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November 28, 2009 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 28 November 2009

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General Debate

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Michael E

Garth McVicar is a decent person. I don’t support all of his views, but he does have significant backing in NZ. The problem he faces is not that he is political, it is the solutions needed are necessarily political. He can’t imprison anyone lawfully for any longer than the sentence given,

Similarly groups like Greenpeace will not be able to be Registered Charities as they focus on political action, not environmental projects like groups like Karori Wildlife Sanctury or Keep NZ Beautiful.
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November 28, 2009 1:31pm
Chicken Little

Luc – please look up juggernaut at dictionary.com.

It can’t be put back in the box Luc, no matter how many links you post here of people sticking their fingers in their ears and going ‘lalalalalala’, you nor anyone can put it back in box.
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November 28, 2009 1:35pm
Say Goodbye to Hollywood

Fuck, you’re slow learner Luc.

The public has every reason to ask why they felt the need to rig the game if their science is as indisputable as they claim.
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November 28, 2009 1:37pm
Bok2

So Luc as an example of how despised these people are you hold up ???? an alarmist blog that has more skeptic comments than AGW comments? That is like wanting to find out scientifically if America is a bad place and you do that by asking Osama Ben Laden.
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November 28, 2009 1:39pm
Luc Hansen

Is this another example of deniers’ lies?

# Chicken Little (555) Vote: Add rating 11 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 27th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

Luc, my little friend – I repeat – REAL CLIMATE HAVE TURNED THEIR COMMENTS OFF – I WONDER WHY?

Sheeeesh, like trying to bath a cat.
**********************
A quick check on Real Climate’s second “email” thread (CRU Hack on their site) reveals the number of comments has increased form 79s yesterday to 814 today. It’s not turned off. I wonder if Chicken is confusing RC with the CRU?

Now, Chicken is keen on tying me up doing research for him that he is going to reject out of hand, anyway, so Chicken, I politely decline your invitation to be so occupied but do suggest you question Real Climate directly on their science, by all means. If you don’t keep it reasonably polite, it won’t make it through the moderation process.

And as I have demonstrated, their are plenty of places to visit with rational articles on the emails. Now the dust is settling, the overall effect of the emails released actually paints a group of scientists dedicated to scientific truth.

Why have the hackers only released only 1000 odd emails out of many thousands? Well, one explanation is maybe because the rest can’t be twisted out of context and show the scientists simply doing their job in an overwhelmingly collegial and honest atmosphere.

Saying for the day: Sanity cannot be imposed on people
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November 28, 2009 1:57pm
reid

Luc’s just desperately trying not to look like a complete fool. You can’t blame him, because he’s just realised that no-one with a 3-digit IQ buys AGW and he’s either got to do a complete flip-flop which lefties find hard to do, or pretend that the “science” really does have legs, lest we conclude that, like all warmaholics, he’s a complete idiot.

Isn’t that right, Luc?
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November 28, 2009 2:05pm
malcolm

he’s just realised that no-one with a 3-digit IQ buys AGW..

Or they’ve just given discussing it on internet forums.

Reid, did you hear the Kim Hill interview with Richard Cage: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/20091121
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November 28, 2009 2:25pm
side show bob

Shit Luc, just being over reading the comments posted concerning the chief snake oil salesman’s latest rantings. The man’s getting the shit kicked out of him. Your fantasies of the NWO and unbridled socialism is in it’s death throes, Gore and his fallow fucktards are getting their arses handed to them on a plate. Carbonhargen will be a glorified dog and pony show, the dream is over Luc, better go out and buy some more tin foil to wrap you head in.
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November 28, 2009 2:35pm
MikeNZ

Kaya
When I was a teen I read The Clowns of God by Morris West which pretty much sorts people out according to their worth.

I came to a realisation about disablement and our attitudes when I spoke to some one who’s body had degenerated so that even I (to my shame) had labeled them in my own mind.
On spending time with them it became apparent that they were a fully functioning person with intelligence and a sense of humour inside a vehicle that didn’t respond to their requests and I had to reflect on what it must be like for them as a whole person (not physical) inside a non responsive body.

It was a growing point for me and I have thought often on other peoples disabilities and the so called normal people.
even more so when I read articles on people in comas and think on the last day when we all kneel before whatever God we have worshipped in our hearts, whatever that/who may be.
Even if it is ourselves 🙂

have a great day
Mike
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November 28, 2009 2:36pm
reid

Yes I did malcolm, and I made a reference to it on the 911 thread we had here last week.
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November 28, 2009 2:42pm
philu

“..because the skinny underfed little weed..”

i guess it’s all relative..when you are clinically obese/have to get someone else to wipe yr arse….eh bok 2..?

hey..!..maybe those whales were calling you to join them..?

had you thought of that..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 28, 2009 2:48pm
malcolm

Kim Hill is crap at interviewing anyone on anything technical. And she was especially crap during that interview. But it’s still interesting to hear Richard Gage.
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November 28, 2009 2:50pm
Chthoniid

@Kaya

Chthoniid – I created that album for Borker’s benefit, to hopefully let him see that things aren’t always as clear cut as he imagines. Taken from a couple of different albums.

I liked the way you used the tree trunks to frame your daughter, and had her posed turned slightly and leaning forward.

Downs Syndrome kids are often the happiest children you can run into, so they do make good photographic subjects :). if the capacity to enjoy life counts for anything, then Downs Syndrome kids deserve to have their chance. Anyway, raising children with disabilities is one of the toughest assignments you can take on. So you have my respect.

Alas, there are also the kids you watch with incurable, terminal conditions, hurtling towards their premature death. They’re harder to photograph.
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November 28, 2009 2:58pm
Chthoniid

@ Bok2

welcome back.

Chthoiid I just spent a week in the Hauraki gulf. Had pods of orca visiting us on two ocassions. they hung around for up to an hour each time. as close as 10 meters. They were hunting stingrays in issie bay and then out around the back of Waiheke.

I only had the iphone to take shots with.

Ouch, that’s not really a scene designed for the iphone.

I think the missed opportunity that rankles the most for me, is seeing a Florida panther (in Florida naturally) and not having a camera to take the photo. These days, a decent (SLR) camera goes with me almost everywhere.
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November 28, 2009 3:03pm
Inventory2

Bewdy – Mohammed Yousuf out – the Pakistanis are 94-4 chasing 250
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November 28, 2009 3:23pm
Owen McShane

This recent post of mine has gained traction around the world. Don’t expect to see it in the media here.

The Climate Research Unit (CRU) E-mails Indicate the Emergence of ‘Tribal Science’.

Is this an Unexpected Outcome of the Internet?

During his last years, the late Aaron Wildavsky, then Dean of the School of Public Policy at UC Berkeley, became more and more interested in the role of group ‘culture’ in shaping social behaviour. One of his observations was that the more the individual is incorporated into a bonded unit, the more the individual’s choice is subject to group determination.
Aaron was generally regarded as ‘the father of Public Policy’ and in this group of books and papers he was challenging the ‘rational man’ model of decision-making. He was not denying the importance of reason and scientific method, but was emphasising that human behaviour is also modified by strongly held beliefs and traditions, and in particular, by group loyalties.

I suspect if Aaron were still alive he would be setting a bunch of his graduate students onto this episode of the leaked Climate Research Unit emails as a textbook example of how a ‘culture of group belief’ can impact on the behaviour of the supposedly rational and impartial people who are presumed to occupy the scientific community.

These emails may be an early demonstration of one of the downsides of the internet, and of email in particular.

The rapid and prolific communication enabled by email certainly promotes the free and widespread sharing of information and knowhow.

But the same ease of communication may well be promoting the development of inward-looking and intolerant tribal cultures that can seriously undermine the long established disciplines and traditions of the scientific community.

Scientists have always been passionate about their theories. Dawkins, Teller, Feynman, Pinker, Gould and Gliek are hardly famous for their lack of commitment to their beliefs.

But prior to the internet, such scientists have tended to be passionate individuals working at their desks, within their own studies, and sharing their ideas with suitably sceptical colleagues and graduate students.

Fifteen years ago I presented a paper to the QUEST and Associates AGM in Florida, on how the internet would promote what I called ‘Tribal Marketing’.

The release of the CRU emails suggests that sadly the internet has now promoted the development of ‘Tribal Science’.

Certainly the key players, as revealed in this collection of leaked emails, have been behaving like members of a fervent and passionate tribe – defending their territory, shaping evidence to support their beliefs, and waging war on outsiders.

Wildavsky would have been the first to point out that there is no need to call on conspiracy theory, or financial incentives, to explain this tribal behaviour; just the power of the culture of the group.

The CRU team and their internet colleagues had taken on the intolerant behaviour and intemperate language of the fervent tribes that build up around the more extremist blog sites on the Internet.

Maybe the Royal Society and similar organisations will need to develop a new set of protocols and charters to deal with this new phenomenon.
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November 28, 2009 3:26pm
billyborker

Fletch (638) 6 1 Says:

November 28th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
kaya, thanks for sharing the pic of your beautiful daughter. What is scary is that the Govt has a new screening programme for unborn children with Down Syndrome. I remember seeing a TV programme about a woman with a Down Syndrome child who had to make the decision when she found out that her child was going to be born with DS.

She decided to have it, and she mentioned that the child had brought such joy to their family; DS children, she said, are known to be very affectionate. After that she actually adopted another two DS children I think.

There is a simple test that has the potential to reduce in the incidence of Downs births by around 50%. Why shouldn’t it be used?

If there was a treatment we could use to INCREASE Downs births by 50%, do you think we should use that so we’d have more Affectionate Downs kiddies?

All life is precious.

That’s not the evidence I see before my eyes.
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November 28, 2009 3:41pm
Leonidas

You’re a fuckin heartless bastard Borker, I pray to God that you get to experience life in a less than “optimal” fashion.
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November 28, 2009 4:05pm
billyborker

what’s heartless about wanting to reduce suffering?
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November 28, 2009 4:09pm
Andrew W

Owen, I think your suggestion is a load of bollocks designed to advance your organisations agenda of questioning the mainstream view on AGW.

The internet is a form of communications that, like other advances in communications before it, improves the flow of information and the understanding between what would otherwise be disparate groups.
The development of communications has lead to what we call the global village, we recognise that it is the regimes that do not want their people to understand the rest of the world who work to suppress internet access.

All through cyberspace we have blogs such as this one where people of differing views from the whole world can and do interact, in the short term this may not lead to a heck of a lot of minds being changed, but for some of us it at least leads to a recognition that even those we most vehemently disagree with usually have to them at least, good reasons for their views, that they are genuine in their views.

You’re suggesting that without the web, cliques wouldn’t form, but cliques have always existed.
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November 28, 2009 4:10pm
Leonidas

In by doing so you deny them the chance to experience happiness and fulfillment, which they are capable of.

It has been my privilege to meet several DS people, and suffering would never apply as a descriptor.

Try again you heartless bastard.
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November 28, 2009 4:15pm
Andrew W

“The CRU team and their internet colleagues had taken on the intolerant behaviour and intemperate language of the fervent tribes that build up around the more extremist blog sites on the Internet.”

Comparing the CRU emails to the intolerant behaviour and intemperate language of extremist blog sites is just bloody ridiculous. Haven’t you read any of Redbaiter’s and D4J’s comments? and I hope you don’t regard kiwiblog as an extremist blog site.
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November 28, 2009 4:17pm
philu

climatechange denial 2.0 there..

eh mcshane..?

you incorrigible old huckster..!..eh..?

are you still being paid for your climate-change-denial ‘work’..?

or is this just (attempted) arse-covering..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 28, 2009 4:41pm
peanut

billyborker says “Kaya, why the fuck would I waste my time with pictures of retards?”

David Farrar, I have seen you give demerit points and comments for far less offensive blog entries.

I find this comment disgusting and appalling. There are many people in this world who have different issues and problems and the substance of a civilised world is to accept people for who they are, not condemn them because they are different.

You have been in Israel, learned of their issues, and I would have thought the least you could have done was to censure this blogger for his hurtful, cruel comments. You do have that ability and it is your blog site.
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November 28, 2009 4:44pm
side show bob

Phool I’m surprised they let you out in the weekends, damn health cuts.
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November 28, 2009 4:50pm
Rex Widerstrom

@billyborker

I start off reading this thread and your comment on McVicar having to spread his bitterness and prejudice in his own time rather than with the taxpayers’ subsidy he presently enjoys and prepare to write a comment commending you.

Then I read your comments on kaya’s daughter and discover that your bitterness and prejudice runs far deeper than does McVicar’s, and it’s aimed at the most helpless and deserving amongst us.

I would get angry, but in truth I suspect you are simply one of those people who likes to draw attention to themselves through outraging others with absurd and deliberately provocative Tourettes-like outbursts, akin to a naughty child yelling an obscenity in a shopping centre or Micael Lhaws writing a column.
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November 28, 2009 4:53pm
philu

‘..Micael Lhaw..”

heh..!

and um..!..scanner dropped a ‘house niggers’ a couple of posts later..that’s not being provocative..

he/she is just racist scum..

and..

..have you seen what these scumbags say/allege about my children..?

the ‘outrage’ around these parts is selective/ideological in nature..

(and it was a good comment/summary about mcvicar..

..not a good comment about kayas’ daughter..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 28, 2009 5:00pm
Luc Hansen

erratum: re my 1.57pm post

Should read 792, not 79s.

I was a bit distracted towards the end of that post.

I also forgot to put McShane’s name in bold.

Naturally, that post and the one above at 1.16pm attracted the usual hysterical chatter from the eclectic collection of extremists, conspiracy theorists and contrarians, complete with the obligatory ad hominems. My advice to visitors is to ignore the noise and go to reputable sources of evidence based science.

In particular, while the ETS seems to have the inside running around the world, the EU having gotten a head start on the rest of us, Bjorn Lomborg, through his site Copenhagen Consensus leads us to cutting edge research on alternative scenarios to ETS schemes.

You can find the research findings at http://fixtheclimate.com/component-1/the-solutions-new-research/
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November 28, 2009 5:02pm
peanut

This blog has sunk to a new low, by allowing personal degrodation of someones daughter, let alone of a child with a disability such as Downs Syndrome.

I commend Kaya for allowing us all to view her photos, a very brave thing to do. Kaya did not deserve the vile filthy comments made by billyborker.

David Farrar, you gave me demerits for making fun of H2, and I deserved that. But, hey, she is in the public arena. But to allow these comments to be made about an innocent person does not do this blog site any favours.
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November 28, 2009 5:02pm
Luc Hansen

And the saying of the day revised to remove the redundancy:

sanity cannot be imposed
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November 28, 2009 5:07pm
philu

peanut..neither you .. (nor anyone else) ..

..have never reacted to the ongoing attacks on my children..?

(neither has farrar..)

by these scum-sucking mouth-breathers..

that’s ok..?..

is it..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 28, 2009 5:10pm
peanut

philu,

I have been away from the blogishere for a while. I am sure that I would have made the appropriate comment.
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November 28, 2009 5:13pm
Leonidas

Has anyone suggested your children should be drowned at birth Phil?
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November 28, 2009 5:15pm
reid

“…evidence based science…”

Yes, how’s that evidence based science coming along with accounting for the temp fluctuations that are visible in the geologic record, Luc? Not to mention the correlation with the sun cycles.

Damned inconvenient truths, aren’t they?
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November 28, 2009 5:17pm
philu

yeah..peanut..you are really just the point-man on this..

the real barb was directed at ‘(nor anyone else)’..

and..in particular..

..'(neither has farrar..)’..

(his silences/lack of any censure enabling/endorsing the continued abuse/attacks on my children..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 28, 2009 5:18pm
peanut

Leonidas,

Havent you read my previous entries??

Leave children out of your nasty attacks. Attack philus comments, not his kids
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November 28, 2009 5:18pm
philu

oh..!..is it only ‘some’ attacks on commenters children..that are ‘off’..?

eh leonidas..?

why don’t you give us your do/don’t list..eh..?

i just sorta think attacks on commenters children are just ‘not on’..

but hey..!..’lefties/greenies/vegans’ kids..eh..?

meh..!..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 28, 2009 5:21pm
billyborker

Kick me all you like, but FIRST, get your facts straight. I didn’t introduce Kaya’s daughter to the debate, she did that all by herself.

kaya (551) 24 4 Says:

November 28th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Borker you are a crass and obnoxious piece of shit. Your attempts at humour are pathetic. Your dig at someone’s depression is right up there with your views on “sub optimal” people like my daughter. Remember your beautiful piece on Down syndrome? Fuck off.

This is in reference to a blog post I made ages ago about testing for Downs and aborting. Kaya read it and chose to engage in vile insult, I didn’t play, but today, she wants to play the man not the ball, and you all fall swooning at her feet.

So abuse away, but get the ducks lined up in a row first.

For the record, I believe we shoud test for Downs, and other genetic disorders, and abort.

Kids with Downs are not beautiful and they grow in to fucking ugly, retarded and criminal adults.
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November 28, 2009 5:27pm
peanut

philu, f… off. You are a real dick.

ALL COMMENTS REGARDING CHILDREN ARE OFF LIMITS-GET IT
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November 28, 2009 5:28pm
Leonidas

Everyone has the right to be indignant when another suggests their child should be euthanized at birth.

I was only seeking clarification on the extent of abuse leveled at Phils kids.
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November 28, 2009 5:28pm
reid

“I was only seeking clarification on the extent of abuse leveled at Phils kids.”

Yes, I don’t recall any direct references to Phil’s child, except in relation to what some believe is his misfortune to have the parent he has. Which is not BTW my own opinion.

It may have happened, but I don’t recall it.

Phil?
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November 28, 2009 5:37pm
philu

i’m not going to rehash/recycle/repeat them..

how about you define ‘accptable abuse’ of commenters children..there..leonidas..?

and i’ll tell you where it falls..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 28, 2009 5:42pm
Leonidas

I don’t get why Phil & peanut think I’m having a go at his kids. I know some guys here get real personal with Phil, But I’ve never seen anyone say anything like his kids should have been aborted, which is what Billy said to Kaya.
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November 28, 2009 5:45pm
billyborker

And, to add insult to injury, I’ve just seen the front cover of this weekend’s magazine inserted in Fairfax papers – retards reproducing, what next?
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November 28, 2009 5:45pm
Inventory2

Whoever said that test cricket was boring? Both Akmals out in the space of six balls and Pakistan need 54 with three wickets remaining – game on!
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November 28, 2009 5:46pm
Leonidas

Phill:
It’s not ok to abuse the kids like borker did, but I have only seen people criticize your parenting, of which I know nothing and won’t go there, tell me you have had similar abuse and I will support your position.
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November 28, 2009 5:51pm
billyborker

Leonidas, I guess it helps if you read everything, or did you miss this bit?

kaya (551) Vote: 17 0 Says:

November 28th, 2009 at 11:00 am

To be fair, 20 years ago I may have aborted my daughter if I had known of the Downs.
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November 28, 2009 5:51pm
Inventory2

203 for 8 – Umar Gul out – Pakistan needs 48; NZ needs two wickets.

This is one of the better test matches played in New Zealand in recent years.
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November 28, 2009 5:56pm
Rex Widerstrom

@billyborker

I really shouldn’t because as I said above I think you’re being deliberately provocative, but just in case you’re not and there’s some hope for you…

You can surely see the difference between testing for genetic defects and giving parents the choice (agonising though it may be, and I’m not at all sure I’d opt to have it done if I had any more children) and mandating abortion in such circumstances?

And a reference, please, for your assertion that Downs Syndrome children grow into “criminal adults”.

I have never seen any definitive clinical study proving the link. I think you’re confusing the incidence of MPAs (minor physical abnormalities) and aggressive behaviour (which can predicate criminality, though not necessarily so).

MPAs are present in a number of conditions including FAS (foetal alcohol syndrome) entirely unrelated to Downs but whose sufferers do tend to show up disproportionately in criminal statistics.

In “The Causes and Cures of Criminality” Hans Eysenck and Gisli Gudjonsson note that:

…the “threshold” at which diathesis is turned into actual criminal conduct is determined by various social and environmental factors such as unemployment, severity of laws and rigors of enforcement.

They also note that:

No studies seem to have been done comparing criminals with non-criminals with respect to MPAs…

…but perhaps you know something they don’t? For my part I can say that having dealt now with dozens of cases and visited prisons and seen thousands of prisoners I have not seen a single Downs Syndrome person amongst them.

The more I hear from you, the more your attitude toward criminality coupled with your complete ignorance as to its causation make you and Garth McVicar the perfect bedfellows.
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November 28, 2009 5:58pm
Hurf Durf

“global political agenda” = massive redistribution of wealth to the turd world.

No thank you.
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November 28, 2009 5:59pm
Inventory2

billyborker said “Kids with Downs are not beautiful and they grow in to fucking ugly, retarded and criminal adults.”

You have evidence of this borker (especially the criminal bit)? After all, you are the one who was boasting earlier that you know all about science and proof and all that.
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November 28, 2009 6:00pm
Leonidas

No, I read the whole bit:

“Having had the pleasure of watching my girl grow and sharing some of the most amazing times in my life with her I am occasionally horrified to remember that I saw things in such a black and white fashion. Her birth was a massive attitude shift for me.”
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November 28, 2009 6:00pm
peanut

Leonidas says “has anyone suggested your children should be drowned at birth Phil?”

Then he says”I don’t get why Phil & peanut think I’m having a go at his kids.”

Duh,speaks for itself dont you think.
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November 28, 2009 6:02pm
Leonidas

O.k. what I meant was: Hey Phil, Has anyone made such an outrageous assertion such as that made today, with respect to your kids? Because if so, that’s just not on and I think you have every right to be damn angry about it.

Kinda thought the general tone followed from my other posts, but apologies for the confusion.
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November 28, 2009 6:08pm
Inventory2

@ Rex Widerstrom (5.58pm) – love your work Rex – but far too subtle for a shock-jock like borker 🙂
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November 28, 2009 6:12pm
Rex Widerstrom

Thanks I2… pearls before a swine, you’re saying? 😀
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November 28, 2009 6:15pm
Inventory2

I reckon. Borker’s conduct today has been cowardly and totally out-of-line, and I hope that DPF, when he awakens and logs in, will do the right thing and give him the flick.
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November 28, 2009 6:19pm
WebWrat

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/the_competing_narratives_of_ba.html
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November 28, 2009 6:21pm
Inventory2

Pakistan 213-9
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November 28, 2009 6:22pm
billyborker

Rex, the use of the word criminal was a mistake, I attempted to edit as i meant to write … ugly, retarded and useless adults.

Sadly, the edit function doesn’t always work.

Furthermore, I may be advocating for abortion of foetuses identified as being downs, but I have not advocated it be compulsory. Hence my reference above that full scale testing could lead to a reduction of 50% in downs births, not 100% as it would be were abortion compulsory.
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November 28, 2009 6:25pm
Leonidas

sure as shit sounded like ya did, because what would be the point if it wasn’t compulsory?
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November 28, 2009 6:27pm
WebWrat

# Leonidas (80) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 28th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

O.k. what I meant was: Hey Phil, Has anyone made such an outrageous assertion such as that made today, with respect to your kids? Because if so, that’s just not on and I think you have every right to be damn angry about it.

Kinda thought the general tone followed from my other posts, but apologies for the confusion.

…………………

No need for the explanation Leonidas, I think probably 99.9% of us know what your meaning was.

Only one or two are confused.
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November 28, 2009 6:29pm
WebWrat

Borker, I assume you would think stroke victims should be put down too?
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November 28, 2009 6:34pm
Inventory2

You bewdy! A rare test victory for the Black Caps after all seemed lost half an hour after the tea adjournment. Great spells from Bond and O’Brien in the last session. O’Brien was especially impressive after dislocating a finger on his bowling hand soon after tea.

Sure, the NZ batting was brittle (as usual), but a win is a win is a win 🙂
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November 28, 2009 6:35pm
Leonidas

Cheers WebWrat. sometimes I forget that the nuances of expressing sympathy , compassion, anger and sarcasm are often lost in blogging.
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November 28, 2009 6:36pm
WebWrat

Only if you are short of brain power!
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November 28, 2009 6:40pm
pentwig

phool

you are the 2nd most degenerate abuser on this site
(Borker takes 1st)

Now you start crying boo hoo when you receive it!!

Fuckwit!!
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November 28, 2009 6:41pm
Leonidas

Well, pobody’s nerfect.
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November 28, 2009 6:42pm
Rex Widerstrom

@billyborker

“Ugly” – entirely subjective. I truly found kaya’s daughter beautiful. OTOH I find Paris Hilton repulsive, and not just for her behaviour. Many disagree (as the worldwide outbreak of crotch-scratching that follows in her wake attests). So we’re going to start culling based on appearance now? I’d better check into the nearest processing centre for turning into compost then.

“Retarded” – in the purely scientific sense, yes, though it’s rather an archaic term now. However there are plenty of people who don’t suffer from Downs, or any other visible abnormality, and yet who are “retarded”. For instance the perfectly normal-looking lunatic against whom I am endeavouring to get a permanent restraining order (working pro bono for a friend) writes stuff like:

also – public disclosure statement, I believe the judge in my chambers sess votag, knows cops are like honestly totally bent over. he said you have no defence – what he said, or cops may not even have any, I wonder if I will get an offer?

Hardly the writings of someone whose mind is working normally. Yet not able to be identified in the womb. So what do we do with them, billy? Shoot them after birth? This guy is in his 30s… is a spot of retrospective eugenics okay then? (If you think so, please let me know. I’ll have you dispatch him and effectively kill two loons* with one stone, as it were).

I’d argue that there are plenty of “retarded” people (if one takes the definition as “intellectually sub normal”) people in the world, most of whom do not suffer from Downs. Have you ever tried to debate the validity of a ticket with a parking inspector, for instance?

“Useless” – what, like a List MP? Or someone chronically unemployed? Or what about the aged and infirm? Do you envisage a sort of “Logan’s Run” scenario to deal with them?

You’ve retreated from “criminals” because you know it’s statistically unprovable to a list of entirely subjective criteria for which, presumably, some Tribunal would be the judge. Headed by yourself, no doubt?

* Excuse the avian pun, it’s not meant to be an ad hominem, I just couldn’t resist.
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November 28, 2009 6:45pm
billyborker

Its OK, Rex, I’ll be at The Loons in Lyttleton in another hiour or so. 🙂
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November 28, 2009 7:00pm
pentwig

You are far too kind Leonidis

phool and wee willie borker only deserve contempt.
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November 28, 2009 7:00pm
Leonidas

Do unto others…….
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November 28, 2009 7:03pm
big bruv

Ahhh, Borker lives in Lyttelton.

That explains a lot, Lyttleton is perhaps the last ‘union’ town in New Zealand and a place where people still argue over the merits of a strike thirty years ago.

And yes, for those of you who have never been but are imagining Lytttelton as a grubby little shit hole populated by ships sluts , labour supporters and union scum…you would be dead right.
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November 28, 2009 7:09pm
billyborker

One doesn’t have to live in Lyttleton to enjoy its bars and other delights.
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November 28, 2009 7:13pm
Inventory2

Lyttleton eh? Isn’t that Red Ruth Dyson’s electorate?
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November 28, 2009 7:14pm
Leonidas

phool and wee willie borker only deserve contempt.

perhaps, but still one must not judge the Son by the sins of the Father
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November 28, 2009 7:19pm
nickb

What an awesome day for NZ cricket!

And what a bad day for kiwiblog, billyborker your contemptible comments on GD today really take the cake. Did you use to wet the bed when you were a child or something?

You have been added permanently to my RIP- goodbye for ever, you contemptible turd. Karma will get you you sad little fuckwit.
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November 28, 2009 7:31pm
Inventory2

Agree on both counts Nick
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November 28, 2009 7:37pm
philu

has anyone else noticed that dubai reneging on $60 billion in debt..has become the latest flash-point in the ongoing global economic meltdown..?

the former head economist at the imf..sez if this is not totally sorted out/’clarified’ by the time the american stock exchange opens on (our) mon nite..

that next week on that stock exchange will be ..in his word.. ‘tricky’..

(most exposed..?..european banks/commonwealth bank in australia/korean banks + pretty much everyone..

the potential ‘ripples’ are somewhat awesome..

but..funnily enough..

said economist also said the problems in dubai fade into irrelevance when considered against the problems facing america..

‘interesting-times’..ahead..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 28, 2009 7:40pm
Pete George

Enjoyed a good day at the Uni Oval. Actually the first test I have been to see. Interesting day of ebbs and flows, thought we had stuffed up, then we came back, then it seemed to be slipping away, but they held their nerve and kept plugging away and the wickets started tumbling.

Can’t have been many test wins in Dunedin for quite a while?
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November 28, 2009 7:43pm
nickb

One question though, when on earth are the black caps going to find decent openers? 2, just 2, cricketers in the 4 million people in NZ that can score runs at the top.

You may say Guptill shows promise, and McIntosh, and perhaps they do, but they are not scoring runs, and that is what we all thought about Papps/How/Redmond/Vincent/Sinclair…………………….
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November 28, 2009 7:45pm
Pete George

Openers have been a problem for a long time. And we looked short of a bowler today, fortunately it wasn’t a long innings so they got by with four.
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November 28, 2009 7:47pm
pentwig

The phool on frogblog

phil u
Posted November 27, 2009 at 6:35 PM
also..what is important to do at kiwiblog..

is to ‘call’ them on the lies/bullshit..

some from farrar..but mainly from the commenters..

(again..and not for them..but for that large/silent reading audience..

go harvest..!..bj..!..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

phil u
Posted November 27, 2009 at 6:54 PM
nah..fly there is bugger all using that rip..

and i am glad those who are..are..

because all they do is spew slime..

so..once again..that big body of silent readers are now afforded a less cloudy/vitriol-laced environment..

and..as one of the righties noted today..

(referring to the fact they all still talk about me..but more importantly..their (now) silence..)

‘who exactly has won this battle..?’

so..i still figure what i do there is worthwhile..

(c.f..large/silent reading audience..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

namely..the likes of kiwiblog…

reasons why..?

it isn’t about the mindless trolls there..

it’s about the fact that that forum has the largest readership..

surely that is where your skills would be better (selectively)engaged..?

you could use that time/energy you waste here with the likes of wat/shunda etc etc..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

I find the last one ironical when he talks about mindless trolls.
Who is the biggest mindless troll on here phool?

Fuckwit
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November 28, 2009 7:50pm
philu

“..Who is the biggest mindless troll on here phool?..”

i guess you wd be on anyones’ short-list..eh..?

seeing as you just make up lies about people all the time..eh..?

that pretty much defines you as a piece of shit..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 28, 2009 8:05pm
Inventory2

Glad you had a great day Pete. Rumours of the demise of test cricket would appear to be greatly exaggerated. It was a cracking last day.

We beat Bangladesh at Dunners two years ago (if that counts) – prior to that the last win in the world’s southernmost test venue might have been against Pakistan in 1984-5 where Jeremy Coney and Ewen Chatfield added 50-odd undefeated, effectively for the last wicket after Lance Cairns had copped one to the swede.
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November 28, 2009 8:13pm
Hurf Durf

Phool is an idiot. Rippers exclude rippees from the thread, not vice versa.

It’s nice to be able to converse in a phool-free environment.
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November 28, 2009 8:22pm
Pete George

I still find the developments unfolding in a good test fascinating, it was at least as good as watching a one day game today. And watching at the ground you miss all the comments and replays but you see a lot of others things going on that you don’t see on TV.
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November 28, 2009 8:22pm
Chthoniid

You know pentwig, I think I’ve figured out why the Greens are polling below the threshold at the moment.

The vast silent reading majority on Kiwiblog just has to read one of Phool’s rants, work out this is typical of the Greens, and make a rational deduction. Phool=Greens=Electoral Roadkill.

Lovely cricket match btw.
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November 28, 2009 8:23pm
Chthoniid

Oh, and the atmosphere of a good cricket match on the ground cannot be matched by the TV experience. The ground experience is superior.
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November 28, 2009 8:25pm
Inventory2

Phillip Ure said “it isn’t about the mindless trolls there..

it’s about the fact that that forum has the largest readership..”

Sheeeee-itt! If Phil’s “news aggregation service” is in the top 1% of Technorati’s global rankings as claimed by its author, where would the forum which “has the largest readership” rate?
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November 28, 2009 8:25pm
Viking2

AGW’s are all stuffed and turning on each other now.

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/4100/UN-scientists-turn-on-each-other-UN-Scientist-Declares-Climategate-colleagues-Mann-Jones-and-Rahmstorf-should-be-barred-from-the-IPCC-process–They-are-not-credible-any-more

UN scientists turn on each other: UN Scientist Declares Climategate colleagues Mann, Jones and Rahmstorf ‘should be barred from the IPCC process’ — They are ‘not credible any more’
UN IPCC’s Eduardo Zorita: ‘By writing these lines I will just probably achieve that a few of my future studies will, again, not see the light of publication’
Friday, November 27, 2009 – By Marc Morano – Climate Depot

A UN scientist is declaring that his three fellow UN climate panel colleagues “should be barred from the IPCC process.” In a November 26, 2009 message on his website, UN IPCC contributing author Dr. Eduardo Zorita writes: “CRU files: Why I think that Michael Mann, Phil Jones and Stefan Rahmstorf should be barred from the IPCC process.”

Zorita writes that the short answer to that question is: Short answer: “Because the scientific assessments in which they may take part are not credible anymore.”

Zorita indicates that he is aware that he is putting his career in jeopardy by going after the upper echelon of UN IPCC scientists. “By writing these lines I will just probably achieve that a few of my future studies will, again, not see the light of publication,” Zorita candidly admits, a reference to the ClimateGate emails discussing how to suppress data and scientific studies that do not agree with the UN IPCC views.

Zorita was a UN IPCC Contributing Author of Fourth Assessment Report in 2007. Since 2003, Zorita as headed the Department of Paleoclimate and has been a senior scientist at the Institute for Coastal Research of the GKSS Research Centre in Germany. Zorita has published more than 70 peer-reviewed scientific studies.

Zorita’s stunning candor continued, noting that scientists who disagreed with the UN IPCC climate view were “bullied and subtly blackmailed.”

“In this atmosphere, Ph D students are often tempted to tweak their data so as to fit the ‘politically correct picture’. Some, or many issues, about climate change are still not well known. Policy makers should be aware of the attempts to hide these uncertainties under a unified picture. I had the ‘pleasure’ to experience all this in my area of research,” Zorita explained.
[Zorita’s full statement is reprinted below.]

Continuing fallout of ClimateGate

Zorita’s revelations are the latest in a series of continuing fallout to the global warming establishment and to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), since the email and data scandal dubbed “ClimateGate” broke earlier this month.

Zorita’s defection from the global warming establishment comes after the shocking news today that one of the scientists employed at ground zero of what has been termed “ClimateGate” has suggested disbanding the United Nations climate panel, the IPCC. See: Pressure Mounts From Inside: Disband IPCC? Scientist from U. of East Anglia Suggests ‘UN IPCC has run its course…politicizes climate science…authoritarian, exclusive form of knowledge production’ – Mike Hulme Excerpt: ClimateGate reveals science has become ‘too partisan, too centralized…more usually associated with social organization within primitive cultures’

In addition, scientists from around the world are now demanding that the “ClimateGate” scientists be banned from future UN IPCC climate work. See: More ClimateGate Fallout: Prominent German Scientist Declares ‘Compromised’ UN Scientists should be excluded from IPCC and Peer-Review Process – November 24, 2009

Meanwhile, pressure to fire or resign continues to increase for the man at the center of the ClimateGate scandal, Phil Jones. See: Phil Jones, the Fall Guy? Scientist in climate change ‘cover-up’ storm told to quit – UK Daily Mail – Nov. 25, 2009
Caught in Another Untruth? THEN: UN IPCC’s Phil Jones, Dec 3, 2008: ‘About 2 months ago I deleted loads of emails, so have very little – if anything at all’ – NOW: UN IPCC’s Phil Jones, Nov 24, 2009: ‘We’ve not deleted any emails or data here at CRU’

The New ‘Deniers’: UK Greenie George Monbiot: ‘Most of the environmentalists I know have gone into denial’ — ‘Pretending the climate email leak isn’t a crisis won’t make it go away’ – Monbiot: ‘There is no helping it; Phil Jones has to go, and the longer he leaves it, the worse it will get’ – UK Daily Mail – Nov. 25, 2009

more at http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=916&p=26442#p26442
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November 28, 2009 8:26pm
Viking2

Now I wonder what the wonder boys are going to say to this lot? Where to now for the ETS?

another change to legislation coming up in a hurry.

The Nats are screaming mad.
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November 28, 2009 8:28pm
big bruv

How come the All Blacks are not as tough as Iain O’Brien?

Dislocated finger…’just put the bloody thing back in and let me carry on bowling’
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November 28, 2009 8:29pm
big bruv

And does anybody care that the All Blacks are playing another boring test tomorrow?

I am so over rugby, bring on the rest of the cricket season!
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November 28, 2009 8:30pm
Hurf Durf

Inventory, I have it on good authority that the US President is a regular reader of Whoar.

Which explains where his “soaring rhetoric” has gone.
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November 28, 2009 8:33pm
nickb

Definitely bruv. Looked bloody painful.

Bout time we had someone of substance in a national team, instead of the many bad behaving, underperformaing prima donnas. Elliot has a bit of that same substance about him IMO.
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November 28, 2009 8:34pm
Leonidas

Walk the line is on, so in the immortal words of Eric Cartman: Screw you guys, I’m going home!
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November 28, 2009 8:36pm
Pete George

Rugby is really struggling to excite at the moment. Too much of it, but not enough of it in each game. Mostly tedious.
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November 28, 2009 8:40pm
Inventory2

big bruv – I’m actually looking forward to the rugby in the morning – the forward confrontation is shaping up as the best of the season. It might not be pretty, but I reckon that it could be a good, old-fashioned stoush 🙂
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November 28, 2009 8:42pm
Chicken Little

Climategate – What will it mean for the Greens as a political entity in NZ?

What percentage of their support is based around this one issue?

How many people have to walk away to put them under 5%?

My weekend just keeps getting better and better

More beer! 🙂
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November 28, 2009 8:46pm

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