General Debate 9 February 2010

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CharlieBrown

Was anyone else horrified that this couple who beat to death a disabled women and dumped her body in a river is only being charged with manslaughter? Is it so difficult to get a murder conviction that the cops don’t bother anymore? The definitions around what is murder needs to be severly loosened to include these sorts of cases. For goodness sake, I could get in a pub fight and knock someone to the ground and have him die from the injuries and get charged with the same crime these people have.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10624909
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February 9, 2010 7:09am
Whafe

I wait with anticipation as to what John Key will discuss at 2 in the PM today……
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February 9, 2010 7:14am
Chicken Little

Great to see Aria get her chance after only 2 months.

My beautiful little niece has been waiting 4 years at another US hospital town. Her transplants are similar ( swap kidney for bowel) but at the end of the day it’s the luck of the draw.

I’m wishing Aria a great and long future.
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February 9, 2010 7:15am
jcuknz

Years ago I remember the chief of our road transport authority saying that road safety was not a game but many stupid NZ drivers treated it as such … bad luck that you get a speeding or parking ticket, not foolish behaviour. It seems that it has changed with radar emitters being supplied to local authorities to ‘fool’ radar owning drivers to slow down. Perhaps they should also fit yellow flash disks to speed camera boxes. The radars won’t bother me though, I don’t have a radar detector in my car, I just try to obey the law.
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February 9, 2010 7:16am
LC

I too await John Keys speech. Lifting the economy is the main goal.

Will we see GST increased?
Will depreciation on rental housing be cancelled?
Will a land tax be introduced?

None of which will lift the economy at all.
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February 9, 2010 7:32am
KiwiGreg

@ LC probably, yes, no. Also expect rhetoric aorund rate alignment. But not necessarily today, go to leve Bill something to say come May.
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February 9, 2010 7:33am
LC

Ok Kiwi, I am of course surprised that increasing taxes can lead to lifting the economy.
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February 9, 2010 7:41am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

On Stuff this morning
“One option would mean the $1 city-section fare would be replaced by an increased one-zone cash fare of $2. That would effectively mean inner-city bus passengers were facing a 50 per cent increase in bus fares. ”

Fail
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February 9, 2010 7:44am
Murray

Theres a point at which DPF’s apparent coverage of flag “debate” ceases to be observation and just becomes mastabation in a closed circle jerk off.

That point was about five of six posts back.

Like John Ansell, the Herald and other unceover Republicans they only talk about what they want without reference to the vast majority who have no interest in their agenda.

[DPF: 20 demerits. And for the record *my* blog is not just about coverage. It is about me being able to state my views on whatever issue I want, and if you want to call me offensive names do so on your own blog – blogs are not neutral media]
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February 9, 2010 8:12am
KiwiGreg

@ Murray well it IS his blog, he can talk about whatever he wants. Your only real sanction is to stop reading it. But I’m also over it, it was and is a non-issue and if the government has spent 1 minute on it they have spent 1 minute too long.
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February 9, 2010 8:30am
LC

$1 to $2 is a 100% increase in fares, not 50%.
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February 9, 2010 8:44am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

I know
that was my point
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February 9, 2010 9:14am
MikeNZ

http://www.independentworldreport.com/2010/02/vs-sharia/

We mustn’t complain too much about our laws as others have it worse off than us?
Nope.
We must fight for proper sentencing and turf out both parties and individuals who don’t listen.
We have great blessings here and must fight to make them better for the victims of crime and their families.
It’s utter bullshit that the judiciary can give permanent name suppression to someone because of the risk of damage to their lives because of their offending. utter crap and we must deal to it and those ministers who won’t change it.
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February 9, 2010 9:14am
Angus

Great 2010 Super Bowl ad – The Green Police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq58zS4_jvM&feature=player_embedded

H/T – Ian Wishart
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February 9, 2010 9:37am
pdm

chicken little are you related to Matisse?
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February 9, 2010 9:43am
jackp

John Key is at it again. Another “closed door” session with Maori over the Foreshore and Seabed just like the ETS. Shouldn’t he just let the courts decide and that way it would be more transparent? The access to beaches is a smokescreen. What Maori are really after are the seabeds, the amount of minerals and commerce coming out of that is worth billions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10624985

Act has to step up their “act” because things are going to get pretty crazy. Not looking forward to Key’s speech.
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February 9, 2010 9:54am
Chicken Little

pdm – yes, my niece. They’re still waiting.
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February 9, 2010 9:54am
pdm

Yes I know Cl. My cousin in Pittsburgh has become a very good family friend and my eldest daughter went through high school with Matisses mother. It is also probable that you and I know each other if you are on the maternal side of the family – CHB College in the early 60’s? Email me on nig_dids@hotmail.com if you like.
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February 9, 2010 10:00am
pdm

cl I just realised I probably won’t know you but I do know Matisses grandmother and also other family members. If you did go to CHB College then you will robably know my three daughters who went there in the 80’s and early 90’s.
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February 9, 2010 10:06am
LeftRightOut

Free Speech only at the whim of NZ Police

Today’s Press carries a story of a group of students setting up a Facebook page to oppose their new Principal’s actions. NZ Police say “People need to be very careful about what they say in a public domain.”

Really? Are the NZ Police now the sole arbiters of free speech?
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February 9, 2010 10:24am
Fletch

I see that support for Aussie PM Kevin Rudd’s ETS is taking a dive even as they try to “ram it through Parliament”.
So, which countries have adopted an ETS scheme?

Apart from New Zealand and a limited European Union scheme, no other country has yet adopted an ETS

Yep, New Zealand has stepped up once again to be first among idiots.
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February 9, 2010 11:07am
Dirty Rat

Murray

Well said.

Tomorrow, why John Key will be justified in raising tax
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February 9, 2010 11:21am
LC

NZ Herald states that there will be bold steps in his programme, and that he will be using up some of his political capital. So who do you think he will upset? The 40% of families that don’t pay tax, or the 60% who do?
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February 9, 2010 11:30am
Johnboy

He certainly won’t be upsetting the 15% who classify themselves as Maori even if one of them is called Hone.
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February 9, 2010 11:37am
LC

Well Johnboy, I would put that 15% into the 40% so it must be the 60% who will be affected. Damn.

Hope he doesn’t use the phrase ‘think of the children’ in his speech.
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February 9, 2010 11:43am
Jack5

New topic for a minute if I may…

Fasten your seat belts passengers, severe turbulence ahead. The Financial Times reports the biggest currency gamble yet, with speculators betting USD7.6 billion in 40,000 contracts that the euro will dive because of the Greek debt crisis. The link below may give access to the Financial Times article (it charges but usually gives so many free accesses a month, so you may have to register).

Meanwhile in NZ, Bro. Key goes into an even bigger gamble for generations of Kiwis to come. I’m not talking about today’s tax news, but about the secret talks between Government and Maori on the foreshore and seabed (that is secret to white NZers).

The real stakes, of course, are whether Maori, rather than all NZers, get ownership of offshore gas, oil, and the big deposits of methane hydrate, or “fire ice”. This is methane trapped in ice-like crystals on the ocean floor, now being hailed by some as a potential huge source of energy round the world. Unfortunately,no-one knows how to extract the methane economically, and may never. If they do, the dreamers reckon it will be great because the fire ice can be shipped round the world in ordinary ships. Unfortunately for NZ, the world’s ocean floors hold trillions of tonnes of this stuff, and any refineries will use the nearest supply, and NZ is on the wrong side of the world. As for offshore gas, it’s in relatively small pockets, too small to justify liquefaction plants, and there is little or no local market ashore. Offshore oil? So far small, and so far most of the suitable geological structures around the NZ ocean floor, contain gas rather than oil.

The Government seems to have been talking up NZ’s supposed mineral wealth largely on the basis of fire ice and the billions of tonnes low-grade brown coal in Southland. Could this talk have been directed at Maori ears? Heh Bro’s, take a slice of royalty on all this (pie-in-the-sky) ocean-floor wealth in return for some guarantee of public access to beaches for non-Maori NZers?

Bro Key, one of the great forex traders of current times, will be sorry he is missing out on the big euro play, but perhaps he’s getting his adrenalin fix from betting the whole of NZ’s democratic future in a play with those Maori who seek an economic-apartheid future for the country. Perhaps someone in his team is priming the market with hints of access to vast offshore “wealth” plus some minor bait like Maori-fication of English-language place names in NZ. The State-guaranteed, deposit free, Kiwibank housing loans without accompanying mortgages being made available to Maori are another example.

Politicians with their three-year mandate, are short-game gamblers. Time is quite quickly merging Maori and Pakeha NZers. If the Maori Party could be stalled for two generations — 40 years — NZers would wonder what all the current fuss was about.

The big play:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0330ba78-149f-11df-9ea1-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1
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February 9, 2010 11:46am
Johnboy

LC: Good point re:the 40%. 🙂

Perhaps he will really go for the heartstrings and use the phrase. “Oh the humanity”. 🙂
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February 9, 2010 11:50am
Hagues

Phil Goff should make this guy his permanent speech writer…

http://www.act.org.nz/news/the-speech-that-goff-should-deliver
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February 9, 2010 11:54am
KiwiGreg

@ JAck and 40,000 contracts where people bought that bet. For every seller there is a buyer.
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February 9, 2010 11:56am
Jack5

KiwiGreg (11.56)….

That’s true, KiwiGreg, but still, in total, this is the biggest ever short position on the euro, and with Greece in trouble, this is quite ominous.

Also, you can be on the opposite side as officials trying to stabilise a currency, as well as someone trying to make money.
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February 9, 2010 12:00pm
Fletch

Brian “Head” Welsh talks about overcoming his addiction to “P”, leaving band Korn, and finding God; talking about the difference it has made in his life.

LINK
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February 9, 2010 12:05pm
Jack5

More kudos for a great New Zealander, a great Maori. I haven’t seen this in our NZ MSM.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/7188520/Soprano-Dame-Kiri-Te-Kanawa-to-get-lifetime-achievement-award-at-Classical-Brits.html
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February 9, 2010 1:25pm
KiwiGreg

As someone else has pointed out, Greece has a population of about the Los Angeles area and a much smaller economy. It’s unlikely to bring down the EU or have a long term impact on the Euro.
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February 9, 2010 1:30pm
Repton

NZ Police say “People need to be very careful about what they say in a public domain.”

Really? Are the NZ Police now the sole arbiters of free speech?

We don’t have completely free speech, and nor should we.

Cameron Slater is on trial at the moment for what he said in the public domain. He may yet be found innocent, but it’s still an example of an area in which you don’t have free speech.

And, of course, I’m pretty sure we have libel laws.

The police aren’t the sole arbiters, but they decide whom to charge. If they’re telling you to be careful, then it might be wise to pay attention, unless you want to be a test case.
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February 9, 2010 1:50pm
grumpyoldhori

Damn, it is amusing, every time I mention putting the all beaches and foreshore in crown hands some right winger is against it.
They go about property rights, Hmm, they are are confused are they not ?
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February 9, 2010 2:10pm
KiwiGreg

“And, of course, I’m pretty sure we have libel laws.”

Pretty sure libel is a civil not criminal matter
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February 9, 2010 2:17pm
big bruv

Key is just about to deliver his “state of the nation” address, this could be the beginning of the end for Neville if he does not move away from the Labour lite policies of this National Socialist government.

I am not sure if many Kiwis realise just how important it is that Key gets this right, we simply cannot keep going on as we are.

I do not remember a time when I have been so on edge about Neville Key’s “vision” for NZ, it is time for a change, it is time for new thinking, the trouble is that I have not seen anything in Key as yet that would make me think Key is the man to make those changes.
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February 9, 2010 2:22pm
LeftRightOut

KG, there is libel, which is a civil matter, and then there is criminal libel which is a …., well, it comes under the crimes act IIRC.

I would be interested in hearing Repton’s justification for “We don’t have completely free speech, and nor should we.”

I can think of very, very few cases where I would be happy to see speech suppressed.
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February 9, 2010 2:22pm
Pete George

I am not sure if many Kiwis realise just how important it is that Key gets this right, we simply cannot keep going on as we are.

Depends a bit on what his approach today is. It could be:
– pretty much exactly as they think they will act in the budet
– testing the waters with a range of moderate proposals so they can monitor the reaction without getting burned
– overstate their case so when the budget is more moderate people are relieved it wasn’t so bad after all

But you and a million others are right, this is a major test for National.
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February 9, 2010 2:30pm
Jack5

KiwiGreg (1.30 post), you sound like a locked-in Kiwi forex trader, or like one of the more bullish trading bank economists. Let’s hope you optimists are right, but perhaps it’s a case of hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Market watchers are now talking of problems for the euro zone’s PIGS — Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain.

From the Wall Street Journal about an hour ago:

…. The SovX Western Europe index, which lets investors buy or sell default insurance on a basket of 15 sovereigns, was at 1.125 percentage point late in the European day, according to index owner Markit, compared with Friday’s closing level of 1.06 percentage point. The index moved above a full percentage point for the first time on Thursday.

…Portugal’s sovereign CDS were at 2.42 percentage point, Greece’s were at 4.30 percentage point, and Spain’s at 1.73 percentage point, Markit data showed. All were wider compared with Friday’s closing levels.

And from a Wall Street Journal story earlier today:

…Greece is only the worst of the offenders against economic probity and it may not be the only country to require a bailout. The euro, which not so long ago harbored grandiose dreams of being a reserve currency, now looks sickly…
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February 9, 2010 3:34pm
Jack5

Re Grumpy’s 2.10…

If all foreshore was in Crown property that obviously should include all the finance company robbers’ beachfront lairs. Keeping these, other houses, hotels, shops etc off the foreshore and well back of the high water mark is sensible tsunami protection in an earthquake-prone country like NZ.

Crown ownership would also stop rich greenies, newly settled in gentrified streets in working ports, from forcing relocation of cranes, container storage, wharves, etc. Can’t have the sounds of industry intruding on Greenies’ serenity.
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February 9, 2010 3:44pm
Pete George

Abstinence Education Done Right

The ongoing debate over sex education has been rekindled by a provocative new study suggesting that teaching abstinence can delay the start of sexual activity among inner-city youngsters — if it is freed from the moralistic overtones and ideological restrictions that were the hallmark of abstinence-only programs under the Bush administration.

The only program that successfully delayed the start of sexual activity was the abstinence-only instruction. By the end of two years, only a third of the abstinence-only group had engaged in sexual intercourse compared with almost half of the control group.

It did not advocate abstinence until marriage but urged students to wait until they were more mature. It encouraged abstinence as a way to eliminate the risk of pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, had youngsters draw up lists of the pros and cons of sexual activity, and taught strategies for resisting pressure to have intercourse.
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February 9, 2010 4:41pm
Luc Hansen

An enchanting few moments this afternoon when I turned the sprinkler hose on to our well-fruiting fig tree, and we watched as a monarch butterfly arrived almost immediately and made many passes through the water, at one stage alighting on a leaf and basking in the light spray.
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February 9, 2010 5:11pm
Jack5

Almost a haiku about the monarch, Luc Hansen (5.11), and we thought you were a republican.
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February 9, 2010 5:37pm
Hurf Durf

Nothing excites me more than Auckland’s antiquated electricity grid.
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February 9, 2010 6:58pm
Jack5

Further in response to Kiwigreg’s 11.58 scepticism about pressure on the euro.

Telegraph UK headline (see link below): Greek Ouzo crisis escalates into global margin call as confidence ebbs

The report under the headline says the external debt of the PIIGS – Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain – plus those of EU Eastern European members now top two trillion euros.

The link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7182739/Greek-Ouzo-crisis-escalates-into-global-margin-call-as-confidence-ebbs.html
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February 9, 2010 7:45pm
Robert Black

Just saw Robin Brooke’s weak Close-up interview.

He was smiling when he said he could not remember it.

Like, you know, we have all been there?

Ya right we have all had memory loss but not all of us have groped a 15 year old and then assaulted a boy afterwards for trying to defend her and in a foreign country.

And really having the Walrus interview him?

Could he be less effective with his usual “Now look here Robin Brooke…?”

I mean his questions always sound read out for a start.

At least he picked up on the bully aspect I suppose. Scary to think this dick has two daughters of his own. And what’s with the cross dressing? Another Kiwi homophobe for sure.

Anyway, good job to the Kiwi lawyers in prepping the retarded Robin Brooke into looking half credible.

But having admitted to not recalling anything he is fucked now in his Australian law suit.

Justice after all for the creep.
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February 9, 2010 10:33pm
Bok2

Yep
Will all those defenders of Brooke come back and explain this…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10625161&pnum=2

No she was a lair with a fat socialist dole bludging single mother or something … Viking2?
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February 10, 2010 12:41am

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