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November 24, 2009 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 24 November 2009

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Jack5

Whoops! in my 4.28 on the National handout to Auckland, I think I provided the wrong link. Sorry.

But will Aucklanders choose the train over cars just because the train is electric? C’mon Joyce, cars are convenient. Only Greens and bloody bureaucrats want to force us out of them.

I think this is the correct link to the train handout:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10611362
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November 24, 2009 4:36pm
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

philu:

. . . from your own website RECENT COMMENTS column –

‘bjchip’ made 1 comment on August 28, . . . and another on October 16 !!!

‘Jase’ made 1 on November 2 . . . !!

‘Ozy Mandias’, 1 . . . on October 4

‘El’, 1 on September 4 . . . (yeah!) and

‘Sofia’ . . . 1 yesterday, November 23

And you boast you make 14-20 posts a day . . . eh??

That’s August 28 – November 23: . . . 89 days

. . . THAT’S 1246 TO 1780 POSTS

bloody hell, phil !!! . . .

. . . AND 6 COMMENTS . . hey, sorry . . . like, man . . . NO ONE IS TOO INTERESTED . . .

so why drop your posts on this blog . . . huh??!!

[although you are showing more restraint in the number of phoolstops and commas and brackets, we can still spot THEM !!! ((Pho’ne Whoarawira of the Blogosphere!!)) . . . ]

Oh . . . you get more comments on them here than you do on your own website???

Shit!! . . . silly me . . . NOW I understand.
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November 24, 2009 4:36pm
Chthoniid

If anyone has an interest in science type thingies, I did do a blog post on the Origin of the Species over at sciblogs today. I’m not sure how many people know this, but today is the 150th anniversary of the publication of Darwin’s “Origin of the Species”.

Link is http://sciblogs.co.nz/chthonic-wildlife-ramblings/2009/11/24/origin-of-the-species-150-years-on/

You’re welcome to pop over and have a read.
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November 24, 2009 4:55pm
Jack5

Interesting piece on Darwin, Chthoniid. Thank you. Darwin’s caused a huge shift in Western thought in a fairly short time. Evolution now seems obvious to most of us lay folk.

Islam is having a hard time accepting evolution, though, and some of the more fundamentalist Christians are performing logical circus acts to prove Genesis is true.
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November 24, 2009 5:25pm
dad4justice

I do wonder when David makes us post under our real names so I can find out who big bruv is?
The gutless worm is a coward and a backstabbing lowlife who thinks he is smart with his torrid venom.
Got a name big blouse you yellowback coward.
Go get fucked you snake. You spineless jellyfish always attacking my crefdibility. Do it face to face. Yeah right keyboard coward.
Peter Burns.
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November 24, 2009 5:50pm
Steve

Dear Grim Reaper,

This year you have taken my favourite male actor, Patrick Swayze. You also took my favourite female actor, Farrah Fawcett Major and my favourite entertainer and dancer, Michael Jackson.

I want to be sure you know that Hone Harawera is my favorite politician.

Thanks.
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November 24, 2009 5:54pm
dad4justice

“no more big bruv..?”

Don’t worry phool when we are requested to post under our real names watch the germ go away.
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November 24, 2009 5:56pm
getstaffed

hey Jack5, I’ll hold off proving Genesis until right after someone proves evolution 😉

From a scientific perspective both are theories – there is evidence for and against. From a belief perspective, selecting either as your explanation of the origin of the earth requires some faith.

My own view is that the most ardent supporters of evolutionary theory adopt their stance primarily as a means of publicly demonstrating their atheism. That’s fair enough.

I believe that the earth was created by God, not in literally over 7 days, and probably many millions of years ago. Plants and animals have shown extraordinary adaptation as the earth has matured/changed (think plates shifting, ice ages etc). Reasonable people accept this belief system. Unreasonable ones (as evidenced by the abuse I’m anticipating…) feel that allowing me to believe this somehow dents their atheism.

Back to the first point, you’ll not find me trying to prove Genesis as true. There’s simply too much that can’t be explained by science. Similarly you’ll not find me trying to disprove evolutionary theory, although there are a few scientific holes that get glossed over a little too quickly IMO.
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November 24, 2009 5:59pm
Steve

Those Scientific holes are about climate change?
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November 24, 2009 6:03pm
Hurf Durf

What’s this about ETS’? Accepting a lower standard of living for Mother Gaia? FUCK OFF John, and FUCK OFF enviromarxists.
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November 24, 2009 6:03pm
Steve

Gloss over? so the general public are not aware of the bullshit disguised as another tax?
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November 24, 2009 6:05pm
gazzmaniac

d4j, would you be talking like that to his face? What if he was 6’6″ and highly pumped? BTW you are making yourself look bad, you don’t need help from big bruv
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November 24, 2009 6:09pm
dad4justice

gazz I couldn’t give a flying f is big blouse was Mike Tyson I want to catch up with the cowardly creep!!
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November 24, 2009 6:12pm
gazzmaniac

getstaffed – the theory of evolution goes a long way to explaining what is going on around us. There is a fossil record (still incomplete and will probably always be so) that shows various intermediate stages between not only primates and people, but also species of fish, trees, other mammals, reptiles and the list goes on. There is also proof of the process of natural selection, the most famous example is the moths in London, where it was shown that prior to the industrial revolution they were predominantly brown and mottled, during the industrial era they were black and after London started to be cleaned up in the 1950s the brown ones started to reappear. The colour and pattern on their wings gave certain individuals and advantage over others, so they lived to reproduce while the others were presumably dinner.
There is not one shred of evidence outside the bible to show that intelligent design is fact – and there is documented evidence that the Romans made up the new testament by committee. The reason so many people still believe in intelligent design is because they are not prepared to give up the idea of an afterlife, so they need alternative theories to explain how everything is here.
One final point is that Intelligent Design is not science, because in the eyes of the believers it cannot be challenged. If somebody comes up with an alternative to the theory of evolution that is credible, I and most scientific people will be happy to consider it on its merit. It is a damn shame that climate scientists have given the scientific community such a bad name.
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November 24, 2009 6:24pm
gazzmaniac

good luck with calling Mike Tyson a coward. Just don’t claim the result on ACC please.
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November 24, 2009 6:26pm
philu

any seinfeld fans out there..?

a new/modern episode has been made..

and here it is..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/a-new-seinfeld-episodeanyone/

(the story..?

george is not happy..

has has made millions from a phone app. ..to do with public toilets..

and his ex-trophy-wife has half his millions..

and bernie madoff got the rest..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 24, 2009 6:44pm
dad4justice

haha big blouse hits with a thumbs down while Tyson likes a ear to chew. Toad should be along shortly is sort out anger issues. Is billy borker and big blouse the same strain of flu?
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November 24, 2009 6:45pm
reid

Thanks phil, that’s great. Used to love Seinfeld, and Curb is another brilliant show.
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November 24, 2009 6:52pm
starboard

a knighthood to the einstein who thought of RIP…no phil ure is pure bliss…a thousand thank you’s…
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November 24, 2009 6:56pm
dad4justice

So people don’t like the idea of posting under our real names? Guess why New Zealanders lack mettle.
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November 24, 2009 7:00pm
gazzmaniac

It is fairly common knowledge who I am anyway.
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November 24, 2009 7:11pm
Chthoniid

Interesting piece on Darwin, Chthoniid. Thank you. Darwin’s caused a huge shift in Western thought in a fairly short time. Evolution now seems obvious to most of us lay folk.

Islam is having a hard time accepting evolution, though, and some of the more fundamentalist Christians are performing logical circus acts to prove Genesis is true.

Yes, our modern understanding of things like genetics and better knowledge of the fossil record, make accepting evolution very straightforward. It’s hard to imagine the creative leaps Darwin had to make, to get natural selection to work. That’s what makes the work so brilliant. It’s hard to think of other publications that have had near the same effect (possibly Newton’s physics or Einstein’s theory of relativity).

I didn’t really intend to blog about creationism I’m afraid. I note that most mainstream theological thought, treats the Bible more as a record of God’s interaction with humanity as opposed to a scientific document. This makes it easy to accept natural selection as being “God’s mechanism” and thus accepts evolution as a scientific phenomenon.

Most Muslim biologists I run into tend to divide things into spiritual and scientific spheres. This is possibly not entirely consistent with some Muslim sects, but it appears to work for them as a way of reconciling evolution with their beliefs.
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November 24, 2009 7:21pm
Luc Hansen

RNZ tonight has ” an historic 1970 performance by Leonard Cohen” on “The Sampler” staring 7.30pm.
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November 24, 2009 7:27pm
Luc Hansen

Brian said: Now there is something I have never thought on before. Do vegan women swallow?

Just reminded me of a T-shirt I saw on a very attractive lass at a festival long ago. Across her perfect, ahem, chest, were the words: “I swallow”.

I never got to find out if she was telling the truth 🙁
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November 24, 2009 7:33pm
reid

So did anyone hear the Ann Tolley piece on Radio Left Wing round 5:30?

Apparently, Ann thought it would be a good idea to read a children’s story to a PPTA meeting about a rat who was happy to make do with less. Apparently, the PPTA read into that a message about their upcoming wage round.

Who woulda thunk?

Tolley is a weak link in an important portfolio. It’s undergoing critical change right now with the new reporting regime and she needs someone astute to guide her through the obstructive maze that the lefties who inhabit that sphere are throwing up. They will not stop and she either needs to lift her game or exit forthwith because Key cannot afford the see the wheels fall off in that arena, as it could, if exploited, be seen by the reef-fish to be a significant break in his popularity which currently Liarbore can’t penetrate.
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November 24, 2009 7:35pm
philu

this has been the least abuse day in yrs..

i love this rip system..

and urge all those who have no interest in the links i post..

and can’t just shut up..

to go and sign up..

and..

i stand victorious..!

i have driven the trolls away..!

they are vanquished..

in their self-exile..

and more importantly..

i have shut them up..

mmmm..!..feel/smell the victory..!…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 24, 2009 7:38pm
Chthoniid

@gazzmaniac

What is new moon?

Second movie in the Twilight Series, setting all kinds of book-office records. Some NZ theatres had presold all seats on opening night. Bigger than LOTR in NZ.

Features girly-boy Vampire who spends long periods of time wondering whether to kiss female lead. (Very virtuous and non-threatening to teenage girls who make up most of the audience). Sometimes takes shirt off. Also features sulky, female lead overpowered by teen angst, but with big crush on vampire. She shows that being a humourless, teenage girl without charm, is no barrier to hunky, good looking vampires falling in love with you. Reason for this is opaque.

In this movie there is a love triangle with a werewolf. He sometimes takes his shirt off too.

I believe that there is a lot of long meaningful looks exchanged as well.

It’s become a global phenomenon. Btw, US figures show that 80% of the audience are female.
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November 24, 2009 7:41pm
Hurf Durf

You know what would be great? If the Twilight series ended in a donkey punch that went horribly wrong. The reactions from the audience would be hilarious.
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November 24, 2009 7:44pm
gazzmaniac

Righto, so I don’t need to worry about going to see it.
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November 24, 2009 7:48pm
Pete George

Doesn’t sound like my sort of movie.

Doesn’t sound like a few other people’s sort of movie either. IMDB is currently 4.5/10 which is very low.

Rotten Tomatoes is showing 29% (Reviews Counted:163 Fresh:48 Rotten:115), also very low.

Doesn’t sound like my sort of movie.
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November 24, 2009 7:57pm
getstaffed

Chthoniid, just how many times have you watched it?!? 😉
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November 24, 2009 8:04pm
Brian Smaller

Brian said: Now there is something I have never thought on before. Do vegan women swallow?

Just reminded me of a T-shirt I saw on a very attractive lass at a festival long ago. Across her perfect, ahem, chest, were the words: “I swallow”.

I never got to find out if she was telling the truth

I was serious though about my question Luc. Interesting moral dilemma for a vegan.
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November 24, 2009 8:09pm
Steve

I know we are avoiding Phool and blocking the comments via RIP, but ..
Phool, have you got your turkey for christmas and your ham.
Run out of money (for drugs) and go to the food bank? I mean use the system, us taxpayers will provide for you.

I did tell you that your time was coming. Kiwiblogers will use the RIP add on.
Your offspring must be disapointed, deciding to work or bludge as a student then learn to get his own blog.
Lots of comments on whore.co.nz, like 3 this week.
‘The boy” may start to think on his own soon, but I doubt it, he is on the same drugs as you.

RIP Phool
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November 24, 2009 8:25pm
Steve

Phool,
Once we laughed at your drug induced comments and stupidity.
Nobody cares about you now.
They did not care today, they did not care yesterday and they will not care tomorrow.
They did not care last week and they will not care next week.
They did not care last year, they do not care this year and they will not care next year.
You are a stupid prick.
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November 24, 2009 8:26pm
Pete George

# Steve: You are a stupid prick.
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November 24, 2009 8:28pm
Luc Hansen

36 arguments for the existence of God

Very comprehensive discussion and extensive exposition of the flaws in each of the 36 arguments.

Where is Ian Wishart when you need him? 🙂 🙂 🙂

Source: Arts and Letters Daily where you can also find articles like this: Religion reduces corruption and acts to increase respect for law in ways that boost economic growth in societies where it is present and Religion is blamed when it promotes such evils as persecution or warfare, but gets less attention when it patches up the moral fabric of society.

Look down the LH column.
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November 24, 2009 8:39pm
Hurf Durf

Hone Hairywire the racist won’t be forced to stand down because he has massive support from his electorate. A racist electoral system backs a racist MP. Who would have thought?
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November 24, 2009 8:51pm
Whafe

It seems this land of the long white cloud is becoming a racist shit hole, man alive I hate saying that, but so feel it today…

Then on top of that, this whole Global Warming BS….. Being a farmer and all, this BS on climate makes me sick…. Try growing thousands of acres of spuds & onions, my ass its getting warmer, and on the years it is actually getting warmer it isnt human beings, it is the cyclic nature of this here planet!
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November 24, 2009 8:59pm
Steve

Come on George Pete. This week is like the last supper for Phool
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November 24, 2009 9:10pm
Steve

George, stick it where the global warming sun don’t shine
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November 24, 2009 9:14pm
Hurf Durf

GLOBAL WARMING GLOBAL WARMING
CLIMATE CHANGE CLIMATE CHANGE
DO NOT QUESTION
DO NOT QUESTION
CLIMATE CHANGE
CLIMATE CHANGE
YOU GOT CAUGHT OUT? YOU GOT CAUGHT OUT?
SPIN IT HARD
SPIN IT HARD
MSM HAS GOT YOUR BACK
GOT YOUR BACK
SPIN IT HARD
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November 24, 2009 9:16pm
Pete George

Steve, you must be blind if you don’t see it, there are a lot of Kiwibloggers who are getting fucking sick of people going on and on about Phil, encouraging the noise and substantially increasing the noise. If you like continual taunting and want to keep poking your stick try it on Phil’s blog where you won’t piss off so many.
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November 24, 2009 9:20pm
Hurf Durf

I can see the distance wail of the “moderate centre-left” but for some reason I cannot hear it. I wonder why?
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November 24, 2009 9:22pm
Chthoniid

@Brian Smaller

Now there is something I have never thought on before. Do vegan women swallow?

Would ingestion really be considered different to umm, delivery into other anatomical regions? Either way, it’s inside.
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November 24, 2009 9:42pm
stephen

I believe that there is a lot of long meaningful looks exchanged as well.

I believe the first movie could’ve been ~30 minutes shorter with just half the number of meaningful looks.
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November 24, 2009 10:04pm
Luc Hansen

A Cohen line for poor Hurf @9.16pm…

“dance me through the panic till I’m gathered safely in…”
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November 24, 2009 10:48pm
Hurf Durf

An FPI factsheet blows the myths purported by Puke out of the water:

Charge: We can defeat our enemy in Afghanistan with a more limited counterterrorism strategy, using drones and increased intelligence gathering.

Response: “If the United States should adopt a small-footprint counterterrorism strategy, Afghanistan would descend again into civil war,” Frederick Kagan testified before the House Armed Services Committee. “The Taliban group headed by Mullah Omar and operating in southern Afghanistan (including especially Helmand, Kandahar, and Oruzgan Provinces) is well positioned to take control of that area upon the withdrawal of American and allied combat forces. The remaining Afghan security forces would be unable to resist a Taliban offensive. They would be defeated and would disintegrate. The fear of renewed Taliban assaults would mobilize the Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Hazaras in northern and central Afghanistan. The Taliban itself would certainly drive on Herat and Kabul, leading to war with northern militias. This conflict would collapse the Afghan state, mobilize the Afghan population, and cause many Afghans to flee into Pakistan and Iran. Within Pakistan, the U.S. reversion to a counterterrorism strategy (from the counterinsurgency strategy for which Obama reaffirmed his support as recently as August) would disrupt the delicate balance that has made possible recent Pakistani progress against internal foes and al Qaeda.” — House Armed Services Committee

In Commentary, Max Boot notes, “it is hard to point to any place where pure [counterterrorism] has defeated a determined terrorist or guerrilla group. This is the strategy that Israel has used against Hamas and Hezbollah. The result is that Hamas controls Gaza, and Hezbollah controls southern Lebanon. It is the strategy that the U.S. has employed in Somalia since our forces pulled out in 1994. The result is that the country is utterly chaotic and lawless, and an Islamic fundamentalist group called the Shabab, which has close links to al-Qaeda, is gaining strength. Most pertinently, it is also the strategy the U.S. has used for years in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The result is that the Taliban control the tribal areas of Pakistan and are extending their influence across large swathes of Afghanistan.” — Commentary
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November 24, 2009 10:52pm
Hurf Durf

That shit Editing the Herald blawg makes me lol hard. The fact that it and most of its columnists already leans left doesn’t matter to these clowns; they’re butthurt that it isn’t more like Alternet.

Also: evidence of left wing infiltration at the March for Democracy.
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November 24, 2009 11:42pm
Brian Smaller

Chthoniid (764) Vote: 1 0 Says:

November 24th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
@Brian Smaller

Now there is something I have never thought on before. Do vegan women swallow?

Would ingestion really be considered different to umm, delivery into other anatomical regions? Either way, it’s inside.

I don’t know but would be willing to help any vegan woman if she wanted to explore this dilemma.

As an aside – Google “Do vegan women swallow” and be amused. Perhpas it wasn’t a joke after all 🙂
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November 25, 2009 6:47am
Luc Hansen

hurf 11.52pm

That’s a good study of the arguments presented in favour of continuing the carnage in Afghanistan and Pakistan, with many valid points.

But I think any comparison with Hamas and Hezbollah is wrong, simply because in those cases both organisations sprung up to resist belligerent occupation by Israel. But the US, I believe, never intended to occupy Afghanistan – remember the repeated babarianism of “bombing the country back to the stone age?” – but found itself trapped there. One of the reasons it is still there is actually a good aspect of the US; an unwillingness to allow the internal civil war that would play out against the back drop of the damage to its international reputation.

But sometimes you have to bite the bullet, as the British and the Russians did before it in Afghanistan, the French did in Algeria and the US did in Vietnam. And of course, these examples only strengthen the resolve of the resistance groups, and that is their true relevance to today’s situation.

Briefly, the ability of the Pakistan army to deal with internal threats is grossly underestimated. The US allowed Pakistan to develop the cold war enemy mentality which actually gave rise to the Taleban (it started in Pakistan, sponsored by the ISI and the army), and more diplomatic effort to deal with Kashmir would see Pakistan’s army redirected from conflict with India to concentrate on internal threats.

The article touches on the real problem for the US, the unwillingness of voters to countenance continued involvement with increasing costs in blood and treasure. It’s a problem of democracy. This is the real battleground.
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November 25, 2009 7:41am

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