General Debate 9 April 2010

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adrianb

Does the fact that Meridian Energy can bribe the local Iwi to drop their opposition to a dam reveal just how racist, corrupt, and kleptocratic our whole bilcultural machine has become? I mean, read this (from the article in stuff):

Meridian said yesterday that it had made a payment so Ngati Waewae could “fund other cultural initiatives”. “They did a lot of work for us in assessing the cultural impact of the project,” spokesman Alan Seay said. “The cultural project we are funding is to offset the impact of the project on the mauri [life force] of the river.”

In Ngati Waewae’s original submission, represented by Richard Barber, it opposed the scheme for cultural reasons. “Ngati Waewae considers that the construction of the dam, power-generating stations and the associated infrastructure, such as the lake and transmission lines, will degrade the awa [river] and present a significant loss to the tangata whenua,” he told commissioners.

Oh, the poor Awa! The poor Mauri! More money please!

I’m now equally disgusted by the dam and Ngati Waewae. Figures.
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April 9, 2010 7:21am
dad4justice

“He broke Pakeha law to uphold his own law” said the greedy Maori raping trout stocks. Hi Rick Tau how’s the picnic fund and your big new cow farm?
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April 9, 2010 7:25am
starboard

you aint seen nothin…whanaora’s gona blow ya socks off…race based privilage here in good ‘ole NZ..what a shithole.
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April 9, 2010 8:04am
jcuknz

Dunedin’s assistant fire chief warning about a fire hazardous domestic building stated that the only fire exit was via one of the flats. What if there was a fire in that flat then everybody would be trapped …. shock horror! Does that mean in case of fire one is not permitted to use normal access routes to escape?
Mind you it is good that they do hunt out and close down buildings that are hazardous. Maybe he was mis-reported.
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April 9, 2010 8:09am
Yvette

“In a seminar on the alcohol limit yesterday, Capital & Coast District Health Board chief medical officer Geoff Robinson said New Zealand’s 80mg limit was high by international standards.
People below the current limit could display clear signs of intoxication, such as slurred speech, poor balance and impaired judgment, he said.
“I’ve seen [scientific] tests where the person is still below the legal limit and they’re absolutely appalled because they are so intoxicated that they’d never think of driving.”
Robinson said evidence pointed to a 50mg limit as the stage at which driving impairment became noticeable, with drivers over the limit taking increased time to respond to hazards and displaying high error rates. stuff.com

Doesn’t this make the present road ‘safety’ ads even more a waste of money?
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April 9, 2010 8:21am
Chuck Bird

Rise up AGAINST the ETS now!

Come to the Public Meetings below to learn how:

– the Govt and power generators will soon be celebrating windfall profits at your expense
– Petrol will soon go up 4 cents per litre because of the ETS
– the above rises will double to 10% and 8 cents per litre by 2013
– the cost of EVERYTHING ELSE will rise after 1 July due to power and transport increases
– These rises do not include rises in GST and other ‘normal’ increases
– New Zealand is the only country to press ahead with such a punishing eco-tax
– our major trading partners have put the brakes on their emissions remedies
– only by making your voice heard can you avoid this eco-tax.

John Boscawen will tell you how to make your voice heard on:

Friday 9 April – The Parenting Place, 300 Great South Road, 12 noon

For more information call Karen Bridgman on 09 531 5531
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April 9, 2010 9:25am
LeftRightOut

GD has been as quiet as a graveyard the last few days, so let’s inject some debate in to death and the modes of dying.

We have just seen a poor woman, Margaret page, starve herself to death rather than live what she had decided to be an unbearable life. Why should life have to end in such pain and suffering, why could we not arrange a way to smooth her pillow and ease her out of this life in comfort?

A great post on this topic from Dignity Blog in Canada, asking Would you trust these men to choose for you the manner and time of your death? Would you trust them to make the best choice, better than you would make yourself? Because, whether you know it or not, this is what they have presumed to do.

http://dwdcanada.blogspot.com/2010/04/popes-are-not-only-ones-who-think-they.html

just why do we bow down to the religious dreams of the few and deny dignity to the many?
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April 9, 2010 10:18am
Inventory2

LRO – let me read between the lines – what you’re saying is that you haven’t had the chance to bash Christians this week, so you’re orchestrating one, right?
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April 9, 2010 10:52am
Chicken Little

Sorry Chuck – just more politicians looking to cash in. ACT are just as self serving as the rest of them.

The only way this bullshit ETS is going to be kicked to touch is by people power. Unfortunately Kiwis are an apathetic lot who prefer to whinge and moan than take action, so the chances of that happening are pretty slim. Big John seems to think he doesn’t have to listen to us anyway so really we are fu*ked 6 ways to Sunday.

For the least hassle and the most gain a $300 ticket to Sydney seems the best option. Just gotta convince the kids now.

Seriously, it’s pretty obvious that National aren’t going to listen to anything except their own need to gouge more cash from the peasants ( that’s us ) which is disappointing to say the least. I had high hope for this Government but so far they’ve been one big disappointment. So the only question for me is how long do I wait around to see if they come right?
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April 9, 2010 11:09am
Viking2

Big Surprise for the ever suffering taxpayer.

Waihopai saboteurs get $50,000 legal aid
The Marlborough Express
Last updated 11:40 09/04/2010

LATEST: The $1.1 million bill to repair the sickle-slashed inflatable dome at the Waihopai spybase may not be the only cost facing taxpayers.

Figures released to the Marlborough Express newspaper show the legal aid paid so far to the three men responsible for the attack has topped $50,000.

Dominican friar Peter Murnane, teacher Adrian Leason and farmer Sam Land admitted using sickles to inflict fatal damage on one of two domes covering the Waihopai Valley spybase’s satellite interception dishes in 2008.

However, they were acquitted last month on charges of burglary and wilful damage after successfully arguing in court that they were driven by a belief that the satellite caused human suffering and their actions to shut it down, if only temporarily, were lawful.

Solicitor-General David Collins this week ruled out an appeal, but said he would look at suing the trio for the $1.1m cost to taxpayers of replacing the dome.

The move was welcomed by Mr Leason, who said the three men had less than $1000 between them, but would be pleased to see the spybase remain in the spotlight.

If they are so broke what do they live off let alone manage to do the damage they do. Now for a start none of them live just down the road from the dome, so it costs money to get there.
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April 9, 2010 12:29pm
Yvette

“New Zealand is the only country to press ahead with such a punishing eco-tax”

Why? And does this mean New Zealand will owe money under this regime to some country overseas to whom we will have to say in response to their amazement “Yes, we owe you this because we are the only country on the globe fucking silly enough to be doing this.”
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April 9, 2010 1:18pm
Manolo

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/local/3563286/Van-Dyk-charged-for-clearing-of-gorse

Even if it’s your own property! When will all stop?
It shows how long and voracious the bureaucrats are.
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April 9, 2010 1:29pm
Repton

A report to the Greater Wellington regional council said the work caused “significant soil disturbance on erosion-prone land, discharges of land to two watercourses on the property and deposition in the beds of those streams”.

The land was prone to slips because no vegetation was holding the soil in place, putting the [State Highway 2] at risk. The van Dyks were given abatement notices, fined $750 for breaching an abatement, and ordered to do remedial work.

But hey, they should have the right to do that if they want to, right?
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April 9, 2010 2:27pm
ben

…ordered to do remedial work.

Replant gorse?
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April 9, 2010 2:31pm
jocko

Adrianb re Meridian.
Big question is did the Board accede to what is in reality a bribe to buy off Iwi’s original cultural objection….if so, they should be fired…..as an example to the rest – especially as this is Meridian’s second time.
Bigger question – under the no-surprises requirement – were the two SOE Minister’s aware?
If so why didnt they express an opinion that such ‘cultural monetary payments’ are unacceptable and undoubtedly a(nother) terrible escalating precedent for the future.
If there were no ‘heads up’ – then again the Chairman responsible ought to be publicly exposed …. and fired!
Who’s betting?
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April 9, 2010 2:56pm
Patrick Starr

Seems this young South Islander was told to go and get himself a bit of ass

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10637316

(maybe the sheep have grown ugly)
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April 9, 2010 4:05pm
big bruv

I see that the National Socialists popularity has slipped below 50% for the first time.

Good, one can only hope that this spurs Neville Key into action and dumping the Labour lite policies.
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April 9, 2010 4:12pm
Rex Widerstrom

A bit of good news for your Friday…

Regular readers may recall me commenting a few weeks back about the elderly pensioner robbed of his money, which was then used to buy flash cars. When the robbers were arrested the (WA) government seized the cars under proceeds of crime laws but because the cars weren’t the property of the pensioner the government sold them and pocketed the cash.

Well it seems they’ve finally been shamed into backing down and Mr Fletcher will get his money back. And so he should… the first duty of a “justice” system should be to give the victim whatever restitution it is able.
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April 9, 2010 5:23pm
Hurf Durf

While the left-wing media ejaculates over Barky’s precious strategic advantage eliminator, sorry, the START treaty, Russia decides to pay back a little of that hope and change.

As President Kurmanbek Bakiyev confronts a political crisis in Kyrgyzstan, he is not getting any help from Moscow. If anything, the Kremlin appears intent on turning up the heat on the embattled Kyrgyz leader.

Gasoline and diesel prices are now set to rise sharply in Kyrgyzstan after Moscow suddenly slapped new customs duties on refined petroleum products being exported to the Central Asian nation. Prices for refined products could rise as much as 30 percent, stoking fears that inflation might further destabilize the already troubled Kyrgyz economy.

On April 1, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin terminated the preferred customs duties that Kyrgyzstan, as a member of the Eurasian Economic Community (the EurAsEC), had been receiving on Moscow’s gasoline and diesel exports. The apparent justification for the move is the fact that the EurAsEC is being eclipsed by a new Customs Union, comprising Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus. The Customs Union is set to become fully functional this coming July.

It remains unclear if similar energy-export duties will be applied to Russian petrol destined for Tajikistan, which, like Kyrgyzstan, is a member of the EurAsEC, but is not in the Customs Union.

Many political experts in Bishkek believe Moscow is punishing Bakiyev for his administration’s failure to evict American forces from the Manas air base, outside of Bishkek. In what most observers saw as a quid pro quo, Moscow promised a $2.15 billion aid package in February 2009 on the same day Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev pledged to close the base. The Americans, however, remain at Manas.

Looks like we’ve lost Kyygyzstan. Another Obama foreign policy success.
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April 9, 2010 5:38pm
philu

“..(maybe the sheep have grown ugly)..”

gee patrick..!..another of your ‘originals’ there..eh..?

(um..!..do you really think you are ‘fooling’ anyone..?)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 9, 2010 5:49pm
thedavincimode

you haven’t got time for this frivolity Oh Big Magpie, last blogger at the sharp end of the bludge queue … last cubicle on the left …

… get back to your remedial English course or Paula is going to have your sorry little arse on the business end of a shovel …all your dreams of getting a cushy little desk number up in smoke (so to speak)

pil (whoar.co.nz)
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April 9, 2010 5:55pm
Viking2

National’s poll support drops
NZPA
Last updated 17:26 09/04/2010

Calls to delay ETS get cool response Prentice set to challenge Shadbolt for Invercargill mayoralty English gives cautious blessing to Whanau Ora launch Maori leader wants to take trout ‘as a right’ The theory is laudable, but we still know next to nothing about the nitty-gritty of Whanau Ora Farewelling body parts ‘would help Maori donors’ Meridian confirms paying iwi objectors Protesters reject ‘US spybase’ denial Trade agreement draft leaked Security agency refutes Waihopai claims

Support for National has dropped to its lowest level in a year, but Labour has not benefited from the move according to the latest Roy Morgan NZ poll.

National’s support fell from 51.5 percent to 49 percent, while Labour was down from 33.5 percent to 33 percent.

The poll of 882 voters was taken between March 22 and April 4 and followed the Government beginning debate over opening up parts of the protected conservation estate to mining, and pushing changes to the tax system including a lift in GST.

The Roy Morgan NZ poll has consistently placed support for National at above 50 percent since February 2009 when it had 48.5 percent support, while Labour has had between 26 percent and 33.5 percent over that period.

Support for the Greens and the Maori Party both rose by one percentage point to 7.5 percent and 3 percent respectively.

ACT was down slightly to 2 percent and United Future were steady on one percent.

New Zealand First, which is no longer represented in Parliament was up one point to 3 percent.

Of those polled 57 percent believed New Zealand was heading in the right direction – a drop of 7 percentage points, while 31.5 percent (up 4.5 points) felt it was heading in the wrong direction.

Following the Democrats I’d say.
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April 9, 2010 6:16pm
Manolo

“Good, one can only hope that this spurs Neville Key into action and dumping the Labour lite policies.”

I wish you were right but I’m afraid you’re not. As Cameron Slater rightly pointed out, empty-suit Key has been a liar and leftie sleeper all his life. He’s made his personal fortune, so he could not care less about the middle-class he falsely professes to represent.

The neo-socialist National Party is a collection of gutless mediocrities who will never find the intestinal fortitude to dump this weak “leader” Neville Key. As a country we are doomed well before the socialist Labour Party takes regains power (heaven forbid).
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April 9, 2010 6:39pm
Patrick Starr

“um..!..do you really think you are ‘fooling’ anyone..?)”

phool – if you think the sheep are beautiful then thats your call
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April 9, 2010 6:44pm
big bruv

Manolo

I suspect you are right, Neville Key will see this as a reason to lurch more to the left, watch out for a gutless back down on the “get tough on bludgers” policy over the next few weeks.

IMHO the drop in poll ratings has nothing to do with attacking the welfare bludgers, it will be directly attributable to the upcoming cave in to the apartheid party over the seabed and foreshore.
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April 9, 2010 6:55pm
big bruv

Patrick

When I read that story I thought, “this man is nuts, only a complete idiot would do something as cruel as that” immediately my thoughts turned to one man…….
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April 9, 2010 7:03pm
Hurf Durf

Same dumb Kraut wailing about annimull wyghts on Close Up. Wish these people would change the fucking record.
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April 9, 2010 7:08pm
dad4justice

Meanwhile on TV Wee an insane couple who spent half a million on a mutt.
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April 9, 2010 7:19pm
philu

ah starr..!..i just listened to arthur conley doing ‘sweet soul music’..at high volume..

..’he ‘s the king of them all..y;know..!..james brown..!’

..how can yr irrelevancies even dent..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 9, 2010 7:24pm
Banana Llama

Speaking of Kyrgyzstan did you see all those cameras the protesters were carrying?
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April 9, 2010 7:30pm
philu

‘celluloid heroes’..the kinks..

..an utter masterpiece..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 9, 2010 7:35pm
big bruv

An audience with Steven

Last Tuesday night the phone rang fairly late in the Bruv household, I was tempted to let the bloody thing ring as I am somewhat a slave to the phone during my working day, however, when one has elderly parents who do not live in the same town or city as you then it pays to be on the safe side and answer the bloody thing.

Thankfully it was not our lawyer telling me I had just inherited their “fortune” rather the voice on the other end of the phone belonged to a local member of the National party.

She is a nice old duck and the first person I ever met during my brief foray into local party politics four or five years ago, anyway, clearly this lady (a genuine blue rinse cheer leader for the Nat’s) had been on the Gins for the better part of the evening, she went on to tell me that she was calling to remind me of the AGM for our local branch of the National party this Saturday afternoon, and, that should I wish I could bring a plate along at 12.30 so I could share in a lunch, after that (at 1.00pm) the AGM would start and that at the conclusion we would be addressed by the Rt Hon Steven Joyce MP.

I reminded her that I had not been a member of the National party since the day after Neville Key did a deal with the she beast over the anti smacking bill and that I was not aware that non members could attend the AGM, “oh don’t worry about that Bruv,you can always join up again when we elect you onto the committee” she replied.

My natural, and initial reaction was, and almost always would be to say in a very polite fashion “no fucking chance”, however, the devilish side of me took over, “you did say that Steven Joyce will be there did you not?” was my response.

“Yesh” she replied (having topped up her Gin) “we are all looking forward to that, so can we expect to see you there Bruv”?

“Oh yes” I said, “I would not miss it for the world”.

Thoughts of this AGM have filled my mind for the last few days, I checked with a very well connected blogger about filing a motion of no confidence in John Key and his government at this meeting but that well connected blogger tells me that I have to be a party member to do something like that.
Given that there is no way on this earth that the Nat’s are ever going to get one more cent out of me that option is a obvious no goer.

So, I am left with an audience with Steven, of course there are many things that I would love to tackle Joyce about but I know that he will not let me badger him for the two or three hours (short of taking him hostage at the end of a very large gun) it would take to go through the long list of back downs and broken promises of the Key government, hence I am left with one or possibly two points that I can have a crack at the man about.

My question is this, of this list what should I have a go at him about?

1. Breaking the tax cuts promise but keeping every other promise made to swing and Labour voters?
2. Borrowing 1 billion dollars a month and not making any real attempt to cut govt spending?
3. The continuing financial rape of the middle class?
4. The seabed and foreshore back down?
5. Cuddling up to an openly racist party?
6. The dirty stinking ETS?
7. ACC increases in place of tax cuts?
8. Giving Cullen a top job?
9. The continuing rort of the tax payer by MP’s?
10. Being Labour lite?

I think I will go with the ETS, but I am not sure what the other topic should be.

http://clintheine.blogspot.com/2010/04/audience-with-steven.html
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April 9, 2010 7:44pm
philu

lulu..and the jools holland orchestra..’where have all the good guys gone..?’

lulu..like you’ve never heard her before..

really fucken good..!..blistering..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 9, 2010 7:52pm
philu

jason ringenberg..and steve earle..’a bible and a gun’..

”as i travel through this land of woe..with a bible and a gun..’

ray charles..’let’s go get stoned’..

o-kay..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 9, 2010 8:04pm
Viking2

Don’t be a sook BB. Ask him when they are gunna sack Smith and English. Smith for being party to the two costliest calamities in NZ history and English for not being able to count.
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April 9, 2010 8:08pm
krazykiwi

bruv, so many options, so little time. I say go after the ETS. It stinks to high heaven, is based on discredited ‘science’ and there’s zero upside to the average kiwi for it going ahead. (I don’t class AGW alarmist apologists as average kiwis)
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April 9, 2010 8:10pm
big bruv

Yeah, well as I said, the ETS is a given, but I am not sure about the other one.

Getting rid of Smith works in with the ETS so I have that covered, the English one is tempting but I am not sure saying “sack him because he is a fuckwit” is going to have the desired result.

I am more inclined to really have a go at the bastard for the betrayal of the middle class, the poor hard working sods who have been the ones to really suffer under Klark and now Key.
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April 9, 2010 8:17pm
Banana Llama

If you dont mind me saying BB You could ask how Bill English has anything to do with what the National Party stands for.

“The National Party was founded on principles of individual responsibility, private enterprise, and reward for individual effort. These principles are the only sure path to a society of personal freedom and rising standards of living for all”

Raising Taxes and borrowing billions to cover the short fall dose not seem to compute.

http://www.national.org.nz/About/standsfor.aspx
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April 9, 2010 8:39pm
malcolm

“2. Borrowing 1 billion dollars a month and not making any real attempt to cut govt spending?”

I’m sure Joyce can bat most of those questions off easily (not that they’re not good questions), but I think 2 cuts to the nub of the problem in NZ.

It might be better to ask the question in such a way which doesn’t give him an easy out. Not to sure how though. As that question stands he can just point to areas where the government is freezing budget increases etc. It might be better to ask him if he thinks it’s a problem that the govt is borrowing $1B per week and if so what are they doing about it?
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April 9, 2010 8:51pm
Patrick Starr

“ah starr..!..i just listened to arthur conley doing ’sweet soul music’..at high volume..”

…and there I was thinking Silence of the Lambs was more your speed (“please baby, dont tell anyone”)
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April 9, 2010 9:12pm
starboard

…are you stoned again whore..ya rambling man..shut the fuck up…im tryin to read the GD but you keep buttin in with shite…
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April 9, 2010 9:23pm
lofty

Yeah phil…I normally don’t give a fig for your rambles, but mate you you really are not adding much to GD today…not that I think you add much any day…but you have every right, like me, to add fuck all.

As was written so nicely by David Niven in “the moons a balloon” .. “you think I know fuck nothing… but I can tell you I know fuck All”
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April 9, 2010 9:39pm
reid

Kyrgyzstan, with five million people in the mountains of Central Asia, is one of the poorest countries of the former Soviet Union, and has long been troubled by political conflict and corruption. Mr. Bakiyev himself took power in 2005 after the Tulip Revolution, one of a series of so-called color revolutions that seemed to offer hope of more democracy in former Soviet republics.

Putin has been winding these back bit by bit. Recall Georgia.

Also recall Brzezhinski and his connection to the colour revolutions and with Obama.

2+2=?

Sadly as is the case with many people but not all, apparently 2+2=”isn’t Tiger weally weally special and neaty” and forget about what else is happening.
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April 9, 2010 9:58pm
philu

i have just given you spiritual experiences via music..(at a loud enough volume.)

(talk about pearls before swine..and apologies to the pigs..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 9, 2010 10:22pm
pjje

WTGOR, the Meridian energy payment to the local iwi is not a Maori exploitation issue. It’s an RMA issue. And hard to see how you would be happy to bar one lot of neighbours from expressing opposition to a land use while allowing others to protect their rights. Gorse would seem to be an object lesson. Terrible stuff, but it does hold the land together – if you’re going to get rid of it without some sort of replacement, the neighbors below on the slope are justified in feeling some concern.

The answer may be some rethinking of who has an interest in the land as a neighbour. Maybe, if your ancestors sold the land decades ago and you don’t live in some sort of close proximity, well just maybe you’re about as much a neighbour as anyone else in New Zealand. But there seems to be an expectation that people with quite remote interests of quite surprising kinds are neighbours. In Wellington, it seems that people who build in the gullies have a right to a view of an uncluttered ridgeline, but those who look down upon them are not entitled to be protected from the blight of acres of multi-coloured roofs.

Of course, you could always go for the position that the owner of the land has an absolute right to use it a they wish. Just hope that they don’t put in a piggery. Or a kindergarten. Or a church. Or a pub. Or …

I have a vague recollection that the government of the day has somw plans for policy work or for legislation in this area.
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April 9, 2010 11:01pm

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