General Debate 20 December 2009

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MikeNZ

It seems that the Christmas present that is climate gate will be about the data that is included with the emails.
So we should be in for a Good New Year.

What is worrying is that the old data seems to have disappeared and we are being asked to accept on faith thwe good intentions of those who appear to have fudged it?

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climategate-faster-and-faster-the-dominos-fall/

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/daleo-and-just-like-that-the-warmings-gone-pjm-exclusive/

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climategate-european-carbon-credit-trading-system-plagued-by-fraud/
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December 20, 2009 11:43am
Redbaiter

Another leftist lie (on the Iraq war) exposed-

—————————————————–

U.S. Companies Shut Out as Iraq Auctions Its Oil Fields
By Vivienne Walt Saturday, Dec. 19, 2009

Those who claim that the U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003 to get control of the country’s giant oil reserves will be left scratching their heads by the results of last weekend’s auction of Iraqi oil contracts: Not a single U.S. company secured a deal in the auction of contracts that will shape the Iraqi oil industry for the next couple of decades.

Two of the most lucrative of the multi-billion-dollar oil contracts went to two countries which bitterly opposed the U.S. invasion — Russia and China — while even Total Oil of France, which led the charge to deny international approval for the war at the U.N. Security Council in 2003, won a bigger stake than the Americans in the most recent auction. “[The distribution of oil contracts] certainly answers the theory that the war was for the benefit of big U.S. oil interests,” says Alex Munton, Middle East oil analyst for the energy consultancy Wood Mackenzie, whose clients include major U.S. companies. “That has not been demonstrated by what has happened this week.”

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1948787,00.html?iid=digg_share

You won’t read this in the Herald
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December 20, 2009 11:45am
starboard

The prominent comedian facing a child sex charge denies the allegation and will fight to clear his name, says a close friend.

Tsk Tsk…who’s been a naughty boy then…
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December 20, 2009 11:48am
Redbaiter

How leftists have destroyed Wikipedia as a source of factual information. Here’s a story showing how one slimy lying manipulating leftist AGW zealot doctored Wiki articles in order to support the climate change scam.

Excerpt-

One person in the nine-member Realclimate.org team — U.K. scientist and Green Party activist William Connolley — would take on particularly crucial duties.

Connolley took control of all things climate in the most used information source the world has ever known – Wikipedia. Starting in February 2003, just when opposition to the claims of the band members were beginning to gel, Connolley set to work on the Wikipedia site. He rewrote Wikipedia’s articles on global warming, on the greenhouse effect, on the instrumental temperature record, on the urban heat island, on climate models, on global cooling.

On Feb. 14, he began to erase the Little Ice Age; on Aug.11, the Medieval Warm Period. In October, he turned his attention to the hockey stick graph. He rewrote articles on the politics of global warming and on the scientists who were skeptical of the band. Richard Lindzen and Fred Singer, two of the world’s most distinguished climate scientists, were among his early targets, followed by others that the band especially hated, such as Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, authorities on the Medieval Warm Period.

All told, Connolley created or rewrote 5,428 unique Wikipedia articles. His control over Wikipedia was greater still, however, through the role he obtained at Wikipedia as a website administrator, which allowed him to act with virtual impunity. When Connolley didn’t like the subject of a certain article, he removed it — more than 500 articles of various descriptions disappeared at his hand. When he disapproved of the arguments that others were making, he often had them barred — over 2,000 Wikipedia contributors who ran afoul of him found themselves blocked from making further contributions.

Acolytes whose writing conformed to Connolley’s global warming views, in contrast, were rewarded with Wikipedia’s blessings. In these ways, Connolley turned Wikipedia into the missionary wing of the global warming movement.

Full story here-

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/12/19/lawrence-solomon-wikipedia-s-climate-doctor.aspx

You won’t hear about this if you watch TV One news.
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December 20, 2009 11:49am
MikeNZ

For those of you whom like to read Big Stuff on a Sunday morning and not the papers, these articles caught my eye.
http://www.indiana.edu/~scotus/files/All_Men_Call_God.pdf
http://ndpr.nd.edu/review.cfm?id=2401

personally I’m a Sunday Paper man.
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December 20, 2009 11:55am
MikeNZ

Red
I was not surprised when I read about that sometime last week.
I sincerely hope that all those involved in Climategate and it’s ancillaries are prosecuted for the frauds they are perpetuating.
But I doubt the political will to deal to it as religiously as I’d prefer.
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December 20, 2009 11:57am
Elijah Lineberry

Fresh from the Copenhagen conference, President Obama is returning home to the US where the Washington DC area has been hit by 3 deaths, closed airports and general chaos after 12 inches of ‘global warming’ fell overnight… 😉

http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
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December 20, 2009 11:58am
MikeNZ

Elijah
Real scientists must be worried that they will suffer at at the hands of laymen from the perfidy of the few in their ranks.
Snow laymen can understand whereas graphs take a little time.
All the more important to maak schoon the ranks of science the Gaia Religionistas.
Hell it’s all about Character in the end isn’t it?
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December 20, 2009 12:00pm
Angus

If this was really about global warming you would think that the activists would be relieved, and even angry to find out that much of the information they’ve been fed about a warming world has been manufactured and faked. You would take comfort in the fact that the earth is actually cooling, not warming. It would be much like being told that you don’t have cancer after all. You would be relieved. But if your true motivation has nothing to do with the environment you wouldn’t be so happy. If your true motivation is the destruction of free enterprise and the promotion of socialism and communism you would see these hacked emails and other proof that the global warming scare has been completely manufactured as a threat to your true goals. You would perceive that threat and react strongly against it. Watch the global warming crowd and observe how they’re reacting to a cooling earth and evidence of fraud. Not with relief, but with anger. That should tell you a lot.

http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2009/12/climate-change.html
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December 20, 2009 12:00pm
billyborker

MikeNZ (710) Says:

December 20th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Red
I was not surprised when I read about that sometime last week.
I sincerely hope that all those involved in Climategate and it’s ancillaries are prosecuted for the frauds they are perpetuating.

Yep, great idea, but first I think we should be prosecuting churches for false advertising, inability to deliver as promised and taking of money with menaces.

[DPF: 20 demerits – that is just trolling]
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December 20, 2009 12:01pm
Razork

Now this is not a shot at Maori or maori television but,

Can someone please explain the logic behind playing a foreign movie in a foreign language with english subtitles on maori TV?

How can that benefit for instance Te reo?

At least when they play “Mr Ed” it is actually dubbed over in maori (I kid you not) and may lead to language development or at least reach it’s target market.

But a Chinese movie with English subtitles?
I just don’t get it.
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December 20, 2009 12:11pm
Redbaiter

“But I doubt the political will to deal to it as religiously as I’d prefer.”

That “political will” will always be in doubt while the National Party allows Nick Smith to be their spokesman on this issue.

First step in reforming the National Party into a political force that ABIDES BY ITS STATED PRINCIPLES is to get rid of this contemptible charlatan.
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December 20, 2009 12:12pm
emmess

Excellent comment Angus

You can see it here on a nation state scale
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10616592

The Herald via AP refers to several Latin American countries (i.e. concerned global citizens worried about the future of the rainforest, glaciers and cuddly wuddly polar bears blah blah blah)

Then states what countries they are

Delegates of Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba and Nicaragua also denounced the “Copenhagen Accord”, saying it would not help address global warming and was unfairly worked out behind closed door

Um wait a minute, they all have far left undemocratic communist governments.
But that’s okay according to the media elites – Third world = altruistic, First World = greedy
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December 20, 2009 12:39pm
billyborker

billyborker (1004) Says:

December 20th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
MikeNZ (710) Says:

December 20th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Red
I was not surprised when I read about that sometime last week.
I sincerely hope that all those involved in Climategate and it’s ancillaries are prosecuted for the frauds they are perpetuating.

Yep, great idea, but first I think we should be prosecuting churches for false advertising, inability to deliver as promised and taking of money with menaces.

[DPF: 20 demerits – that is just trolling]

How the FUCK can it be trolling in GD? I stand by every word of it. Churches lie. Churches deceive. Churches make false claims. Churches destroy lives and break up families. Churches take money under duress and with menaces. Churches have abused countless vulnerable children they were supposed to be caring for and protecting. There is no bigger force for evil on Earth than organised religion.

[DPF: GD has lighter standards but at the end of the day it is meant to be about somewhat topical issues. You do not have license to turn it into a flamefest on religion every day. Set your own blog up for that.]
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December 20, 2009 1:21pm
MikeNZ

1. Can someone please explain trolling for me?
sorry to be such a newbie on this.

2. Also some of you put others quotes into your replies and make it stand out by the formatting, can you tell me how to do it or give me a link to an explanation.
3. I’d like to be able to make my inposts (sic) italicised like Billy did with mine too.
it looks so much cleaner and readable.
Thanks
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December 20, 2009 1:22pm
billyborker

MikeNZ (713) Says:

December 20th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
1. Can someone please explain trolling for me?
sorry to be such a newbie on this.

Anything Farrar doesn’t like me saying.
It comes from a method of fishing, where you troll, or drag the line through water to attract the fishes attention. The useage here is along the lines of throwing a baited comment in to a topic and waiting for the usual suspects to bite.

In fact, by posting a topic entitled “Christian Intollerance” Farrar was trolling himself, as he would know the xtians would all crawl out from under the rocks to defend their “deeply held beliefs”. But as the blog owner, he can troll as much as he likes.

2. Also some of you put others quotes into your replies and make it stand out by the formatting, can you tell me how to do it or give me a link to an explanation.

Simple HTML codes.

3. I’d like to be able to make my inposts (sic) italicised like Billy did with mine too.
it looks so much cleaner and readable.
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December 20, 2009 1:31pm
side show bob

Does anyone know how the bullshit fest in Carbonhargen will effect us now. No limits set, no binding agreements, no inspection teams. I would hope the Nats will now throw the EFS out the fucking window but I doubt we will see anything as sensible as this. Can’t wait for the return of idiot boy, fresh from Carbonhargen, ready to save the world again, fuck I’m sick of these pricks. Was silly enough to watch the lefties on the BBC crying crocodile tears, what a bunch of wankers. They really need to get a life. Perhaps if some of these bastards got off their arses and sorted the problems in their own countries they wouldn’t need climate change as excuse to hide their own inability’s.
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December 20, 2009 1:36pm
Redbaiter

“1. Can someone please explain trolling for me?”

Glad to, as I’m so frequently accused of this offence during the infrequent times I might comment on left wing blogs.

Trolling means posting a comment designed more to provoke a response rather than to make a valid point.

As in trolling for fish ( a bite).

As most leftists are too dull narrow and uninformed to grasp any point that might exist outside of their own political paradigm, then they are by nature more inclined to make this allegation than those with the intelligence to encompass a wider political perspective.

The Standard uses it as an excuse to ban anyone who might raise a question that they have no answer for. The so called “Libertarian ” blog ‘Not PC’, where doctrine reigns supreme, uses it (IMHO) in the most dishonest cowardly and frequent manner of any blog.

In the case above, the allegation was in my opinion quite justified. Borker is a boring fuckwit who obsessively seeks to convert every discussion into an argument about the existence of god. The comment he made was designed to make this thread a duplicate of every other damn thread he has had success on by provoking believers into the usual impassioned response.

I dunno why they continue to fall for it when its is most obviously the unintelligent Borker’s narcissism that drives him to seek attention and not any sincere conviction about any issue. Without any biters he would soon tire of his trolling and go somewhere else to get noticed.
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December 20, 2009 1:36pm
reid

Mike, just right-click on the text and go view page source and then see how it’s been marked up. You can use b = bold, i = italic or blockquote and you just mark up the text with tags before and after the text. You have to put the mark up into left-arrow and right-arrow brackets
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December 20, 2009 1:38pm
malcolm

Mike, see these examples.

Quotes: http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_blockquote.asp

Bold, Italics etc: http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_font_style.asp

It’s just a matter of surrounding your text with the appropriate tags (tag = special word such as ‘blockquote’ inside symbols). You can also nest tags to give bold italics, for example.
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December 20, 2009 1:43pm
malcolm

I’m not sure there is such a thing as trolling (although that sentence may in fact be considered trolling by some).

There is of course rudeness and abuse. But those are pretty obvious to spot.
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December 20, 2009 1:47pm
Pete George

Have you heard of Mairina Dunn? No? Nathan Fenton, perhaps? I’ll bet you’ve heard of Sophie Elliott and Clayton Weatherston.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10616563&pnum=0

Fenton when searched with Kiwiblog gets no hits, neither does Dunn. Not surprisingly if you search Sophie Elliot and Clayton Weatherston they come up with thousands of hits.

This story is just as dreadful as that of the Elliott family. But who, aside from her whanau, really cares about a little Maori girl who shacked up briefly with a gang member?

I’m surprised, I’d never heard of this case. Disregarding the differing backgrounds of those involved it seems as bad as the Elliot case.

[DPF: It is awful big the reasons why it had less publicity are simple. The first is he pleaded guilty – he did not claim provocation. The second is that he was a gang member. People expect gang members will often kill their partner in a drunken rage. People do not expect university economics tutors to murder their exes in cold blood.

So it is nothing to do with the victim being Maori. If Sophie had been living with a gang member, and he killed her, and he pleaded guilty, then I doubt many would know her case either.]

[DPF: And further, having just checked, the killer had a long history of violence against partners, and had been previously jailed for assaults on women. So it was predictable, and no surprise. While tragic for the family, it was no more surprising than if you play in traffic, you get hit by a car – the odds are against you]
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December 20, 2009 1:58pm
Viking2

Talking of trolling, haven’t seen Philu in a while.
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December 20, 2009 2:06pm
reid

Well Pete with respect perhaps you don’t follow the media closely enough. It was reported at the time, I recall reading about it then.

Yes, it didn’t arouse the same level of discussion that Elliot did, but then again, neither do lots of deserving issues of all kinds get aired sufficiently to break through the celebrity pap that fills most people’s undiscerning and limited attention spans when they turn their eye toward “the news.”
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December 20, 2009 2:12pm
Inventory2

Viking2 said “Talking of trolling, haven’t seen Philu in a while.”

I haven’t seen Phil U since I installed RIP Viking 🙂

And as for billyborker, don’t you just love the way he comes in here, starts a flame-war, then moans when someone calls him for it? Ah well, he’s only a few demerits away from a two-month holiday, so “bring it on” I say!
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December 20, 2009 4:17pm
Rex Widerstrom

And here I was thinking trolls were misshapen things that hid in dark recesses and occasionally emerged to try and make people run away 😀

On another topic altogether, are others using IE getting a message bar that says “An add-on for this website failed to run”?

It’s just started appearing at the top of the page (underneath the tabs) when I visit. I’m using IE 8 on Windows 7.

I’m not sure what DPF porn would look like, but I’m quite certain I don’t want to find out.
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December 20, 2009 4:19pm
billyborker

IV2, haven’t you got retards to look after?
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December 20, 2009 4:22pm
big bruv

Those of us who voted for tax cuts and for an end to being financially raped by the government will not be pleased to learn that Neville Key plans to cut our Holiday pay as well.

While being able to sell one weeks holiday back to your employer is a great idea the change in holiday pay calculation is just wrong.

Seems Neville has to keep his big business buddies happy.
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December 20, 2009 4:48pm
Pete George

BB, the holiday pay calculation is a confusing mess. On top of that there are situations where it can result in calculations totally out of whack with reality. In theory the 2004 change made sense, in practice it can be unworkable, and it can result on odd calculations. I know companies who break the law so they can use a practical means of calculating.

One simple example – an employee who has no standard pay and works variable hours can be paid more for their holidays at busy times when they are most needed, if they have to take them at quieter times they will be paid less.
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December 20, 2009 5:03pm
big bruv

Pete George

The holiday pay calculations work fine for 99% of wage and salary earners, it is disingenuous to say they are a mess.

Those who will be hurt the most are the ones who have a high percentage of their income derived from commission, if you do not pay them holiday based on their average then they will not be able to take any leave at all.

I have always worked or employed people based on retainer plus commission, sales people are no bloody good to me if they are burnt out and no bloody good to me if they cannot afford to take annual leave because Neville Key’s big business buddies do not like paying what people have earned.

Now before some of the more dense members of this forum start accusing me of being a socialist they should really consider what I am asking for, commission sales people are the ones who live what so many others only talk about, they live and work in the ‘market’ on a daily basis, everything they are paid they earn, these are the people that we need in our society and our economy, they should be paid well enough to enable them to take leave and recharge their batteries, unlike so many in our workforce these people are entitled to it and have bloody well earned it.
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December 20, 2009 5:11pm
malcolm

Talking of trolling, haven’t seen Philu in a while.

He got a two week suspension last week sometime. I forget when exactly.
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December 20, 2009 5:13pm
Pete George

The holiday pay calculations work fine for 99% of wage and salary earners, it is disingenuous to say they are a mess.

I don’t know where you get that % from but it is way off the mark in my experience.

In general I think the 12 month average is a good way to calculate, but it isn’t always used. For employees with a standard pay it is the greater of that or the 12 month average. But for those without a standard pay the current rate is the greater of a 12 month average and a 4 week average. That causes a lot of problems. Ask anyone who manages payrolls in the health or hospitality sectors,or any sector with variable work patterns.

Commissions can also be problematic – eg if an annual commission is paid say 53 weeks which can easily happen apart you can have one 12 month period with no commission and another with two commissions. When you take your holidays can make a big difference to the rate.
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December 20, 2009 5:20pm
Hurf Durf

Hillary Clinton’s going to pay an official visit next month. I do hope the AUSA cretins are going to have another protest, in the interests of fairness, naturally.

Also, does anyone know where I could get ahold of a Hi8 camcorder, secondhand or otherwise, in the Auckland area?
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December 20, 2009 6:09pm
Fletch

I saw on One News tonight the story about how some smaller nations are upset about the deal that has come out of Copenhagen. So who does One News go to for comment in this country?

Hippies.

That’s right, hippies – live-on-the-commune, dredlocked, solar-pannelled, wind-turbined hippies.
What did they think they were going to say?

Interesting how the other side (those who don’t believe in human-caused climate change) never get to speak their piece in these kinds of stories; in fact, we never saw their point of view at any time in the MSM during the two weeks the Copenhagen talks were on (there was a smaller conference of ‘deniers’ happening just down the road).

And then one of the Copenhagen delegates makes a comparison with people who have been burned in ovens (he’s talking about the Jews in WWII) in regards to those who aren’t doing enough in his eyes.

Pathetic.
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December 20, 2009 6:14pm
nickb

“IV2, haven’t you got retards to look after? ”

What a slimeball you are borker
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December 20, 2009 6:24pm
Ryan Sproull

That’s right, hippies – live-on-the-commune, dredlocked, solar-pannelled, wind-turbined hippies.

Hard-working, non-conformist, high-technology-using hippies?

Sorry, translating out of habit.
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December 20, 2009 6:27pm
OTGO

Back to the holiday pay thing – I have never understood the concept of paying people NOT to come to work. 4 weeks plus stats, add in sick days and that is almost 2 months of non-productivity per employee that is being paid for.
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December 20, 2009 6:33pm
reid

“Hard-working, non-conformist, high-technology-using hippies?”

Ryan, they’re only high-tech hippies if they build giant laser cannons that both take down ICBMs and as a side effect remove the AGW-forming CO2 from the atmosphere. Don’t you know anything?

I mean, really.
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December 20, 2009 6:38pm
billyborker

nickb (823) Says:

December 20th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
“IV2, haven’t you got retards to look after? ”

What a slimeball you are borker

Haven’t you got some Susan Boyle to listen to?

A retard by any other name would still be a retard.
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December 20, 2009 6:40pm
reid

How’re those demerits going, billy?

Ever wonder why you attract them so?
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December 20, 2009 6:47pm
nickb

Typical case of the person who, for some reason, feels a need to insult people over the internet when:

1. The person targeted by it is not affected at all, as they know better to get upset by a lowlife scumbag’s taunts; and

2. They would never have the guts to say it to that person face to face.

What a sad case you are. I do pity you
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December 20, 2009 6:58pm
krazykiwi (formerly getstaffed)

DPF – broker’s abusive trolling must earn him a gift-wrapped set of demerits… surely?
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December 20, 2009 7:05pm
Grant Michael McKenna

People speak of ‘organised religion’, but what is ‘disorganised religion’- or should that be ‘unorganised religion’? What is the opposite of ‘organised religion’?
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December 20, 2009 7:22pm
billyborker

Salisbury Steak recipe

Ingredients
•2 pounds ground chuck
•1 can golden mushroom soup -or- 1 can beefy mushroom soup
•1 can cream of mushroom soup
•2 tablespoons Worcestershire sauce
•1/2 cup dry bread or cracker crumbs or 1/2 cup oats, blended into flour
•1/2 teaspoon salt \I use sea salt, and italian herbs, yeah yeah and the pepper now….
•1/4 teaspoon pepper/
•2 eggs
•1 lg. onion, diced fine, save a coup of tablespoons of this to add to the gravy if you like
•=====
•Gravy
•~
•2 cups water
•4 teaspoons beef boullion
•1 can mushroom stem and pieces, drained, I use this juice as part of the water
•Bring to a boil
•2 tbsp. cold water\Mix well
•2 tsp. cornstarch /
•Add to boiling beef broth and stir until thickened, aboout 3 minutes.

Directions
1.Heat oven to 350 degrees.
2.Combine 1/3 of the soup with remaining ingredients except water; mix well.
3.Shape into 8 patties; arrange in single layer in 12×8 baking dish.
4.Bake uncovered for 30 minutes.
5.Skim off fat.
6.If you bake them on those little wire racks you can just pour the grease off and have a better tasting patty.
7.Make gravy; spoon over patties.
8.Bake another 10 minutes.
9.If desired, garnish with fresh mushrooms.

——————————————————-

There you go, something nice and bland so you little petals don’t get upset.
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December 20, 2009 7:29pm
Steve

borkbork
You seem to be getting the same treatment Phool did.
Ever wonder why?
And yep that is trolling from me
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December 20, 2009 8:12pm
reid

“something nice and bland so you little petals don’t get upset”

Nothing you have said has ever upset me personally billy. However I’ve observed that sometimes your comments are unnecessarily nasty, and in an adult forum, where most things are tolerated in order to facilitate robust and free debate, what’s the point of pushing it to that extent, amongst adults who can read between the lines and can interpret what you’re really saying?

You’re one of the very few who push it to the extent you get consistent demerits, most of us never get them. If you genuinely feel persecuted then perhaps you might look to those of us who don’t, as role models.
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December 20, 2009 8:37pm
MikeNZ

Billy this is not on.

# billyborker (1011) Says:
December 20th, 2009 at 6:40 pm

nickb (823) Says:

December 20th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
“IV2, haven’t you got retards to look after? ”

What a slimeball you are borker

Haven’t you got some Susan Boyle to listen to?

A retard by any other name would still be a retard.

Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 12

DPF if you won’t stop this then we must accept you are condoning it.
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December 20, 2009 9:13pm
dime

borker needs to go.
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December 20, 2009 10:47pm
hj

Redbaiter says:

” In these ways, Connolley turned Wikipedia into the missionary wing of the global warming movement.”

what ur saying is he cut out the crap. The issues edited just mirror the current scientific concensus as heralded by Nature, new Scientist, Scientific American etc. I’ll run with them rather than your man from the (prestigious 😉 ) Financial Post.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7273/full/462545a.html
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=seven-answers-to-climate-contrarian-nonsense&sc=SA_20091216
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December 20, 2009 10:53pm
Gooner

He cut out the crap just like Mann, NIWA and that other guy from East Anglia University.
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December 20, 2009 11:04pm
Rufus

Sigh…

Billy Borker. I don’t like to use RIP too much, but you don’t have anything worthwhile to add to any discussion it seems, so reading your “contributions are simply a waste of my time a la Phil U.

RIP Billy.

I’m being genuine here Billy – I’ll start praying for you on a regular basis – if there’s anyone who needs to get to know God, it’s you. I’d like to ask all my other Christian brothers and sisters here to do likewise.

Peace,

Rufus
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December 20, 2009 11:17pm
Luc Hansen

Gooner

You forgot NASA

You know, the people who put men on the moon

Very precisely

And they have satellites that orbit the earth

But WTF would they know about climate change, right?
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December 20, 2009 11:23pm
Hurf Durf

hj’s happy because his shares in the carbon trading industry were saved by Copenhagen, even if the conference was mostly a farce.
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December 20, 2009 11:28pm
Gooner

Was NASA around 40 million years ago when it was hotter than it is now and there were no farting cows, coal stations or humans expelling CO2?
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December 20, 2009 11:30pm
hj

40 Million years ago nothing existed*

*Wishart et al.
http://www.investigatemagazine.com/newshop/contents/en-us/d18.html
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December 20, 2009 11:55pm
hj

Sceptical climate researcher won’t divulge key program 😯

A physicist whose work is often highlighted by climate-change sceptics* is refusing to provide the software he used to other climate researchers attempting to replicate his results.

Nicola Scafetta, a physicist at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina, has published a series of papers over the past few years that suggest the sun played a much bigger role in warming over the 20th century than is generally accepted. In particular, one 2006 paper he co-authored concluded that: “The sun might have contributed approximately 50 per cent of the observed global warming since 1900” (Geophysical Research Letters, DOI: 10.1029/2006GL027142).

This paper has been widely cited by those seeking to cast doubt on the scientific consensus on the cause of climate change, including US senator James Inhofe. Scafetta has also contributed to a book that claimed that “carbon dioxide probably is not the driving factor behind climate change”.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18307-sceptical-climate-researcher-wont-divulge-key-program.html

* Air Con> Ian Wishart.
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December 21, 2009 12:27am
Pete George

Blowtorch returned? The quality of the Wegman report always was a bit dubious, but this raises questions about unattributed sources – or it uncovers at best some shoddy editing in Donald Rapp’s textbook.

…new information about the provenance of Wegman et al’s section on tree ring proxies, as well as more background detail on some of the events leading up to the Wegman report. There are also more details about large swathes of unattributed material found in the Wegman report and in Donald Rapp’s book Assessing Climate Change.

It is clear that the circumstances and contents of both the Wegman report and Rapp’s text book deserve closer scrutiny.

http://deepclimate.org/2009/12/17/wegman-report-ghostwriter-revealed/#more-1273

The empire fighting back?
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December 21, 2009 7:23am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Joe didn’t make it.

RATM kicked ass.
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December 21, 2009 7:51am
Inventory2

billyborker said “IV2, haven’t you got retards to look after? ”

No billy, I’m not your mother – for which I thank God profusely!
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December 21, 2009 8:22am
Owen McShane

Another Giant with feet of clay.

In case you haven’t seen this. Dynamite!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6847227/Questions-over-business-deals-of-UN-climate-change-guru-Dr-Rajendra-Pachauri.html
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December 21, 2009 8:47am
MikeNZ

Owen I read that here too and do wonder at the convergence with Al Gore and others who are driving this.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/12/ipcc_chief_benefits_financiall.html

HJ and Pete
I sincerely hope that the allusions aren’t true.

more on climategate the Christmas present that keeps giving and giving.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/a_climatology_conspiracy.html

and for a synopsis
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/global_warming_and_the_settled.html
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December 21, 2009 9:04am
Rick Rowling

Radio NZ National and TVNZ are going to pronounce it Funganui, in the interests of national consistency.

We ought to be thoroughly consistent with wh and gh sounds though, enough is enough, even in the Whanganui borough, and though it be fraught with tough choices, we need to be straight and consistent with our consonant and vowel sounds, and not hiccough.
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December 21, 2009 9:11am
tom hunter

Man, this appeal-to-authority stuff from Luc Hansen is becoming truly desperate. He’s pulled the following out on several occasions now:

You forgot NASA
You know, the people who put men on the moon
Very precisely

Given his other ideological rantings I’d be willing to bet that at the time of those landings Luc was busy with his Vietnam War protest comrades bitching about why all that money was being used to put a bunch of white, small-town squares on the moon in a wasteful and boorishly patriotic, Cold War game of imperialistic one-upmanship, while black kids go without,……yada, yada, yada.

Now, NASA are his heroes.

In any case, much as I loved that effort the fact is that all the people who did it retired or left a looonnnnnng time ago.

Since then NASA has managed to build a very flawed machine that’s lost two out of five ships, killed 14 astronauts and sent about 120 flights no further than Low Earth Orbit for more money per year than Apollo spent annually to go to the moon. Quite a few of those flights have been to build a $100 billion ‘Jobs Programme’ space station that nobody knows what to do with it and that may be splashed in the ocean by 2016, a mere 6 years after construction is completed. They’re creating a replacement for the Shuttle right now, and have been since 2003: it’s several years behind schedule and may be scrapped.
You’ll also find that the successful space stuff is with unmanned probes, run largely by JPL and others, who are constantly pissed off with NASA for cutting their budgets to spend more on the manned FUBAR.

In short – not that competent an outfit nowadays!

But I guess Luc is really referring to Hansen:
– the man ‘gagged’ by the Bush administration – to the extent that he only gave some 1400 interviews over the last few years;

– the man of whom it was said by his former supervisor, recently retired senior NASA atmospheric scientist, Dr. John S. Theon:

“Hansen was never muzzled even though he violated NASA’s official agency position on climate forecasting (i.e., we did not know enough to forecast climate change or mankind’s effect on it). Hansen thus embarrassed NASA by coming out with his claims of global warming in 1988 in his testimony before Congress,”

– the man largely responsible for the GISS temperature record, now being seized upon as the record de jour in the wake of the revelations about the CRUT problems. Still, even GISS has issues, as deniers have pointed out:

I think you can say that GISS is inferior to CRUTEM3.

Oh wait – that’s not a denier – that’s Phil Jones, late of CRU. Good thing he’s under investigation.

Very precise!
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December 21, 2009 9:53am
Fletch

It seems like more and more evidence is coming out (the wiki entries, Pachauri, the 1980 Jim Hessell paper in NZ etc) that is just beginning to show how deep the rabbit warren goes to the extent this global warming lie has been perpetuated. I guess they thought they could get away with it indefinitely. It’s all beginning to unravel like a cane chair that a cat sharpens it’s claws on everyday.

Just more for the MSM to ignore.
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December 21, 2009 10:04am
hj

Owen McShane (905) Says:

In case you haven’t seen this. Dynamite!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6847227/Questions-over-business-deals-of-UN-climate-change-guru-Dr-Rajendra-Pachauri.html

Or “we might be able to make a bang! out of this” 🙄

Tag: global warming conspiracy, potential conflict of interest.
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December 21, 2009 11:00am
hj

Speaking of conflict of interest this will/ would be dynamite:

[Popular Science]

In an attempt to head off new emissions standards, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is threatening to sue the Environmental Protection Agency. The Chamber is calling it the Scopes Monkey Trial of the 21st Century, and wants to put the evidence supporting global warming on trial in a court of law.

Naturally, the EPA said any lawsuit would be “frivolous,” and that any trial would be a waste of time. So far, they have no intention of voluntarily submitting to any hearings.

This is obvious grandstanding by the Chamber, and a poor analogy at that. The Scopes Monkey Trial, the courtroom drama where a teacher was eventually fined for teaching evolution, has become the hallmark case of backwards, anti-science law eventually falling to reason in the long run. Considering all the evidence that supports a link between carbon emissions and global warming, the Chamber should have called it “the OJ Simpson Trial of Global Warming.”

http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-08/us-chamber-commerce-threatens-sue-epa-over-global-warming
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December 21, 2009 11:07am
Fletch

hj,
I hope they do sue. It would be very interesting to watch.
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December 21, 2009 11:29am

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