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March 7, 2010 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 07 March 2010

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reid

Yes I thought some people’s mileage might vary on Cuba, I disagree, but it’s not germane anyway. Even if you think it doesn’t work, that just reinforces the point that its a lousy indeed unworkable form of government.
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March 7, 2010 4:36pm
Bryla

Bedrater old boy, I’m so glad you respect the democracy activists going on trial for Waihopai dome-busting this week, and that we can rely on your continuing support for the rule of Law.

We might disagree about the details, but you have a fundamental right to be wrong and out-dated. You stick to it man!
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March 7, 2010 4:42pm
Tauhei Notts

I have disregarded lots of, supposedly, crap written about how we are slipping behind Aussie.
Then I read the casual adult minimum retail worker’s wage rates in South Australia, which I converted to N.Z. currency at a .7812 conversion rate. Here they are; this is the full impact of how far we are behind the Ockers;
$25.41 per hour
Late night work $31.78 per hour
Saturday work $38.14 per hour.
This is becoming very serious.
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March 7, 2010 4:44pm
menace

whafe,

while it is my personal opinion that the maori have certainly had a bit of a raw deal from the europeans, i dont see why we cant live in much greater harmony than we currently do……..

and although im not exactly fond of people being reprosented on behalf of there ethnicity at a government level, im also a firm believer in democracy……

In answer to your question though, i think the government needs to move away from dealing with things on a race based level and just deal with the issues, it would be much more efficiant, effective and not carry the undertones it currently does, because unfortinatly its outcome is that our government is racsist..

But really the only thing that can fix racsism is at ground level, you, I and everybody has to behave and say things accordingly, we are all just ripples of the stone that was thrown……. 1 person tells 10 etc etc etc, dont send it round and it wont come round, thats the only thing that can fix it in my opinion, its an idevidual thing. And most peolpe just do what the others around them are doing.
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March 7, 2010 4:45pm
Pete George

” just what is so wrong with communism?”

It usually fails, whether on a country level or a small commune level. Too many people take advantage of equal benefits and freeload. And some can’t help “becoming” more equal than others.

Some examples may have worked and not self destructed. Does anyone know of any?
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March 7, 2010 4:53pm
menace

Tauhei Notts,

yes they have much more atractive legislated minimums there, im definatly going there way to pick some fruit next year.
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March 7, 2010 4:55pm
Redbaiter

” We might disagree about the details, but you have a fundamental right to be wrong and out-dated. You stick to it man! ”

Bryla, if there’s one thing that is not in short supply on the net it is the arrogant superiority and patronising advice of blinkered closed minded one dimensional and politically immature leftists. We sure as hell don’t need any more of it on Kiwiblog.
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March 7, 2010 5:04pm
Jack5

M-M-Mat McCarten in his leftist column in the Sunday Herald today talks of the Royal family being inbred (link below).

Mat should consider that Maori, descended from a dozen or so canoe loads, over 600 years or so to the arrival of Europeans, must have become one of the most inbred communities in the world, and it didn’t seem to harm them.

Tellingly, McCarten in his column praises the red blockhead Keith Locke. McCarten blasts feudalism, but doesn’t touch on the hereditary Maori king or hereditary chiefs of Maori tribes.

At least we could vote to abolish the British monarch from being our head of state. Can Maori vote out the Maori king, or vote out chiefs? Which structure then is more feudal?

Nevertheless, when you think about it, a constitutional monarchy, even a token one over an effective republic as in NZ, is a good fit with traditional Maori structure.

The link to McCarten’s column:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10630361
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March 7, 2010 5:08pm
Ryan Sproull

Does McCarten have a stutter?
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March 7, 2010 5:31pm
reid

The race issue will never be resolved by the application of one-man-one-vote. It’s as simple as that.

If we can’t get past that then this issue will linger until we do.

Some might see that the democratic principle is worth applying nevertheless. In that case, the simmering discontent will remain.

Question is: is that what we want or is it more important to treat this as a special instance where the normal rules don’t apply?

I mean face it. Maori won’t be happy until one-man-one-vote is set aside for them on the limited bases that have now and then been proposed, such as having Maori seats on the SuperCity.

You can argue until you’re blue in the face that they have no right to demand such and they shouldn’t get it because that violates the principle. I repeat, in that case, the discontent will never go away, and I ask again, is that what you want?

Some argue that this is a foot in the door and pretty soon the local PTA will be forced by law to have a Maori Sub-committee. I say that argument is false and while Maori will, like anyone would, try to push the boundaries, it’s always over to us – the majority – to stop that if they step too far.

If we don’t do this, then the problem remains, and is that what we want?
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March 7, 2010 5:46pm
grumpyoldhori

Cheney, what a fucking idiot, war with Russia, jesus christ the dumb bastard wanted to use the US air force to strike at the Russian troops while they were giving the Georgians a slapping for good reason.
Fuck, those Georgians should be bloody thankful the Russians did not level their capital.
As sure as hell any airfield that sent aircraft over Russia would have been hit and as the anti went up it would have ended in bright lights over Washington DC and Moscow.

Jeez, it seems dubya was the rational one over this.
http://blogs.ft.com/rachmanblog/2010/02/did-dick-cheney-want-to-start-a-war-with-russia/
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March 7, 2010 5:49pm
Robert Black

Sterilize all Maoris?

Now that idea has some legs.
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March 7, 2010 5:56pm
reid

Well hori you know why Russia did it, don’t you.

Israel was going to setup air bases there in order to bomb Iran. Both Israel and US troops were in there.

Russia of course being an ally of Iran wasn’t going to let that happen.

As usual the media doesn’t mention the Israeli connection.

How convenient, “fair and balanced.”

Bush didn’t want to help precisely because he knew what the Israelis were planning and he didn’t want the consequences in Iraq and Afghanistan if Israel bombed Iran: i.e. supply lines cut and thousands of marines as P.O.W.s or M.I.A.

The fact Israel was trying it on shows precisely the depth of respect she accords to her best friend in the world.
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March 7, 2010 5:58pm
Banana Llama

If you set aside one man one vote you would only trade one type of agitation for another Reid, i don’t see how it can ever go away as it is a generational and cultural issue, me personally i find the idea of appeasement distasteful. This idea that society can be harmonious through appeasement or social justice is a false one, shit will just end up like the Balkans sooner or later.
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March 7, 2010 6:07pm
grumpyoldhori

Reid, You have to ask who is the dumbest, Georgia for attacking a break away part of it’s country which was an ally of Russia.
Or, the Israelis for believing there would be no price to pay for trying to tweak Vlad the impaler.
Yes I understand there was Israeli troops in Georgia, I wonder what is Hebrew for run brothers imshi, as the Russian horde came over the Georgian border.
Oh, and against Russia Bush could not help, the Russians are nasty bastards who would use tactical nukes in Georgia on any USA forces joining the scrap.
Proves one thing, nukes do give a country immunity from a strike by the USA.
How soon until the latest and greatest Russian anti aircraft missiles arrive in Iran ?
Israel will over step one day, probably with Turkey, and end up getting a slapping.
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March 7, 2010 7:02pm
grumpyoldhori

Robert Black you are a dwarf in size compared to a hori are you not ?
Feeling lucky ?
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March 7, 2010 7:05pm
reid

“If you set aside one man one vote you would only trade one type of agitation for another”

Yes I accept that is an issue but not that it’s an insurmountable one. With careful expectation management from the start I think the process could be kept within acceptable-to-all boundaries.

I don’t see it as appeasement in the Neville sense. I see it as necessary realism, provided of course my core argument is correct: that there is no other way their simmering resentment is going to be dealt with.

Keeping to one-man-one-vote will mean they rarely have access to the inner circles of power. And that’s what they want. Not so they can dominate them, but merely so their voice can be heard.

I have found many instances where if Maori are meaningfully consulted, they are often quite happy to go along with the proposal. What they can’t stand is being told after the event.

I’m of course talking specifically about local boards, not national ones – they already have their own processes. It’s the local ones however where they most count because resent at a personal level begins and ends locally. A person may not like what happens nationally but they’re quite happy nationally. And vice versa.

My observation is that by dealing with the local issues you could also deal with a significant amount of that simmering resentment.
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March 7, 2010 7:10pm
Bryla

“if there’s one thing that is not in short supply on the net it is the arrogant superiority and patronising advice of blinkered closed minded one dimensional and politically immature bedraters. We sure as hell don’t need any more of it on Kiwiblog”

Exactly
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March 7, 2010 7:48pm
Pete George

Haha Bryan, you can do that with a lot of his posts, I think he may be oblivious to his self descriptiveness – he’s obviously not Australian, he keeps throwing boomerangs and has no idea what they do.
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March 7, 2010 8:00pm
Redbaiter

Oh look, Pete is so pleased, another of his sneering mungbean mates has shown up and he can’t wait to kiss his arse.
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March 7, 2010 8:31pm
Luc Hansen

so Burt,

Luc

Europeans spread around the world casually killing other species and peoples …

And every single island in the pacific was uninhabited before Polynesians found them – yawn… keep making it up as you go along bro!

Sure. So what’s your version?
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March 7, 2010 8:35pm
Pete George

Red, do you know that the “sneering mungbean” is actually here at the invitation on DPF? Some respect for your host might be in order, if that’s possible.
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March 7, 2010 8:36pm
Redbaiter

People have to earn my respect Mr. George. So far, this sneering hollow moron Bryla has not demonstated he’s worth one iota.

BTW, you need to get over yourself and this ” different sides of the same coin” rubbish. What you commies can never grasp is that we understand your ideology, whereas you have no idea of what Conservatism is about, so therefore we’re always going to be one step ahead in everything political.

Your comments here are always underpinned by ignorance, lack of comprehension and a misplaced sense of superiority, and that is a direct result of your single political experience and perspective.
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March 7, 2010 8:44pm
kowtow

Bryla, US embassy,politicising the sacraments. Your comments on their security are fatuous in the extreme.

The Americans have done more for religious and political freedom in the world than God knows who else has.

Mathew 21 . 15 to 22. Render unto Caesar and all that.

I hope the Crown case is strong and your mates go down.
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March 7, 2010 8:49pm
Hugh Manatee

“People have to earn my respect Mr. George. ”

Hahaha! A good laugh before turning in for the night. I’ll sleep well tonight, secure in the knowledge that there are comedians out there with the special gift of making us laugh!
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March 7, 2010 8:57pm
Robert Black

“Robert Black you are a dwarf in size compared to a hori are you not ?
Feeling lucky ?”

I dunno, I’m six feet.

But I take your point, if I was bigger and fatter I could sink more piss, eat more take-aways, smoke more drugs and be more violent without worrying too much about any harsh consequences.

When you put it that way, maybe I should have Maori genes.
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March 7, 2010 8:59pm
Redbaiter

Don’t forget you teddy bear. Infant.
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March 7, 2010 9:01pm
dad4justice

And make sure you let the bed bugs bite Hugh Munatit.
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March 7, 2010 9:03pm
Hugh Manatee

Robert Black, ” I dunno, I’m six feet.”

A stupid insect then?

Redbaiter and d4j wishing me sweet dreams – comedic duo!
I’ll sleep twice as deeply.

“You” teddy bear?

“Me” human!
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March 7, 2010 9:08pm
Redbaiter

So you weren’t going to bed. You Progressives can’t even be truthful about the most simple issues.
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March 7, 2010 9:10pm
dad4justice

“I’ll sleep twice as deeply.”

Take a cyanide pill and get back to me in the morning Hugh.
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March 7, 2010 9:13pm
Pete George

The one trick pony on cue Bryan:

Your comments here are always underpinned by ignorance, lack of comprehension and a misplaced sense of superiority, and that is a direct result of your single political experience and perspective.

Another boomerang.

What you commies can never grasp is that we understand your ideology, whereas you have no idea of what Conservatism is about, so therefore we’re always going to be one step ahead in everything political.

Facts never bother his boilerplate cut and paste. I own property and shares, I might have been in a union once (in one job for six months), and over the last twenty of have either owned businesses (two) or worked for small private companies. And the definition Red posted here indicates we have nothing like a communist state. He just needs phantom “enemies” to rant against.

can’t even be truthful about the most simple issues.
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March 7, 2010 9:13pm
Pete George

Great result for the Phoenix tonight, and what a crowd!
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March 7, 2010 9:20pm
Redbaiter

” Facts never bother his boilerplate cut and paste.”

Its your new buddy who doing the cut and paste. Of my text that he puts in quotes after he’s adulterated it. Clearly such unprincipled deceit is not something that bothers you, and after witnessing so much of your vulgar and desperate disrespect for decency on here, nor would I ever expect it to.
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March 7, 2010 9:21pm
Hugh Manatee

Redbaiter – “So you weren’t going to bed.”

Was and still am! (You Anti-Communists can’t recognise a true statement, even when it’s spelled out for you)

As to you, D4j (is that ‘Ditzy for Jesus’), the cyanide thing and ‘see me in the morning’, that’s high-comedy! I was right about you two clowns. Priceless! Do you have a youtube slot?
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March 7, 2010 9:23pm
Pete George

“Clearly such unprincipled deceit ” – at that you are the master, that’s what you do. He’s not my buddy any more than he is your’s, I don’t think I’ve agreed much at all with him except on your bullshit. Respect and decency are things you don’t seem familiar with – your host invites someone to comment here and you just abuse him. Isn’t that a bit pathetic?
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March 7, 2010 9:30pm
burt

Luc Hansen

Sure. So what’s your version?

My version is Embargoed till 2063

I wonder why they had to seal the evidence from that research into people here before the Polynesian “first people”. The pacific is littered with history, some destroyed, some locked up from public scrutiny.
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March 7, 2010 9:35pm
Luc Hansen

@Burt

Ha ha

I said to my wife that you will be on about either the Morioris or the Celtics.

Personally, I believe Jesus visited here before anyone, except his Dad and, of course, Satan.

Go on, prove me wrong!
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March 7, 2010 9:47pm
Redbaiter

HM- “Was and still am!”

Well fuck off then, and stop boring me by coming back. Worse than a damn three year old. And don’t forget your teddy. And have you had a wee wee?

PG- “Isn’t that a bit pathetic?”

What is pathetic is your obsession with making yourself the victim anytime there’s anything unpleasant said, when the truth is you oil your way around this blog in the most sly insipid manner saying all kinds of despicable things about other postersempt, always in the most cont. Why don’t you fuck off to bed too you sad insufferable creep.
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March 7, 2010 9:50pm
Redbaiter

posters and always in the most contemptible manner.
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March 7, 2010 9:51pm
Ryan Sproull

I can’t believe you guys are doing this while you could be watching Big Trouble in Little China on C4.
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March 7, 2010 9:56pm
Robert Black

@Luc Hansen

“I said to my wife that you will be on about either the Morioris or the Celtics.”

You discuss your little battled here with your wife.

Is it just me or that seem a bit lame…weird.

Does she high five you when you make a good point? Not so many high fives huh?

And one day, if you really make an excellent point she may give you something a little extra.
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March 7, 2010 9:57pm
Luc Hansen

# Robert Black (375) Says:
March 7th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

Sterilize all Maoris?

Now that idea has some legs

You know, Robert, that’s just not funny.

I notice no demerit points have been attached by DPF, yet, but I wonder how long it would take if I were to say: Sterilize all Jews? Now that idea has some legs! to get banned?

How the fuck do you survive in China with such a racist attitude?
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March 7, 2010 9:58pm
Robert Black

Well, seeing as the Chinese are rated as the most racist race in the world, it is not too difficult.
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March 7, 2010 10:03pm
Robert Black

The Chinese don’t use words like Caucasian or Polynesian or African American for someone who does not look and sound like a Chinese person, they use two words:

Laowai and waiguoren: both could be translated at best into foreigner at worst alien or outsider.

There was a girl from Xinjiang in a singing contest here who had to pull out as she got so much hate mail on the internet as she looked to un-Chinese and a little western, actually, she was hot.

You would have a field day over here Luc.

Come on over!
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March 7, 2010 10:12pm
burt

Luc Hansen

If Jesus was here then perhaps it was him that ate and/or enslaved the previous inhabitants so he could claim the land for himself – he was a white moterfucker after all and we know that they rape and steal land, Hone told us so.
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March 7, 2010 10:12pm
WebWrat

# LeftRightOut (244) Says:
March 7th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

Redbirther, while I don’t accept for a minute that Obama is a communist, just what is so wrong with communism?

It is an excellent model for economic prosperity and wealth sharing, unrivalled by the crapitalist dog eat dog system.

……………………………………

How can anyone believe this shit!!!!
God help us.
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March 7, 2010 10:15pm
Whafe

Yep WebWrat, God Help Us……… Way scary, in fact fucken scrary..
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March 7, 2010 10:21pm
Ryan Sproull

Did anyone in Auckland just see that thing in the sky? Maybe a low-orbit satellite, looked bright orange and kind of flickery. Went from northwest to northeast.
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March 7, 2010 10:40pm
Bryla

Pete George, I don’t worry too much about the Bedrater type. Apart from abuse, and broadcasting his own ignorance, there won’t be very much to him. No substance. No substantial achievement. And he believes he can disguise an inability to think by giving himself the label “conservative”.

I am a conservative.

Bedrater is a radical fuckwit.
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March 8, 2010 12:20am

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