General Debate 7 April 2010

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Manolo

The Dom Post reports the inveterate trougher “Carter on multi-stopover trip to observe elections”. He will be going to Paris, Berlin, Warsaw and Brussels on his way to observe the UK elections in London.

Of course, he travels 90% subsidised by the rest of us. The hard life of a delicate socialist MP, uh?
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April 7, 2010 8:12am
sonic

This seems to be the hot topic online

http://wikileaks.org/
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April 7, 2010 8:16am
Inventory2

Well noted Manolo – d’ya reckon that it is by accident or design that Chris Carter will be away from the media spotlight when the Labour ministers’ expenses are released to the public?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/04/carter-chronicles-off-he-goes-again.html
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April 7, 2010 8:39am
Yvette

“The value for money of shock-tactic road safety ads is being reassessed as police mop up after the worst Easter road toll since 1993.” – stuff.com

In my opinion the most meaningful ads showed where a car could be stopped from 50 kph to the additional distance to stop under the same circumstances from 60 kph. It gave the actual distance for the extra 10 kph. Which I can’t now remember – it has been so long since it has been shown. but it seemed clearer and more logical than the mini dramas of young people crashing cars.
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April 7, 2010 8:44am
Pongo

As a prelude to the incoming ETS without even dicussing if AGW is fraudulant science the carbon market certainly is. http://www.economist.com/business-finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15774368
I heard 90% of credits traded are questionable but it looks like you can buy carbon credits that have already been used.
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April 7, 2010 8:49am
trout

Interesting to hear Joyce going head to head with Cosgrove on 1ZB. Compared with Annette King Cosgrove is a light weight, a real wooly thinker who has become used to throwing around non-facts unchallenged; this does not work in a one on one debate.
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April 7, 2010 8:53am
toad

@Manolo 8:12 am

Speaking of troughers, it seems Big Gerry tried to get the taxpayer to pay for his legal costs consequent on his assaulting Neil Abel at the 1999 National campaign launch:

“In hindsight, I would have thought ‘oh well, I’ve got this big bill, I may as well see what is possible’. But quite clearly it wasn’t appropriate.”

I suppose that, unlike Double Dipton’s housing allowance, Gerry at least now admits it wasn’t appropriate.
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April 7, 2010 8:58am
krazykiwi

Pongo – Leaving aside the flawed science, I find it fascinating that the drooling lefties line up in support of carbon trading when the whole mechanism was concocted by Wall Street vultures. There’s already widespread evidence of fraud, fraud and more fraud.
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April 7, 2010 9:00am
toad

Actually, krazykiwi, the Greens don’t “line up in support of carbon trading”:

The Green Party believes that putting a price on greenhouse gases is desirable to reduce emissions, as well as to incentivise energy efficiency and renewables. Our strong first preference is for a carbon charge, recycled into income tax reduction for all taxpayers, and into funding carbon abatement. However there is currently little chance of this happening in NZ, so we will work to improve the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) put forward by Government.
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April 7, 2010 9:08am
krazykiwi

toad, “working with the goverment to improve” something is supporting it. Nice try though.
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April 7, 2010 9:11am
big bruv

DPF

It is true that the tax payer is funding Nick Smiths defamation trial?

If this is indeed true then it is an outrage.
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April 7, 2010 9:23am
big bruv

Toad

Have the Greens paid back the money they stole from us over the housing rort?
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April 7, 2010 9:25am
Pongo

Krazykiwi / Toad on this issue one cant help but get the impression that Key is taking on the Clark persona of ignoring all evidence and driving this through regardless, he has developed a tin ear on the issue. I believe we should protect our environment and happy to do my bit but I fail to see how buying dodgy carbon credits helps, there is a large list of local things they could be doing instead that would have a far bigger impact.
Living in Christchurch where 99% of the year my power comes from hydro having my power bill rise by 10% doesnt appear to make any logical sense.
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April 7, 2010 9:25am
Pete George

Living in Christchurch where 99% of the year my power comes from hydro having my power bill rise by 10% doesnt appear to make any logical sense.

So they finance building another hydro dam on the West Coast.
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April 7, 2010 9:29am
peterwn

Toad – how about reading the whole Herald article you linked to. Labour MP’s have also had government aid for defending libel cases, Trevor Mallard’s name being being prominent. I predict that Nick Smith will be refunding a big chunk of the contribution he received for defending the libel case against him – when he trounces the outfit bringing the case. To prevail they need to show malice on Nick’s part – they will be pushing it uphill on this point. I think they are hoping to bankrupt Nick to teach him a lesson (bankrupcy of electorate MP => byelection).
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April 7, 2010 9:34am
Shunda barunda

“So they finance building another hydro dam on the West Coast.”

Like the one that is going to flood one of the top 10 remaining river ecosystems in the country?
I like hydro, but it must be done in a way that doesn’t wreck the place.
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April 7, 2010 9:40am
malcolm

I like hydro, but it must be done in a way that doesn’t wreck the place.

Impossible. And the good and relatively easy places were damned first leaving the more marginal ones. Which is pretty much all you see now. If people weren’t so irrational about raising the level of Lake Manapouri a lot more energy could be obtained from that water and it might not be necessary to build these more marginal stations which flood a lot of land.
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April 7, 2010 9:47am
Murray

So are you fuckers in favor of green energy or not?

Maybe you thing it gets delivered by bloody electricity pixies. If you’re all that worried about it then stop using electricity, start by turning off your computers.
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April 7, 2010 9:49am
toad

@peterwn

With Nick Smith and Trevor Mallard there is at least some connection between the legal proceedings and their doing their jobs as MPs. In Gerry Brownlee’s case, he simply lost his temper and assaulted someone, and then tried to get the taxpayer to pay for his resulting legal costs.
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April 7, 2010 9:49am
malcolm

So are you fuckers in favo[u]r of green energy or not?

There’s no such thing as ‘green’ energy. There’s renewable energy and as with everything there are costs and tradeoffs. Which is what people are talking about. Sorry if that’s upsetting.
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April 7, 2010 9:55am
Jack5

Congratulations to Kiwiblog poster Colonel Masters for being named Anzac of the Year.

Well deserved for a brave man who fought so hard for the Vietnam veterans after being last commander of the Kiwi battery in the Vietnam War.

The link:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3552130/Old-soldier-humbled-by-Anzac-of-the-Year-award
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April 7, 2010 9:55am
Dirty Rat

toad

phew…….

that makes it okay then
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April 7, 2010 9:56am
big bruv

Toad

I just do not remember the Greens being outraged at the seemingly endless line up of Labour MP’s and associates who were not even charged by the Police after committing crimes and in one case a blatant assault.

Come to think of it, how come the Green party never offered up Nandor for his crimes?
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April 7, 2010 9:57am
Inventory2

Indeed big bruv – smoking dope in the name of Rasta does not make it any less of a crime
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April 7, 2010 10:04am
lofty

@ Jack5…. Hear hear, an award that is deseved in the extreme, well done that man. We are forever in your debt.
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April 7, 2010 10:11am
Repton

“The value for money of shock-tactic road safety ads is being reassessed as police mop up after the worst Easter road toll since 1993.”

In 1993, there were 600 fatalities on the roads in the year, or 2.7 per 10,000 vehicles.

In the year ending January 2010, there were 391 deaths at 1.2 per 10,000 vehicles.

Maybe people are becoming inured to them; I don’t know. But let’s look at things in context, shall we?
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April 7, 2010 10:18am
nickb

Oh dear, more Maori funding disappears in mysterious circumstances:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3552041/Maori-funding-missing-police
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April 7, 2010 10:24am
Bevan

I suppose that, unlike Double Dipton’s housing allowance, Gerry at least now admits it wasn’t appropriate.

So when are the Greens going to come out and admit their Wellington accomodation arrangements are inappropriate? Corrupt even…
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April 7, 2010 10:30am
Bevan

Krazykiwi / Toad on this issue one cant help but get the impression that Key is taking on the Clark persona of ignoring all evidence and driving this through regardless, he has developed a tin ear on the issue.

Frankly Key needs to go – this country needs a stronger leader. He is far too hindered by his desire to be all things to all people. He needs to harden the fuck up and start becoming a National Leader – not a limp wristed Helen Clark clone. To be honest, I’d rather have Clark back – her and Key are cut of the same cloth, except at least Clark had some balls.
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April 7, 2010 10:34am
Banana Llama

They are all cut from the same cloth Bevan, no doubt we will get a strong leader at somepoint.
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April 7, 2010 10:46am
Bevan

Hu Jintao?
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April 7, 2010 11:06am
Banana Llama

^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQtrdFYDzCU
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April 7, 2010 11:14am
david

nickb (944) Says:
April 7th, 2010 at 10:24 am

What a sorry tale nick. The scary bit is when you consider how many times this is being repeated around the country.
“Accountability Managers” who are quite happy to not be concerned over amounts like $500K not being accounted for, no apparent deliverables, quite a few heads should be rolled over these. It also beggars belief that the amounts of dosh that are being dished out by DHBs in the name of race based health initiatives that are apparently used as slush funds for special interest groups and tribe members high in the food chain.
Democracy seems to have a special meaning when Maori organisations are involved
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April 7, 2010 12:04pm
edhunter

Just writing a letter to get one of my employees of jury duty & can’t help but think there has to be a better way, not only is he a vital cog in a very lean operation but he can ill afford to have a possible 2 weeks off work on the meagre $62.00 a day for the first week $80.00 per day after that. We close for xmas & he has a family so why should he use is annual leave to do jury duty.
Unless we want juries populated entirely by the retired, the redundant or the retarded the system needs an overhaul.
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April 7, 2010 1:19pm
bearhunter

Is there a moire depressing thing than opening your first payslip of the tax year and finding you’ve had even more money reefed out of your pocket than usual? No tax cut and an increase in ACC levies. Marvellous, fucking marvellous. At least Dick Turpin wore a mask.
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April 7, 2010 1:22pm
Jack5

Bevan at 11.08:

Hu Jintao?

Who Bevan?
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April 7, 2010 1:33pm
Ryan Sproull

No, no, Who’s on second.
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April 7, 2010 1:43pm
Banana Llama

Who’s on second?
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April 7, 2010 1:58pm
cha

First drop?.
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April 7, 2010 2:09pm
krazykiwi

It’s interesting to see an increasing number of States join the litigation against the US Federal Govt’s Obamacare legislation. The basis seems to be the unconstitutional impact of citizens being forced to buy health insurance.
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April 7, 2010 2:15pm
cha

Yet one of the authors at <a href=http://www.frumforum.com/<Frumforum writes that the GOP Will Repeal Health Reform Just Like Obama “Ended” the Iraq War
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April 7, 2010 3:17pm
LeftRightOut

Banana Llama (728) Says:

April 7th, 2010 at 10:46 am
They are all cut from the same cloth Bevan, no doubt we will get a strong leader at somepoint.

Ah yes, our own Pinochet. How neat.

Jakarta is coming.
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April 7, 2010 3:23pm
jaba

I see the Govt may sue those 3 fknuckles who caused $1mill damage at Waihopai .. get the bastds. I also note some Green wankers are having a go at the PM on his facebook page over mining/whaling .. why doesn’t he delete them??
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April 7, 2010 5:34pm
Bevan

Ah yes, our own Pinochet. How neat.

I’m surprised you mention Pinochet, and not Stalin, Mao or one of the many Left wing dictators…

Jakarta is coming.

You have mentioned this a few times LRO – if you have something to say about Indonesia, then bloody well say it. If you are just trying to make out you know something others dont then STFU.
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April 7, 2010 5:49pm
Viking2

Poor Waihopai spybase saboteurs welcome lawsuit
By Edward Gay with NZPA
Updated 6:25 PM Wednesday Apr 7, 2010

The acquitted Waihopai spybase saboteurs have welcomed news the Crown may try to sue them for $1.1 million for the damage done to government property, despite having about $1000 between them.

Taxpayers shafted again. Waste of money sueing these pricks.
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April 7, 2010 6:41pm
Hurf Durf

Billybonkers is just repeating that slogan off Spooks from a few series back. Or maybe Andrew Williams is planning a massive reveal? Who knows.

Why does the left bark on about a “nuclear-free world?” If the world did get stupid enough whereby every nuclear country got rid of their arsenals, I’d “find” some missiles stashed away some way/secretly restart development and hold the whole world to ransom. Why can’t the left understand that there is no utopia? Why can’t they understand there is no end? Idiots.
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April 7, 2010 7:27pm
kiwiteen

If you need an example why communism doesn’t work. Here you go
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April 7, 2010 8:42pm
philu

if you need an example why ‘freemarket’-capitalism dosen’t work:,,here you go..

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/the-only-way-to-survive-is-by-taking-care-of-one-another/

“..We’ve got to redefine democracy, that we have been stuck in concepts of representative democracy, that we believe that it’s getting other people to do things for us that we progress.

And I think that we’ve reached the point now where we’re stuck with a whole lot of concepts, so that when Michael Moore speaks about the number of people who make all this money and other people who don’t, it sounds as if we’re struggling for equality with them.

Who wants to be equal to these guys?

I think we have to be thinking much more profoundly.

Actually, if you go back to what Marx said in The Communist Manifesto over a hundred years ago, when in talking about the constant revolutions in technology, he ended that paragraph by saying ..

.. “All that is sacred is profaned, all that is solid melts into air, and men and women are forced to face with sober senses our conditions of life and our relations with our kind.”

We’re at that sort of turning point in human history..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 7, 2010 8:57pm
Stuart Mackey

Hurf Durf (1439) Says:
April 7th, 2010 at 7:27 pm

Why does the left bark on about a “nuclear-free world?” If the world did get stupid enough whereby every nuclear country got rid of their arsenals, I’d “find” some missiles stashed away some way/secretly restart development and hold the whole world to ransom. Why can’t the left understand that there is no utopia? Why can’t they understand there is no end? Idiots.
*************

When everyone gets rid of their nukes the risk of massive widespread conventional war goes up, because there is nothing holding it back. Which is why nations like nukes, once you have them you cannot be beaten, which is why everyone else wants them as well.
Whats really funny is that we had the chance to make ICBM based nuclear weapons obsolescent, with the missile shield system, but I guess the left likes nukes more than they care to admit and got those (declared)programmes cancelled.
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April 7, 2010 9:02pm
big bruv

And if you want an example of why Phool does not work…….
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April 7, 2010 9:02pm
nickb

Lol @ philu quoting Michael Moore, I mean seriously phil, you are scraping the bottom there.
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April 7, 2010 9:06pm
krazykiwi

My son is IM’ing a friend in Kyrgyzstan right now. Civil unrest. Schools being closed. Coup attempt or similar. 80 people hurt in one city (unsure which) and a Govt building had been taken over by an unknown group.
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April 7, 2010 10:26pm
krazykiwi

the-only-way-to-survive-is-by-taking-care-of-one-another

That wisdom is a bit rich coming from NZ’s #1 parasite. I’ve been taking care of your lazy ass for years.
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April 7, 2010 10:29pm
krazykiwi

Toad said:

“Actually, krazykiwi, the Greens don’t “line up in support of carbon trading”:

The Green Party believes that putting a price on greenhouse gases is desirable to reduce emissions, as well as to incentivise energy efficiency and renewables. Our strong first preference is for a carbon charge, recycled into income tax reduction for all taxpayers, and into funding carbon abatement. However there is currently little chance of this happening in NZ, so we will work to improve the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) put forward by Government.

And yet:

Green Party co-leader Russel Norman called on Key to reaffirm his government’s commitment to the ETS schedule.
“Any hint of a back-down from our already weakened ETS undermines our credibility on this important international stage,” he says.
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April 7, 2010 10:46pm
Pete George

Whats really funny is that we had the chance to make ICBM based nuclear weapons obsolescent, with the missile shield system

What is really funny is that some people actually thought a foolproof defence shield was possible. And even if it could be achieved it could prove to be just another Maginot Line.

Opponents could do something like carry out a non-military attack which lured a country’s forces outside it’s protected zone where they could be easily bogged down and bleed billions (of dollars).

In any case one country’s shield is not going to stop other countries wanting to take a different approach.
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April 8, 2010 7:28am

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