General Debate 18 December 2009

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pdm

First up from the snow of London – so much for global warming.
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December 18, 2009 8:02am
Captain Crab

I see the St Matthews Billboard has been paint bombed. How tolerant, how violent, how “christian” of them.
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December 18, 2009 8:06am
jaba

if Maurice WHilliamson puts the H in, there will be trouble .. dual naming I can live with if I must. (if it goes in then Chester will soon be a list MP).
I will be away from any PC until this evening so won’t be able to vent my spleen or rejoice
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December 18, 2009 8:13am
Manolo

To Socialists (Labour and National Party supporters) Acquaintances:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the summer solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.

I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2010, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make New Zealand great. Not to imply that New Zealand is necessarily greater than any other country.

Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the recipient of the wish.

To My Friends:
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
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December 18, 2009 8:17am
fredinthegrass

Chthoniid – where are you.
I need a coffee.
And on Friday it is always after your post
no picture – no coffee!
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December 18, 2009 8:21am
wreck1080

I read in todays news the waikato dhb has been hit by the conficker worm.

I believe microsoft issued a patch / removal tool for this about one year ago.

So, why has the waikato dhb been affected? Do they not apply any security patches? Surely that is safe computing 101….

Maybe they like fixes to settle in before applying them? I’m afraid in todays 0-day attack world this is not a luxury they can afford.
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December 18, 2009 8:23am
reid

“How tolerant, how violent, how “christian” of them.”

When you see an apostasy, you take action, Captain.

Recall Jesus overthrowing the money-changer’s tables in the temple?

Note that no-one was assaulted in either incident.
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December 18, 2009 8:29am
Murray

Manolo I prefer Merry Christmas, if anyone has a problem with that its their problem and the planes go both ways.
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December 18, 2009 8:32am
krazykiwi (formerly getstaffed)

Chthoniid – where are you. I need a coffee. And on Friday it is always after your post. no picture – no coffee!

Hey DPF, how about giving Chthoniid posting privileges for Christmas… so that he can have a guest spot each Friday. Waddya say?

[DPF: Sounds good to me, if he wants them.]
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December 18, 2009 8:33am
Pete George

The money changers have long ago overthrown JC.
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December 18, 2009 8:34am
krazykiwi (formerly getstaffed)

A man in Scotland calls his son in London the day before Christmas Eve and says, “I hate to ruin your day but I have to tell you that your mother and I are divorcing; forty-five years of misery is enough.”

‘Dad, what are you talking about?’ the son screams.

“We can’t stand the sight of each other any longer” the father says. “We’re sick of each other and I’m sick of talking about this, so you call your sister in Leeds and tell her.”

Franticly, the son calls his sister, who explodes on the phone. “Like hell they’re getting divorced!” she shouts, “I’ll take care of this!”

She calls Scotland immediately, and screams at her father “You are NOT getting divorced. Don’t do a single thing until I get there. I’m calling my brother back, and we’ll both be there tomorrow. Until then, don’t do a thing, DO YOU HEAR ME?” and hangs up.

The old man hangs up his phone and turns to his wife. ‘Sorted! They’re coming for Christmas – and they’re paying their own way.’
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December 18, 2009 8:35am
Tassman

Christians believe in one God. The belief in God is a statement of faith brought into being by the practice of pure principles of that belief. The word became flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Son of God was made man. But relative belief is subjected to the feelings of oneself and thus modifying the principle to include his/her own opinion. And that is no longer the principle of belief in God, but rather sadly the belief in one’s own opinion of God. It is not a Christian value…

The DNA has suggested that we have all descended from the same source like Adam. My father is traced to his father and the father of his father all the way back to Adam. Doesn’t that make one the son of the son….. of Adam? Think about it….
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December 18, 2009 8:42am
Pete George

That could be Tassman, but obviously unprovable, no known DNA of “Adam” has been found.

It is also not possible to prove that Adam didn’t descend from an ape-like creature.
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December 18, 2009 8:57am
Chthoniid

Aah, sorry fredinthegrass

Today’s TGIF photo is a whistling kite
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v6/p25965895-5.jpg

These birds are superb acrobats and a delight to watch.
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December 18, 2009 8:58am
dime

ah cool. another anti-religion thread. usually run by those who preach climate change.
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December 18, 2009 8:58am
Redbaiter

National and John Key once again currying favour with the Racist Party and selling the NZ taxpayer down the drain. You reckon our current welfare system is a shambles, wait to the Turiana and the Bros start running their own.

” Official documents obtained exclusively by 3 News show the Government is close to a decision that would see millions of dollars set aside to fund a separate Maori welfare system. The taxpayer millions would be handed over to private Maori agencies that will be tasked with delivering social services to Maori families. It is a bold and controversial extension of a current aid programme called Whanau Ora and a cause the Maori Party has been championing. ”

http://www.3news.co.nz/Govt-considering-separate-welfare-programme-for-Maori-/tabid/419/articleID/134577/Default.aspx
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December 18, 2009 8:59am
lukas

why on earth is there a Forest and Bird advertisement running on this site?
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December 18, 2009 8:59am
Tassman

I made a statement of faith, you are welcome to provide evidence to the cotrary, that’s your predicament. My belief remains a practice of principles with proven outcomes also supported by billions around the world.
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December 18, 2009 9:02am
reid

“The money changers have long ago overthrown JC”

Which just underlines your ignorance as to how Christianity works, Pete.

This is Satan’s world, right here, right now. He’s here, doing what he does best, slandering and deceiving. He’s very good at what he does. Billions of people have been sucked into his lies. Proverbs 1:29-33 explains it well.

“For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.”
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December 18, 2009 9:09am
Pete George

Tassman, you made a statement of faith but tried to justify it by suggesting there could be a scientific corroboration when that is impossible. I wouldn’t say you can’t have your faith, but it’s disingenuous to try and link it to science.

In principal I don’t see a problem with that Red. It could mean a Maori solution to a Maori problem. A lot of people say they should be addressing their own social issues. They seem to agree with that and are trying to do it.
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December 18, 2009 9:09am
dime

redbaiter – i dont know whether to laugh.. or leave the country. fuckin hell.
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December 18, 2009 9:09am
Murray

I follishly thought we had religious freedom in this country but apprently its burn a Christian season.
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December 18, 2009 9:18am
Tassman

Pete George,
you made a counter argument of my ‘statement of faith’.. There is scientific proof of practice in experience and cognitive behaviour.

It’s the same old kraps over and over… ‘no known DNA to prove it wasn’t Adam….’ point being????

And it’s not up to me to prove or disprove your assumptions. You have to state the facts to the contrary.
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December 18, 2009 9:21am
unaha-closp

…or leave the country. fuckin hell.

Don’t go to England, all week I read about the guy who caught some men who breaking into his home, tying up his family and putting knives to their throats. He came at them with a cricket bat, chased them off and smashed one of their heads in. Net result: cricket bat guy goes to prison for 39 months, but the guy who had tied the family up and threatened to kill them gets no prison time.

I can’t understand the Poms.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/14/jail-brothers-burglar-cricket-bat
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December 18, 2009 9:24am
Angus

Here’s a link to the Treasury and a pdf of the half year economic & fiscal update.
Table 4.2 on page 120 makes for interesting reading.

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/forecasts/hyefu2009
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December 18, 2009 9:25am
big bruv

Red

As much as the idea of separate a welfare system for Maori goes against everything I believe in I am prepared to give this a go.
If it means that one less Maori kid is killed then it must be a good thing, if it means that Maori kids are going to be fed instead of their drop kick parents wasting the money on booze and drugs then it must be a good thing, sure as hell nothing else has worked.

This is not to say that I agree with the evil that is Whanau Ora, that whole concept is racist and goes against the best interest of the kids.
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December 18, 2009 9:25am
Pete George

Haha Tassman. It was you making the original assumption. The facts are:
– you stated that “The DNA has suggested that we have all descended from the same source like Adam. ”
– you have absolutely no facts to support that assumption (and DNA has not suggested anything like that).

Murray, some Christians burn themselves with their own statements of fiction. Most Christians just go on living their lives as they see fit and couldn’t care less about trying to think up proof to things that cannot be proven.
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December 18, 2009 9:29am
Tassman

Pete George

The supporting para is an analgoy as the Bible (quotes) stated proverbs and metaphysical assertion of events. It is not a direct fact report.

The DNA does not trace a genealogy by name or by title (Adam or Ape), but the protein is associated with the behaviour of people in time.

The practice of a belief can be found in genetic mutations as recently with the behaviour of smokers.

Belief in principles over time is in the DNA as humans’ behaviour are determined by their thinking, where as animals by instinct. If you haven’t made sense of it from here, then you obviously have no idea of what you have put yourself in…

cheers
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December 18, 2009 9:40am
Murray

Some socialists don’t realise they display all the charactersitics of relgious fanatics themselves.
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December 18, 2009 9:40am
Chthoniid

There are two problems with genetic studies that trace back to common human ancestors.

The first, is you can be certain that the media will misrepresent and sensationalise the study. Caveats will be omitted, probabilistic inference will get transformed into claims of certainty. IIRC, the study inferred that markers indicated a small male ‘pool’, possibly as small as one.

The second is methodological. Tracing one genetic marker back through time means you aren’t tracking other markers.
That means you are ignoring contributions from other sources. This is the sort of problem that afflicted the Eve study (as well as assuming African-Americans represented a pure “African” stock for the study). It’s a bit like trying to work out where people who holiday in Taupo come from, when you only watch SH1 heading north. You’d end up inferring that all the visitors to Taupo came from Auckland.
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December 18, 2009 9:43am
Redbaiter

“Here’s a link to the Treasury and a pdf of the half year economic & fiscal update.”

Thanks for the link Angus. Interesting reading indeed. See they expect in 2014 to take $63 billion out of the economy and spend $30 billion on welfare. What a destructive socialist farce. As if this is ever going to be sustainable.

Only brain damaged Progressives ever could subscribe to such a fantasy.
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December 18, 2009 9:44am
Redbaiter

” separate a welfare system for Maori goes against everything I believe in”

” the evil that is Whanau Ora”

” whole concept is racist and goes against the best interest of the kids. ”

..and then the killer-

” I am prepared to give this a go.”
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December 18, 2009 9:48am
Murray

I believe its called apartheid Red. But do not be alarmed, its only evil when white mofos do it.
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December 18, 2009 9:50am
dime

red – did you go to the michael moore school of editing? lol
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December 18, 2009 9:52am
Pete George

Surely not, Redbaiter has been strongly against using edited quotes.
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December 18, 2009 9:57am
Redbaiter

” This is absolutely the worst administration in our lifetime. They’re in a tailspin. I don’t know how this guy (Obama) is going to finish his term. I really don’t know. ”

Hank Williams Jr.

An entertainer with a brain.
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December 18, 2009 9:57am
bearhunter

Chthoniid: Superb picture. As it happens I am listening to a recording a tune called the Lark in the Clear Air just now and – while the bird is obviously not a lark – it’s serendipitous enough for me to celebrate with another coffee. Cheers.
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December 18, 2009 10:08am
gazzmaniac

Regarding Maori welfare –
Reading the article, it seems that part of the welfare system will be contracted away from WINZ. This can only be a good thing, and I will watch with interest what the result is. The unfortunate thing is that it is targeting a single race, when perhaps it could target some people in a geographical area instead. If it works, then this model could be the model adopted for wholesale reform of the welfare state.
Clearly the current system isn’t working – people from all sides of politics agree with that. Sadly, the solution from the left is to throw more money at a system that doesn’t work. At least the current idea seems to be taking a fresh approach, and I feel it has merit.
I still advocate being able to opt-out of the welfare state if you are of sufficient means or have appropriate insurance, as the dole should be viewed as an insurance against unemployment that we are forced to pay for through taxation. Albeit a very expensive insurance that makes people jump through hoops, and has miserable payouts if you are able to claim.
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December 18, 2009 10:09am
hj

Seven Answers to Climate Contrarian Nonsense [Scientific American]

“Within the community of scientists and others concerned about anthropogenic climate change, those whom Inhofe calls skeptics are more commonly termed contrarians, naysayers and denialists. Not everyone who questions climate change science fits that description, of course—some people are genuinely unaware of the facts or honestly disagree about their interpretation. What distinguishes the true naysayers is an unwavering dedication to denying the need for action on the problem, often with weak and long-disproved arguments about supposed weaknesses in the science behind global warming.

What follows is only a partial list of the contrarians’ bad arguments and some brief rebuttals of them.”

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=seven-answers-to-climate-contrarian-nonsense&sc=SA_20091216
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December 18, 2009 10:21am
RightNow

More evidence of Hadley CRU tampering with the data to achieve the results they desire;
http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2009/12/16/2744/

“On Tuesday, the Moscow-based Institute of Economic Analysis (IEA) issued a report claiming that the Hadley Center for Climate Change based at the headquarters of the British Meteorological Office in Exeter (Devon, England) had probably tampered with Russian-climate data.”

Climategate is bigger than just a few scientists using scientist speak to talk between themselves. These guys had a conclusion they wanted to support and screwed the scientific method to get it. They should be on trial for fraud.

The more this comes out the less inclined I am to give the benefit of the doubt to the alarmists. The earth SHOULD be warmer, and AGW is a FRAUD
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December 18, 2009 10:24am
Chthoniid

Chthoniid – where are you. I need a coffee. And on Friday it is always after your post. no picture – no coffee!

Hey DPF, how about giving Chthoniid posting privileges for Christmas… so that he can have a guest spot each Friday. Waddya say?

[DPF: Sounds good to me, if he wants them.]

Works for me, it would make for a cool Xmas pressie 😉

[DPF: Done!]
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December 18, 2009 10:25am
Komata

One question regarding the ‘Maori Welfare’ -scheme:

Is anyone going to watch closely to see where the money actually goes, since sadly Maori and money do not have a good relationship and accountability is not their racial strongpoint!

Casual observation of the way Maori have used Government funding over the years strongly suggests that when Maori asre asked to account for the destination of large (Government) sums, the answer is ‘ Dunno Bro – ask . . . ‘ (fill in the reli’ as appropriate) and eventually everyone gives up in frustration (Donna Awatere is a classic example that comes to mind).

And also, (very sadly), when the questions about funding-destinations do eventually become too close and inquisitive the ‘race’ card tends to be pulled out, at which point the enquirer (invariably European – we tend to be very good at accounting and accountability) quickly backs off, leaving Maori in charge of the situation and proud of the fact that, once again, he’s stuck-it to Whitey’. And as for where the money actually eventually went? Well, there are LOTS of cuzzy’s and the bro’s, and you no how it is. . .

Oh, and of course, as this is a new and improved ‘gravy train’ the new and improved requests for lots and lots of money will of course follow, and ‘poverty’ and (Maori) racial ‘inequality’ will always be the reason (its worked before, so why not again. . . – precedents and all that.)

Should we be surprised when it does. . .

If the same farce doesn’t happen over this new scheme, I for one will be very surprised, but only time will tell, so while I’m hoping I’m wrong, I’m not holding my breath.
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December 18, 2009 10:37am
hj

Climatologists under pressure [Nature]

Stolen e-mails have revealed no scientific conspiracy, but do highlight ways in which climate researchers could be better supported in the face of public scrutiny.

The e-mail archives stolen last month from the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia (UEA), UK, have been greeted by the climate-change-denialist fringe as a propaganda windfall (see page 551). To these denialists, the scientists’ scathing remarks about certain controversial palaeoclimate reconstructions qualify as the proverbial ‘smoking gun’: proof that mainstream climate researchers have systematically conspired to suppress evidence contradicting their doctrine that humans are warming the globe.

This paranoid interpretation would be laughable were it not for the fact that obstructionist politicians in the US Senate will probably use it next year as an excuse to stiffen their opposition to the country’s much needed climate bill. Nothing in the e-mails undermines the scientific case that global warming is real — or that human activities are almost certainly the cause. That case is supported by multiple, robust lines of evidence, including several that are completely independent of the climate reconstructions debated in the e-mails.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7273/full/462545a.html
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December 18, 2009 10:38am
MikeNZ

well done Chthonlid.
Your pictures are a delight and a balm to the soul 🙂
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December 18, 2009 10:41am
hj

The Cheapest Way To Curb Carbon Dioxide: Contraception [Popular Science]
http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-09/contraception-cheapest-way-curb-carbon-dioxide

U.S. Chamber of Commerce Seeks To Sue EPA Over Global Warming [Popular Science]
http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-08/us-chamber-commerce-threatens-sue-epa-over-global-warming
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December 18, 2009 10:43am
RightNow

It is increasingly apparent that the tree ring proxies used as the basis for the assertion of ‘unprecedented warming’ are not reliable proxies at all. http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/Scientific/Arctic-Yamal3.htm

Even with thermometer records that are incomplete and suffering other problems, the “robust” conclusion is –
“Warmist” treering proxy temperature evidence is falsified directly by local thermometer records.
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December 18, 2009 10:50am
hj

U.S. Chamber of Commerce seeks trial on global warming [L A TIMES]
The business lobby hopes to ward off potentially sweeping emission limits by undercutting the scientific consensus that climate change is man-made. The EPA is having none of it.

Chamber officials say it would be “the Scopes monkey trial of the 21st century” — complete with witnesses, cross-examinations and a judge who would rule, essentially, on whether humans are warming the planet to dangerous effect.

“It would be evolution versus creationism,” said William Kovacs, the chamber’s senior vice president for environment, technology and regulatory affairs. “It would be the science of climate change on trial.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/25/nation/na-climate-trial25
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December 18, 2009 10:54am
fredinthegrass

Thanks Chthoniid – an amazing bird beautifully ‘captured’ by yourself.
For the record the coffee was a double shot Supreme with lightly stretched
blue top milk

Great idea KrazyKiwi.
DPF says Yes – Chthoniid says Yes – Can’t wait!
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December 18, 2009 10:57am
sbk

“politicians in the US Senate will probably use it next year as an excuse to stiffen their opposition to”..number one reason why Copenhagen is a waste of time.
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December 18, 2009 11:00am
RightNow

The IEA believes that Russian meteorological-station data did not substantiate the anthropogenic global-warming theory.

Analysts say Russian meteorological stations cover most of the country’s territory, and that the Hadley Center had used data submitted by only 25% of such stations in its reports.

Over 40% of Russian territory was not included in global-temperature calculations for some other reasons, rather than the lack of meteorological stations and observations.

The data of stations located in areas not listed in the Hadley Climate Research Unit Temperature UK (HadCRUT) survey often does not show any substantial warming in the late 20th century and the early 21st century.
http://en.rian.ru/papers/20091216/157260660.html
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December 18, 2009 11:01am
Fletch

Is anyone going to watch closely to see where the money actually goes, since sadly Maori and money do not have a good relationship and accountability is not their racial strongpoint!

Komata, well said!

A guy at my last job used to say that the Maori aren’t any good with money; it is not part of their culture.
I considered that it might not be a good thing to say out loud because it sounds racist, but it is essentially true the more I look at it.
The Govt will end up having to bail them out, I am sure.
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December 18, 2009 11:13am
Fletch

Re: DNA posts. I just did a post about a site I visited where a computer programmer insists that DNA code is a proof of design. He issued a challenge on the atheist Infidels forum which no one has satisfactorily been able to punch a hole in.
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December 18, 2009 11:21am
krazykiwi (formerly getstaffed)

Monckton is assaulted by police, left unconscious.

However, without warning the UN had capriciously decided that all but 300 of them were to be excluded from the conference today, and all but 90 would be excluded on the final day.

Of course, this being the inept UN, no one had bothered to notify those of the NGOs that were not true-believers in the UN’s camp. So Senator Steve Fielding of Australia and I turned up with a few dozen other delegates, to be left standing in the cold for a couple of hours while the UN laboriously worked out what to do with us.

In the end, they decided to turn us away, which they did with an ill grace and in a bad-tempered manner. As soon as the decision was final, the Danish police moved in. One of them began the now familiar technique of manhandling me, in the same fashion as one of his colleagues had done the previous day.

Once again, conscious that a police helicopter with a high-resolution camera was hovering overhead, I thrust my hands into my pockets in accordance with the St. John Ambulance crowd-control training, looked my assailant in the eye and told him, quietly but firmly, to take his hands off me.

He complied, but then decided to have another go. I told him a second time, and he let go a second time. I turned to go and, after I had turned my back, he gave me a mighty shove that flung me to the ground and knocked me out.

I came to some time later (not sure exactly how long), to find my head being cradled by my friends, some of whom were doing their best to keep the police thugs at bay while the volunteer ambulance-men attended to me. The ambulance crew led me away and laid me down under a blanket for 20 minutes to get warm, plying me with water and keeping me amused with some colorfully colloquial English that they had learned.

I thanked them for their kindness, left them a donation for their splendid service, and rejoined my friends. A very senior police officer then came up and asked if I was all right. Yes, I said, but no thanks to one of his officers, who had pushed me hard from behind when my back was turned and had sent me flying.

The police chief said that none of his officers would have done such a thing. I said that several witnesses had seen the incident, which I intended to report. I said I had hoped to receive an apology but had not received one, and would include that in my report. The policeman went off looking glum, and with good reason.

To assault an accredited representative of a conference your nation is hosting, and to do it while your own police cameramen are filming from above, and to do it without any provocation except my polite, non-threatening request that I should not be manhandled, is not a career-enhancing move, as that police chief is about to discover to his cost.

I await howls of protest from the lefties here who are usually so fast to bring accusations at even the slightest suggestion of police brutality
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December 18, 2009 11:57am
Chthoniid

Seriously Fletch? Even when I was a Christian I wouldn’t have bought that argument.

First, it’s a retread of the old watchmaker story. If we see something with a pattern, we infer it has been designed, hence there is a designer. The problem is that patterns occur naturally anyway, so there is no proof there is a design. Natural selection provides a good alternative explanation.

Second, he’s made up a term called ‘information’ and imposed it on biochemistry. The concept doesn’t exist- it’s a human construct.

Third, if DNA was really designed, then it’s got a vast number of design faults. Vast chunks are wasted as ‘junk or non-coding’ DNA. It’s incredibly vulnerable to UV radiation and we live on a planet that is constantly bathed in the stuff. Third, the system of coding DNA into proteins is chemically, very cumbersome. You need RNA to act as an intermediary.

So basically, there’s a lot of wasted material in DNA, the peculiar vulnerability to UV radiation seems on reflection, a poor design feature and it doesn’t actually work unless you apply a system-patch into the process. Hmm, maybe DNA was designed by Microsoft…
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December 18, 2009 11:58am
transmogrifier

I think I need to go out and buy that Chris Knox tribute album. Legend.
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December 18, 2009 12:09pm
transmogrifier

Who would give negative karma to Chris Knox? Where’s my paint bomb?
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December 18, 2009 1:23pm
Michael M Wilson

I made Chris Knox the answer in my weekly quiz and none of the 8 teams got it!!!

The most awesome news item today has to be that the Salvation Army was renting and office to a company that was selling weapons to North Korea.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/3173526/NZ-firm-may-face-charges-of-terrorism
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December 18, 2009 1:39pm
RightNow

krazykiwi, you left out one of the best bit, when Monckton was talking to the President of the Czech Republic:

“he refused to come to Copenhagen, telling me that there was no point, now that the lunatics were firmly in control of the asylum.”
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December 18, 2009 1:39pm
RightNow

From the WTF files:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/3176327/World-will-warm-by-3-degrees-report

“A document leaked from the UN, says the world will warm by about three degrees this century if the greenhouse gas cuts proposed in Copenhagen are carried out ”

So even with proposed cuts to CO2 the world is still going to warm by 3 degrees, according to the UN.

Fortunately whatever the UN and the IPCC predict is the opposite of what really happens, as witnessed by the last decade of cooling (which they are so desperately trying to pretend hasn’t happened) which invalidates the IPCC predictions.
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December 18, 2009 1:45pm
reid

Al Bore just said at Copenhagen the Arctic could be ice-free in 5 years.

Mr Gore said new computer modelling suggests there is a 75 per cent chance of the entire polar ice cap melting during the summertime by 2014. However, he faced embarrassment last night after Dr Wieslav Maslowski, the climatologist whose work the prediction was based on, refuted his claims.

Dr Maslowski, of the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California, told The Times: “It’s unclear to me how this figure was arrived at. “I would never try to estimate likelihood at anything as exact as this.”

Yes, manbearpig is dying.
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December 18, 2009 2:07pm
hj

I just checked out thumbs up/thumbs down and I have concluded that a large majority of people do not agree that global warming is a problem. 😕
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December 18, 2009 2:10pm
reid

Google fun
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December 18, 2009 2:12pm
backster

Sensational film of continuing volcanic eruption 4000 ft below sea surface, nearest land Samoa, shown on Fox News. Perhaps some of HJ’s scientist should scurry off there and take the sea temperature add a few degrees and put it down to manmade global warming.
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December 18, 2009 2:21pm
Pete George

That’s right backster, as the ocean warms the deep sea pressure reduces thereby allowing the volcano to erupt, which in turn releases more heat into the sea, which…. oh, do you want to know about the earthquakes?
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December 18, 2009 2:31pm
big bruv

Just to change the subject….

Where is D4J these days?
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December 18, 2009 4:19pm
MyNameIsJack

Moved to Kia Marama, Rolleston, I hear.

[DPF: 30 demerits]
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December 18, 2009 4:22pm
Chthoniid

@bearhunter

Chthoniid: Superb picture. As it happens I am listening to a recording a tune called the Lark in the Clear Air just now and – while the bird is obviously not a lark – it’s serendipitous enough for me to celebrate with another coffee. Cheers.

Thanks for comment- interesting choice of music. (I’ve had 4 Colombian espressos, very tasty).

I’ve been playing some Elvis Costello through the walkman- “Pump It Up” always puts me in a good mood.
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December 18, 2009 4:25pm
Chthoniid

@MikeNZ

well done Chthonlid.
Your pictures are a delight and a balm to the soul

Thanks Mike, there’s a lot in the natural world we can all still appreciate. And being in NZ/Australia means we get a lot of chances still to experience it.
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December 18, 2009 4:32pm
big bruv

Red

Sorry, I missed your post at 9.48am

Either you have deliberately misrepresented what I had to say or I did not make myself clear, I suspect it is the later.

For the purposes of the discussion I have separated the concept of Whanau Ora where it comes to the care of at risk kids and the intervention of agencies such as the Waiparea trust in the lives of low life Maori families, to me it is all about saving the kids, when it comes to the lives of babies I could not give a flying fuck about the politics of it.

I will never accept that placing Maori kids with other Maori families simply because they share the same skin colour is a good idea, these at risk kids should go to the most suitable family available irrespective of their race, I also remain horrified that the female co leader of the apartheid party will not allow the gutless National government to touch the DPB when it comes to Maori.

I hope that clears it up.
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December 18, 2009 4:35pm
krazykiwi (formerly getstaffed)

That smartly dressed lady Hillary Clinton has just donned her Santa Claus outfit and promised that she, and a long list of countries (Norway, Russia, Spain, Britain, the US, Denmark, Australia, Germany, France, Sweden, Japan and possibly China) will pass the hat around to collect $100b per annum in global socialist charity for poorer nations… who are understandably extatic.

Maria de Fatima Monteiro Jardim, environment minister of Angola, noted that African countries suffer dire poverty. Angola in south-central Africa, for example, suffers some of the lowest life expectancy and highest infant mortality rates in the world.

“The rich countries could give more, it’s my opinion,” Jardin said. “More, more, more, more.”

Of course this is all mealy mouthed platitudes from the world’s most slimy politicians. Just who does Clinton think she is offering to start an international tax collection plan against the economies of sovereign nations… each of which will no doubt be ducking for cover if there’s any move to firm up amounts, payment timelines etc.

And where is our fearless leader in all this? How badly does he want UN kudos, and how much will that cost our tiny nation?
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December 18, 2009 4:52pm
Chthoniid

Ending the $US 280bn annual subsidies to agriculture in the rich, OECD countries might do more in the long run for African development options than giving them more aid.

I like the way that in order to overcome problems created by spending money on the wrong things in the first place, we have to spend more money trying to counter that mistake. I look forward to the day when we try to fix these problems by spending less money on creating the mess to begin with.
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December 18, 2009 5:01pm
reid

“Just who does Clinton think she is…”

You know who she is, kk(fgs), along with the others of her ilk as well.

I saw a BBC item this morning, re: Bangladesh, which is apparently disappearing beneath the waves due to AGW. After a resident had had AGW “explained to him” he said he wants the west to stop driving cars.

As you know, AGW is a vehicle toward other ends. Nothing more, nothing less. That money will be collected, have no doubt and if any nation refuses to cough up, watch the global excoriation, and imagine what’s going on in the diplomatic channels that most of us never see. Because you see, manbearpig is much much more important than the actual annual occurrence of a few million starving human beings in some African nation that few people have ever heard of. This time, it really matters.
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December 18, 2009 5:18pm
MikeNZ

another web article about libel laws in UK.
this time from sciences perspective.
http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/333/
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December 18, 2009 5:39pm
MikeNZ

Chthoniid
So basically, there’s a lot of wasted material in DNA, the peculiar vulnerability to UV radiation seems on reflection, a poor design feature and it doesn’t actually work unless you apply a system-patch into the process. Hmm, maybe DNA was designed by Microsoft…

Wasted material – refering to what? – species lost in time perhaps or just redundant code.
UV vulnerability – remember the fall? – or maybe the flood and 120yrs.
DNA can’t have evolved, the maths doesn’t allow it which you must know surely?
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December 18, 2009 5:50pm
Redbaiter

While network and mainstream journalists were quick to report on the Tea Party attendees as haters, racists and deranged, none of them have seen fit to remark upon the high level of input of Socialist/ Progressive/ Communists had into the so called “protest” marches at Copenhagen. Nothing from the Herald or the Dominion or TVNZ or TV3 either. Just liars and politically partisan deceivers the whole bunch of them.

Br grateful for Andrew Breitbart. A real journalist in a fetid swamp of unprincipled propagandists. See the video here-

http://www.breitbart.tv/flag-waving-communists-socialists-march-in-copenhagen-to-stop-global-warming/
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December 18, 2009 6:11pm
reid

Tea Party?

Got a link?

P.S. Wonder how many of these protesters are the sons and daughters of the CND ~~protestors~~ hippies.
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December 18, 2009 6:18pm
krazykiwi (formerly getstaffed)

reid – Bangladesh isn’t disappearing.. it’s growing:

Bangladesh is often held up as the ‘ground zero’ of climate change, with environmental experts predicting that rising sea levels could engulf much of the country of 150 million people within the next 50 years.

But a recent survey by a Bangladeshi research institute shows that the country’s landmass has actually increased by more than 1,000 square km (386 square miles) since 1973, due to rivers dumping sediment as they meet the sea.

Bangladesh could also gain another 1,000 square km by 2050, according to scientists from the state-run Centre for Environment and Geographic Information Services (CEGIS) in Dhaka, Bangladesh’s capital

Some of that sediment is sinking, leading to claims of sea-level rises. Pfffft.
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December 18, 2009 6:19pm
reid

Maybe we should let the BBC know.
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December 18, 2009 6:27pm
Steve

Fanganui, Whanganui, Wanganui.
Once again we sit on the fence so as not to offend Maori. Williamson, you are a soft cock and Ken Mair gloats at you.
Yes you Mr Williamson, you have no balls.
Some shithole town with a river is controlled by Maori arseholes. There was a principle involved here and you Mr Williamson have ignored it.
Come Election time and you in National are going to whistle to get a vote from many. Some of us have had enough of this Maori Bullshit.
Cogsucker as in “Johny Dangerously”
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December 18, 2009 6:54pm
Pete George

You missed Hwanganui which is apparently closer to actual pronunciation.
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December 18, 2009 6:58pm
Viking2

Well heard a little story about the appeaser Williamson the other day. Called a meeting for some advice on a major problem facing many kiwi’s. Well learned gentlemen present and MW started the ball rolling by saying that whatever they suggested he was NOT going to do anything that would LOSE VOTES.

Hmm well that will solve a lot of issues. He has gone on since to place many of those votes in jeopardy. Silly man.
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December 18, 2009 7:19pm
Robert Black

Believe me the Whanganui thing and flag are just the tip of the ice-berg. It actually isn’t nice to see the country you grew up in self-destructing from afar. The sad thing is there will be few people, if any, as brave as Mike Laws to battle it.

Oh well.

Goodnight Kiwi.
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December 18, 2009 8:03pm
Chthoniid

MikeNZ- I’m not sure how many people will be following this on a Friday night, but some comments perhaps.

First, junk DNA makes up the majority of a genes. It’s like building a house with 10 bathrooms but only connecting one. With the pre-Cambrian era dominated by prokaryotic organisms, movement of DNA between organisms (like viruses) was easy. Junk accumulates. But it’s not a good design principle.

Second, DNA is a long chain of amino-acids. Amino-acids have been generated in lab-experiments of pre-Cambrian conditions since the 1950s. So, I don’t see how anyone can generate a mathematical proof that one specific amino-acid chain (but not others) was impossible to evolve. Indeed, without detailed knowledge of the starting conditions in the pre-Cambrian era (which is very fragmentary) such a mathematical test would be impossible to devise. Sorry.

Third, changing the laws of science around ‘the fall’ is pretty ad hoc as things go. It also seems unnecessarily vindictive to punish even Paramecium by making their DNA vulnerable to UV radiation for something Adam & Eve did.

Christianity has contributed significantly to the development of Western civilisation (and I have argued in support of this before on Kiwiblog). But trying to force the science to fit the Bible isn’t going anywhere.
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December 18, 2009 8:17pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Glenn Beck is more of a Libertarian than David Farrar.

Now that’s a fun fact.
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December 18, 2009 8:31pm
Manolo

“Glenn Beck is more of a Libertarian than David Farrar.”

It’s like comparing the Everest against a sand dune.

Lately, DPF is showing increasing signs of progressivism and he is shifting to the left of the political spectrum, which fits well with his National Party membership.
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December 19, 2009 7:02am
joe90

One of the heroes of the modern right wing, Michele Bachmann,at a meeting of the Living Word Christian Center in 2006 telling the crowd that she receives prophetic visions and divine instructions directly from God.
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December 19, 2009 7:24am

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