General Debate 22 February 2010

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Whafe

Amazing how we have a generation of people whom think it is ok to kick the shit out of our Police!

A decade of softness on crime and we are payign the price, are we suprised? NO, didnt think so
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February 22, 2010 8:49am
Jack5

News – Maori holding spectrum to seek radio spectrum (free). It’s understood this is in recognition of the loss of iwi radio stations, cellphone networks, television channels, and WiFi and other broadband wireless systems that were forced off the air when Europeans arrived.

Oh well, white civilisation ruined the Maori airline industry, too, so we might as well give them a stake in Air NZ.

The link:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/3355192/Maori-to-hold-national-hui-on-spectrum

and earlier:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/3160306/Maori-lay-claim-to-radio-spectrum
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February 22, 2010 8:58am
barry

From The Herald yesterday. I wonder how long it will be before its put down to AGW….

…”High tides and bad weather could flood Auckland’s Northwestern Motorway in coming months, stranding thousands of commuters and causing gridlock.

The New Zealand Transport Agency has warned motorists and cyclists of unusually high “king tides” that could swamp the Northwestern Motorway, one of Auckland’s major arterial routes.

The motorway, which passes over reclaimed land on the edge of Waitemata Harbour, has been gradually sinking for the past 50 years”……………

More than 87,000 vehicles use the motorway every day.
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February 22, 2010 8:58am
Pete George

A decade of softness on crime

There has actually been a hardening on crime over the last decade – increased police numbers, substantial increases is sentences and the prison population. Is that why there is more disrespect of the police?

Except that it’s not just the police on the receiving end of cowardly gang type attacks. Does a lack of wars mean we are accumulating too big a proportion of thugs? There are probably many reasons – including criticism of the police as “revenue gatherers”.
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February 22, 2010 9:02am
cha

FSince 1990 Jack5.

Claims Concerning the Allocation of Radio Frequencies

The existence of radio waves was discovered by Heinrich Hertz in about 1886, and their development was initiated by Guglielmo Marconi at the turn of the century. Neither man was a British subject.

The resource existed in economic terms before then, and in 1840, even though, like oil, the capacity of land for grazing, or orange roughy, it had zero value until it was discovered and the technologies to use it were developed.

Whether discovered or not, the chiefs and tribes had absolute chieftainship over all resources, discovered and undiscovered, in New Zealand in 1840, just as a sovereign state makes similar claims in respect of such resources within its own borders. Maori could not be expected to surrender such resources to the discoverer because of the discovery, any more than a modern state would to the Italian Marconi or his descendants.

Wai 150 statement of claim
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February 22, 2010 9:12am
Jack5

Re Whafe’s 8.49 post on police getting kicked around.

Police Minister Collins is talking, but that’s all. From the Stuff site:

Collins said she would consider a law change to better protect police officers, but rebuilding respect for the law should be the first step.

“What I’ve asked to find out is whether or not the law is being properly applied, that’s one side of it. But actually we’d rather stop the attacks in the first place, and I think it’s extremely important that we start to rebuild the respect and fear for the law that we expect,” she told Radio New Zealand.

Arm them for goodness sake, Collins. Give the police pistols, and put rifles and shotguns in their patrol cars. The police would seldom need to use them, but it’s better to have thugs with pellets in their arses than policemen being kicked near to death. A Colt Python .357 Magnum revolver would command respect – immediate respect. Please, no frigging TV advertising campaign lecturing the good majority: “It’s not alright to kick shit out of cops”.

The Minister needs to show us she’s more bulldog than paper bulldog. At the moment it’s as though the British War Cabinet in 1940 was full of Quakers.

And please, Minister, tell us what’s happening with the inquiry into the Brash emails.
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February 22, 2010 9:13am
MikeNZ

Disrespect for the police.

There are many aspects to this including general lawlessness and bad behaviour with drink on streets.
1. poor behaviour and written law from parliament.
2. silly sentencing from the courts.
3. perceived illogical sentencing from the courts.
4. perception that parliament isn’t listening to the electorate.
5. perception that NZPolice are political footballs (anti-smacking, cannabis)
6. perception of NZPolice members prosecuted over decade risen.
7. Clint Rickards and mates cases

Of course National has only been in power for a year so much of this is down to Helen Clark and Labour.
Not sure whether tougher penalties for assault on police will help.
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February 22, 2010 9:25am
Jack5

Re Cha’s 9.12 post on Maori having rightss over yet to be discovered technologies.

That confirms it, the claims are blackmail…

Everything and forever, like the rights Claims Minister Finlayson as a lawyer negotiated for Ngai Tahu over South Island crown assets – for ever.

Maori could not be expected to surrender such resources to the discoverer because of the discovery, any more than a modern state would to the Italian Marconi or his descendants.

Marconi nor his descendants were never greedy or stupid enough to claim rights over radio spectrum, but they would have a far greater moral right to it than Maori do to radio spectrum.

Do Maori claim the air over NZ, the sunshine, the gamma rays?
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February 22, 2010 9:25am
eszett

# MikeNZ (1266) Says:
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:25 am

Disrespect for the police.

There are many aspects to this including general lawlessness and bad behaviour with drink on streets.
1. poor behaviour and written law from parliament.
2. silly sentencing from the courts.
3. perceived illogical sentencing from the courts.
4. perception that parliament isn’t listening to the electorate.
5. perception that NZPolice are political footballs (anti-smacking, cannabis)
6. perception of NZPolice members prosecuted over decade risen.
7. Clint Rickards and mates cases

Of course National has only been in power for a year so much of this is down to Helen Clark and Labour.
Not sure whether tougher penalties for assault on police will help.

Any examples for points 1 and 2?
And points 3 – 6 are only perceptions, so actually something else is happening, right?
So that leaves point 7

Now I’d be curious to hear your remedies to all this.
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February 22, 2010 9:31am
david

@Pete George 9:02
So now we are getting closer to the nub. I take it that you are implying that it is all Helen Clark’s fault in that if she had introduced conscription in 2000 and committed NZ to the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan in force, we would have thinned out the thug population in some sort of Darwinian selection-of-the-less-intelligent process.

An interesting thesis indeed !!!!!
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February 22, 2010 9:34am
cha

Posted earlier by someone but Boris Johnson reckons a simple way to keep law and order is to make everyone kiss and cuddle.
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February 22, 2010 9:35am
Pete George

Possibly david, but it could work the other way – many of the cowardly pricks who hit people from behind and join in gang kicking in the head of someone on the ground may run in the other direction when being brave is required.

But no, I’m not saying the last ten years is the problem. It’s pathetic political posturing trying to ring fence an ingrained evolving complex problem as being the responsibility of one government.

In any case the government of the day is only a part of the whole – personal responsibilities, family responsibilities and community responsibilities (including communities like blogs) have a role and an influence at least as significant.
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February 22, 2010 9:42am
Whafe

Pete George – Read MikeNZ’s post @9.25 in the AM = Saves me typing anything….

Substantial increases in sentences…. Get real man, wake up and smell the coffee
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February 22, 2010 9:43am
Pete George

Boris Johnson reckons a simple way to keep law and order is to make everyone kiss and cuddle.

Maybe everyone should fly on Air NZ then?
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/dos_and_donts_for_cuddle_class.html
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February 22, 2010 9:45am
Whafe

PeteG, again, so you are saying that your party of which you support has not had any influence over the breakdown in personal responsibilities, family responsibilities etc etc etc etc…. Again, smell the coffee for a 2nd time this morning….

Give me strength….
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February 22, 2010 9:46am
Mr Nobody NZ

As somebody with family currently in the Police department I can’t help but think Collins needs to tread a little carefully here. Yes two police officers were assaulted over the weekend however one was in uniform and one duty while the other was off duty and out walking the dog.

I think both crimes deserve punishment but I don’t want to see off duty police officers somehow be given a different level of protection that other citizens cannot expect.
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February 22, 2010 9:48am
cha

So it’s the gummints fault is it Whafe?.
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February 22, 2010 9:49am
Pete George

“The current growth trend in prison numbers commenced in 2003 when the prison population stood at less than 6,000. The prison population currently stands at around 8,000. On existing policy and sentencing settings, the prison population is forecast to exceed 10,700 by 2016.”

http://www.corrections.govt.nz/news-and-publications/briefing-for-the-incoming-minister-2008/executive-summary.html
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February 22, 2010 9:54am
MikeNZ

Thanks for that link Pete
I stand by my previous posts here that we need to be building 2X 1000 bed prisons (one on each island) with attendant trade shops and classrooms for offender (less than 3 convictions).
Also 2X 500 bed borstals next door to use the same classrooms and trade shops.

It maybe that we need another Paraporemo to house lifers and preventative detention too.
These needs to be finished in 3 years.

so we’d better get our skates on!
should have been planned and started under Helen and LiarLabour 3-5 yrs ago of course 🙂

Of course it would help if we were able to tell the nimbys to sod off!
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February 22, 2010 10:05am
david

Myself, I would be putting this disrespect for the police and willingness to partake in violent beatings in the same basket as the lack of interest in education and personal improvement exhibited by a pretty significant block of school-age kids.

Generally I suspect that where parents and wider family value education and see it as the pathway to a better future, the outcomes will be much more positive. Where an acceptable life is seen to be as a permanent government-funded holiday involving sex, drugs and alcohol (all in large quantities) and no responsibility or liability for any collateral damage to others the outcomes are also predictable.

Somehow we need to change the incentives.
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February 22, 2010 10:08am
MikeNZ

Pete
This is a serious clusterfck waiting to happen.

the Department’s Community Probation and Psychological Services have grown by 95% since 2003 – 48% of probation officers now have less than two years experience. However, numbers of requests for pre-sentence reports, and offenders on sentences continue to grow above funded levels.

and

However overall growth in numbers of offenders to be managed, combined with large numbers of inexperienced staff (over 40 per cent of frontline staff have less than two years experience, due to extensive recruitment over the past five years), means that staff training and support remain a critical focus for attention.
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February 22, 2010 10:09am
MikeNZ

David
I see your points and share them, I would have added them to my @9.25 post but was just highlighting the law, judiciary, NZPolice, and parliamentary aspects.

I don’t see a quick turnaround in any of the aspects and sadly don’t see the leadership from John Key or others to properly highlight this and offer a way forward.
Maybe if there were no permanent govt funded holiday perhaps?

One could add the loss of respect for the law the Maori claims and (little hidden deals) are causing amongst non-maori too.
Everything is perception and it all adds up.
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February 22, 2010 10:15am
MikeNZ

Mr Nobody NZ (207) Says:
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:48 am

It wasn’t lost on me when the present commissioner floated the idea that Police off duty should be “off sworn” so they can relax and not be obligated to attend around them. (Bullshit idea)

Personally think the push for the Professional vs the rest of us in society (in church circles its known as the clergy/laity divide) by the biggest gang in NZ, has led to a breakdown in common values vz a viz all of us policing society.
This has been detrimental to both police and us and has added to the us and them perception.
Stephen Franks has written very eloquently on this matter.
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February 22, 2010 10:20am
Chthoniid

Recalling David’s post on the bikini girls posing on a croc trap, here’s a local that went one better
http://bit.ly/d7ccFN

This is the area I was photographing crocodiles in btw- about 200 salties over 3 metres long in a 300 metre stretch of river.
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February 22, 2010 10:29am
cha

RIP Alexander M. Haig Jr.

He was brutally candid about his own run for office and his subsequent distaste for political life. “Not being a politician, I think I can say this: The life of a politician in America is sleaze,” he told the authors of “Nixon: An Oral History.”

“I didn’t realize it until I started to run for office,” he said. “But there is hardly a straight guy in the business. As Nixon always said to me — and he took great pride in it — ‘Al, I never took a dollar. I had somebody else do it.’ ”
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February 22, 2010 10:40am
kaya

There is a direct correlation between the gradual reduction in consequences for bad behaviour over the last 20 years or so and the increase in crime and poor behaviour of all sorts. This starts all the way back at pre-school age.

The liberal desire to find alternative ways to address poor behaviour be it kids or murderers (rehabilitate/reason/counsel with) is a lovely aspiration and may even work in some cases but remedies at the other end of the spectrum must be available. An old cliche but you have to have the carrot AND the stick. Labour and the left hid the stick, time to cut a new one. (Anti smacking just one example.)

Apart form that there is generally less respect for police these days and the revenue gathering (by directive of central government) certainly contributes to this.
Add to that a recruitment drive to increase numbers promoted on the basis of career, income and education opportunities attracts the wrong types. People used to become police officers because it is what they wanted to do – (like becoming a fireman, pilot, teacher, builder) – not to get 50k a year and a free education.
I am positive most officers do the best they can but in recent years the number of police officers I have come across who look like council parking wardens has become a concern. They just don’t look like police anymore.
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February 22, 2010 10:50am
Redbaiter

An illegitimate and/ or out of wedlock birth is the biggest identifier of criminal behaviour. The celebration of single motherhood as a life style “option” has to cease.
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February 22, 2010 11:52am
Jack5

Those who read the posts in these threads of “Colonel Masters” until a month or two ago may be interested in this:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10627706

The report might have added that Colonel Masters was awarded the Military Cross for the feat, and was honoured by the Gurkhas.
Masters later was the last commander of the NZ artillery in Vietnam and led the final parade in Auckland, for which he was the subject of a prosecution by a peacenik.
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February 22, 2010 11:55am
bearhunter

“An illegitimate and/ or out of wedlock birth is the biggest identifier of criminal behaviour.”

I’ll tell my daughter to leave school now then and save time. Clearly all her education won’t be any help against her inherent criminal bastardry. She’ll be chuffed I’m sure.
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February 22, 2010 12:01pm
Pete George

“A sweeping unsubstantiated statement is an obvious identifier of bullshit”.
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February 22, 2010 12:03pm
LeftRightOut

Leave redbirther alone, he’s the funniest thing in my day.
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February 22, 2010 12:05pm
Yvette

Although many other factors have occurred to change the image of the police from when they concentrated on crime only, making them also responsible for traffic law enforcement has done a fair amount to change previous respect to frustration through to outright loathing and contempt from the general population.
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February 22, 2010 12:05pm
MT_Tinman

Redbaiter (8957) Says:
February 22nd, 2010 at 11:52 am

An illegitimate and/ or out of wedlock birth is the biggest identifier of criminal behaviour.

Marx, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot or one of your other heroes Red?
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February 22, 2010 12:09pm
MT_Tinman

Reading the reports and then the comments on this (and other) sites has been interesting this morning.

I can’t help wondering if, had so many people got their way and police were armed instead of simply carrying firearms in their vehicles, what are the chances there would now be an out-of-control nutter wandering around Oamaru with a loaded police pistol in his (or her) possession.
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February 22, 2010 12:15pm
Redbaiter

Wow, lots of Progressive style sentiment but no actual rebuttal to the claim. Check it out losers. Its a fact.
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February 22, 2010 12:16pm
Redbaiter

” Amazing how we have a generation of people whom think it is ok to kick the shit out of our Police! ”

It sounds as if (in the case of the police officer having his lip bitten off), that this was a male female police team.

There may have been a different outcome if it had been two male officers.

The politically correct idea that woman should work as front line police officers is behind this.

As females, they are naturally under strength and unable to fully back up their male colleagues in an assault situation.
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February 22, 2010 12:18pm
MikeNZ

How about another reason for disrespect for the law and Police officers?
Family Breakdown and the erosion of the basic building block of society.
http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/family_breakdown_and_the_natio.html
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February 22, 2010 1:19pm
Tim Ellis

It appears Labour’s new word of the week is “dithering”.
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February 22, 2010 1:51pm
Johnboy

Dithering is obviously a Labour word used world wide.

“Rage, despair and indecision. Inside Gordon Brown’s Number 10,” The Observer’s headline read, in reference to Brown’s No. 10 Downing Street office. ”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10627752

Seems like Gordon studied at the same charm school as our Trevor. 🙂
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February 22, 2010 2:35pm
MikeNZ

Here’s some places to not go travelling in.
Unless you like risk that is.
Loved the last sentence.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20100219.aspx

China wants more land.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20100220.aspx
why am I not surprised?
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February 22, 2010 2:43pm
Jack5

Empty-Tin Man posted at 12.15:

..can’t help wondering if, had so many people got their way and police were armed instead of simply carrying firearms in their vehicles, what are the chances there would now be an out-of-control nutter wandering around Oamaru with a loaded police pistol in his (or her) possession.

The police now don’t routinely carry firearms in their vehicles. There is a central car with a firearm that delivers them to patrol cars when needed, is my understanding.

Don’t worry about a police nutter with a pistol in Oamaru. Worry about when unarmed become tired of being shot at and refuse to help until armed-offender teams are alerted, called in, assembled, equipped, and finally dispatched.
They’ll be able to recover your corpse, though.
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February 22, 2010 3:15pm
MikeNZ

Just got my Investigate Mag.
Front cover has an article on The Green Police with a Policeman in a stop position.

Maybe we should add media lowering the respect for our police to the list!
or are they just reporting it?
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February 22, 2010 3:29pm
wreck1080

A report has come out, saying NZ has the lowest number of medical specialists per capita in the OECD.

Labour, amazingly, say this is not their fault.

Despite having reaped huge tax takes , and 7 years in power, labour still reckon they are not at fault.

I wonder, how many years in power would labour actually take some blame for a problem?

Labour are a bunch of arrogant pricks. They take no responsibility for anything. It is always someone elses fault.
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February 22, 2010 3:34pm
MT_Tinman

Jack5 (1548) Says:
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:15 pm

Empty-Tin Man posted at 12.15:

..can’t help wondering if, had so many people got their way and police were armed instead of simply carrying firearms in their vehicles, what are the chances there would now be an out-of-control nutter wandering around Oamaru with a loaded police pistol in his (or her) possession.

The police now don’t routinely carry firearms in their vehicles. There is a central car with a firearm that delivers them to patrol cars when needed, is my understanding.

Yes Jack … and the moon is made of green cheese and steamrollers do roll steam ….

I’ve a great line in used monuments you may be interested in.
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February 22, 2010 3:42pm
Whafe

wreck, that is the main problem with the vast majority of the population, nothing is anyones fault…. Not only do we have a generation where by kicking the shit out of the police is ok, we have a generation who dont give a fuck about others and nothing what so ever is their fault…….

I see it at work constantly with younger people, couldnt give a dam. Why phone ones place of work if I am sick, who cares, my employer can call me to see where I am….. What a crock of shit the state of the nation is….
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February 22, 2010 3:49pm
Pete George

nothing is anyones fault

– or it’s someone else’s fault.

Most of “the people” think it’s the government’s fault. The opposition says it’s the government’s fault. Crime is the fault of the police or the justice system. The right says it’s the left’s fault, and vice versa. The Christians say it’s the non-Christians fault, or the devil’s fault. Etc etc.

Religion used to keep a lot of the population under some sort of control but that has been slipping. In a way I think that’s not a bad thing, but it has left a bit of a moral vacuum. But going back to religion isn’t the answer.

It’s everyone’s fault but nobody’s.
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February 22, 2010 4:01pm
Pete George

Someone linked to this Fox poll, a remarkable albeit unscientific result.

What Is the Tea Party Movement About?

Small government and fiscal responsibility 8% (31,230 votes)
Exposing Democrats’ socialist agenda 1% (2,511 votes)
Voicing outrage at out-of-touch politicians 3% (11,715 votes)
Fruitless mix of racism, conspiracy theories 88% (331,646 votes)
Other (add your comment) <1% (1,676 votes)

Total Votes: 378,778
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/02/09/think-tea-party-movement/

I find that hard to believe.
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February 22, 2010 4:16pm
Redbaiter

” I find that hard to believe.”

Easily manipulated by left wing zealots. The White House employs them by the score. There are plenty of polls around to counter that finding. For example-

LA Times 17/12/09

Quote

The new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll is getting a lot of traction. According to the poll, 41% of likely voters now have a favorable opinion of the tea party disciples, compared with 35% for Democrats and 28% for Republicans.

Unquote
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February 22, 2010 4:30pm
MikeNZ

another snow job Pete.
be careful otherwise we’ll think of you like LUC.
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February 22, 2010 5:27pm
Steve

Seems the Fox Poll you can keep on voting?
More coruption.
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February 22, 2010 5:57pm
Hurf Durf

Hahaha, Delirium, that poll got spammed by the usual DU/Daily Kos/HuffingGlue Post weirdos and lunatics. Hold your excitement at bay.
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February 22, 2010 6:02pm
Johnboy

Shit it’s real neat round here tonight at GD. No mad Christians. They are all starting to turn up at the Bryan Laws wankfest.
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February 22, 2010 6:05pm
dad4justice

Oh neat John Boy Key and Crusher Non Event are going to make people serve jail for bashing a cop.
Who in their right mind trust and respect the New Zealand police? Biggest gang of thugs in kiwiland! Fact ! Build more prisons Blue Wimps.
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February 22, 2010 6:08pm
Johnboy

You are onto there Dad it’s a waste of time building more prisons, we should just shoot the pricks for bashing a cop.
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February 22, 2010 6:10pm
dad4justice

Oh yeah how are the keystones going getting closure on the Kirsty Bentley case. Ouch that hurt central~!

Come on thugs have another go – eh Greg?
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February 22, 2010 6:12pm
Luc Hansen

I listened to Matthew Hooten and Andrew Campbell on RNZ’s Nine to Noon show, the kind of extended and serious debate that just does not exist on commercial radio stations.

I agree with Hooten that Key is the beneficiary of consistently high poll ratings, yet his agenda is curiously timid. Think back to the mantra since the ascension of Don Brash to the national leader’s throne, and carried on by John Key, of how good for us tax cuts are. Yet, even in tandem with ACT, we are getting fiddling and tweaking and there is simply no evidence of enacting the philosphy that has been so promoted by both the parties of the right.

If ever there was an opportune time to enact radical reform, and ride the coat tails of favourable ratings at least through the next election, this is the time. Rodney Hide has sacrificed principles for baubles, leaving the battle to a sidelined Roger Douglas.

Now we have to be honest and say a genuinely progressive tax system has not delivered the level of economic growth needed to fund our public services to the extent we are used to, so the alternatives that were on offer duirng the campaign should be enacted, forthwith.

And last time I posted on this, someone said that we can’t do it now because of the recession, but that’s just admitting low taxes are a fairweather policy only.

So I’m disappointed. It is the time to see if the Brash agenda would work or not. Let’s do it.
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February 22, 2010 6:35pm
Hurf Durf

Malmo’s Muslims and their complicit left-wing mayor force Jews out.

How wonderfully progressive and social democratic.
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February 22, 2010 6:55pm
kaya

Luc – “a genuinely progressive tax system has not delivered the level of economic growth needed to fund our public services to the extent we are used to”.

NO tax system will EVER deliver economic growth. That comes from increased productivity, not an excel spreadsheet and tinkering around the edges. Only bureaucrats, economists, the tooth fairy and benefit bludgers of all types and hue believe you can make money from nothing.
The answer to funding our public service is the same as for any individual. Income must equal expenses. If you can’t increase income then you have to reduce expenses. Slash the bureaucracy. Budget problem solved and productivity increased at the same time! (less muppets to slow down real work.)
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February 22, 2010 7:19pm
kaya

On a lighter note, what happened to spare us having to listen to Billy B/Dorker every day? I heard he got banned but I was out of the loop for a couple of months, an extended period at one of Farrar’s favourite haunts. 🙂 –

(and on my way back for another extended “work trip” – life sucks sometimes…….)
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February 22, 2010 7:28pm
Steve

kaya, quiet please. Don’t mention the B or the RIPed P
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February 22, 2010 7:41pm
Steve

Any time now someone is going to blow a gasket on “Brady Chadwick”
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February 22, 2010 7:47pm
Johnboy

Shunda’s arrived there (though he seems to be a moderate Xtian).
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February 22, 2010 7:53pm
Kris K

Johnboy 6:05 pm,

Shit it’s real neat round here tonight at GD. No mad Christians. They are all starting to turn up at the Bryan Laws wankfest.

Don’t worry, Johnboy, there’s always at least one “really staunch” Christian keeping an eye on you – the “moderate” ones are no threat, and will remove themselves when the going gets tough and it’s time to fight.
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February 22, 2010 8:03pm
jaba

My worry with the Nats is the Maori Party and racist Tariana Turia. She is getting more and more bolshy (the whanau ora “confusion” and the dreaded foreshore thing). As far as she is concerned, there will be no sharing as it belongs to Maori .. end of.
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February 22, 2010 8:05pm
MikeNZ

Kris why did you fall for the bait.
I thought we’d agreed to stay on the high ground and just pray for them today?
We weren’t supposed to come down into the mud and wrestle with them.
My garments will get dirty 🙂
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February 22, 2010 8:06pm
MikeNZ

Jaba
that’s what they believe, they never will accept that they are part of Kiwiland now and we are all equal.
Rather we are part of them and they are numero uno.

The UN is backing that rubbish up with the indigenous peoples crap.
You watch John Key and the progressive Nats sign on…
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February 22, 2010 8:11pm
Kris K

MikeNZ 8:06 pm,

Kris why did you fall for the bait.
I thought we’d agreed to stay on the high ground and just pray for them today?
We weren’t supposed to come down into the mud and wrestle with them.
My garments will get dirty

I was missing Johnboy – especially after not talking to him or anyone else on KB yesterday (day of rest) and most of today.

Sad for both of us that the commander in chief requires us to dwell down here in the ‘mud’ – at least we have the assurance of a mansion up in the ‘high ground’ – ticket’s booked and the bags are packed – just waiting for final departure details.

I’m going to be unsocial and go watch ‘Band of Brothers’ – have some tea too.
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February 22, 2010 8:28pm
Pete George

Being presumptuous on blogs might be a black mark Kris.
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February 22, 2010 8:35pm
Luc Hansen

kaya, that sounds a pretty good summing up of the Brash/Key (the original Key)/ACT programme. So why aren’t we getting it now they are in power? How can we ever settle the endless debate if we don’t actually try it?
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February 22, 2010 8:57pm
Luc Hansen

If the price of conceding atheism is wrong is my prayers being answered and Kris K transported elsewhere, it may well be a price I’m willing to pay!
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February 22, 2010 8:59pm
Johnboy

If Kris is missing me should I be concerned?
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February 22, 2010 9:02pm
wreck1080

heard of the bloombox? google it, there may be an energy revolution on the way….
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February 22, 2010 10:38pm
minto57

I blame the demise of corporal punishment myself. This is borne out by the number of assaults on teachers,
You just have to watch the police show and listen to all the fing and blinding going on to know these eejits have no respect.
In my day that was a sure way to spend a night in a cell
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February 22, 2010 11:44pm
pjje

Hi there Martin. Hope the Big Brown is treating you well.

And Hi there Luc. It’s short. And for reasons that may not be obvious, easy to remember.

Qumsiyeh was interesting. Hard to see from the website exactly what his field is, but his comments in the letter toi the Ambassadors Journal are interresting. In fact not entirely confident of the quality of his contributins as a scientist. But I digress, for some of what he writes is interesting. He points to close affinities between Palestinians and some Jewish groups, and some distance among Jewish groups. Not inconsistent, I guess, with a finding that one Jewish group has particularly strong ties of descent to Israel. and evidence in support of that particular group’s connection with Israel. And, of course, if there was a tie to Israel at some point in the past, well, being a descendent of someone who left is not of itself a particularly sound claim for being able to go back.

I guess my real point is that I don’t see any real contribution that I can make there, but I see a lesson in it for us. A kibbutznik who grows up with Irgun and the Stern Gang as part of the mythology, the real fear of weapons overhead, terrorist attacks a regular feature of the news, is hardly likely to be a turn the other cheek type. Especially if the dominant paradigm is an eye for an eye. Similarly, a Palestinian who saw grandad’s olive trees of many generations cut down to provide a better field of fire from an illegal settrlement is hardly likely to take a charitable view of the new neighbours.

It’s a cesspool, and not the only one. But it does suggest something about the importance of good sewage systems. Which is why it suggests to me that the Waitangi claims process has real value.

As for the Book … perhaps more likely to stick with Boney M (even Lady Gaga), actually.

I should try to get online earlier. But I have a life. I don’t know how the rest of you manage it.
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February 22, 2010 11:47pm

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