General Debate 9 January 2009

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Redbaiter

Conservatives Finish 2009 as No. 1 Ideological Group

PRINCETON, NJ — The increased conservatism that Gallup first identified among Americans last June persisted throughout the year, so that the final year-end political ideology figures confirm Gallup’s initial reporting: conservatives (40%) outnumbered both moderates (36%) and liberals (21%) across the nation in 2009.

More broadly, the percentage of Americans calling themselves either conservative or liberal has increased over the last decade, while the percentage of moderates has declined.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124958/Conservatives-Finish-2009-No-1-Ideological-Group.aspx
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January 9, 2010 10:54am
Pete George

More on suppression and the Whale

Andrew Geddis considers the range of competing principles and issues raised by the case of blogger Cameron Slater.

His current quest for martyrdom raises complex, important and quite urgent questions.

Some serious and sensible people have been thinking about it too. In fact, in a rather nice coincidence of timing, the Law Commission reported its recommendations on reforming the law on name suppression to Parliament just two days before Mr Slater had his date with destiny.

http://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/opinion/88483/the-complex-issue-name-suppression
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January 9, 2010 10:55am
Dr. Strangelove

Phone book more popular than congress.

More voters have greater confidence in the telephone book these days than in the current Congress, and most think their national legislators are paid too much to boot,” Rasmussen reported.

45% of voters would rather pick names randomly from the phone book to run Congress than to have Nancy Pelosi, et al, in charge, a Rasmussen Poll found.

Only 36% disagree.

http://insidetheasylum.blogsome.com/2010/01/08/how-democracies-die/
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January 9, 2010 11:05am
Swiftman the infidel

Has anyone read and been appalled at the article in the Perspectives section of Granny Herald today by that intellectual poser and Marxist John Roughan?
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January 9, 2010 11:31am
Jack5

Colonel John Masters, well known to fellow Kiwblog followers, has a book out. Has anyone seen reviews of this most interesting biography by Allan Marriott, obviously developed from memoirs of the colonel? I haven’t seen any reviews in the MSM, but it’s a very good.

Masters won the Military Cross for his rescue of a wounded Ghurka NCO behind Indonesian lines in Borneo jungle in 1965 during the Confrontation. His bravery was right up there with Willy Apiata’s VC rescue in Afghanistan.

In Vietnam, Masters was the last commander of the NZ artillery battery. He led its motorcade through Auckland on the battery’s return to NZ, and was scandalously privately prosecuted for this by a protester.

However, the colonel, who later commanded Burnham Camp, did his greatest service to NZ in his prominent role in the fight to win recognition and help for NZ veterans of Vietnam, and gain acceptance of the effects on them of Agent Orange. The book indicates some prominent people who come out of this in a poor light, including former Governor-General Sir Paul Reeves for his original inquiry, and even perhaps Jenny Shipley. To be fair to a common Kiwiblog target, Helen Clark, originally an anti-Vietnam protester, H1 helped Masters and the veterans.

In Christchurch, Colonel Masters helped save the Rannerdale veterans home, and raised money to add a hospital wing.

The colonel is now in another fight, this time against cancer, and this may account for his posts being absent from Kiwiblog in the last few weeks.

He worked in a bank before compulsory military training introduced him to the army. John Master’s parents in Southland suffered their own tragedy, and John’s wife and children put up with living in 18 different homes during his Army career. All this adds a nice personal touch to the story.

This is a most worthwhile book. Published by the Masters family, it might not be easy to find, but you can go to the web site: http://www.abridgeover.net or if you go to a bookshop you can put them in touch with the distributor at http://www.nationwidebooks.co.nz

If you are feeling charitable, it would be a great gift for a Vietnam veteran or a veteran’s family, or to a library. The treatment of NZ’s Vietnam vets is a disgraceful part of our history. Neither this nor the brave colonel should be forgotten.

The book’s title: A Bridge Over: the story of John Masters, veteran fighter. By Allan Marriott.
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January 9, 2010 11:54am
reid

Yeah I read it Swiftman and I entirely approve.

What he says is self-evident and always was. The thing that amazes me is that while many see straight through the propaganda ploy that is the AGW hysteria, those same people fail to see that exactly the same techniques are deployed in the so-called “war on terror.”

Of course terrorism is real and it is a fact of life. But the factual actual degree of threat as portrayed in the world’s media is completely out of line with what the reality is.

Why most people can’t see that both threats have been pumped up to hysterical proportions is beyond me. It’s as plain as day.
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January 9, 2010 11:58am
Kris K

Redbaiter 10:54 am,

Conservatives Finish 2009 as No. 1 Ideological Group

PRINCETON, NJ — The increased conservatism that Gallup first identified among Americans last June persisted throughout the year, so that the final year-end political ideology figures confirm Gallup’s initial reporting: conservatives (40%) outnumbered both moderates (36%) and liberals (21%) across the nation in 2009.

More broadly, the percentage of Americans calling themselves either conservative or liberal has increased over the last decade, while the percentage of moderates has declined.

Reading between the lines it seems apparent that it’s harder to sit on the fence in these modern ‘enlightened’ times – Conservatives up, Liberals up, Moderates down.
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January 9, 2010 12:00pm
andrei

Of course terrorism is real and it is a fact of life. But the factual actual degree of threat as portrayed in the world’s media is completely out of line with what the reality is.

Really?
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January 9, 2010 12:03pm
big bruv

Speaking of name suppression….

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3217852/Fiji-police-probe-sexual-harassment-claims-against-ex-All-Black
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January 9, 2010 12:04pm
reid

“Really?”

Yes andrei. Shame you don’t see it. Now don’t get all hysterical, will you.
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January 9, 2010 12:06pm
big bruv

“Why most people can’t see that both threats have been pumped up to hysterical proportions is beyond me. It’s as plain as day.”

This from a person who thinks that 9/11 was an inside job.
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January 9, 2010 12:06pm
reid

“This from a person who thinks that 9/11 was an inside job.”

No I don’t think that bb and have never said it so try not to hallucinate.

What I have said is that the official story is complete bollocks. The fact that you and many others can’t discern the difference between that position and leap to conclude that therefore what I’m really saying is that it was an inside job, is an indication of your complete and utter inability to analyse the facts about that event. Possibly caused by hysteria which always clouds one’s thinking.
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January 9, 2010 12:10pm
Yvette

Regarding the whaling controversy, instead of getting a $ 1.5 million vessel sunk by dare devil pirate stunts in challenging a situation which flies in the face of Japanese ‘saving face’, which ‘scientific whaling’ probably is, why do protesters not arrange a subsidy to make free whale watch trips available from Kaikura for Japanese tourists? It would be a better story for whaling and New Zealand if international media could report such a scheme. Run competitions in Japan and fly the winners out here for whale watching. Hell, get McDonald’s, Coke, Kodak, Animal Planet to sponsor it.
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January 9, 2010 12:11pm
Patrick Starr

“Run competitions in Japan and fly the winners out here for whale watching”

what a great idea!. It could be like an al fresco live fish restaurant – if we could figure out a way to number the whales so they could choose one they could have it on their plate that night

the fillet o’ fish just got upsized!
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January 9, 2010 12:23pm
Swiftman the infidel

‘Why most people can’t see that both threats have been pumped up to hysterical proportions is beyond me. It’s as plain as day.’

reid you are an idiot and like all idiots you don’t realize that you are one. People like you should have to wear a tee-shirt that reads ‘I’m Stupid’ so the rest of us can make allowances for you.

Islam has SUCCESSFULLY been a threat to:

Indonesia
Pakistan
Bangladesh
Nigeria
Egypt
Turkey
Iran
Sudan
Algeria
Afghanistan
Morocco
Iraq
Malaysia
Saudi Arabia
Uzbekistan
Yemen
Syria
Kazakhstan
Niger
Burkina Faso
Mali
Senegal
Tunisia
Guinea
Somalia
Azerbaijan
Tajikistan
Sierra Leone
Libya
Jordan
United Arab Emirates
Kyrgyzstan
Turkmenistan
Chad
Lebanon
Kuwait
Albania
Mauritania
Oman
Kosovo
The Gambia
Bahrain
Comoros
Qatar
Djibouti
Brunei
Maldives
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January 9, 2010 12:27pm
Pete George

It’s not the presence of a threat that is the issue, it’s the degree of threat and the appropriateness of the response and fear. There are a lot of things causing substantially more problems and risks to us here than “terrorism”.
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January 9, 2010 12:36pm
Bok2

Reid
Your ability to come up with some of the most banal statements leaves me scratching my head most of the time.

“Of course terrorism is real and it is a fact of life. But the factual actual degree of threat as portrayed in the world’s media is completely out of line with what the reality is.”

I will join andrei with the following….
jakarta
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/1/382584_a4b2a108d7.jpg
http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2009/07/17/1225751/422900-jakarta-bombing.jpg
Pakistan
http://www.morehouse.edu/themaroontiger/Pakistan%20Bombing-AP.jpg
Bali
http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/bali-bomb-blast.jpg
Red Sea
http://www.cbc.ca/news/photogalleries/egypt_bomb/images/01.jpg
Madrid
http://www.france24.com/en/files/imagecache/france24_ct_player_thumbnail/story/madrid-attentat-m.jpg
London
http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/filmi_sangeet/media/2005_London_Bombing.jpg
http://www.cultureshop.org/cat_img/77COMP.jpg

You pillick! You have no idea about terrorism. Probably never been out of NZ.
You want reality? I was here when this happened…
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/06/10/alg_ahmed.jpg

But even if you are to sheltered to know about those have a look at this…
http://ladylibertas.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/al-qaeda-nyt.jpg
or read this ….
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/10/application-of-divine-judgement-on-a-contractor-working-for-the-crusaders.html

I can go on and on. However I will bow to you superior knowledge in these matters. You obviously have been to these places and seen these events. And although I have only been there when one had happened (Dar Es Salaam) I have been at Ground Zero and also at the Bali site. I must admit that I might have seen things out of context a bit. imagined the devastation because of media reports…

But you know what pisses me off more than anything? Is the fact that I and others have lost friends and family in what you so blithely describe as “exaggerated”. Now the fact that you have displayed your juvenile view on world affairs here on many occasions, does in fact excuse you to some degree. However a bit of advice.. engage brain before opening mouth because if you talk this type of crap within physical earshot of some-one whose life has been forever changed by some-one having the fanatical belief that they are going into the arms of virgins for murdering others….. you might have a less than pleasant experience yourself.

I suggest you tell us about your summer holiday or what you did for New Years…. Less offensive, less crap, far more valid and of some value.
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January 9, 2010 12:37pm
Bok2

“Really?”

Yes andrei. Shame you don’t see it. Now don’t get all hysterical, will you.
Just how old are you Reid?
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January 9, 2010 12:42pm
reid

Exactly right Pete, that’s the point, and it’s just a great pity that people like Swiftman can’t see the plain and simple fact that just like the warmists, they too are behaving like useful idiots, it’s just that their useful idiocy is played out in a different arena.

Bok2, it’s a pity that I have to use insulting tactics to penetrate the hysteria, I would love to address people who believe in the war on terror as adults, but unfortunately, their hysteria makes them like children so I treat them like children. Condescending I know but if they stop being hysterical then I’ll stop treating them like children.

Ironic really that their hysteria prevents them from seeing it.
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January 9, 2010 12:42pm
democracymum

I’m thinking the choice of pink for the new Air NZ uniforms is a BIG mistake!
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January 9, 2010 12:43pm
Bok2

Posted a long piece for you reid with photos. unfortunately it did not load.
I have been at one of these things happening. myself and others have lost friends and families in these events.
You have no idea and with Pete again spout off about things you know nothing about.

Tell us about what you did at christmas or where you went on holiday. It is more valid and more in line with your level of understanding of the real world.

And it is not hysteria. I was in Auckland comforting a mother and father because they thought their daughter was caught up in the London bombing. She was not able to let them know that she fortunately missed her bus that day.

You pillick.

Pete sometimes you make sense, in this you are out of your league….
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January 9, 2010 12:52pm
reid

Bok2 you just illustrated my point.

The issue we are discussing is the proportionality of the security response to the actual threat. That’s not the perceived threat that’s the actual threat.

That’s a factual hard objective question in which there is no place whatsoever for human emotion.

By bringing subjective considerations in as you just did in your 12:52, you simply cloud the issue and as soon as that happens, it becomes difficult to discern where objectivity stops and subjectivity begins.
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January 9, 2010 12:59pm
Yvette

‘ “Run competitions in Japan and fly the winners out here for whale watching”
what a great idea!. It could be like an al fresco live fish restaurant – if we could figure out a way to number the whales so they could choose one they could have it on their plate that night ‘

Well, maybe it is a dumb idea, but it can’t be dumber than what is happening in the southern oceans.
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January 9, 2010 1:16pm
Bok2

Reid
1) You are way under qualified to report on proportionality of response. You are doing it on hearsay… and that is my point.
2) 20 years of being in and out of war zones sometimes as combatant and sometimes as recorder of record and sometimes as an unwitting tourist means I do not have a gut reaction, neither do I buy 3/4 of the BS spouted by media.
3) Being involved with the media for over two decades also gives me an understanding and the ability to see when people are just regurgitating populist ideas… like you are.
4) You have no idea what is subjective and what is not. Your arrogance in deciding that my “subjectivity clouds the issue” shows your total lack of intellect. I’ll try and be clearer. Been there seen it, lived it. Got out the other side. You chat about it with your school chums.
5)”That’s a factual hard objective question in which there is no place whatsoever for human emotion.” the single most pretentious bit of writing I have seen in a long time. Where do you get this shit? From a GI Joe comic? I’ll try to explain. You are dealing with a group or groups of people who believe that by blowing themselves up and killing others they are rewarded with virgins in the afterlife. You are dealing with people who believe that drawing cartoons of their prophet or cracking a joke at their prophet means you must die. You are talking about people who hate the Americans and the English beyond any reason. Forget justified. It is just pure hatred. And before you start your justification crap, just think Falangong and Tibet and Dafur if you want real nasty shit forced on people without the same level of hatred in retaliation. There is no justification. This is not about facts. You do not know the facts about the retaliation and you do not know the facts about the original and the failed attempts at terrorism.
6) I spent some years researching the irish conflict for a series I will do one day on conflict ( For Nat Geo). I spoke to two people who were actively involved in the fighting. One from each side. Both told of about a 10 to 20 % successrate on planned attacks that actually suceeded or was not foiled in some way.
In Africa I was with the security forces in the Caprivi and Angola. You get your info from??

And the best one of all. Bok2 you illustrate my point. You are very funny, if not a little sad.
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January 9, 2010 1:24pm
Patrick Starr

sorry Yvette. I didnt think it was a dumb idea – was just having a bit of fun
my take on the matter is who the hell do we/they think they are telling the japs whats ok to eat or not – it’s part of their culture that dates back before the maori got lost and stumbled across NZ – or is it on maori culture we are forced to respect?
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January 9, 2010 1:30pm
Bok2

I read some of the stuff written by people here and I would just like to share something that I overheard one day.

First people make judgment call on things like terror attack etc from a distance. Or Israel. I believe if you have not been and seen something first hand then you are on dangerous ground when commenting. It is a bit like the anti smacking debate.

I overheard the following. In a discussion one lady was laying down the law to another on how to bring up children and how to deal with the whole discipline issue. The lady being lectured countered with. “Are you a parent?” What has that got to do with it?” was the reply “Having children does not neccesarily make you a good parent”, “No” was the reply “it does not, but having no children means that you are not a parent at all. And that means you cannot be a good or a bad parent. And there is nothing to measure your opinion against”
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January 9, 2010 1:36pm
reid

“You are dealing with a group or groups of people who believe that by blowing themselves up and killing others they are rewarded with virgins in the afterlife…It is just pure hatred.”

Yes agree Bok2 and have always seen terrorists in that light but so what?

The question is: does the terrorist threat justify the various security actions taken in its name: e.g. invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, evisceration of constitutional rights, implementation of extraordinarily powerful and intrusive security measures that have the potential in the wrong hands for widespread misuse. That’s the question and I’m not sure why it’s necessary to have first-hand experience of a terror event in order to be able it answer it properly.

BTW, my response to that question is that some of those actions are necessary, and some aren’t. Also that some of the necessary actions have been implemented in such an appallingly clumsy way that if someone were deliberately intending to exacerbate terrorism rather than to mitigate it, then they couldn’t have done a better job. And I don’t believe those responsible for the planning of those actions were in any way stupid people.
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January 9, 2010 1:50pm
Yvette

While eating whale meat may be based in culture, it would seem to be dropping in popularity – the Japanese apparently have stocks of it due to low consumption.
However, having been to Japan a few times, I get an inkling of another cultural aspect: ‘face’ or ‘loss of face’, and I would think those demonstrating in the southern oceans are absolutely wasting their time and money. There must be a more constructive way of reducing what popularity still exists in Japan for whale meat, to the point where ‘scientific whaling’ becomes uneconomic.
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January 9, 2010 1:53pm
Bok2

So in fact what you saying Reid is, “I agree with some, not with others, i just pontificate on what ever I feel.” Based on hearsay, grounded in a lack of understanding and formulated into an OPINION.

Look you will always be the armchair general, like with Israel etc. No matter proof is offered, what facts are on the table, you just get painted into a corner and then try to escape by subtly changing your story again and again. (If you want I can link with our discussion on 911some 8 months back.) The point is that you argue for the sake of it and not on facts. I am off to the beach, it is 38 degrees and sunny here.
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January 9, 2010 2:07pm
minto57

Canabalism and slavery used to be a cutural aspects of Maori.
Anyone promoting these under ther guise of scientic research would be condemmed for participating in illegal behaviour
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January 9, 2010 2:12pm
reid

“No matter proof is offered, what facts are on the table, you just get painted into a corner and then try to escape by subtly changing your story again and again. The point is that you argue for the sake of it and not on facts.”

Bok2, what “facts” would you like, what “proof” have you offered and where have I ever “subtly changed my story?”
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January 9, 2010 2:22pm
Southern Raider

Look whats happened to Luc’s mentor

“Egypt on Friday declared renegade British lawmaker George Galloway persona non grata, accusing him of incitement after his harsh criticism of Cairo over delays in an aid convoy’s entry into Gaza, the foreign ministry said Friday”
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January 9, 2010 2:30pm
Patrick Starr

“Canabalism and slavery used to be a cutural aspects of Maori”

if you’re suggesting cultures should change to meet todays ‘western standards’ then I agree with you.
Perhaps if we start in our own backyard instead of someone elses it may sit better. Whilst canabalism and slavery may have stopped many other practises should be left for what they are
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January 9, 2010 2:44pm
Kris K

democracymum 12:43 pm,

I’m thinking the choice of pink for the new Air NZ uniforms is a BIG mistake!

Is that for the men (I use the term advisedly), the women, or both?
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January 9, 2010 3:39pm
Kris K

Yvette 1:53 pm,

However, having been to Japan a few times, I get an inkling of another cultural aspect: ‘face’ or ‘loss of face’, and I would think those demonstrating in the southern oceans are absolutely wasting their time and money. There must be a more constructive way of reducing what popularity still exists in Japan for whale meat, to the point where ’scientific whaling’ becomes uneconomic.

The issue of Japanese ‘loss of face’ is an important one to remember. (Many Asian countries also have this same concept.)
I’m sure that in WWII the Japs would have fought to the last man if the bomb hadn’t been dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

While we in the West may not like to admit we are wrong, generally, when presented with enough evidence, the Western mind will at least reconsider and change our stance. This is not case with the more fixed Japanese/Asian individual.

No doubt this is part of the issue with the practice of whaling carried out by the Japs.
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January 9, 2010 3:49pm
tristanb

Some prominent New Zealanders:

Entertainer – Sexually assaulted 16-year-old in Wellington
Comedian – Sexually assaulted 4-year-old in Auckland
National figure – Indecently assaulted a 13-year-old in Nelson
All Black – Sexually assaulted a 15-year-old in Fiji

All Blacks and entertainers are the type of people put up for the Order of New Zealand. Sick.
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January 9, 2010 3:51pm
Inventory2

tristanb – you left out the Olympian – raped his wife (allegedly, of course)
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January 9, 2010 5:32pm
searching

“A former national figure has appeared in court in Nelson on a charge of indecently assaulting a 13-year-old girl. ”

lower case national? Hyphenated?
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January 9, 2010 6:43pm
starboard

..im still tryin to figure out who the comedian is..most seem to know exept moi..
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January 9, 2010 6:49pm
dad4justice

Don’t worry starboard ,it’s not your fault, as there is that many celebrity sexual predators getting court ordered name suppression one can hardly keep up with all the perverts. Just look at the corrupt filth that sit behind the bench and one can see why.
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January 9, 2010 6:59pm
Fletch

A site, Popular Technology, has gathered together news stories from all of last year (375 stories to be exact) that show many records were broken in 2009 for new low temperatures. And it’s supposed to be warming up?

Link: http://www.populartechnology.net/2010/01/global-cooling-in-2009.html
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January 9, 2010 11:00pm
Owen McShane

I presume that if there was an exceptional heat wave stretching across North America, Europe and Asia and China the AGW alarmists would claim that too would be just “weather” and no indicator of what might be happening to the climate – while watching the pigs fly by.

Something like this though (warming in the Arctic) is obviously a sign of climate change is it not?

US Weather Bureau Report:
“The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. ”
>
Sorry, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post.
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January 10, 2010 11:39am
Southern Raider

Check out the article on Minto on page A4 of the SST times. This sums this wanker and the left up completely.

He is quoted saying that the the idea of Israel in the 67 war fighting against the rest of the Arabs who wanted to drive the Jews into the sea is all just a CONSTRUCTED MYTH.

Fact
– Israel had a population of around 3 to 4 million
– Israel could be split in two easily as the narrowest point between the 67 border and the sea was only several km’s
– Israel is directly bordered by 4 hostile neighbours who brought armoured divisions and guns up to the borders
– Hostile neighbours and there supporting Middle East countries totalled into the hundreds of millions
– UN wanted nothing to do with it
– Many of the hostile neighbouring leaders are quoted as stating the Jews will be driven into the see and Israel will not exists once we have finished. In fact they stated this would only take two weeks max
– The Arab countries actually asked the Arabs living in Israel to leave because they would then be able to have no risk of friendly fire incidents (eg could have a scorched earth policy) and told them they could then come back and take what they wanted

Someone needs to quickly ask him whether the Holocaust is a myth as well.

Unfortunately the ill informed chardonnay socialists and liberal students soak this bullshit up and then spread it through their jobs in the MSM.
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January 10, 2010 12:10pm

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