General Debate 4 February 2010

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mickysavage

What is this?

Preferential treatment for maori over pakeha?

And a good old fashion case of corruption?

Shouldn’t you guys be like rioting on the streets or something?
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February 4, 2010 8:39am
gravedodger

Sports jocks should be wary of calling the win over Bangladesh any thing other than predictable. The Deshis were pathetic and thats generous.
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February 4, 2010 8:39am
Pete George

I wouldn’t hold that one against Bangladesh, they had two days of rain to prepare for playing in NZ conditions.
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February 4, 2010 8:44am
Murray

We have jobs mickey.

Its a bitch having to pay for everything on the wish list of sick lame and lazy commies. You go riot, we’ll watch.
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February 4, 2010 8:45am
Don the Kiwi

You should know all about corruption , mickeysavage.

Your mighty leader Heilen Klark ran the most corrupt govt. in this country’s history.
You should be full of praise for these people following her lead.
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February 4, 2010 8:54am
Banana Llama

Riot? why would i want to go smash up someones private property and assault honest policeman.
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February 4, 2010 8:57am
Pete George

It should be noted that after a fairly gnarly first couple weeks followed by one of gloom we have had two weeks of brilliant summer weather, in the south anyway. Hot inland, warm and sunny on the coast – very pleasant working temperature, and ideal for the Masters Games.
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February 4, 2010 8:59am
Brian Smaller

Pete and grave dodger – NZ shouldn’t be too cocky. We have been on the receiving end of a few canings over the years.
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February 4, 2010 9:04am
petal

“Preferential treatment for maori over pakeha?”

Excellent. About time.
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February 4, 2010 9:05am
Pete George

Yes I know Brian, if the Caps get too cocky they could easily get bitten on their cricketing bum. We were close to embarrassment in Bangladesh last year.
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February 4, 2010 9:08am
Murray

You approve of apartheid petal?
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February 4, 2010 9:12am
Chicken Little

It should be noted that here on the east coast of the north we have had shite weather for the last 30 days. Instead of our usual 28 – 30 degrees we’ve had 21 -23 with almost continuous rain or drizzle, high humidity and non stop easterlies which has resulted in the worst tomatoes in years, if not ever. They’re the Greens worst nightmare, stunted, shriveled things with the malevolent outlook of a long time Labour supporter. I’m expecting them to grow frogs legs before the summer is out.

I personally think the crap weather should just stay down south, were it belongs.
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February 4, 2010 9:18am
Pete George

Haha Chicky, you are stuck with it, due to warming we are enjoying better weather, but the crap has to go somewhere.
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February 4, 2010 9:31am
Johnboy

Micky: I’m happy for Minto to riot on my behalf over discrimination against Whiteys as long as he can lay his hands on a new megaphone.
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February 4, 2010 10:03am
Captain Neurotic

DPF – Please reinstate the ‘edit’ function and if possible the ‘karma’ buttons?!
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February 4, 2010 10:47am
William J

I see Claire Curran has another of her classic ‘pot calling the kettle black’ blogs on Red Alert. This time saying the Government should stop Telecom from making people redundant. So naive!
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February 4, 2010 10:52am
Pete George

Captain, sometimes you need to refresh the page for Edit to work.
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February 4, 2010 10:57am
kowtow

Talking of weather.Here’s an idea. February is generally the best summer month so that’s when the school holidays should be .Get a couple of stat hols for Christmas and New Year, move the school hols to last week of Jan thro to 1st week of March.

Instead of changing the flag change something that needs to be changed. The reason we do it this way is to incorporate the Holy and Happy seasons like in Northern hemi. This could please the indigene types who always want to do somfing different .
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February 4, 2010 11:26am
stephen

if possible the ‘karma’ buttons?!

KB is probably richer for not having people pressing karma buttons instead of making an argument. Not that everyone here makes arguments, but still.
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February 4, 2010 11:26am
stephen

Unemployment at 7.3%

Statistics NZ says the increase in unemployment was mainly due to a rise in the number of people entering the labour force but unable to find work.

Who are these people? Students?
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February 4, 2010 11:29am
Pete George

Don’t know if it’s coincidental to the absence of karma buttons or not but there seems to have been a lot less troll gang attacks over the last month or two.

What I miss most about the karmas not being here is not being able to check thread activity – a “views” counter would be a good substitute.
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February 4, 2010 11:30am
stephen

Don’t know if it’s coincidental to the absence of karma buttons or not but there seems to have been a lot less troll gang attacks over the last month or two.

Eh i don’t know what you mean exactly by troll gang attacks (nice visual) but less flame wars with no philu here, definitely. Redbaiter tries and tries but people seem to have a higher resistance to him than philu!
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February 4, 2010 11:46am
pentwig

stephen

The phool was/is an out and out troll vermin, soliciting hits from KB for his own blog. Just a whore.

Redbaiter has a thinking mind and stands up to his beliefs.

Whether or not we agree with him is irrevelent, but at least he does express them.
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February 4, 2010 12:01pm
Tim Ellis

Mr Savage, obviously Orewa was racist, unless Mr Goff does it.
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February 4, 2010 12:02pm
stephen

phil was pretty whore-ish, pretty much pissed me right off. Stands up for himself too but then it just gets messy.

As for Red, best not to start 😀

Meh!
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February 4, 2010 12:08pm
Redbaiter

Stephen take you petty and infantile and off topic personal attacks elsewhere please.
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February 4, 2010 12:10pm
stephen

I’ll try to be more on topic in General Debate next time 😀 😀
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February 4, 2010 12:50pm
William J

Red Alert have engaged a new way to refuse publication of any comments they find challenging. Instead of banning you or deleting your comments they just don’t publish your comments at all and state ‘your comment is awaiting moderation’. All the pro-Labour comments made since I sent through my post this morning have been published – but mine is still ‘awaiting moderation’. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

‘Talk to Telecom Steven Joyce’ – Red Alert Post

William J says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
February 4, 2010 at 10:49 am
My God – you are so so naive Clare. Lesson One: Believe it or not the Government can’t control the internal management decisions of private companies. Lesson Two: Private companies are obliged to look after their shareholders interests first and foremost. Lesson Three: Over the last nine years Telecom has had a ‘rolling redundancy’ policy – continually making thousands of people redundant in small batches. It is estimated Telecom made over 5,000 people redundant in the past 9 years. Lesson Four: Ask the previous Government what they did about it. Lesson Five: You are the previous Government!
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February 4, 2010 1:09pm
calendar girl

“KB is probably richer for not having people pressing karma buttons instead of making an argument.”

Stephen, that’s a comfortable view for a person of your obvious intellect (and possessing an ability to express himself well). Not everyone is quite so fortunate, and we should be wary of listening only to those who feel that they are capable communicators.

Some who struggle to articulate a strongly-held view may “make their view known” by aligning themselves with – or against – views expressed by other contributors. And thereby feel that they are making their own small contribution to the debate. Such people should not be excluded. After all, each of them can choose to be involved directly by making a simple mark on a ballot box at election time.
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February 4, 2010 1:11pm
Pete George

c girl, the karmas were only partly useful. It was obvious quite a few scored the person rather than the comment. And they scores were fiddled at times.
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February 4, 2010 1:22pm
Redbaiter

” I’ll try to be more on topic in General Debate next time”

Straight personal abuse is never on topic. You simpering smug little fuckwit.

Heh heh.
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February 4, 2010 1:25pm
Johnboy

Thanks for clearing that up PG I always thought that your low scores were due to you talking shit.
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February 4, 2010 1:30pm
Pete George

Not everyone thought that all the time Johnboy. And you?
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February 4, 2010 1:32pm
stephen

CG,

This isn’t a huge issue for me, but since there’s nothing else to complain about…

Can’t say I ever thought of it that way. I think there’s a big difference between voting and karma due to the respective consequences of those actions. Agree with PG to an extent (can’t really prove anything he said, really) – philu could write ‘I like kittens’ and he’d be 10 down before you can say ‘and kittens like me’ though don’t know what he’s referring to with the scores being fiddled…
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February 4, 2010 1:36pm
Brian Smaller

if possible the ‘karma’ buttons?!

KB is probably richer for not having people pressing karma buttons instead of making an argument. Not that everyone here makes arguments, but still.

I would have probably given you negative karma for that.
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February 4, 2010 1:46pm
Pete George

Sometimes the scores on some posts (and posters) seemed out or proportion to the activity – sometimes it was probably valid but sometimes it didn’t add up. I tested it once, pushed up my karma and the negatives started following at a time there was hardly any activity on the blog. So like any online polls the karma were indicative but not something to swear by.

Another common example was when someone who had been deemed a leftie posted a comment and got downed, then someone else more “acceptable” to the crowd later posts the same point and got upped.

And Brian would just do it to be a smart arse 🙂
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February 4, 2010 1:48pm
stephen

I would have probably given you negative karma for that.

Ah shazzbut

I wouldn’t be any wiser as to why i got it though.
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February 4, 2010 1:48pm
stephen

…and nor would anyone else, I suppose.
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February 4, 2010 1:51pm
Viking2

So “Hone” key is reported to have said this day that he is going to attack the privileged “rich pricks” who own rental houses.
Someone should tell him he is speaking about something like 500.000 voters, many who unwisely voted him into power. (340000 rental houses privately owned in this country each with at least one but mostly two owners.)
Now even Helen wasn’t that mindlessly stupid.
I dis-pear at the brain power of the executive of NZ.

Better he attacked the rort that is parliamentary electorate offices and many of the other rorts that he and his moneyed mates get up to.
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February 4, 2010 2:01pm
Tauhei Notts

Auckland’s Volcanic Cones
I note that they are to be handed back to Maori interests.
Will the hand back of those volcanic cones be similar to the hand back of Mount Tarawera?
If not, why not?
There is an interesting kick in my questions that will be brought to light once I get an answer.
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February 4, 2010 2:04pm
KiwiGreg

“he and his moneyed mates ”

…because in New Zealand “rich” or “well off” are actually insults
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February 4, 2010 2:04pm
stephen

“…So “Hone” key is reported to have said this day…”

Where was this reported?
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February 4, 2010 2:08pm
Ryan Sproull

KiwiGreg,

I was stuck on trying to figure out if “Hone” was intended as an insult.
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February 4, 2010 2:10pm
alex Masterley

I heard him speak this morning, and he said nothing of the kind. Going on what he said would exepct that the budget will make adjustments to depreciation claims on rental properties but cgt and land tax will be off the agenda.
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February 4, 2010 2:54pm
RightNow

Pachauri: from climate fiction to climax fiction.
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February 4, 2010 3:00pm
MikeNZ

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=driving-on-glass-solar-roads

think we’ve got enough sun here for this?
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February 4, 2010 3:49pm
nickb

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3293982/Harawira-warned-over-making-money-on-flag

Oh what a surprise.
And the Maori Party has the gall to bang on about their people being in poverty when this sort of behaviour goes on. How this moron is in our Parliament, I don’t know. A national disgrace
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February 4, 2010 4:18pm
Kris K

calendar girl 1:11 pm,

“KB is probably richer for not having people pressing karma buttons instead of making an argument.”

Stephen, that’s a comfortable view for a person of your obvious intellect (and possessing an ability to express himself well). Not everyone is quite so fortunate, and we should be wary of listening only to those who feel that they are capable communicators.

Some who struggle to articulate a strongly-held view may “make their view known” by aligning themselves with – or against – views expressed by other contributors. And thereby feel that they are making their own small contribution to the debate. Such people should not be excluded. After all, each of them can choose to be involved directly by making a simple mark on a ballot box at election time.

Absolutely agree, CG.

I think many, many more read KB than do submit written comments.
As you said; Karma was often the only way they could/would contribute.

I often reflect that someone may have made a good comment, followed by several others (usually left wingers, etc) who attacked that person. Without karma you might have thought the individual had ‘lost’ the argument. But if you added in karma the individual may have got 30+, whereas each of the several detractors got say 20- each.
Suddenly you had a totally different perspective as to who had ‘won’ the point.

I really do hope DPF reinstates karma for these reasons.
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February 4, 2010 4:28pm
Kris K

Pete George 1:22 pm,

c girl, the karmas were only partly useful. It was obvious quite a few scored the person rather than the comment. And they scores were fiddled at times.

Only if the individual concerned was being a dick about things – like thrashing a dead horse a la Luc Hansen, and sometimes you, Pete.
But I recall, if you made a well reasoned comment, you receiving high positive karma.
I think generally people score the comment – Phool being the exception; but that was usually for link-whoring.
And how were the scores “fiddled” ?

Johnboy 1:30 pm,

Thanks for clearing that up PG I always thought that your low scores were due to you talking shit.

I generally give anyone -ve karma for this sin, Johnboy; but Pete was certainly guilty more than most. 😈
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February 4, 2010 4:39pm
Kris K

Pete George 1:22 pm,

c girl, the karmas were only partly useful. It was obvious quite a few scored the person rather than the comment. And they scores were fiddled at times.

Only if the individual concerned was being a dick about things – like thrashing a dead horse a la Luc Hansen, and sometimes you, Pete.
But I recall, if you made a well reasoned comment, you receiving high positive karma.
I think generally people score the comment – Phool being the exception; but that was usually for link-whoring.
And how were the scores “fiddled” ?

Johnboy 1:30 pm,

Thanks for clearing that up PG I always thought that your low scores were due to you talking shit.

I generally give anyone -ve karma for this sin, Johnboy; but Pete was certainly guilty more than most. 😈
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February 4, 2010 4:47pm
Kris K

DPF:

Are the ‘Edit’ and ‘Request Deletion’ not working for similar reasons that you’ve put ‘Karma’ on hold?
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February 4, 2010 4:50pm
Pete George

Ah Kris, you use to get hammered on you-know-what, how many of your negatives do you think actually tried to understand those posts? I usually did (try).

Negative karmas weren’t necessarily all bad – I often challenged people’s assertions and got walloped, it often didn’t meant I had the opposite point of view, but thought they should substantiate, or thought they were over the top. Eg if you claimed the world was going to end in our lifetimes and I asked for substantiation it doesn’t mean I don’t think the world will never end, I’m just questioning if it could be predicted two or three millenia ago.

Karmas could also get momentum. One interesting pattern was a strong comment was posted and got plenty of pluses, then someone would post a simple debunk and suddenly the trend would change. Reef fish and sheep behaviour is not uncommon here.

I’m surprised how much you support Redbaiter, he often acts totally unchristianlike, and just appears to be using Christians to try and achieve his own nightmare. As long as he is attacking someone you disagree with don’t you care?
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February 4, 2010 4:54pm
Pete George

Kris – Edit works first time for me, a re-edit requires a page refresh (don’t know about delete, I haven’t used it).
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February 4, 2010 4:55pm
kowtow

That virginity story is on the UK Telegraphs most viewed.The story about the Ozzie guy lookin at the birds has really been overblown too.

Clearly sex sells,its a pity that “serious” news orgs give it such prominence tho.
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February 4, 2010 4:59pm
Viking2

Well I heard the report om radio news , may not be exact but nonetheless the point remains that many people who own a rental house don’t do so for the depreciation or the tax write offs but for their own good reasons of wealth and security and providing for themselves, and they all vote, so attack them and you attack a fairly large group of voters.
“hone” according to the Honorable Winston Peters is Maori for John and the new name was bestowed in honorable John by the same man about a week ago in a speech that he gave. (now that doesn’t mean I’m a Winston supporter at all so don’t even think about going down that track).
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February 4, 2010 5:43pm
Inky_the_Red

Mike NZ –
Someone linked me to solar roads last year to ask what I knew. Prior to then I had never heard about them.

I’m still skeptical Road take quite a load and heavy trucks running over them. Still if it can be proven to work then it is another option. I think a country surrounded by seas with fairly consistent winds might have more reliable electricity options than solar.
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February 4, 2010 5:51pm
Johnboy

“Kris – Edit works first time for me, a re-edit requires a page refresh (don’t know about delete, I haven’t used it).”

Perhaps you are one of the blessed unto the Lord Pete. 🙂
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February 4, 2010 5:51pm
Viking2

Kiwigreg; Well it seems if you have lots of money then that’s ok and you can protect it any way you want but for anyone wanting to emulate that situation by a means other than trading in either the money market or the NZX you don’t even get on the radar.
Tell me one thing, anything worthwhile that has been done to assist SME’s make more money and keep it, one thing that is or has resulted in the mountain of Govt. spending being reduced, anything of substance that has reduced compliance costs, labour costs, or taxation costs on SME’s.
Tell me why we have an ETS which will be another means of extracting tax, a tax based on emotional, incorrect pseudo science.
Tell me by how much the Govt. has increased spending on science .

For a supposedly pro business Govt. there is nothing to show for the last 14 months after 9 long years in opposition. An d don’t bother with the legacy story nor the recession story because they are the very reason why the opportunities to move on change should have been taken. But hey why do anything when you can stay popular by doing nothing and handing even more of other peoples money to someone else to vote for you.
Socialist to the core.
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February 4, 2010 5:53pm
Pete George

Not according to Kris, Johnboy. I think I’m one of his cursed.
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February 4, 2010 5:54pm
Johnboy

Sorry mis-spoke—–One of the accursed unto the lord.
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February 4, 2010 5:56pm
Kris K

Pete George 4:54 pm,

Ah Kris, you use to get hammered on you-know-what, how many of your negatives do you think actually tried to understand those posts? I usually did (try).

Just for the record, Pete, I have given you many +ve karma when I have agreed or you have put up a valid argument for which I had no argument against. And I usually try to understand someones comment. If it doesn’t interest me I just leave it alone.

I’m surprised how much you support Redbaiter, he often acts totally unchristianlike, and just appears to be using Christians to try and achieve his own nightmare. As long as he is attacking someone you disagree with don’t you care?

I know what you mean, but as Red has said he’s not religious, I make allowances for HOW he may say something, and usually just focus on the content of WHAT he says. I have never felt used by Red, just as I’m sure he has never felt used by me just because I may agree largely with his sentiments.

Perhaps Red and I share a similar ‘nightmare’ – mine just has an extra spiritual dimension to it.
And perhaps your version of a nightmare is my utopia, and vice versa.
Each to their own, I guess.

And Pete, you’re not “one of [my] cursed”, it’s more a case of not having found your way yet – while there’s breath there’s still hope, as they say. Ditto for Johnboy.
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February 4, 2010 6:18pm
Viking2

Brakes put on lifestyling
04 Feb 2010

Rule changes to stem the tide of urban growth over productive land are significant changes the Western Bay of Plenty District Council is making to its Proposed District Plan.
Rural subdivisions will now be determined by the land’s productive ability and will be aimed at creating productive units rather than small unproductive lots.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/12301a1.page

This is Westbay’s second attempt to control land use. The last one called Fields of the future halted all deveopment for over 2 years and just about sent all the local contractors broke.
Bloody socialists all over again.
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February 4, 2010 6:54pm
Luc Hansen

Waiting for my copy of James Hansen’s “Storms of my Grandchildren.”

To keep me going, I found this review.

Should be compulsory reading and I must find the time to post it on my new, additional, blog.

The book itself will become my Bible, a grand antidote to the ignorant, the callous, the reckless and the demented who seem to infest this site.
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February 4, 2010 7:40pm
Chthoniid

…so nothing then on how to make friends and influence people Luc?
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February 4, 2010 7:50pm
Johnboy

“And Pete, you’re not “one of [my] cursed”, it’s more a case of not having found your way yet – while there’s breath there’s still hope, as they say. Ditto for Johnboy.”

Thank for those kind words Kris.

I used to go bush with a mate who was as dedicated to hunting as you are to the Lord.

His favourite saying was. “When there’s lead in the air there’s hope”.

Hope springs eternal as they say.
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February 4, 2010 8:02pm
Redbaiter

” the ignorant, the callous, the reckless and the demented who seem to infest this site.”

Yeah, I too wish those damn commies would stay away.
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February 4, 2010 8:14pm
Viking2

Give good teachers a gold star and put the bad ones out to pasture
February 4, 2010

Research by Professor Bill Louden, of the University of Western Australia, and from overseas, increasingly points to the instinctively obvious: regardless of how many school halls or archery fields, regardless even of a child’s socio-economic background, teacher quality is the key to success.

The most valuable information standardised testing can provide is the difference good teaching makes, allowing the lucky child with a good teacher to improve at a greater rate than her contemporaries stuck with duds or mediocrities.

More@; http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/give-good-teachers-a-gold-star-and-put-the-bad-ones-out-to-pasture-20100203-ndfa.html
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February 4, 2010 8:18pm
Johnboy

It would be bloody sight more boring if they did though RB. Who could we abuse if all agreed with us?
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February 4, 2010 8:20pm
Johnboy

Nothing new Viking I had a maths teacher like that in 1967. Mr Dodge, AKA Moose. He could only teach maths to those who already understood it. Bear in mind this was a decile 10 school if we had had them in those days.

Result was by mutual agreement with Moose, me and the other failures went surfing at Lyall/Houghton Bay during the double maths period on wednesday mornings and he could get on with preaching to the converted.

Had to do maths all over again when I went to Wgtn. Polytech. Teacher was Pop McCaw. Best maths teacher God/G-d ever put on earth. Learned enough to pass like 70% and never used any of it again in my career.

Should have stuck to surfing I guess. Far better for the mind.
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February 4, 2010 8:31pm
Luc Hansen

Chithoniid – far to busy for that nonsense!
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February 4, 2010 8:47pm
alex Masterley

AC DC playing now at the Springs. Clear as a bell in Sandringham.
The nimbys in Grey Lynn will be going nuts!
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February 4, 2010 8:53pm
pjje

If 30 % of teachers need to lift their game, 70% are doing well or better. Your child doesn’t have to be lucky to get a good teacher. They have to be unlucky to get a bad teacher.

The union’s fault, IMHO, lies in not being prepared to recognise that people slip, and that there are less competent people in any field. We have a right to expect that they will be helped back on track. It would be a waste of money, and of their own future to just send them down the road.

A friend of mine likes to observe that competence is a rare and valuable thing. I think he under-estimates people (perhaps because he’s well along toward the highly competent end of the scale). And, IMHO again, competence in New Zealand’s work force (including among teachers) has been ratcheting up for a decade or more. It is the simple result of the immense experience of the baby boomer segment of the work force.

The area where competence has advanced less is managing and developing people. Not as a general rule, but in huge swathes of people who allow knee-jerk reactions to determine their response to performance problems. I say huge swathes, because I think their greatest influence is as voters and as talkback whingers. I suspect that very few of them last in any posirion where staff management and control is important to performance.
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February 4, 2010 9:39pm

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Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

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