General Debate 11 May 2010

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grumpyoldhori

You idle buggers, still in the scratcher at 9am 🙂
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May 11, 2010 9:20am
Chicken Little

Last night the Maori Party co-leader, Tariana Turia, said: “As a Maori Party leader I’m tired of the politics of race being brought into the equation – this is an issue of leadership and justice.

Quote of the fu*ken century from Nationals partner in government
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May 11, 2010 9:22am
big bruv

I see the thirteen year old piece of shit who stabbed the teacher will not face any charges because of his age, if ever we need a reason to change the age of criminal responsibility this is it.

No doubt Rex and the rest of the criminal cuddlers will rush here and tell me how wrong I am, however, we simply cannot keep sending messages to our kids that their actions have no consequences.

Bring back discipline in our schools, bring back consequences, and drop the age of criminal responsibility for all crimes.
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May 11, 2010 9:23am
philu

brown has gone…the lib-dems will now go with labour..

..prop-rep soon..

..and the tories frozen out of power forever…their hegemony at an end..

joy..!…joy..!…joy…!

eh..?

(and as one from (working-class) irish/scots/welsh background..

i must say this demise of the tories..is leavened with historical schaedenfreude..eh,..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 9:24am
Inventory2

Neh Phil – remember Winston Peters circa 1996? That’s what Clegg is doing; playing Labour and the Tories off against each other.
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May 11, 2010 9:27am
PaulL

Phil, take off the rose tinted goggles. Labour + Lib have about as many seats as the Conservatives have on their own. It isn’t enough to form a government. Conservative + Lib is enough to govern, Conservative + random others has as much chance of success as Labour + Lib + random others. Obviously maths isn’t your strong suit.
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May 11, 2010 9:35am
philu

inv..no he isn’t…he’s going for the magic-ring of prop-rep…nothing less will do…

..in fact…anything less wd see his supporters falling on him..and tearing him apart…

and..paul…

they have the numbers…

and really…

35% of brits want a tory govt….

far more want a progressive govt…

it’s called democracy…

and it wd seem that ‘maths is not your strong suit’…

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 9:41am
philu

heh..!..a tory was just on nat-rad…spewing/spitting tacks about ‘a rainbow..coalition..even including the greens..!’

..”’it won’t last..!’..he fulminated..

heh..heh…!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 9:50am
philu

i know it’s been said before…but..’a week is a long time in politics’…eh…?

and i don’t want to rub salt into the wounds…(i lie..!..i have salt-shaker in hand..!..)

but does this mean that key/our tory govt…

..are the only conservatives..adrift in a sea of progressivism…?

..and..for the forseeable future..?

seven years ..(at least).. in america….

..and forever in britain..?

whoar..!

“holy ideological lonely-boys!…batman..!”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 9:57am
Inventory2

To change the subject, it seems as though the Herald has declared war on Mark Hotchin – good show too, we say!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/05/message-to-hotchin.html
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May 11, 2010 10:03am
big bruv

Ever noticed that the pinko’s who love calling this place the sewer just cannot keep away?
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May 11, 2010 10:10am
Murray

Oh goody look a pre-fucked thread.

You can fuck off to Scotland now phool where they wont make you get off your parasitic ass. seeyoubye.
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May 11, 2010 10:13am
philu

i understand that you are all feeling a little grim…

..’gutted’..?..even..?

i mean..you have all had this ‘new tory’ govt in britain…as one of yr ‘certainties’…for so long..

..eh..?

it must ache…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 10:17am
PaulL

You’re reading a lot into one election Phil. Another way to look at it is that 65% of Britons didn’t want a Labour Prime Minister. Or you could come up with any other meaningless statistic. About the only things you could usefully determine from the election is that:
– the British electoral system is broken. FPP isn’t a good system, and it’s even worse when it delivers a hung parliament – you end up with all the disadvantages of a proportional system without any of the benefits
– the bits of the UK that are net contributors to the public finances voted Conservative. The bits that were given their own parliaments still insist on foisting their bludging ways on the rest of the country. The sooner Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are told to go make their own way in the world, the better
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May 11, 2010 10:26am
philu

and to just change the subject…(help you thru yr grief..eh..?..distance..and denial..shd be used first..eh..?..)

another long-term prediction of mine has been that obama is playing ‘a long game’…

..and part of that ;long game’..over the next seven years…will be the ..to a large degree..a dismantling of the military-industrial complex in america…

..(he will use the economic/environmental-imperatives to justify both chopping the defence budget…and converting parts of the military to civil-defence/re-building/’greening’ the american civil infrastructure…..)

(i mean..taking a macro/global-view..americas’ worst enemy…is (self-serving) factions within america..eh..?

and so…i am cheered to see the first signs of this happening/coming to pass…

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/robert-gates-says-urgent-need-for-big-cuts-at-defense-department/

“…Warring against waste, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Saturday he is ordering a top-to-bottom paring of the military bureaucracy …

… in search of at least $10 billion in annual savings … needed to prevent an erosion of U.S. combat power.

He took aim at what he called a bloated bureaucracy, wasteful business practices and too many generals and admirals …

… and outlined an ambitious plan for reform that’s almost certain to stir opposition in the corridors of Congress and Pentagon.

“The Defense Department must take a hard look at every aspect of how it is organized, staffed and operated –

– indeed, every aspect of how it does business,” he said in a speech at the Eisenhower Presidential Library and Museum in the former commander in chief’s home town.

Gates, also a Kansas native, addressed a crowd of about 300 from the steps of the library at a ceremony marking the 65th anniversary of Nazi Germany’s surrender in World War II.

The library was a fitting setting for Gates to caution against unrestrained military spending.

In his farewell address to the nation from the Oval Office in January 1961, President Dwight D. Eisenhower famously warned of …

… the “grave implications” of having built during that war an enormous military establishment …

… and a huge arms industry … that could wield undue influence in American society.

“Eisenhower was wary of seeing his beloved republic turn into a muscle-bound, garrison state – militarily strong but economically stagnant and strategically insolvent,” Gates said.

He recalled Eisenhower’s impatience with a mindset within the military that often sought to add new weaponry without regard for cost or efficiency –

– “pile program on program,” as he once put it.

Gates said he had recently come to the conclusion about the urgent need for big cuts in light of the recession …

… and the likelihood that Congress no longer will give the Pentagon the sizable budget increases it has enjoyed since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

“The gusher has been turned off … and will stay off for a good period of time,” he said.

In earlier remarks to reporters, Gates said it was clear that defense budgets …

… will be tight “for as far into the future as anyone can see.”…”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 10:35am
philu

“..You’re reading a lot into one election Phil..”

indeed..!..’watershed’ is almost an understatement…

how can it not be..?

i mean..can’t you see that…?

that the tory stranglehold on british life…..is over…

..and all in the space of a week…eh

…we/you have had the rollercoaster ride of camerons’missus measuring up the curtains at 10 downing st…and ‘happy days are here again’…

..to remaining in opposition…and prop-rep ensuring they will be there..forever..?

..and a/the new green mp..going to be part of the new govt..

(how ‘cool!’ is that..?..eh..?)

there is ‘quite a lot’..to ‘read into this election’..

..eh..?

only the blind wouldn’t see that…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 10:42am
Inventory2

Phil – in case you hadn’t noticed, the Tories haven’t had a “stranglehold” on Britain for 13 years. It’s UK Labour which has taken the “Great” out of Britain.
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May 11, 2010 10:47am
Manolo

The nutter Nick Smith mocked and ridiculed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Z4U31p3lk&feature=player_embedded#!

Hat Tip: Whale Oil
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May 11, 2010 10:47am
side show bob

I see the president of the teachers union on the tele this morning moaning about the ill discipline of today’s children. Silly woman really needs to look at herself and her many liberal loving teachers. These people were some of the most vocal against corporal punishment and the repel of section 59. Most teachers have being brainwashed by the lefty academic tossers at uni and now struggle to understand why it’s all going pear shape. They now want the government to do something about the violence at schools, fucking two bobs, does reap what you sow have any meaning to these people.
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May 11, 2010 10:47am
curia pigeon

heh – i see our David’s gunning for a conservative minority government in the UK much as we had here in 1993 when lab + alliance got over 50% and the Nats governed with 33%. Tories are the natural enimies of democracy the world over.
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May 11, 2010 10:54am
pentwig

phool

My parrot makes more intelligent sense than you do.

I am convinced that my parrot understands politics better than you do.

He is even vegan. However he does not have a drug addled brain.

“fool, fool, fool” Hear that phool. I do not know if he is scolding me for encouraging your trolling or letting me know that he thinks you are the phool.
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May 11, 2010 10:57am
philu

i think it’s more likely the parrot is talking directly to you…eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 11:00am
philu

and inv 2..i am taking a much longer look back than 11 years…

..i am talking aboutthe history of class-warfare..

..of the upper-classes/tories having had their boots on everyone elses’ throats…for way too long…

..and prop-rep will ensure those days are gone..

(see the tories ‘freeze’..!..’freeze tories..!..freeze..!’..)

phil((whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 11:05am
Chthoniid

@Inventory2

To change the subject, it seems as though the Herald has declared war on Mark Hotchin – good show too, we say!

Tally-ho!
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May 11, 2010 11:06am
Andrew W

I think you’re probably right about where politics is heading Phil, Cactus Kate looks at the consequences.

http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/2010/05/poorly-hung-parliaments.html
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May 11, 2010 11:09am
side show bob

Manolo, great video, every member of the National socialists should have a copy and perhaps a link be posted on frog blog and the standard, it wouldn’t go amiss. I doubt it would stay up for long as we all know they despise the truth.
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May 11, 2010 11:09am
Kris K

side show bob 10:47 am,

I see the president of the teachers union on the tele this morning moaning about the ill discipline of today’s children. Silly woman really needs to look at herself and her many liberal loving teachers. These people were some of the most vocal against corporal punishment and the repel of section 59. Most teachers have being brainwashed by the lefty academic tossers at uni and now struggle to understand why it’s all going pear shape. They now want the government to do something about the violence at schools, fucking two bobs, does reap what you sow have any meaning to these people.

Indeed, Bob.
I wonder if these lying socialist ideologues, or the stupid sheep that just mind-numbingly follow behind, see the irony of the situation? They help create this mess by removing corporal punishment, and then have the audacity to complain at the results of their handiwork; the fact that they have to deal with unruly and ill-disciplined kids.

I wonder if they see the connection with 13 year olds either drinking themselves to death (see my comment on the “Again why a drinking age not purchase age is needed” thread), or stabbing their teachers? When are we going to WAKE UP and realise that we need to bring back corporal punishment? – both in schools and the home.
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May 11, 2010 11:11am
tom hunter

I must admit that I’m laughing my ass off about the Conservative failure in the UK. For several years now numerous lefties on this forum have crowed about the need for righties to look to the likes of Cameron for lessons on how right-wing parties can win power. As just one example I recall that his whole attitude about AGW was recommended as one we should take on board.

I always thought the whole approach was a load of me-too crap that would ultimately fail, even if it meant an electoral success – and so far Cameron and co. have not got even that much.

Given that any democracy ultimately does boil down to what ‘the people’ want, I think that most recent elections in the West have told us that the people want to have their cake and eat it too.

Whether it’s the British, the Greeks, or ultimately the Yanks, governments are going to have start some serious gutting of social welfare systems that have devolved from being about poor people to being middle-class entitlements – and everybody knows that – and nobody wants to do it.

This is where it gets back to who is in government – it does not matter. If the people are going to be that stubbornly stupid then that’s fine by me. Nothing like watching left-wing progressives forced to burn down the institutions they’ve so lovingly built up over decades.

Better yet, I doubt they’ll be able to bring themselves to do that – but if right-wing parties won’t commit intellectually and therefore fail to act when in power (e.g. Key), or do get bold and then find themselves rejected by the electorate – it does not matter. These systems have built-in terminator genes in most countries.

Just for a laugh you should take a look at the NYT’s recommendations to Greece. I know it’s the business section but the irony is still so thick you could cut it with a knife.
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May 11, 2010 11:26am
eszett

I wonder if these lying socialist ideologues, or the stupid sheep that just mind-numbingly follow behind, see the irony of the situation? They help create this mess by removing corporal punishment, and then have the audacity to complain at the results of their handiwork; the fact that they have to deal with unruly and ill-disciplined kids.

I wonder if backward christian conservative ideologues or stupid, mindless bible readers ever see the irony of solving violence with more violence.

Just how much violence did that 13 year old have in his life to be able to go and stab someone with impunity? Don’t you think he had to be beaten and disciplined before arriving at that stage?

And how would corporate punishment at school would have prevented that? Clearly someone has to be very prone to violence to stab someone like that, he certainly wont respect corporal punishment at school.

You just bring up your tired old rhetoric again and again. How sad are you that you don’t have any other solutions than corporal punishment?
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May 11, 2010 11:44am
nickb

Yes eszett, because all Kris K, SSB want is the right to thrash, maim, and mutilate their children given back….. yawn
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May 11, 2010 11:59am
malcolm

Re: stabbing. Allow schools to permanently expel any pupil for any behaviour reason. No questions asked. Pure autonomy to set standards for student behaviour and no second guessing by other bodies nor anyone bleating about human rights.

E.g, school has a problem with kids bringing weapons to school. New rule; anyone caught with a weapon at school will be expelled.

You can’t have schools as a catch-all for all the crap in society and then blame them for not magically turning these kids into perfect people, when their parents clearly have not. Make school aspirational – a place where you need to rise to an expected standard of civilised behaviour. Most people can manage it.

Next problem.
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May 11, 2010 12:03pm
Scott

Eszett — just going to blog on that very issue. Isn’t it amazing that is all the fault of the Christians and the Conservatives for what is happening in our schools? That almost appears to be the line that you are taking.

Here is my take on it. We made a mistake getting rid of corporal punishment. Now we are reaping what we sowed. The children are out of control, even up to getting out knives and stabbing the teacher! The kids have no fear of the teacher, no respect for the teacher and are out of control.

What to do? If Eszett has a positive solution, marinated no doubt out of his atheism, he should let us know.

For my part I would suggest that bringing in corporal punishment would be a good start.

Also I think there are some positive programs using community resources to help schools, which I think could be adopted more widely. For example I know some churches provide breakfast for children before school. Apparently this makes a big difference as the kids are well fed, they have had some positive interaction with the volunteers that bring in the food, and they are in a good frame of mind to start the school day.

So those are two suggestions that I think would make a positive difference to our schools.
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May 11, 2010 12:16pm
grumpyoldhori

PaulL it seems the Tories have some problems with maths.
Now if another election is called there is nothing to stop Labour and the Lib Dem from voting in a tactical way to get either a Labour or a Lib Dem win in the marginal seats.
The Tories have a problem in that their total votes is well under that of Labour and the Lib Dem combined.
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May 11, 2010 12:26pm
Michaels

On a far brighter note……….

Happy 49th Michaels
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May 11, 2010 12:28pm
philu

isn’ t this the person who key was war-wowed by..?

and who he pledged our troops to ‘follow’..for the forseeable future..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/pentagon-doubts-grow-on-mcchrystal-war-plan/

“…Although Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal’s plan for wresting the Afghan provinces of Helmand and Kandahar from the Taliban is still in its early stages of implementation …

… there are already signs that setbacks and obstacles it has encountered have raised serious doubts among top military officials in Washington …

… about whether the plan is going to work.

Scepticism about McChrystal’s ambitious aims was implicit in the way the Pentagon report on the war issued Apr. 26 assessed the progress of the campaign in Marja.

Now, it has been given even more pointed expression by an unnamed “senior military official” quoted in a column in the Washington Post Sunday by David Ignatius.

The senior military officer criticised McChrystal’s announcement in February that he had “a government in a box, ready to roll in” for the Marja campaign…

… for having created “an expectation of rapidity and efficiency that doesn’t exist now”, according to Ignatius.

The same military official is also quoted as pointing out that parts of Helmand that were supposed to have been cleared by the offensive in February and March …

… are in fact still under Taliban control …

… and that Afghan government performance in the wake of the offensive had been disappointing, according to Ignatius.

The outlook at the Pentagon and the White House on the nascent Kandahar offensive is also pessimistic…”

gee..!..eh..?

maybe key should have been spoken to..’dazzled’..by some of these doubters…eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 12:58pm
side show bob

You’re fucking full of it Eszett, you go and teach with your “I’m lefty soft cock” approach and see how far it gets you. I’m not saying children should be beaten and maimed you fool. I’m just trying to say that liberal tossers like your good self have given children rights but they are to suffer no consequences because of their actions. Perhaps if this piece of shit had been pulled up earlier we would not be looking a today’s tragedy. You then go on about the violence this lad must have suffered to do something like this. Why, I thought you lefty grippers had outlawed violence against children. Didn’t you bastards claim that the repel of section 59 would save the children. When will you dickheads admit that you got it wrong, all wrong.
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May 11, 2010 1:35pm
MikeNZ

happy birthday
Michaels
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May 11, 2010 1:44pm
Jack5

I’m really sorry about this, truly sorry. Please forgive me for bringing up this new topic. Yep, sorry again.

Apologies that we all need to make, and now, and sincerely:

To all left handed folk in the world for not having left-hand favouring controls on everything from the mundane to computer keyboards to airline cockpits.

To those folk who came to NZ from countries that drive on the right side of the road. We just haven’t provided parallel roads for you.

To all those children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of NZ soldiers who survived but just didn’t get the counselling from the do-gooder teams that these enlightened days are available at the drop of a hat. We are truly sorry that earlier Governments neglected to organise teams of huggers for your dads, grandads, and great-granddads.

To all folk who would prefer to read English from right to left, and have been stuck with left-to-right since the beginning.

To the descendants of all who were laughed at for thinking the world was flat, when we now know it is a little, well flattish, at the poles.

To descendants and relatives of dead smokers for not having eradicated the tobacco habit earlier.

To all of folk who were happily raised as adopted children, from the days before abortion was legalised and then blossomed into a new type of birth control. We now know we (society) wuz wrong to discriminate by letting you live when you were a foetus.

To descendants and relatives of criminals executed when capital punishment was the rule for murder. (Thanks to Stephen Franks on Jim Mora’s RNZ show for this one).

To all sportsmen and sportswomen whose teams we booed when we were over-enthustically supporting our own teams.

To all short people shut out of basketball because of that sport’s discrimination in favour of tall players.

To all the atheists we used to think were overconfident know-alls, when we now know they have got everything sussed. We are sorry it’s now so boring to be an against-the-tide atheist, because so many people now agree with you. It’s hard for you to get a scrap any more. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

To all descendants of slaves. And that’s just about everyone in the world, because you can quite easily see that everyone must have at least one slave in their family tree over 100,000 years.

To all descendants of cannibals. Similarly, go back far enough and you can bet there’s a cannibal or three in the family tree.

To Helen Clark and her H-team. Sorry for the things we said. Now she’s gone, it’s clear she was just a passing mirage. Sorry we overestimated her.

To everyone whose already had a public apology for having had to wait so long until we were in our self-flagellation orgy.
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May 11, 2010 1:45pm
MikeNZ

right now Jack5 has got that done for us all.

Lets move on to repealing the Waitangi laws and all the raft of other racist supporting one group laws and regulations.
Just like the Labour/Greens did with removing Mother/Father, Wife/Husband from 100 laws with their homosexual friendly law changes.
I propose National (we’ve got more balls than Helen) change all the Maori, Iwi, Hapu and similar words to local New Zealanders if they won’t scrap the laws in their entirety.

While we’re at it let’s change those 100 laws The Labour/Greens changed for LGBT back to husband/wife, Father and Mother too.
I apologise to all LBGT for any and every insult, grief and discrimination (spoken and thought) you have ever and will ever receive because you only make up less than 1-2% of the population and most people find your lifestyle choice different or queer.

I realise that as a white middle aged traditional family man I can never understand what it feels like to be discriminated against but I quite like the term “my wife, your Husband” as I do being a father and seeing kids with their mothers and fathers as opposed to their caregivers and their partners.

So thank you jack5.
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May 11, 2010 2:01pm
curia pigeon

jack – you forgot to appologise to all the horribly oppressed and discontented wealthy white males who live comfortably and according to their own whims, but cannot control other people’s lives as their great grandfathers did.
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May 11, 2010 2:02pm
MikeNZ

Great that leaves me out I’m not wealthy and discontented 🙂
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May 11, 2010 2:06pm
big bruv

Malcolm

So where do those expelled kids go then?

Kicking them out onto the street only lets the little bastards create havoc for other people.

Bring back Borstal, if they are expelled from school for violence or bringing weapons to school then send the little vermin to secure Borstal facilities, the community is safe and the piece of shit is given an environment with harsh discipline and rules that must be obeyed.
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May 11, 2010 2:18pm
big bruv

Oh look, another lefty troll.

Well Curia, how about you telling us what we should do?

Come on, ‘enlighten’ us, we could all do with a bloody good laugh.
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May 11, 2010 2:19pm
stephen

Kris K said:
corporal punishment,

eszett said:
beaten and disciplined

nickb said:
thrash, maim, and mutilate

…next? ‘Reign down death upon’?
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May 11, 2010 2:25pm
Jack5

Curia pigeon at 2.02 brings up “wealthy white males”…

Come into the 21st century, Curia pigeon. You’re thinking is jammed in the 1890s.

According to Forbes this year, Mexican Carlos Slim Helu is the world’s richest man.
White? Would he identify as white? Perhaps – who cares?

After Gates and Buffett come India’s Mukesh Ambani and Lakshmi Mittal at fourth and fifth richest.

Li Ka Shing is there at 14th richest.

Not even on the list Li Li, described now as China’s richest man after the float of his company this month made him worth about $NZ100 billion. That makes him rival Carlos Slim Helu as the world’s richest person.
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May 11, 2010 2:35pm
Stuart Mackey

Tariana Turia
“Te Urewera belongs to Tuhoe and the Government must reconsider its decision not to return it to them,”
************************

Clearly negotiation is to the Maori party what filling in forms is to a willing dole bludger?
Entitlement mentality writ large.
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May 11, 2010 2:40pm
curia pigeon

i know jack. it’s not enough that they gained independence – they have to get filthy rich as well. is there no justice in this world for the economically enfranchised white man?
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May 11, 2010 2:46pm
Jack5

Curia pigeon. (2.46 and 2.02): you are the one conflating capitalism and skin colour. No-one else here seems to care.

What do you mean “the economically enfranchised white man”?

Are you really such a racist?

And I’m not sure what you mean about gained independence. China was always independent (except for a few coastal enclaves and during World War 2) except when it was under the thumb of the Mongols.

Surely you can’t be such a chip-on-shoulder loser as to blame all the world’s woes on the small proportion of people with white skins?

Come to think of it, a lot of Northern Chinese think of themselves white, and many, and many Japanese, look whiter than Europeans.

Race is bullshit concept.
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May 11, 2010 2:53pm
krazykiwi

From tom hunters link at 11:28

But Yiannis Stournaras, a leading economist and former economic adviser to the ruling socialist party, said a majority of Greeks had lost the will to rebel. After years of profligate spending, he argued, Greece is being forced to make changes that would improve its competitiveness in the longer term.

“In any other situation the reaction would be fierce, but while the Greek people are angry, there will not be a widespread revolt because they realize that the alternative is for the country to go bankrupt. We have no other choice.”

Even the socialists are calling for austerity measures in support of long term improvements. Can we export ours, and import some from Greece please?
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May 11, 2010 3:02pm
Luc Hansen

Some interesting news items from across the ditch:

Australian climate researchers are warning that half the planet will be unfit for human habitation within 300 years. I’m light on detail at the moment – still looking for the exact basis of the prediction, but it fits with other research I have read.

And Australians are up in arms over asylum seekers being housed in a motel now – imagine when 100 million desperate people are heading their (and our) way.

It’s confirmed that water vapour (yes, water vapour is a greenhouse gas) doubles the temperature effect of human induced climate change – adding an extra 1 deg C for every 1 deg C we contribute from burning fossil fuels and farming methane=belching animals.

And we gt tied up in knots over such mundane matters a a well deserved and highly overdue apology (NZRFU: just do it, you sill old buggers) and a symbolic vesting of “ownership” (they can’t take it anywhere) of a national park to its rightful owners, the Tuhoe.

Perspective is a wonderful gift.

You guys should try it.

PhilU, maybe your double celebration over the Tories and the LibDems perhaps not partnering and Obama’s so-called plan to dismantle the military are both premature and perhaps misdirected. I fear the latter will end up n a coffin if he attempts such a thing, so don’t hold your breath!
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May 11, 2010 3:39pm
krazykiwi

I’m light on details at the moment

Indeed. And in other news, a new study shows that Climate Researchers face possible extinction as the flood of public ‘climate guilt’ money slows to a trickle. Analysts anticipate a rush of studies predicting increasingly dire consequences for the planet, the onset of which can presumably be delayed by a fresh supply of grants.
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May 11, 2010 3:50pm
curia pigeon

so bruv wants to send our troubled teens to get preyed upon by the likes of rekers. great.

jack – you were the one saying how terrible it is that left handed people are marginalised. you left out wealthy white men, so i corrected you.
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May 11, 2010 3:57pm
philu

yes…’wealthy (conservative) white men’…

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/how-do-christians-become-conservative/

“…The Jesus of the New Testament was of course extremely concerned with spiritual matters: …

… there is no doubt whatsoever about his role or interest in the issues of the day, that the spiritual well-being of his followers was a major interest of his.

How much he was involved with or interested in the political situation of the day is a matter of much debate and interpretation.

Some say it was a lot and others that it was pretty limited or, as conservatives would say, not at all.

However, much of a priority or focus it was, though, if you actually read the Gospels, it is clear that Jesus’ main concern in terms of the people whose fates he cared about was for the poor, the oppressed, and the outcast.

Comment after comment and story after story in the Gospels about Jesus relates to the treatment of the poor, generosity to those in need, mercy to the outcast …

… and scorn for the wealthy and powerful.

And his philosophy is embedded with the central importance of taking care of others, loving others, treating others as you would want to be treated.

There is no virtue of selfishness here, there is no “greed is good”, there is no invisible hand of the market or looking out for number one first.

There is nothing about poor people being lazy, nothing about the underserving poor being leeches on society …

… nothing about how I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps so everyone else should too.

There is nothing about how in nature, “the lions eat the weak”, and therefore we shouldn’t help the poor because it weakens them.

There is nothing about charity or welfare corrupting a person’s spirit.

What there is: quote after quote about compassion for the poor.

In Jesus’ very first sermon of his ministry, the place where he launched his public career, he stated the reason he had come:…

… to bring good news to the poor, liberty to the captives, to help the oppressed go free, and that he was here to proclaim a year of favor from the Lord —

–which in Jewish tradition meant the year that poor debtors were forgiven their debts to bankers and the wealthy.

In Luke 6, Jesus says the poor and hungry will be blessed, and the rich will be cursed.

He urges his followers to sell all their possessions and give them to the poor.

The one time he really focuses on God’s judgment and who goes to heaven is in Matthew 25, where he says those that go to heaven will be those who fed the hungry, clothe the naked, visited those in prison, gave shelter to the hungry, and welcomed the stranger-

– and those who don’t make it were the ones who refused to help the poor and oppressed.

And he was a really serious class warrior, too- he wasn’t just into helping the poor …

… he didn’t seem to like rich folks very much.

In Matthew 6, he focuses on the love of money as a major problem.

In Luke 11, he berates a wealthy lawyer for burdening the poor.

In Luke 12, he says that the wealthy who store up treasure are cursed by God.

In Luke 14, he says if we throw a party, we should invite all poor people and no rich people, and suggests that the wealthy already turned down their invitation to God’s feast, and it is the poor that will get in to heaven (a theme repeated multiple times).

He says that the rich people will have a harder time getting to heaven than a camel trying to pass through the eye of a needle.

He chases the wealthy bankers and merchants from the Temple.

I have never heard a conservative Christian quote any of these verses — not once, and I have been in a lot of discussions with Christian conservatives, and heard a lot of their speeches and sermons.

The one verse they always quote…

… (and I mean always — I have never talked to a conservative Christian about economics where they have not quoted this verse) …

.. is the one time where Jesus says “the poor will always be with us.”

The reason they love this quote so much is that they interpret that line to mean that in spite of everything else Jesus said about the poor, that since the poor will always be with us, we don’t need to worry about trying to help them.

Apparently since the poor will always be with us … we can go ahead and screw them.

But Jesus making a prediction that there will always be oppressive societies doesn’t mean he wanted us to join the oppressors.

By clinging desperately to that one verse in the Bible, and ignoring all the others about the poor and the rich …

… Christian conservatives show themselves to be hypocrites … plain and simple…”

(hands up…!..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 4:11pm
Luc Hansen

krazykiwi living up to his handle again…
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May 11, 2010 4:17pm
philu

you rightwing tories just don’t fucken ‘get it’ yet..eh..?

your hegemony is over…done…dusted….

..never again will 30 something percent of you be able to arbitrarily rule over the rest of us here in nz…

..and now in britain…the end of ‘your lot’..is nigh…eh..?

..and seven more years of ‘major change’ from obama..

..this tory govt here..is a political oddity….

..a last hold out…in an ever more ‘progressive’ world…

‘the times..they are a changing’ …

(and in the tory/rightwing world….have changed..

this is as significant as the fall of the soviet union/the berlin wall…)

(back to ‘the zimm’ again)..

…’and it’s all over now….baby blue..”

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 4:25pm
Luc Hansen

A fuller account of the research details are provided here http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10644219
and I must say confirms what I have been saying here for quite some time – that unavoidable and dangerous anthropogenic climate change is well underway and will have far reaching effects even by 2050, let alone by 2300.

While we must do all we can to lessen future deleterious effects to the climate, we must also plan for a future that, for us, will see increasing threats to our sovereignty.

To imagine that New Zealand will survive as a privileged, largely white enclave in a world of mayhem is just delusional. It’s only a matter of whether we make ourselves militarily impregnable, like Israel, for example; cave in to world pressure to admit millions; or just get deluged by flotillas of refugees. Or are we going to shoot them all?
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May 11, 2010 5:02pm
Fletch

Katy Perry tops Maxim’s 100 Hottest Women of 2010 List?!? What?
No way!! Are they kidding?
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May 11, 2010 5:13pm
Scott

Phil U-very good reasoning in your post at 4:11 PM. I agree — Christians whether conservative or otherwise should not neglect the commands of Jesus to help the poor.

I would say however that many Christians do help the poor — the Salvation Army is notable for its work amongst the poor. The Baptists have an extensive social services network, as do the Presbyterians, as do many other denominations.

You should argue biblically more often — very eloquently reasoned on your part.
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May 11, 2010 5:17pm
Hurf Durf

Attention progressive vermin: allow me to remind you of what has happened before when the extreme left have tried to undemocratically seize control of a country.

Your time will come – in the bottom of an excavated ditch.
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May 11, 2010 5:21pm
krazykiwi

Poor Luc. It’s all doom and gloom for you isn’t it? The world really is ending. It’s our fault. We’re all destined to become victims of some unimaginable tyranny. ‘Luc’, your impassioned fatalism positively toxic. Tell me, do your dinner party guests all look to throw themselves off bridges?
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May 11, 2010 5:25pm
philu

“..You should argue biblically more often — very eloquently reasoned on your part…”

thank you for the compliment..

but they are not my words…

..it is from an opinion piece i linked to at whoar..

and if you liked that…

get uyr head around this one…

where jesus predicts eternal suffering for the killers/eaters of ‘his’ creatures…

(this is from the dead sea scrolls…and written at the time of jesus..and is his preachings/teachings to the essenes…)

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/and-jesus-said-choke-on-a-chicken-bone-and-die/

read..!..think..!..and then go vegan..!

(you have no choice…)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 5:29pm
Luc Hansen

Say Hurf, how is a coalition of 53% of voters undemocratic?

Krazykrazy – you should examine the difference between pessimism and realism.
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May 11, 2010 5:36pm
Hurf Durf

How is a coalition of losers who don’t particularly want to work together but only are because they are forced to democratic?
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May 11, 2010 5:48pm
philu

when the lab-lib-dem coalition is announced…

will dpf end his long silence….and spit the dummy..and vent..?

or will he go all stoic..?..and just bite his trembling lip…?..and choke back his tears…?

place yr bets…!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 5:52pm
philu

“…How is a coalition of losers who don’t particularly want to work together but only are because they are forced to democratic?…”

you mean like national and the maori party..there..hurf..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 5:59pm
Hurf Durf

Nats weren’t forced to work with the MP. They had enough of a majority with ACT alone. MP tagged along for the initiative and to undercut the Labour opposition. Sorry.
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May 11, 2010 6:03pm
Viking2

Big jump in young Kiwis not earning

Tuesday, 11, May, 2010 5:00PM

The number of 20 to 24-year-old New Zealanders not earning, has almost tripled between 1996 and 2006.

Statistics New Zealand has found almost 16,000 people in that age group had no income in 2006, compared with just over 6,000 young people 10 years earlier.

And we are left wondering (or some are), why we have angry kids, drinking kids, beneficiary kids, cynical kids.
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May 11, 2010 6:21pm
philu

hurf..

the lib-dems are more left than labour…

(hold that thought..and let it sink in…ok..?..)

so..it must be that any tory/lib-dem coalition wd be that condition you warn against/describe..eh..?

but it’s ok..!

we understand you are grieving…and need to vent..to search for the ‘why?’…

..we feel/hear your pain..eh..?

as yr greed-driven/class-war-driven hegemony turns to total dust….

..and forever….

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 6:25pm
Viking2

New subject.
What does everyone think about Scurry McCully and key spending OUR MONEY on that stupid Buffon guy that’s locked up by the Japanese for attacking their whale boat.
Key Actually demanded on TV that a major trading partner for NZ answer to the NZ Govt. about the issue.
Well fuck me with a feather. The mans a fucking idiot.

We need them way more than they need us, supplies to NZ .01% of their product, ours to them 20% or something.
Buffon created his own problem by behaving like a criminal and he should shoulder the consequences. But not if the bleeding heart National Socialists can help it. Never mind the rest of us who pay for them and their bludging beneficiaries.

Don’t know who is advising Key but whoever it is wants sacking. Along with Smith.
Oh and sis you notice the PR spin out today with the research grants. Out today to smother the disgraceful behavoir over the Tuhoe Claim. And don,t bag it if you haven’t learnt about the claim.
Labour behavoir.
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May 11, 2010 6:29pm
philu

that patrick gower on tv3 gives good analysis/explanation..eh..?

he was quite clear tonight that key breaking his promises on the tuhoe deal..

is just a craven sop to the racist reactionaries that are such a large part of the national party…

(hands up..!..)

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 6:30pm
Hurf Durf

If you paid any attention to the British political system, not that you can afford to considering how rooted your brain is, you’d realise the frontbench and parliamentary party are more pragmatic and centrist than the batshit insane touchy-feely grassroots. Indeed, LD and Tory MPs have voted together more often than Labour and LDs. Sorry.

yr greed-driven/class-war-driven hegemony

This coming from a dole-bludging rich basher? Give me a break Phillip, you crackhead.
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May 11, 2010 6:59pm
philu

ah wel lhurf…

as with farrar….

..one of us will be right..

..eh..?

see you on the day….eh…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 7:27pm
Manolo

Wishart’s open letter to the incompetent (and consumate liar) Nick Smith: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1005/S00095.htm
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May 11, 2010 7:28pm
Hurf Durf

The 2010 Election will go down in history as a power grab orchestrated by smug, arrogant left-wingers. The consequences of such will be entirely their responsibility.
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May 11, 2010 7:33pm
philu

you gonna mount an expeditionary-force ..there…hurf..?

..against the ol’ mother-country..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 7:37pm
Steve

Phool, why don’t you fuck off and screw up your own blog? Sorry, your blog is already fucked, that’s why nobody visits it.
How much are the Americans paying you to fuck up Kiwiblog and also run a News Agregation Blog? I mean you must be getting something over and above bludging off the TAXPAYERS of NZ.

We did not care about your views yesterday, we don’t care today, and we will not care tomorrow

Foxtrot Oscar Magpie
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May 11, 2010 7:48pm
philu

c’mon steve..!…say something even vaguely interesting..!

..i dare you..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 7:57pm
Steve

vaguely interesting?

‘your blog’ is vague and not interesting shithead
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May 11, 2010 8:04pm
starboard

say something even vaguely interesting..!

…you mean like you whore…eh??..ppffft..

phool ( armed robber .co.nz )
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May 11, 2010 8:07pm
Steve

phool (my dogs are vegan. co and dots wherever you want dots)
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May 11, 2010 8:10pm
philu

have you two thought of forming a duo…and doing a duet…?

how about ‘the literates’..?..as a name..?

y’know…!

grunt-rock..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 8:13pm
tom hunter

And still the lesson of feeding trolls goes unlearned. Not to mention RIP
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May 11, 2010 8:18pm
Steve

Yeah Tom, but it is good to take the piss out of a nutbar who is a fuckwit of his own choice.
Not to mention he is a fucking parasite
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May 11, 2010 8:28pm
philu

speaking of ‘parasites’..where is bloody-hands-bob..?

..counting his ‘welfare-money’..?..

d’yareckon..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 8:31pm
philu

if the crowd laughs…and the rip-ers don’t see/hear it…

has it actually happened..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 8:34pm
philu

are rip-ers our tea-party…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 8:36pm
Steve

Bob is prob sleeping whore. He will have done 8 hours work by the time you wake from your drugs.
FFS he will have steak and eggs for breakfast, no mung beans or porridge.
I swear every time sideshowbob swings an axe into a tree he thinks “this is for you whore, this is for you’
Any Welfare Money he could/may get is ok, unlike a fucking parasite that expects an income from TAXPAYERS
Don’t you get it Phillip Ure? you are a leech
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May 11, 2010 8:43pm
philu

“…Any Welfare Money he could/may get is ok,..”

so you think it is ‘ok’ for a rich dairy farmer..(average income $7000,000+?..)

to ‘arrange’ his affairs..by use of a ‘clever’ trust-fund…

..to ‘qualify’ for a grand a month of ‘your’ tax-dollars..)

..in ‘welfare’..?

that’s ‘ok’..?

..is it..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 8:49pm
Put it away

RIP is awesome. I see from recent comments side panel on the front page that Phool spewed his full-stop diarrhea on this thread four or five times in a row, and yet…. nothing.
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May 11, 2010 8:58pm
philu

so you really do ‘put it away’…eh..?

put it away..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 9:01pm
starboard

..(average income $7000,000+?..)

..decimal point phool…decimal point…you really are a retard..
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May 11, 2010 9:28pm
philu

didyahear the one about the british tory-party ‘cruising to victory’…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 11, 2010 9:28pm
Hurf Durf

This is interesting.

Douglas Alexander, the international development secretary, tells BBC Radio Scotland that Labour will not enter into any agreement with the Scottish National Party because “there are fundamental differences between the Labour Party and SNP”. But without the Scottish and Welsh nationalists on side, a Lib-Lab coalition couldn’t come close to commanding a majority in the House of Commons.

So we’ve got a situation where Labour won’t work with the nationalist parties which would prevent them even getting a majority even if the LDs are on side and the Tories being unable to get full cooperation with the LDs even if Nick Clegg fully agreed to terms. Tory minority government or constitutional crisis? I’d put money on neither TBH.
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May 11, 2010 9:35pm
tom hunter

…..it is good to take the piss out of a nutbar……

Looking at the comments I could not help but be reminded of this take on a recent performance by a CNN anchorman. Take it away Mr Stewart:

I was especially struck by this comment from Stewart that CNN’s anchor’s delivery was:

……Like a guy at a party who’s doing a lot of coke, who traps you in a corner, who explains really intensely how an ant is the strongest animal on earth.
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May 11, 2010 9:54pm
redeye

“didyahear the one about the british tory-party ‘cruising to victory’…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)”

Oh dear. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/12/2896806.htm
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May 12, 2010 9:16am
side show bob

Philu thinking about going to the races in New Plymouth on Saturday, to invest some of my welfare money. I was wondering if you could do me a favor ?. Could you have a quick look at the form guide and pick me 8 winners. That will increase my chances of getting a decent return, 8 horses I won’t have to bet on.
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May 12, 2010 9:44am
wreck1080

“didyahear the one about the british tory-party ‘cruising to victory’…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)”

Yep, did hear that. Cheers for the heads up.
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May 12, 2010 10:08am
Bevan

Poor poor phoolu, must be hard crying all those tears this morning…

…Wrong about the Maori Party and National…

…Wrong about the Lib Dems and the Conservatives…

…Hows that Tory govment eh!…

Labour out in NZ
Labour out in UK
Labor doing their best to be out in Oz

Must suck to be a leftie at the moment.
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May 12, 2010 10:23am
philu

wreck…proportional representation was the golden ring/shapeshifter of this election…

..and that is done…

..and…the tories were expected to be able to rule alone….(hence..’cruise to victory’..)

…this scenario..a coalition with the lib-dems..and prop-rep on the horizon…posited pre-election…

..would have had most tories shuddering in horror…at the very idea…

..and..as noted at whoar..it was recalcitrant labour mp’s who killed any progressive coalition…

..and..my thesis that an old-school fascist tory govt..a la thatcher..was no longer possible…

..still stands…

..and the tories have won..at best…some ‘time’…a chance to prove they are ..

..as they say..’different’ from that model of boot-on-the-kneck toryism..

..and a chance to prove that they could work in a coalition govt…

..a prerequisite for their upcoming prop-rep..

and..the tories have won that ‘time’…

but they were so ‘hungry’ for it…they have had to clasp to their bosom the devils’-pact..of proportional representation.

..and so..are ensuring a party representing only 30-something percent of the population…

..won’t be able ‘to do a thatcher’…on the rest of the population..

and ..’crying’..?..hardly..

i’ll be watching with fascination..and comment…the heaving and bulging….

..as this..untenable at first glance…’beast’ of a coalition-govt…

..of parties from opposite ends of the political spectrum…

..(a comparison here wd be our tories..teaming up with the alliance…)

..try to ‘work’ together..

..so the ‘heaving and bulging’ should..in the long term..be lively…

..and interesting to watch/comment on..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 12, 2010 10:46am
nickb

Oh the excuses roll out philu… come on, be a man and admit that you were completely wrong. Dont make pathetic excuses
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May 12, 2010 11:05am

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