General Debate 17 January 2010

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JoeAverage1948

Up in the mist in Wellington, Summers back. 😮
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January 17, 2010 8:22am
dad4justice

Joe, log burner on full here in Cantabland, at least is saves the expense of sun lotion.
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January 17, 2010 8:36am
andrei

Bad news for Republicans – NZ Herald has an online poll which is currently running 2:1 in favor of Prince William being out future King.

Meantime can you guess who will be doing a Minto when the Prince opens the New Supreme Court tomorrow?
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January 17, 2010 8:36am
KiwiGreg

Entirely predictable:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3235377/Physios-hurting-after-ACC-cutbacks

People were happy to spend Other People’s Money to go to physios but as soon as they had to spend their own they discovered that they could live without. Just a classic case study in basic economics. Tip of the iceberg in terms of the health and “health” sectors tho.
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January 17, 2010 8:40am
democracymum

I see Air NZ have a new online advertisement, designed to offend as many groups as possible. I think if you are going to be offensive, you also need to be really funny to carry it off. Which IMO this ad is not.
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January 17, 2010 8:58am
dad4justice

demomum – Air NZ will not let me sit next to children. I gave up flying with the offensive twits years ago. Another example of unlawful gender discrimination.
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January 17, 2010 9:04am
Manolo

The Aussies are seeing the light: http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2010/4459/

Whne will NZ follow? Will we be forever saddled with Nick Smith’s ETS legacy? Will Key’s government muster the political courage to repel it?
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January 17, 2010 9:07am
alex Masterley

Reading the SST this morning, my first thought was has Laws identified the Nelson groper? and if so will he be prosecuted?
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January 17, 2010 9:09am
side show bob

I see the earthquake in Haiti as brought out the fruitcakes with Pat Robertson of the 700 club fame calling it Gods judgement on the people of Haiti. Rumour has it the people signed a pack with the devil to get rid of the french. The country, home to voodoo and black magic has been blighted with natural disasters, Robertson said on his show that God is pissed with Haiti and thus the earthquake. Meanwhile Danny Clover, actor, Hollywood, of course, claims the earthquake is the earths response to the rejection of an agreement in Copenhagen, I’m not really sure what you can say about these statements, it boggles the mind. If these people are taken seriously again you really have to question the sanity of the fools that hang of their words and actions,
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January 17, 2010 9:11am
jcuknz

They may think they can do without but what long term problems will they be left with due to lack of treatment, or loss of productive capacity as a result, cost to the nation with extended periods on ACC?
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January 17, 2010 9:15am
XChequer

Demomum – get over yourself. If you don’t like it – don’t watch it. Four out of five other people probably find this funny.

D4J – aside from the fact that Air New Zealand has you blacklisted from being within 10 metres of another persons child, I would have thought that given the ads “irreverence” you would have quite liked it.

Personally, I thought the ad was great.

XChequer
http://thenzhomeoffice.blogspot.com/2010/01/unleash-cougers.html
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January 17, 2010 9:25am
scanner

Poor old Paul Henry he may be right after all
http://nz.entertainment.yahoo.com/91899/susan-boyle-goes-wild-airport/index.html
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January 17, 2010 9:27am
Viking2

DDMUM: Air NZ are smarter than you think and who cares. Made for online and not TV(clever), topical when it comes to subject and no one is forced to partake and its life I’m afraid. Being a mere male I can tell you there are a great bunch of femminazies and cougars out there whose sole apparent aim in life is to wack men or entrap them. Had a snotty one at my door yesterday (Gen y solo mother), and another on the phone the day before. A bunch of them in the last year.
All either snotty because the can’t get their own way over things or get work done and then don’t want to pay or just don’t want to pay their rent and for the damages they cause. Starting to get a bit sick of their shit attitudes.

Critics have claws out for ‘Cougar’ campaign
By ESTHER HAYWARD – Sunday Star Times

An Air New Zealand online marketing campaign that mocks the desperation of older women (or “cougars”) who supposedly prowl bars looking for younger men to bed has been criticised as being sexist and “lame”.

An email to subscribers of the airline’s Grabaseat discount airfare site directs them to a fake documentary clip on YouTube about the mating habits of the “cougar”, complete with a Discovery Channel-style voice-over.

Behind images of a desperate-looking 30-something woman hitting on a man in his 20s, the deep-voiced narrator says bars in Auckland’s Viaduct are overrun with women in their 30s, 40s and 50s preying on younger men in a quest for sex. The men, mainly in their 20s, may even “pretend to be gay” to avoid the women, but are “dragged off to their inner-city apartments and cruelly made to listen to Enya or the Eurythmics”.

It says the behaviour of cougars has had a “devastating effect” on young male “herds” so authorities have introduced P addicts to control cougar numbers. They latch on to the cougar’s bank account so she doesn’t have money for shoes or gold jewellery, which she relies on to catch her prey.

The spoof documentary is promoting the airline’s offer to give 60 tickets away to next month’s Wellington Sevens rugby tournament. “Cougar” women, aged 35-plus, are invited to email photos of themselves out on the town with their cougar mates. Meanwhile, a simultaneous promotion run by radio station ZM is selecting 10 young men who will also attend the match, as “meat” for the cougars.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3235375/Critics-have-claws-out-for-Cougar-campaign
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January 17, 2010 9:29am
cha

Reading the SST this morning, my first thought was has Laws identified the Nelson groper? and if so will he be prosecuted?

About a week ago at the close of his radio show Lhaws dropped a clue about why the ex mp left parliament.

A google search using Lhaws clue and the name was on the first page.
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January 17, 2010 9:31am
democracymum

Viking2

I did not say Air NZ are not smart – just that I think this particular ad is not that funny. Perhaps they could do a similar mockumentary style ad for their new uniforms – now that would be funny 🙂
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January 17, 2010 9:38am
Manolo

“However, Auckland comedian and poet Penny Ashton said the ad was sexist, and painting women as predators and men as their feeble prey “incensed” her.”

Who cares about what feminazis and fellow “poets” think?

As a country, New Zealand appears to have lost all sense of humour, while infected with the most active strain of political correctness.
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January 17, 2010 9:44am
Bok2

Oh FFS
Get over yourself! DM. Air NZ is something you should celebrate. The one thing in NZ that takes on the world and beats it every time. voted best airline against mega giants. Compared to the one we have here that god only knows how they even stay in the air. (talking about qantas)

There is something more stylish and substantial about the Air NZ brand than any other.
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January 17, 2010 9:45am
andrei

Is it just me?

But I find it ironic that the claws are out for a woman who behaved just like the woman in in the ad on the thread below.
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January 17, 2010 9:56am
Redbaiter

“Air NZ is something you should celebrate.”

What are you? They’re a bunch of commie drop kicks who should have been left to go broke rather than bailed out with my fucking money by the cronyist Klark. I’lll celebrate like hell the day these bunch of losers go under as they should have years ago.

There is something more stylish and substantial about the Air NZ brand than any other.

Jezuz H Christ- they remind me of a local version of Aeroflot, especially the attitude of the staff.
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January 17, 2010 9:57am
democracymum

Bok2

I did not say I do not celebrate Air NZ.
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January 17, 2010 10:00am
XChequer

“I did not say Air NZ are not smart – just that I think this particular ad is not that funny. Perhaps they could do a similar mockumentary style ad for their new uniforms – now that would be funny :-)”

Nice answer, Demomum.
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January 17, 2010 10:04am
Viking2

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/opinion/3235251/Michael-Laws-I-m-right-behind-bloggers-challenge-to-suppression
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January 17, 2010 10:05am
eszett

Jezuz H Christ- they remind me of a local version of Aeroflot, especially the attitude of the staff.

Ha, I knew you were secretly a commie, red.
How else would you know what that staff attitude at Aeroflot is like? You must be a regular with them.
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January 17, 2010 10:12am
Viking2

yep, according to their computers he has logged up a couple of million air points but can’t use them on Airnz.
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January 17, 2010 10:18am
Pete George

By doing so, Slater has earned the censure and contempt, ironically, of most of the so-called blogger community. One simple reason: they’re jealous.

It doesn’t sound like he has actually researched the response from the “blogger community” very much.

At it seems like he is trying to grab a bit of the publicity by pushing the suppression boundaries – I wonder if he was jealous of the attention others were getting.

Blogger Slater is challenging such legal shibboleths and all power to him. His tilt, and those of his fellow internet communicators, will likely have more political effect than the recent and arid tome of the Law Commission.

Talkbalk radio, newspaper columns and blogs may be able to challenge laws, but they will never replace the Law Commission, select committees and other parts of the law change process. They are an agitation, but not a solution.
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January 17, 2010 10:38am
reid

Interesting letter from Jack Straw who warned Blair a year before the Iraq invasion that:

…Iraq posed no greater threat to the UK thanit had done previously. The letter said there was “no credible evidence” linking Iraq to Al-Qaeda and that the “threat from Iraq has not worsened as a result of 11 September”…

The letter went on to question the very objective of military action. Straw warned Blair: “We have also to answer the big question — what will this action achieve? There seems to be a larger hole in this than on anything.”

Straw said there was “no certainty that the replacement regime will be better” than that of Saddam Hussein.

Despite this warning a year ahead of the war, the planning by Blair and other coalition leaders for the aftermath of war was dismal. Iraq descended into bloody chaos that cost more lives than the war itself.

And yet there remain some who to this day, whole-heartedly approve not only of the decision to take action but also the way it was done. And these same people keep bleating on about the mythical connection between Al Qaida and Saddam. Useful idiots? Useful morons is more like it.
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January 17, 2010 11:15am
Bok2

Red you dillbrain. Air NZ has repaid “your money” a number of times over in dividends and taxes to the NZ Gov. I think you will find that they are the highest or second highest taxpayer in NZ. They employ over 10 000 people and after the gov they are the single biggest provider of employment and of foreign income (Both directly and indirectly.)

Their marketing overseas, that they pay for, has been one of the major influences in the tourist numbers in NZ.

In a recent survey in the US Air NZ was the one airline that people associated with an image. That of a clean green holiday.

Yes they got bailed out. But you fool, they went on to use the lifeline and repay it back many fold. Unlike you who presumably got bailed out with an education, but failed to grow in intellect.
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January 17, 2010 11:15am
Pete George

This highlights how trying to maintain ideological purity leads to common sense conundrums.

The Air NZ example demonstrates how a reasonable mix of socialism and capitalism ain’t always so bad.
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January 17, 2010 11:28am
Bok2

Bullshit Pete
The bailing out of Air NZ had nothing to do with socialism. It was simply a case of the country needing the airline to survive. A purely capitalist view of investment for future returns. A bit like a corporation buying into a company that is about to fail because they can see the future returns. Air NZ was in trouble because Cushing was intent on “showing the Aussies” who was the boss. They bought an airline without due diligence and they bought an airline that was due to fail within months. The problem was that 1) the trouble Ansett was in was bigger than they knew and 2) 911 happened and immediate revenue dropped dramatically.

In fact from a socialist point of view, the investment was a total flop. Air NZ went on to make massive profits and in fact during the GEC were one of the only carriers world wide to continue in the black. Capitalist to the core and Fife and his team are the epitome of what great management and capitalism can achieve.

There was no socialism involved in this one, sorry.
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January 17, 2010 11:51am
malcolm

But I find it ironic that the claws are out for a woman who behaved just like the woman in in the ad

It’s subtle, Andrei. The main difference is the women in the ad isn’t a politician who regularly make pronoucements on the fantastic morality she’s picked up from the Bible and how she can tell the good and bad people apart by who they have sex with, etc, but has then spectacularly failed to eat her own dogfood. That’s mildly hypocritical and interesting in the normal fall-from-grace, random-act-of-human-frailty sort of way.
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January 17, 2010 11:55am
malcolm

There was no socialism involved in this one, sorry.

Other than rewarding failure.

But I generally agree that Air NZ was probably worth more to NZ indirectly than the cost of bailing it out (both the money and rewarding-failure cost). “A foolish Consistency is the hobgoblins of little minds..”
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January 17, 2010 12:00pm
Bok2

On Rob Fife.
This guy is an absolute genius as far as a CEO is concerned. he has turned the culture in ZAIr NZ from a negative, “we hate the company” and “us and them” culture fostered by FARSA, the union, to one where the level of engagement by the staff is phenomenal.

My wife worked in management in Air NZ and is now in the same industry in Aus. Every function we go to and every person we meet wants to talk about Air NZ. Wants to know what it was like to be involved with a legacy carrier like Air NZ. But even more telling. A number of ex Air NZ staff works for her now, and without exception, they miss Air NZ, the team, the people and the culture. And bar none, they did not leave to go “to something better” but for other reasons.

But more than anything has been Fife’s performance in building the esprit de corps. The way he acted during the tragedy in France and the way he went against the machine for his people on that one, as well as the way he reacted when the airline won the recent accolades (gave every employee a day off) has meant that even his biggest enemies from within, are starting to come around. And he had a hard road. Guiding a company that size through the massive changes to make it more profitable, while getting the workforce on your side is simply amazing.

The final point that underscores Fife’s abilities and his talent is that his failings are forgiven very quickly and without to much fuss. Ask any-one who has worked in the airline industry and they will tell you that rumours and gossip is the force of the day. yet he has been forgiven and protected when he has made social errors. And the big one was the uniform (thunderbirds) It was an unmitigated disaster and he drove it and owned it. for most it would have been the death nail. Not for Fife.
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January 17, 2010 12:09pm
Pete George

But Bok, you are talking about socialism, not Socialism, the “government involved in anything” bogeyman. One doesn’t have to be a socialist to earn the Socialist/Commie tag, it’s just a blind blanket put down.

If a democratically elected government funds anything that could make a profit, is that socialism or capitalism? Picking winners rather than letting the market decide? Could be very fuzzy boundaries. That is the point I was making.
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January 17, 2010 12:14pm
Bok2

Malcom
The thing was that failure was not rewarded. The board was dumped, they made the mistake. The airline did not fail. In fact at the time they were running huge profits (I think in the region of $140mil a quarter) The one thing that I absolutely am livid about though is that Cushing and Mccrae walked away scot free. They needed to de held accountable. There is even a suggestion that they dumped their shares. In fact Toomey was made a scapegoat (It was put in place before he joined) and it ruined him and his career forever. In fact I think he is lucky to be alive (heart attack from the stress)

The big thing is that the airline is owned by you kiwis. ( And I have some shares as well) It is a great airline. No it is the best airline. I fly business and first only and Air NZ business is better than any first class i have flown in. Simply because of the staff. And remember they have to deal with passengers like Redbaiter and Dads4justice a lot of the time.
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January 17, 2010 12:18pm
Bok2

Pete if you are talking about redbaiter’s idea of what makes socialism, then i agree. But then he also believes in the tooth fairy, that the earth is 5000 years old and that the easter bunny is yellow (it is blue with green stars by the way).

It is when an democratically elected government funds something that makes a loss (railways) that it is socialism. Investing and bailing out Air NZ had nothing to do with propping up an airline just because we needed it to keep people employed, or because every country should have one. It was a sound business decision, not a social one. In fact I believe Cullen at the time was very keen on cutting it loose. They were given advice that it was a good investment to retain Air NZ.
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January 17, 2010 12:28pm
Redbaiter

“Red you dillbrain. Air NZ has repaid “your money” a number of times over in dividends and taxes to the NZ Gov. ”

An utterly pointless comment. So would the airline who stepped into the gap if Air NZ had been permitted to go broke as they should have. They’re commie arseholes who can’t run an airline and whose in plane and ground staff act like they’re doing you a favour just by being there. Not a patch on Singapore Airlines.

And what’s with this big hand clap for “paying tax: anyway? Paying tax is no fucking benefit to anyone. Its just wasted on corrupt politicians, slovenly shiny arsed bureaucrats, inefficient services, racist bludgers and cronyist businessmen.

…and you approve of the government running businesses?? Airlines????

Get a life for fuck’s sake. Next thing you’ll want to be putting up a statue of Mussolini at Mangere airport.
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January 17, 2010 12:29pm
Redbaiter

That’s what’s wrong with NZ- too many damn communists posing as right wingers.
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January 17, 2010 12:30pm
Redbaiter

and too many facists posing as liberals..
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January 17, 2010 12:32pm
dad4justice

Look at all the liberal “businessmen” flying first class thanks to socialism. Does Bok1 have a braincell – unlike Bok2 ? Air NZ is a disgrace to every sane kiwi!
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January 17, 2010 12:34pm
Viking2

Rob Fife, best CEO in NZ of any large company. No debate.

Competition for Clinthoid.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26595191-3102,00.html
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January 17, 2010 1:25pm
Jack5

More warming for the global warming mob:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7005963/Taxpayers-millions-paid-to-Indian-institute-run-by-UN-climate-chief.html
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January 17, 2010 2:38pm
Jack5

Viking 2 posted at 1.25:

…Rob Fife, best CEO in NZ of any large company. No debate…

Don’t know about that Viking2, but Air NZ’s one of the best companies to be CEO of. Huge Government shareholding, and Government has already saved it once. Can’t fail, because it’s taxpayer underwritten.

We should have taken Buffett’s advice: never invest in an airline.
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January 17, 2010 2:39pm
Whafe

Bok2 – I commend you on your positive thougths on Air NZ, you are right on a number of things, but I dont agree on them being the best airline in the world.

Like you I used to fly loads, avergaed 300 flights per year, last year did 18 return trips to Barcelona in 9 months…. (have moved back here now though, got to much)

From a business class perspective, Air NZ is great, this because of the lay flat beds, good when one is 6’4….. But service wise, Singapore Airlines pisses on AirNZ!

And petty I know, but sheesh, there is some butts on AirNZ that are built with heavy duty running gear!

Business Class Auckland to Barcelona on Singapore Airlines was 5K NZD cheaper than Air NZ!

Anyway, you make some valid points. I too have friends in management at AirNZ, they are not some complimentary about the company… There travel staff perks compared to other airlines is SHITE..
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January 17, 2010 2:42pm
Bok2

Whafe the staff travel perks in all airlines makes people complain, why I dont know. In Air NZ you get unlimited ID 90 (10% of full fare) and you can fly as often as you like. An upgrade to bussiness use to cost me less for two of us than flying economy for one person.

Virgin and Virgin blue gives you absolutely free flights. So at first it seems a lot better (qantas the same I believe) however it is limited to I believe 100 sectors (quite a lot I agree, but people always run out.) Also more difficult and more expensive to upgrade to bussiness.) The real kicker is however that you are flying standby. I have been present when Executive staff (my wife) was bumped because they were on standby. At Air NZ your ticket was confirmed.
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January 17, 2010 3:55pm
Viking2

So the staff have to do the same as people working for grocers and all other types of business. Pay some of their way. How sad. Grocery staff don’t get big discounts, neither do petrol station staff nor bank staff nor Fonterra staff nor a zillion others.
The business is about reward for shareholders not perks for the staff. Pay the shareholders more and they will invest in the staff and the business.
Time some of you figured out why businesses have shareholders.
If you want Singapore rates why don’t you ask the unions to allow Singapore pay or you could even get Chinese hostesses s. Problen this creates is that the average Kiwi loses his/her job and goes on the dole. Means the rest of us have to carry them, which is what you all complain about.
Next time you are buying chinese this or that add 100% and give it to the govt. for welfare in NZ.
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January 17, 2010 4:03pm
Chthoniid

Rob Fife, best CEO in NZ of any large company. No debate.

Competition for Clinthoid.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26595191-3102,00.html

Mr Van Den Broeke has captured a very good photo- I’d be thrilled to have something like that in my portfolio.
He’s correct about the ‘patience and luck’ ingredients.
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January 17, 2010 4:31pm
eszett

# Redbaiter (8437) Says:
January 17th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

and too many facists posing as liberals..

Ironic remark of the day!
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January 17, 2010 4:31pm
Bok2

Sorry Viking dont know who you are grumpy at. I think Air NZ has great staff travel arrangements. But yes i agree staff travel is a huge perk. And one that is not replicated in any other place of employment. I always have a smirk when people complain about staff travel.
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January 17, 2010 4:40pm
Zvarri

“An utterly pointless comment. So would the airline who stepped into the gap if Air NZ had been permitted to go broke as they should have.”

If another company had stepped in the gap the profits would all have been funneled into overseas bank accounts never to be seen in this country again. I find it perplexing how one of the governments most successful business ventures is deemed incorrigible to you merely because the money is going somewhere other then what your failed neo-liberal ideology dictates.
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January 17, 2010 4:52pm
Manolo

“We should have taken Buffett’s advice: never invest in an airline.”

I took the Oracle of Omaha’s advice years ago and sold Qantas and Air NZ shares at peak and made a tidy profit in the process.

By the way, don’t buy any hotel chain shares either. 🙂
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January 17, 2010 5:11pm
Whafe

Viking2 = I agree what you are saying about Singapore / Chinese etc, but from a business view point, there are not many businesses that can afford to pay 5K each trip of 18 over 9 months!

And I am one whom will pay way more to not at all purchase anything from China…. It is just getting harder and harder to vote with my feet so to speak…

And on travel perks, yes it is far better than none. i think though you would find if the perks went, all that Bok2 has said re staff morale etc would then be in the toilet… Cheap travel makes up for loads of factors that are crap in the workplace…
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January 17, 2010 5:31pm
Pete George

Disasters seem to play right into the hands of nut jobs, not just Robertson but also Limbaugh:

“This will play right into President Obama’s hands — humanitarian, compassionate. They’ll use this to burnish their, shall we say, credibility with the black community — in the both light-skinned and dark-skinned black community in this country. It’s made to order for them.”

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/hlpfnwvvgn–This-will-play-right-into-Obama%27s-hands

And there have also been posts on this blog trying to turn a natural catastrophe into some political point scoring opportunity.

Looters are in action in Haiti, while publicity seeking looters use any opportunity to benefit from the misery of others.
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January 17, 2010 6:08pm
grumpyoldhori

Bok2 I have a road transport background but when I hear some arguing that all the rails should be pulled I wonder what fucking planet they are on.
When it comes to moving bulk low value by weight cargo such as coal overland rail cannot be beaten.
Yes a fuckup was made in selling the track as well as the business but I notice they are opening up tunnels to allow hi cube containers to be railed now.
I notice that those who whine about the rail are often the ones who are also against extra productivity of trucks by way of higher gross vehicle weights
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January 17, 2010 7:08pm
Whafe

Grumpy – Interesting to hear they are opening up a number of tunnels to handle the high cube containers. Is there a project to do the main trunk line from say Auckland to Wellington? or is more spasmodic?
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January 17, 2010 7:24pm
Bok2

Hori nothing against rail at all. Simply talking about support for businesses that does not make a profit. If rail is highly profitable and if moving freight is better by rail, then great. Support it with all you have, I would.
But subsidy is bad.
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January 17, 2010 7:40pm
Bok2

Whafe
having a wife that started as a nurse then a flight attendant and then moved into management, I find your comments interesting. She still says that being a flight attendant is the best job in the world. Yes you have long flights and yes you do get fatigued. But try and be a nurse who works 10 to 12 hour days, four days in a row. Does not get to stay in a 5 star hotel and does not get some US$180 per day to pay for food (Tax free).

The nurse has to put up with everything the flight attendant does except the lack of oxygen and the staying away. So sorry the argument that they need staff travel is bull. It is nice and we all love it, but the nurse, cop or fireman does not get those benefits. I directed a series for television in NZ around hospital staff. Speak to them about staff perks. I was blown away by their commitment even though they got squat in return.
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January 17, 2010 7:50pm
Viking2

Subsidy depends on the alternative. Trucks versus rail for coal,milk or logs. Perhaps the levies omposed on trucks is way to low for the use of the roads.
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January 17, 2010 7:50pm
Bok2

HoriWhen you say it cannot be beaten, is that in true miles per dollar? I do not know much about transport. I am not telling you or giving you an opinion, I am asking. But I would like to know true cost. If the Gov has to put in 100 mil a year to keep it going, then that has to be added to each mile. However if they chuck in a bil and get it back over 5 years, then it is a different story. The point is that they have to get back more than they put in for it to be viable.
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January 17, 2010 7:54pm
Paul Marsden

Talk to the staff at Air NZ. Its commonly held knowledge (and view), that Rob Fife is gay. No problem with that of course, but might help the public understand why some of Air NZ’s marketing strategies are so risque. Despite the odium from some more senior cabin crew that the ads bring into disrepute the reputation of the airline, its hard to argue against success.
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January 17, 2010 7:55pm
Viking2

Yep and bok2 try being self employed in a SME. Beginning to wonder why we all bother. Beaten up by everyone fom the Govt, taxman, banks, staff, unions, suppliers, customers especially geny solo mothers, all for what.
Life’s better at the beach and unemployed, no stress, none of the above but hard to do when all one wants is to make a dollar without all the crap.
Maybe AIRnz could pass some of those free travel vouchers out to a bunch of SME’s after all mostly we bailed them out with very little thanks.
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January 17, 2010 7:56pm
Viking2

Bok2; utopia would be the govt, and local bodies ran everything they do at a profit even if it takes five years but history is against that ever happening.
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January 17, 2010 7:59pm
Redbaiter

Bok, it does not matter what the fuck the cost is. There is no way government should be running or worse, bailing out businesses. It is not the role of government to use taxpayer money to prop up favourites. If you want some practical rather than ideological reasons, the first one is that it leads to a reduction in competition as government legislates to protect its market share, and a reduction in competition is never good for business or the public.
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January 17, 2010 8:50pm
malcolm

Re cheap travel for Air NZ staff, if it is indeed stand-by and paying customers are given preference then I would say it’s a cheap perk for the company. The plane is flying anyway and sure it will use a bit more fuel for the extra passenger but I imagine the 10% payment probably covers that. So it costs the company a lot less than the value to the employee, hence win-win.
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January 17, 2010 8:57pm
grumpyoldhori

Whafe as I understand it, it is spasmodic at this time.
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January 17, 2010 9:18pm
Redbaiter

“Whafe as I understand it, it is spasmodic at this time.”

Quite like the delivery of blood to your brain.
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January 17, 2010 9:20pm
grumpyoldhori

Bok2 In cannot be beaten I am of course going for a minimum paylad of say 500 tonne per train.
But the country will look rather stupid if we come across a lot of valuable minerals right next to where we pulled the bloody rails up.

As for those who rant about market forces I notice they are never happy with the ideal of paying the full cost of damage done by three axle trucks to class 2 roads when they are getting a dig done for their new house.
Funny how many socialists are around if they are charged the true cost for road user fees.
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January 17, 2010 9:33pm
Whafe

Grumpy – Thanks for clarifying that… I am pretty much 100% that as long as my ass points to the ground, there will not be high cube tunnels for the full main trunk line from Auckland to Wellington…. Please prove me wrong….
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January 17, 2010 9:44pm
Hurf Durf

Delirium grasping at straws, again. I don’t know why he just doesn’t give up.
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January 17, 2010 9:54pm
Doug

It’s good to see Clare Curran getting her ass wiped at Red Alert over her stand on republicanism it will be fun watching her and her rent a crowd feature on TV One & TV3 BBC News and other worldwide news agencies. This protest won’t go down well with the general public in New Zealand and overseas. It shows up labour for what it is, a Party of State control.
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January 17, 2010 10:00pm
Bok2

Sorry viking 2 I believe we are arguing on the same side here. (Except for the bailout) I have run my own business for the last 25 years so I know how tough it is. My point was that AIR NZ crew has great staff perks in response to some-one suggesting that their staff travel sucked.

As for the bailout, read my posts earlier. Air NZ has always been profitable, the bailout stopped the airline going under for sure, however it was not the airline that was the problem in the first place, but the board and the parent company.

Grumpy I have never suggested the ripping up of lines etc.
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January 17, 2010 11:10pm
KiwiGreg

“I fly business and first only and Air NZ business is better than any first class i have flown in. ”

Try Emirates First class then.

Rob Fyfe is a relentless self-promoter. Airlines are a terrible business to invest in, they are inherently boom-bust. Air NZ looks actually quite good compared with others simply because they run certain routes as a duopoly cartel. You only have to look at comparable pricing to see the effect of this.
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January 18, 2010 10:56am
OTGO

Rail will never exist in NZ without a subsidy. Last week it cost the taxpayer 1 million dollars and this week it will too, and next week and so on. Maybe (and its a big maybe) if rail figure out it isn’t about trains but more about freight then they may have a chance. Rail on a narrow guage in a narrow hilly country of 4 million people is a loser. Solution, upgrade the roads especially SH1 so heavier trucks can carry more freight and emphasise more coastall shipping.
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January 18, 2010 10:59am
Redbaiter

“Rail on a narrow guage in a narrow hilly country of 4 million people is a loser.”

Bbbbbbbbut but it works in Europe and Japan..!!!!
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January 18, 2010 11:01am
OTGO

Sorry is this better – Rail on a narrow guage in a narrow hilly country of 4 million narrow people is a loser
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January 18, 2010 3:27pm

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