngai Tahu in the property company putting up the building, but it’s share of the rent will do little or no more than pay for the interest on the loan the council raised to finance its stake, and the council’s share of building depreciation.

Parker has been an appalling profligate, in spending and in council staff blow-out. He’s done nothing to rein in the council’s spread into competition with local contractors and businesses, and even with those in some North Island centres.

Sadly the choice for many Christchurchers on the right, like me, will be Anderton or not voting at all.
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May 14, 2010 11:17am
MikeNZ

David
can’t you rip philu permamently.
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May 14, 2010 11:18am
Ryan Sproull

sorry Malcolm what does RTFM mean?

Read the fucking manual.
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May 14, 2010 11:18am
malcolm

Sorry, it means “read the manual”. It’s used so much in IT circles that it’s lost its offensive nature – until someone asks what it means and then I realise that it’s actually a bit obnoxious. Sorry, not intended.
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May 14, 2010 11:19am
MikeNZ

Thanks Ryan
now where is the dial a nerds phone no?
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May 14, 2010 11:20am
krazykiwi

Hmmm malcolm. The jury’s still out for me on this one. If I walk down Lampton Quay I’m ‘broadcasting’ my presence. That doesn’t give the state the right to take my photo, name and my location and store and openly publish it. That would be breech of privacy.

Back to SSID’s – I broadcast these because I’m authorising trusted devices near me to find it and possibly connect. Harvesting this information without my knowledge, and then publishing it without my consent is breach of my privacy. Can you imagine the outcry of the government did this?
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May 14, 2010 11:21am
Scott

Left right out — I think Sarah Palin is fabulous.
We note that it is you trying to hijack this thread to become a religious discussion. People moan about the Christians making General Debate always about religious issues. But I have been saying for some time that it is atheists (presumably like yourself) who are starting these discussions.

But look you are obviously happy in the socialist secular republic of Aotearoa that we are becoming. If only the United States of America could share our happiness. If only they could become less religious, if only all of their politicians were like Al Gore and Howard Dean, wouldn’t things be grand. I thing that pretty much sums up your argument.

Perhaps you should consider Left Right out — why you see the need to comment so often on religious matters? Perhaps you have a guilty conscience? Perhaps you are a sinner in need of a saviour? Like all of us really.
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May 14, 2010 11:26am
Ryan Sproull

DPF, here’s one for you: http://www.dearlistener.co.nz/

Air NZ respond to the Listener.
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May 14, 2010 11:29am
malcolm

Krazykiwi, the difference is that you retain control of your privacy with wifi. If you don’t want people to see your network, then don’t SSID broadcast.

If you do broadcast, then it’s analogous to putting a ForSale sign on your lawn and then complaining that people are stopping and noting down the details.
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May 14, 2010 11:30am
JiveKitty

LRO: Agree. Especially given article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli as signed by John Adams and others: “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”
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May 14, 2010 11:30am
Jack5

Philu posted this about DPF, on a May 13 thread, but at 9.23am today:

.you are nothing but an agent of racial division in this country..

..aren’t you..?

trying to foment racial-hatred…

..and to reopen wounds others are trying to heal…

..how d’ya sleep…?

Philu, lighten up. DPF allows you to impose your grammarless garbage on us relentlessly, and you bite his blog fingers like this? He’s the host and editor, not a warder!

There must be something humorous in your career you could entertain us with? What about the armed holdup when you were off the wagon? Was this a Marx brothers episode? Did you hand over a note chockful of fullstops and without capitals, and the person at the cash register, stunned, said: “what the fuck is this? I don’t read Morse code?”

Did you then fire the pistol three times into ceiling, yell, and then fire another three times to continue the Philu grammar pattern? And finally, when you repeated your threat the old revolver just went – Click.

Just jokin’ Philu. Good on you for kicking it all.
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May 14, 2010 11:37am
malcolm

But I have been saying for some time that it is atheists (presumably like yourself) who are starting these discussions.

Scott, Kris frequently instigates these discussions. To wit, see his ingenious and blatant comment on the Friday Photo today, shamelessly taking advantage of the small and native miromiro to steer the discussion onto intelligent design:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/05/friday_photo_14_may.html#comment-692704
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May 14, 2010 11:38am
Pauleastbay

Scott,

I think Sarah Palin is fabulous to, I would love the chance to commit all sorts of indecencies with her, but I am afraid she is staggeringly stupid and is doing huge damage to right wing politics. Obama could get another term if she doesn’t shut up.

Lets just keep the seperation of church and state, nothings perfect but you only have to look at the middle east.

Read a book ” Deer Hunting with Jesus” by Joe Bageant, who is about as far left as anything I’ve read and it is terrifying the simularities between the Islamists and the US Fundimentalists .i.e they are total nutters
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May 14, 2010 11:46am
lofty

@philu.. you go for it Phil, keep commenting, I even read your stuff from time to time, often I choose not to.

As I have posted before here, you are as entitled to your views as anyone else.

RIP is the way of muzzlers of free speech, in my opinion.

Disclaimer: Lofty is not a vegan or beneficiary, Lofty hardly ever agrees with Philu (but does sometimes), Lofty agrees with PhilU’s right to comment. Lofty believes in freedom.
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May 14, 2010 11:50am
Scott

Malcolm — I would agree, sometimes it is Kris who starts a religious topic on General Debate. However I have noticed that often it is not. Left right out just seems to be wanting to start a religious debate on this occasion at least and seems to be being deliberately provocative (which admittedly is not uncommon for him).

Paul East Bay — thank you for your comment, however I’m not sure I could bring myself to read a whole book by a far leftist. But suffice to say the idea of conflating United States fundamentalist Christians and Islamic Jihadists as one and the same, or having anything in common, is just patiently ridiculous in my humble opinion.

However if you think that when they discover a bomb in Times Square that they should immediately go to the local Baptist Church looking for suspects, well that’s up to you.
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May 14, 2010 12:02pm
Bevan

Gee phil, I just had a look at that thread – you should really tone down the level of racist rhetoric you were using.

Using racist terms is unacceptable, whether directed at whitey or darkie..
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May 14, 2010 12:04pm
Kris K

malcolm 11:38 am,

Scott, Kris frequently instigates these discussions. To wit, see his ingenious and blatant comment on the Friday Photo today, shamelessly taking advantage of the small and native miromiro to steer the discussion onto intelligent design:

I’m only “shameless” some of the time. 😉

And I’m surprised you didn’t ALSO point out that my 9:50 am comment here, where I linked Google collecting Wi-Fi information while doing Google maps street view photos, and drawing parallels to Big Brother, and thus by implication global governance, and therefore allusions to the Antichrist.

Sometimes I think some of you guys; yes that’s you Malcolm, are a little too precious.
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May 14, 2010 12:06pm
Viking2

Police delay ‘not justified’ in Navtaj Singh robbery: IPCA
16 urgent recommendations made
By MICHAEL FIELD – Stuff
Last updated 12:00 14/05/2010
SHOT DEAD: Navtej Singh, who was killed during a holdup at his Manurewa liquor store, in a portrait with his wife, Harjinder Kaur.

Police breached their duty to preserve life when South Auckland liquor store owner Navtaj Singh was fatally shot by robbers in 2008.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3697967/Police-delay-not-justified-in-Navtaj-Singh-robbery-IPCA
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May 14, 2010 12:07pm
Jack5

Philu has gone quiet. Must be out of fullstops again. Here you are Philu Stein. This might keep you going for the next hour:

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May 14, 2010 12:10pm
MT_Tinman

# Jack5 (1734) Says:
May 14th, 2010 at 11:17 am

Sadly the choice for many Christchurchers on the right, like me, will be Anderton or not voting at all.

Actually no, it won’t but the other choices are just as bad.

Withholding one’s vote is as important within a democratic system as voting itself as long as it is an informed decision.

Don’t vote unless you want the person to be mayor – simple as that really.
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May 14, 2010 12:11pm
Viking2

How to get noticed in the wide world out there.

Key’s ‘cannibalism joke’ picked up by global media
By Michael Dickison
11:19 AM Friday May 14, 2010

International media are having a ball with Prime Minister John Key’s Tuhoe “cannibalism joke” and his subsequent “passive-aggressive” apology.

CNN, the Guardian, the United States’ National Public Radio, Vanity Fair, the London Evening Standard, the Sydney Morning Herald and multiple international news wires have all picked up on the story, each adding a bit of their own humour.

Speaking at a tourism event in Auckland yesterday, Mr Key made a joke that “I would have been dinner” if he had dined with Tuhoe, after a dispute emerged this week over Treaty negotiations.

The remark has been criticised as badly timed and insensitive by Maori Party MP Te Ururoa Flavell.

“New Zealand’s Prime Minister was trying to crack a joke but some saw it in poor taste, no pun intended,” reported the Associated Press.

Click here for AP’s video coverage of the comments.
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The US NPR said Mr Key “has had to drop a cannibal joke from his humour repertoire”.

“Prime Minister John Key’s would-be knee slapper, told from the podium at a tourism conference, was that if he had visited with members of a Maori tribe whose ancestors were known for cannibalism, HE would have been dinner. You know, the other white meat.”

Vanity Fair, meanwhile, showcased Mr Key’s apology for the joke as a prime example of a “passive-aggressive” apology:

“Prefacing a statement of regret with the phrase ‘if anyone is offended’ is a cherished pan-cultural tradition of passive-aggression. Take, for instance, the incident in New Zealand earlier this week, when Prime Minister John Key upset Tuhoe tribe leaders by implying that they are cannibals.

“This tactful rhetorician is at once negating anyone’s ability to call him insensitive while simultaneously implying that the offended party is being way too sensitive.”

Other headlines include “New Zealand prime minister makes Maori cannibal gaffe”, “John Key offends Maori tribe by saying they might’have him for dinner’ after dispute over land”, and “PM’s cannibal joke’in poor taste”‘.

“New Zealand Prime Minister John Key found himself in hot water Thursday after joking about an indigenous tribe eating him for dinner,” said AFP, while CNN reported: “New Zealand Prime Minister John Key was facing heavy criticism Thursday after making a cannibalistic comment about a Maori tribe for the second time in a week.”
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May 14, 2010 12:16pm
Kris K

… and Malcolm,

I only very occasionally take “advantage of the small and native” creatures …

One of my many proclivities. 😉

[And I really do think you’re pulling my leg from the humour in your 11:38 am comment – well, partly anyway]
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May 14, 2010 12:16pm
malcolm

Scott, it’s true that these discussions are started by both ‘sides’. LRO is very deliberate. But what’s the problem? GD is a free-for-all thread and if there wasn’t an interest in these discussions they would die out. Yet they keep going. Which just demonstrates the enduring appeal of pointless spats about deeply held beliefs. 🙂

Sometimes I think some of you guys; yes that’s you Malcolm, are a little too precious.

Duly noted, Kris.
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May 14, 2010 12:20pm
Viking2

Ha you’ll love this.” Key is like the Aunties at a hui”

Key like aunties rushing hui to get to biscuits – Kruger
By Yvonne Tahana
11:00 AM Friday May 14, 2010

The half-baked humour surrounding the Tuhoe settlement negotiations continues today as Tamati Kruger likened John Key’s behaviour to that found at marae meetings.

Tuhoe are in limbo after the Prime Minister announced on Monday that ownership of Te Urewera National Park would not be acceptable to government.

Mr Kruger who is leading the negotiations with the Crown said the politics around ownership should never have surprised Mr Key. Not only did the tribe meet with him to discuss it but the PM is the also the chairman of the Cabinet Committee on Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations.

That’s the committee which vets proposals before it goes to a full cabinet meeting.

The last time the deal was put to the committee was in mid-March, he said.

“In that proposal is ownership [of Te Urewera] – what, you’re the chair and you’ve never heard of this before?

“We had our one go up twice and get the big tick.
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“Well, either he doesn’t read his minutes … some of my marae committee members are like that. You know, when I have a hapu hui some of my uncles and aunties don’t bother read the minutes they just tell me to hurry up so they can get to the biscuits and tea.

“Cabinet is not so different from a marae committee meeting.”

Yesterday, speaking at a tourism event in Auckland, Mr Key made a joke about enjoying a dinner at a Ngati Porou marae on the East Coast this week.

“The good news is that I was having dinner with Ngati Porou as opposed to their neighbouring iwi, which is Tuhoe, in which case I would have been dinner, which wouldn’t have been quite so attractive,” he said.

The politics of selling the deal to the public, hard on the heels of opening up conservation land for mining, the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and the Foreshore and Seabed consultation process has given some government ministers huge concerns about how it could affect National’s support.
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May 14, 2010 12:23pm
Pauleastbay

Scott

Youre right it wasn’t baptists in Times Square ( too much fun happening there for Baptists anyway), but sadly when there is a murder of a abortion clinic worker or the like, generally you head towards the nearest Church to make the arrest.

And I am not bullshitting you, the difference between the jihadists and the United States fundamentalist Christians is not very much at all and it is not ridiculous to compare them. Its called intolerance.

Bring yourself to expand your reading- I read alot here I dont agree with but I also learn a bit and have a few good laughs
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May 14, 2010 12:25pm
LeftRightOut

Funny how the god botherers want to drag god in to everything.

My post about Sarah Bjelke Palin was not about religion, it was about her stupidity, her general ignorance and her desire to make the past fit her beliefs. I cannot be blamed because Sarah Bjelke Palin expresses her stuipdity in her religious terms.

I would be as scathing of her if her stupidity was evident by her belief in crystals, homeopathy, chiropractic or any other form of woo.

But is does seem there is a striking correlation between religion and stupidity. Why is that?
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May 14, 2010 12:26pm
malcolm

Kris, I wouldn’t pull your leg. So don’t you go pulling the little miromiro’s leg either.
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May 14, 2010 12:29pm
Kris K

JiveKitty 9:55 am,

@Kris K: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWWQdhHPagE&feature=player_embedded You might find this interesting. (If the link doesn’t work, it’s been embedded here: http://drawthedivine.tumblr.com/post/588508765/this-illustrates-the-importance-of-starting-a )

Thanks for that, Jive.
And people wonder why I’m not keen on revealing my full name on KiwiBlog in light of some of my comments regarding Islam.

I do believe there will come a time in New Zealand when those who criticise Islam will put their personal health at risk – and perhaps that time isn’t too far away …
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May 14, 2010 12:30pm
Kris K

malcolm 12:29 pm,

Kris, I wouldn’t pull your leg. So don’t you go pulling the little miromiro’s leg either.

Your concern for the little Miromiro’s leg is duly noted, Malcolm.
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May 14, 2010 12:36pm
Repton

If you don’t want Google or others getting basic info on your wifi, don’t leave SSID Broadcast on. Simple.

If I’m right, and Google are doing this to support location services, then they’re more likely to be interested in the MAC address of your access point, rather than the SSID. In which case, disabling SSID broadcast won’t help at all (I think).
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May 14, 2010 12:43pm
Muzza M

Never thought I would say this but Trotter has written a good editorial in todays Dom
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May 14, 2010 12:44pm
malcolm

Repton, I was under the impression (could be wrong) that unless the SSID is broadcast, then an outside party cannot distinguish your wifi from your wireless phone, garage door opener etc.
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May 14, 2010 12:47pm
jinpy

RightNow,

Awesome link posted — quite fascinating, there’s a lot of information of concern there regarding heat island effects biasing land temperature records. But while it does cast doubt on the accuracy of a particular station and its recent record of warming it wasnt definitive in proving the opposite, an important distinction. Did you read that post and its comments!! There was so much information but so little conclusive answers that it’s impossible to draw a conclusion, i.e.
– the station may have moved from the place discussed
– the weighting of the airport station may not have made a difference given that other stations at different locations might be showing similar results
– the satellite and land based recordings are not expected to show the same rate of warming (red herring)
– no discussion of ocean temperatures in the area

I put the blame on the scientists, everything should be laid out and made clear and mistakes acknowledged. However, while there is some subconscious bias in any researcher, scientists are not stupid. If they have taken measurements showing the heat island effect, chances are they have taken it into account. Maybe they just live with it figuring that this is an inevitable cause of global warming on top of other potential causes, maybe they use it as a station to precisely measure the heat island effect…?

There are many questions, and I am picking you do not know the answers, so while I agree with any criticism of lack of transparency, questionable data integrity, and bias, this does not provide proof for the opposite scenario– that climate change is not real at all. Or, am I misjudging you, do you have omnipotent knowledge of the universe and the future…?
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May 14, 2010 12:53pm
krazykiwi

Krazykiwi, the difference is that you retain control of your privacy with wifi. If you don’t want people to see your network, then don’t SSID broadcast.

malcolm, would you be happy to have the police photograph you in your home without your knowledge and then publish this photograph and your address details on a publicly accessible website? I’m assuming ‘No’

So would you be happy for Google to sniff your home WiFi details without your knowledge and then publish this infromation and your address on publicly accesible website? I’m assuming ‘Yes’

So I’m confused. Suggesting I switch my SSID broadcast off is like asking me to wear a mask and disguise around home if I don’t want the police to get their photo
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May 14, 2010 12:59pm
Repton

Me:

If I’m right, and Google are doing this to support location services,

Turns out I should read the article before commenting, because it says that this is exactly what it’s for.

Information collected included the names and unique numbers associated with residents’ wireless networks. The data, which is publicly available, was used to give precise readings of people’s locations if they were using Google’s mobile map services.

Malcolm:

Repton, I was under the impression (could be wrong) that unless the SSID is broadcast, then an outside party cannot distinguish your wifi from your wireless phone, garage door opener etc.

Well, OK, I’m not a network engineer or any such, so I don’t really know what I’m talking about.

But I’m pretty certain that disabling SSID broadcast doesn’t suddenly make a wireless network look not like a wireless network. You might like to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSID#Security_of_Broadcasting_SSID

Basically, as I understand it, to connect to a typical secure wireless network, you need two things: the SSID, and the password. Security comes from keeping the password secret. Keep the SSID secret too? You haven’t actually increased your security, unless your password is easily guessable from the SSID.

But the access point still needs to look like an access point. Else how could computers connect to it? The “unique number” mentioned in the quote above is probably the MAC address, and you can’t keep it secret because it’s how your computer talks to the AP. It’s also [effectively] globally unique, unlike the SSID, which makes it much more useful for Google’s purposes.

The only way you can keep it secret is if you line your house with tinfoil (or something) so that your signal doesn’t leak.
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May 14, 2010 1:06pm
malcolm

Reption, thanks, yeah I’m just talking off the top of my head as well. The SSID has nothing to do with security for sure and most people have it enabled. Having said that it only provides the smallest of convenience (allows you to see that the base-station is working, and saves you typing the network name in as you type in the WEP key etc).

The point is that Google are not doing any hacking or similar – they’re just collecting information which you’ve chosen to broadcast. First by plugging a wireless router into your network and second by having SSID broadcast enabled. Whether or not Google are impinging on your privacy or not is more complicated and I’m confused about that..
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May 14, 2010 1:18pm
malcolm

Krazykiwi, the more I think about this the more confused I become.

would you be happy to have the police photograph you in your home without your knowledge and then publish this photograph and your address details on a publicly accessible website?

No, but this is the problem with analogies. They never quite fit. I think the ForSale sign on the front lawn is a better analogy because I decide to put it there. In your analogy I have no control, which isn’t the case with wifi.

So would you be happy for Google to sniff your home WiFi details without your knowledge and then publish this infromation and your address on publicly accesible website?

I don’t mind. I’m not saying that there is no potential problem, but I can’t think of one. And I have control over my wifi network and they are only noting it’s presence. Is it any different from driving around and noting that I have a house and therefore you can send junk mail to me?

So I’m confused. Suggesting I switch my SSID broadcast off is like asking me to wear a mask and disguise around home if I don’t want the police to get their photo

I would say it’s more akin to saying don’t put a ForSale sign on your lawn if you don’t want people reading about your house from the road.

But I’m very confused on this. I do think that if you put information out for the public to see, you can’t claim that someone is impinging on your privacy if they use that information. In the same way that you don’t have an expectation on privacy in public, i.e. if you walk around in public with no clothes on you can’t accuse people of invading your privacy by looking at you.
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May 14, 2010 1:31pm
krazykiwi

Different topic: Obamacare. ‘Sold’ to the population as costing “less than $US900b over 10 years”. The opponents claimed that this was far too low, and that cost estimate would start to blow out as soon as the bill was passed. So guess what …

Congressional Budget Office estimates released Tuesday predict the health care overhaul will likely cost about $115 billion more in discretionary spending over ten years than the original cost projections.

The additional spending — if approved over the years by Congress — would bring the total estimated cost of the overhaul to about $1 trillion.

I guess they knew this.. but selling a $US1.15trillion package must have been a bit daunting. Never let the truth get in the way of an agenda.
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May 14, 2010 1:36pm
Repton

The point is that Google are not doing any hacking or similar – they’re just collecting information which you’ve chosen to broadcast. First by plugging a wireless router into your network and second by having SSID broadcast enabled. Whether or not Google are impinging on your privacy or not is more complicated and I’m confused about that..

Well, the basic issue is that the world is changing.

You drew an analogy with putting a “for sale” sign on your lawn and people coming and writing the details down. But that’s not right, because people don’t have a “for sale” sign up for years at a time (well, except this one section near where I live..).

Maybe I could say that it’s like you’ve got a huge window on the front of your house, and you can’t ever cover it with curtains, and people are taking photos through it from the street. Except the only thing visible through the window is this piece of abstract art you bought once.

Y’know? Analogies break down because the situation we’re in is new. And because databases can make people think their privacy has been violated, when nothing has really changed — for instance, imagine Google streetview, but the results were printed in a series of books and stored in a public library in Seattle. And imagine the Google camera caught you walking out of a strip club with your face clearly visible. Would you feel your privacy has been violated? Probably not — someone who knows you would have to travel to Seattle, find the library, browse through the (many, many) books, and then happen across your photo. The information is all public, but the difficulty of access made the privacy risks lower.

So … the meaning of privacy is changing these days. Who knows what it will end up like?
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May 14, 2010 1:37pm
RichardX

Kris,
While you are talking about your view of Islam, (your 12.30 comment) do these students,
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/speaking-up-young-muslims-take-on-the-extremists-1971694.html fit your view of Islam?

Or are they lulling the rest of Britain into a false sense of security?

Or are they just not ‘true muslims’ in the same way christians who don’t agree with you completely are not ‘true christians’?
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May 14, 2010 1:40pm
MikeNZ

LeftRightOut (536) Says:
May 14th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

Are you seriously suggesting that those who don’t believe are stupid?
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May 14, 2010 1:44pm
malcolm

..it’s like you’ve got a huge window on the front of your house, and you can’t ever cover it with curtains, and people are taking photos through it from the street. Except the only thing visible through the window is this piece of abstract art…

Nah, that’s a weak analogy. Lots of people don’t have any art at all. It’s more like a small window, but the inside of the window is covered with opaque cardboard, but on the outside face you have written your street number, in big letters using fade-resistant ink. And you leave it there for years and years. And you’ve got no other windows in your house, except a skylight which is only visible from space.. by satellite….
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May 14, 2010 1:44pm
Ryan Sproull

But is does seem there is a striking correlation between religion and stupidity. Why is that?

Because there is a striking correlation between stupidity and believing whatever most people around you believe.

In a society where atheism was default, religious people would more likely be people who have had the intelligence to question the received truths of the society around them.
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May 14, 2010 1:48pm
MikeNZ

Read a book ” Deer Hunting with Jesus” by Joe Bageant, who is about as far left as anything I’ve read

Paula
I found it illuminating in that it illustrated the poor whites working two and three jobs so as to not be a burden on anyone and suffering degradation of lifestyle over generations, whereas immigrants take advantage of all they can in benefits to upskill and move out and up.
Meanwhile the moneyed class screw the poor whites as they wheel and deal around them both taking their money and advantage of them.
That an outsider can come in and look with fresh eyes to portray was brilliant. Of course he wasn’t truely an outsider in that originally he was one of them but he got educated and reprogrammed his mind when he moved away.
A fascinating book and I recommend it to everyone to read.
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May 14, 2010 1:51pm
MikeNZ

Scott (610) Says:
May 14th, 2010 at 11:26 am

Left right out — I think Sarah Palin is fabulous.
We note that it is you trying to hijack this thread to become a religious discussion. People moan about the Christians making General Debate always about religious issues. But I have been saying for some time that it is atheists (presumably like yourself) who are starting these discussions.

You tell them Scott – way to go
She is lovely and her man’s not too bad either 🙂
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May 14, 2010 1:55pm
Scott

Thank you Left Right out — I understand that you believe that religious people are stupid. And atheists are smart. Got that point. You Left Right out are intelligent and me and Kris and Fletch are blithering idiots.

On the other hand one correlation I have noted is the one between atheists and astonishing levels of arrogance up to and including hubris.

Paul East Bay — there have been a handful, a very small handful of attacks on abortionists. The media do the best they can to call these people “born-again Christians” but generally they are lunatics of the far right who are more likely to be members of some militia rather than any Bible believing church.

I don’t understand your comment on intolerance. In my experience, it is Liberals that are incredibly intolerant of anyone that is not Liberal. Ample evidence for this assertion is available on this blog.

However once again, the idea that suicide bombers waging war against the West in the name of Islam have a striking similarity to churchgoing Bible believing Christians who quietly go about their business, who raise their families, hold down jobs and go to church on Sundays, is just plain ridiculous.
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May 14, 2010 2:04pm
krazykiwi

I completely agree with Scott
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May 14, 2010 2:59pm
RKBee

Isn’t it great that there are still some New Zealanders willing to claim New Zealand back for New Zealanders.
Now they just have to convince the rest of us to give it to them.
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May 14, 2010 3:01pm
Ryan Sproull

It’s been many years since any Christians carried out abortion-clinic bombings. People have an exaggerated notion of their frequency.
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May 14, 2010 3:05pm
cha

there have been a handful, a very small handful of attacks on abortionists.

More than a very small handful Scott. The period 1997/2009 saw in excess of 70 incidents of extreme violence reported to or obtained by NAF.
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May 14, 2010 3:12pm
Ryan Sproull

cha,

In that link, what is “acid” as a type of attack?

EDIT: Never mind. Found out myself. It’s not being thrown in people’s faces. It makes places smell bad.
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May 14, 2010 3:14pm
LeftRightOut

Scott (611) Says:

May 14th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

I don’t understand your comment on intolerance. In my experience, it is Liberals that are incredibly intolerant of anyone that is not Liberal. Ample evidence for this assertion is available on this blog.

So you believe redbaiter, dad4justice, bigbruv, Kris K, MikeNZ, krazykiwi, et al are all Liberals? WOW! They would have to be the least tollerant and most abusive of posters here.
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May 14, 2010 3:15pm
Ryan Sproull

LRO,

Some of the people you listed there are no more abusive than the norm on Kiwiblog. Kris in particular springs to mind. And Mike as a general rule.
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May 14, 2010 3:17pm
LeftRightOut

Scott (611) Says:

May 14th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Thank you Left Right out — I understand that you believe that religious people are stupid. And atheists are smart. Got that point. You Left Right out are intelligent and me and Kris and Fletch are blithering idiots.

Well, Scott, what would you call people who ignore evidence and discovery when it conflicts with their religion? I think “blithering idiot” sums it up quite well.
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May 14, 2010 3:19pm
malcolm

So you believe redbaiter, dad4justice, bigbruv, Kris K, MikeNZ, krazykiwi, et al are all Liberals? WOW! They would have to be the least tollerant and most abusive of posters here.

Rubbish. Redbaiter is abusive, but that’s just his way of showing he cares. Dad4justice is just learning the english language and the rest are pretty decent.
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May 14, 2010 3:23pm
cha

654 Anthrax Threat Letters.

60 Butyric Acid Attacks.

200+ Arsons and Bombings.

11 Murders and Shootings.
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May 14, 2010 3:34pm
Scott

Cha — thanks for clearing up my confusion with those statistics. Your first post had 70 acts of extreme violence between 1997 and 2009, a period of 13 years. I thought that was 70 murders in those 13 years.

Although I don’t approve of any violence against abortion clinics or abortion providers, I don’t think we are seeing a crime wave perpetrated by fundamentalist Christians here.
Taking the 70 and dividing by 13 equals about 5 acts of extreme violence per year. Again this is too many, but given the high number of abortion clinics in the United States and that they collectively abort about 800,000 unborn infants a year, I would like to suggest there is a problem on both sides of the argument.

Don’t forget it is highly contestable to say those eight murders were done by fundamentalist Christians. Again my argument is that the perpetrators were more likely to be mentally unbalanced members of far right militia than members of any Bible believing church.

However there were 70 acts of extreme violence, and of those 70 acts there were eight murders. Now again that is eight murders too many. However the score is abortionists — 12 million (total abortions performed during that period), anti — abortionists 8 (murders during that period).

I think a score of 12,000,000 to 8 says something. Like maybe all of the violence is not just on one side? And I’m not sure that it is the fundamentalist Christians who are most at fault here?
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May 14, 2010 3:58pm
Kris K

RichardX 1:40 pm,

Kris,
While you are talking about your view of Islam, (your 12.30 comment) do these students,
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/speaking-up-young-muslims-take-on-the-extremists-1971694.html fit your view of Islam?

Or are they lulling the rest of Britain into a false sense of security?

Or are they just not ‘true muslims’ in the same way christians who don’t agree with you completely are not ‘true christians’?

While I’m sure some Muslims may be peaceful, and that they might not support so called Muslim extremists, in reality they are going against the teachings of both the Koran and the Hadith. And were they in a Muslim country and voiced strong opposition to Islamic acts of terror they would, almost assuredly, be labelled as apostate and would likely pay with their lives.

Did you actually listen to the video I linked to in my 12:30 comment?
Here’s the link again:
http://drawthedivine.tumblr.com/post/588508765/this-illustrates-the-importance-of-starting-a

And here’s a transcript I made up from the same video, from about 3 minutes in, to about the 4 and a half minutes mark – the interview is with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an ex-Muslim:

I grew up as a Muslim, and growing up as a Muslim I learned you don’t criticise Allah, the Koran, or the Prophet Mohammed and you should participate in condemning, and eventually killing anybody who does. So that is just what the religion tells us; that’s what Scripture tells us – there are some people who want to act on it, and there are some people who don’t. The majority of Muslims do not want to act on the Scripture, but they are silent when fellow Muslims do.

And you don’t see death threats from Jews when Moses is depicted in an unbecoming position, and you don’t see threats from Christians when Jesus Christ is put in a satire position … the South Park episode of last weekend … it wasn’t just witty, but it addressed an essential piece … in the times that we are living there is one group of people, one religion [Islam] that is claiming to be above criticism. And I hope that in the aftermath of this that we discuss that.
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May 14, 2010 4:20pm
Pauleastbay

Scott

Intolerance – indisposition to tolerate contrary opinions or beliefs. Bigoted

America never has been a non-secular entity.

…the framers of the constitution overthrew 150 years of colonial theocracies and theocratic wannabees. And when it was accomplished, Benjamin Franklin said, “You have a republic, if you can keep it.

Also call me old fashioned but the fundalmentalists awaiting “The Rapture ” sure sound similar to ” 50 virgins waiting my arrival” of the jihadists.

Lunatics flew into the World Trade centre, Lunatics murder doctors going to work
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