General Debate 01 December 2009

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Repton

But what’s your point? Are you suggesting those are negative things? People spending their money on what they want, rather than government taking it to send Hone to Paris?

I guess my point is that you’re unlikely to get a lot more New Zealanders investing in shares simply by lowering taxes. It’s more likely to be spent on imports, which makes our balance of trade deficit worse, or on property, which just results in people spending more for the same thing, while the banks cash in.

Obviously this is not a strong argument against cutting taxes (because otherwise we may as well go to 100% tax), but if the problem is “Not enough kiwis investing in companies”, then I don’t think “lower taxes!” is the solution.
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December 1, 2009 3:58pm
malcolm

Repton, you’re probably right in the short term, but ultimately if people are left with more of their own money, then some of that will find it’s way into investments. And often better and more considered investments than the same dollar spent by the government. Rakon just issued shares to build their joint venture plant in Chengdu. I and a lot of other NZer’s invested in that (they were slightly over-subscribed on the $20M they wanted from non institutional investors). People invest in their own businesses all the time. Plenty of businesses get going and grow off family investments. If taxes were lower then there would be more of that.
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December 1, 2009 4:19pm
Portia

Wow!!

Gareth Morgan Proposes Comprehensive Capital Tax, 25% flat tax, replacement of all benefits HT Bernard Hickey

At last – some new, 21st century, unpolitically-tarnished ideas for us to discuss, debate and play around with. Hallelujah!!
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December 1, 2009 4:26pm
Pete George

That sounds like a real attempt to sort out tax and benefits Portia, being bold and brave rather than Brash. I hope it get’s a lot of discussion going – especially within National. It won’t fly as it is but it’s a refreshing starting point.

Pushing aside the 2025 report may have been anticipation of some real reform ideas.
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December 1, 2009 4:41pm
malcolm

The universal benefit idea has been around for a long time. Very efficient from an admin perspective, but why give $10k to an able-bodied young person?
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December 1, 2009 4:43pm
reid

Just heard him on Radio Left Wing Portia. He sounded credible. Mary of course was her usual poisonous self.
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December 1, 2009 5:52pm
getstaffed

TV3 are going into alarmist damage control.

Climate change stories every night now.

It’s all our fault, but Climatehagen will be our salvation
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December 1, 2009 6:05pm
Pete George

Cool ice caves though, weren’t they.
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December 1, 2009 6:08pm
Hurf Durf

Good on the Aussie Liberals for showing some principle. Cameron must be looking over with consternation.

It’s another thing for James Coe and his shit blog “If Only The Huruld Was Like Alternet” to get butthurt about.
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December 1, 2009 6:14pm
Sonny Blount

Three boys in the US have been booked on suspicion of bullying or kicking red-haired students, at a middle school when a “Kick a Ginger Day” prank inspired by a South Park episode got out of hand.

I blame DPF for promoting the oppression of gingas.
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December 1, 2009 6:57pm
Brian Smaller

Three boys in the US have been booked on suspicion of bullying or kicking red-haired students, at a middle school when a “Kick a Ginger Day” prank inspired by a South Park episode got out of hand.

I blame DPF for promoting the oppression of gingas.

Really? I find myself congratulating DPF for promoting the oppression of gingas.
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December 1, 2009 7:16pm
Hurf Durf

Wow, the moderate centre left doesn’t know what a free market is. I assume it’ll be the same for everything else.
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December 1, 2009 7:26pm
Pete George

This dude must be moderate centre left, his market turned out to be not very free:

A New Zealand man has been ordered to pay US$15.5 million ($21.3 million) for his part in an international spam network

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10612680
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December 1, 2009 7:38pm
Southern Raider

Just watched Morgan on Campbell Live. Was on what Portia linked to above.

– $10K annually given to everyone (paid probably weekly)
– no benefits at all
– 25% flat tax

Was interesting (except for JC interupting Morgan all the time).

Would need to do some calcs for myself but sounds much more efficient and directly benefits those who work hard.
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December 1, 2009 7:44pm
getstaffed

When Phil Jones and Mike Mann are forced out of their highly paid jobs, they could try childrens TV. (hat tip: Gerald Warner)

And now children, here are Phil and Michael to show you how to make your own global warming statistics at home.”

“Hello, children, I’m Phil. Can anyone tell me what Michael is holding? Yes. It’s a hockey stick. Does anybody know what that is for? No, Timothy, it is not to beat the crap out of nasty sceptic Pat Michaels, though that is a very good thing to do. It is to save the world. No, Prunella, Mr Brown did not do that last month, he was only speaking metaphorically. Michael…”

“Right, children. Now, watch what Phil is doing. That thing with steam coming out of it is called a computer. What do you think Phil is putting into it? It’s called data. There we go… lots and lots of lovely codes and nice warm data… Oh, look! Phil is frowning. Something isn’t quite right… So, children, now Phil is feeding in his lucky number… and his doggie’s birthday… and his social security number. It’s getting warmer, that’s good. Now he’s adding in the number he first thought of and – wow! It’s getting really hot. Look at all that smoke coming from the computer – don’t try this at home. I’ll just print off that graph and let you see the pretty picture.”

“Hi, kids, now I’ve finished working with the computer, let’s see what Michael is holding. It’s a graph, showing how hot the world is getting because of motor cars and American Republicans and horrid people called Deniers – Oh, look, Michael is holding his graph upside down. No, he’s not being silly, he’s being responsible. Because, you see, although the words are upside down, the lines are pointing upwards, which is what matters. And when we send it to our colleagues in New Zealand, who are becoming almost as famous as we are, the words will be the right way up, because it’s an upside-down country…”

“Thanks, Phil. That was good. Now, kids, if you’ll watch very carefully, Phil will show you how to fill in a very useful piece of paper called a grant application form. You can send that to some very nice people in America – they’re like Father Christmas, but all the year round, and they give out lots of lovely money that people all over America pay them. Phil…”

“And what do we do now, children? Just like tidying away your toys at home before bedtime? We wipe the computer clean, in case burglars try to break into it and let people see what we’ve been doing. After all, it’s none of their business!”
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December 1, 2009 8:40pm
Luc Hansen

In principle, I think Morgan has come up with a good idea, albeit one that will require some fine tuning. It’s good because the progressiveness is in the asset tax. I’m not sure if he includes the family home in that tax, if he does, then Trust Law would need to be addressed.

I was impressed that evidently Bill English told the Tax Working Group that equity was a primary concern. There may be hope for him yet.

I have read previously that when radical reforms including much lower taxes are enacted, the tax take goes up because it’s not worth the expense and the bother of evading it. The way I see, we don’t have a lot to lose.

Bye bye Don.
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December 1, 2009 8:47pm
Viking2

Just imagine a Martian landing and somebody trying to explain to him/her/it how $Zillions are going to be “traded” for carbon.

“What – you mean that essential gas?”

“That’s right!”

“You buy and sell carbon, which is so plentiful?”

“Yeah – we’ve been told its a pollutant and there’s too much of it.”

“So what do you do with it?”

“Well, nothing really – just buy and sell it.”

“At a profit?”

“Well somebody’s making a bomb on it – don’t know who.” (Thinks – Al Gore?)

“Do you ship it around in liquid form in tankers?”

“No, we just leave it where it is to “do its thing”.”

“Which is?”

“Oh – you, know – help things grow – help people to breath.”

“But you said its a pollutant.”

“Yeah, that too – or so Gore tells us.”

“How and what exactly does it pollute?”

“Dunno, I’m just a climatologist, you’d best ask Al Gore that – or John Key – or Nick Smith – they must know.”

“So – somebody’s making a fortune out of this. But who’s paying?”

“Well, the taxpayer coughs for most of it. Manufacturers and farmers too – pretty much anyone who is producing anything or doing a useful job.”

“Why farmers?”

“Oh, that’s because cattle fart a lot.”

“Really? They fart carbon?”

“Well, no, but I guess they must fart something similar.”

“Do politicians pay their share?”

“What share? Oh – you mean for farting? Probably not. (Thinks – another question for Gore.) Nah, they probably trouser a percentage seeing as they thought the whole scheme up.”

“How will you know when you’ve bought/sold/traded enough?”

“I hadn’t thought of that. Perhaps when the politicians (and Gore) say so.”

“You mean when they’ve bled you dry and their pockets are full?”

“No – it can’t be then.”

“Why – you mean they’ll stop before they’ve bled you dry?

“No – I mean their coffers’ll never be full – they’re bottomless!”

“You realise this is going to ruin you all, do you? That the wheels of industry will gradually grind to a halt – and they wont be able to pay taxes? That education, health services, transport, welfare and all that stuff will be history?”

“Must admit, I have wondered.”

“Well, I’m not hanging around here – it’s going to be chaotic. I’m off back to Mars.”

“OK – see yah! Oh, do you have carbon there?.”

“Yeah, heaps – much more than you do. The percentage varies quite a bit according to the effects of sun-spots and natural variations in the weather patterns. But we don’t worry about it – seems harmless enough – it’s quite inert. Why do you ask?”

“I was just thinking – could I cadge a lift with you?”
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December 1, 2009 8:57pm
Luc Hansen

Poor old getstaffed, still in denial. Did you miss the news that the Mt Everest glacier is retreating at the rate of 70 metres per year?

The evidence is in that the planet is warming. The good news is that it is in the main NOT caused by natural events. The even better news is that we can mitigate, but not eliminate, its effects. It seems we are already too late to avoid some 100,000,000 climate change refugees requiring resettlement.

But just think if we didn’t have the science, we had no idea of the cause of these incredible events. I know exactly what we would be doing.

Sacrifices to the Gods, and woe betide all virgins!
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December 1, 2009 8:57pm
Sonny Blount

Lucy Loves Hansen said:

It seems we are already too late to avoid some 100,000,000 climate change refugees requiring resettlement.

Who are these people? You haven’t included Pacific Islanders fleeing to New Zealand in there have you?
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December 1, 2009 9:11pm
Luc Hansen

opps, just come across this:

Falafulu Fisi (347) Vote: Add rating 10 Subtract rating 0 Says:
December 1st, 2009 at 8:38 am

Listen Fala, according to you then I just can’t win. I present evidence endorsed by the overwhelming majority of climatologists and get told it’s all a conspiracy theory and irrelevant.

Then you come along and say I should present evidence from climatologists only! (Let’s forget about physicists for the purposes of this discussion).

But Lord (inherited title, by the way) Monckton, failed journalist, is all cool! Right?

Yeah right.
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December 1, 2009 9:12pm
getstaffed

Luc – You are misinformed. Again.

The world’s glaciers have advanced and retreated continuously for eons. And they don’t all co-ordinate their movements. The world is coming out of the Little Ice Age so we have longer term warming trend, offset right now by lower levels of solar activity in a short cycle leading to cooling.

Your wet dream of socialist wealth redistribution under the guise of the climate change Trojan horse is turning into a nightmare.

The Aussies have come to their senses, and China and India are already planning their Climeatehagen walkout strategy.

This story has lots more to play as the MSM finally start to get pissed off about being misled.
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December 1, 2009 9:14pm
Sonny Blount

Sacrifices to the Gods, and woe betide all virgins!

Don’t worry, I can help them.
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December 1, 2009 9:15pm
Luc Hansen

good on ya Sonny – thumbs up!

Ad hominems and racism all in a few words.

You have obviously had a lot of practice at it!
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December 1, 2009 9:17pm
Viking2

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=916&p=26564#p26564

WND AT THE WHITE HOUSE
Gibbs: ‘No dispute’ on global warming
Dismisses 31,000 scientists who signed petition challenging ‘consensus’
Posted: November 30, 2009
10:26 pm Eastern

© 2009 WorldNetDaily

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs today brushed aside the concerns of more than 31,000 scientists who have signed a petition challenging the theory of man-made global warming.

WND White House corrrespondent Les Kinsolving brought up the petition as a follow-up to an earlier comment.

Gibbs had been asked by Fox News correspondent Major Garrett, “On climate change, why is it a good idea for the president to arrive near the beginning of the climate talk negotiations (scheduled by the United Nations in Copenhagen early in December) as opposed to the end, when the ultimate deal is going to be struck? And secondarily, does the White House have any evaluation or comment on this controversy of the hacked e-mails that suggest that some of the underlying science through some of the propositions put forward by climatologists may be in error or may have been altered in some way?”

Gibbs responded, “On the second part, I think Carol Browner addressed that last week, on the order of several thousand scientists have come to the conclusion that climate change is happening. I don’t think that’s anything that is, quite frankly, among – most people – in dispute anymore.”

He continued, “In terms of when the president goes, obviously we believe that progress has been made with developing nations – the U.S. has made some progress with the Chinese and the Indians over the past couple of weeks. The president will travel to Oslo on the 10th, and believed it was important to use this visit to help get us to the point of a deal – something that can take the type of action that scientists say needs to be taken to stop and reverse climate change. I think the president believes that a visit happening at the beginning is just as important as it would be at any point to getting that deal going quicker.”

Kinsolving then asked about the Petition Project, launched some 10 years ago when the first few thousand signatures were gathered. It now lists well over 31,000 scientists, including about 6,000 with doctorates, who subscribe to the following statement:

“There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.”

“Are you aware of a list, the published list of 31,000 scientists who oppose this idea of global warming?” Kinsolving asked.

“I don’t doubt that there’s such a list, Lester. I think there’s no real scientific basis for the dispute of this,” Gibbs said.

WND has reported extensively on the U.N. climate change summit in Copenhagen where critics forecast a new world government will be adopted to regulate and address “climate change.”

The hacked e-mails from the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit in the United Kingdom appear to document that many of the scientists promoting man-made global warming – dubbed “warmists” by critics – have manipulated, concealed or doctored information to support their cause.

Report this post
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December 1, 2009 9:22pm
Viking2

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/currentaccount/index.php/theaustralian/comments/australias_ets_will_come_under_the_glare_of_an_election/
ETS will come under the glare of an election

| December 01, 2009 | 47 Comments

Whichever way it goes, it is no bad thing that the whole box and dice of Australia’s emissions trading scheme comes under the glare of an election. Whatever policy comes out of that would likely be strengthened by the process.

Tony Abbott’s one-vote victory over Malcolm Turnbull revealed the deep division on the conservative side of politics between the urban and business progressives on the one hand and the bush, small business and parts of the mining industry on the other.

The deal struck between Labor’s Penny Wong and the Liberals’ Ian Macfarlane was not strong enough to prevent this rupture, itself a result of Australia’s carbon-intensive economic structure based on cheap coal-fired electricity.

That signalled a weakness in the political foundations of the ETS which could end up undermining investor confidence needed to put billions of dollars into transforming Australia to a low carbon economy.

Australians declared at the 2007 election that they wanted action on climate change. But this was mostly about the largely symbolic issue of John Howard’s refusal to ratify the Kyoto protocol. In practice, and contrary to quite a few other rich countries, Australia would have met its Kyoto targets whether or not its government signed the protocol.

The issue now is whether the complex ETS is the best mechanism for Australia meeting its bipartisan targets for cutting emissions by 5, 15 or 25 per cent by 2020. Although the ETS, a form of so-called cap-and-trade, was Howard’s preferred model, voters are confused and wary.

An election will ensure that the details get intense public scrutiny; whatever policy comes out of the process will have more credibility.

Abbott today called the ETS an ‘’energy taxation scheme’’; a slush fund for politicised handouts run by a giant bureaucracy.

That may be so, but an election also will force him to come up with a credible alternative.
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December 1, 2009 9:25pm
Sonny Blount

I said:

Pacific Islanders fleeing to New Zealand

Lucy Loves Hansen said:

and racism all in a few words.

Paranoid leftist.

It must be ok when Al Gore says it though right?
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December 1, 2009 9:29pm
Luc Hansen

getstaffed

You’re dogged ignorance never fails to astound me.

Deep ice core records going back hundreds of thousands of years show that global temperature increases lead global CO2 increases – that is, temperature goes up first followed by a rise in CO2. Surely such evidence should put the brakes on climate hysteria.

Response: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/co2-in-ice-cores/

I look forward to seeing “getstaffed” in the messages thread. Do us all a favour and slam dunk Gavin Schmidt so we can RIP global warming. Forever. Hallelujah.
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December 1, 2009 9:29pm
Luc Hansen

So Sonny, you have no problem with Pacific Islanders fleeing to NZ then, is that right?

If that is right, I would apologise.

The way things are looking, you can look forward to many others aside from Pacific Islanders fleeing climate change to Aotearoa.

Be prepared.
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December 1, 2009 9:34pm
getstaffed

You still quoting RealClimax Luc? Hint: Find another source. RC might say what you like hearing, but it’s well discredited.
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December 1, 2009 9:34pm
Sonny Blount

I actually clicked on one of your sad links Luc.

That was a pathetic explanation from Gavin.

If CO2 caused the last 5/6 of interglacial warming, how did the following glacialiation occur whilst at the peak of CO2 concentration?

I can’t believe your lot are so meekly indoctrinated that you can’t see elephant sized holes in this thinking.

From Schmidt himself:

“Some (currently unknown) process causes Antarctica and the surrounding ocean to warm”

Notice the words ‘currently unknown’ in there Luc? As in even the sages of GW do not know what causes the Earth to naturally warm up.

More from Schmidt:

“the lag shows that CO2 did not cause the first 800 years of warming”

You can’t pretend that this is not a significant problem for your cult Luc.
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December 1, 2009 9:38pm
Hurf Durf

Hahaha! Puke thinks Bangladeshis and others are going to be “resettled.” Wrong. They should get comfy on their floodplains.
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December 1, 2009 9:39pm
Sonny Blount

So Sonny, you have no problem with Pacific Islanders fleeing to NZ then, is that right?

If that is right, I would apologise.

When the hell did I say I did?

I have a problem with it being attributed to climate change rather than simple international urbanisation similar to Kiwis ‘fleeing’ to Aus and the UK.
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December 1, 2009 9:40pm
Luc Hansen

Viking 2

Good post. The ETS is incredibly complicated, but it’s what has gained traction worldwide.

Of course it is an Energy Taxation Scheme. Fossil fuels are the primary cause of global warming.

I have a lot of sympathy for a carbon tax with rebates, but when Labour suggested that scheme it got shouted down, so ETS it is.

Or just ban fossil fuels?
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December 1, 2009 9:41pm
Luc Hansen

Sonny, all cool.

So you have no problems with Pacific Islanders immigrating to NZ. You are just making an observation. Right?

But who says Pacific Islanders have come to NZ because of climate change? I see them as economic refugees.
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December 1, 2009 9:43pm
Hurf Durf

Getstaffed, I wouldn’t be surprised. China and India aren’t going to want to chance their economic growth to appease the guilt of the Socialist Western political class. We already know that both China and the US’ cuts are essentially hollow. Question is, who will be the first to commit economic suicide in the name of Mother Gaia and give the other leaders an excuse to kill themselves in the name of the cult: NZ or Australia?
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December 1, 2009 9:45pm
Southern Raider

Weather forecast for summer in NZ was looking shit on the news tonight. Below average temperatures. Another dud summer.
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December 1, 2009 9:49pm
getstaffed

It’s not just the Climategate fraudsters who manipulate data. Their paymasters at the IPCC are fairly adept at this too.

The work of “2,500+ scientific expert reviewers, 800+ contributing authors, 450+ lead authors from 130+ countries” had culminated in one report, the flyer states. The not unreasonable implication that almost everyone drew was that those 3,750-plus experts and authors stood behind the IPCC’s views of impending doom.

The rest is history. A tricked press reported those figures, often rounding the 3,750-plus people to 4,000. And then the public and the politicians such as Rudd were tricked, too.

How many of those 3,750-plus people from 130-plus countries can the IPCC claim as true backers of its conclusions? An Australian analyst named John McLean scrutinized the lists that the IPCC used to arrive at its figures and found them to be riddled with duplications, such as the 383 authors who also acted as reviewers for the same sections in which their work appeared, and the authors and reviewers who were listed twice or thrice. Remove the duplications and the total number of authors plus reviewers drops from 3,750 to 2,890.

The reviewers, as might be expected, made suggestions. In about 25% of the cases, the editors rejected the suggestions – another indication that the verdict on the IPCC’s report was far from unanimous.

Most importantly, the great majority of the reviewers commented on chapters that dealt with historical or technical issues — matters that didn’t support the IPCC’s conclusions on man-made climate change.

The exception was Chapter 9 — Understanding and Attributing Climate Change. An endorsement here would clearly be a bona fide endorsement of the IPCC’s conclusion. Chapter 9 had 53 authors and it received comments from 55 individual reviewers. Of the 55 individuals, four commented favourably on the entire chapter and three on a portion of the chapter. (To give you the flavour of these endorsements, reviewer David Sexton stated that “section # 9.6 I think reads pretty well for the bits I understand” and reviewer Fons Baede’s endorsement was “Chapter 9 SOD has improved considerably and is very readable and informative.”)

The 53 authors and seven favourable reviewers represent a total of 60 people, leading McLean to conclude: “There is only evidence that about 60 people explicitly supported the claim” made by the IPCC that global warming represents a threat to the planet. Sixty scientists among the 130-plus countries that the IPCC cites amounts to one scientist for every two countries.
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December 1, 2009 10:08pm
Sonny Blount

So you have no problems with Pacific Islanders immigrating to NZ. You are just making an observation. Right?

No Luc, as much as sudden economic imbalances can be controlled I don’t believe in overtly controlling immigration.

Sorry do disappoint your bigoted left wing views of ‘right wing conservatives’
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December 1, 2009 10:20pm
Luc Hansen

Cheers Sonny, good for you.

So what was your point again?
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December 1, 2009 10:26pm
Sonny Blount

But who says Pacific Islanders have come to NZ because of climate change? I see them as economic refugees.

It’s one of the 35 lies mentioned in that propaganda flick ‘An Inconvenient Truth’
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December 1, 2009 10:36pm
Luc Hansen

Sonny Blount (423) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 1 Says:
December 1st, 2009 at 9:38 pm

Try this update.
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December 1, 2009 10:36pm
Luc Hansen

I have never seen that movie, sorry. I will have to do some fact checking on that. Are you sure he wasn’t making a forecast?

Do you have a link for the 35 lies?
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December 1, 2009 10:38pm
Sonny Blount

I will have to do some fact checking on that. Are you sure he wasn’t making a forecast?

I’m quite sure he wasn’t forecasting. He was lying, as per usual.
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December 1, 2009 10:41pm
Sonny Blount

Do you have a link for the 35 lies?

You could try a wonderful site called Google, but don’t worry, like the government in your dreams I’ll do it for you:

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monckton/goreerrors.html
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December 1, 2009 10:44pm
Luc Hansen

Quite sure, huh?

But no link?
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December 1, 2009 10:46pm
Luc Hansen

It’s OK sonny, I found my own.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
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December 1, 2009 10:49pm
Fletch

There won’t be pacific islanders fleeing to NZ. It’s yet more alarmist claptrap.

SEA LEVEL IN THE SOUTHWEST PACIFIC IS STABLE
Posted 4 August 2009

“Graphs of sea level for twelve locations in the southwest Pacific show stable sea level for about ten years over the region. The data … suggest that any rise of global sea level is negligible….. Sea level studies have not been carried out for very long, but they can indicate major tectonic components such as isostatic rebound in Scandinavia. ..Modelling to show alarming rates of sea level rise (associated with alleged global warming) are not supported by primary regional or global data. Even those places frequently said to be in grave danger of drowning, such as the Maldives, Tuvalu and Holland, appear to be safe”. – New paper by Cliff Ollier, University of Western Australia.
LINK to download pdf here http://nzclimatescience.net/images/PDFs/paperncgtsealevl.pdf
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December 1, 2009 10:55pm
Luc Hansen

I’m afraid the people of Holland (The Netherlands) don’t agree with NZ Climate (non) Science, which is why they are spending up large to protect against climate change.
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December 1, 2009 11:15pm
Banana Llama

A city below sea level at risk of flooding? who woulda thunk it guess that can be blamed on the almighty climate change scapegoat as well.
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December 1, 2009 11:37pm
Fletch

Um, Luc,
The Netherlands has ALWAYS been battling against sea levels – that’s what the dykes are for. Without that engineering, the sea would have claimed Holland years ago. I know, as one of my parents is from there. I don’t believe the story at your link has much to do with climate change. It says nothing about them agreeing or disagreeing with man made climate.
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December 1, 2009 11:43pm
Hurf Durf

Here’s something that escaped my attention: Marxist arseholes burn cars in the name of Mother Gaia.
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December 1, 2009 11:54pm
Luc Hansen

Fletch

I guess comprehension is not your strong point.

From the BBC report:

“It’s an excellent example of how a port city can change its focus to tackle the challenges of climate change,” says Mr Jacobs.
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December 2, 2009 12:07am
Put it away

OK I got RIP installed but can’t figure out how to block the fullstop pollution, I try to select one of his posts and block it but rip decides that I’m trying to block peoples names appearing at the start of their posts. Any advice ?
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December 2, 2009 12:18am
Hurf Durf

Put it away:

Open RIP

Click “Add XPath”

Paste //li[cite[contains(.,’philu’)]] into the top most box

Click OK

Click OK again

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December 2, 2009 12:22am
Put it away

Those buttons are greyed out…
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December 2, 2009 12:25am
Hurf Durf

You downloaded the comment filter?
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December 2, 2009 12:30am
Put it away

I downloaded the “Remove it permently” add-on for firefox, is “comment filter” somehting different ?
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December 2, 2009 12:32am
Hurf Durf

It’s the specific file you load onto RIP that goes for KB’s comments specifically. It’ll be where you downloaded RIP.
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December 2, 2009 12:36am
Put it away

Not sure what you mean, I got rip from https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/521, can’t see anything on there
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December 2, 2009 12:39am
Put it away

Off to bed, will try to get it working in the morning. Phool still wasting my electrons unfortunately.
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December 2, 2009 12:44am
stephen

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Great site.
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December 2, 2009 8:27am
Luc Hansen

Breaking News: The IPCC admits to incorrect projections on sea level rise. The expected rise is now approximately doubled to a global average of 1.4m by the end of this century due to faster than expected melting of both Antarctica and Greenland ice shelves.

I guess the deniers will continue their denial even as the sea is lapping at their doors.
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December 2, 2009 8:48am
stephen

The IPCC admits to incorrect projections on sea level rise. The expected rise is now approximately doubled to a global average of 1.4m by the end of this century due to faster than expected melting of both Antarctica and Greenland ice shelves.

Didn’t they previously not choose to take Antarctic and Greenland melting into account because there was uncertainty about measurements, or something? Which emissions path is the 1.4 metres?
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December 2, 2009 8:53am
Redbaiter

If there is one thing that should convince any rational person of the artifice of the “climate change” scam it is the cowardly attempts to indoctrinate children, a ruse GW proponents employ throughout every school in the west.

As zealots and tyrants and totalitarians have done through out history when they have ideas that will not withstand logical scrutiny, they try to introduce them into the culture by indoctrinating the young and turning them against their parents.

Propagandists posing as educators abound, not only in Cuba and North Korea, but as the left have tightened their grip on education, throughout the Western world.

Here’s a recent example. Chilling to anyone with any sense of history and any knowledge of how tyranny comes upon us-

============================

Andrea Peyser

When did global warming turn into a forced religion?

My daughter came home from school recently with a spring in her step and a song on her lips. With no foreshadowing — or time to call an exorcist — out came this chilling refrain:

” . . . You can hear the warning — GLOBAL WARMING . . . ”

By the time her father and I removed our jaws from the floor, we had learned that:

A) All the kids had been coerced into singing this catchy ditty, which we called “The Warming Song,” at a concert for parents.

B) Further song lyrics scolded selfish adults (that would be us) for polluting our planet and causing a warming scourge that would, in no short order, kill all the polar bears and threaten the birds and bees.

C) There was no deprogramming session on the menu. And no arguing allowed.

The international “Climategate” scandal is now moving into its third week. And reaction from folks on the scientific and political left — or is that redundant? — who treat global warming as a cult in which naysayers must be crushed has been depressing:

Total denial.

Read more:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/net_result_sure_beats_nut_revolt_qafIP4m2M9TAty2eLxyz5M
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December 2, 2009 8:57am
Brian Smaller

I guess the deniers will continue their denial even as the sea is lapping at their doors.

Does that include Al Gore who brought a seafront condo in SF a few years back?
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December 2, 2009 8:58am
Lord Montrose

You don’t get it do you Luc Hansen.
Anything that anyone associated with the IPCC or CRU says is likely to be a lie.
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December 2, 2009 9:00am
Angus

Here’s an excellent insight into the pharisaical mind of the globalwarminista elite

Mark Steyn – Come Fry With Me

In order to save the planet from global roasting, it seems entirely reasonable to ask Mr. and Mrs. Joe Peasant to subordinate their freedom of movement to an annual “carbon allowance” preventing them flying hither and yon and devastating the environment. As Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, explains:

Hotel guests should have their electricity monitored; hefty aviation taxes should be introduced to deter people from flying; and iced water in restaurants should be curtailed, the world’s leading climate scientist has told the Observer.

Rajendra Pachauri? Hey, if you’re manning the VIP lounge at Heathrow, that name may ring a bell:

Dr Rajendra Pachauri flew at least 443,243 miles on IPCC business in this 19 month period. This business included honorary degree ceremonies, a book launch and a Brookings Institute dinner, the latter involving a flight of 3500 miles.

Wow. 443,243 miles. How many flying polar bears does Dr. Pachauri kill in an average quarter? Well, not to worry, he probably offsets his record-breaking ursocide with carbon credits from carbon billionaire Al Gore.

And in any case it’s okay to devastate the planet on IPCC business — plus the occasional cricket match:

So strong is his love for cricket that his colleagues recall the time the Nobel winner took a break during a seminar in New York and flew in to Delhi over the weekend to attend a practice session for a match before flying back. Again, he flew in for a day, just to play that match.

And why not? Aside from a slight increase in the risk of polar bears dropping from the skies onto stray Indian bowlers and wicket-keepers, where’s the harm?

P.S. I like the headline on Dr. Pachauri’s climate’n’cricket story: “Heat On Cricket Pitch Warms This Climate Change Laureate.” If you’re waiting for some journalist to ask him about the contradictions between his lifestyle and the one he wants the rest of us to submit to, that sound you hear is cricketers chirping.
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December 2, 2009 9:02am
dad4justice

Don’t worry my Lord, Luc is one big leftist lie.
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December 2, 2009 9:02am
Falafulu Fisi

Ms Hansen said…
I guess the deniers will continue their denial even as the sea is lapping at their doors.

The same thing can be said to IPCC worshipers , blind-believers , blind-faith warmists/practitioners , climate clairvoyants, climate pornographers and so forth, including you Ms Hansen. You will continue to hug those IPCC climate oracles and their predictions, even though there is huge inconsistencies between theories and observations.

From a proud denier (yeeha!!!).
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December 2, 2009 9:06am
stephen

Does that include Al Gore who brought a seafront condo in SF a few years back?

Oddly I remember someone pointing this out to me when I was in SF – the St Regis is not actually on the waterfront – 188 Minna St, google it.
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December 2, 2009 9:06am
Redbaiter

Thanks for that Angus- Steyn is one of the best writers and most accurate political commentators around.

Shame the treasonist socialist scum at the NZ Herald wouldn’t run his columns, but as we know, truth in journalism is a concept they would rather not play any part in.
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December 2, 2009 9:08am
Pete George

The latest research announcement on Antarctica is from the Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research (SCAR)
http://www.scar.org/about/

Sea level rise will double due to melting of Antarctica
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/6692899/Sea-level-rise-will-double-due-to-melting-of-Antarctica.html

The reports focus on 1.4 metres but that will no doubt be an estimate and will be further adjusted as more research and more observations are done. This is part of the ebb and flow of research of this nature.
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December 2, 2009 9:10am
Leonidas

Ahhh, Truth……

Truth, is a point of view.

Fact, and fact checking, on the other hand is something the msm now seem largely ignorant of, hence the term “Repeaters”.
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December 2, 2009 9:13am
Angus

No worries RB.
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December 2, 2009 9:14am
Redbaiter

Our resident Progressive propagandist as usual with nothing better to do and no better argument than to try and draw our attention to the words of the liars in the mainstream media he is in league with. Read that yesterday Petey, and discounted it immediately, because I had already read this-

http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/are-polar-ice-caps-really-melting-due-to-global-warming/
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December 2, 2009 9:18am
stephen

Though SF is kinda flat…
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December 2, 2009 9:19am
Pete George

Hmmm, the blog of Wintery Knight (…integrating Christian faith and knowledge in the public square) versus the Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research.
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December 2, 2009 9:25am
stephen

Haha, who thumbs-downed my SF comment?! I didn’t mean it’s boring, I meant it’s literally flat in some places. Oh, except where it’s not. Like where the condo is.
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December 2, 2009 9:29am
Brian Smaller

Or how about the IPCC line that the Himilayan glaciers will all be gone by 2035. Turns out they mis-typed 2350 when they took this from some Russian scientist’s study. Now we had TV3 runnign a story on how they will all be gone in 30 years just last night.
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December 2, 2009 9:31am
muppet

Surprise surprise – Hone stays. On this issue – Maori Party FAIL. National Party FAIL. I wonder who wins from this decision?
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December 2, 2009 9:34am
Redbaiter

Proof of the mainstream medias complicity in the global warming fraud-

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2397802/posts?page=31#31

They’re not there to shine light on deceit or bring us truth folks, they’re liars and deceivers and a major part of the problem.
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December 2, 2009 9:34am
Redbaiter

“Hmmm, the blog of Wintery Knight (…integrating Christian faith and knowledge in the public square) versus the Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research.”

See, this is a good example of why I have nothing but contempt for Progressives. Their whole modus operandi is firmly based on lies and deceit. The Wintery Knight is merely a source of information that has drawn information from other sources (The Australian and Watts Up With That- see here)

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/17/revealed-antarctic-ice-growing-not-shrinking/

yet rather than deal with the issues raised in this very informative and detailed report, the poster who misrepresents “Pete George” as his real name attempts to smear the source with an empty of content derisory sneer and no alternative information.

In other words, if you don’t agree, you don’t exist.

Keep it up you contemptible scumbag. Pretending we don’t exist is the very strategy that has allowed us to grow stronger.
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December 2, 2009 9:43am
LUCY

Hone is staying with the Maori Party. Hate to say I told you so but………….
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December 2, 2009 10:00am
Sonny Blount

Lucy Loves Hansen said:

I guess the deniers will continue their denial even as the sea is lapping at their doors.

Small problem there, it isn’t.

Had a look outside Lucy? How do you like the summer?
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December 2, 2009 10:09am
getstaffed

Anything that anyone associated with the IPCC or CRU says is likely to be a lie.

It’s interesting that defenders of the CRU fraudsters claim that CRU findings are corroborated by NOAA and NASA findings.

If this is the case then why CRU’s need for data manipulation and/or switching? There’d be authoritative support for the truth as CRU found it.

It this is not the case then why do NOAA and NASA finding agree? Are theirs manipulated to agree with CRU’s?
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December 2, 2009 11:02am
Pete George

Red, the “very informative and detailed report” you are referring to at Watts Up is dated April. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research findings have just been released, so you are comparing out of date opinion to scientific research reports just released. That is shoddy on your part at best, or it could be “lies and deceit”.
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December 2, 2009 11:14am
getstaffed

Love this from Phil Jones as he steps aside: “What is most important is that CRU continues its world leading research with as little interruption and diversion as possible”

To date, his ‘world leading’ research has been conducted with very little interruption, well out of public view and all dissenting voices sidelined. This has allowed their tribal scientific cabal to get away with agenda-driven perversion of the scientific method. They need a hefty dose of sunlight. If that feels like ‘interruption’ then I’m all for it.
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December 2, 2009 11:24am
Sonny Blount

Watts Up is dated April. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research findings have just been released, so you are comparing out of date opinion to scientific research reports just released.

Frigging retard.

Therefore you must agree if a contrary report is released tomorrow it must be the ‘up to date opinion’ by the virtue of your ‘release date’ system of merit.
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December 2, 2009 11:30am
Pete George

Sonny, the SCAR research isn’t definitive, it just adds weight to the accumulating evidence. If a credible scientific report came out tomorrow that contradicted it that would make a difference to the weight of evidence.

Red said he read that yesterday Petey, and discounted it immediately, because I had already read this-…referring to Wintery Knight which he says refers to Watts Up in April. If he chooses to ignore new science because it doesn’t fit his view it highlights his closed mind.
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December 2, 2009 11:46am
RightNow

Put It Away – get the kiwiblog filter for RIP from here http://ripwiki.pbworks.com/K%20RIPs
Then add it in to RIP (on the firefox toolbar select Tools>RIP Options>Import RIP and locate the kiwiblog RIP you downloaded)
Then you can paste in (or edit existing) XPATH such as
//li[cite[contains(.,’philu’)]]
//li[cite[a[contains(.,’billyborker’)]]]
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December 2, 2009 11:53am
malcolm

Phil, remember our chat the other day about water consumption in dairying?

The one where you tried to blacken NZ dairy farming by quoting the 200 litres of water per glass of milk number? And I said rubbish, that’s for countries that need to irrigate. Not NZ. And you said no it’s for NZ. But with Side Show Bob’s farm as an example we showed that his uses at most 5 litres/glass of milk at his gate. And you again said no, it’s definitely for NZ and from Brent Clothier (plant and food research soil scientist) in the Listener. So I said can you quote the whole paragraph and so you quoted just “it takes for instance, 200 litres of water..to produce a glass of milk..”. And I again asked you where he said that was for NZ? And you just said “no..he was definitely talking about new zealand..”.

Do you remember? Why didn’t you quote the whole paragraph? Was it because it showed that you’d been lying about it being applicable to NZ? From the Listener profile of Brent Clothier:

“It takes, for instance, 200 litres of water to produce a glass of milk – but not all water is equal – from a country with few water pressures, such as NZ that foot-print may be smaller than water-short Australia. As our export markets become increasingly green-aware, panel member Jacqualine Rowarth said Clothier is ‘doing the work in terms of carbon and water that will give NZ the competitive advantage..”

Even a cursory search of the internet shows referenced numbers of 1000:1 (water:milk) ratios for irrigated farming (so 200-300 litres per glass). NZ dairying is by-and-large not irrigated. One of the reasons that NZ is a low-cost dairy producer.

So Phil, like I said yesterday re the US states “..filing for bankruptcy..”. Don’t make stupid points with dumb and patently false assertions. If you stick to that rule, you may find that you can even debunk some of your own ideas. It’s a great discipline and keeps you from falling into dogmatic mental dead-ends.
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December 2, 2009 12:24pm
Put it away

Cheers Rightnow and Hurf, I’ll give it a spin when I get home to my own PC
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December 2, 2009 1:01pm
stephen

Malcolm, I dare you to post that on his blog 😀
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December 2, 2009 1:15pm
malcolm

That would be mean. Anyway, I’m not sure anyone reads whoar.co.nz.

Phil was just the first example I saw that day. Mostly I skip his horribly formatted comments, but as everyone was RIPing him I thought I would start reading them to see what the fuss was about. There’s plenty of bullshit thrown around to make a point, particularly on the GD. It’s not just Phil. I’m sure I do it from time to time. It takes vigilance to avoid believing your own bullshit.
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December 2, 2009 1:28pm
philu

“..“It takes, for instance, 200 litres of water to produce a glass of milk –..”

are you deeply confused malcom..

it dosen’t matter if ‘irrigated’ or not..

what i originally said was:

“..it takes 200 litres of water…to produce one glass of milk..”

where that water comes from is sorta relevant..

but not at all relevant to that fact:..

that it takes 200 litres of water..

to produce one glass of milk..

(what exactly are you failing to comprehend about that..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 2, 2009 1:33pm
philu

“..said Clothier is ‘doing the work in terms of carbon and water that will give NZ the competitive advantage..”..”

which i also said to you..(you dissembling prick..!..)

and at the time..i said that fact..of him working for the ‘gummint’..

gave his fact-call all the more credibilty/gravitas..

..(you dissembling prick..!..)

(to save you having to try and find the definition..’dissembling’ means lying/spreading false information..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 2, 2009 1:40pm
malcolm

OK Phil.

That wasn’t what you meant. And you know it. You were implying that NZ dairy farming is bad because it uses a lot of water. And you lied to make your point when questioned. If you were worried about rain water, why not get worried about Fiordland National Park – that ‘uses’ billions of litres of water a day.

Anyway, I can see you’re embarrassed to have been shown to be lying, so I will leave it at that.
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December 2, 2009 1:43pm
malcolm

..(you dissembling prick..!..)

Don’t get angry. You’ve just been caught bullshitting to make a slanderous point. It’s not the end of the world. Take it on the chin like a man. And go away and think over what I said about believing your own bullshit.
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December 2, 2009 1:50pm
philu

“..You were implying that NZ dairy farming is bad because it uses a lot of water..”

no..i was saying that all dairy’ ‘ is bad because it uses a lot of water’.

(that word again..?..’all’..

not a hint of ‘implying’..

quite definite..

hey listen malcom..!..it’s been great..!..eh..?

but really buddy..!

you are as thick as dogshit..

and it is very tiresome to have to multiple-walk you through simple facts..

so..

cheerio..!..eh..?

carry on..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 2, 2009 1:52pm
pentwig

phool,

you knuckle dragging fuckwit troll,

caught lying again,

twice in one day.

Put your drug addled pea brain into gear and sharpen up.
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December 2, 2009 1:54pm

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