General Debate 4 January 2009

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democracymum

I see 100,000 people in Britain are using Facebook to register their disgust at a forthcoming march to be held in their streets by a group of radical Islamists

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1240318/100-000-people-Facebook-protest-Islamic-extremist-march-military-town.html

It is good to see that moderate muslims are also speaking out against this group’s actions.
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January 4, 2010 9:31am
Whafe

Will be interesting to see how the men in blue cover this one up = http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10618332
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January 4, 2010 9:35am
Neil

Looks like that this year will be a defining year for Liberalism in the USA.
Obama’s naivity has been exposed again with his less than stellar performances with Homeland Security.The Republicans will always win the security issue over the “dovish” Democrats.His bumbling efforts do not inspire confidence.
Obama has a strangely detached view on security and military matters. As though he thinks that aspect of life is more contaminated than Healthcare and Climate change.
Watching Fox News one of the panel stated that this will be the year when Obama changes course rightwards after his likely Democratic party defeats in November.
Just goes to show how the US public were mislead by the charismnatic inexperience of a candidate. Obama had never run anything and as well had not created wealth as an entrepeneur. All he knows is the “public teat” which he is succeeding to milk dry.
At this time the US should be encouraging growth by tax lowering, instead Healthcare and Cap and Trade proposals are going to rip the “guts” from the US economy. “Stagflation” for this year,inevitable after high taxing and high spending.
This year is pivotal for Obama. Unemployment still at a high 8% by the end of the year spells disaster for the flames of Liberalism. Hopefully Obama will repeat Carter’s efforts between 76-80 and be a one term failure.
Obama, a much overrated man. All hot air and nothing coherent.Old politics of the Chicago school of Richard Daley.
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January 4, 2010 9:40am
Repton

Oh no, Facebook! I’m sure that has the radicals trembling in their boots! Imagine — 100,000 people took a few seconds away from turning each other into vampires or writing on people’s walls to make an expression of vague dislike!

Yeesh. If it’s something they actually care about, they should organise a counter-march. But unlike joining a facebook group, that requires actual effort.
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January 4, 2010 9:45am
Whafe

Very well put Neil, have very good friends in the US of A as do many of us I guess. The slope is steep and narrow and Obama is starting to loose his step, of which he never really had….

Will be very interesting to see if in fact he is a one termer, I very much think he will be……

Am indeed surprised nothing has gone down thus far in his first term….. The people of the US of A are getting wise to the great BS of Obama
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January 4, 2010 9:49am
eszett

Obama’s naivity has been exposed again with his less than stellar performances with Homeland Security.The Republicans will always win the security issue over the “dovish” Democrats.His bumbling efforts do not inspire confidence.

hmm, remind me again, who was it that created homeland security and dreamed up how all the Intelligence agencies will be working together and sharing information? Who had 8 years in office to work it all out?

Ah yes, the republicans, the ones so great on security issues.
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January 4, 2010 9:58am
Redbaiter

” Oh no, Facebook! ”

As usual Repton, you’re missing the point, which is that the internet is providing a focal point and an outlet for points of view that the left wing media will not publish.

Its all about breaking the monopoly the left have on information and discussion.

” they should organise a counter-march ”

Really?? You’re such a genius.
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January 4, 2010 10:00am
Owen McShane

I have just been checking Wikipedia to see if they have been rewriting their entries on the Mediavel Warm period etc and they do now seem to recognise it did happen but with several obfuscations.
Their entry on the LIA is particularly entertaining. It reads:

Little Ice Age
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

“The reconstructed depth of the Little Ice Age varies between different studies (anomalies shown are from the 1950-80 reference period).
The Little Ice Age (LIA) was a period of cooling that occurred after a warmer era known as the Medieval Warm Period. While not a true ice age, the term was introduced into scientific literature by François E. Matthes in 1939.[1] It is conventionally defined as a period extending from the 16th to the 19th centuries[2][3][4] though climatologists and historians working with local records no longer expect to agree on either the start or end dates of this period, which varied according to local conditions. It is generally agreed that there were threeminima, beginning about 1650, about 1770, and 1850, each separated by intervals of slight warming.[5] TheIntergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) describes areas affected by the LIA:
Evidence from mountain glaciers does suggest increased glaciation in a number of widely spread regions outside Europe prior to the 20th century, including Alaska, New Zealand and Patagonia. However, the timing of maximum glacial advances in these regions differs considerably, suggesting that they may represent largely independent regional climate changes, not a globally-synchronous increased glaciation. Thus current evidence does not support globally synchronous periods of anomalous cold or warmth over this timeframe, and the conventional terms of “Little Ice Age” and “Medieval Warm Period” appear to have limited utility in describing trends in hemispheric or global mean temperature changes in past centuries… [Viewed] hemispherically, the “Little Ice Age” can only be considered as a modest cooling of the Northern Hemisphere during this period of less than 1°C relative to late 20th century levels.[6]
There is more recent evidence that cold periods in the time frame of the LIA occurred at several locations in the Southern Hemisphere.[7]
Several causes have been proposed: cyclical lows in solar radiation, heightened volcanic activity, slowed oceanic currents, and decreased human populations due to the Black Death and the Columbian Exchange.”

In case the links in the last line don’t work here is the most innovative explanation for the LIA I have ever read:

Anthropogenic influences
“William Ruddiman has proposed that somewhat reduced populations of Europe, East Asia, and the Middle East during and after the Black Death caused a decrease in agricultural activity. He suggests reforestation took place, allowing more carbon dioxide uptake from the atmosphere, which may have been a factor in the cooling noted during the Little Ice Age. Ruddiman further hypothesizes that a reduced population in the Americas after European contact in the early 1500s could have had similar effect.[56][57] A 2008 study of sediment cores and soil samples further suggests that carbon-dioxide uptake via reforestation in the Americas could have contributed to the Little Ice Age.[58] This hypothesis has not gained widespread scientific support.”
[edit]

I would say that the last sentence “The hypothesis has not gained widespread scientific support” would have to be the understatement of the year. William Ruddiman must have been a script writer for Monty Python.
He seems to want us to believe that crowing roosters make the sun rise and falling leaves cause the winter.

I have long been interested in the origins of the Industrial revolution and the role of the Black Death in that transformation and my wife studied Medieval history at Massey extra mural.

Every text and novel I know of tells us that the beginning of the Little Ice Age (the cooling after the MWP peak in 1000 brought on the Black Death and then sustained it from 1650 on because the population became undernourished and weakened by all manner of colds and flus, and their response was to huddle in their huts with the animals inside for warmth which made it easier for fleas to jump from host to host etc. It also stopped the Polynesian migrations to NZ and Easter Island. Hardly local.

But these clowns want us to believe that the plague caused the LIA by killing off the people who then let the forests grow!

Have they considered the time scales involved?

The main problem I have with Ruddiman’s general thesis that agriculture has been forcing climate change for 8,000 years is that the human population was truly trivial for most of that time. We are talking millions, not billions and once again he assumes that agriculture releases ghgs but absorbs none.

About twenty million died during the first great plague of the 14th century. Is that really enough to change the global climate? That’s the population of greater Los Angeles.
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January 4, 2010 10:03am
Redbaiter

Eszett is quite obviously in sync with the intelligentsia who elected Obama-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI&feature=player_embedded
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January 4, 2010 10:06am
pdm

This proposed march is very inflammatory as Wootton Basset is the town where the bodies of the British Soldiers are brought back to from Iran and Afghanistan, there is an RAF base there.

I doubt the march will be allowed to proceed through there by the authorities and will be moved to another town or city.

All hell could break loose if it goes ahead.
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January 4, 2010 10:08am
Jack5

Repton posted at 9.45 am on the Facebook protest against an Islamic fundamentalist march (link in 9.31am post):

…If it’s something they actually care about, they should organise a counter-march. But unlike joining a facebook group, that requires actual effort…

Repton, perhaps they are all at work, unlike the leftist and Islamic-fundamentalist stirrers, who are probably on the dole.

Funny how lefties praised Facebook, Twitter, etc when used by the Obama mob, but condemn it when it’s picked up by the rest of us.

Another thought: notice how the lefty Hammerheads swim in for what they think will be an easy kill when they think DPF is either on holiday or partly on holiday?
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January 4, 2010 10:08am
Redbaiter

More evidence of the political astuteness of the wise voters who elected Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqAiarOhC2U&feature=related
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January 4, 2010 10:11am
pdm

BTW I watched the BBC 6pm news tonight and did not see any mention of the proposed march. MSM putting their heads in the sand again?
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January 4, 2010 10:12am
goonix

What do people think of the prospects of the Bill and Ben Party in 2010?
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January 4, 2010 10:15am
eszett

gee, red, now that’s really astute.
You know you can find idiots on all sides

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKKKgua7wQk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXKuDYvM6Wk

Taking cheap shots like that, anyone can do that. You really have to up your game a bit, you got a bit slack lately.
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January 4, 2010 10:19am
Redbaiter

Except you didn’t do it. Obama supporters are morons who defy comparison.
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January 4, 2010 10:37am
CharlieBrown

Neil – Well put. although the term liberal is not really correct, the democrats definitely aren’t liberal on anything economic, they are more protectionist/conservative on that front. The term liberal is a misnomer when used in the context of lefties. Basically to be liberal is to believe in individual freedom… in which case the democrats (and any leftist party) do not believe in.
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January 4, 2010 10:51am
Jack5

Charlie Borwn posted at 10.51:

…The term liberal is a misnomer when used in the context of lefties. Basically to be liberal is to believe in individual freedom… in which case the democrats (and any leftist party) do not believe in….

That may be true for economic historians and political theory afficianados, Charlie, but the battle’s been lost otherwise. Popular American usage of liberal as wishy-washy and politically correct rules.

Some purists within ACT would waste effort trying to redefine the perception of liberal in popular opinion, but the language has changed. Adapt to it.

The dogs barked, the caravan moved on.
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January 4, 2010 11:00am
side show bob

eszett, just watched a lefty love in on CNN, boy what a pack of dribbling suckholes. Poor old Mac Daddy, apparently he is misunderstood and is doing what must be done and the people will come around to see the wisdom of his actions. They must empty out the mental homes in the US on public holidays, looks like CNN is a drop in center.

From today’s rag :The proportion of couples paying 30% or more of their pre-tax income on debt repayments more then doubled from 7.9% in 2004 to 18.4 % in 2008.

I just love how many of the finical gurus on the radio now talk about the recession, claiming it is now confined to the history books, what a load of horseshit!. I would assume these 18.4% pay minimal tax and the danger is as more and more struggle those left paying the bills become fewer and fewer. Surely as a country we can not be far from total collapse. This country is built on dominoes and the first one must be very close to tipping.
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January 4, 2010 11:04am
Redbaiter

The term is “Progressives”.
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January 4, 2010 11:04am
Jack5

Hell, now they want to ban mention of unhealthy food, even on the internet in blogs etc (link below).

Bet the PF lefties will ensure any ban doesn’t over the chocolate gateau recipes and wine and craft-beer reviews from their trendy reading.

The trendy lefties preaching tolerance and “liberal” openness for their own political views and tastes (eg lower excise duty for wine), but intolerance for the views and tastes of others.
Next they’ll weant compulsory yoga, meditation, and veganism.

The link:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10618328
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January 4, 2010 11:14am
CharlieBrown

I would rather use word like “Leftist” or “Scocialist”, or even “progessive” as Redbaiter says. I would still argue that the term liberal should be used correctly as the more people that do this will then start to change the misconception behind the term. It is quite apparent when you look up the definition of liberal, look up the history behind its usage you will see that left wing parties are far far far from being liberal.

Also, consider the liberal party in Australia, they aren’t socialist (even though I know they are still not particularly liberal in the correct usage of the word) by any means.
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January 4, 2010 11:17am
CharlieBrown

Jack5 (1348) – ”

Hell, now they want to ban mention of unhealthy food, even on the internet in blogs etc (link below).”

Farout, that is scary. The UN is a complete waste of time, the sooner that countries like the USA, Russia and China pull out of the pathetic European-centric organisation and set up one with a far more limited mandate the better.
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January 4, 2010 11:24am
joe90

The trendy lefties preaching tolerance and “liberal” openness for their own political views and tastes

Nothing quite like a bit of old fashioned tolerance
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January 4, 2010 11:26am
Don the Kiwi

The lefty latte/chardonnay set in the US are gonna wet themselves come the mid-term elections, where the Repubs are predicted to give the Dems a bath.

Roll on November .
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January 4, 2010 11:32am
CharlieBrown

Hehe, a classic example of a party that calls themselves tolerant are the greens, who are tolerant of everything except for whats listed in the post below:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/10/the_greens_banned_list.html
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January 4, 2010 11:33am
kowtow

Whafe @935 am

Why ask about a cover up? A charge has been laid.Can’t get more public than that.Do you have a problem with the boys in blue?
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January 4, 2010 11:47am
Fletch

hmm, remind me again, who was it that created homeland security and dreamed up how all the Intelligence agencies will be working together and sharing information? Who had 8 years in office to work it all out?

Yet I don’t think there was an attack on US soil, or successful attack on a US airliner on Bush’s watch.
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January 4, 2010 11:50am
Jack5

Re Joe90’s 11.26 link to reports nutters in Uganda and Wales who want the death penalty for homosexuals…

Joe, not sure how this links to PC UN moves to ban unhealthy fast food. Is there some suggestion of a call for capital punishment for those who run fish and chip shops or hamburger bars?
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January 4, 2010 11:55am
eszett

Fletch (755) Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 11:50 am

Yet I don’t think there was an attack on US soil, or successful attack on a US airliner on Bush’s watch.

Oh yeah? Who was the president on 11th of September 2001?
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January 4, 2010 11:56am
MikeNZ

Climategate the Christmas gift that gives throughout the year!
Just read this out of climate depot, the writer has substance at least petey.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/6795858.html
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January 4, 2010 11:57am
Fletch

eszett, I meant AFTER 9/11, after the new security measure had been put in place.
Clinton famously had a chance to stop Bin Laden before 9/11 and didn’t take any action.
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January 4, 2010 12:02pm
MikeNZ

whafe
your 9.35am will be interesting if the harrasser detective will be named and a photo issued in media.
We don’t know thw whole story but it is telling the snr sgt ordered the arrest.
I suspect he was either hasseling her because she looked funny at his behaviour (so he’s a bully) or it maybe how he picks up certain women (as do some people in authority).
If that be the case if they do put his piccie on the wires, there might be a few more phone calls made by previous women?
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January 4, 2010 12:05pm
Jack5

Fletch posted at 12.02:

…Clinton famously had a chance to stop Bin Laden before 9/11 and didn’t take any action….</blockquote)

I thought Clinton blitzed Bin Laden's training camp with cruise missiles.
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January 4, 2010 12:25pm
Chuck Bird

New lead in Sounds case

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10618237

This is starting to sound much like the David Doughty case.

A person found guilty should not have to proof themselves innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt. I would not go a far as to say Scott Watson is innocent. However, on the balance of probabilities there is no way he is guilty.

In the David Doughty case when it was clear that the DNA on the girl’s pajamas was not Doughty’s the police dreamed up a new theory – that there was another man involved. This had never been suggested before.

It takes lot for the police to ever admit they may be wrong.

The only real evidence the police have is DNA on a couple of hairs and there are questions they have not answered as to why it took so long to find the hairs.
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January 4, 2010 12:33pm
dad4justice

Oh no not the sounds case – ring the dope Pope!
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January 4, 2010 1:13pm
eszett

Fletch (756) Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

eszett, I meant AFTER 9/11, after the new security measure had been put in place.
Clinton famously had a chance to stop Bin Laden before 9/11 and didn’t take any action.

What about the Shoebomber Reid? Very similar to the latest event.

The Bush administration had years to change the intelligence community and the way they work. And they did, so they claim. Yet years of preparation and still such a major fuck up.

I could be wrong, but I am not aware that the Obama administration changed anything the Bush administration implemented that would have enabled this attack to happen.

But it’s the republicans that are good on security. Yeah, right.
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January 4, 2010 1:18pm
Sonny Blount

Al Gore wins another award:

http://www.alterxmedia.com/gore.html
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January 4, 2010 1:50pm
Sonny Blount

eszett,

I agree that the Republicans have to share responsiblility for the effectiveness of the intelligence community in this first year of a new administration (unless the democrat majorities since 2006 have had a significant input).

But the record from 911 through to 2009 has been exemplary. There were many significant and successful attacks in Europe and elswhere but none in the US. Al-Qaeda has resorted to downscaling their strategy and relying on smaller attacks by individuals, which are much, much harder to defend against.

I would guess that the main problem with US homeland security is PC attiitudes that limit profiling, they need to take some lessons from the Israelis.
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January 4, 2010 1:57pm
reid

I could be wrong, but I am not aware that the Obama administration changed anything the Bush administration implemented that would have enabled this attack to happen.

eszett:

Newsweek: Saudis briefed top Obama official about “underwear bombers” in October; Update: MI5 knew of bomber three years ago

There were multiple fuck-ups and blaming one or other Administration will not help matters. What disturbs me is there is obviously no master database updated by multiple intelligence agencies including MI5/6, Mossad, ISI, CIA, NSA, FBI, DGSE, DCRI, BND etc.

I would have thought that such a thing was an absolute no-brainer after 911.
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January 4, 2010 2:02pm
Owen McShane

There are Classic Liiberals and American Liberals..

We should all know what a Classic Liberal is.

And American Liberal is simply Liberal with other people’s money.
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January 4, 2010 2:50pm
Pete George

There were multiple fuck-ups and blaming one or other Administration will not help matters.

I agree, but the Republicans (led by a certain Richard Cheney) have tried to make it political.

There are too many agencies (over a dozen separate security organisations) competing more than co-operating. No matter how well intentioned any administration is it is on the cards it will embarrassed by the internal power wars.

Since 9-11 Al Qaeda didn’t have to try high risk US attacks, the targets volunteered themselves to a lot more convenient location.
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January 4, 2010 2:57pm
Rod

Monckton on Kevin Rudd – will he have a go at JK and our ETS while he is out here? Quick, bury it.
http://sppiblog.org/news/lord-monckton-replies-to-australias-canting-ranting-prime-minister
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January 4, 2010 3:24pm
pinnocchio

At kowtow at 11:57 and MarkNZ at 12:40. Not sure there is a problem, but it would be nice to know that women and children are safe, whether they are in a car-park on a public holiday or trying to “get better work stories” .

[ http://www.nzherald.co.nz/jared-savage/news/article.cfm?a_id=304&objectid=10599749&pnum=1 ]
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January 4, 2010 3:29pm
Redbaiter

Great link Rod. Many thanks. What an utterly disgraceful junkett. Some day these self serving lying paper shuffling pontificating bastards should be made to pay for this criminal abuse of taxpayer funds.

(and great letter as usual from Lord Monckton. A true hero)
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January 4, 2010 3:53pm
wreck1080

The brits must be yearning for some of that global warming love to hit them.

They are facing a 250 million repair bill for fixing roads damaged by the extreme cold event they are currently experiencing.
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January 4, 2010 4:15pm
TimG_Oz

Oh God some whinger in the Dom Post this morning writes a letter about George Galloway taking Christmas presents to Gaza.

I wonder if he remembered to pack any presents to take to Gilad Shalit who has been in captivity now for 1289 days. Somehow I doubt it.

At least in the Australian newspapers (even the Left Wing ones) if they choose to print these kind of drivelly letters, they print a balancing letter from the Israeli point of view….
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January 4, 2010 4:41pm
Chuck Bird

“Monckton on Kevin Rudd – will he have a go at JK and our ETS while he is out here? Quick, bury it.”

Thank for the link. It is well worth a read.
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January 4, 2010 5:06pm
MikeNZ

Pete George
I have to disagree passionately with your premise that the GOP have made it political.
This one terrorist or his handler fucked up, thank God. If he hadn’t it would have been 200+ deaths.

Get off your lefty-trefty, lets smack the republicans one more time.
What did Cheney state and what are the side issues as a direct result?

OB1 has deliberately not stated Islamic or Islamic terrorist or Islamic Terrorism.
The language defines the thoughts which come from the heart.
Either they are terrorists or they are not.
Either they are at war or they are not.
either they get tried as citizens in civil court or not.

This comes to the heart of who and what we are dealing to. oh yes and profiling them too?

OB1 has chosen open court where the USA is gong to get reamed using the fullest media and points of law possible starting with Miranda rights.
Why does this man want the USA to be humiliated in front of the whole world?
Why does he choose to disrespect all the thousands of US men and women who are serving in security, state and armed forces capacities around the world?
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January 4, 2010 5:24pm
Sonny Blount

Since 9-11 Al Qaeda didn’t have to try high risk US attacks, the targets volunteered themselves to a lot more convenient location.

Which was the intent of the US. They have tolerated a number of military casualties, for a large number of Al Qaeda casualties and loss of operational bases, and very few US civilian casualties.
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January 4, 2010 5:28pm
Sonny Blount

MikeNZ,

I am still utterly appalled at Obama’s response to Fort Hood. First of all his 2 minute shout out at his first press conference on it, and secondly on failing to acknowledge that it was a radical islamist terrorist attack on US soil.

The mosque that the major frequented should be shut down and its leaders taken into custody.
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January 4, 2010 5:30pm
MikeNZ

Thanks for the link Rod
I’m going to send it to John Key.
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January 4, 2010 5:31pm
MikeNZ

Sonny I understand entirely, the damage he does to the National Psyche is tremendous and he aids and abetts the enemy when he does that.
He’s not stupid he is media savvy, he knows what he is doing.

The issue is why won’t he name it as Islamic Terrorism (radical or otherwise)?
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January 4, 2010 5:33pm
jaba

wow .. I wondered how long it would take. Prime news (Sky News) just showed the toss pot who put explosives in his undies wearing the blue bennie BUT the Nike symbol has been taken out.
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January 4, 2010 5:40pm
Hurf Durf

Got a anonymous phone call from 00881942011051 and got the busy line tone, apparently if you ring it back you get some dodgy sex line. Anyone else had a run in with this number?
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January 4, 2010 6:14pm
Rex Widerstrom

Whafe asks:

Will be interesting to see how the men in blue cover this one up = http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10618332

The NZ Police had nine years of protected status, Whafe, they know how it works. They don’t properly investigate their political masters, and their political masters in turn make sure they’re not properly investigated. “Nothing to see here, not in the public interest, move on” remember?

Police spokesman Kev Loughlin last night confirmed an officer will appear in the Papakura District Court on a charge of disorderly behaviour. The other has not yet been charged.

Disorderly behaviour?? Harassing a woman and her son, demanding her phone number and name, indecently exposing himself, misusing his considerable (and ever-growing) powers and refusing to accompany police and it’s disorderly behaviour? Imagine for one second if you or I had done that (minus the Police badge, of course). We’d be in custody and probably charged with something like attempted rape.

Mr Loughlin would not comment on the incident, or discuss the officers’ employment status. “The issues around the incident have yet to be fully determined,” he said.

Don’t you just love that last statement? Translation: “We’re not confirming any aspect of the woman’s complaint as witnessed by her son and people at the gas station because you media types will then get bored and forget to follow up and we can sweep the whole thing under the rug”.

I hope the Herald’s Chief Reporter has seen to it that his police beat reporter has “Call Mr Loughlin to see what’s happened to the world-be rapist cops” diaried every week through 2010 and beyond till they get an answer.
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January 4, 2010 6:22pm
grumpyoldhori

Damn, I bet those poor sods in the New York towers were happy that the Republicans were in charge when those aircraft hit.
So should we do a comparison of dead civilian Americans from terrorism during dubyas first year compared to Obama ? or would that be unfair ?
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January 4, 2010 6:26pm
Hurf Durf

Most terror attacks in the US since 2001 occurred in 2009, sillyoldtwat. Read it and weep.

Maybe your Commie Cuzzie can feed you some more talking point if you ring him up.
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January 4, 2010 6:51pm
Pete George

MikeNZ at 5:24 pm: I have to disagree passionately with your premise that the GOP have made it political.

Get off your lefty-trefty, lets smack the republicans one more time.
What did Cheney state and what are the side issues as a direct result?

The political war over the failed Christmas bombing of a U.S. airliner showed no signs of abating Wednesday as leaders of both parties escalated their attacks, employing fiery rhetoric in assessing blame for the Detroit incident.

Former Vice President Dick Cheney led a GOP offensive to assail President Obama’s leadership on national security, charging that Americans are less safe because Cheney contends that Obama is “pretending” that the United States is not at war with terrorists.

“Why doesn’t he want to admit we’re at war?” Cheney told Politico. “It doesn’t fit with the view of the world he brought with him to the Oval Office. It doesn’t fit with what seems to be the goal of his presidency — social transformation — the restructuring of American society.”

http://www.startribune.com/politics/80384017.html?elr=KArks47cQiU47cQiU47cQUU
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January 4, 2010 7:03pm
side show bob

Good link Rod, I hope Shonkey takes the time out of his busy holiday schedule to read the letter. But I doubt it will have any effect on the socialist twits running this joint. Of course they know they are now barking up the wrong tree and the propaganda coming out of the mouths of fools in the Nat’s were simply to keep the socialist state in lose change and the peasants under the yoke of the state. Forget about trade embargoes and saving the planet these are but a means to an end. I now trust the National leadership as much as I did Liarbore cabal, the bastards speak with fork tongues. One moment they are calling for tax cuts and at the same time have no problem planing to hike up the tax take through this evil piece of bullshit they call the EFS. God this country needs leadership that is honest, freedom loving and blessed with a set of gonads.
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January 4, 2010 7:50pm
slightlyrighty

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article6974059.ece

Some very interesting reading. Discuss?
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January 4, 2010 8:17pm
Pete George

Are conservatives pro-freedom of choice or pro-restrictions?

Crackdown on alcohol seen as part of conservative moment in Iraq

In recent months, the pendulum has veered toward conservative mores. Government officials, including many competing in the upcoming parliamentary election, have sought to impose stricter limits on alcohol consumption and coeducational schools.
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January 4, 2010 8:18pm
Pete George

Yes, interesting slightlyrighty, and not really surprising. More research on this would be useful (or perhaps this research has more on it, I haven’t found any details) – what sort of smacking is effective and what is not, intervention versus punishment smacking, degree and type of smacking etc. Also, what sort of non-smacking techniques work and which don’t.
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January 4, 2010 8:27pm
fortunateson

Whafe, given that he was arrested by a Senior Sergeant and charged with disorderly conduct I would suggest no cover up is being done here. And if the whole event leads to a conviction, I would say he will be an ex-detective.
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January 4, 2010 8:58pm
Rex Widerstrom

fortunateson:

Read the entire article. It sounds like a terrifying experience for the woman and her child, and an unpleasant one for the service station employees to whom she ran for help and who were then bullied by the inebriated officers.

If you, me or Whafe had done it (unless you’re a police officer perchance?) we’d have been rightly charged with several serious offences including refusing to accompany police. We probably wouldn’t have been asked politely to accompany our mates back to the station for a few (more) drinks in any case, we’d have been arrested long before a Senior Sergeant was forced to intervene.

The police are notorious for overcharging in the hope the arrested person will panic and gratefully accept a guilty plea to a lesser charge, yet for the behaviour described in tnat article the best they can do is disorderly conduct, usually thrown at someone who’s a bit rowdy with the drink, not someone who’s harassing women and abusing their powers.

Don’t kid yourself, the cover up has already begun.
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January 4, 2010 9:12pm
Whafe

Disorderly Conduct is hardly a charge for a Detective of the NZ Police Force whom gets his Cockerbully out to 2 members of the public!
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January 4, 2010 9:34pm
Hurf Durf

Food for thought. Which British political party promotes the following discriminatory, reactionary, bigoted policies:

* Forbid the purchase of corner shops by migrants
* Stop people from inner cities moving to the countryside to protect traditional lifestyles
* Grant British citizenship only to children born in the UK
* Boycott food grown by black farmers and subsidise crops grown by whites
* Restrict tourism and immigration from outside Europe
* Prohibit embryo research
* Stop lorry movements on the Lord’s Day
* Require State approval for national sports teams to compete overseas
* Disconnect Britain from the European electricity grid
* Establish a “new order” between nations to resolve the world economic crisis

The answer may surprise you!
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January 4, 2010 9:48pm
calendar girl

Rex Widerstrom: I’m more than a little weary of your constant use of DPF’s blog to discredit the NZ Police.

Regardless of your own experiences with Police and imprisonment, please let the Police deal with the present incident without being subjected to your partisan harrassment. It’s possible that there been a holding charge laid, and – based on what has been set out in MSM reports – further charges could follow. So let due process take its course before you launch into your tiresome anti-Police tirade.

If any real evidence or appearance evolves of an attempted cover-up, you will have plenty of opportunity to make your more considered views known at that time. Meanwhile, comments suggesting that individuals might have been “… asked politely to accompany our mates back to the station for a few (more) drinks …” are fanciful and insidious.
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January 4, 2010 10:00pm
grumpyoldhori

Hurf Durf comprehension not a strong point ? I said do a septic style body count, they are normally keen on them.
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January 4, 2010 10:18pm
MikeNZ

melaniephillips in the UK with an illuminating read in many ways, a couple surprising.
http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=707
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January 4, 2010 10:56pm
Hurf Durf

Derp: Brown-led push against Islamists in Yemen doesn’t actually exist.

James G. Brown, helping dismantle the Special Relationship one love-struck gaffe at a time.
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January 4, 2010 11:28pm
Rex Widerstrom

calendar girl:

My experience of the police covers not just NZ but Australia also, spans some 25 years, and involves not just me but (very roughly) 100 or so people I’ve assisted with their defences over that time, both before and after my publicised run-in with them. It also includes incidents such as an officer admitting to my then business partner that while he accepted I probably wasn’t guilty of the offence for which I’d been arrested and charged I “had it coming” for being outspoken.

It’s cost my parents their life savings and then much of my income to defend six different accusations up to and including trials in four of them, with not one conviction.

So, with as much respect as I can muster, till you’ve had some first hand expereince of these wonderful people whom you’re so keen to defend, don’t tell me what to say or think.

And no, of course they’re not all like that. Many fine people sign on with the best of intentions. When they see what goes on in some quarters, however, they either keep their mouths shut and do an honest job of their cases so as to avoid ostracism; join in; or leave.

Next time I speak to the ex-English senior police officer now heading an Australian uni forensic investigation unit which works to clear the many innocent people fitted up by various Australian state police forces, I’ll see if he’ll let me share some stories publicly.

He came over here on a visit to help the police, was appalled by their attitude and practices (and the results thereof), went back and quit his job, then came back here and set up the unit.

Incidentally, despite also having been imprisoned on both sides of the Tasman you won’t find me criticising Corrections Officers (aside from Barry Matthews). They generally do a fine and honest job.
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January 5, 2010 3:09am
calendar girl

Rex, I don’t doubt that you had a very rough time, and hinted at such in my earlier post. However, there is a strong element in your expressed views of arguing from the particular to the general, and as a consequence tending to smear the entire force. Witness your latest outburst which has (as yet) no justification.

I’m no unquestioning defender of the NZ Police. Indeed I have waited in hope but in vain for Howard Broad to commence a visible, sustained lifting of priniples and standards in his force so that I can truly feel proud of our Police as I used to do. But I do consider the Police as my greatest protection – inadequate as it has proved to be – against crime, big government, and a complete breakdown of the rule of law. Undermining the force as a whole is simply not in the interests of NZ society.
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January 5, 2010 7:24am
MikeNZ

Calender Girl
I think you are right/wrong
right in that we want a police force we can trust and be proud of.
wrong in painting rex as undermining the NZPolice.
They do that for themselves for motre efficiently than do members of the public.

I worked as a policeman for 7 years, am a white conservative (pete 🙂 male and probably tick all the right boxes to be 100% behind our police force unequivocally.
However I don’t.
That the top echelon is politically compromised is a given in my mind and the culture within is toxic.
They are not my or your friends, they are the biggest gang in the land and look after their own first.
That their are hardworking and ecent people within the police force I don’t doubt, I know some but the rest above is still applicable.
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January 5, 2010 8:01am

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