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March 8, 2010 1:00pm by David Farrar

Why so many people torrent

Taken from Geekologie. People may also like this similar link, on trying to use an e-book.

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Comment34

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Comments (34)

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gazzmaniac

Too true. It’s like the copyproof CDs you used to get – I had to rip them onto my hard disk and burn them to make them work in my car. Also why many of us prefer to use format shifting on purchased cds instead of buying online – DRM is a pain in the arse.
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March 8, 2010 1:18pm
RRM

Hear hear.

I would add QUALITY to why people pirate too. I am a regular Civic Video customer and have taken to washing all rental DVDs with the dishes before watching, this reduces (but sure as hell does not prevent) skipped tracks / bluescreen of death / etc etc.

(Rolling a Sony PS2 in one room and a basic Warehouse DVD player in the other FWIW)
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March 8, 2010 1:20pm
gazzmaniac

Also forgot to mention the stupid idea of DVD regions. It shouldn’t matter where you buy a disk, you should be able to play it. Otherwise we end up pirating it just to watch what we’ve bought. Thankfully there is now a crack for the damn DVD drive in my mac.
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March 8, 2010 1:22pm
KiwiGreg

I really really really HATE that stupid “you wouldnt steal a purse” ad that locally-bought DVDs make you sit through. It drives me insane and makes me want to go and burn 1000 copies to give away. Another reason for buying offshore.
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March 8, 2010 1:28pm
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

And the piracy ads are getting worse
I thought nothing would top the “if you download movies you are funding terrorism” ads
until the new one where the guy who bought the movie is having a good time with his friends and the guy downloading the movie is a sit-at-the-computer-watching-it-download loser.
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March 8, 2010 1:33pm
aardvark

Coincidence — I was just thinking this same thing last night as I tried to watch a “store bought” Stargate SG1 series on DVD.

The promos, the accusations of criminal activities and all the other crap finally pushed me over the edge.

I’ll rip these bloody disks to DVDR and watch the copies. If I’m going to be accused of a heinous crime like copying a DVD I’ve bought and paid for for my own personal use and not unlawful redistribution to others then I might as well do it.

And, if the movie industry association is reading this — I downloaded a car last week from a P2P network — so there!
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March 8, 2010 1:39pm
Put it away

Also you have to be able to find the DVD to buy it. I acquired a download of Duncan Jones excellent film “Moon” and liked it so much I decided to buy a legit copy, partly for the extras and partly to acknowledge and support the work of the filmmakers. Haven’t yet found a shop selling it…
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March 8, 2010 2:11pm
Jim

I really really really HATE that stupid “you wouldnt steal a purse” ad

Seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg
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March 8, 2010 2:14pm
Nigel Kearney

Because getting stuff without paying for it couldn’t possibly be sufficient reason …

Please stop peddling this argument that if someone won’t sell you their product in the format you want and at a price you are willing to pay, then it’s ok to just take it anyway. Nobody actually believes that except maybe some communists that are still out there. People are stealing this stuff because they know they can get away with it and then relying on the same kind of self-serving rationalization that other criminals use to help them sleep at night.

Downloading music is possibly not certain to be disastrous because musicians can make money by giving live performances. But if enough people download movies, TV shows and especially computer games then those things will just cease to exist as they will be uneconomic to make. Quite apart from the natural rights of property owners which I would have thought this blog might be inclined to respect.

[DPF: Some people will pirate regardless of what products is legally available. However if piracy is the only way to view a TV series, then it is no surprise many do.

Yes piracy is wrong, but business models such as regional segmentation are quite simply going to fail when instant copying is so easy]
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March 8, 2010 2:18pm
goonix

“And, if the movie industry association is reading this — I downloaded a car last week from a P2P network — so there!”

Bravo.
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March 8, 2010 2:19pm
KiwiGreg

“Please stop peddling this argument that if someone won’t sell you their product in the format you want and at a price you are willing to pay, then it’s ok to just take it anyway.”

Not my argument. I buy off Amazon rather than the local crap to avoid most of it. If I was IT savvy enough or not so damn lazy I would copy my legitimate local DVDs and use one of the overwrite programs to get rid of all the control crap (like I do on my laptop when I watch movies on it).
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March 8, 2010 2:21pm
Storm

A similar diagram was made for playing games published by Ubisoft – http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/9/2010/03/331e1a2630dee383b11cdebc1f3ce8d9/original.jpg

@Nigel – “Please stop peddling this argument that if someone won’t sell you their product in the format you want and at a price you are willing to pay, then it’s ok to just take it anyway. Nobody actually believes that except maybe some communists that are still out there.” – Crime statistics says otherwise.
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March 8, 2010 2:29pm
cabbage

@Put it away

Moon’s NZ release is March 10. Available at marbecks.
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March 8, 2010 2:34pm
Jim

“Because getting stuff without paying for it couldn’t possibly be sufficient reason …”

I think you miss the point. I don’t mind paying, and prefer to do so, but I still find all the anti-copying cruft thrown in rather patronising. Not to mention DRM, regions, etc.

Just because the movie industry is a business that does not make it smart. Plenty of big old businesses are plain stupid. They will eventually meet consumers wants or they’ll go the way of the dinosaurs.
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March 8, 2010 2:43pm
Tassman

I’m going for the latest i5-17 series with ATI or nVIDIA 3Gs HD graphics and loaded with an optical Blu Ray reader to ensure I don’t miss all the HD releases from now on. And I’m gonna try it out on home made movie for quality. Those download AVIs retain their quality from various sites and you’d never know the difference. Now I really don’t a TV..
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March 8, 2010 2:50pm
cabbage

I think you miss the point. I don’t mind paying, and prefer to do so, but I still find all the anti-copying cruft thrown in rather patronising. Not to mention DRM, regions, etc.

Agreed. If I have bought something, I find it not only patronising, but insulting to tell me not to steal it, before i can even use it.

Especially as if I’m going to steal it, I’m going to steal a version that has had such warnings removed.
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March 8, 2010 2:53pm
Fletch

Dammit Jim!
You beat me to posting that IT Crowd link.

I have sometimes downloaded the occasional Tv episode. If they can’t release episodes at nearly the same time in every country then it’s their own fault. It also doesn’t seem fair that they won’t release a TV series here on DVD until it is played on local TV. Why? So the advertisers can get their cut? Tough luck! If someone is willing to go into a store and spend the money to buy a TV show they should be able to, even if it hasn’t played on local TV here. I mean, you can just buy it from Amazon anyway so what’s the point in embargoing the series until it’s been seen on local TV.

They will have to face the fact soon that the free-to-air model supported by ads is not working very well.

As far as movies, I don’t download them. I am a real stickler for image quality and definition and can’t bear to watch a movie in horrid quality – I would rather buy it in the store or from Amazon.
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March 8, 2010 3:00pm
Fletch

ps, continuing my rant – what is it with local TV? The series Chuck is well into it’s 3rd season in the US and TV 2 here has just started re-running season 2 from last year? Why? And Season 2 is not even available on DVD.
The Mentalist is well into it’s 3rd season in the US as well, up to episode 15 I think. It’s a wonder we get to see anything here.
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March 8, 2010 3:06pm
Jeff83

My main bugbear is with the DRM they insist on puttin on music you download. Its totally retarded. Causes lots of issues, and if I need to reformat etc likely going to lose my collection.

Or I could get a higher quality file to begin with, for free. Its like wtf.

I buy NZ music, and go to concerts as much as I can, but am over supporting multinational companies which fail to get it. If I could legally buy non DRM music, at a reasonable price, at a decent quality, I would no questions asked. I just cant.
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March 8, 2010 3:07pm
Chris2

The fact that a then little-known Pauly Fuemana netted $11 million for his “How Bizarre” song (he got $5 million) and then a further $50,000 a year in royalties demonstrates that the entertainment industry has been overcharging punters for decades.
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March 8, 2010 3:10pm
Fletch

I hate the DRM as well. I bought an audiobook from audible.com recently and I downloaded the highest quality version only to find out that it won’t play on my 5th Generation iPod (although a lower bitrate version will, but it sounds awful to my ears). Luckily the best version will play on my iPhone, but still..
The only way I could listen on another device would be to first burn it onto blank CDs (15 of them!!!) and then rip it into iTunes again which would take god knows how long. Oh, and if the burn process fails, you’re out of luck because the DRM is set up to only allow you to burn one copy – so if you make a coaster you have to phone Audible so they can reset it or something.

FFS!
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March 8, 2010 3:11pm
gazzmaniac

Yes DRM is a pain in the arse. I prefer to buy a CD in a shop and rip it than put up with DRM. I also don’t mind DVDs that just go straight to the menu – it’s the ones that have ten minutes of shit first that annoy me, and yes I do find it easier to rip to DivX and play it off a memory stick than put up with ten minutes of shit just to watch a movie.
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March 8, 2010 3:36pm
KiwiGreg

“The fact that a then little-known Pauly Fuemana netted $11 million for his “How Bizarre” song (he got $5 million) and then a further $50,000 a year in royalties demonstrates that the entertainment industry has been overcharging punters for decades.”

I dont understand your logic. They are worth what you pay for them. You may as well say Coke overcharges for sugar and water.
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March 8, 2010 3:41pm
WTM

Actually Nigel, give me an option to download and pay for the tv series I watch, and I would happily pay…. as I do with my music and software.

The problem is that old system of controlling when and how a series is watched is redundant in a globalised world, at least even cinemas get it with near simultaneous release of movies, but seemingly not the tv industry.

Anyone can make a copy and put it up within a day, the only way to recoup any of those losses is to make it easier to pay and download…

…and as per the others, I now rip any dvd I do buy, so I don’t have to deal with the 5 minutes of rubbish before a show even starts.
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March 8, 2010 4:40pm
GPT1

This is a really good point. I do not particularly like pirating (and can’t drive a computer properly so temptation is low) but I do object to having done the right thing and bought the DVD (usually some months or years after the show/movie has been released) to be subjected to warnings about piracy that I can’t fast forward. Isn’t that a bit like locking the Nuns in at night to preach at them?
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March 8, 2010 4:43pm
peterwn

Do they pay the FBI royalties for using their name? Funny thing that the industry giants moan about IP ‘theft’ but quite happily indulge in protection racketeering by extracting licence fees by claiming that the fee payer is otherwise in breach of unspecified IP violations.
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March 8, 2010 4:52pm
Lance

What Gazzer wrote:

And it MIGHT be just bloody tolerable the first time I ever played it BUT every fuckin time the same shit pours forth.
A lesson on how to totally piss off your customer, then when you don’t think it could get any worse.. they make it so.
They add crap music they force you to listen to just to get past the accusations of stealing on a purchased DVD.

It seems idiotic to have to edit your own purchases so you can play the DVD on your own DVD player without unwanted intrusion.
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March 8, 2010 4:53pm
JiveKitty

@KiwiGreg “I dont understand your logic. They are worth what you pay for them. You may as well say Coke overcharges for sugar and water.”

People aren’t paying for them, apparently.
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March 8, 2010 4:54pm
Fletch

It’s not only the DVD TV series, it’s also the music used in the series that studios have trouble with when they want to release a box set. One obvious case is the TV show Fastlane which apparently has had all the hip music tracks replaced by generic rubbish because they couldn’t get the rights to use the originals.

I noticed this recently when I bought the Tv series Wiseguy. In the final episode of series one there is a standoff between Vince (Ken Wahl) and Sonny Steelgrave who are locked inside a theatre. In the original shown on TV there is a memorable part where Nights In White Satin plays on a dukebox – music only with the reactions on the actors faces. In the DVD set, it has been replaced by something generic and unsuitable.

So, some people prefer rather to download the original episodes as seen on TV with original music, rather than buy the set and put up with generic replacement tracks which don’t suit.
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March 8, 2010 5:11pm
BR

“Please stop peddling this argument that if someone won’t sell you their product in the format you want and at a price you are willing to pay, then it’s ok to just take it anyway. Nobody actually believes that except maybe some communists that are still out there.”

The people who are complaining the loudest about all this are the communists that have infiltrated the music and film industries.

Bill.
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March 8, 2010 5:59pm
menace

Just good to see the ruling in australia, that supported our privacy rights and ruled that the ISP’s are not responsible for what we do with there connections……………….
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March 8, 2010 6:17pm
JiveKitty

“Please stop peddling this argument that if someone won’t sell you their product in the format you want and at a price you are willing to pay, then it’s ok to just take it anyway. Nobody actually believes that except maybe some communists that are still out there.”

If I wanted to be a prick about it, I could probably make a fairly good case re: public goods, but I don’t think it’s an argument that is right on the whole.

I think the problem is more there’s a perception of prices being inflated greatly above what they should be, particularly in the music industry. The entertainment companies refused to move with the times and lower the prices as the market dictated they should, and have paid for that. Now even if they did lower their prices, they’d struggle to get back the consumers they’ve lost, so they’re seeking government intervention wherever they possibly can.

Another major problem the entertainment industry has is that it’s pushed disposability to the top of its agenda. Take the music industry, again, as an example, although you could just as easily take the film industry. The music industry has pushed singles to the forefront at the detriment of albums. Many people don’t tend to want to pay for an album which has a ton of filler and they only want the single anyway. Unfortunately the single is a disposable piece of entertainment, so by the time you get a comp album with a bunch of singles on it, there’s already another single which is flavour of the month, and you don’t necessarily want the other singles anyway. Sure, there are usually two or three singles for a major recording artist now, but people don’t like paying say $20 for three songs. Back in the day, you at least had bands working at creating whole albums. Hell, there were such things as concept albums.

iTunes (walled garden model to a degree) is doing okay, but with what the actual costs of transferring a song to the walled garden are there’s no way the price should be what it is (more than $1 per song, right?) for a lot of these songs (songs which are x number of years old should probably be significantly cut in price), but Apple wants to make a profit, and so does the record label. Added onto that, the artist wants a cut too. And people are not as favourably inclined towards albums as they once were, so I’d suspect the majority tend to cherrypick what they purchase from iTunes and other such models.

Interestingly, there seem to be a few more artists going direct to the public with their stuff and doing alright out of it. I suspect of those in this category, the majority would not be your average piece of fluff which the industry promotes (Britney Spears v. say Amanda Palmer, I suppose – although I don’t know if Palmer’s relationship with Roadrunner was fully and finally severed). The fans of the music are often, it seems, happy to contribute directly to an artist, but don’t want to have to do it through the major label, even if in some cases this means they pay more as an artist presumably loses some economies of scale.

I’ve also heard Netflix(?) is doing quite well in the States and with advances in technology, they’re expected to do even better.

I think it’s also worth noting that whatever figures for money lost are given in the entertainment industry, they’re fairly debateable. James Berardinelli, an online movie critic, makes some good points about this as well as the entertainment industry and the problems it’s facing.

Despite all this, I still buy CDs and DVDs as I do like having that product in my hand. I guess I’m just a materialist. That said, I’m very choosy about what I buy and how much I buy it at, probably more so than I used to be. But on the other hand I also try to go to a lot more concerts than I used to.
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March 8, 2010 8:08pm
Kieran_B

DRM is defective by design. Movies, music, video games and even e-books…..something is wrong with your business model when the pirated version of your product is of a higher quality.
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March 9, 2010 12:59am
jakejakejake

After so many bad experiences with buying unreturnable bug ridden trash video games I refuse to pay $100 without first downloading the full version and trying it out. I would maybe download the demo but kind of no point when I have a 20gb cap and most game demos now are about 2gb (full version maybe another gb or two). I pay $60 a month to keep 2 Eve Online accounts going so will happily pay if the game is worth it.
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March 9, 2010 11:53pm

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