General Debate 27 December 2009

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Viking2

Danger lurks for NZ. Not at home but in the Lucky Country.

Debt level enters danger zone
Article from: The Sunday Mail (Qld)

Nick Gardner

December 27, 2009 12:00am

FAMILIES have plunged dangerously into the red – for the first time owing more in household debt than the entire economy earns in a year.

As shoppers splurged on Boxing Day sales again yesterday, The Sunday Mail can reveal our outstanding debt on mortgages, credit cards and loans now stands at $1.2 trillion – up 71 per cent in five years.

The record credit binge – fuelled largely by the first-home buyer’s grant – means every adult, on average, owes more than $74,000.

The extraordinary rise in debt means we now owe more per person than the US, the one-time credit capital of the world where household debt stands at just under $50,000 per person.

Reserve Bank figures show personal debt now equates to 100.4 per cent of Australia’s annual GDP, one of the highest ratios in the developed world.

“It’s the first time household debt has cracked 100 per cent of annual GDP and it’s a terrible, terrible sign,” said University of NSW economics professor Steve Keen.

“It shows we are living beyond our means.”

Mortgages account for almost 90 per cent of annual GDP, up from 17 per cent in 1990. The remainder is taken up with $45 billion on credit cards and more than $90 billion on personal debts.

And Australia’s financial headache is likely to get worse before it gets better.

We are in the middle of the peak spending season yet the Reserve Bank data applies to October’s debt levels only. And there are another two months of First Home Owner Grant-fuelled mortgage activity still to be taken into account.

Research firm Fujitsu Consulting’s latest monthly survey of 10,000 families shows the typical household is paying about 39 per cent of its income on debt repayments.

“Stressed” households will be paying 41 per cent and a “severely stressed” household about 43 per cent.

Economists fear 2010 could see a slowdown in Australia’s anaemic economic growth, and possibly even a contraction.

Financial markets predict the cash rate will rise from 3.75 per cent to about 4.4 per cent by this time next year.

There are also concerns rising rates will create a belated “credit crunch”, as banks pull back on lending.
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December 27, 2009 10:06am
Pete George

Don’t we have the same danger here? Every record in spending ir heralded as a great achievement, Boxing Day “sales” are glamorised and glorified as if it is something great to do, and the sheep do it. And keep spending more and more borrowed money.

As a society we are addicted to over-consumption and living beyond our means, and the promotion continues.
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December 27, 2009 10:14am
cha

@viking2, ffs, spare me the cut and paste and learn some tabs.
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December 27, 2009 10:19am
cha

Apologies V2, shitty as this morning.
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December 27, 2009 10:24am
Redbaiter

Good review of James Cameron’s Avatar-

Avatar the movie: the religion of the left
By Phill Kline

The visuals are stunning, the story borrowed and the message shallow and false. John Cameron’s new epic Avatar features a jump in animation technology and a throwback of over 1,000 years to pantheism.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2415427/posts
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December 27, 2009 10:25am
Redbaiter

Five Reasons Why Fox News Dominated Ratings In 2009

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/five-reasons-why-fox-news-dominated-ratings-in-2009/

Shame that NZ’s largely left wing media can’t catch the wave, but instead prefer to pursue their unpopular progressive political agenda.

Then they have the gall to complain that their medium and their jobs are going down the tube. Stuck fast in a dinosauric time warp that prevents them from understanding that the internet has finally killed the subtle and cunning art of promoting Progressive politics at the expense of news and information.
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December 27, 2009 10:33am
Redbaiter

James Cameron is a “pomegranate”-

http://navlog.org/pomegranates.html
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December 27, 2009 10:35am
billyborker

Day after day, week after week, month after month the usual redneck, right wing, never done a decent days work in their lives knuckle draggers of the kiwiblogospher vent their spleen at hard working, under paid public servants, especially those in IRD.

How about a big round of applause for the hard working, underpaid IRD staff who took on the might of the banks and recovered over $2 billion in unpaid tax. If the banks had won, you can rest assure they’d be handing out bonuses all round, yet here we don’t see any thanks, let alone praise, for the hard working, underpaid and highly succesful IRD staff.
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December 27, 2009 10:39am
Viking2

cha; have days like that myself.
Still thought it was a worthwhile post as it shows up the socialists for what they really are. Add that to yesterdays report that the Aussies have lost their tax cuts and the pattern starts to look familiar.
At least we are part the way out of that abyss. All we have to do yet is get the socialists-lite to take some serious action instead of hoping the world will come right.
I noted that the NZPA and DPF were signing the praises this morning for a rather ineffectual year. Unfortunately for both of them the real issues have not gone away and no amount of telling themselves what fine fellows they are will change that.
We have had a year of appeasement and compromise, (which makes a change from the Bolgers years of compromise I suppose.).
Sad really when we could have done much and achieved so much more for the betterment of our citizens in total rather than special interest groups.
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December 27, 2009 10:48am
Pete George

It’s not surprising there are corny plotlines in Avatar, Cameron’s Titanic was a titanic movie at the box office, but while I quite enjoyed the major spectacle some of the minor plots were pathetic. That will be my expectations for Avatar when I go and see it.
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December 27, 2009 10:52am
billyborker

“Add that to yesterdays report that the Aussies have lost their tax cuts …”

Which tax cuts were lost?
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December 27, 2009 10:55am
grumpyoldhori

Viking2 funny that,when I posted that the cards should be allowed to fall as they would concerning banks etc, I can remember a couple of right wing types suggesting that the free market was owed a bail out.
So do you believe in the free market with no rescues at all ? or are free market ideals too harsh when they bite right wingers ?
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December 27, 2009 11:07am
Inventory2

@ Billyborker (10.39am) – whilst I agree with you about the success of the IRD over the banks, why did you have to preface an otherwise reasoned post with abuse, most of which is so factually incorrect that it’s not even funny? For the record, in the six weeks leading up to Christmas, my wife and I started a new business, employed additional staff, and worked, on average 70-80 hours per week. We’ve also put a truckload of our own money into our business, because we believe in what we do, and what we can achieve.

Stick to the facts billy, and people might actually take what you write more seriously.
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December 27, 2009 11:08am
Redbaiter

” Security has been beefed up on flights from New Zealand to the United States, after a Nigerian man allegedly tried to destroy a plane flying from Amsterdam to Detroit on Christmas Day. ”

Groan… these incompetent dildos can’t wait to make air travel even more of a piss off than they have made it so far. This was a systems failure you dumbarses- the man was on a no fly list and being watched as a potential terrorist for two years. Yet still got on the plane. How does this failure relate to security procedures on the ground in NZ???

I’ll tell you hiw this guy got on the plane. Government security officials are all bumbling incompetent idiots. And they’re now seeking to smokescreen their incomptence with even further inconvenience to the travelling public.

From FOX News-

” Officials also questioned whether intelligence agencies were properly sharing information about the suspect, since sources said his name was on a federal watch list even though he was not on a “no-fly list.” The suspect, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, had been in an intelligence database that includes people with known or suspected terrorist ties, and officials knew about that possible connection for “some time,” a U.S. official told Fox News.”
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December 27, 2009 11:16am
Redbaiter

” why did you have to preface an otherwise reasoned post with abuse, ”

So that he can provoke responses from soft brained idiots like you who feed his narcissism out of your own sad desire to make this a lonely hearts club rather than a political forum.
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December 27, 2009 11:18am
billyborker

IV2, look no further than reddy and bigbruv here http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/12/oreilly_predicts_public_service_strife.html#comments
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December 27, 2009 11:19am
Pita

Today: The Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs has announced a call up to all top Israeli diplomats serving around the world to return home for talks
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December 27, 2009 11:23am
billyborker

Will the talks be held in under ground bumnkers as they unleash their nuclear armageddon?
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December 27, 2009 11:25am
jims_whare

Im with Inventory – my missus and I are in the same boat self employed/long hours/paper work/equity put into our business/ employees work hard for us but at the end of the day when they are home relaxing we carry the risk in the hope that our hard work will bring some reward.

Billy hard working underpaid public servants….please?? Public Servants in general have the most risk free employment and have had pay rises well above the norm over the last few years….as to hard working ever tried ringing govt dept and getting stuff done in a hurry?….what a joke! (Front line staff excepted)

Maybe BIlly are you refering to beneficiarties as public servants…huh? As in youself huh? What a joke
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December 27, 2009 11:40am
Matt Long

Are you sure those IRD workers did such a good job? http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3194229/Banks-sidestep-huge-bill

“The Government’s tax avoidance deal struck with the four big Australian-owned banks has cost New Zealand at least $589 million.”
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December 27, 2009 11:42am
billyborker

jims_whare (22) Says:

December 27th, 2009 at 11:40 am

Maybe BIlly are you refering to beneficiarties as public servants…huh? As in youself huh? What a joke

Is the whale the omly protected species, or does this count as personal abuse?

[DPF: You need to learn the difference between iniatating and responding]
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December 27, 2009 12:17pm
billyborker

God asleep at the wheel – again

[DPF: 50 demerits for gross offensivess in mocking someone’s death]
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December 27, 2009 12:23pm
billyborker

Matt Long (30) Says:

December 27th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Are you sure those IRD workers did such a good job? http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3194229/Banks-sidestep-huge-bill

“The Government’s tax avoidance deal struck with the four big Australian-owned banks has cost New Zealand at least $589 million.”

Without those IRD workers, the entire scam would have gone un noticed. The settlement will have been drawn up by the lawyers and is still a good outcome. Treasury gets the money now, rather than another few years in the courts increasing costs, reducing returns.
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December 27, 2009 12:25pm
TripeWryter

Pointless … what?

I can’t use the word ‘journalism’, because it wasn’t journalism. I can’t say reporting, because the Sunday Star-Times was ‘reporting’ … what?

I am referring to the so-called story (yes, we’ll call it a ‘story’) in the Sunday Star-Times this morning about a Matamata man who is on bail after having been charged with killing his wife. He is on bail to his parents’ home.

Fine. If that’s how the legal system works.

But the story was all about the man tearfully telling an interviewer that he wasn’t a killer. He uttered various justifications but refused to answer the question about whether he had shot his wife.

And that’s how it should be too. The place for such questions and answers is the courtroom.

So, you have to wonder why did the Sunday Star-Times think this was a story. What did the SST expect the man to say?

What was the point of going and interviewing a man charged with the killing of his wife?

What was the story, morning glory?
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December 27, 2009 12:48pm
MikeNZ

what actually earned porker 50 demerits DPF?

a- was it a ministers death,
b – a PI,
c – the death itself,
d – deliberately offensive post towards people of faith
e – lack of respect for family and community in a loved ones death

I’m interested how you weight offense and intention?

[DPF: He was gloating over the fact someone died. Basically (e).]
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December 27, 2009 1:08pm
Leonidas

DPF, Isn’t that a yellow card offense?.
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December 27, 2009 1:27pm
Hurf Durf

Bonkers is about as reasonable as a fly trying to get out of a closed window, RB. Still, he’s gone till March now. I’m looking forward to the peace and quiet.
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December 27, 2009 1:32pm
Don the Kiwi

Agree Hurf Durf.

Piggyporker is a bigotted, abusive, pain in the arse wanker of the first order.

Glad to see the back of him.
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December 27, 2009 2:34pm
MikeNZ

So DPF

You don’t consider that his tone was because the person who died was a Christian and a minister and therefore those facets of the story were the real intention of his humour, hence the byline?

[DPF: I know what he was intending. But what I found offensive was his using the death of a blameless man to make his points]
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December 27, 2009 2:45pm
Angus

Our Billy has a proclivity towards using multiple aliases. A habit which got him booted off NZ Conservative and some stern warnings at The Briefing Room. He eventually goes away if no one responds to his Christianity obsession.
.
Billy & MyNameIsJack are one in the same. Billy shows up at weekends and holidays while Jack is a during the week event.
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December 27, 2009 3:29pm
dime

billys gone till the end of feb? bahahaha
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December 27, 2009 4:08pm
MikeNZ

Sad that is only what you found offensive.

I think there’s a disconnect in your reasoning and I find it disrespectful that you clearly know what he’s doing but don’t find that offensive either.
No matter who/what he attacks gays/PI/Christians/Gingers/Muslims/women/whatever the intention and behaviour is there and acted upon in a stalking manner. It’s not as if it was random or a flare up in conversation but premeditated repeating actions.

and now is this really true that MNIJ/Billy are really two and the same and from the same IP address?
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December 27, 2009 5:40pm
MikeNZ

Just for LUC
A nice reflection on Israeli kids and adults at the UN amongst other places.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-year-after-the-gaza-war-the-forgotten-children-of-sderot/

Not many of the Media are lambasting Egypt for the wall they are building between Gaza and them.
Is it the politics, control or the income stream?
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December 27, 2009 6:22pm
Viking2

grumpy. what are you on about. Please explain. 11.07am
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December 27, 2009 7:05pm
Fletch

I saw Avatar today. It was very good with the graphics and 3D but, like most things that are over-hyped, I wasn’t totally blown away. You could kind of see the ending telegraphed from a mile away.
I must admit that the CGI characters were the most realistically done in any movie I’ve seen. Sometimes you almost forgot (but not quite) that they were CGI. Light years ahead of Gollum, and makes Jar Jar Binks look silly.
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December 27, 2009 7:11pm
Viking2

Interesting opinion.

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2009/12/government-strips-away-your-right-to.html

Meanwhile, people are refusing to fly in larger and larger numbers. Traveling to the US is such a horrific experience, due to the terrorists who work for Homeland Security, that tourism is down significantly. Billions of dollars have been diverted from the US economy by chasing away tourists. In addition, the US has merely soiled its reputation with world travelers as an unpleasant, nasty country to visit. Not long ago a friend told me that she and husband flew to China and had better treatment, and were treated more like free people, flying into China than when they enter the United States. Yep—a totalitarian nation is not as bad as the United States when it comes to travel.

As Scotland Yard joins probe into Nigerian man’s failed attempt to blow up Detroit-bound jet in midair, U.S. officials reveal the suspect was on their radar for at least two years — but still managed to board the plane.’
Fox

http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/2009/12/wtf.html

Perhaps if it had been a Scandinavian grandmother or one of those dreadful ‘right-wing patriots’ they’d have been strip-searched and prevented from boarding?
Thou shalt not profile….
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December 27, 2009 7:26pm
Andrew W

Since Crusader-rabbit’s been mentioned, perhaps Borker could make himself useful and pop over there to tell KG what a pathetic little gutless piece of shit he is for praising the intimidation of women by thuggish british football hooligans.
I’d do it myself except that the hypocritical and gutless little weasel has already banned me.

http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/2009/12/not-everybody-will-meekly-roll-over.html
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December 27, 2009 8:59pm
Redbaiter

” I’d do it myself except that the hypocritical and gutless little weasel has already banned me. ”

Keith is worth a thousand of you, and he makes it quite clear that Crusader Rabbit is not a place for commies like you or Borker. WTF are you doing there??
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December 27, 2009 10:06pm
Ryan Sproull

Andrew,

Crusader Rabbit isn’t explicit in condoning these adolescent gang-style intimidation tactics.
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December 27, 2009 10:15pm
Andrew W

Ryan, in my opinion he’s implicitly endorsing the action of the thugs, now it may be that he’ll now say that’s not what he’s doing, but if he had any guts he’d say explicitly what his point was, like I said, a gutless little weasel.

Red, from his blog posts and comments policy KG makes it clear that he’s a dictatorial prick, with no interest in open debate. This English Defence League (EDL) that, as I said, I think he implicitly endorses, sounds like a pack of fascists to me, and I’ve now come around to your view that there’s fuck all difference between communists and fascists.

Why did I bother going there? Good question, I visit blogs from across the spectrum (as do you) because if someones opinion is worth anything they have to have an understanding of others opinions, but in the end I think you’re right and I am wasting my time there, because much of what KG has to say is not so much an opinion, but rather the rantings of a nutcase.
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December 27, 2009 10:52pm
Ryan Sproull

Andrew,

The people in this English Defence League wear black shirts. If you stopped dithering about hand-wringing leftist websites and read some actual history, you would see that it is only thugs with shirts that are the colour brown that are worth worrying about. These EDL lads just want one people, one nation, possibly and perhaps under one leader. What could possibly go wrong?
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December 27, 2009 11:14pm
Luc Hansen

@MikeNZ 6.22pm

I’m sure it’s very true, as it is very sad, that 8000 children in Sederot suffer from PTSD, just as I am sure you would agree it is very sad that some 800,000 children in Gaza, and many of the 800,000 children in the West Bank, and God only knows how many kids in the refugee camps for Palestinians in the neighbouring countries suffer from the same.

But it’s not about numbers, is it Mike?

It is about the original injustice, and the world is replete with such injustices eventually being addressed. Israel, the country, is an anachronism. It’s a product of days long gone; white supremacist colonisation.

There is one simple way for Israel to ensure no more rockets or mortars from Gaza – tear down the walls and the fences and allow full citizenship to all within the borders of Eretz Israel and the Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt etc. Equal rights for all. And, like in New Zealand under the treaty settlement process, negotiate compensation. The models exist.

As for Egypt and their border control, the answer is also simple. The dictator in control of Egypt is sponsored by the US and Israel. It’s a travesty that the Arab nations have been so badly led over a long, long time, but don’t think that that state of affairs is in spite of our best efforts. Our best efforts are dedicated to exactly that end. At least until the oil runs out.
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December 27, 2009 11:48pm
Andrew W

You’re almost too subtle Ryan, and what set Hitler off on his course of destruction was his anger at (as he saw it) the then German leadership meekly rolling over at the end of WW1.
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December 28, 2009 6:21am
MikeNZ

Dear LUC
I have another simple way though a little different from yours.
Your idea will of course mean the non-existence of Israel and (a home for Jews) which I might have agreed too if you had included all countries that were born/made in the 20th century or if Israel hadn’t got a 3000 year history or if you had fairly dealt with the more than 800,000 Jews forced out of the communities they existed in (some for 2000 years) in Islamic countries since 1948.

So I have a different solution.
1. All so called refugees forced to live in harrowing conditions by the UN and Islamic countries all be absorbed into neighbouring countries bordering Israel and other Muslim states who would take them, with permanent residency/citizenship and right to work. (as should have happened in the first place).
2. The special refugee organisation for Palestinians at the UN dismantled/absorbed into the one for the whole world. (as should have happened in the first place).
3. Gaza become part of Egypt again and they responsible for security, health and daily living not the West and all weapons except small arms for police removed. Or all be resettled into neighbouring Muslim states and it remain part of Israel.
4. The West Bank remains that, the Jewish West Bank and any Muslim not wanting that, leave to be resettled in a neighboring Muslim state as it is part of Israel and houses Jerusalem, the Jewish capital since King David’s time.
5. Israel be given a place in the UN geographic group and a right to a security council seat as are other countries in the area.
6. All neighboring states accept Israel’s right to exist and stop condoning/enabling/facilitating attacks against her and her citizens.
7. Syria and Hizbullah leave Lebanon and the UN actually do the job it agreed to to demilitarise the lower half of Lebanon below the Litani river.
8. All academic and other boycotts cease against Israel from all countries.

But then I do want world peace.
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December 28, 2009 8:42am
jcuknz

As people are TUT TUTTING over the rise in credit card transactions over Christmas and for Boxing Day sales do they remember the story of awhile ago where it was stated that at least half credit card users paid off their cards in full each month. Would the tut-tutting be heard if people were paying cash? Really using the credit card is a different way of paying for things and superior to the old cash and cheque systems. Those people rushing to Boxing Day sales are simply helping the ecconomy to stay afloat. I wasn’t among them but I did my splurge before Xmas, but leaving enough cash in my cheque account to pay off my card in a couple of days time. You could also say that using the card is patriotic as it saves wear and tear of coins and notes that the Government won’t have to replace so soon 🙂
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December 28, 2009 8:44am
MikeNZ

Just read an interesting speech put up at American Thinker.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/engineers_scientific_and_socia.html

Go the Engineers!
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December 28, 2009 9:04am
Rod

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/lets-face-it-the-ets-is-dead/story-e6frg9if-1225813660266
So whither our ETS?
Has JK got the political courage to kill it now?
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December 28, 2009 9:28am

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