General Debate 15 November 2009

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dad4justice

John Boy Key has recently announced he will make the All Black captain a Sir Richie if we can get our hands on the silverware as Bill Puppet English speaks glory days ahead with the All Whites win. Meanwhile in the other corner a pissed off Hone and his gang of thieves are busy chopping trees down (One Tree Hill), and gathering firewood so the bitter brown lads can put the pot on and boil a bit of white arse.
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November 15, 2009 8:13am
Pete George

Ain’t karma a bitch.

I don’t know about that, but bullying can be a bastard – or sometimes a pack of bastards.

Coddington: With examples like Harawira, how will we ever stop bullying?
But should we lump bullying in with criminal violence?
I don’t underestimate the effects of bullying, but success is indeed revenge.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10609295

It’s generally accepted that violent behaviour is on the increase. Violent language?
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November 15, 2009 8:35am
pdm

A disappointing performance by the All Black forwards against Italy. Was that the worst front row selection ever knowing that Italy would be very strong in that area. I hope Cron’s hand shakes a bit when he takes his pay – there are better front rowers left behind in NZ than the three on show in Milan and when is Franks going to get a run. Similarly at No8 the Italian had skills and commitment most NZ 8’s can only dream about.

Smith (after a nervous start) and Delany showed promis in a tight game. Good to see Ellis back but he needs to stop taking those steps before he passes. Good goalkicking by McAlister who should play at 12 agains England France and Ireland so that he can get a combination with Carter – we need two class players together there.

Still a win is a win and England looked very average against both Australia and Argentina – very reliant on Wilkinson to get their points..
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November 15, 2009 8:43am
billyborker

Stand up, stand up, against Jesus.

Great article by Russell Blackford.

There are harmful consequences to real people in the real world if the views of churches and sects are enshrined in law or given undue social deference – the acceptance even in liberal secular societies of conscientious objection as a legitimate reason for health care professionals and even civil servants to refuse to provide professional services to certain citizens is a case in point. For these reasons it is important that we should speak out and publicly contest the special authority that is accorded, all too often, to pontiffs, imams, priests, and presbyters. Religious leaders are not our moral leaders, much as they clamour to be, and however much the politicians flatter them. These spiritual emperors have no clothes, and we shouldn’t flinch from saying so.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/nov/06/religion-atheism
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November 15, 2009 8:59am
mike tan

What is with these asians who think that their 5-10 year old children are completely mature and independent??

Almost daily i see some irresponsible “parent” pushing the pram with a wee one inside but not paying even the slightest bit of attention to the 5-10 year old behind them who is blatantly running around all over the road

For christ sake the scum i saw yesterday was so thick she was pushing her pram down the middle of the fucking road with the wee one running around behind her IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING ROAD (in a area notorious for bad drivers)

The nerve and stupidity of this bitch to pull a face and swear at me when i told her to look out for the little one!

Thanks helen for infesting our country with the likes of these creatures who possess about as many brain cells as i can count on one hand
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November 15, 2009 9:06am
Redbaiter

A preview of NZ under John Key and the do nothing Nats??

—————————————————————————————–

Failed states: California is overregulated, overtaxed, and just plain over
By: J.P. Freire Associate Commentary Editor
November 13, 2009

In July, when Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger called for a “Commission on the 21st Century Economy,” it was hoped the group of experts could provide a way to finally resolve California’s budget woes. When the commission issued its report at the end of September, however, the recommendations fell to the floor with a resounding thud. Defenders of California’s status quo in the state legislature in effect said “no way.”

Today, California is a by-the-numbers state tragedy. Unemployment is higher than 12.2 percent as of September. Business costs are almost 23 percent higher than other states on average. Migration out of the state is at an all time high. A map by United Van Lines shows a strong demand for moving trucks as residents leave California for other destinations, particularly Texas.

More Californians would leave if they could sell their houses, but the Golden State’s real estate market has tanked as well. It has the fourth-highest foreclosure rate of any state. All of these indicators are the product of a toxic mix of liberal Democratic government — a steep progressive tax rate, an uncompromising regulatory regime, and budget-busting programs like MediCal (California’s Medicare system), generous state welfare benefits, and extraordinarily costly pay and pensions for state employees.

The state’s fiscal plight is so bad that earlier this year it had to resort to issuing IOUs when state coffers ran dry. According to the governor, California will have another budget deficit of as much as $7 billion through June, on top of the $7.5 billion deficit projected for the following year. That will create a shortfall of almost $14.5 billion.

And thanks to the special interests that control the state legislature, nothing is likely to change any time soon.

For example, in May, Tom Campbell, a gubernatorial candidate, former California director of finance, and five-term member of Congress, wrote a state initiative for budget reform, Proposition 76.

Campbell’s proposal required significant state budget cuts and included a provision allowing the governor to reduce appropriations of employee compensation and state contracts. Unfortunately, the proposal was killed, 37 percent for, 62 percent against.

Public sector employees unions led the all-out campaign by the special interests in the legislature to kill Prop. 76, even though it would have led to a state budget surplus.

This was possible because the public sector unions don’t have to raise money — they merely have to pour member dues, fueled by tax dollars, into whatever cause they like.

There are also a lot of these dollars: Today, California’s government work force is 57 percent unionized, nearly double the national average, and their compensation has increased faster than inflation and population growth.

Thanks to their obstruction, the government has continued to grow as the state borrows heavily while relying on accounting tricks to justify its existence. The state touted as a solution the early release of prisoners in August, which would result in $1 billion in savings. Welfare and MediCal, on the other hand, cost a combined $57 billion and are driving the state bankrupt.

The state has bitten off more than it can chew. In an interview with The Examiner, Campbell puts it delicately: “We were overly optimistic about the revenue from the income tax and the sales tax.”

He goes on to describe that this is what comes of relying on a mere 3 percent of taxpayers to fuel 50 percent of revenue from income tax. When the stock market dives, so does the eighth-largest economy in the world.

“California companies are building factories and expanding in Washington state, Nevada, Texas and Oregon,” Campbell sighs. With regulations that require employers to pay overtime after eight hours of work (as opposed to after 40 hours like in most other states, which would allow shifts to be distributed according to need), he describes the business climate as “poor.”

To comply with the state’s general plan for building residential units, for example, construction companies must build close enough to mass transit as determined by the state Air Resources Board to avoid the production of greenhouse gases.

California’s politicians have decided to spend every dollar the state gets (and many it doesn’t get) to finance an ever-expanding menu of programs to meet every citizens’ whim.

California now has the lowest credit rating of the 50 states, the consequence, it appears, of a government that can’t say no to special interests.
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November 15, 2009 9:21am
muppet

Mike Tan doing a “Hone.”
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November 15, 2009 9:23am
Redbaiter

“It’s generally accepted that violent behaviour is on the increase. Violent language?”

As usual, this odious lying Stalinist slithers around Kiwiblog chipping away at freedom of expression, especially that which criticises statists like him and his country wrecking policies.
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November 15, 2009 9:24am
Patrick Starr

Interesting that nearly 60% of the UK Times readers don’t believe in anthropogenic global warming

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6916648.ece

this is consistent with the recent Pew Research Center poll showing a massive decline in belief in AGW in the states

http://people-press.org/report/556/global-warming

(The tide is turning so to speak)
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November 15, 2009 9:32am
Viking2

Another scalp to Whaleoil and a sving of $200k to the taxpayer. We need lots more of this type of affirmative action.

Audit shows too much jet-setting
8:09 AM Sunday Nov 15, 2009

An anti-smoking group has lost its taxpayer funding after audits revealed its director took a string of international jaunts.

Audits of Te Reo Marama found that international travel counted for a large chunk of the organisation’s spending, and led to the Ministry of Health pulling $200,000 a year funding.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10609358
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November 15, 2009 9:34am
Pete George

Interesting that nearly 60% of the UK Times readers don’t believe in anthropogenic global warming

Interesting distortion of the survey.

Only 41 per cent accept as an established scientific fact that global warming is taking place and is largely man-made. Almost a third (32 per cent) believe that the link is not yet proved; 8 per cent say that it is environmentalist propaganda to blame man and 15 per cent say that the world is not warming.

41% think it is taking place, 32% don’t think it is proven yet (not surprising) – only 23% said it is propaganda or it is not warming.
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November 15, 2009 9:44am
Patrick Starr

geez pete, are you thick? – its not whether GW is happenening, its whether its AGW
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November 15, 2009 9:46am
Brian Smaller

pdm – I thought the committment of the Italians was superb. The ABs probably should have been down to about ten men the way they infringed in that last five minutes. Only one try against Italy said a lot about their defence. We had better pick our game up next week for sure.
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November 15, 2009 10:00am
Pete George

global warming is taking place and is largely man-made

Are you suggesting that isn’t AGW??
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November 15, 2009 10:02am
starboard

The nerve and stupidity of this bitch to pull a face and swear at me when i told her to look out for the little one!

yeah I would have told you to get fucked as well..you seem like a large toss pot.
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November 15, 2009 10:02am
reid

“Interesting that nearly 60% of the UK Times readers don’t believe in anthropogenic global warming”

Will be interesting to view the trend line over time. Wonder what that exact same survey would yield over here? A great demonstration of the old adage: “You can fool some of the people…”

Pete, your deliberate obfuscation of Patrick’s point is transparent. Suggest you discontinue lest you want us to think you really are thicker than a whale omelet.
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November 15, 2009 10:16am
Redbaiter

” you really are thicker than a whale omelet.”

He’s not thick, he’s slimy and deceitful. His whole reason for being here is to hide the truth and promote Progressivism under a cloak of “reasonableness”. A typical Fabian socialist who won’t be happy until we are all under the thumb of the left wing totalitarianism he sees as Utopia.
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November 15, 2009 10:24am
pdm

Brian Smaller – the AB’s were given fair warning when the Italians were here that their forwards would be tough in Milan. I thought the selection of the side was poor, no on field leadership and a front row that was always going to be under pressure. From what I have seen over the last two weeks the England scrum will not be as good as Italy’s so why were we saving Woodcock and Franks our two best props.

Because I watched the AB game I only saw about 20 minutes overall of England today (Sat) but saw all of last weeks game against Australia. They rely on Wilkinson for points but with a favourable ref like Bryce Lawrence was last week they will be hard to beat. Actually they got a bit of help from the ref today in the last 10 minutes when he didn’t penalise them and probably bin at least one for lying on the ball at the tackle.
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November 15, 2009 10:25am
Owen McShane

Most of the science of the IPCC report is not controversial. The only crucial chapter is Chapter 9 (on “Attribution”), in which the IPCC attempts to show that 20th century warming was anthropogenic. It was written by only 9 scientists and is dominated by a tightly controlled clique whose members referee each others’ papers and consider ‘attribution studies’ as their private fiefdom.

So the huge consensus if IPCC scientists we hear so much about comes down to nine.

On the other hand there is the single US skeptical petition signed by over 31,000 scientists and engineers.
Some consensus. A gaggle of nine geese is not a scientific consensus – insofar as there can be such a thing with a new theory.
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November 15, 2009 10:29am
MT_Tinman

reid (3351) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 15th, 2009 at 10:16 am

“Interesting that nearly 60% of the UK Times readers don’t believe in anthropogenic global warming”

Will be interesting to view the trend line over time. Wonder what that exact same survey would yield over here?

There can be no doubt what the survey would yield in NZ.

A bloody great cry of “What’s anthropogenic?”
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November 15, 2009 10:31am
Redbaiter

” So the huge consensus if IPCC scientists we hear so much about comes down to nine.”

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=b35c36a3-802a-23ad-46ec-6880767e7966

In 2004, history professor Naomi Oreskes performed a survey of research papers on climate change. Examining peer-reviewed papers published on the ISI Web of Science database from 1993 to 2003, she found a majority supported the “consensus view,” defined as humans were having at least some effect on global climate change. Oreskes’ work has been repeatedly cited, but as some of its data is now nearly 15 years old, its conclusions are becoming somewhat dated.

Medical researcher Dr. Klaus-Martin Schulte recently updated this research. Using the same database and search terms as Oreskes, he examined all papers published from 2004 to February 2007. The results have been submitted to the journal Energy and Environment, of which DailyTech has obtained a pre-publication copy. The figures are surprising.

Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers “implicit” endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%. However, while only 32 papers (6%) reject the consensus outright, the largest category (48%) are neutral papers, refusing to either accept or reject the hypothesis. This is no “consensus.”

The figures are even more shocking when one remembers the watered-down definition of consensus here. Not only does it not require supporting that man is the “primary” cause of warming, but it doesn’t require any belief or support for “catastrophic” global warming. In fact of all papers published in this period (2004 to February 2007), only a single one makes any reference to climate change leading to catastrophic results.

These changing viewpoints represent the advances in climate science over the past decade. While today we are even more certain the earth is warming, we are less certain about the root causes. More importantly, research has shown us that — whatever the cause may be — the amount of warming is unlikely to cause any great calamity for mankind or the planet itself.
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November 15, 2009 10:34am
Patrick Starr

pete, it may help if you put the entire quote in;

“Only 41 per cent accept as an established scientific fact that global warming is taking place and is largely man-made”

…………so do the rest believe its man made?
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November 15, 2009 10:37am
Viking2

Global Warming huh. Well its cold again today and the gos is that the Kiwifruit and avo’s in the bay are not pollinating because we had such a cold October. Like me they need some warmth.
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November 15, 2009 10:45am
democracymum

Michael Law’s opinion piece this morning is brilliant and sums up the last two weeks better than any journalistic ‘spin’.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/columnists/3063598/Hone-Harawira-makes-us-want-Helen-back
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November 15, 2009 10:48am
reid

Patrick, don’t worry, no-one with a 3-digit IQ would be taken in by pete’s transparent tactic…
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November 15, 2009 10:48am
Gulag

Is the Copenhagen treaty about creating a world government?
http://2gb.com.au/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=4998
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November 15, 2009 10:55am
democracymum

Once you have read Law’s piece, compare his truth telling to this pathetic excuse for racism from The SST Finlay MacDonald
UNBELIEVABLE…..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/opinion/3063196/The-mother-of-all-insults-yes-But-race-hate-No

“If genuine racial insult were intended it would be hard to argue against this. But before we start framing the debate in such unequivocal terms, perhaps we need to decide whether what Harawira said was really all that terrible.”
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November 15, 2009 10:58am
reid

Laws IMO is wrong on several points:

And his message is very clear too. If you are Maori, and you are at the bottom of the heap, then it is the direct fault of Pakeha. The concept of personal responsibility is alien. And given that the Maori Party leadership have, in the past, expressed similar sentiments, then they cannot expel the Te Tai Tokerau MP for his real crime.

Bzzzt. I thought hat the MP’s current position is that they WILL expel him unless he voluntarily resigns. When Turia and Sharples first came into Parliament I was one who thought they were nothing more than a Hone. As time has passed I’ve changed my mind. The MP does now talk about personal responsibility, quite frequently. Maybe not as often as some of us would like, but they do so increasingly. In politics you have to deal with the hand you’re dealt vis-a-vis your constituency and fact is, right or wrong, the decades of Maori radicalism have influenced many Maori with their poison. You can’t therefore as a politician just straight away come out with a formula that totally goes against that large body of opinion, you have to move slowly. Which they are. Give them a chance, is my view.

There is one point however on which I completely agree:

Similarly, the last vestige of credibility attached to our ridiculous race relations commissioner has deserted Joris de Bres this past week. He is desperate to do nothing despite his office receiving a record number of complaints. He is desperate not to be involved and has opined that this is best dealt with by the Maori Party.

I mean, de Bres has, by setting this precedent, given the HRC no room whatsoever to prosecute for S.61 breaches. Any skinhead or Maori radical or anyone else can now come out and say what they want and they can’t be censured in any way. What a complete and utter fool.
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November 15, 2009 11:00am
Redbaiter

Some common sense straight as a die criticism of Obama from Mark Levin-

—————————————————

Let’s look at the Recovery Act, a.k.a. the stimulus pork bill. Here are some statements from our delusional president

“If we don’t act swiftly and boldly, we could see a much deeper economic downturn that could lead to double-digit unemployment.” —January 2009.

“A full accounting of jobs created or saved thus far… yields estimates ranging from around 600,000 to 1.5 million… we are solidly on track to meet our goal of 3.5 million jobs saved or created by the end of next year.” — October 2009.

“Having brought the economy back from the brink, the question is, how are we going to make sure that people are getting back to work and able to support their families? … It’s not going to happen overnight, but we will not rest until we are succeeding in generating the jobs that this economy needs.” — November 2, 2009

That’s the flowery rhetoric. Here’s the grim reality: Obama’s Failed Stimulus in Pictures: 10.2% Unemployment

If job growth is the overriding focus of Obama’s administration, than Barack Hussein Obama is a failure of the highest order. Every month since passing of the $787 billion stimulus pork bill, the unemployment rate has in actuality been higher with the bill than what “experts” predicted in theory without the bill.

The stimulus bill didn’t “bring the economy back from the brink,” as Obama says at least once a week. The economy is worse despite the stimulus bill than it was predicted to be without it.
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November 15, 2009 11:04am
reid

A campaign video format which all politicians should follow.
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November 15, 2009 11:27am
reid

What’s also interesting in that Times AGW article is the use of propaganda by the “authorities.”

Vicky Pope, head of climate change advice at the Met Office, said that growing awareness of the scale of the problem appeared to be resulting in people taking refuge in denial.

Ed Miliband, the Energy and Climate Change Secretary, said: “The overwhelming body of scientific information is stacked up against the deniers…

Clear and present propaganda technique but straight under the radar for the useful idiots.
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November 15, 2009 11:42am
Pete George

…………so do the rest believe its man made?

41% accept as an established scientific fact that global warming is taking place and is largely man-made

8% say that it is environmentalist propaganda to blame man
15% say that the world is not warming
= 23%

32% believe that the link is not yet proved

4% presumably rounding and/or no response

A significant majority of those who have made up their minds believe the majority of scientists.
23% say they don’t believe in anthropogenic global warming (not the “nearly 60%” you claim)
32% could be anywhere between “probably not” to “probably but not certain yet”.
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November 15, 2009 11:57am
starboard

..what a limp dick finlay macdonald is…sickly white liberal to the max…
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November 15, 2009 11:59am
Repton

The only crucial chapter is Chapter 9 (on “Attribution”), in which the IPCC attempts to show that 20th century warming was anthropogenic. It was written by only 9 scientists and is dominated by a tightly controlled clique whose members referee each others’ papers and consider ‘attribution studies’ as their private fiefdom.

You can download chapter 9 from here: http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/publications_ipcc_fourth_assessment_report_wg1_report_the_physical_science_basis.htm

It lists 2 coordinating lead authors, 7 lead authors and 44 contributing authors. The references cover about 9 pages and a very large number of authors (I’m not going to count them for you).

I guess your “9 scientists” is the 2 coordinators and 7 lead authors, but, well, so what? It’s pretty clearly impractical to have fifty people all jointly write a paper; you need to have some level of organisation.

What is your evidence that the lead authors all referee each others’ papers?
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November 15, 2009 12:20pm
Patrick Starr

“do the rest believe its man made?”
whether some think its not adequately proven is neither here nor there, at this point nearly 60% dont believe its man made
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November 15, 2009 12:30pm
malcolm

That’s the flowery rhetoric. Here’s the grim reality: Obama’s Failed Stimulus in Pictures: 10.2% Unemployment

If job growth is the overriding focus of Obama’s administration, than Barack Hussein Obama is a failure of the highest order. Every month since passing of the $787 billion stimulus pork bill, the unemployment rate has in actuality been higher with the bill than what “experts” predicted in theory without the bill.

You’re assuming your unnamed “expert” predictions about unemployment in the absence of a stimulus package would have transpired. That’s pure conjecture. And there were plenty of predictions much worse that 10%, so why ignore those? Unemployment at 10.2% is very mild considering the severity of the recession in the US (second only to the Great Depression when unemployment exceeded 25%).

There’s plenty of theory behind the stimulus idea and most developed countries (including NZ) has done a bit of it. I’m not saying all stimulus spending is good (cash-for-clunkers seems to be a net destroyer of wealth), but the theory is sound.

If you just want to criticise the Obama administration, there are plenty of legitimate areas (dumb tariffs on Chinese tyres etc). There’s no need to clutch at straws.
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November 15, 2009 12:38pm
reid

As Gulag said @10:59, the critical question is what will Copenhagen mean to the world? Forget the conspiracy theory, listen to what Lord Monkton says about it then read what it says. The science debate is a side-show by comparison.

Once again, more evidence that loopy lefties who pretend to give a fuck about the human condition have been completely taken in by childishly simplistic propaganda.

BTW a minor point raised by Jones at the beginning of that interview is also true here: how come journos don’t ask politicians what AGW means in terms of tax and other costs? No-one asks, and no-one tells. How very peculiar.
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November 15, 2009 12:54pm
Luc Hansen

From David Green, Counterpunch:

I doubt anyone has ever reminded us of this ongoing danger more eloquently than did the famous American diplomat, George Kennan, when he wrote: “The counsels of impatience and hatred can always be supported by the crudest and cheapest symbols; for the counsels of moderation, the reasons are often intricate, rather than emotional, and difficult to explain. And so the chauvinists of all times and places go their appointed way: plucking the easy fruits, reaping the little triumphs of the day at the expense of someone else tomorrow, deluging in noise and filth anyone who gets in their way, dancing their reckless dance on the prospects for human progress, drawing the shadow of a great doubt over the validity of democratic institutions. And until peoples learn to spot the fanning of mass emotions and the sowing of bitterness, suspicion, and intolerance as crimes in themselves – as perhaps the greatest disservice that can be done to the cause of popular government – this sort of thing will continue to occur.”

The phrase “deluging in noise and filth anyone who gets in their way” just seemed so apt here, somehow.
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November 15, 2009 1:04pm
Pete George

Using your method Patrick you could also say that 92% don’t say it is environmentalist propaganda to blame man, and 85% don’t say the world is not warming.
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November 15, 2009 1:07pm
reid

The phrase “deluging in noise and filth anyone who gets in their way” just seemed so apt here, somehow.

I agree, Luc. Isn’t it a shame that scumbag lefties do this, all the time? I mean it wouldn’t be so bad if their loopy opinions were sometimes correct but they never are, yet they defend them with such vociferous intensity, one has to conclude the idiots actually in fact believe them. If only they weren’t so nasty with it as well, but there we are.

Clearly, lefties are the worst people in the world, as they “dance their reckless dance on the prospects for human progress, drawing the shadow of a great doubt over the validity of democratic institutions.”
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November 15, 2009 1:10pm
johnbt

A story on the front page of the Dompost last week about scientific researchers in Antarctica stated that the increase in the amount of ice was due to global warming. Also, the hole in the ozone layer that increases the temperature in NZ makes it colder in Antarctica. The best bit was that 15 million sq km out of 18 million sq km of this floating ice melts each summer and somehow does not flood the Pacific but any additional melting will. Apparently, the balance of evidence of global warming is completely overwhelming. Whatever.
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November 15, 2009 1:24pm
reid

Further to my 1:10, it’s just so predictable that when the consequences of the left’s useful idiocy descends upon the world in the form of Copenhagen and Lisbon they’ll be the first to stand up and weep and wail they weally didn’t know what they were doing and they weally didn’t mean to lead the world into the global dictatorship that those treaties will germinate.

“We weally thought we were just helping the planet” they’ll wail as they wring their useless hands with despair at their complete and utter stupidity. The profound implications of the fact that the AGW myth has as its foundation premise the argument that humans are a disease on the planet will escape them until the noose has closed around their useless pathetic necks.

I only wish I wasn’t forced by them to travel the same fatal road to slavery and that there was a means to escape. Sadly that’s not the case but don’t expect me to go down without pointing out to you idiots your profound errors at each and every opportunity, and in the face of your complete idiocy, don’t expect me to be polite about it, either.
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November 15, 2009 1:28pm
Patrick Starr

Pete George, thats right, they didnt – so whats your point?
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November 15, 2009 1:49pm
MikeNZ

Is another Domino to fall?
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/11/al_qaeda_opens_new_t.php

At least Ft Hood has some talking about the real issue in the West with Terror.
http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/it_isnt_political_correctness.html

For those who follow ,links and actually read them a mass of good points why we should beware the UN
http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/islamism_or_islam_islamist_or.html
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November 15, 2009 1:53pm
Luc Hansen

John, the article seems pretty clear in stating the new research greatly adds to our understanding of global warming and, importantly, it’s findings are completely consistent with the current scientific consensus.

The article explains the hole in the ozone layer and the protection afforded by the ice shelves act to mitigate global warming. But it is only a temporary phenomenon.

The melting of floating ice does not add to ocean levels but melting land ice will eventually have far reaching effects. It could take up to 100 years for this melting to occur, but I think it is pretty well certain that at least some is and will continue to melt and for some the effects will be catastrophic. At a minimum, we are look at large scale population movements to escape the higher sea levels.

Global warming is established fact. You can argue till the cows come home now much is anthropogenic, but I think it’s impossible to look at our modern practices and NOT think that it is having some effect. There is enough evidence for anthropogenic causes that the application of the precautionary principle means we would be derelict in our duties to future generations not to start altering our behaviour.

Part of the problem, no doubt, is that much of the long term mitigation of GW seems suspiciously like green, lefty, long haired dope smoking, orgy-indulging sexual deviants, like Jeanette Fitzsimons. 😉 It’s just galling to have to think they were right all along, but there you go.

The future is going to see less, and much more expensive air travel, less large scale mass production and long distance transport and more of localised, small scale endeavours. And I hate to say it, but meat eating will probably become recognised as extremely wasteful as well as simply unnecessary.

It won’t bother me because by then I will be doing my final unselfish act in the great scheme of things by having my ashes distributed on the nearest vegetable garden.
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November 15, 2009 2:14pm
Hurf Durf

Bloody hell, look at him. He’s nearly horizontal.
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November 15, 2009 3:00pm
MikeNZ

HD
I think it is a little bit less than that he gave the Saudi King but then he is an Islamic Monarch set up by the British.

Do you think it might be linked to how much of America’s script they hold?
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November 15, 2009 3:05pm
MikeNZ

It’s a funny old world, seems most of us eat Muslim meat having been killed and blessed to their god.
But some aren’t standing for that.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/3062033/Meatworks-pledges-Christian-kill

Seems Matt Macarten says constitutionally the Maori party can’t expel him.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10609394

But Paul Holmes is decidedly on the button on it, but clearly doesn’t know what Matt does.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10609394
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November 15, 2009 3:09pm
Banana Llama

I’m going to LMAO when all the lefty activists get put up against the wall and what ever mouthpiece for the world government comes out and says “no more revolution the situation has become normalized”
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November 15, 2009 3:18pm
mike tan

Wow, starboard + 7 other people are hostile towards me for harbouring genuine concern over the safety of a helpless child

Good on you for exposing yourselves as defenders of the parents who take no responsibility for the safety of their children
If you are drawing some sort of parallel between my experience and the anti-smacking law (which i oppose), then you couldn’t be more short sighted / ethically and morally irresponsible
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November 15, 2009 5:37pm
mike tan

Or did your stained glasses mis intepret what i wrote as an attack on all asian people? “Fishing” for racism is what we call it

By pretending the problem doesn’t exist, and that i am merely trying to cause trouble, you are defending the likes of Kahui etc
All those who gave negative karma, please expose yourselves as starboard has done, for the purpose of diminishing any credibility you might have had.

Thanks
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November 15, 2009 5:46pm
Steve

Quardle Ooodle Ardle Waddle, where the fuck are you? Mc Doodles?
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November 15, 2009 7:32pm
Steve

Fuck me the devil dodgers got him didn’t they?
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November 15, 2009 7:34pm
malcolm

Or did your stained glasses mis intepret what i wrote as an attack on all asian people? “Fishing” for racism is what we call it

Yes, I think they probably did.
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November 15, 2009 7:36pm
Komata

Further to MikeNZ’s postings – and just to bring it right home to little old New Zealand:

I have a niece, mid-thirties age-group, Maori, intelligent, a Kohanga Reo teacher. Lovely lady.

She embraced Islam some five or so years ago, and has since become increasingly militant, proudly telling her Aunty recently that there are now 63,000 Muslims in New Zealand, and that 2000 of those are Maori – and that her religion is actively trying to recruit more Maori- especially in the prisons!!

Folks, in the light of MikeNZ’s postings, this nation (New Zealand) now has a growing problem – especially as the numbers of Muslims in New Zealand are rapidly increasing; the fact that more individuals of that religious-persuasion are clamouring to get in (and increase their influence in NZ) being indicative of this – and NOT accidental!!

The ‘refugees’ and boat-people have been a very convenient and deliberate smokescreen – which the government of Dear Leader embraced with enthusiastically (aided and abetted by the UN- funny that)

Imagine, militant Maori Muslims – Hone wouldn’t have a chance (unless he converted to the ‘chosen’ faith)

While I personally don’t believe that this country will become ‘Islamic’, (although they would want it otherwise), I wonder what it will take before we all wake up as a nation to Islam’s threat (the fifth-column amongst us) – and have the courage to do something about it?

No doubt the socialists will yell and scream – never realising that, under Islam they would be ‘eliminated’

We have been well warned. . .

(Watches as liberal, trendy-lefties now emerge the woodwork and protest loudly and long about how wrong, how unfair, how ‘religiously-intolerant’ I have been. Wait for it . . . )
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November 15, 2009 7:53pm
malcolm

Komata, that’s an interesting story. Are you able to give any more information on why your niece became a Muslim? What is the appeal for her?
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November 15, 2009 8:04pm
Southern Raider

Komata have you seen the demographic projections for France and many other European countries to become Islamic Republics in the next 20 years?

Very scary stuff.
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November 15, 2009 8:40pm
Repton

@Southern Raider:

Komata have you seen the demographic projections for France and many other European countries to become Islamic Republics in the next 20 years?

I haven’t. Where can I find these projections?
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November 15, 2009 9:12pm
Komata

Malcolm:

No, unfortunately I can’t – I have never been able to get a straight answer from her about this. As best as we can make out she seems to believe it is ‘liberating’ for women to be Muslim and has really taken the whole Islamic-belief thing ‘to heart’. The curious thing for us as onlookers is that she is a very intelligent person, with a very supportive (single parent) family and whanau – most odd.

Southern Raider

Yes, I have seen the figures and projections – and yes it IS scary. The achievement of ‘one islamic world’ is occurring as we watch, yet ‘the West’ is still asleep, unaware of the threat within. Unfortunately, it is almost at the ‘tipping-point’ stage, where even if they wanted to, the EU governments will not be able to reverse the process – there will simply be too many muslims to be able to resist the process.(As Enoch Powell warned would happen – remember, back in the ’60’s)

Evidence of this is the ease with which dissenters are squashed because ‘Islam’ mustn’t be offended.

Unfortunately, because of this, and baring some sort of absolute miracle (not impossible, even in the 21st-Century), Churchill’s comment about ‘the lights going out all over Europe’ will probably become a reality in our lifetime – though not in the manner that Churchill originally intended.

Meanwhile, it seems that New Zealand snores on, until one day . . . – and no, we aren’t going to escape – islam is especially oposed and determined to destroy those countries which compose the British Commonwealth (which, in case some have forgotten, we are part of).

We certainly live in interesting times, so watch this space.
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November 15, 2009 9:19pm
philu

“..so watch this space..”

wot..!

that vast empty echoing space between your ears..?

you utter raving fucken loon..!

“..islam is especially oposed and determined to destroy those countries which compose the British Commonwealth ..”

yeah..!..you often hear that..

and hey..!

don’t be bashful..

give us the links/evidence of these (alarming) ‘projections’ you ‘ave seen’..

eh..?

they didn’t just suddenly appear in your vast empty echoing space..?..

did they..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 15, 2009 9:27pm
malcolm

Thanks Komata.

The curious thing for us as onlookers is that she is a very intelligent person, with a very supportive (single parent) family and whanau – most odd.

In my experience it’s usually intelligent and apparently happy people who get enticed into a religion. I’ve never seen the appeal myself. I’ve heard about the phenomena of Maori Muslims but it just seems like an odd fit. Almost an opposites attract type thing.

I saw a lot white Muslim women when I lived in East London. They were invariable born and breed East End women who’d married a Muslim and converted to Islam. Probably says more about the quality of East End males than anything.
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November 15, 2009 9:37pm
Southern Raider

Repton see this link and watch the video http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/demographics.asp

Note this website is actually trying to dispute the stats in the video. Claims there is no birthrate close to the 8.1 in France, but even the Palestinians are over an average of 8.

Seems an irony that the muslims “escape” their home countries because of issues fundamentally caused by their religion and then want to then transplant this religion in their new countries. Seems in a few years they will then we moving again.
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November 15, 2009 9:38pm
dad4justice

“you utter raving fucken loon..!”

Phool has blown another bong, priceless coming from the melt down lefty turnip.
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November 15, 2009 9:41pm
Hurf Durf

Phool’s conscious!
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November 15, 2009 9:47pm
philu

hey..!..empty-head..!

the link you provide is from a site called snopes..

which is dedicated to ferreting out/calling the bullshit on the internet..

and their verdict on this vid you claim as evidence for yr whacky/paranoid/racism-driven claims..?

‘..the information presented in the video is incorrect unsubstantiated or misrepresented’..

good one einstein..!

(i think that’s called shooting yourself in the foot..eh..?..)

(and all yr own work..eh..?

brillliant..!..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 15, 2009 9:50pm
philu

watch a lot of fox news..?..do ya..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 15, 2009 9:52pm
dad4justice

Fox news is far better than Bong news.
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November 15, 2009 9:56pm
philu

i see you are making as much sense as usual..

you demented ginge..

(still knecking multiple meds..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 15, 2009 10:02pm
dad4justice

Are you casing another chemist shop?
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November 15, 2009 10:04pm
Hurf Durf

Phool’s back from another productive night breaking into old ladies’ houses so the adrenaline is still flowing.
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November 15, 2009 10:14pm
Luc Hansen

And of course comments have been disabled on the video’s youtube posting. It’s pretty obvious why – the creators didn’t want facts to get in the way of a good scaremongering.

I think the most disappointing post here today, though, is that from Owen McShane, who in my opinion is deserving of a fair measure of respect for some of his contributions to public debates, especially on town planning/resource management issues yet entered the fray today with a snide inaccurate and deliberately misleading sideswipe at the IPCC.
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November 15, 2009 10:42pm
Luc Hansen

komata

While I personally don’t believe that this country will become ‘Islamic’, (although they would want it otherwise), I wonder what it will take before we all wake up as a nation to Islam’s threat (the fifth-column amongst us) – and have the courage to do something about it?

What do you suggest? Inquisitions? Burning at the stake? Prohibition (like that works so well for drugs!)?

Just curious.
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November 15, 2009 10:46pm
Luc Hansen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

Don Melvin writes that, excluding Russia, Europe’s Muslim population will double by 2020. He also says that in 2005, almost 85% of Europe’s total population growth in 2005 was due to immigration in general.[18][20] Omer Taspinar predicts that the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim will shrink by 3.5%, due to the higher Muslim birth rate.[21] Esther Pan predicts that, by 2050, one in five Europeans will likely be Muslim.[21][22]Professor Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe’s population. But Jenkins admits this figure does not take account of the large birthrates amongst Europe’s immigrant Christians.[23] Additionally, this estimation depends more on the supposed inevitability of the increase of Muslim population in the West and one person’s research on the future of Europeans. Therefore, while Jenkins’ estimation should be considered in the process of predicting what it would be like to live in the West in the year 2100, it should also be raising doubts about the entire European population.

Other analysts are skeptical about the given forecast and the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, since sharp decrease in Muslim fertility rates[24] and the limiting of immigrants coming in to Europe, which will lead to Muslim population increasing slowly in the coming years to eventually stagnation and decline. Others point to overestimated number and exaggeration of the Muslim growth rate.[25]

Southern Raider, the CIA Factbook gives the fertility rate (number of children per woman) of Palestinians as 5:1 in Gaza and 3.22:1 in the West Bank. The best I could find for Palestinians in Israel was for 2004, when it was 4.7 but declining. That would seem to be a long way from the 8:1 you claim. Maybe you can provide your source?
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November 15, 2009 11:16pm
llew

Patrick Starr (3447) Vote: 8 5 Says:
November 15th, 2009 at 9:46 am
geez pete, are you thick? – its not whether GW is happenening, its whether its AGW

Personally, I’m more interested in whether it’s happening than what is causing it. Closely followed by: Is it bad? And is there anything we can do about it?
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November 16, 2009 3:04pm

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