General Debate 8 April 2010

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Michaels

Should Stuff.co.nz and NZHerald.co.nz online join forces??

The reason I ask such a silly question is that every time I read a new story on either one of them, then flick over to the other, the other has copied it.
It is almost a waste of time reading the both, apart from opinions maybe.

Steal from here, steal from there, just join forces for fucks sake!!
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April 8, 2010 8:06am
Chicken Little

Big John Key rules out changes to the BIGGEST TAX GRAB EVER aka the ETS.

John seems to want NZ businesses to suffer. John seems to want NZ families to have higher costs for everything. Watch as the usual suspects (electricity Cos for example) gouge consumers under the umbrella of this mad scheme. For what? How much change in C02 levels is this bullshit going to produce? Sweet FA.

WTF is wrong with these people? Anyone with a ounce of sense realises that there is, at the very least, doubt about the science that has been produced to back up the AGW hypothesis. One can only conclude that there are more nefarious reasons behind politicians refusal to look at the facts ( or lack of them). What could it be?

Anyway – Fuck you National – you want to steal off my family expect the same back.

xxx

ex National voter.
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April 8, 2010 8:26am
Yvette

After suggestions yesterday that the reputedly ‘hard hiitting’ road safety ads are obviously failing, one in particular [ute down the bank with the bleeding guy yelling ‘Get the hell of me!’] was hammered on TV2 yesterday evening. All it says is ‘drunk guy drives off road’. Simple message which I got first time I ever saw it. I never need to see it again.
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April 8, 2010 8:27am
bearhunter

“All it says is ‘drunk guy drives off road’. ”

It also says: “guy playing drunk can’t act”. Most unconvincing load of old bollocks ever, and that’s saying something in a canon of ads that included the appalling “Mate, mate. maaaaate” ad, the barely intelligible “My mum woss heyaa and da kaa woss heyaa” and the woeful “Driving’s in the blood” one also currently infesting our screens.
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April 8, 2010 8:33am
kevin_mcm

feel good about your tax dollars being spent? I think they should be banned on the basis of danger to health – I know my blood pressure rises to dangerous levels every time I see 🙂
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April 8, 2010 8:37am
Pete George

the woeful “Driving’s in the blood” one

Yes, they are unconvincing, because tragedies still happen – 11th fatality over Easter:

A pig-hunting teenager who died after rolling his vehicle was not found until two days after his crash, when his father became concerned about his disappearance.

He disappeared on Sunday evening after attending the Tiniroto Easter Game Hunt.

A group of people set out to find him on Tuesday morning, discovering his empty vehicle about 10 minutes’ drive from the Tiniroto tavern, where the hunting competition weigh-in was held. It had rolled 80 metres down a bank off Tiniroto Rd.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10636977

Sound familiar to any of the advertisements?
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April 8, 2010 8:43am
Murray

He wasn’t drunk by that story Pete.

What else you got?
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April 8, 2010 8:48am
Pete George

I thought there was more of the “Driving’s in the blood” one in that.
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April 8, 2010 9:01am
krazykiwi

Chicken Little – Agree. It’s a tax scam. It has a backbone of junk science, body of bloated spin, and is cloaked in environmental guilt to make it ‘appealing’ to the masses.
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April 8, 2010 9:15am
JiveKitty

I don’t understand the new driving advert relaing to the use of drugs. The guy passes the breath test then the officer says something like “You’ve passed the test. Now you’ll have to come down to the station for a compulsory impairment test relating to drugs.” It seems to make a big leap there. I thought the police would have to have reason to suspect impairment from a substance other than alcohol. The advert doesn’t seem to show any reason except a group of young people in a car and a driver who passes a breath test? What, all young people who’re travelling in a car and have a driver who passes a breath test for alcohol obviously have a driver who’s on other drugs now? Is there something I’ve missed? I don’t really pay a lot of attention to the ads so I admit I could’ve had a lapse in attention.
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April 8, 2010 9:26am
virtualmark

Michaels … you might find the stories you’re referring to are from NZPA, check them out at http://www.nzpa.co.nz

A lot of breaking news stories and press releases come via NZPA. All of the major media groups use NZPA, including TVNZ, TV3, NBR etc.

If the story is big enough then the Herald, Stuff etc will allocate it to one of their own journos who’ll then put together a unique follow-up story, normally with more detail & with the paper’s own unique slant.
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April 8, 2010 9:42am
menace

chicken little, re the science side of it, neither proved nor disproved in my view.

It is my belief though that the human race does have at least enough of an impact on the environment that we should be conscious. about minimizing our impact.

I never agreed with the ETS though, I’ve always believed that the government should enact a tax on people for these same things but instead of sending the money over seas we should use in to upgrade our public things and to subsidize private things(insulation etc)…….
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April 8, 2010 10:00am
menace

JiveKitty, just more harassment of pot smokers mate, the mindless drug war, 95 percent of illegal drug use is marijuana, and the other 5 percent is the bad ones like P or heroin etc. Once they get into full swing with this drug testing they will end up taking anybody that installs pink bats down to teh station for a drug test all the time.
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April 8, 2010 10:05am
camrun

JiveKitty, you miss the bit where he hits the cones coming into the checkpoint. I always assumed the cop saw the fast food (munchies) and the expressionless, brain-dead look on the driver’s face (which to be fair most teenagers have) and put 2 and 2 together. I would think a policeman more than most people would be able to pick up the signs of drug use.
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April 8, 2010 10:12am
RKBee

Michaels @8:06 am

Should Stuff.co.nz and NZHerald.co.nz online join forces??

I think you answered your own question.

>>Chicken@ 8:26 am

Thats the price we pay for being Sheep.

>>JiveKitty@ 9:26 am

Adds only work for the benefit of the advertising agencies.
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April 8, 2010 10:29am
JiveKitty

@camrun: it kind of makes sense now. I must’ve missed the start? It still seems weak as an advert.

@menace: I always figured the statistics for pot would show drivers going very slow?
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April 8, 2010 10:30am
menace

Jivekitty. I guess it depends how stoned they are, the more you smoke the slower you drive, a bonus effect shall we say.
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April 8, 2010 10:34am
camrun

Paedophile monks released on parole. (NZ Herald)

“In 2006, Bernard Kevin McGrath was found guilty of 22 charges against nine victims aged 7 to 15 and was sentenced to five years in jail. McGrath was released on parole in February 2008, just less than two years into his five-year term.”

“In 2008, [Rodger William] Moloney was found guilty of seven charges of sex abuse against boys and also jailed. He was released in September 2009, 13 months into his 33-month sentence.”

“In making its decision to release Moloney, the Parole Board said even though Moloney continued to deny the offending, he was unlikely to reoffend because he would not be put in the same circumstances again.”

“One of the men [Moloney] has been brought back into the fold of his Catholic Order, which will give him a home in Australia once his parole period is up.”
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April 8, 2010 11:30am
Manolo

Key’s dishonesty at its worst: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10636890

The spineless PM who said his government would not increase taxes hits the population of this country with a new levy.
So much for the neo-socialist National Party. Shame on it.
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April 8, 2010 11:33am
side show bob

Yeah go for it Chicken Little you are so right. The National socialists have been hijacked by Melon loons like Smith. What’s wrong with Shonkey? The latest official bullshit press release from the climate change office was picked apart in a matter of hours today and is a total work of fiction. But the bastards have the stupidity to claim they stand for lifting NZ up in the OECD rankings. They seem to be hellbent in enforcing some leftist dribble that countries throughout the world are now totally rejecting. Wise up National, you are a laughing stock and deserve nothing but contempt from the populace. But I guess you lot are just like the last lot of scabby arsed, socialist , thieving arseholes.
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April 8, 2010 12:27pm
wreck1080

What chicken little says.

And….

Why the hell are the media not screaming the injustice across the headlines?

Where do the new taxes go?

Where is the media’s in depth analysis of NZ’s carbon tax vs what our major trading partners are doing? France dropped their carbon tax plans last week. China/US/Aussie , some of the largest emitters are doing nothing .

John Key says that if we do nothing then overseas consumers will not buy our products. I say fuck that bullshit. People will no longer buy our products because they are too expensive compared to our trading partners who do not tax carbon.

John Key, because of you I will pay more for gas and power. I refuse to conserve more energy. So carbon emissions reduction from my household will be ZERO! SO, fuck you.

There is no point for NZ to tax carbon until the major carbon emitters come on board (not that I agree with the entire global warming scam anyway). At the very least, you should let the relevant world powers set the policy. After all John, you are only the limited leader of an insignificant island next door to nothing. Otherwise, who do you think you are John?

Signed,
Another EX-NATIONAL voter

ps. , I guess Act will have to be my new party for lack of a viable alternative.
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April 8, 2010 12:38pm
freethinker

Why are Key & Smith not explaining in detail why the Ets is being imposed despite our trading partners not doing so, in the absence of a credible response I too look like giving both my votes to ACT or perhaps abstaining on the electorate vote.
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April 8, 2010 1:19pm
Manolo

“Why are Key & Smith not explaining in detail why the Ets is being imposed ..”

Because they know best and care fuck all about the people, unless of course at election time, when they bend over, lie and make promises seeking your vote.

Key has shown to be a con-man, an empty-suit of the worst kind. On top of his weak demeanour, the PM has so far failed on few electoral promises.

Key is nothing but a disgrace to the National Party, which this days appears to attract yes-man, morons, spin-doctors, accomplished mediocrities, and endless well-paid sycophants.
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April 8, 2010 1:25pm
sbk

“Because they know best and care fuck all about the people, unless of course at election time, when they bend over, lie and make promises seeking your vote.”…deja-vu..no different from the last mob….= ex national voter.
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April 8, 2010 3:17pm
krazykiwi

National have lost my electorate vote. Primary reasons are their S59 and ETS idiocy, and their disinclination to deal with the rotting albatross that is our bloated public sector. National are useless and disappointing.
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April 8, 2010 3:40pm
Pete George

It’ll be interesting to see who all the ex voters will vote for next year then.

Maybe someone in the Nats keeps an eye out for scientific developments. Bruce has some interesting links:

Rising Water Temperatures Found in US Streams and Rivers
Flowers bloom earlier as UK warms
Geologist Connects Regular Changes of Earth’s Orbital Cycle to Changes in Climate
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April 8, 2010 3:54pm
krazykiwi

Yes pete, those news stories keep appearing. The Climate Change Alarmism Timeline 1895-2009 makes for an interesting chronology.
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April 8, 2010 4:01pm
Manolo

Cooler Water Temperatures Found in Russian Streams and Rivers
Trees Lose Leaves as Patagonia cools
Geologist Connects Regular Changes of Earth’s Orbital Cycle to Coca Cola’s Cherry Flavour

The endless imagination of the AGW fraudsters and their acolytes!
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April 8, 2010 4:02pm
big bruv

Pete George

“It’ll be interesting to see who all the ex voters will vote for next year then.”

Damn right, I cannot and will not vote for Labour, the Greens are out for obvious reasons and I am stuffed if I will vote for Baubles Hide and the ACT party while he is still the leader.

In some ways I think Neville Key knows that there is nowhere for the right to go, this is why he treats anybody who takes personal responsibility for their lives for granted, like Klark and Kullen before him Key sees the middle class as his very own ATM machine that he can take money from whenever he fucking well feels like it.

I can see how this would work on the ninth floor.

Only have as many kids as you can afford……good, lets make things harder for them by cancelling their tax cuts and increasing their ACC contributions.

Never contemplate voting for Labour……good, lets rape these suckers for every penny we can and give it to the middle or floating voters.

I never thought I would despise any politician as much as I despised Klark, but, Neville Key has just about caught up, he really is a snivelling, gutless little wanker who has no place in the National party.
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April 8, 2010 4:22pm
Bryla

Aaaaah, the GCSB finally speaks about Waihopai, and says “[Waihopai] was not – and is not – contributing to ‘unspeakable evil’. Quite the reverse.”

There you go, from those most reputable spies, Sir Bruce Ferguson and Warren Tucker – Waihopai only ever contributes to speakable evils (but we can’t speak about that).

Believe them at your peril.
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April 8, 2010 6:57pm
Bryla

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3562100/Security-agency-refutes-Waihopai-claims
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April 8, 2010 7:01pm
Pete George

KK, Manola – with different research results showing mixed trends how can you be sure you are right?
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April 8, 2010 7:07pm
Steve

So where do I sign up for the big bruv party?
We can change the name later.
I’m serious, I’ve had a gutsfull of these peacocks. Vote for a change and all you get is a change of faces.
Start whistling John and Nick and Bill and Gerry and the rest of you
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April 8, 2010 7:34pm
WebWrat

What I said on CR.

“Didn’t get to vote in last election. Got late mustering and getting 4000 wethers across the Esk. 1.5 hour drive to the polling booth, so I couldn’t get there before it closed. I said to Mr Boss Man, “If that bitch gets back in for the want of one vote, I’ll fucking kill you!”

Turns out it wouldn’t have mattered.

Can’t believe the contempt these mongrels have for us.”
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April 8, 2010 7:41pm
Viking2

And don’t forget this is Smiths second attempt to ensure catastrophic disasters for NZ. The biggest ever is the changing of the building material rules under the last Nat Govt and in particular the use of softwood untreated. The current lifetime estimates of cost are running somewhere between 11 and 23 billion. Thats not a bad starter and now he has foisted the ETS on us with the help of the useless.
Hope osmocoate screw the crap out of him, just like he has helped to screw the rest of us. He is a nut case and to think he was made Deputy. urrgh
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April 8, 2010 7:50pm
krazykiwi

Pete – Those who promote climate change calamities the loudest stand to gain power, wealth or both if their prognostications gain traction. That’s enough for me to call it a partisan, vested interest fraud with an evidence veracity factor approaching zero. But we’ve done this debate to death, and you’re as intransigent as I on this matter. Time will tell.
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April 8, 2010 8:42pm
krazykiwi

Environmental angst — Going ‘green’ doesn’t work (9 Jan, Washington Post)

As environmentalism continues to grow in prominence, more and more of us are trying to live a “greener” lifestyle. But the more “eco-friendly” you try to become, the more likely you find yourself confused and frustrated by the green message.

Have you tried giving up your bright and cheery incandescent light bulbs to save energy only to learn that their gloomy-but-efficient compact fluorescent replacements contain mercury? Perhaps you’ve tried to free up space in landfills by foregoing the ease and convenience of disposable diapers only to be criticized for the huge quantities of energy and water consumed in laundering those nasty cloth diapers. Even voicing support for renewable energy no longer seems to be green enough, as angry environmentalists protest the development of “pristine lands” for wind farms and solar power plants.

Why is it that no matter what sacrifices you make to try to reduce your “environmental footprint,” it never seems to be enough? Well, consider why it is that you have an “environmental footprint” in the first place.

continues …
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April 8, 2010 9:08pm
wreck1080

Everyones a greenie until the power goes off.
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April 8, 2010 9:19pm
LeftRightOut

DPF – You’re probably adding to the cork collection right now, looks as though the ALPmay not have lost tasmania after all.

Caretaker premier David Bartlett has been ordered by the state’s Governor, Peter Underwood, to recall Parliament and test his support as premier on the floor of the assembly, a Government House statement says.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/labor-told-to-form-government-in-tasmania-20100408-ruq5.html
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April 8, 2010 9:40pm
Hurf Durf

Tasmania is proof, as if any more is needed, that Green Parties worldwide are malignant cancers that need to be excised. This may come sooner rather than later if Greenpeace makes good on its threat to persue a campaign of intimidation and terrorism.
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April 8, 2010 9:42pm
krazykiwi

Love it:

Carlsberg workers strike over beer-drinking rights

A few hundred warehouse workers and drivers at Danish brewer Carlsberg halted work for a second day on Thursday to protest a company decision to limit beer drinking at work to lunch breaks.

The strike in Denmark followed the company’s April 1 decision to introduce new rules for employees on beer drinking at work, said Jens Bekke, spokesman at the world number four brewer.

“There has been free beer, water and soft drinks everywhere,” he said. “Yesterday, beers were removed from all refrigerators. The only place you can get a beer in future is in the canteen, at lunch.”

I imagine the warehouse fork-lift races on a Friday afternoon will be a safer spectator sport for this move.
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April 8, 2010 11:00pm
minto57

The Three Wallys of Wiahopai
There was Friar Wally Half a Potatoe Wally and I am not lost Wally and all were supercilious but theres more because there was a fourth and he was the big Wally.
He could not be one of the three wallys as that would be a conflict of interest but he was a wally all the same because he could not instruct a Jury if trialed.
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April 9, 2010 12:21am
Viking2

I trust that Corrections will be obliged to remove this fellow from their payroll.

Maori leader wants to take trout ‘as a right’
By MIKE WATSON – The Dominion Post
Last updated 05:00 09/04/2010

A prominent Maori leader caught netting trout at Lake Taupo says local iwi should be able take fish as a right.

Raniera Morehu, 55, a Corrections Department iwi liaison officer, pleaded guilty in Taupo District Court yesterday to three charges of taking seven trout using a net, fishing without a licence and exceeding the maximum daily allowable limit of three trout.

Morehu was one of eight Taupo men who appeared in court yesterday on charges of illegally netting trout in three separate incidents.

Seven of the men pleaded guilty to gill-netting a total of 49 trout in the Waimarino Stream, which was closed for winter spawning, on September 6 and September 26 last year.

The seven – Horowai Apanui, 18, Patrick Apanui, 46, Patrick Apanui Jr, 19, Kahukurangi Elwyn Tahau, 20, Conrad Cypress Wall, 18, Sieste Te Hokimai Posthuma, 17, and Jubilee Matiu-Rhys Pitiroi-Ellis, 20 – were remanded on bail to appear for sentencing in June. Morehu’s lawyer, Taryn Tuari, said Morehu was confronted by a conflict between two cultures – Maori and Pakeha.

“He broke Pakeha law to uphold his own law.”

Ms Tuari said Morehu had taken the trout for a tangi. He believed it was his customary right as a kaumatua to gather trout for food.

Morehu had been convicted of illegally netting trout 15 years ago.

Conservation Department lawyer Mike Bodie said the Lake Taupo fishery was funded solely by licences and contributed millions of dollars to the local economy.

The sustainability of wild rainbow and brown trout depended on undisturbed spawning in rivers feeding into the lake, he said.

The Court of Appeal had ruled customary rights to gather trout for food did not apply because trout were an introduced species.

Morehu was seen by Conservation Department rangers about 5.30am on January 17 gathering in a net he had set overnight at the mouth of the Hinemaiaia Stream, near Hatepe, 15 kilometres south of Taupo, the court was told. In the net were seven dead trout.

Morehu admitted he owned the net and knew it was illegal to catch trout this way.

He told rangers he had been assigned by his hapu to gather food for a headstone unveiling at Hatepe five days later.

Judge Jocelyn Monro said there was only one law for the court. “There was no right to catch trout without an licence.”

Morehu was fined $900 and ordered to forfeit the fishing net.

Outside court, he said he would arrange a meeting between iwi and DOC officials to discuss allowing trout to be caught as a customary right.

“It is possible to have a sustainable fishery if we are allowed customary rights to gather food for whanau.”
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Morehu said that poaching would continue unless a solution was found.

DOC regulation officer Jillian Larsen-Welsh said the convictions only “scratched the surface”. “Poaching has a substantial effect on the fishery.”

Each female trout laid 3000 eggs when spawning and poachers walking up stream beds also damaged spawning grounds.

FISHY BUSINESS

Total number of trout estimated in Lake Taupo: 200-250,000. Number of fishing licences sold annually: 40,000. Impact of fishery on Taupo economy a year: $90-$100 million (licences,

Clearly this prick gets paid from our money and he still thinks its ok to steal someone else’s resources. Not a shinning example of honesty to be a liaison Officer whose role one would assume is to rehabilitate offenders of the same ilk.
Does corrections have a policy of firing thieves from its employ?
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April 9, 2010 6:51am
Pete George

# krazykiwi (4704) at 8:42 pm

Those who promote climate change calamities the loudest stand to gain power, wealth or both if their prognostications gain traction. That’s enough for me to call it a partisan, vested interest fraud with an evidence veracity factor approaching zero.

This is a bizarre justification for your stance, which seems to have nothing to do with the science.

But we’ve done this debate to death, and you’re as intransigent as I on this matter.

I agree that you are intransigent – you seem to have made up your mind to hold an extreme view and base every comment on that rather than on facts.

I’m still far from sure about the degree of effect humans have on the climate, and far from sure about what, if anything can and should be done about it.

The links I pointed to were a mix – two suggested possible examples of warming in the UK and the US, the other on the external effect of earth’s changing phases. That doesn’t suggest intransigence, it highlights the complexity of the issue.
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April 9, 2010 7:13am
krazykiwi

Pete – yawn. Fewer people believe the lies anymore. Get used to it.
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April 9, 2010 8:51am
Pete George

KK – do you think the three researchers I referred to are all lying?
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April 9, 2010 9:04am
krazykiwi

Pete – yawn. Fewer people believe the lies anymore. Get used to it.
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April 9, 2010 9:07am
Pete George

I have already gotten used to the fact that people like you are not interested in science, they just want to push a blanket denial line. I wonder why.
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April 9, 2010 9:15am
krazykiwi

I have already gotten used to ignoring you on this matter after you repeatedly accused me of ‘being in someone’s pay’ for the views that I hold.

The litany of now exposed lies, and political or economic vested interested driving climate change alarmism underpins what I believe.

You believe what you like.
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April 9, 2010 9:30am
Pete George

I believe there will be a lot more research done (and now handled more rigorously), and I’m interested in seeing where it might lead. I also believe that those who completely deny any affect now and in the future because of some problems with some of the scientific processes are some kind of krazy.

Your approach is like saying the whole bible must be crap because of some obvious nonsense in it.
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April 9, 2010 9:39am
Dazzaman

Ms Tuari said Morehu had taken the trout for a tangi. He believed it was his customary right as a kaumatua to gather trout for food.

This is probably the crux of the matter, and he’s probably right if the treaty is to be taken at face value…anyhoo time to wait for the redneck reaction, LOL.
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April 9, 2010 9:51am
malcolm

Your approach is like saying the whole bible must be crap because of some obvious nonsense in it.

Sounds about right.
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April 9, 2010 9:51am
krazykiwi

I won’t bite on your Christian baiting. You go on believing in impending climate doom, and be happy to sacrifice whatever personal or financial demands are made of you as a result. That is your choice.
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April 9, 2010 9:53am
Pete George

You don’t want to listen, do you. I don’t believe impending climate doom is likely at all, for most people at least. I don’t like the ETS. I do think we should look at ways to minimise our affect on the environment and stretch our energy resources as much as we can, I’m prepared to pay a premium for a more sustainable way of living – I don’t believe armageddon is likely so I think we should consider what we leave for future generations.

That wasn’t Christian baiting, I think it was a valid comparison.
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April 9, 2010 10:27am
krazykiwi

Pete, What is apparently frustrating you is that I won’t think what you want me to think. Deal with it. Good on you for standing up for what you believe though, moreso if you electively take on a premium cost. Now if you’ll excuse me I have a veggie garden to weed and water, and will later be cycling into the city for a meeting (My cycle t-shirt reads ‘One Less Car’)
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April 9, 2010 10:58am
Pete George

Maybe it is you that is frustrated that a few thousand scientists don’t care what someone with a closed mind thinks and will continue with their research that will add to the overall picture.

I think it’s curious that someone who has beliefs with no scientific basis at all won’t consider a wide body of science, using the excuse that a few scientists stuffed up.
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April 9, 2010 11:43am

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Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

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