General Debate 26 January 2010

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Inventory2

Has Antoinette Beck returned to our shores?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/01/oh-michael.html
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January 26, 2010 8:34am
democracymum

The NZ Herald has an interesting editorial this morning about the need for Labour to look past its pact with Ratana

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10622239

I say we need to look more closely at the role the Ratana movement is attempting to play in
the political leadership of our country.
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January 26, 2010 8:39am
Pete George

Wangas doesn’t appear to have contributed to any threads of praise for Laws in Kiwiblog.

Some posts are obviously representative views and proxy views, PR tentacles can be anywhere.

See the Dom uses Whanganui.
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January 26, 2010 8:42am
Inventory2

Indeed Pete – and M L(h)aws has shown a mastery in extending his own PR tentacles over the years. He certainly isn’t media-shy!
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January 26, 2010 8:44am
Pete George

Good point democracymum, should Ratana influence be looked on any differently to that of Destiny or Exclusive Brethren or Catholics etc?

How many proxy politicians are there?
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January 26, 2010 8:45am
Sonny Blount

Some perspective is required on the issues with the IPCC.

For Luc and the other ostriches, this is not about the conclusions of the science, it is about the behaviour of an organisation which operates with the purpose of moving large sums of money to their friends.

Dr Pachauri, Dr Jones, and Dr Lal should be heading for serious jail time. The IPCC has been revealed as another Enron.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/23/breaking-news-scientist-admits-ipcc-used-fake-data-to-pressure-policy-makers/#more-15589
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January 26, 2010 8:48am
MyNameIsJack

Happy Australia Day

Sing to the tune of Onward Christian Soldiers – replace — with bloody

Fellers of Australier,
Blokes an’ coves an’ coots,
Shift yer — carcases,
Move yer — boots.
Gird yer — loins up,
Get yer — gun,
Set the — enermy
An’ watch the blighters run.

CHORUS:
Get a — move on,
Have some — sense.
Learn the — art of
Self de- — -fence.

Have some — brains be-
Neath yer — lids.
An’ swing a — sabre
Fer the missus an’ the kids.
Chuck supportin’ — posts,
An’ strikin’ — lights,
Support a —- fam’ly an’
Strike fer yer — rights.

CHORUS:
Get a — move on, etc.

Joy is — fleetin’,
Life is — short.
Wot’s the use uv wastin’ it
All on — sport?
Hitch yer — tip-dray
To a — star.
Let yer — watchword be
“Australi- — -ar!”

CHORUS:
Get a — move on, etc.

‘0w’s the — nation
Goin’ to ixpand
‘Lest us — blokes an’ coves
Lend a — ‘and?
‘Eave yer — apathy
Down a — chasm;
‘Ump yer — burden with
Enthusi- — -asm.

CHORUS:
Get a — move on, etc.

W’en old mother Britain
Calls yer native land
Take a — rifle
In yer — ‘and
Keep yer — upper lip
Stiff as stiff kin be,
An’ speed a — bullet for
Poster- — -ity.

CHORUS:
Get a — move on, etc.

W’en the — bugle
Sounds “Ad- — -vance”
Don’t be like a flock er sheep
In a — trance
Biff the — Kaiser
Where it don’t agree
Spifler- — -cate him
To Eternity.

CHORUS:
Get a — move on, etc.

Fellers of Australier,
Cobbers, chaps an’ mates,
Hear the — German
Kickin’ at the gates!
Blow the — bugle,
Beat the — drum,
Upper-cut an’ out the cow
To kingdom- — -come!

CHORUS:
Get a — move on,
Have some — sense.
Learn the — art of
Self de- — -fence.

C J Dennis
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January 26, 2010 8:57am
MyNameIsJack

Yesterday in the thread “Sickening” Kris K made to following ridiculous claim.

This time 5 kittens, next time, and there will be a next time, who and/or how many.
Kris K (1322) Says:

Oh, and MNIJ, leopards used to be vegetarian FYI – as did ALL dogs.

So, in another place and in another time this pitbull would have never killed those kittens. And this lowlife would have never thought of committing such an atrocity.

Kris, I’d like to ask the following questions re this.

1. What evidence do you have that leopards and dogs were once vegetarians?

2. When and why did they become carnivores?

3. Assuming that leopards and dogs were not alone in the animal kingdom as vegetarians, why did only some animals evolve to become carnivores whilst many remained herbivorous (vegetarin to you)?
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January 26, 2010 9:05am
frankflintstone

Good point democracymum, should Ratana influence be looked on any differently to that of Destiny or Exclusive Brethren or Catholics etc?

or the New Lynn Bowling Club
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January 26, 2010 9:23am
cha

MNIJ

He’s been watching The Verdict of Science
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January 26, 2010 9:27am
Pete George

or the New Lynn Bowling Club

Don’t tell Redbaiter, they are probably Commies. All their bowls bias to the left.
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January 26, 2010 9:29am
Redbaiter

” Kris, I’d like to ask the following questions re this.”

Oh for fuck’s sake.

Another dimwit Secular Progressive bent on screwing up GD with his obsessive crap.

Leave it alone for fuck’s sake.
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January 26, 2010 9:33am
MyNameIsJack

Sorry, Massa. I’ll leave now and the only topic of discussion will be why the GOP is GOD, Sarah Palin is son of god and FOX news is the holy spirit.

No, actually I won’t leave at all. If you don’t like the questions, leave them be. Anything you had to say on the topic would be bullfuckingshit anyway. Kris may give a laughable answer, but at least it would be an answer. You answer nothing, add little to debate except invective and vitriol, you’re neither intelligent or funny.
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January 26, 2010 9:39am
TimG_Oz

HAPPY AUSTRALIA DAY!!!!!

Isn’t it time you lot were all Australians already. You should become our 7th state. Our constitution allows it
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January 26, 2010 9:40am
Brian Smaller

Kris, I’d like to ask the following questions re this.

1. What evidence do you have that leopards and dogs were once vegetarians?

2. When and why did they become carnivores?

3. Assuming that leopards and dogs were not alone in the animal kingdom as vegetarians, why did only some animals evolve to become carnivores whilst many remained herbivorous (vegetarin to you)?

He saw it on the Lion King. The Circle of Life, where all the animals sit around and sing kumbaya.
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January 26, 2010 9:47am
Pete George

National could use a dose of Prebble’s medicine

One of the potentially catastrophic political decisions involved the need to close 432 Post Office branches – many of them opened not for reasons of postal efficiency but as vote-catching sops to marginal electorates.

Mr Prebble told Vivienne Smith, author of the book on this saga, Reining in the Dinosaur, that he was constantly bombarded with advice from businessmen on SOE boards about what he could and could not do politically and how many branches he could close at once. He had to adopt a stock retort: ”Look, you run the business and I’ll run the politics.”

He closed the lot in one fell swoop, on February 5, 1988. The sky did not fall in on Labour as a result of this shock. In fact the government seemed to be admired for courageous action. And nor did the government lose ground over the initial introduction of GST, then set at 10 per cent, because it coincided with massive personal tax cuts, with the top rate dropping from 66 cents to 33c in the dollar.

All this should assist Mr Key’s case to his nervous nellies: a courageous government gets rewarded for unpalatable decisions; indecision and timidity get punished.

Yep, Prebbleise the tax system.
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January 26, 2010 10:11am
Redbaiter

” Sorry, Massa. I’ll leave now ”

If only.
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January 26, 2010 10:21am
Swiftman the infidel

More lies from the ‘Greens’:

‘A few interesting links to start your day: New Scientist addresses the misunderstanding some have that cold weather means climate change isn’t real: Errors and lies thrive in cold weather Mother Jones on Climate Change’s Low-Hanging Fruit From the Guardian:’

So colder weather = global warming and ‘climate change’ = global warming, not global cooling.

Who falls for this shit?
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January 26, 2010 10:30am
Murray

Well the year has only started and jackboot has already won the Crapweasle of 2010 award.

You can shut up now, you’re not going to produce anything new from here on in.
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January 26, 2010 10:57am
MyNameIsJack

And your contribution to the discussion muzza, is what? Leave your brain at the sinnergog?
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January 26, 2010 11:06am
grumpyoldhori

Pete George, sadly for the Nats this is not 1988, now Key has a problem in that a hell of a lot of voters believe politicians are wanting to drop the top tax rate to enrich themselves.
Among politicians overall there is far too much of the mindset that the peasants need to suffer while politicians have entitlements that they need.
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January 26, 2010 11:08am
MikeNZ

Grumpi
There is truth in your last sentence.
One of the problems is that they live in a bubble ($300,00pa) that makes it hard to be ordinary Kiwis as their lifestyle is 24/7 in the bubble, with status and sycophants 🙂
Also they think about us differently, we are issues to them and they think about how will this affect me/party politically, what is the look from outside. getting into power and staying there to effect the changes they want, we are a means to an end.

One of the issues is keeping them honest and accountable as presently once they are in they don’t need to listen for 3yrs.
I’m in favour of the California recall or referendum, Rod Hides local govt and national govt guidelines options.
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January 26, 2010 11:31am
Jack5

Open letter to the Rev. Moon, Seoul…

Dear Reverend Moon,

I understand you like running right-wing newspapers, such as your Washington Times.

There’s a good opportunity for you in Fairfax New Zealand, which the Australian owners would like to sell and keep in New Zealand only their internet auction site TradeMe.

Fairfax NZ is sick. It suffers from acute Febris sinistra. As an example I offer you today’s Christchurch Press, probably the group’s most profitable newspaper and one of its biggest.

The Government has announced it will speed up arterial road development in Christchurch. This will pump money into the local economy, hit by substantial factory closures recently, such as the Firestone rubber plant and more remnants of Christchurch’s once big employer, clothing manufacture. The roading will also appeal to the city’s motorists (the city must have more than 100,000 cars).

Correctly in this reader’s view, the Christchurch Press makes this $730 million local spend-up its main story on the front page. However, beyond the first paragraph the report sinks into a Green attack on the spend-up because of its effect on public transport and its lack of cycle lanes. Those looking for good news have to wade through the Green propaganda to reach favourable comments.

This is typical of the leftist trend of what once was one of the country’s leading conservative newspapers.

Another example is in the letters to the editor, where one of the city’s most vocal Labour supporters praises and supports the newspaper for publishing a photograph of a war hero’s face when he is on active service and where the tradition is to give his unit anonymity. The newspaper has been assailed by a majority of its readers for printing the soldier’s picture. The Christchurch Press chooses this leftist’s letter of support and makes it the top letter and puts the usual heading across the page on it. Only this time the heading is in larger print than usual.

I have one reservation about you buying our local newspaper, Rev. Moon. That is your mass marriage campaigns. However, in the light of the newspaper’s advertisements for prostitutes and strip-show entertainment, I now think this is an acceptable flaw.

For fuck’s sake, save us from the current garbage, Reverend. Please. If you do, I will become a subscriber again, instead of reading my pal’s paper.

Yours truly,
A. Smith.
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January 26, 2010 11:32am
MikeNZ

Hi MNIJ
Hows Billy/Philu/etc etc
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January 26, 2010 11:32am
lofty

One small car … and 696 bottles of stolen beer says a headline on stuff today.

I know of a couple of young labour piss thieves, have they ever been charged for theft?
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January 26, 2010 11:38am
Repton

1. What evidence do you have that leopards and dogs were once vegetarians?

Everything was a vegetarian in the garden of eden, and animals only started eating each other after the fall. God predicted the fall and that’s why leopards have digestive systems adapted to meat.
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January 26, 2010 1:43pm
Pete George

Everything was a vegetarian in the garden of eden, and animals only started eating each other after the fall.

Why are you using American terms?

I can understand that after autumn there was no fruit left, so I guess the leopards and dogs had to eat something.
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January 26, 2010 1:52pm
MyNameIsJack

Repton, is that a serious answer requiring a serious response?
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January 26, 2010 1:58pm
Chthoniid

I’m really hoping that Young-Earth Creationists are a small minority on the NZ Xtian scene.
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January 26, 2010 2:01pm
KiwiGreg

Are “Young-Earth Creationists ” the 3 am 1st of January 4004BC guys?
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January 26, 2010 2:10pm
Pete George

Last night I saw some of a doco on the end of the world – jeez they jump to conclusions.

Some Mayans said that the sun would go out one day. And the Mayan calendar goes to 21 December 2012. So of course it doesn’t take much to figure that is when the world is going to end (it wasn’t because they ran out of room on their rock or anything).

Except that I know the sun will go out one day. And my calendar only goes to the end of this year. So who is right?
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January 26, 2010 2:16pm
Chthoniid

@KiwiGreg

Yes, YEC go for an origin 6000-10,000 years ago.

Old Earth Creationists accept the scientific evidence that the world is old, but reject many other aspects of evolutionary biology.

Theistic Evolutionists tend to accept evolution as science, but take evolution to be God’s plan afterall.
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January 26, 2010 2:17pm
Pete George

It looks like the end of the world may be going to be a repeat occurrence. It is going to happen several times this year:

“Second Messenger” predicts that the Rapture will happen on 2009-OCT-31 (Halloween) and that the end of the world will occur on 2010-APR-02. He has a blog explaining how this date was computed from biblical references. It is based on the belief that creation happened during 11990 BCE and the flood of Noah occurred during 4990 BCE, an interval of exactly 7,000 years. Working forward from the flood, another 7,000 year interval takes us to 2010.

The 7000 year glitch?

“The Analyzer” notes that the Worldwide Church of God announced on 2004-MAY-14 the sale of part of its west campus. He believes that this is “the abomination that maketh desolate” mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12. According to Daniel 8:14, the temple will be cleansed 2,300 days later, on 2010-AUG-31.

Thomas Chase of Revelation 13 predicts that the Battle of Armageddon could occur during 2010-August to November. Of particular interest is 2010-SEP-09 — the “… Jewish New Year’s Day Rosh Ha Shanh, when, according to biblical prophecy, the Battle of Armageddon may occur.”

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm#past
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January 26, 2010 2:30pm
frankflintstone

Some Mayans said that the sun would go out one day. And the Mayan calendar goes to 21 December 2012. So of course it doesn’t take much to figure that is when the world is going to end (it wasn’t because they ran out of room on their rock or anything).

anyone that likes Rush knows that its got to be 2112, surely
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January 26, 2010 2:38pm
MikeNZ

Knowing anecdotally our propensity for cannabis and being aware of the number of so called addh etc kids around us here in wellington, this article might be of interest.
It makes me wonder?

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5730226/did-cannabis-damage-the-edlington-child-sadists-in-utero.thtml
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January 26, 2010 2:44pm
bearhunter

Kiwigreg: “the 3 am 1st of January 4004BC guys?”

I think that would be “the night preceding the 23 October 4004BC, according to the Ussher chronology. Although I believe that some authorities consider that Ussher was out by quarter of an hour…
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January 26, 2010 2:47pm
MikeNZ

more confidence building from UK Police.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5728771/the-british-police-forget-what-country-they-are-in.thtml

thank God our NZPolice aren’t biased and political.
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January 26, 2010 2:48pm
side show bob

So is the world going to end again ?. Cool, the last end of the world party was a real hoot.
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January 26, 2010 4:33pm
Kris K

MyNameIsJack 9:05 am,

Kris, I’d like to ask the following questions re this.

1. What evidence do you have that leopards and dogs were once vegetarians?

2. When and why did they become carnivores?

3. Assuming that leopards and dogs were not alone in the animal kingdom as vegetarians, why did only some animals evolve to become carnivores whilst many remained herbivorous (vegetarin to you)?

Got here eventually.
MNIJ,
Repton pretty much sums up my view and justification:

Repton 1:43 pm,

1. What evidence do you have that leopards and dogs were once vegetarians?

Everything was a vegetarian in the garden of eden, and animals only started eating each other after the fall. God predicted the fall and that’s why leopards have digestive systems adapted to meat.

(Even though I know he doesn’t necessarily believe it himself)

Chthoniid 2:01 pm,

I’m really hoping that Young-Earth Creationists are a small minority on the NZ [Chris]tian scene.

No doubt many that attend a church (not necessarily Christians) reject the Young Earth Creation – no surprises there – they also reject many other biblical teachings. So even though I may be in a minority, I’m happy to admit that I am indeed a YEC. And yes, approximately 4000 BC fits in with God’s word.
I also believe the science supports the Bible and does not line up at all with the theory of evolution.

To be honest, most genuine Christians that hold God’s word as their sole authority generally accept the creation is as per God’s word and His timeframe. Those that reject the YEC usually also reject the literal virgin birth of Christ and that He was conceived of the Holy Spirit, that He will come again to judge the nations, that He will rapture His church prior to the seven year tribulation period when the Antichrist will reign, etc.

And those that reject the virgin birth of Christ are by definition not Christians – they have redefined the biblical Christ.

Chthoniid 2:17 pm,

Yes, YEC go for an origin 6000-10,000 years ago.

Old Earth Creationists accept the scientific evidence that the world is old, but reject many other aspects of evolutionary biology.

Point of clarification:
Most YEC I know, and have read of, accept that the “scientific evidence” actually supports the 6,000 – 10,000 year time frame. And not only that, but that the science also supports the biblical Noah’s flood. In fact true science actually substantiates God’s word, and is no problem whatsoever. It’s actually the evolutionists that have to scrabble around in the dust in an attempt to force the data to fit their theory.
Not a lot different to what we observe the IPCC and those pushing the AGW lie practicing.
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January 26, 2010 5:35pm
KiwiGreg

Thanks bearhunter – I could remember the year but guessed the date.
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January 26, 2010 5:56pm
Kris K

Regarding the end of the world:

Try reading Matthew chapter 24 and tell me that this doesn’t describe the state of the world today:

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. …

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Christ warns that when we see these ‘signs’ that the time is close at hand. And though I am not a date setter, the fact that time is indeed short according to God’s word seems self evident.

My personal belief is that within 1 – 20 years the church will be removed and the Antichrist revealed, followed by seven years till Christ comes to judge the nations in the valley of Megiddo (Armageddon).
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January 26, 2010 5:57pm
Chthoniid

Sigh, a YEC position is either a manifestation of uncommon credulity or a willfully dishonest misrepresentation of science.

Nothing in the geological column, the fossil record, plate-tectonics, biogeography or various dating techniques supports a young-earth.

There is no evidence of Noah’s flood, that is why pre-Darwin creationists had to come up with multiple catastrophes. There is no archaeological or biogeographic evidence of a Garden of Eden. This is why pre-Darwinian creationists came up with mutliple centres of creation. This is an important point- even before Darwin Xtan creatinists had already recognised that the biblical account had no support in the geological and biological records.

There are some very simple reasons why the earth cannot be as young as YEC. The sheer scale of biomass deposited as coal, oil and natural gas deposits outweighs current biomass by a large margin. There could not be enough life- nor time- to create the petroleum deposits we use.

The time taken for the plates to separate is also immense. There is no way the Atlantic Ocean could form as South America and Africa separated in a YEC time frame without leaving massive evidence in terms stressed and fractured rocks. As happens in NZ when we have tectonic activity which cleaves noticeable signs of fast (in geological terms) change.

There is no way that various radio-active dating techniques could mislead unless decay rates were much higher in the past. But the level of radiation produced by accelerating this decay- 100s of millions of years worth in just a few short centuries- would have poisoned the earth so throughly that we would be glowing.

The broad set of facts we have accumulated from chemistry, cosmology, biology and geology points with scientific certitude to an old earth (4.6 bn years).
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January 26, 2010 7:10pm
Pete George

Yep, that’s all accepted, but how old will it get? And what’s the bet on how it ends. Great flood is pretty much impossible, not world wide. Pole shift? Asteroid? Sun fizzle? Volcanic? Nuclear?

Doesn’t really matter, not gonna know about it anyway. And no one will be able to look back and find something obscure in the bible or Nostradamus or da Vinci paintings that “proves” their prediction.
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January 26, 2010 7:24pm
Kris K

Chthoniid 7:10 pm,

There are some very simple reasons why the earth cannot be as young as YEC. The sheer scale of biomass deposited as coal, oil and natural gas deposits outweighs current biomass by a large margin. There could not be enough life- nor time- to create the petroleum deposits we use.

The fact that the “sheer scale of biomass deposited as coal, oil and natural gas deposits outweighs current biomass by a large margin” is evidence of a very different environment prior to the flood. Plus there were no seas, so the land mass was much more in line with the area covered by existing oceans. Atmospheric pressure was much higher, as was the oxygen content of the air. Air trapped inside gum deposits, etc bare testimony to this. Plus when one looks at the size of large dinosaurs compared to their nostrils it has been shown that with current atmospheric pressure and oxygen content that these creatures could not survive due to insufficient oxygen uptake.

Oil and coal deposits also occur in fields/seems in what were low lying areas where they would end up in the event of a global flood having been carries there by flood waters.

Plate techtonics is an evolutionary myth. The Flood was not only rain, but the springs of the deep rupturing along with seismic activity such as the modern world has never known – it was this combination that resulted in the arrangement of modern day land masses.

Radioactive decay rates are dependent on the speed of light; this variable has been shown to be much lower today than in the past – even the recent past. And of course an omnipotent Creator could easily set the clock running so that we assume modern day isotopes are the result of decaying from year zero, rather than being created at a non zero start point.
Much in the same way we assume that because a star is 100,000 light years away that it must be 100,000 years old.

And don’t get me started on organic chemistry and the mystery of life.
We can’t even force life in ideal conditions, and yet we accept that given enough time life just came about by chance. We get idiots promoting ‘alien seeding’ and such like because the facts on the ground just don’t stack up short of supernatural creation.

I could cite all sorts of supporting documentation, but I have learnt that this is a pointless exercise when confronted with dyed in the wool Darwin worshippers.

PS The geological column, as presented, is an evolutionary myth; the fossil record, as presented, is an evolutionary myth. All such like are dishonest contrivances in an attempt to make the data match the desired outcome.
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January 26, 2010 8:03pm
Lance

@Kris K
Sorry to say mate… that is a permanent prediction, the Antichrist in 1-20 years. For the last 20 years it has the unending story many people have held onto.
The Har of Meggido (hill by Meggido) was a site of a disaster etched deep into culture of Jews ever since. Some rather idiotic and unnecessary military decision to fight the Egyptians (even though the Egyptians didn’t even seek a fight) lead to a devastating loss.
Maybe this is the actual place or an explanation lost in translation both verbally and culturally of a big show down to come, somewhere? I dunno.

But Christians aren’t being exterminated en mass world wide right now, there aren’t more natural disasters than normal right now especially considering the worlds huge population and wide geographic distribution of people.
So if the end times are coming, they don’t quite seem to be starting just yet.

Oh just to toss in a ‘starter for 10’.

The world wasn’t created in 6 days, the days weren’t 24 hours… it says so in the Hebrew of Genesis. Hebrew scholars know this.
Look up Yom Roshon (first 24 hours or ‘Sunday’) vs Yom Echad (first time period) for the first day. The Bible uses Yom Echad.

My point is by making bold suppositions based on assumed truths you open your self to ridicule, like burning people at the stake for saying the earth is round, revolves around the sun and the stars are other suns. Not even the most extreme loony sect holds to those any more. I think God is way more fantastic, complex and intense than anyone can begin to imagine. So expand your mind

FWIW
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January 26, 2010 8:26pm
Chthoniid

I kind of feel sorry for you Kris. All you have is a list of scientific discoveries and breakthroughs in diverse areas, all of which you feel necessary to reject. I doubt I will be able to influence your beliefs, but I hope the less doctrinaire can see how much science you have to ignore to hold to your position.

Consider the claims that you have made above. That there were no seas before the flood. That oxygen levels were much higher 6,000-10,000 years ago. That dinosaurs were present 6-10,000 years ago. That speed of light has got slower. Tectonic plates are a myth (150,000 dead Haitians beg to differ). These are completely absurd assertions without basis in scientific evidence. Most had already been rejected by good Xtian creationists before Darwin had published the Origin.
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January 26, 2010 8:32pm
chiz

Kris k;Radioactive decay rates are dependent on the speed of light; this variable has been shown to be much lower today than in the past – even the recent past.

Bollocks. There is no such evidence.

Kris k: And of course an omnipotent Creator could easily set the clock running so that we assume modern day isotopes are the result of decaying from year zero, rather than being created at a non zero start point.

By the same reasoning one could argue that God created the world last week and that we only think otherwise because all our memories etc were created at the same time.

Kris k: could cite all sorts of supporting documentation, but I have learnt that this is a pointless exercise when confronted with dyed in the wool Darwin worshippers.

A prettry good summary of what its like to debate you. You run away and resort to bible quotes when anyone shows that your arguments don’t make sense and aren’t supported by the evidence.

Face it Kris, the evidence for evolution is overwhelming. It isn’t even necessary to cite the fossil record anymore, our own genomes cantain a fossil record of our evolution.
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January 26, 2010 8:49pm
Pete George

Kris, when you are so far off reality with your views on evolution (and plate tectonics are something different altogether) it places a lot of doubt on your claims of Muslim takeovers by stealth, are they based on as many “facts”?
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January 26, 2010 8:58pm
Lance

Oh I just noticed this..
KrisK wrote
“To be honest, most genuine Christians that hold God’s word as their sole authority generally accept the creation is as per God’s word and His timeframe. Those that reject the YEC usually also reject the literal virgin birth of Christ and that He was conceived of the Holy Spirit, that He will come again to judge the nations, that He will rapture His church prior to the seven year tribulation period when the Antichrist will reign, etc.”

That is an extremely arrogant, ill informed and untrue statement. You a re just making that up because it makes you feel better
Please don’t spread lies like in the name of Christ.
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January 26, 2010 9:02pm
andrei

I feel kind of sorry for you Chthoniid – the way you treat science as though it gives us TRUTH with a capital T.

But it doesn’t, what it does do is to provide observations which we mere mortals use to construct theories to explain the functioning of the natural world.

And when observations are made that fall outside the scope of our theories we modify them – or junk them for new theories depending.

Consider this Science tells us the Earth is 4000,000,000 years old ± whatever – or it did last time i looked into it,

But that figure may be revised up or down when new data becomes available – it isn’t carved in stone.

Consider to the philosophy of Bishop Berkeley, in which he proposes that something can only exist because there is an observer to er well observe it. And this is an idea well supported by Quantum Physics, it is no idle fantasy.

Ergo our view of the ancient earth may well be a construction of our own minds.

I am reminded of an essay by Stephen Jay Gould, whom I’m sure you know of and have probably read, who wrote of an expedition he undertook with the Leakeys to the great rift valley to search for Hominid fossils.

And although the others with him found many he personally didn’t find a single specimen – he did however find many fossil snails, his specialty. His explanation of this was that his brain was programed to find snails, his specialty, while the other members of the parties brains had through many years been programmed to find hominid remains.

But it is not inconceivable that what they all found where creations of their own minds bought into reality because they could be woven into existing scientific theories and plausible to them they become plausible to us.
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January 26, 2010 9:03pm
Pete George

Andrei, is that a parable, it sounds like how different people see different things, things that they want to see, in the Bible.

Fossils can be different though, I have seen fossils of shellfish, plants, and whales, and only the whales where signposted (near Milburn). There are shellfish in the hills in Central Otago, and that’s not the sort of thing most people would expect to find there.
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January 26, 2010 9:29pm
graham

And now for something different …

I see that John Minto has said New Zealand’s most decorated living soldier Willie Apiata was “no hero” compared to three peace activists who attacked Marlborough’s Waihopai spy base.

Words fail me. Minto just gets nastier and nastier…
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January 26, 2010 10:32pm

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