General Debate 15 December 2009

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dog_eat_dog

Freeview might be great for picture quality, but it’s created a regional monopoly for retailers. A TV that costs $2,200 USD and $4000 AUD costs $7,000 NZD here, and because of our unique Freeview standard, these can’t just be imported. Someone needs to examine why New Zealanders are paying much more than anyone else in the world for our consumer electronics.
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December 15, 2009 11:26am
tom hunter

The following is a transcript of an address by the President of The United States, to the attendees of the Copenhagen Global Warming Treaty Conference:
————-
Good morning. I welcome all of you to this historic occasion. I am almost humbled at the thought that there are representatives here tonight from 192 countries, including relatives of mine from Kenya.

(points to Kenyan delegation). Yes I did!

Today we meet to confront one of the greatest threats to the world; the challenge of preventing our species being cooked to death. I know that many of you may regard obese Americans as just one of many symptoms of this threat. But in fact it is the root cause. We are confronted with a moral, spiritual and duodenal crisis. We must all join together in this brave new world, accepting a simple philosophy: everything within the environment, nothing outside the environment.

I do not bring with me today a definitive solution to the problem of global warming. But for too long my nation has Big-Gulped it’s way to prosperity. We have caused unprecedented tensions in recent years by pursuing faster pizza deliveries and lighter salad dressings. We have been a government of the consumer, by the consumer, for the consumer. We have created a tumultuous history by imposing these ideas on all of you. This cannot continue. We have grown accustomed to skinny Indians and stooped Chinese and I say that the world cannot afford a billion Indians and a billion Chinese grown Rubenisque on Dunkin Donuts, exhaling countless megatons of Co2.

There are those who say that this is not possible. That we cannot make China and India richer while also making America richer and reduce CO2. But that is a false choice. Let me be clear: to reduce CO2 we only have to make one of those three great emitters relatively poorer. To that end I have taken unprecedented steps to rectify this situation. I have decreed that the production of American goods will gradually be moved to less fortunate areas of the globe. This will have a double impact. First, the toil and sweat of our forefathers will passed over to wage slaves who will burn calories, reduce their girth, and have less time to argue with their betters. Second, it will reduce the amount of money in America, thereby creating more opportunities for them to do less damage to the environment and reducing the the threat of inflation in a single stroke.

To do this I have purchased entire American companies, including most of those run by the United Auto Workers Union. I have purchased the purchasers of those companies, the great Barons of Wall Street, and have bent them to my will. I would especially like to thank the Chinese Treasurer for his assistance in this effort, and he and the Prime Minister of India have assured me that all these Americans will soon be arriving in their countries to provide them with the expertise needed to reduce CO2 production by focusing these engines of capitalism on places that want to be capitalist. Next year I will engage with these same nations in a Capitalist Change Summit.

Because it is part of the developed world Europe cannot expect the same type of assistance from us, especially where they speak Austrian. However, right next to them is Russia, a country that has made great strides in reducing greenhouse gas production by imposing central planning on its industries. I have looked into Vladimir Putin’s eyes and seen in them his burning desire to assist Europe in the same way, and I want him to know that I will do anything, absolutely anything, – no really, anything – to help him – oh and President Medvedev as well.

I have introduced vast, unprecedented, new healthcare programs, where Americans will be able to find the Health Management Rationing and diet-care they need.

Beginning this moment, my nation will never use more foreign oil than it did in 1977 – never. I will use my presidential authority to forbid the entry into the United States of one drop more of foreign oil than my goal allows. Legislation introduced in the Carter-Canute Senate bill will be signed by me as soon as it is prised from the cool, botoxed hands of Nancy Pelosi.

All this I have done, and more I will do. Through the efforts of my Environmental Protection Agency I have declared Co2 to be a pollutant and sworn to reduce my vassal’s production of this evil chemical 17% by 2020. I have placed my Vice-President, Joe Biden, in overall charge of enforcing this reduction across all 57 US states using the community organizing power of the ACORN group.

As an example of multilateral cooperation Mr Biden has recommended to me the man who will extend this effort to other nations and spearhead it, a man of original ideas, the former President of France, Jacques Chirac. Mr Biden assures me that there is a long and honourable history of such cooperation between our two countries, from the days when President Gaston Doumergue made a joint TV appearance with President Franklin Roosevelt to reassure investors shaken by the Crash of 1929, to more recent years when Mr Chirac strove so valiantly to prevent war.

Some will say that a 17% reduction is too great an effort, that it will cause too much damage to the American economy. Some have said worse in these last few years. I have heard a great deal of this type of language, filling the American people with divisiveness and despair and damaging our standing with the rest of humanity.

But the American people are not filled with despair. On one shining day in November 2008 they began to reach out again to the world; to say that there is change, that we can move forward progressively together and hope. They have broken with the recent past, where nuclear weapons were held at the whim of insane old men and woman who used them to tear down mere walls. The American People have demonstrated that a world where an African-American child of a solo, hippie mother can attain the highest office, is a world where traditional energy production can attain the lowest reputation.

They have reached back to our distant past, where those who came before us made certain that this country rode the first waves of horses, the first waves of canals, and the first waves of flower power, and this generation does not intend to founder in the backwash of the coming age of global warming. We mean to be a part of it – we mean to organize it. Now it is time to take shorter breaths – time for a great new American rationing – time for this nation to take a clearly organizing role in being cool, which in many ways may hold the key to my future on this planet.

Therefore, as we set sail on this rising ocean, we ask God’s blessing, on the wildest and grooviest and coolest adventure on which man has ever embarked. We will surf these higher waves to broad sunlit uplands, where grandchildren once condemned to be entombed in horseless carriages beneath skies filled with acid rain, will ride unicorns while chasing lemonade raindrops.

I have a hope that one day even the nations of Texas and Saudi Arabia, places bathed in the greasy memories of carbonised fossils, sweltering with the heat of unjust earnings, sweltering with the heat of oppressive wealth, will be transformed into oasis of freedom, justice, poverty and rivers of ice.

And this will be the day, when the sons of oil sheiks and the sons of Humvee owners and even typical white people clinging to their guns and religions, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of that old Inconvenient Truth:

Cool at last! Cool at last!
Thank Gore Almighty, we are cool at last!
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December 15, 2009 11:27am
Jack5

Now that Bro. Key has allowed the new Maori flag to fly alongside the NZ flag at official residences on Waitangi Day, in the interests of equality we await:

1. A fat, tattooed, neo-Nazi, bum bared, firing a shotgun into the rangatira flag for the MSM cameras.
2. A separate flag for non-Maori NZers, since the NZ flag is still for everyone. Someone may know whether von Tempsky had a flag for his rangers.

It’s an interesting question whether far-right leader Chapman qould qualify to shoot the Maori flag. First he may be too tall. Second he’s said to be part-Maori.

Latest on the Maori flag at Granny Hooerald:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10615550
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December 15, 2009 11:30am
RightNow

dog_eat_dog, you could always buy a seperate freeview receiver and then you can use any TV you want, imported even or bought from parallel importers. http://www.freeviewnz.tv/products/listing/all/digital_receivers
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December 15, 2009 11:32am
bearhunter

Dog_eat_dog: I bought a perfectly fine 32″ Sony last weekend with a built-in Freeview receiver for $890. Works fine.
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December 15, 2009 11:36am
malcolm

“Greece is at risk of ‘sinking under its debts'”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8411749.stm

The Greek Prime Minister has warned that the country is at risk of “sinking under its debts”. He also called for calm and reassured his population: “Although we’re in the shit, my government has a plan. I can assure my fellow Greeks that our situation is nowhere near as bad as what we see in New Zealand. In fact we may benefit from the inaction of the New Zealand government; we can expect an influx of NZ fish ‘n’ chip shop proprietors to settle here in Greece for a more prosperous future.”
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December 15, 2009 11:37am
RightNow

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/3161868/Polar-ice-gone-in-five-years-Gore

So in 5 years time if the polar ice isn’t gone can we officially call time on AGW?
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December 15, 2009 11:38am
dog_eat_dog

RightNow, that is true, but I’m not sure I want to risk importing a TV from the States. I just want to know what warrants markups like that. Is it right that the people who buy TVs in the other 11 months of the years pay through the nose to subsidise the (more realistic) discount prices at Xmas/New Years?

BearHunter, I’ve got a 46″ LCD that I paid $3,800 for, and that was through a guy who knows a guy. Given the margins retailers and importers must be collecting these days, I won’t be replacing it any time soon.
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December 15, 2009 11:40am
dime

Jack5 – BAHAHAHA someone contact the Hells Angels
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December 15, 2009 11:40am
Jack5

More on the Maori flag…

Dover Samuels makes a lot of sense. Nice one Dover, with Clark gone, Labour starts to look human again.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/audrey-young/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501219&objectid=10615580
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December 15, 2009 11:41am
Manolo

Can you imagine the outrage if Labour’s Clark had allowed the Maori flag to be flown at Premier House on Waitangi Day? She would’ve copped a bollocking from the opposition and deservedly so.

Now that the spineless Neville Key is the PM he can grant the racists their wish and behave as if nothing had happenned.

I heard him on NewstalkZB today uttering lame excuses (“the flag means different things to different people”, “partnership”) to justify his complete surrender to the racist Maori Party.

I insist, Key is unfit for office.
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December 15, 2009 11:42am
Murray

169 years to build a nation, one rich prick to fuck it up.
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December 15, 2009 11:43am
Jeff83

Freeview might be great for picture quality, but it’s created a regional monopoly for retailers. A TV that costs $2,200 USD and $4000 AUD costs $7,000 NZD here, and because of our unique Freeview standard, these can’t just be imported. Someone needs to examine why New Zealanders are paying much more than anyone else in the world for our consumer electronics.

You can import ANY tv and get a seperate freeview box for a mere $100. The only requirement for such a tv is if it is built in, and then most can be programmed.

Perhaps a little research before spurting mistruths.
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December 15, 2009 11:48am
joe90

Jack5 – BAHAHAHA someone contact the Hells Angels

Nah, they’re busy
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December 15, 2009 11:48am
Swiftman the infidel

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I am a former National voter who changed over to ACT a few years back.

At the last election I saw Helen KKKlarKKK as sooooooo bad I voted National in order to be rid of her.

I am now extremely sorry to have done so and I beg the forgiveness of my fellow New Zealanders.

I hate that low class jewish prick MORE than I have hated that ugly old lesbo.

FUCK YOU JOHN KEY. ROT IN HELL.

That asshole sells my 7 year old son’s future down the Waikato River every day.

Again, FUCK YOU JOHN KEY YOU LOW CLASS YIDDISH PRICK.

(I feel a bit better now)

[DPF: And that’s 100 demerits for the combination of yiddish, jewsih, lesbian, prick and arsehole. Thank you for showing your racism, anti-semitism and general bigotry in the one comment]
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December 15, 2009 11:50am
Inventory2

In better news, Transmission Gully may yet be constructed in my lifetime

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10615608

As a frequent driver to Wellington, that has to be good news!
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December 15, 2009 11:52am
dog_eat_dog

Jeff, I’m not spouting mistruths. The integrated Freeview standards are different, that’s it, and you CAN plug in external decoders, but I’m not being told why importers/retailers are creaming it down here.
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December 15, 2009 11:52am
Jeff83

BearHunter, I’ve got a 46″ LCD that I paid $3,800 for, and that was through a guy who knows a guy. Given the margins retailers and importers must be collecting these days, I won’t be replacing it any time soon.

Again wrong.

For the record at least 2/3 of NZ’s major electronic retailers (Noel L / BB and JB HiFi) made significant losses last year, the average margin on a tv sale these days is jack all. The importer however does generally make a large margin I understand, however this has likely become squeezed as of late.
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December 15, 2009 11:52am
malcolm

I am a former National voter who changed over to ACT a few years back.

At the last election I saw Helen KKKlarKKK as sooooooo bad I voted National in order to be rid of her.

Swiftman, why did you vote for National rather than ACT? I’m also an ACT supporter but I hear this often.
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December 15, 2009 11:56am
Jack5

Is the 11.50 post of “Swiftman the Infidel” for real? If it’s some sort of satire or parody, it doesn’t work.

If it’s neither of these the post is from someone of the political type our fathers, uncles, grandfathers swapped bullets with, and good on them.

Change your name 11.50 poster to: Swiftman the Idiot.
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December 15, 2009 11:57am
Michaels

Swiftman….. I understand where you are coming from but slightly harsh I think.
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December 15, 2009 11:58am
Murray

You want to revise that yiddish crack swiftman?

Can’t say I recall seeing him in a synagogue recently.
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December 15, 2009 12:02pm
Michaels

Swiftman……. Idiots guide to demerits here, I am picking 50.

Demerits

To deal with the more abusive and disruptive commenters, Kiwiblog is operating a demerit system. The general guide to demerit points will be:

100 points – For highly defamatory comments
50 points – For grossly inflammatory comments with no redeeming quality
35 points – For blatant trolling, highly inflammatory comments
20 points – abusive language
10 points – posting off topic
5 points – For minor infractions, such as one inflammatory sentence in an otherwise good post
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December 15, 2009 12:07pm
big bruv

Swiftman

Nobody dislikes our gutless socialist PM more than I do, however, calling him a ‘yiddish prick’ is below the belt.

You are clearly a fucking idiot.
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December 15, 2009 12:13pm
Viking2

All those that voted left after voting for Act we will forgive you and allow to back into our fold provided you renounce forever your socialist emotions. Human emotions are fine, socialist are not.

New subject;
Now that Williams has released his phone log showing that there were no late calls from his phone are we going to see Key’s log to determine who did make the calls. Was it from the right Bank dept?

MMMM The plot thickens and worse the person responsible must be a socialist cause they are thick as pig shit not to know that all calls are traceable.
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December 15, 2009 12:17pm
Swiftman the infidel

Marx, Engels and Key…Yiddish pricks all.
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December 15, 2009 12:17pm
dime

Malcolm – the fear that Rodney wouldn’t win Epsom and an ACT! vote would be wasted.

I also voted National because Rodney wasn’t having a good year, he seemed more interested in being on the cover of womans day etc.

Not sure who I will vote for next time. If Key promises not to make changes to WFF, student loans etc etc then I might vote Labour. If National get turfed out being labour lite, the will have to move to the right to survive. I can suffer another 3 years of Labour if it means I can dare to dream again.

Its only been a year and National are pretty arrogant.

Normally I’d switch back to ACT!, but as DPF pointed out – National would see this as a good thing.
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December 15, 2009 12:18pm
Fletch

“Greece is at risk of ’sinking under its debts’”

It’s all the fault of man-made climate change I tell ya!!!!!
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December 15, 2009 12:21pm
Michaels

Viking2…. Where did you read/hear this on Williams?
I find it strange considering he himself admitted to late night calls and texts.
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December 15, 2009 12:28pm
malcolm

Malcolm – the fear that Rodney wouldn’t win Epsom and an ACT! vote would be wasted.

OK, thanks Dime. I personally think you need to support the party consistently otherwise they’re seen as a non-viable party and others won’t even consider them. Kind of like the price on a product – it gives people an idea of the intrinsic value.

I also understand your idea of voting for Labour if National are going to make Labour-lie promises, but can the pollies really be expect to unravel all these mixed signals? If National and ACT see your vote going to Labour, then they are going to chaser that by moving to left.
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December 15, 2009 12:30pm
Viking2

Just to lighten our day we need a new billboard and after Tigers infidel no 14 coming to light today I have one for Nike’s
Advertising agency. Now I reckon a good solid splurge for a couple of days would get everyone’s attention if it went something like this.

Men, Nike gets you more girl friends. Just do it.

p.s. do they make condoms?

Add your advert to the list and lets have a laugh rather than listening to the depressing news in politics.
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December 15, 2009 12:34pm
Banana Llama

We should just be done with the pretense and use this after all who cares it is only a flag right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_Nations.svg
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December 15, 2009 12:48pm
bearhunter

“BearHunter, I’ve got a 46″ LCD that I paid $3,800 for, and that was through a guy who knows a guy. Given the margins retailers and importers must be collecting these days, I won’t be replacing it any time soon.”

He must have seen you coming. Place I bought mine (Hill & Stewart, St Luke’s*) had 46″ full HD LCDs with Freeview for under $2500. (*edit* $2388 standard price, but they are negotiable on that.)

*Not that I’m shilling on their behalf.
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December 15, 2009 12:51pm
malcolm

Sorry, my last paragraph above was a mess.

From what Dime said about wanting ACT but voting for National, the 5% threshold seems to cause a self-fulfilling situation for parties below 5%. E.g. If ACT is polling less than 3%, people think their vote will be wasted so they say they’ll give National the tick (or even Labour by some convoluted logic). Other would-be ACT supporters see that ACT is polling <5% and think the same. Sort of posibtive feed-back which keeps the party from breaking through the 5%.

A straw poll of ACT supporters if I may:

– Thumbs up if you gave your party vote to ACT.
– Thumbs down if you didn't.
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December 15, 2009 12:52pm
malcolm

Sorry, my last paragraph above was a mess.

From what Dime said about wanting ACT but voting National, the 5% threshold seems to cause a self-fulfilling trap for parties below 5%. E.g. If ACT is polling less than 3%, people think their vote will be wasted so they say they’ll give National the tick (or even Labour by some convoluted logic). Other would-be ACT supporters see that ACT is polling <5% and think the same. A kind of positive feedback which keeps the party from breaking through the 5%.

A straw poll of ACT supporters if I may:

– Thumbs up if you gave your party vote to ACT.
– Thumbs down if you didn't.
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December 15, 2009 12:54pm
Murray

You applying the the Nurenburg laws to class Key as Jewish are swiftman?

Or just bucking for anti-semitic fuckwit of the day?
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December 15, 2009 12:56pm
malcolm

Sorry, my last paragraph above was a complete mess.

From what Dime said about wanting ACT but voting National, the 5% threshold seems to cause a self-fulfilling trap for parties below 5%. E.g. If ACT is polling say 3.5%, people think their vote will be wasted so they say they’ll give National the tick (or even Labour by some convoluted logic). Other would-be ACT supporters see that ACT is polling <5% and think the same. A kind of positive feedback which keeps the party from breaking through the 5%.

A straw poll of ACT supporters if I may:

– Thumbs up if you gave your party vote to ACT.
– Thumbs down if you didn't.
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December 15, 2009 12:56pm
malcolm

Sorry, my last paragraph above was a mess.

From what Dime said about wanting ACT but voting National, the 5% threshold seems to cause a self-fulfilling trap for parties below 5%. E.g. If ACT is polling say 3.5%, people think their vote will be wasted so they say they’ll give National the tick (or even Labour by some convoluted logic). Other would-be ACT supporters see that ACT is polling <5% and think the same. A kind of positive feedback which keeps the party from breaking through the 5%.

A straw poll of ACT supporters if I may:

– Thumbs up if you gave your party vote to ACT.
– Thumbs down if you didn't.
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December 15, 2009 12:57pm
RAS

Swiftman the infidel @ December 15th, 2009 at 11:50 am

I’m amazed Swiftman got 7 up-ticks for spouting such abject idiocy.
Forget ACT, you’re a much better fit with the National Front or NZ First you fucking moron.
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December 15, 2009 12:58pm
philu

there ya go swifty..!

malcom sez act will welcome you with open arms..

they won’t mind that you are racist/anti-semitic scum..

off you go..!

you’ll find lots more there just like you..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 15, 2009 12:59pm
Johnboy

When is Aunty Helen getting her visage and coat of arms on it Banana Llama?
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December 15, 2009 12:59pm
malcolm

Phil, didn’t you reach 100 demerits yesterday? Are you testing to see if DPF will double your time-out period?

Swiftman said he was an ACT supporter. Good for him. He has that part right at least. I was just curious why be voted for John Keyless.
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December 15, 2009 1:01pm
Johnboy

“Forget ACT, you’re a much better fit with the National Front or NZ First you fucking moron. ”

Or maybe the maori party mofo division. 🙂
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December 15, 2009 1:01pm
dime

philu – the left are the worst kind of racists. have a think about affirmative action.
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December 15, 2009 1:02pm
philu

racism and anti-semitism..and ‘far-right’ politics..

have always fitted together like a hand and glove..

swifty is just really issuing a mating-call..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 15, 2009 1:02pm
Johnboy

“they won’t mind that you are racist/anti-semitic scum..”

Or maybe the Greenies after all they accept drug raddled armed robbers.
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December 15, 2009 1:03pm
Johnboy

“racism and anti-semitism..and ‘far-right’ politics..”

How many Jews did Uncle Joe liquidate when he purged the party then phool?
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December 15, 2009 1:05pm
philu

oh..right..dime..’affirmative action is racism’..eh..?

(yet another of the mating-calls of ‘the rightwing anti-semitic/racist scum’..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 15, 2009 1:05pm
philu

“..Or maybe the Greenies after all they accept drug raddled armed robbers…”

no they didn’t..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 15, 2009 1:06pm
Michaels

Damn I hate being wrong…. I was going to pick 100 but thought Baloo may go a bit soft.
Never mind.
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December 15, 2009 1:06pm
stephen

I feel almost privileged to have seen 100 demerits handed out – ‘teh internetz, dredging up incohrent ravings since…whenever.’
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December 15, 2009 1:19pm
malcolm

Bugger. Sorry about the multiple posts. I blame John Key of course.
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December 15, 2009 1:30pm
Murray

What dickhead claimed racism and anti-Semitism are right? You need only look at Helen Clark as an example of the opposite.

Recall Phil Goff hodling hands with a terrorist anyone?
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December 15, 2009 1:35pm
Chthoniid

There is a lot of overt racism in Green movements. This is commonly manifested in support for policies that harm poor, rural communities dependent on wildlife. These include campaigns to create nature reserves in areas populated by indigenous peoples, and preventing traditional land or wildlife uses in the name of ‘conservation’. An obvious example tigers, where Western NGOs put a lot of effort into turning human forest communities into ‘tiger food’. Poor brown children aren’t as important as tigers you see.

In my experience (i.e. from the vantage of someone who works in these areas, rather than hides behind a keyboard posing as an environmentalist), it is the more conservative “greenies” who campaign most forcefully for these rural, indigenous communities and their rights.

The degree of institutionalised racism in Green movements is simply astounding.
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December 15, 2009 1:44pm
ernesto

Didn’t Swiftman out himself some time ago as an accountant for a Water retailer?
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December 15, 2009 1:52pm
Johnboy

Thats so true. Chthoniid. I have been on the receiving end of that kind of greenie racism. As an indiginous, poor white trash, redneck hunter with a family to feed (who barely existed on the venison fillets I brought home) I was constantly attacked by the F&Birders, DOC and the hand wringers in general for resisting the purification they brought to the forests by the sacred use of 1080.
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December 15, 2009 1:55pm
Murray

I’m sorry can we go back to these venison fillets please. I wouldn’t mind some barely existing myself.
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December 15, 2009 1:58pm
stephen

There is a lot of overt racism in Green movements. This is commonly manifested in support for policies that harm poor, rural communities dependent on wildlife.

How do you know it’s racism, not any of the other -isms?
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December 15, 2009 3:18pm
dime

phil – yea it is. i remember being at high school and my maori buddy being told he didnt need to do as well in the exams as a white guy. basically – we expect less of you because you’re maori.

that my friend, is racist.
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December 15, 2009 3:30pm
Max Call

Polls
What are you doing for the Xmas break?

Holidaying at home (65%, 13 Votes)
Holidaying elsewhere in NZ (45%, 9 Votes)
Holidaying overseas (15%, 3 Votes)
Total Voters: 20

hmmmm….
luckily numeracy is going to be tested in the National Standards 😉
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December 15, 2009 4:15pm
kowtow

Al Bore making a fool of himself at Copenhagen

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/copenhagen/article6956783.ece
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December 15, 2009 5:00pm
Steve

Max at 4.15.

It is done with a 122% Parlimentary Calculator
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December 15, 2009 5:45pm
Pete George

With half price sales seeming to be normal these days, shouldn’t they call them ordinary price sales and charge double price when things are not on sale?
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December 15, 2009 8:13pm
jcuknz

Tom Hunter … that was great, magnificent effort 🙂

When NZ goes HDTV I may just buy a converter for my computer, but until then I am happy with my 14″ set for the time I waste in front of it, around 35minutes most nights. Mind you I’m upgrading my computer for Christmas.
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December 15, 2009 9:31pm
Luc Hansen

Chthoniid.

For all your self proclaimed environmentalism, and I take it that you are well paid for your skillful pics, the tenor of your post is that people take precedence over endangered animals. I think this is mistaken and that you present a textbook example of the fallacy of false dilemma.

I suggest that rather than opposing protection of endangered species you apply yourself to assisting the local indigenous population to access an alternative source of food, and maybe educate them that there is an alternative to hunting animals to extinction. Pretty much a win-win scenario, in my (non-wildlife photographer) opinion.

Both you and your Greenies have good intentions. You should work together.
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December 15, 2009 9:54pm
Luc Hansen

How many demerit points is Swiftman going to cop for impersonating DPF?
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December 15, 2009 9:58pm
Johnboy

Amazing! I always pictured Swiftman as a tall, slim fellow. Just amazing!
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December 15, 2009 10:08pm
Luc Hansen

And Johnboy, I picture you as a mother and apple pie, blond haired, dimpled goody two shoes who looks intensely into a girl’s widening eyes while down below I quietly slide my finger into her pussy.

Just amazing!
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December 15, 2009 11:23pm
Chthoniid

Luc, the tenor of my remark is that effective conservation depends on respecting local communities in conservation work, as they typically bear the brunt of the costs and risks of such campaigns.

It isn’t about letting people take precedence. It’s about who gets to bear the costs of conservation policies. A lot of conservation policy is pushed onto poor brown or black communities, who are then seen as “the problem” by green NGOs. That is an unfortunate and somewhat unpalatable aspect of many green NGOs.
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December 16, 2009 9:34am
stephen

But how does that necessarily make them racists?
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December 16, 2009 11:30am

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