General Debate 6 November 2009

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mickysavage

So Rodney used taxpayers’ money to pay for his and his girlfriend’s travel expenses to attend her brother’s wedding in London and Disneyland in California.

Perkbusted!
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November 6, 2009 8:33am
Chthoniid

The TGIF photo today is of a ‘toothier’ view of a large croc on the Mary River.

http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p934919605-5.jpg

Now, on to the coffee… enjoy the day.
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November 6, 2009 8:35am
Inventory2

I almost agree with you micky, which is both rare and worrying 🙂

I wonder if the wedding “just happened” to be at the same time as Rodney has already planned to be fact-finding, or if the fact-finding trip was engineered around other considerations. Whichever, it is not a good look for one who crusaded against MPs’ perks. And unlike those on the left who are calling for Hide’s head on a platter, it’s hardly, to quote Helen Clark, a “hanging offence”.
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November 6, 2009 8:39am
Steve

Fantastic Chthoniid. The students will be pleased.
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November 6, 2009 8:42am
MikeNZ

Yep Rodney shat on his own feet with this one.
Key is a shit too>
Don’t forget Mr $50m man can afford to pay for his wife whereas the other probably can’t.
And why should they, the rules allow it!

So let’s stop moaning and change the rules, increase their salaries and do away with the allowances and other troughing tools.
make all of parliamentary services subject to OIA and every cheque over $1000 available on the net.

maak Schoon
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November 6, 2009 8:54am
Pete George

it’s hardly a “hanging offence”

I agree it’s not a hanging offence in the way that statement was intended, but it is a hanging one’s head in shame and embarrassment sort of offence.

The best thing Hide could do now is front up and say that, yeah, that was a silly way to do things, I’ll pay back a portion of the girlfriends costs, I’ll learn from that and I’ll make sure I walk the talk from now on. That way he’ll regain some respect – if he keeps fobbing of any criticism the respect levels will drop more.
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November 6, 2009 8:58am
gravedodger

Although I am disappointed with the perception that Mr Hide’s antics portray, the disgrace to the memory of Micheal Joseph Savage is out of order.
Mr Hide is using a totally different set of rules of elegibility and until the bloody dopy socialists accept that TPF is convicted of fraud as an MP and more recently elected M P s are operating under different rules that do not contain the 90% travel option as a part of their remuneration and continue to be in denial of those facts they should be silent and risk be considered stupid rather than speaking and removing the doubt.
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November 6, 2009 9:01am
MikeNZ

hear hear

change the rules then complain.
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November 6, 2009 9:05am
Inventory2

Pete George – agree wholeheartedly. A bit of humilty and an apology from Rodney Hide should suffice on this occasion. One of my bosses in days gone by operated on the philosophy that everyone was entitled to make a mistake. He was however very tough on repeat offenders, i.e. those who did not view their mistake as a learning experience. Hide will need to be lily-white from this point forward.
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November 6, 2009 9:09am
Johnboy

We never got the full truth in the ‘Failing Boys’ thread. At least we are good at shagging. 🙂

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/6435176/kiwi-blokes-steer-clear-of-textbooks/
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November 6, 2009 9:11am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/7-diseases-that-big-juicy-steaks-could-give-you/

“..We know meat isn’t necessarily the most healthy dietary choice .. it could also be a fatal one.

More and more people are passing on meat for a wide variety of reasons.

For starters, it reduces your impact on the planet.

Some simply can’t bare the despicable factory farming industry in this country.

And the third weighing issue on the minds of the more than 2.8 percent of the U.S. population that considers themselves vegetarian ..

.. are health issues.

And studies show that there are plenty of them.

Sicknesses Associated With Eating Meat

1. Prostate Cancer

According to a study published in the Journal of Epidemiology, researchers examined the dietary habits of 175,313 middle-aged men and followed them for nine years.

They discovered that men who ate a diet heavy in red meat and processed meats were diagnosed with prostate cancer more often than men who ate little meat.

“HCAs, a family of mutagenic compounds, are produced during the cooking process of many animal products, including chicken, beef, pork, and fish,” the article said.

And this is not reserved for a well done steak.

The mutagens form when meat is cooked at a normal level .. and it is present in grilling, frying, or broiling.

It appears to grow worse .. as the meat is cooked longer..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 6, 2009 9:25am
Steve

Talk to the hand Phool. The weekend is close and it’s BBQ time rain or shine. Big fat New York cut Sirloin.
Stick your vegan views where the global warming sun don’t shine.
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November 6, 2009 9:38am
Rufus

Sure Phil.

What nonsense.

I eat meat that’s grown naturally, on a nice bit of outdoor farmland where the animals run around, eat grasses/weeds etc and live a good life.

You eat stuff produced in a factory from highly processed vegetable matter.

Where does your protein come from? Soy mostly. Where do you think Soy is grown Phil? Dustbowls of the US ring a bell?

Where do you get your essential vitamins from? B12? From a pill produced in a lab.

And I can say this as a former vegetarian.

Moderation is the key. Enjoy a little of everything.
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November 6, 2009 9:44am
Pete George

Good comments Rufus. It’s fine for vegetarians and vegans to choose to ram all sorts of plant matter and chemicals down their throats. But it gets a bit tiresome if they keep trying to ram their beliefs down other peoples throats.
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November 6, 2009 9:48am
Brian Smaller

Philu – he links to a post on how steaks are bad for you, while tucking into his soy faux-bacon or muesli and soy milk for breakky one assumes.

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/estrogenic-effects-of-soy

This article could explain why Philu and other vegans are so girly and wimpy.
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November 6, 2009 9:49am
Rufus

Some good reading for you Phil:

anything by the Weston A. Price Foundation and also a book called by Sally Fallon called Nourishing Traditions.

Certainly opened my eyes and got me eating meat, produced from a healthy animal on a healthy farm, in moderation again. Also got me interested in wholegrains and raw milk again.

It’s a good read Phil.
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November 6, 2009 9:50am
Ryan Sproull

Pete, is this not traditionally a forum for expressing opinions of what one thinks is good and proper?

It seems that these kinds of comments are reserved for those talking about vegetarianism, while those espousing the evils of taxes, cannabis, abortion, long or short prison sentences, etc., are accepted as par for the course. Is there something about vegetarian views in particular that elicits this kind of response?
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November 6, 2009 9:52am
Rufus

Hi Bian

As a vegetarian in my younger, foolish days, I used to eat a shit load of Soy. Then I started reading about the dangers of soy. No more tofu for me.

Tempeh and other fermented soy products in moderation, but forget soy milk and tofu.

I value my masculinity.
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November 6, 2009 9:52am
Murray

The parasite is worrying about what other people are eating. Considering everyone else is paying for his meals perhaps a slice of shut the hell up pie might be in order.
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November 6, 2009 9:53am
Luc Hansen

Glynne Dyer in this morning’s Herald posits that now is a good time for Obama to call it quits on the Afghanistan debacle.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10607498

Dyer is soundly grounded as a commentator – he is a historian as well as a political commentator, always a good combination – and his website archives all his previous columns; such transparency assures credibility as it is easy to browse his past columns and see how accurate his predictions are.

As an aside, Malalai Joya, a female MP in Afganistan, suspended when she objected to the assorted warlords and gangsters who make up the parliament, says that in 8 years of war fewer than 2000 Taliban but more than 8000 civilians have been killed. Such is the efficiency of modern war machines. More troops will mean the deaths of ever more innocents

Although the beltway in Washington has leaked that the decision to sent more troops has been taken, the risible election process has undone years of trying to convince the world that Karzai is not just a typical crooked quisling ruler. Support in the US for the war will fall further and this weakens Obama’s authority even further.

Obama emerged bloodied from this week’s elections in the US and this has further jeopardised his chances of getting a meaningful health insurance public option through Congress.

My view is that Obama will dither some more and then take the course of least resistance and send more troops (and make the Nobel Committee look even more foolish). As Dyer says, eventually that decision may define his presidency and cost him not only his legacy but also the next election.

Another one term president?
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November 6, 2009 9:55am
cha

CNN

At least seven people are dead and between 12 and 15 wounded in shootings at Fort Hood in Texas on Thursday, senior Pentagon official told CNN.
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November 6, 2009 10:02am
Brian Smaller

Luc – I suspect that as a lefty twit Obama doesn’t want to win a war in Afghanistan, even though he personally said it was THE WAR that America needed to fight and win when on the campaign trail. On the other hand, he doesn’t want to go down in hisotory as the American president who lost a war and ran away with his tail between his legs either. So, I suspect he will dither until he is not in office any more. Personally, I think that the West should get out of that war if there is no interest in winning it, and then carpet bomb the Taliban back to the 1st C AD (they are already at the 7th C so need to go back further) when they take power again.
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November 6, 2009 10:07am
malcolm

Phil, for all I know, you write the most erudite and interesting comments on Kiwiblog. But I can’t say, as I never read them. I never read them because the presentation is awkward and unreadable.

Why don’t you form complete sentences and group your ideas into paragraphs? Your ideas and views would reach a wider audience, as I’m sure I’m not the only one who skips your comments entirely because they don’t follow any accepted norms of effective communication.
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November 6, 2009 10:08am
Murray

The dems have never met a fight they didn’t want to run from.
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November 6, 2009 10:11am
Spam

Most websites ban link-whoring.
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November 6, 2009 10:22am
Angus

See, this is the inevitable outcome of political parties based on race, led by a vanguard of beefsteak radicals and race-pimps.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10607653
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November 6, 2009 10:32am
big bruv

I see that brown thug John Harawhira is at it again.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3037942/Harawira-email-attacks-white-man-bulls-t

I wonder what the co leaders of the Apartheid party will have to say about this and I wonder what Neville Key will do about this racist piece of shit.

My bet is they will do nothing at all.
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November 6, 2009 10:33am
Johnboy

He’s a real credit to his Mum is Hone. She must be very proud of him.
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November 6, 2009 10:37am
Murray

Can we say brown man bullshit?

Can we say brown motherfucker?

Just questions.

Because frankly I’m sick of this brown motherfuckers bullshit.
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November 6, 2009 10:41am
Angus

A little history of Harawira here:

http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2007/08/hone-harawira-beefsteak-radical.html
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November 6, 2009 10:48am
nickb

I await with bated breath for Hone to blame it on the white man’s racism.
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November 6, 2009 10:49am
philu

ah well..!..all yr own funerals..?..

eh..?

(and poor malcom..eh..?..suffering from paragraph-anxiety..as he does..)

and yes..of course i am the author of ..’ the most erudite and interesting comments on Kiwiblog..”

(you left out ‘funny’..)

and hey..!..that was only one of nine ways steak can kill you..

did you read the others..?

heart disease..

osteoporosis..

kidney stones..

pancreatic cancer..

food-borne diseases..

type 2 diabetes in women..

yum..!..eh..?

do any of those ring any bells for any of you..?

b.t.w…in the osteoporosis one is the line..

“..the less meat you eat in your life..the less you will suffer from osteoporosis..”

food for thought..eh..?

for all but the willfully ignorant..

(you know who you are..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 6, 2009 10:51am
Brian Smaller

Philu – let me see –
that list of potential problems if you eat meat, versus, growing breasts and having your nads fall off.

Pass me the BBQ sauce please.
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November 6, 2009 10:59am
Murray

Well don’t look at me Nick, I’m on a Maori roll when I bother to vote.
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November 6, 2009 11:04am
Jack5

Thank you Angus for your 10.48 link to the NewZeal archive on Hone Harawira.

One of Harawira’s more alarming comments there is:”Our fight for a better world will only be won . . . when the white man comes home.”

It sounds as though he wants everyone with a white skin out of New Zealand, and then, I suppose those who aren’t brown enough, too.

The voice of bro-partheid.
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November 6, 2009 11:11am
senzafine

It appears to grow worse .. as the meat is cooked longer..

Well. It’s lucky i like my fillet blue then, innit?
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November 6, 2009 11:16am
Murray M

Hone is only being picked on cause he’s a Mowree. Carter was only picked on cause he’s a gay. Rodders was only picked on cause he’s a hetero.
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November 6, 2009 11:17am
nickb

Oh you are all just racist.
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November 6, 2009 11:19am
side show bob

Why is old Phil worried about prostrate cancer, it’s not like he uses his. Lucky you weren’t around for tea last night Phil, stuffed potatoes, fillet steak, gravy, washed down with a large class of milk out of the vat. Guess I’m doomed, so sad never mind.
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November 6, 2009 11:21am
dime

opps. forgot to post this press release yesterday:

On November 5, 1955, Dr. Emmett Lathrop Brown hit his head on the side of a bathroom sink. As his headache faded, an image appeared, an idea that would finally make time travel possible: the flux capacitor.

While the tools were invented that day, it took until October 25, 1985 for Doc Brown to put together all the parts for a time traveling automobile. Then finally, at 1:21 a.m. on that fateful autumn day he successfully pulled off the first first temporal displacement.

It was a great inventing process that began all those years ago, so let’s take a moment to think of our fondest memories of Doc Brown, his Delorean DMC-12, and his time traveling companion, Martin McFly.
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November 6, 2009 11:23am
Luc Hansen

Brian @ 10.07

History shows your labels are pretty well meaningless in the US. It was a Republican president who ordered the troops in Vietnam to scurry home – peace with honour, remember? Left and right don’t really exist in the US in any meaningful sense: it’s just extreme right and marginally extremer right. Right? 😉

While we agree that Obama should withdraw, as in Algeria and Vietnam, the aftermath won’t be pretty but at least they will eventually arrive at their own solution to their troubles. I fail to see the point of the genocidal carpet bombing you advocate, unless it is feed your own primitive bloodlust. Pakistan is in no danger of being overrun by Taliban, and in fact, the Taliban is a creation of Pakistan and is only at war with the Pakistani army because the US has forced the army into attacking them. There is a world of difference between Taliban and the extremist Muslims who are a real danger to everybody, yet we continue to pursue policies that effectively act as a recruitment drive for those groups.

I am always amazed at the lack of introspection in people who advocate genocidal policies while forever comparing anyone and everyone to Hitler. The fact is the majority of bloggers here would have joined the Nazi Party with alacrity.
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November 6, 2009 11:38am
Jack5

Bad day for the bro’s. Witi Ihimaera has been caught with his hand in the books. Rather sad, because he’s not a bad writer at all and doesn’t need to do this.

We are talking about Ihimaera, writer of Whale Rider, winner of many book awards from the white, liberal chattering class, hero of the relatively new Maori written culture, and an honorary Ph.D. He has taught aspiring writers in classes. Of this, in an interview in Salient (8 March 2004) he said: “…I’m also trying to teach my students to write for the long haul, for a career. Not just to write a book, but to write a career. That means also teaching them about contracts, about publicity. I show them contracts…”

Ihimaera has said he wrote Whale Rider in three weeks. Is it charitable to wonder whether the problem is that he works too quickly and doesn’t check sources etc?

Even so, the latest book with the plagiarised passages is being withdrawn from sale, which costs the publisher heaps, so it cannot be trivial.

The plagiarism story link:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10607651
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November 6, 2009 11:41am
Scorpio

“do you believe that white man bullsh** too do you?
“White motherf***ers have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bullsh**.”

If this is a genuine quote, then Hone Harawira should resign from parliament. He does not just represent ‘his people’. As an MP, he is responsible to and for the whole country. His attitude is both racist and completely unreal.

He has to go. We’ve put enough of our tax dollars towards his upkeep already.
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November 6, 2009 11:53am
big bruv

Fuck me!

I have always thought that Neville Key is gutless but this is just about the last straw!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3037942/PM-Harawiras-white-tirade-deeply-offensive/

Neville has said that he thinks John Harawhira’s comment are “deeply offensive”, of course most Kiwi’s would agree with him, however, he (Key) then goes on to display an even more gutless (and frankly evil) side by saying that he will leave it to the Mowree party to deal with him.

Well Neville, what on earth thinks that the Apartheid party will deal with this?, in their entire political life the Mowree party have shown that they are more than happy to let John Harawhira make these types of statement, the reality is that Harawhira only says what the rest of the Apartheid party thinks.

Key should have made it crystal clear that unless John Harawhira is sacked he will end the coalition with the Apartheid party, for Key to demand anything less will only confirm what many of us think, that Key will do anything and put up with anything just as long as he stays in power.
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November 6, 2009 11:54am
Fisiani

You saw it here first.

The Movie Avatar being released next month is not just a sci-fi tour de force special effects movie. It is also an elaborate allegory about the US in Iraq. Watch it with this in mind and appreciate the characters in a new light.
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November 6, 2009 11:54am
voice of reason

Well well, Plunket lost his case – ERA decides in favour of RNZ
ADC – there you go – one for the other side

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10607295
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November 6, 2009 12:06pm
Murray

If nothing else Hawawhira has put some perspective on Rodneys foot in mouth.

Could be Hawawhira has crapped in his own bed once too often this time.
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November 6, 2009 12:09pm
Lance

Luc scribbled
“The fact is the majority of bloggers here would have joined the Nazi Party with alacrity.”

If you can’t tell shit from clay stay over at the standard.

The Nazi’s were extreme socalist control freaks who stated capitalism is a Jewish conspiracy… the exact opposite of everything I stand for.

Luc you are a dick!
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November 6, 2009 12:11pm
cha

@Jack5

Tasman’s Lay?.
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November 6, 2009 12:25pm
starboard

Take a look at harawiras family..his mother titiwhai is a racist..remember her from the days of Carrington Hospital…she got in the shit for her separate maori clinic where she used to beat the fuck out of patients…..and johns bro Arthur who was a convicted armed robber in the 80’s…john was also aligned with sharples , syd jackson , annette sykes , and all the other white haters from the 80’s…remember that bitch on the marae in Auckland who said ” kill a white and die a hero “…they are all of the same ilk and a few have penetrated Parliament !!!! Show some balls JK…Im fuckin deeply offended by this racist…do something about it.
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November 6, 2009 12:33pm
Banana Llama

I say Leave Hone in parliament hell support him with everything you can, we are suppose to be getting a referendum on Maori seats soon.
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November 6, 2009 12:37pm
Murray M

Let us not forget Pita telling the black power and mungies to stop killing each other and turn their attentions on whitey.
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November 6, 2009 12:41pm
Luc Hansen

Lance @ 12.11pm

I think you over-simplify the politics of the Nazis, however I was referring to the mob rule hysteria often apparent on this site rather than any faux-ideology which was really just a cover for totalitariansim and ethnic cleansing.

It’s interesting that this is your only quibble with my post. However, it’s a good lesson for me once again to not stoop to unnecessarily inflammatory remarks so thank you for reminding me about this failing. It just goes to show that it’s easier to lower to the level of the majority than to maintain a moral high ground.

Now directing remarks to the general reader, as regards Hone, while his colourful language distracts from his message, it’s hard to see any factual errors and isn’t it better that we know the true depth of feeling that still exists within much of Maoridom?

I don’t many Tuhoe would have a problem with Hone’s statement!
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November 6, 2009 12:59pm
Luc Hansen

Bloggers interested in climate change science should tune into to Checkpoint this afternoon 5.00pm RNZ for an interview with NASA scientist James Hansen (no relation). Or visit the website for a replay.

Courtesy of Wiki: Hansen is best known for his research in the field of climatology, his testimony on climate change to congressional committees in 1988 that helped raise broad awareness of global warming, and his advocacy of action to limit the impacts of climate change.

Especially valuable for you ANTHROPOGENIC CLIMATE CHANGE DENIERS!

Know thine enemy 🙂
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November 6, 2009 1:09pm
Johnboy

This is what happens when you accept muslim shit into your community. Time they were all sent to meet allah and the virgins.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/3038050/Fort-Hood-shooting-12-dead
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November 6, 2009 1:15pm
stephen

Everyone knows that only Muslims go on killing sprees in America, everyone else just stays home and bakes apple pie when they’re feelin’ anger-y.

Who should be assigned to sending all the muslims to allah?
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November 6, 2009 1:20pm
Johnboy

‘Who should be assigned to sending all the muslims to allah?’

Curtis Lemay or General Pershing would be my choice to sort them out but unfortunately they are no longer with us. Anyone not named Mohamad or similar would be a starter, any one named Cohen would be a shoo in.
Of course the Cohens of this world are already doing sterling service in this area so we can’t expect them to carry the can forever without help.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/3033446/Israel-seizes-arms-ship
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November 6, 2009 1:47pm
Chthoniid

@Steve

Fantastic Chthoniid. The students will be pleased.

Thanks- not sure how happy students are at the moment with exams, but at least they’re still talking to me 🙂
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November 6, 2009 1:48pm
Inventory2

Sheesh – the Standard is in damage control mode today. I’ve just copped a six-month ban for describing “Eddie” as a Labour Party staffer.

I only mentioned the connection, because Eddie had labelled the current government as corrupt, which I thought was a bit rich coming from someone with his/her pedigree. I use the term “his/her”, because I understand that there is not one single Eddie, but that more than one person using that handle. I guess that, and their over-reaction suggests that free speech is not the dpmain of the Left.
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November 6, 2009 2:52pm
Johnboy

It was probably the female Eddie you got today and she’s having her period IV2. 🙂
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November 6, 2009 2:57pm
Inventory2

Johnboy – do you mean Jenny M?

Oh, interestingly, none of their “regulars” seems to have a problem with Hone Harawira’s “white motherf**kers” comment – it seems that Rodney Hide’s spending is far more important than racism. 😉
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November 6, 2009 3:01pm
Johnboy

I use the word female in the broadest possible way when speaking of lefties/melons to signify those who would just fail a male sex test. The opposite of course applies to lefty/melon pseudo males.
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November 6, 2009 3:07pm
Luc Hansen

Willie J on Radio Live just said to a caller “We all know what he said is true, it’s just the way he said it is offensive!” 🙂

They are also discussing whether Hone was referring to the colonisation of New Zealand or the broader of European colonialism in general. Either way, it’s just a pity we don’t prioritise discussing these points and not worry about some naughty language in a private
context.
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November 6, 2009 4:00pm
Luc Hansen

Evidently the Muslim psychiatrist is still alive and stable.
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November 6, 2009 4:01pm
Luc Hansen

Moral constructs are funny things.

I heard Obama commiserating with the families of the US soldiers killed in their base, as he should, yet the same man appears to think nothing of ordering drone strikes that more often than not actually don’t get the man they are after but incinerate any number of innocent bystanders.

And above, the definitely Islamophobic and possibly demented johnboy seems to be advocating the form of genocide we European became very adept at.

And no doubt they both consider themselves to be highly moral.

I guess it just goes to show that one man’s morality is anothers immorality.
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November 6, 2009 4:17pm
Banana Llama

Wille J should speak for himself and remember that every time a finger is pointed at someone three more are pointing backwards.
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November 6, 2009 4:20pm
Sector 7g

I believe they will find this shooting in Texas to be alot bigger than a “crazy soldier” going off.
Strange to think that Australian Muslims had been found guilty just recently in planning the exact same thing.
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November 6, 2009 5:04pm
Jack5

Re Luc Hansen’s 4.17 post.

Under your argument Luc, it was immoral for NZers to commiserate with families who lost sons in World War 2 in the RAF, because German civilians were dying under RAF bombs, too.

Bloody rubbish. Pacifists are the only people who can reasonable argue there is no moral war, yet they probably cannot survive or exist in a society which does not protect them with either moral war or the potential to make moral war (that is war of self-defence).

I bet you wouldn’t be talking Western-ophobe about the terrorist attacks on Manhattan and Washington or on the subways and buses of London.

And as for your indignation about drone bombs kill bystanders, dare you suggest that suicide bombers don’t kill bystanders?

The moral course for today’s Pacificists is to front up to Al Qaeda in the Khyber Pass region with hives and books on honey harvesting, and persuade the terrorists to become men of peace.

The relativist argument against any overarching moralityexisting is weak. Nearly every major religion has at base the golden rule – do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
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November 6, 2009 5:17pm
Johnboy

I really admire Air Marshall Sir Arthur Harris even if he did look a lot like Captain Mainwaring.
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November 6, 2009 6:39pm
Hurf Durf

One of the most dangerous, disgusting fallacies being plugged by the International Left is the idea that the Taliban is a “national liberation” movement, akin to the VC and arseholes in Algeria, to give the Islamist thugs they back some semblance of legitimacy. Gwen Dire has always been wrong and he is wrong on Afghanistan.

Also, lest we forget, twenty years ago most mainstream journalists were on the side of communism.
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November 6, 2009 9:17pm
Luc Hansen

Damn, Jack, so sorry I been busy with domestic chores. I do hope you return.

I specifically said, did I not, that I approved Obama offering his sympathies to the families of the mass murderer? It’s a tragedy for them all. But there is no need to extrapolate to any other conflict and set up a straw man argument. Classic fallacious argumentation.

I’m not quite sure what to take out of your next paragraph, except that obviously the perpetrators of those attacks had an abiding hatred of western policies and actions somewhere. Westernophobic is not a bad way to express it, except that we do tend to fuel the phobia

No, suicide bombers do not kill bystanders. There are no bystanders in those attacks. Everybody is a target. And just because they do it, should we also deploy suicide bombers? Oh, hang on, we don’t need to; we’ve got drones.

As regards Al Qaeda, have you missed the briefing to Obama that Al Qaeda is all but destroyed in Afghanistan? Do you want to carry on killing thousand of civilians, people just like you and I, just in case we missed a few? And as it is a terrorist organisation it is not in need of a territorial base anyway, and can’t actually do a lot more damage because we have lifted our game in detecting these extremists.

That war now is against the Taliban, a nationalist, religious fundamentalist movement which actually mirrors a large segment of the American population. It cannot be destroyed because it is now the official resistance movement to western occupation. Even you and I would support it, in all likelihood, if we were Afghans.

Take a look at the transcript of an interview with a female Afghan MP

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/10/28/a_woman_among_warlords_afghan_democracy

I agree the golden rule is omnipresent, and not just amongst religions, depending on your dividing line between religion and philosophy, if there is one, but it is basically honoured in the breach (the modern, not the Shakespearean, sense).
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November 6, 2009 9:34pm
Luc Hansen

Hurf

me old mate

can you please do a chapter and verse on when Dyer has been wrong.

I agree he is wrong at times, but not that often so as to discredit him. Can you just do us all a favour and honour us with some evidence for your point of view?
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November 6, 2009 9:38pm
Hurf Durf

It cannot be destroyed because it is now the official resistance movement to western occupation.

Just like how al-Sadr was glorified by the left, while they were trying to turn Iraq into another Vietnam. Thank fuck for the Surge and Awakenings.

should we also deploy suicide bombers? Oh, hang on, we don’t need to; we’ve got drones.

That war now is against the Taliban, a nationalist, religious fundamentalist movement which actually mirrors a large segment of the American population.

Congratulations. You’ve managed to take retarded moral equivilency to bizarre new heights of idiocy. I feel sorry for your kid.
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November 6, 2009 9:41pm
Angus

“That war now is against the Taliban, a nationalist, religious fundamentalist movement which actually mirrors a large segment of the American population.”

Are you an objectionable arsehole, or just a semi-elaborate piss take?
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November 6, 2009 9:50pm
Luc Hansen

Fucken hell. Three minutes for that reply! You’re a motherfucking legend!

O for Awesome!

Seriously now, in my humble opinion, the surge etc is just delaying the time when all those factions repressed under Saddam finally let loose, while the Yanks cower in their bases. It ain’t long to go.

The only way to do these wars effectively is to go in boots and all, let’s say in Iraq about 500,000 troops and put soldiers on every street corner, terrify and/or pay the general population to inform on the slightest dissent (or just get someone killed for parking in your spot) and, these days, put them on welfare.

Over time, this could be effective. But you seem to miss the point that the US has lost in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and it’s only a matter of time before they get driven out of both. It’s the price one pays for democracy – we like the idea of “good” wars, but not the bill!

And an example of really bizarre moral equivalency is that of comparing the democratic State of Israel to the terrorist organisation, Hamas. But I will post on that over the weekend.

It’s a shame you can’t do coherent posts with at least an appearance of considered reasoning – you present challenging views but are either unwilling or unable to back them up with even a semblance of evidence.
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November 6, 2009 10:01pm
Luc Hansen

Angus

Don’t you watch Fox News? 🙂
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November 6, 2009 10:03pm
getstaffed

Climate change(tm) nee Global Warming(tm) : “The Science is Settled”

Well, we know it isn’t, so time for a different slogan. How about:-

The Science is Suspicious
The Science is Scurrilous
The Science is Stupid
The Science is Suspicious
The Science is Scam-worthy
.. or just ..
The Science isn’t
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November 6, 2009 10:06pm
Luc Hansen

Or try

The science is a theory

Theories are valid until proved wrong

The science of anthropogenic climate change has not been proven wrong, yet.
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November 6, 2009 10:10pm
Haiku Dave

barack received a
hospital pass from george and
is being lined up
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November 6, 2009 10:12pm
Hurf Durf

the US has lost in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and it’s only a matter of time before they get driven out of both.

You ignorant clown. Iraq is more or less won, the Surge saw to that. Withdrawal is under way, started in the last year of Bush’s Presidency and continued to the letter by Obama (probably the only good thing he’s done this year).

If Afghanistan is lost, it will be due to Obama’s dithering vis-a-vis future Afghan strategy. Britain is not going to allow more of its soldiers to die to prop him up, especially when you consider the near-collapse of US-UK relations on Obama’s part. NATO as a whole is not going to do much further without a significant sign that the US is committed. The strategy I’ve heard that will be implemented (let the rural areas be taken over, hide in the cities and wait to die – Protected Hamlet Strategy v2.0) will not work. Such a tragedy. Such a frustrating waste of time. But then, what’s to be expected from the spectrum that compared Afghanistan to Vietnam a month after it started.

But I will post on that over the weekend.

Please, take your time.
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November 6, 2009 10:21pm
Luc Hansen

Barack campaigned on
expanding the Afghan war
and should now resile
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November 6, 2009 10:23pm
Luc Hansen

As regards Iraq, lets wait and see. The problem with surges is that all looks good when it’s flowing, but the landscape changes when it ebbs.

I completely agree with your assessment of the Petraeus strategy: the Russians tried that and failed. The comparison with Vietnam was always partially justified on the grounds that Afghanistan was always a graveyard for empires, and the antidote to that – massive troop presence – was and is unaffordable, financially and politically.

Yes, I will take my time, but I think it’s important to present the missing truth.
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November 6, 2009 10:37pm
Jack5

Re Luc Hansen’s 9.34 post…

Wasn’t a straw man argument Luc; there was no intention to draw your attention away to another issue. It just showed the flawed structure of your own argument. (Of course another leftist poster slobbered sarcastic praise for “Bomber” Harris, not caring this puts him in sympathy with Britain’s new fascists.)

The Afghan woman MP, whose interview you linked to, seems to be in a nihilistic corner, though I sympathise with her aspirations for Afghan women. If America and its Allies pull out, and the Taliban and the warlords rule, what hope is there for these women. The lady can see the problems, but offers no solution. What would you suggest to help her? Sending Keith Locke (who backed the Soviet occupation) and the Auckland lefties to run a big demo?

The way to win, as the British found a century and a half ago after three failed attempts at conquering, is to buy off the Afghan warlords. Much cheaper than fighting them. However, that means the light of hope will go out for millions of Afghan women, and for the Afghan parents who want a future for their kids.

Tell us how you would bring hope to the Afghan people, without reverting to the rule of warlords and the Taleban, who whipped women who showed their ankles, bulldozed walls on homosexuals, and used sports fields for executions (though they at least stopped warlords kidnapping boys for their male harems).

Luc, you don’t sound like someone who believes who can pray successfully for peace. So what is your bloody answer?
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November 6, 2009 10:50pm
sbk

Getstaffed ..yep..Chaos..a butterfly flaps its wings..the Greens flap theirs..a call to arms..save Gaia..oops..chaos
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November 6, 2009 11:02pm
Murray

Which green party employee is this Hansen dickwad the latest incarnation of DPF?
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November 7, 2009 10:29am

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