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February 27, 2010 7:54am by David Farrar

General Debate 27 February 2010

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General Debate

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pjje

Turning to something more important (at least here in NZ) – see Shoeshine in this week’s NBR (NZX suggesting that they would put Allied Farmers into the index (with the inference that NZ Farming Systems Uruguay woulkd be promoted out), followed by a flip flop a few days later). Just imagine if you’d had shares in Allied Farmers or NZ Farming Systems Uruguay. Values entirely messed up due to the incompetence of NZX. No wonder it’s hard to get Kiwis to move their money out of bricks and mortar. You’d have to be a mug to have your money in the sharemarket while NZX runs it. Especially given that only paid subscribers of the NZX Datamail service got the first round of information. Is it insider trading when it’s wrong?
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February 27, 2010 8:31pm
ISeeRed

Kris K: “It is believed (by some) that…” “…which would likely have resulted in…” “…this could have resulted…..” Like most Christian fundies, when something just doesn’t make sense or isn’t supported by Scripture, Kris K just makes shit up.

Kris K, prove the Bible isn’t actually the work of the devil and a false idol for you to worship and lead you off the true path to your god. Show us where in the Bible your god said something like “Build me a Bible and call it the Word of God”.
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February 27, 2010 8:32pm
Kris K

eszett 5:09 pm,

There are more absurdities around Noah’s Ark.

A) The limited gene pool for one. It’s absurd to think that it would have been possible to create everything from just a pair of each animal.

Why?
God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.

B) The sheer size of the ark to be able to host that many animals, which would of into the hundreds of thousands (Just think of all the insects that would have had to be there)

It’s been proven that all of the land animals that went through the Flood could have reasonably fitted within the ark. And, of course, you could take infants.
Insects likely got a lift on floating debris.

C) The ability to build such a large structure in that time (planning, materials, execution)

Noah was following God’s instructions – where’s the problem?

D) The ability to host a suitable habitat for all creatures from deserts to arctic, from rain-forests to savannas

Prior to the Flood there were no desert, artic, rain forrest, savannas regions. The world had a moderate and uniform climate. Plus there was no rain prior to the flood. It is more the miracle that they survived AFTER the flood when the weather was no longer uniform and moderate.

E) Food supply. How would it possible to feed the amount of animals. Water would probably not be a problem, since it rained.

While I believe Noah could have provided for the animals by ‘natural’ means, there is no reason God couldn’t have made supernatural provision. Ever heard of the Children of Israel being feed in the desert by God in the form of manna? Or of Christ feeding the 5,000 from a boy’s lunch of a few loaves and fishes?

F) Waste. How did the toilets work? All those animals would have produced a huge amount of waste.

Is this really a problem?
Chuck it over the side.

G) Seefood. God destroys all the land-dewelling animals, but sea life continues on without a problem.

Correct.
The purpose of the Flood was to destroy sinful man [Gen 6:7]; the destruction of the animals was just an unfortunate by-product. Only those animals that weren’t ‘good swimmers’ needed to be taken onto the ark.

Puzzled in Ekatahuna (7:45 pm):
Hopefully I’ve answered your queries as well.
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February 27, 2010 8:41pm
Fale Andrew Lesa

pjje,

Why don’t you offer some form of substance alongside that empty, ignorant rhetoric of yours? Some of us have heard it all before…

You could start by explaining all the “forged fossils” discovered to fit the theory of evolution together over the years?

There was the famous Chinese Archaeoraptor Scandal published in 1999, the Brontosaurus, (the gentle giant of dinosaurs, revealed as a fraud.), The “Piltdown Man”: the famous paleontological hoax, the Nebraska man, the Java man, the Peking man, etc, etc.

Oh and lets not forget Radiometric Dating flaws:

The validity of radiometric dating depends upon the three listed assumptions being correct – The decay rate being a constant, the parent/daughter ratio when the object being tested was “created”; and the assumption that there has been no loss or addition of the parent or daughter component throughout its history.

Lest we forget the day that science was opposed to scientific “assumptions”. Oh how much can “conveniently” change.

We could go on for ever pjje, I’m only worried that your son will loose all the credibility he ever had towards you.
Now it might be easy for you to happily point out the ignorance of religion but don’t you go thinking that evolutionist’s are without fault either, your head appears big enough for that already.
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February 27, 2010 8:43pm
Repton

What are the odds that

This mother will get permanent name suppression?

Will not got to jail?

That a father would neither get permanent name suppression or a non custodial sentence?

I am not a lawyer, but I remember roughly what lawyers have said in previous discussions on blogs.

From my recollection, then, name suppression in sexual abuse cases such as this is required by law if revealing the name would identify the victim. “son’s best friend” is probably a close enough relationship to allow people to figure out who the victim is. So, the mother (even if found guilty) will get name suppression unless/until the victim applies to have it lifted. The same would be true if the offender were male.

I have no idea what the sentence will be (if found guilty).
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February 27, 2010 8:44pm
Repton

A) The limited gene pool for one. It’s absurd to think that it would have been possible to create everything from just a pair of each animal.

Why?
God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.

Heh, awesome.

“This is too absurd to be true!”

“It’s not absurd if you believe this other thing which is also too absurd to be true!”
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February 27, 2010 8:47pm
Kris K

pjje 7:51 pm,

I sometimes wonder how these fundamentalists can bear to use computers (eg for websurfing, in the ignition systems of their cars, in their cellphones, etc, etc). Isn’t the design and manufacture of chips now a matter of subatomic physics, with circuits laid down so finely as to be separated by the width of a few atoms or molecules? How do they reconcile quantum mechanics with God?

If you have ever considered “quantum mechanics”, then you’ll realise that it resides more in the meta-physical than the so called natural realm.

Ever heard of Schrödinger’s Cat?

Quantum Mechanics resides in the God realm – thanks for bringing it up.
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February 27, 2010 8:52pm
pjje

It’s not all thought experiments (eg, the double slit experiment – there’s a link to an article in the Schrodinger’s Cat wiki article, in case you’re interested). How are the pixies in your PC tonight? Did the number of the beast come up yet?
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February 27, 2010 9:08pm
transmogrifier

Heh, Kris is awesome. It is somewhat inspiring to see someone twist logic so much to defend something he truly believes in.
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February 27, 2010 9:11pm
Chuck Bird

I have no idea what the sentence will be (if found guilty).

May I suggest home detention and community work.

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/home-detention-woman-who-had-sex-friend039s-young-son/5/14025

I believe that the sentence would be a lot different if it was the case of a father having sex with his daughter’s best friend after plying her with alcohol.
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February 27, 2010 9:18pm
Pete George

Just to change tact, is anyone else getting really pissed off with ads on Sale after Sale after Sale…..

A Sale sign is pretty much a “We’re open again this week” sign these days. It means nothing – apart from warning you that something not “on Sale” is most likely grossly overpriced.

Up top 50% off means everything else is double the price it should be.
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February 27, 2010 9:25pm
Hurf Durf

brainsrightout and Puke spreading their anti-Western, anti-prosperity horseshit. You two should get married. It’s legal now.
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February 27, 2010 9:36pm
Shunda barunda

[Why?
God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.

Heh, awesome.

“This is too absurd to be true!”

“It’s not absurd if you believe this other thing which is also too absurd to be true!”]

Actually Repton, it is not all that absurd, the theory of human evolution also points to an “Adam and Eve” pair that all modern humans are derived from.
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February 27, 2010 9:40pm
Yvette

Kris – “God started the human race with just Adam and Eve approximately 1500 years previously.” [to the Flood]

So if Creation is about 6000 years old, with 1500 years pre-Flood and 2000 years being the era AD, that leaves 2500 years between the Flood and Christ’s birth. But the archeology, Kris, which you would say supports the Flood and other Old Testament events, also records Egyptian dynasties from XXXII 332-30 BC back to Archaic Period I, 3414 BC, and back beyond that a Predynastic Period [Early] of 5464 BC. That’s just under 3000 years different to your timeline, by the archeology that validates your other beliefs.
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February 27, 2010 9:47pm
pjje

I have to say, though, I’m not especially knowledgeable on quantum mechanics. I didn’t even know that it is to be capitalised. Like God, perhaps?

Looking for help now. I’ve spent a decent part of the day cutting firewood, including with the chainsaw. Newly sharpened for the firewood season. But it’s starting to show signs of needing a touch up. And I know from experience that with my file I won’t get it as good as the shop does with its machine. In fact the guy who sharpened it for me tells me that he faces the same problem, and only touches up a couple of times before going back and sharpening on the machine.

So I was thinking of buying a machine myself. Not one of the $1,000 plus benchtop ones. One of the smaller ones that costs $100 to $200. I found couple at the BuyWright site (isn’t Google great?) that run off 12 v batteries. So no problem using them up the hill and away from a power point – just it hook up to the 4wd battery (I better make sure it is 12v). Has anyone who reads this ever used one of these things? Have any comments to offer on whether they are any good?

The other possibility that I had in mind is the Dremel rotary tool attachment or similar (cheap, with some great reviews on Amazon.com, but in my case requires either a new rotary tool or access to a power point). Does anyone here have any thoughts on these attachments?
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February 27, 2010 9:50pm
Robert Black

God all this discussion about religion.

I hate to tell you this people but religion doesn’t really have a lot of relevance in modern day New Zealand because there is not a high enough percentage of Muslims in the country YET to start blowing up and murdering innocent people.

Of more concern maybe the certain cultural doom the country faces and when it will become a police state.

Remember that movie Sleeping Dogs?

By the way, I never realised Sam Neil was Irish until today.

Better start deciding where will District Nine be?

Otahuhu, Otara, Mangere or the East Cape?
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February 27, 2010 10:39pm
Pete George

pjje: “Dremel rotary tool attachment”

I’ve tried this, they wear out very quickly so each bit can’t be used many times before it a) loses it’s correct diameter, and b) wears out altogether.

I’d also be interested in knowing if there are worthwhile reasonably priced sharpening kits.

I take mine chainsaw in for a decent sharpen a couple of sharpens each year, and hand file it – the key is to do it often, maybe each time you use the saw, it’s a lot easier to maintain an edge compared to filing up a very blunt chain.

The small amount of time spent filing the chain is more than made up with a lot cleaner faster cutting.

I read somewhere that keeping things stored in a pyramid (eg razor blades) keeps them sharp, but I don’t think they tested it on saw chains back in the day. I’m also as dubious about the whole idea as I am about many of the ideas mentioned in this thread, wishful thinking and praying seem to go together.
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February 28, 2010 6:21am
Chthoniid

@Shunda barunda

Actually Repton, it is not all that absurd, the theory of human evolution also points to an “Adam and Eve” pair that all modern humans are derived from.

Except the mitochondrial Eve is 200,000 years old and Adam was 50-60,000 years old & that this molecular tracking of evolution does not indicate the human population was down to these few individuals.

At an analogical level, all we’re doing is following the ‘river’ of human evolution back to one feeder stream, by picking one tractable marker. Just as all the water from a river doesn’t come from one stream, our genome didn’t come from one single human ancestor.
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February 28, 2010 8:03am
toad

Sometime today Kiwiblog is going to clock up comment number 666666. Better stay away today Kris K, just to make sure it isn’t yours.
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February 28, 2010 8:22am
dad4justice

There is a devil of a smell around here. Morning swampthing.
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February 28, 2010 8:39am
Chthoniid

NOAA tsunami graphic
http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/2010/02/27/725245/08/ttvu725245-08.jpg

Well worth a look…
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February 28, 2010 8:42am
Scott

Just want it noted that the religious nature of this general blog was started by Yvette who blogged about the no doubt irrefutable findings of scientists and the measuring of movement of tectonic plates showing the earth must be millions of years old and not thousands as implied in the Biblical account of creation.

So it wasn’t a Christian who ‘hijacked’ this particular thread. Just want that noted for the record.
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February 28, 2010 5:06pm
Pete George

But Scott, God made her do it.
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February 28, 2010 7:36pm

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