General Debate 13 December 2009

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billyborker

Your turn to be Tiger Woods. Can you outrun an angry wife? What happens if she catches you? And just WHO is the passenger in the car?

http://www.break.com/games/tiger-woods-wife-outrun.html
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December 13, 2009 1:08pm
Johnboy

Congratulations to regular commenter Chicken Little who is guest speaker at Copenhagan. At last a voice of reason on climate change.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news-cartoons/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=500814

(psst. chicken suggest you destroy all the emails from Foxy Loxey and Henny Penny in cause they get hacked.)
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December 13, 2009 1:11pm
nickb

Whats the difference between Santa and Tiger Woods?

Santa stops at three ho’s.
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December 13, 2009 1:13pm
joe90

Beck Compares Tiger To OJ Simpson
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December 13, 2009 1:17pm
Johnboy

Here is the speech of Geert Wilders, Chairman, Party for Freedom, the Netherlands , at the Four Seasons, New York , introducing an Alliance of Patriots and announcing the Facing Jihad Conference in Jerusalem .

Dear friends,

Thank you very much for inviting me.

I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world. There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic. We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe.

First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe . Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem .

The Europe you know is changing.

You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration.

All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It’s the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street corners. The shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics. These are Muslim neighborhoods, and they are mushrooming in every city across Europe . These are the building-blocks for territorial control of increasingly larger portions of Europe , street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city.

There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe . With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule.

Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam , Marseille and Malmo in Sweden . In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities.

In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims.

Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear ‘whore, whore’. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin.

In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin . The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity.

In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels , because he was drinking during the Ramadan.

Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya , Israel . I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.

A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe . San Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century.

Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew Research Center reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France . One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim students are in favor of a worldwide caliphate. Muslims demand what they call ‘respect’. And this is how we give them respect. We have Muslim official state holidays.

The Christian-Democratic attorney general is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim majority. We have cabinet members with passports from Morocco and Turkey .

Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behavior, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for example against ambulance workers and bus drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the low-income suburbs, the banlieus. I call the perpetrators ‘settlers’. Because that is what they are. They do not come to integrate into our societies; they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam. Therefore, they are settlers.

Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native people to leave their neighborhoods, their cities, their countries. Moreover, Muslims are now a swing vote not to be ignored.

The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behavior is an example to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now, if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile, and had several marriages – at the same time. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam, it is bad.

Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion. Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in its essence Islam is a political ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means ‘submission’. Islam is not compatible with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is sharia. If you want to compare Islam to anything, compare it to communism or national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies.

Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam ‘the most retrograde force in the world’, and why he compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel . First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our first line of defense.

This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam’s territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines , Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan , Lebanon , and Aceh in Indonesia . Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War.

The war against Israel is not a war against Israel . It is a war against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel , Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming.

Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel , they can get everything. So-called journalists volunteer to label any and all critics of Islamization as a ‘right-wing extremists’ or ‘racists’. In my country, the Netherlands , 60 percent of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy mistake since World War II. And another 60 percent sees Islam as the biggest threat. Yet there is a danger greater danger than terrorist attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing. The lights may go out in Europe faster than you can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe without freedom and democracy, an economic wasteland, an intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America – as its allies will turn into enemies, enemies with atomic bombs. With an Islamic Europe, it would be up to America alone to preserve the heritage of Rome , Athens and Jerusalem .

Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe , American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home, and whose memory we cherish. My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard won liberty to Europe ‘s children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with mullahs and imams. Future generations would never forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We simply do not have the right to do so.
We have to take the necessary action now to stop this Islamic stupidity from destroying the free world that we know.
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December 13, 2009 1:18pm
billyborker

Jesus and Mo know how to handle atheists

http://www.jesusandmo.net/2009/12/08/crowd/
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December 13, 2009 1:21pm
Michael E

Does anyone think that sending rude texts to the PM would go un-noticed? Oddest election campaign strategy I’ve heard of.
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December 13, 2009 1:39pm
Johnboy

Is the reason MP’s try so hard to get re-elected to parliament is that they would hate to have to make a real living under the laws they’ve passed?
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December 13, 2009 1:39pm
nickb

Arent the black caps outstanding today?

Hopefully Tuffey gets his century.
Guess I was a bit off calling Vettori the best allrounder in our history. I do however rate his batting now better than Hadlee’s.

It probably does make him look much better being in the team of today, rather than the better sides of the 80’s. John Reid is in the top 3 as well naturally, and Chris Cairns up there as well.
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December 13, 2009 1:56pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

Anyone would be outstanding when there’s no chance of being caught out. Except Vettori, that is. What a scorcher.
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December 13, 2009 2:07pm
nickb

Heh. Reminds me of when I was a kid, and used to play Shane Warne Cricket on PlayStation, you could put a cheat on that made the fielders unable to catch.
Watching Pakistan reminds me of it
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December 13, 2009 2:11pm
Kris K

Johnboy 1:18 pm,

Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel , they can get everything.

Great post, Johnboy.
If only New Zealand had an MP like Geert Wilders; one who recognises the threat Islam is to the west, and indeed to the entire globe.

Thankfully, God will not allow Israel to fall to Islam, or any other ideology.
In fact, He Himself will preserve them against their enemies:

Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

What a day that will be – when the nation of Israel recognises her Messiah; the Lord Jesus Christ.
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December 13, 2009 2:55pm
STC

Kris K get your head out of the clouds. The idea that somehow the Bible can give a guarentee of independence to a state is beyond farce.
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December 13, 2009 3:05pm
Kris K

STC 3:05 pm,

I guess time will tell whether you’re right, or whether the Creator of the universe is.
I’ll stick with the latter, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.
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December 13, 2009 3:10pm
billyborker

Imagine a world with no religion. We wouldn’t need Gert Wilders, the World Trade Centre would still be standing, Theo van Gogh would still be alive, there would be no stigma to abortion, children would be free from brainwashing and the world would be a better place.
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December 13, 2009 3:21pm
Johnboy

While the Israelis may be a tad religious Kris I suspect they put a little more faith in their exceptional armed forces and the ultimate back-up namely their 2 or 300 nukes and I am very thankful that they do and that so far the US continues to back them against the Jihadists.
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December 13, 2009 3:24pm
Johnboy

But billy in a world like that there would be no reason for either you or Kris to exist. Imagine—–phhhttttt–your gone –not a nice thought!

Yet again, you may have a good point!!
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December 13, 2009 3:29pm
STC

billyborker, I can imagine a world without religion where there is certainly still a stigma to abortion and children are still brought up with bad ideas.

And I can certainly imagine a world without religion still full of violence and terrorism.
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December 13, 2009 3:52pm
noodle

John Boy. Excellent post. This useless waste of time in Copenhagen is a reminder that vast numbers of people can easily be brainwashed, as they have been by the “multicultural is good” defenders, despite all evidence to the contrary in the case of Muslims. Europe is probably beyond saving. Is America watching and learning? I fear it is not.
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December 13, 2009 5:19pm
dime

ah god, that borker thing is still here.

has it just returned from a suspension? or are DPF’s standards slipping?
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December 13, 2009 5:36pm
reid

John Boy’s post IS good. However, it’s been happening for years. The relevant question is: why?
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December 13, 2009 5:38pm
getstaffed

children would be free from brainwashing

borker’s definition of brainwashing is when others don’t teach their kids what he wants them to believe, or when others do teach them what he doesn’t want them to believe. borker for global mind censor.
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December 13, 2009 6:24pm
tristanb

Johnboy, when you die, you die – there is no afterlife. At least atheists admit that. Christians only realise there is no god as they panic on their deathbeds.
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December 13, 2009 6:31pm
reid

“there is no afterlife”

evidence either way for which is?
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December 13, 2009 6:40pm
getstaffed

tristanb – Is it only Christians who ‘panic on their deathbeds’? How many Christians have you been with when they died, and in doing so witnessed this terrible spectacle?
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December 13, 2009 6:41pm
billyborker

There is no after life –

No one has ever come back to tell us how good it is there.

As god had to give us free will so wouldn’t be simply automatons, heaven must either be a place just like here, full of pain and suffering among the garbage and the flowers, OR there is no free will and we are simply automatons and would be bored shitless.

There is, with a few notable exceptions, no mad rush of believers to leave this world for the next, and as tristan says, many of those who struggle strongest and suffer most as they die are xtians or other believers. Seems they lose their belief as death approaches.

When a person dies, there is nothing left, except the mortal remains, and these go nowhere. There’s a cemetery near me, and if I dig it up I’ll find all the dead still there, not one of them enjoying the after life.

None of us like the fact of our mortality, so it is easy to see how after life fantasies arose and are still clung to.
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December 13, 2009 7:14pm
getstaffed

Here’s Prof Schneider[*] dodging a journalist’s questions – 1m35s. Watch security try to get the mic off the journo, and then heavy him after the press conference ends. Disgraceful.

—

“We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. So we have to offer up scary scenarios,
make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
— Prof. Stephen Schneider[*], Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports
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December 13, 2009 7:22pm
getstaffed

Seems they lose their belief as death approaches.

Really? You have been there and witnessed this too? I’ve only been close to a few people as they died. All bar one were Christians, and none paniced or lost their belief system.
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December 13, 2009 7:27pm
Chuck Bird

“Imagine a world with no religion.”

And we would not have all this nonsense about AGW.
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December 13, 2009 7:44pm
dime

exactly chuck!
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December 13, 2009 7:50pm
Viking2

Nats. tide turning. New poll out today.

National down in poll

Sunday, 13, Dec, 2009 6:31PM

The National Party is down but still well ahead in the latest TV3 opinion poll.

These latest numbers have National’s support among voters down almost 5 points to just over 55 percent. The Labour Party is up 3.6 to almost 31 percent support, but the party still trails National by well over 20 points.

Among the minor parties only the Greens are above the important 5 percent MMP threshold on 7.8 percent.

In the preferred Prime Minister stakes John Key has dropped almost 6 points but still commands just under 50 percent support. Phil Goff is up over 3 points and score 8 percent support – he is also now rating higher than former Prime Minister Helen Clark.
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December 13, 2009 8:06pm
Viking2

Government claims 2,000 jobs

Sunday, 13, Dec, 2009 6:34PM

The Government believes its infrastructure package has created well over 2000 jobs. Finance Minister Bill English has released details as to how and where the employment has been created.

Housing has been the main area with the $124 million investment package for Housing New Zealand estimated to have employed around 1000 people.

The Government has pumped in over $140 million into spending on roads – there it is estimated at their peak the projects will support about 600 jobs. Education is the other main area – over $216 million has been budgeted for new schools and upgrade work. The Minister’s office says no exact job head count has been done but officials estimate it will create around 700 jobs.

Well woop de do. Yhat will make a big hole in150,000 plus beneficiaries.
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December 13, 2009 8:09pm
andrei

Has Lynn Prentice been sockpuppeting on Kiwiblog?

If I have read his latest post correctly he has

But there are other interesting aspects to this system. Prior to this I’d left several comments to get a feel for the tolerances of the local in-group. These were from various well-established alter-egos on Kiwiblog. The results were quite interesting as an example of pack behaviours.

If the commentator and comment was left-leaning, they were hidden albeit with lesser anti-scores.
If they were distinctly centre and conservative then they got very close to the trigger values.
If they were outrageously right wingnut statements then they got very positive scores.
I didn’t try obviously green, elderly, female, young or old style comments as I’d need to establish some of these identities.
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December 13, 2009 8:28pm
Johnboy

The dumb prick can’t spell it is fomenting not formenting. Sheeesh!
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December 13, 2009 9:03pm
Rod

“National down in poll”
Hardly surprising after the ETS.
Surely there are more worthy ways to use up the electoral capital than getting sucked into this expensive side issue. There had better be a bigger game behind the strategy or, the way things are developing, several people are going to look rather foolish by next election.
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December 13, 2009 10:34pm
Rod

Here is how the media (and us) have been manipulated over the anthropogenic global warming scandal:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/12/aps-seth-borenstein-is-just-too-damn-cozy-with-the-people-he-covers-time-for-ap-to-do-somethig-about-it/#more-14097
Associated Press, no less!
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December 13, 2009 10:51pm
getstaffed

Rod, that story was run here on Stuff. The wattsupwiththat analysis of the connections is worth reading.
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December 13, 2009 11:01pm
Rich Prick

I have a theory. The left love world wars as they tend to re-distribute wealth, either by acquiring economies or nicking stuff. We have had the dis-incentive, in the form of the bomb, not to have another world war and the left has been without a means to see the re-distribution of wealth on the scale a world war presents. Well they have come up with one now that we are all buying into.

We have AGW. It is nothing more than a socialist tool to see money flow from the West to third world countries in the form of aid. Witness the bleatings of the third world who have said $50bn is not enough, the silly bint from Fiji (Fiji is third worls by the way) crying over her mountainous island “sinking”, and Tuavaleau crying out for cash on the basis of junk science.

AGW is a substitute for WW3, and we are buying it, apparently for more than $50bn. Should we be taxed or ETS’ed to fund the third world?
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December 13, 2009 11:20pm
Rich Prick

AGW is WW3 by stealth, in my opinion.
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December 14, 2009 12:05am
Rich Prick

oh, and as for AGW, I’ve been runing the heating in December in Wellington!
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December 14, 2009 12:14am
Pete George

The left love world wars as they tend to re-distribute wealth, either by acquiring economies or nicking stuff.

That’s one of the more pathetic “theories” I’ve seen here, and that’s saying something.

oh, and as for AGW, I’ve been runing the heating in December in Wellington!

Oh, and that proves everything of course.
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December 14, 2009 6:38am
Pete George

Right-wing violence is much greater threat in the United States, where there is virtually no violence from left-wing groups. The threat has become much greater with the election of Barack Obama, and the toxic mixture of right-wing hate radio/TV and guns is already leading to deadly acts, such as the assassination of a prominent abortion doctor. The blogger/journalist Sara Robinson has been warning about this:

“The right wing long ago accepted a foundational narrative that justifies violence. Now, the leaders of the movement are inciting their followers to take many (if not most) of the intermediate steps that signal a group actively gearing up for violence. From this point, it’s only a short slide to further separation, disengagement, and finally confrontation. What we’ve seen so far has been intense and surprising — but we should also recognize it as the first warning gusts of a rapidly gathering storm.”

http://www.dialoginternational.com/dialog_international/2009/06/leftwing-vs-rightwing-violence.html

This is what Redbaiter has been warning about. It could develop into significant violence in the US, but I don’t see the same signs here.
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December 14, 2009 7:05am
stephen

oh, and as for AGW, I’ve been runing the heating in December in Wellington!

😀

Some say* the world revolves around Wellington, so why not global warming?

*for the purposes of this comment
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December 14, 2009 8:55am

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