General Debate 3 February 2010

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mickysavage

What’s this?

National is using my tax money to pay for propaganda?

Hypocrites.

[DPF: Actually the funding is from the allocation given to all parties in Prlt to communicate policies, and doesn’t increase the cost to taxpayers by one dollar. It is different to Government advertising campaigns (such as the tens of millions spent on WFF TV Ads) that are an additional cost to the taxpayer.]
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February 3, 2010 8:16am
XChequer

Careful, Micky. Do you really want to pick this fight? After all, if we were to do a comparison looking at how much Labour spent on ….ahem….. “communications” over 9 years, I think you’ll be on a hiding to nothing.

XChequer
http://www.thenzhomeoffice.blogspot.com/
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February 3, 2010 8:19am
barry

I was listening to National Radio 4pm panel discussion yesterday and they had on a professor Bob Carter from Ausy.
(http://members.iinet.net.au/~glrmc/ or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Carter) and I think JIm mora and his panel were a bit taken aback.

Carter made it clear that he thought that the IPCC are a bunch of unprofessional self opinionated ratbags. He didnt really offer an opinion on global warming or cooling or changing, but he certainly thinks that the way the IPCC has been running is very unprofessional and in at least some cases completely wrong.

As he says, the world (both land and sees ) have been cooing for the last 10 years and there is little or no proof that CO2 is having very much effect at all.

He accuses the IPCC of being a Publicity machine rather than that of being a scientific organisation.
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February 3, 2010 8:21am
dime

Mickey – 200k??? lol isnt that a 1/4 of what labour STOLE?
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February 3, 2010 8:22am
expat

Anyone else using the google mail app for blackberry that means you dont have to pay for a blackberry mail package but just use a much cheaper data package?

http://www.google.com/mobile/mail/

Works ona push IMAP basis.

Good app, automatically checks every 20 mins so isnt as real time a the native blackberry app but if you dont need real time it is a much more cost effective option.
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February 3, 2010 8:32am
Manolo

I read that Auckland iwi have being handed over ownership of a number of volcanoes in the region.
It seems the generous ’empty-suit’ John Key is buying the support of the racist Maori Party with our money.

When will it all end?
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February 3, 2010 8:34am
Yvette

The Government and mainstream media seem to have utterly failed the New Zealand public in informing them clearly what either the ETS or National Standards are, or how either works.
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February 3, 2010 8:35am
Captain Neurotic

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3287190/Will-but-no-way-for-tattoos

Whilst this is an unusual request and his tattoo’s suck… it’s kind of un-nerving to think that the public trust office ommitted part of his will from the mother…

I would be seriously pissed off if some bimbo though she knew better than the family!
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February 3, 2010 8:36am
Murray

Fuck off mickey we only just got you socislists out of thye trough and you had the gaul to bitch about other people?

You’re eyes are brown.
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February 3, 2010 8:37am
eszett

XChequer (206) Says:
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:19 am

Careful, Micky. Do you really want to pick this fight? After all, if we were to do a comparison looking at how much Labour spent on ….ahem….. “communications” over 9 years, I think you’ll be on a hiding to nothing.

Don’t you have a better argument than “National can do it, because Labour did worse”? Is the Labour party suddenly the new compass for National?

I find it funny that when Labour does it, it’s bad, bad, but when National does, it’s okay, as long as it’s not as bad as Labours.
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February 3, 2010 8:38am
mickysavage

eszett

I find it funny that when Labour does it, it’s bad, bad, but when National does, it’s okay, as long as it’s not as bad as Labours.

Agreed. That is why I used the description “Hypocrites”.

[DPF: But you are wrong. ]National has never ever said one should not use the Leaders Fund to promote policies outside an election campaign
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February 3, 2010 8:48am
dime

so mickey – youre obviously ok with national spending the 200k for “propaganda”.. otherwise you would also be a hypocrite. right?
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February 3, 2010 8:51am
mickysavage

so mickey – youre obviously ok with national spending the 200k for “propaganda”.. otherwise you would also be a hypocrite. right?

To tell you the truth I am actually OK with all parties using set Parliamentary Service budget for communication with NZ citizens.

You guys are not ok with it and have jumped up and down and frothed about it for years. All that I was pointing out was that if it is bad for Labour then it must be especially bad for that supposed paragon of virtue the National Party.

Double standards anyone?
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February 3, 2010 8:54am
david

Mickey/eszett
When you see the brochure, I will listen to you if it is “National Party Blue” and has statements like “this policy brought to you by the National Government – working for New Zealand”

I don’t think anyone here has disputed a Government’s right to communicate with the people, all we objected to was the method and the message in some particular cases. Bus shelters anyone?

Until you can level a legitimate charge of using Government funds for party political purposes, I suggest that you both STFU.
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February 3, 2010 9:00am
CharlieBrown

If anyone doubted how far removed from reality judges and law-makers are should read the below article. Two men on bail for murder beats a man into a coma… the man was a random victim (had no ties to the accused).

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3286976/Two-bashing-accused-on-bail-for-murders
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February 3, 2010 9:02am
Johnboy

It brings to tear to my eye to see how being encouraged to learn all about ones indiginous culture raises an individuals self esteem and value to society.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3287859/Man-critically-ill-after-attack-with-patu
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February 3, 2010 9:13am
slightlyrighty

Can anyone enlighten me as to why the socialists are so against an education policy which treats all students equally and expects all students to be able to reach a national standard?
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February 3, 2010 10:33am
NOt1tocommentoften

“The Pope has attacked Britain’s reform of human rights and equality legislation, saying religious employers should be allowed to discriminate against homosexuals.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/3288431/Pope-attacks-British-human-rights-reform

I guess most catholic priests should be fired then! What an outdated institution.
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February 3, 2010 10:45am
Manolo

This would put even Chris Carter to shame. Another corrupt politician caught red-handed.

“Nancy Pelosi is using military jets to facilitate the personal travel of her children and grandchildren. No member of congress involved, just the junketing of her kids. Worse still, she also appears to have requisitioned entire flights for the personal use of her children and grandchildren. That is, unaccompanied by any member of Congress, her kids, in-laws and grandchildren are using entire military passenger jets for their routine travel needs.

Using documents obtained by Judicial Watch’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests, the following travel requests were found:
22-Feb-2007: A military jet is requisitioned for the sole travel needs of the Speaker’s son, Paul Jr.
13-Apr-2007: A military jet is utilised for the unaccompanied travel of the Speaker’s daughter, son-in-law and grandson.
30-Oct-2008: A military jet is requisitioned for the Speaker’s daughter and a son-in-law, Peter Kaufman. to commute between San Francisco and Washington.

Military flights cost between $5-$20 thousand dollars per hour to operate. Pelosi only reimburses the government between $120-$400 per flight. The rest of the bill is paid with tax dollars.”

The whole article at http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/02/pelosis_monumental_abuse_of_mi.html
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February 3, 2010 10:50am
Johnboy

Anybody know what’s happened to Google? Has the Green party bought it or has Neville given it to the Maoris?

http://www.google.co.nz/
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February 3, 2010 10:54am
Pete George

Manolo, not much risk of that happening here, aren’t all our military jets gladwrapped?
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February 3, 2010 10:59am
KiwiGreg

I am sure Jesus would be proud of the Pope’s actions.

@ Manolo Pelosi is also legendary for her personal flights – she needed a much bigger private jet than the former speaker for her weekly commute as well.
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February 3, 2010 11:03am
cha

Can anyone enlighten me as to why the socialists are so against an education policy which treats all students equally and expects all students to be able to reach a national standard?

But all students aren’t treated equally

The Government’s flagship national standards education policy will not be fully set up in Maori-language schools for three years, despite new figures showing Maori are far behind their Pakeha classmates.
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February 3, 2010 11:04am
Johnboy

PG: Not 757’s or Kingair’s only strike wing.

Our troughing pollies use them regularly.
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February 3, 2010 11:05am
Redbaiter

“Manolo, not much risk of that happening here, aren’t all our military jets gladwrapped?”

As you well know you deceitful charlatan, the point is the mindset and the arrogance, and that is here in spades.
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February 3, 2010 11:05am
Brian Smaller

Some good Science news at long last.

http://volokh.com/2010/02/02/lancet-retracts-vaccine-autism-study/

I feel sorry for all those kids who had stupid parents who didn’t get them vaccinated becasue of Wakefield’s fraud.
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February 3, 2010 11:35am
Pete George

Cross check your sources.

Judicial Watch hides facts in attack on Pelosi flights

Judicial Watch has received much attention from the usual right-wing outlets for its recent mini-report claiming that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi spent $2 million in taxpayer money on Air Force aircraft. The press release seems rather deliberately underwritten, suggesting that much, if not all, of that money was spent solely on Pelosi and her immediate family — for example, their press release’s headline states that Pelosi’s “Military Travel Cost the United States Air Force $2,100,744.59 over a Two-Year Period.” But the release later discloses that the data is actually for “103 Pelosi-led congressional delegations” — i.e., the congressional delegations set up through the Speaker’s office, many of which included other members of Congress as well — not her personal travel. WorldNetDaily, for one, took that bait.

Judicial Watch is also completely silent about the passenger lists for these CODELs — perhaps because some of them include Republican members of Congress and their spouses.
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February 3, 2010 11:35am
Jaime Raine

San Francisco’s Answer to Westboro Baptist Church:

http://laughingsquid.com/san-franciscos-answer-to-westboro-baptist-church/

Westboro Baptist Church showed up to protest in front of Twitter’s San Francisco office on Thursday, but found themselves severely outnumbered by a crowd of absurdist pranksters.

ROFLMAO, check out the pics!
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February 3, 2010 11:44am
Pete George

Is someone spiking the tea leaves?

‘Tea Party Nation’ Prepares Convention, But Partiers Balk at For-Profit Event

The national convention that began as a way to unify tea party activists from across the country is now threatening to divide them. Some of Tea Party Nation’s own volunteers and members have rejected the convention because they see profiteering and fear a Republican Party takeover.

Some activists and outsiders alike are questioning the motives of Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips.

The event’s main sponsor, American Liberty Alliance, dropped its sponsorship after learning that those who purchased tickets paid for them through PayPal accounts linked to an e-mail address belonging to Phillips’ wife.

National Precinct Alliance has canceled precinct strategy workshops. Meanwhile, American Majority scrapped plans for two sessions at the convention and withdrew its sponsorship.

Saturday night’s keynote speaker Sarah Palin remains committed to the event.

“Oh, you betcha I’m going to be there,” Palin told Fox News. “I’m going to speak there because there are people traveling from many miles away to hear what that tea party movement is all about.”

Palin’s speaking fee is $100,000. She said she will donate the money to campaigns, candidates and issues. As a down payment for Palin’s fee, Phillips reportedly borrowed $50,000, much of it from a baseball card mogul. He missed his first payment.

Tickets to see Palin are $349 and participants can attend the entire event for $549.

It looks like the grass roots may need to stump up a lot of grass to join this party.
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February 3, 2010 11:48am
cha

Sherry Phillips’s email to Tea Party Nation members.
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February 3, 2010 12:02pm
Redbaiter

Poor old Cha and his left wing sources. Read that letter 5 days ago Cha. Get up to speed or go away. Nobody needs yesterdays news, (always presented in such breathless drama) and it seems that’s all you ever have.
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February 3, 2010 12:27pm
Redbaiter

” Cross check your sources.”

Gee Pete. At first what’s happening in America has no relevance, and then you can’t seem to stop posting about it. Far past time you got your strategy sorted.
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February 3, 2010 12:29pm
Pete George

Cha simply posted a link without any breathlessness, and he probably didn’t care if someone might have read it already. I hadn’t (I’m not on the TPN mailing list) and thought it was interesting.

RB, you could help by posting the time and date you read anything, and what sources are acceptable to you, so no one else wastes your time with things you have read or don’t want to read – in fact you can do anything you like on your own blog.

Ah, I don’t have a strategy or agenda like you.
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February 3, 2010 12:33pm
Dirty Rat

ouch

I bet my left testicle this doesnt get paid

http://www.dirtydebtors.co.nz/view_dirty_A_Z.php
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February 3, 2010 12:33pm
Jack5

The Government guarantees for Maori housing on tribal land that can’t be sold may be one of the most divisive, apartheid-like measures yet introduced in NZ.

As you might expect, Red Jim Bolger,as chairman of Kiwibank, was one of those to put his monikere on the deal.

Housing Corp and Kiwibank will provide loans to build housing on this Maori land. That means ultimately taxpayers will bear the risk for default. Non-Maori have no show of getting bank loans on non-Maori communal land, because commercial lenders need a mortgage on the land as security for default.

There is a need to help Maori into housing, but this could be backed by Maori incorporations setting up guarantor funds, perhaps from Waitangi settlements.

Land title is one of the key factors why Maori haven’t matched pakeha in economic benefits. The multiple title is an anachronistic penalty. It would be better if individual title were given to tribe members. Then watch Maori entrepreneurship boom.

In the meantime, this guarantee deal must qualify as racism, but you can bet Boris the Commissioner wouldn’t look at it. As well as loading risk, and inevitably at least a few specifically Maori defaults, on taxpayers, it discriminates against non-Maori Kiwibank customers and Maori customers, who have normal mortgages on which they sacrifice the underlying property if they default.

Apart from Bolger, the Minister of Housing, Phil Heatley, and Housing NZ chief executive Lesley McTurk, are prominent in the deal announcement. Heatley said in his announcement: “..”National campaigned on exploring ways to give banks more confidence to back papakainga housing…”

The way National found is handouts, rather than title reform. Land title is at the very core of national development and development of groups within a country. Why doesn’t National act like a 21st century party in this?

McTurk, an adult MBA, had a mixed record in Christchurch local government before Helen Clark and her team installed her at Housing NZ.

The link:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10623840
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February 3, 2010 1:40pm
Kris K

Manolo 8:34 am,

I read that Auckland iwi have being handed over ownership of a number of volcanoes in the region.
It seems the generous ‘empty-suit’ John Key is buying the support of the racist Maori Party with our money.

When will it all end?

It will NEVER end.
I’ve already heard that iwi want their share of the analogue frequency band which will be freed up once TV switches over to digital.

I guess that’s so they can use their pre-Europen analogue radios, TVs, etc.
Unfrikken believable.
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February 3, 2010 2:16pm
Kris K

Jack5 1:40 pm

The Government guarantees for Maori housing on tribal land that can’t be sold may be one of the most divisive, apartheid-like measures yet introduced in NZ.

As you might expect, Red Jim Bolger,as chairman of Kiwibank, was one of those to put his monikere on the deal.

Housing Corp and Kiwibank will provide loans to build housing on this Maori land. That means ultimately taxpayers will bear the risk for default. Non-Maori have no show of getting bank loans on non-Maori communal land, because commercial lenders need a mortgage on the land as security for default.

This is indeed nothing less than racism repackaged.

Of course, in the event of the loans being defaulted upon, if the land and property were resultantly returned to those that had underwritten the loans (ie the tax payer), then I would perhaps have no problem – but, of course, we know THAT will never happen.

More rascist pandering to Maori by the National led government.
MMP – be ye gone!
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February 3, 2010 2:31pm
MikeNZ

I think the Israelis probably told them who did it and how 🙂

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1146944.html

But will Hamas and the worlds media apologise over their Jew bashing and repeating?
Don’t hold your breath.
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February 3, 2010 6:08pm
Viking2

Well I supose its not any worse than Kiwi Bank teaming up with Atilla the Hun to provide consumer finance.
Atilla alias. GE Finance dumped thousands of Kiwi’s in the crap last year when they took their money home and Bolger was stupid enough to sign them up to work with Kiwibank.
Time that time serving useless prick was sent to a home. Oh I forgot he’s a Nat. He must be revered.
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February 3, 2010 6:55pm
mjennings

I don’t know if any of you noticed this, but it certainly to me at least is an utterly appalling piece of news:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/6757737/man-loses-appeal-against-murder-conviction/

A guy who kills his sexual assailant should actually be given a medal – not a life sentence. In fact I would go so far to say that any man that would not kill, or at least severely damage another man who sexually molested him, would in fact not be a real man.

Compare this poor guy’s sentence to the ridiculously low 3 years that Bio O’Brien got for thumping to death a 78 year old man who caused a minor dent to his car.

New Zealand’s justice system is an utter joke.
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February 3, 2010 9:56pm
eszett

mjennings (33) Says:
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:56 pm

I don’t know if any of you noticed this, but it certainly to me at least is an utterly appalling piece of news:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/6757737/man-loses-appeal-against-murder-conviction/

A guy who kills his sexual assailant should actually be given a medal – not a life sentence. In fact I would go so far to say that any man that would not kill, or at least severely damage another man who sexually molested him, would in fact not be a real man.

Compare this poor guy’s sentence to the ridiculously low 3 years that Bio O’Brien got for thumping to death a 78 year old man who caused a minor dent to his car.

New Zealand’s justice system is an utter joke.

Reading the story:

He accepted invitation to stay at Mr Sorrenson’s home and two nights later while he was drying himself after taking a shower, his host walked into the room and grabbed his penis.

After rejecting the advances, Ferguson picked up a vase and smashed it over Mr Sorrenson’s head. He then picked up a poker and hit him a number of times over the head before stabbing him in the back about three times.

The other guy grabbed his dick after he stayed two nights in his house. And in your mind that justifies murder. He couldn’t have just called the police. Or just punched him and walked away. No, he was a “real man” and stabbed the guy in the back while he was down.

I’d say your version of a justice system is an utter joke and a bad one to boot.
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February 3, 2010 11:05pm
pjje

mjennings @ 9:56 pm.

The description of the court’s findings is:

“Handing down its decision, the appeal court justices said that the case involved a single issue as to whether the culpable homicide was murder or manslaughter.

“‘That was properly placed before the jury for consideration,’ they said.”

It looks like the Court of Appeal simply decided to let the decision of the jury stand. And the presumptive sentence for murder is life imprisonment. Discretion is allowed, but it seems that the sentencing judge might have taken the view that Mr Ferguson over reacted.

Mr Fergusson apparently lost self-control because Mr Sorenson’s unwanted attentions brought back a past memory of sexual abuse from which he suffered post-traumatic stress disorder (see TVNZ News 01:25am | Convicted murderer granted appeal extension | May 1, 2009). It looks like that information was all in front of they jury, and they decided nonetheless that the killing wasn’t justified.

It seems to me that in this case the justice system stepped out of the way to let the community (in the form of the jury) have its say, and respected the jury’s view. I guess, sitting in that jury room, they had time to think about a lot of stuff. The information persented in the trial of course (and I don’t know what that all was). But also the implications of letting someone walk for a killing in those circumstances. After the killer had accepted his hospitality. Apparently without exercising the option of saying “Thanks, but I’m not that way inclined”. Maybe they could have let him walk. Or maybe they thought that civilised society requires a little more self-control from us. I’d certainly find it hard to disagree with that. Would you be happy to see someone killed because they had outraged a person suffering from PTSD?
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February 4, 2010 12:17am
Pete George

In fact I would go so far to say that any man that would not kill, or at least severely damage another man who sexually molested him, would in fact not be a real man.

Someone who loses their rag, overacts violently and kills is not a “real man”. Someone who thinks that such lack of self control is of a “real man” is also highly questionable – it’s a disgraceful attitude behind our awful violent crime statistics and is a reason for a lot of relationship problems and abused kids.
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February 4, 2010 6:14am
Jack5

Any geeks out there know of a shareware/freeware cleaner that will rip out MyWebSearch that doesn’t entail manual monkeying around with the Windows Register?
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February 4, 2010 8:20pm

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