General Debate 30 October 2009

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Redbaiter

Religious charlatans have a long way to go to catch up to Marxists. Here’s the reality of socialism.

Herald article by Brian Fallow-

“Government debt will climb to intolerable levels ($100 billion per annum IN INTEREST ALONE) by the middle of the century on present policy settings and this is a problem that we cannot simply grow – or tax – our way out of, according to Treasury projections of the long-run fiscal outlook.”

Still its believers and their political representatives press onwards completely ignoring the easily predictable outcomes.

At the same time as they question the sanity of the followers of the Destiny Church, and sneer at their faith in their leader, Marxists and socialists are destroying NZ’s economic future for the sake of their desperate irrational beliefs in a political system that has never worked and never will work.

Sir Arthur Tytler saw this coming 200 years ago when he said-

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.”

I listened to an Obama supporter the other day in a call to a radio host-

Caller- I voted for Obama cos he’s gonna gimme money.

Host- What money?

Caller- Obama’s money.

Host- Where did Obama get it from?

Caller- I dunno. Obama’s got a stash.

Such is the mentality of those who vote for socialism, and such is the intellectual state of the poor ignorant uneducated deliberately dumbed down fools who are seduced by this religion as it is preached by a 100 or more Brian Tamakis sitting in our parliaments and most parliaments in the west and elected by those blindly indoctrinated knuckle draggers who would hold the same stupid and destructive beliefs as the Obama supporter above.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10606188

Read about judgement day for socialists.
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October 30, 2009 10:29am
MyNameIsJack

Someone remind me again why NZ troops are in Afghanistan propping up the Karzai kleptocracy? Karzai can’t even stop his own brother running drugs, what hope does Afghanistan have until this man is purged, preferrably by Afghanis, eg the Taliban?
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October 30, 2009 10:33am
fizzleplug

I’m a little teapot
Short and stout

Here is my handle
Here is my spout
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October 30, 2009 10:33am
Jack5

Forget the NBR DPF, we need the shop open early on Fridays for the Cthoniid exhibition.
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October 30, 2009 10:34am
malcolm

What’s the solution, RedBaiter?
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October 30, 2009 10:36am
MyNameIsJack

“Overall, cannabis use does not lead to major health problems.” So says Professor David Nutt, the government’s top adviser on drug classification, today describing suggestions that high-strength cannabis or skunk causes schizophrenia as a “scare” story.

(…)

Nevertheless, the government rejected the ACMD’s recommendation that cannabis remain at class C saying that it “believes” there is “growing evidence” of a strong causal link between cannabis and schizophrenia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/10/scientists_v_politicians.html

That’s what governments do, act on “beliëfs”, not science and facts.

And NZ is seeing a government unleash the most draconian and anti civil liberties laws since Orwell penned “1984”.
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October 30, 2009 10:37am
thedavincimode

MNI Jerk

They like the weather?
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October 30, 2009 10:43am
Pete George

Wanganui Mayor Michael Laws says giving the “underclass” money to be sterilised will address our child abuse problem.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3012655/Sterilise-underclass-to-stop-child-abuse-Michael-Laws
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October 30, 2009 10:43am
thedavincimode

Malcolm

Have you got a recipe for fucked duck?

But seriously, before jumping to conclusions we should always allow the police to do their work and investigate the matter properly. Ascertain the full facts etc etc blah blah …In this case however, I’m prepared to make an exception after all, its not as if he doesn’t have a spot of previous.

But the most interesting question to be asked here is why webfoot was wearing a helmet. What was he trying to protect?
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October 30, 2009 10:44am
thedavincimode

… and Pete …

Someone else that takes any notice of what Laws says? Goodness me!
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October 30, 2009 10:46am
malcolm

MyNameIsJack, Afghanistan? An utter waste of time, blood and gold.

Too backward and they love pointless feuding and fighting. It’s a culture from the dark ages. Leave them too it. Like drug addicts. They’ll only change when they want to. Give it another few hundred years.

Deal with any Al-Qaeda jamborees with the drones. I’m not really sure those training camps were all they were cracked up to be anyway. None of the recent acts of terrorism involved crawling under barbed wires and not an AK47 in site.
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October 30, 2009 10:47am
fizzleplug

[thedavincimode (508) Vote: 0 0 Says:
October 30th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Malcolm

Have you got a recipe for fucked duck?]

I have one. Never used, but bound to work.

Take one duck. Fuck.

Serve?
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October 30, 2009 10:49am
malcolm

Oh yes, Mr Mallard – just figured out your comment. Little thug.

I’ve only cooked duck once. I leave it to the the Chinese. They have that boiling-then-deep-fry technique perfected.
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October 30, 2009 10:55am
Bob R

Law’s suggestion is something a lot of family lawyers, GP’s & social workers would probably agree is a sensible idea.

As Steven Pinker wrote in the NY Times earlier this year, behavioural traits are significantly heritable and even if they weren’t, these kids being raised by terrible parents will end up like them.

Laws’ suggestion is sensible to stop abuse – at the very least people should be offered incentives by WINZ to people to use contraception. There is a reciprocal obligation if you’re getting income from others to use contraception.

Otherwise you get a future demographic disaster as these kids end up in crime & leading dysfunctional lives.

People who hold utopian views about the perfectibility of some parents need to spend some time seeing the abuse of these kids.

In the US they have a programme for teen mum’s which has been quite effective.

“College Bound Sisters is designed to help girls achieve three goals – avoiding pregnancy; graduating from high school; and enrolling in college. It focuses on girls in two age groups: 12 to 14 years; and 15 to 18 years. Programme participants are required to have a sister who had a baby before age 18; they must never have been pregnant; should demonstrate a desire to attend college and be committed to attending the weekly meetings.”

http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.com/search_index.php?page=detail_news&news_id=79394
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October 30, 2009 11:02am
Chthoniid

Aah well, it’s Friday and after the power cut, some internet connectivity has been restored.

Here’s a croc shot I call
“Lurking in the lilies”
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v7/p404031312-5.jpg

This was taken on the Mary River up in the NT. I was photographing in a spot that has the highest density of salt water crocodiles in Australia.
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October 30, 2009 11:05am
thedavincimode

… and while I’m at it …

What is it about Rodney? What is wrong with these people? You would think after all that has gone on in the last few months, he might have taken a little bit of a reality check. Perhaps if he hadn’t worn his little yellow jacket no one would have noticed, but that isn’t really the point.

When it comes to the old back pocket, some of these people just refuse to accept that, right or wrong, perception is reality. When in the middle of the scrum of public opinion on MP and Ministerial costs and allowances, when the old cupboard’s looking a bit bare, and on the back of the slimy style of government that Key wants to differentiate this government from, when Key has said no freebies, Rodney sticks rigidly to his “entitlement”. Damn the torpedoes – we’re going down! Did Hide not think that there might be a degree of sensitivity about this little jaunt in the face of all this? What a fuckwit. Or does he just not care?

“Ooooh, its so hard to maintain a relationship”. Well, harden the fuck up Rodney or move your squeeze to Wellington. That’s what anyone else would do. There are lots of people that wind up in long distance and work-strained relationships and just have to deal with that. What’s so special about you? Don’t bleat about the pressure on your relationship to justify what you did. You took your “entitlement” so deal with it on that basis.

“Oooh, I can’t be a good minister if I don’t maintain my personal life”. FFS, you can’t be a good minister by looking like a bleating arse either.

Sometimes Rodney, whether you like it or not, when you are in business, a profession, or a position of public trust and responsibility, or government where you have to carry a mass of public opinion and confidence, and whether you think its fair or not, you just have to suck it up. Don’t be the nickel and dime man.
Ooooh, maybe you think it isn’t fair if you can’t take your “entitlement”? So what? My recollection from the last bout of publicity on this issue is that its questionable whether this “entitlement” is contractually-based in any event, and that there are a few question marks about the means by which it arose. I may be wrong but in any event, this is an issue of “leadership” and “credibility”, not “entitlement”. The fact that you grandstanded on “perks” when you entered parliament just makes you look even more stupid. Do you want people to take you seriously and actually achieve something in government? Is that worth twenty grand?

And this breaks on the same day that we find out that webfoot has fucked up yet again. What’s going on – is there some sort of stupidity competition running that the rest of us don’t know about?

If you were working for Key at Merrill Lynch, he would be kicking your sorry arse around the car park just for being a nickel and dime fuckwit and you would find that little bonus cheque a bit smaller or worse. That’s the real world Rodney, so get into it. Idiot.
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October 30, 2009 11:07am
gravedodger

This weather is just so nineteen fifties. Now for some real climate change with a dash of global warming please. My Tomatoe plants just waved a white flag and the bloody weather killed them anyway, hasn’t the bloody weather heard of the Geneva convention, Fascist bastards.
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October 30, 2009 11:08am
Ryan Sproull

How cool is Arnie?

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/28/schwarzeneggers-assembly-secret/

Sneaky.
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October 30, 2009 11:08am
Kris K

Pete George 10:43 am,

Wanganui Mayor Michael Laws says giving the “underclass” money to be sterilised will address our child abuse problem.

While we may shudder at such suggestions, is this any less moral than murdering over 18,000 infants in the womb every year?
Purely from a moral stance I would have less problem with optional sterilisation of an individual, versus the same individual (woman) having numerous abortions and/or numerous children to numerous men. These children adding to a social welfare dependent under-class, along with all the resultant implications that brings.

Of course, the other option is encouraging unmarried women, unable to care for their children, to put these children up for (closed) adoption. This would address many social issues, not the least of which being the reduction of the aging population and child abuse.
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October 30, 2009 11:10am
malcolm

Re Michael Law’s modest proposal. Some of these people have so little interest in the present, they’d probably give up their future parenthood for a very modest sum. Perhaps a lump of crystal meth?

I like the idea. There is even some interesting economics (now somewhat discredited) to support this idea, while simultaneously outraging anti-abortionist:

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf
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October 30, 2009 11:12am
Kris K

Chthoniid 11:05 am,

If a croc can look sexy, then this is the shot.
Excellent photo as usual.
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October 30, 2009 11:16am
reid

“Someone remind me again why NZ troops are in Afghanistan”

Er, Jack and malcolm, Afghanistan is about keeping the mad mullahs hands off of Pakistan’s nukes. It’s mission critical to world security, whatever you think of the possibility of victory or the tactics so far used…
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October 30, 2009 11:18am
Murray

Because your beloved Helen Elizabeth Clark put them there jackboot.

You didn’t bitch here then, don’t bitch here now.

If only someone had offer whatever spawned you 10k to get the snip what a better world we’d be living in.
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October 30, 2009 11:19am
Ryan Sproull

Er, Jack and malcolm, Afghanistan is about keeping the mad mullahs hands off of Pakistan’s nukes. It’s mission critical to world security, whatever you think of the possibility of victory or the tactics so far used…

That’s what it’s about now? Man, I can’t keep up.
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October 30, 2009 11:21am
Pete George

I’m not totally against Law’s suggestion. Promoting, even funding voluntary contraception and sterilisation isn’t a bad idea, neither is targeting more at risk demographics. But the way he presents this is not exactly clever, referring to “the underclass”, and saying “the children of beneficiaries, drug addicts and criminals had little chance in life” is far more sweeping than sensible.

Idea – 1
Arrogance – 0
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October 30, 2009 11:22am
Ryan Sproull

You didn’t bitch here then, don’t bitch here now.

/me bitched everywhere then.
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October 30, 2009 11:22am
jabba

gravedodger .. not wrong there, the misses took the dogs to agility last night and said it was bloody cold then a some ungodly our this morning, the bloody helicopter was back hovering over the kiwifruit vines near by. This global cooling is serious .. but it’s really nice now.
Great stuff from the Governator Ryan
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October 30, 2009 11:25am
malcolm

Reid, couldn’t that be more directly and effectively achieved from within Pakistan? It’s not like the Taleban have access to much more than home-made AK47’s.

And it wouldn’t require the futility of trying to drag Afghanistan through 1000 years of social development to create a liberal democracy.
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October 30, 2009 11:29am
reid

“That’s what it’s about now? Man, I can’t keep up.”

Well, that and heroin money, Ryan.
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October 30, 2009 11:32am
MT_Tinman

Met a fellow yesterday who’s job is to fly to and from the Antarctic for the summer.

Told me that his last flight the temperature down there, usually between 0 and 25 had risen to in excess of 50. (degrees Fahrenheit).

Bloody global warning.

.

.

Sorry, forgot.

Those numbers were below zero.

Quick – eat more cows!
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October 30, 2009 11:33am
Kris K

Ryan Sproull 11:08 am,

How cool is Arnie?
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/28/schwarzeneggers-assembly-secret/
Sneaky.

I always wondered what he meant in his movies when he said, “Hasta la vista, baby”, now I know.
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October 30, 2009 11:34am
Chthoniid

Thanks Kris- the idea behind the composition is to draw attention to that wonderful reptilian eye.
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October 30, 2009 11:36am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/the-cannabis-conundrumthe-other-paradox-is-that-schizophrenia-seems-to-be-disappearing-from-the-general-population-even-though-cannabis-use-has-increased-markedly-in-the-last-30-years/

“..If we look on the generous side, there is a likelihood that taking cannabis, particularly if you use a lot of it, will make you more prone to having psychotic experiences.

That includes schizophrenia.

But schizophrenia is a relatively rare condition .. so it’s very hard to be sure about its causation.

The analysis we came up with was that smokers of cannabis are about 2.6 times more likely to have a psychotic-like experience than non-smokers.

To put that figure in proportion, you are 20 times more likely to get lung cancer if you smoke tobacco than if you don’t.

The other paradox is that schizophrenia seems to be disappearing (from the general population)..

.. even though cannabis use has increased markedly in the last 30 years.

So, even though skunk has been around now for 10 years, there has been no upswing in schizophrenia.

In fact, where people have looked .. they haven’t found any evidence linking cannabis use in a population and schizophrenia.

Nevertheless, one of the key arguments in moving cannabis from class C to B was the concern that skunk would cause more psychosis..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 30, 2009 11:43am
Kris K

Pete George 11:22 am,

I’m not totally against Law’s suggestion. Promoting, even funding voluntary contraception and sterilisation isn’t a bad idea, neither is targeting more at risk demographics. But the way he presents this is not exactly clever, referring to “the underclass”, and saying “the children of beneficiaries, drug addicts and criminals had little chance in life” is far more sweeping than sensible.

While most of us can agree that Laws is about as subtle as fire-bombing an MP’s electorate office, who can argue with the accuracy of his statements; “the underclass”, and “the children of beneficiaries, drug addicts and criminals had little chance in life”?

At least we know exactly what he means, and exactly where he stands. If only more politicians were like this.
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October 30, 2009 11:43am
Pete George

Funny thing about that shot Chthoniid is that I had to figure out which way the head was pointing. I guess the lumps are behind the eyes.
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October 30, 2009 11:44am
MyNameIsJack

murray, you’ve hit your head far too many times with your hammer. Unlike you, my opinions don’t depend on which part is in government. I have consistently opposed opur intervention in Afghanistan.

Reid, as for your fatuous “Afghanistan is about keeping the mad mullahs hands off of Pakistan’s nukes”, when did that become the mission? Do YOU know more than Dianne Dernie?

Diane Dernie, the mother of war hero Ben Parkinson, 25, who lost both legs and suffered numerous other serious injuries in a bomb blast in Afghanistan three years ago, said: ‘I hope Jimmy Carr realises that these soldiers have lost their limbs fighting before he makes jokes like that. Soldiers are fighting for freedom of speech.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222917/Soldiers-join-outcry-Jimmy-Carrs-sick-amputee-joke.html#ixzz0VMqd52O6
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October 30, 2009 11:44am
Chthoniid

Pete- yep, the lumps are behind the eyes. I’ve got a good portfolio of different shots now.

The most amazing thing is watching these animals submerge. You have hundreds of kilograms of nasty carnivore. And as it slips under the water, displacing it with its mass, the water flows all over its bumps and scuts. Then when it slips under completely there is noting on the water surface- not a ripple or bubble. The hydrodynamics are incredible. You shouldn’t be able to sink so much mass under water and not leave a trace.
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October 30, 2009 11:49am
jabba

I still can’t tell Pete .. but if I was that close, I would give a shit (but possibly would), I would be gone burger (no offense philu)
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October 30, 2009 11:49am
Chthoniid

Jabba- here’s a complete head shot- should help orientate the lurker in the lilies
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v8/p541150814-5.jpg

You can tell this is a wild animal by the state of the teeth, and the sediment on the head. I’m not much into the croc basking on the river bank shot.
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October 30, 2009 11:56am
Kris K

Pete George 11:44 am,

Funny thing about that shot Chthoniid is that I had to figure out which way the head was pointing. I guess the lumps are behind the eyes.

I trust this isn’t something your missus has cause to complain about, Pete?
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October 30, 2009 11:56am
thedavincimode

Spideryman mentions reptilian eyes … and LOL straight away up pops the magpie – right on cue.

Worked on that script yet maggie? Sussed out the recipes. Or too busy copying all your little shiny bits? Gosh, Friday all ready – you really must just wonder where the time goes with so much to do.
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October 30, 2009 11:57am
Repton

Someone remind me again why NZ troops are in Afghanistan propping up the Karzai kleptocracy? Karzai can’t even stop his own brother running drugs, what hope does Afghanistan have until this man is purged, preferrably by Afghanis, eg the Taliban?

Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame) blogged about Afghanistan today. In a nutshell, his argument was: for democracy to work, you need a highly-educated population. Afghanistan does not have this (literacy rates are very low). So America should pull out most of their troops, forget about political change, and focus their money on universal education (with the understanding that if the Taliban or the warlords try to interfere, the marines will come back and kick their arse).

Eventually, you’ll get some educated adults who start businesses, the country starts getting richer, and then you can start talking about democracy.
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October 30, 2009 12:04pm
reid

Excellent news: burden of proof re: assets gained from crime shifts to the accused.

Let the confiscations begin.

Hopefully they’ll have the guts to start throwing crim families out of their homes. Hey, you don’t like it? Try not to beat, cheat, steal and deal then.
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October 30, 2009 12:05pm
Pete George

I trust this isn’t something your missus has cause to complain about

No, her eyes aren’t on top of her head, nor does she float almost submerged in dirty rivers, so I have figured out which way her head is pointing.

Reid – yep, agree on the asset move. It’s easy to prove lawful earnings.
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October 30, 2009 12:09pm
MyNameIsJack

And The National Socialists move us faster and faster towards a police state every day they are in office.

Move the burden of proof to the accused, remove the accused’s assets and thus ability to fund a defence. THAT’S democracy, John Key style.
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October 30, 2009 12:12pm
thedavincimode

Yes Repton – seems spot on to me.

They also live in a harsh, sparse and low technology environment where people have always had to be entirely self-sufficient and in which I expect healthcare is also a major issue. Combine those factors with a history of fierce independence, as witnessed by their response to the Poms and the Russkies dropping in uninvited in years gone by, and it isn’t really that hard to understand why there is always going to be a spot of bother in this region unless those issues are actually addressed. Do that, and you must have gone a long way to marginalising the baddies. You can’t eat dust. Why do foreign Governments not attack the real issues. That doesn’t mean that they can’t still take pot shots at the odd camel load of talibanis for a bit of sport now and again. The assumption that democracy is the silver bullet is silly. They actually need decent logistics and infrastructure to support the fundamental wellbeing and education of the people.
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October 30, 2009 12:22pm
reid

“police state”

Is Australia a police state jack?

That’s what they do over there – throw crim families out of their homes. Like I said, don’t do crime if you can’t handle it.
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October 30, 2009 12:26pm
MyNameIsJack

yes reid, in a lot of ways, Australia is a police state.

Did you know you can be prosecuted for carelessness in Oz? Just forget to pick up your bag when you leave a bus or train and its no longer lost property, its terrorism.

I ahve no problem with criminals being punished, but these new laws impose the punishment BEFORE the conviction. then again, that’s what your god does, too, isn’t it? Now wonder you’re in favour.
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October 30, 2009 12:34pm
grumpyoldhori

Thedavincimode, now come on be fair, how else would a short ugly little fucker like Hide get a lass who is young enough to be his daughter to spend any time with him unless there was something in it for her beyond looking down at Hide’s shiny dome.

Tsk,tsk, like other peasants you keep forgetting that your betters are entitled.
Now, who voted ACT because they would stop all that troughing ?
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October 30, 2009 12:45pm
Pete George

What’s up davinci? You’re making a lot of sense today.

I think a big problem with this excursion into Afghanistan is that the US raced in wanting to punch someone on the nose and then line them up for elections. They seem to have a lot of trouble thinking beyond their own world view. We are a lot more similar to the US, but imagine how well they would be received if they came in here and tried to force us to have a republic like theirs. When that sort of thing was last done here – it took a few wars and a few decades to settle down.
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October 30, 2009 12:51pm
Steve

Two great images Chthoniid. First the eye is looking for a phool to lecture. Second is a smile. Wonder what could be next?
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October 30, 2009 12:52pm
philu

here is the valedictory speech from sue bradford..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/sue-bradford-says-goodbye/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 30, 2009 12:57pm
Kris K

MyNameIsJack 12:34 pm,

I ahve no problem with criminals being punished, but these new laws impose the punishment BEFORE the conviction. then again, that’s what your god does, too, isn’t it? Now wonder you’re in favour.

The God of the Bible, Jack, only institutes the punishment after final sentencing. Prior to that there is an Advocate who has pre-paid your penalty. You just have to pay the judge a visit, fill out the requisite ‘paperwork’, and your sentence is quashed – no court, legal or related fees. Of course, if you fail to visit the judge in person to avail yourself of said offer, then you will indeed have to make full restitution for your crimes. I’d accept the offer if I was you, Jack, the benefits are truly ‘out of this world’.
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October 30, 2009 1:00pm
Pete George

Either way Kris, you lose all your possessions.
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October 30, 2009 1:05pm
davidp

Chthoniid… Nice images! I like the fly sitting on the right eyelid of the one coming out of the water… it ties in with your normal insect theme.

I’ve spent many an hour at Yellow Water and on the East Alligator photographing the local reptiles with a monopod and a long lens and I know just how hard it is to get sharp images with plenty of depth of field. Especially when it is 35deg in the shade, and 10 deg hotter in the sun.
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October 30, 2009 1:10pm
RightNow

MNIJ: are you worried they’re going to confiscate your property? I can’t think why else you might be defending this action.

It finally gives the police some clout to act against those closer to the top of the organisations. Otherwise the police remain in the position of only being able to get at the pawns who they can catch dealing etc, and who are easily replaced.
While there are no constraints on the criminals (who adapt quickly to new technologies such as encryption to avoid detection) our laws remain appropriate for crime fighting in the 1970’s. The crims advance technically a lot faster than our laws and policing methods, and that is a big big problem.
This measure is unlikely to get to the very top layers of the criminal organisations, but should get them a few steps closer.
Frankly, there will always be a trade-off between our civil liberties and the ability to fight crime. The reality is that the more civil liberties we have, the easier it is for criminals to do their thing, which ultimately leads to a worsening of society with more violence, drug problems and theft.
Want total liberty from the government? Expect to be frequently bashed and robbed.
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October 30, 2009 1:13pm
Chthoniid

Thanks davidp- yes, they are actually quite a difficult animal to photograph well. Some of this is because of the size- which generates a lot of depth-of-field problems. Some of the problem is that the long thin shape doesn’t suit a 3:2 sensor/film ratio well either.

I got most of my good shots on the water (Crocodylus Park lent me a boat and 2 assistants for the session). You can get a lot closer to many of the animals that way. But then you’ve got a shooting platform that’s always rocking and drifting. So there was no option to use a tripod or monopod. Mostly I pushed the ISO to 400 to get a very fast shutter speed, took a lot of frames, and ditched all that had too much blur.
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October 30, 2009 1:23pm
Fisiani

Anyone think it odd that Trevor Mallard is “attacked” by a driver and the driver promptly lays a complaint with the police. Anyone think it odd that in taking his foot of his bicycle his foot somehow managed to make inadvertent contact with the alleged assailant.
Methinks Pinocchio……
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October 30, 2009 1:39pm
thedavincimode

Sorry Pete.

No idea what happened. I think I’ll just duck off for a drink and sort myself out.

And Steve

Actually, I think that second shot was taken in the magpie’s bath.
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October 30, 2009 1:41pm
MyNameIsJack

Here we go again. The stupidity of the religious truly knows no bounds.

Kris K (881) Vote: 0 0 Says:

The God of the Bible, Jack, only institutes the punishment after final sentencing.

So the doctrine of original sin is crap?

Prior to that there is an Advocate who has pre-paid your penalty. You just have to pay the judge a visit, fill out the requisite ‘paperwork’, and your sentence is quashed – no court, legal or related fees.

What penalty is that? of what have I been convicted? I have lived a good and moral life, I just don’t like kissing god’s toes. tell me, kris, what have I done to be punished for?

And who is this advocate of whom you speak?
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October 30, 2009 1:44pm
MyNameIsJack

RightNow (372) Vote: 1 0 Says:

October 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
MNIJ: are you worried they’re going to confiscate your property? I can’t think why else you might be defending this action.

I thought I was opposing, not defending.

yes, I am worried my property may one day be confiscated, not because I am a criminal or drug dealer, but because these laws have a way of creeping in to all aspects of life.

I am opposing these laws on the grounds of civil liberties, the right to undisturbed possession of private property and the right to a fair trial before any legal sanctions are imposed – all good, honest, left wing values.
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October 30, 2009 1:49pm
RightNow

Oops my bad, I guess opposing was what I meant.
Tell me again why you’re worried? You surely have proof of income or similar?
I think your reference to the national socialist party moving us toward a police state is a bit off the mark too, since this was first suggested by Labour five years ago. I don’t believe this is as political as you’d like it to be, it’s just a bloody good move from any party in my opinion.
I see the threshold is $30k, so I don’t see it creeping in to all aspects of life as you suggest.
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October 30, 2009 2:18pm
RightNow

Forgot to address the last bit MNIJ:
“I am opposing these laws on the grounds of civil liberties, the right to undisturbed possession of private property and the right to a fair trial before any legal sanctions are imposed – all good, honest, left wing values.”

Very funny 8D
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October 30, 2009 2:22pm
RightNow

testing
🙂 🙂 :o) :] :3 :c) :> =]
😉 😉 *) ;]
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October 30, 2009 2:24pm
RightNow

testing more
😛 😛 :-p :p :-Þ :Þ :-b :b
:-O :O 😯
:-/ :/
>:) >:D }:) >:-)
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October 30, 2009 2:26pm
RightNow

Last test

=8-(
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October 30, 2009 2:27pm
RightNow

What a shame the Don King hairstyle doesn’t have a special smiley.
If anyone is wondering, the source list is from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons
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October 30, 2009 2:28pm
MyNameIsJack

RightNow (378) Vote: 1 0 Says:

October 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Oops my bad, I guess opposing was what I meant.
Tell me again why you’re worried? You surely have proof of income or similar?

Since I have done nothing wrong why should I have anything to prove?

I bet you’re one of those who line up to have your bag searched before you walk out of a shop.

Forgot to address the last bit MNIJ:
“I am opposing these laws on the grounds of civil liberties, the right to undisturbed possession of private property and the right to a fair trial before any legal sanctions are imposed – all good, honest, left wing values.”

Very funny 8D

laugh as much as you like, but I don’t see you espousing thise as right wing values. What do you have against civil liberties, the right to undisturbed possession of private property and the right to a fair trial before any legal sanctions are imposed?
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October 30, 2009 2:40pm
RightNow

I’m starting to think you really do have something to hide MNIJ. The police already know who they want to go after, and if you’re on the list then I hope they ruin you. Otherwise it sounds like you’re just another p addict with paranoia.

I’ve already put my thoughts on the balance of civil liberty vs police powers. It’s up the thread a bit. Are you becoming a libertarian now?
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October 30, 2009 2:51pm
MyNameIsJack

I have always been a civil libertarian.

remind me again why you are so opposed to freedom.
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October 30, 2009 2:55pm
senzafine

MNIJ:

IMO, one does NOT have the right to undisturbed possession of private property if the property in question has been obtained through illegal means. Now its odds on if you are a known criminal, that a large proportion of your property has been obtained in such a fashion.
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October 30, 2009 3:05pm
RightNow

MNIJ, I’m not opposed to freedom provided it doesn’t interfere with the freedoms of others. Criminals invade the freedom of others, and in return can expect to have their freedoms curtailed.
I’m not strictly ‘right wing’ and believe for everything there is a sliding scale as opposed to black and white. In this case the scale needs to be adjusted to get the right balance of freedom vs police powers. If it helps to erode the powers the gangs etc have (that impede on the freedom of others, BTW) then ultimately our society will be better for it.

I suppose you also object to having to pass a driving test before you drive a car on the grounds that nobody has yet proven you are an unsafe driver?
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October 30, 2009 3:24pm
MyNameIsJack

No, I don’t object to having a driver licence, but I DO most strongly object to being stopped by the police when going about my lawful business in a car. If my driving was erratic or dangerous to others, that would be one matter, but being forced to stop for no reason other than to prove I am innocent grates with my belief in the right to freedom from harrassment by the State. And jonkey’s just extended that infringement even further.
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October 30, 2009 3:34pm
RightNow

I also dislike being stopped for no other reason than to prove I’m innocent. Checkpoints really infringe on my freedom and are nothing more than harassment from the state.
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October 30, 2009 3:45pm
RightNow

I also think forcing me to pay taxes to provide welfare is infringing on my freedoms. It is my money, the state should be happy to receive payment only for services I choose, which wouldn’t include welfare. Those on welfare have the freedom to earn their own money, I don’t interfere with their right to do so.
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October 30, 2009 3:48pm
Pete George

Worse than harassment from drunken drivers?
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October 30, 2009 3:49pm
reid

Judge dismisses California eligibility challenge
Plaintiffs promise appeal of ruling protecting Obama
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October 30, 2009 5:54pm
nickb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPYd-htVNJg

Was looking for this! For anyone thats interested.
Today is a good day!
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October 30, 2009 6:19pm
Hurf Durf

Sean Penn acked to act as a Venezuelan stooge against US interests.

Chavez added that he discussed politics with Penn, who said he would soon see U.S. President Barack Obama. Chavez said he’d asked Penn to tell Obama he should take action to earn his Nobel Peace Prize , and should scrap a plan for the U.S. military to increase its presence at bases in Colombia.

“They gave him the Nobel Prize, very well, now he should earn it,” the socialist leader said, paraphrasing an open letter by documentary filmmaker Michael Moore to the U.S. president.

Chavez also applauded Moore’s work, and dismissed comments the director made during an interview with Jimmy Kimmel on ABC earlier this month. Moore said he’d drunk tequila with Chavez at the Venice Film Festival and offered the Venezuelan president suggestions for an upcoming speech at the United Nations .

And no doubt the little queef will answer the call.
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October 30, 2009 7:45pm
Viking2

Question: At what point does the accumulation of this so called wealth start to be differentiated from wealth that may be accumulated by say investment in a legitimate enterprise and the proceeds of the investment be either reinvested or taken for personal use.
e.g. someone a few years ago sold some dope, used that money to fund a business, never been in trouble with the law, reinvested that money from that business and spent some on themselves but the law turns up and says we want your assets.
where does this stop?
I mean plenty of land was stolen and thats a crime. Plenty of money is missing from various finance companies which if the Commerce Commission had the same powers could be recovered under the same proceeds of crime behavoir.
Where does this stop. At what point do the police have to prove to a court that the money comes from an illegal source especially given Parliaments propensity to alter laws almost weekly.
Almost everything in this country is illegal or could be made so quite easily by Parliament or use of the law developed through legal precedent. Law of unintended consequences.
Collins is dangerous. Doesn’t up hold the rights of Kiwi’s at all.
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October 30, 2009 8:40pm
Pete George

Just watched the Campbell/Richard Lewis interview and also the Hosking/Rodney Hide interview. Both came across as reasonable guys with reasonable explanations to most questions, and both said that the work they were doing was worth the expense.

Rodney is in a tricky situation, he can justify what he did as within the rules and as good for his relationship, but there is certainly a much softer tone on perks and expenses than there used to be. There is still a bit of a whif of taking advantage of a position of power.

I’m not a fan of religion generally, but I know a lot of churches do community good, and I think a lot of people get something out of being involved in Destiny and the church does seem to have some reasonable aims and is doing some positive things. But there is a whif of convenient interpretation when it comes to the money and exploitation/pressure of the vulnerable side of things (although the vulnerable seem to want this sort of thing anyway). And there is some potential danger in the one man adulation “cult” sort of thing that is slowly developing – but I doubt whether it is likely to get out of hand beyond the few thousand immediately involved with Destiny.
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October 30, 2009 9:53pm
transmogrifier

Interesting, in the last two days, we have seen widespread support in these comment sections for:

(a) compulsory DNA testing
(b) targeted sterilization
(c) guilty until proven innocent asset seizures

Awesome. Who needs freedom anyway?

Here’s an idea, you want to reduce the burden of welfare, offer less of it in the first place. If you want to reduce crime, work on making the country productive. If you want to eliminate gangs, bloody well arrest them for the crimes they have committed. In my opinion, the second you implement any of these three policies, it is basically an admission that we have given up trying to revolutionize our country, but instead are going to be satisfied running around with a giant broom sweeping up the mess for the foreseeable future, and personal freedoms be damned.

Stop threatening to peel away our basic individual rights, and then at the same time bemoan the loss of old New Zealand. Old New Zealand was never like this.
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October 30, 2009 10:05pm
transmogrifier

I hate politician perks. Just pay them a salary and let them live off it for God’s sake. Just because someone finds it difficult to bone his girlfriend as often as he would like doesn’t mean we should pay him 20 grand for the opportunity. Advice: want to spend more time with your family, choose another job, or harden up and work something out.

PS This goes for all parties, btw.
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October 30, 2009 10:08pm
Luc Hansen

I think it was Hurf Durf (wtf is the hidden meaning in that pseudonym?) (are the pseudonymous just a bunch of cowards?) who said the Greens should be dragged into the middle of the street and shot in the mouth.

May I politely, with my tongue just ever so slightly in my cheek, ask that Rodney Hide and Michael Laws be given the same treatment. At least then their respective, very attractive partners get to fuck real, enlightened, men.

Men like me 😉
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October 30, 2009 10:42pm
Hurf Durf

Maybe you could challenge phool in an arm wrestling contest, Puke, but certainly not anyone above that level.

Of course, then you’d just blame colonialist Jews again.
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October 30, 2009 10:50pm
Luc Hansen

Ah, Hurf, you know me so well 🙂

And the meaning of your so obscure alias?

Or do you prefer to hide behind the facade of an ignoramus?
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October 30, 2009 11:35pm

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