General Debate 26 October 2009

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Viking2

So the socialists are alive and propering in the National Party Govt. (no surprise there.)

Hide backs off restricting councils
4:00AM Monday Oct 26, 2009
By Bernard Orsman
Rodney Hide. Photo / Mark Mitchell
Rodney Hide. Photo / Mark Mitchell

Local Government Minister Rodney Hide has backed off from law changes to stop councils getting involved in social policies, such as pensioner housing, and force them to focus on core activities.

However, the Act leader is pressing ahead with plans to make councils open their financial books before the local body elections.

The move would mirror the Treasury’s pre-election fiscal update for central Government.

Mr Hide yesterday said he was conscious of working with a centrist, pragmatic National Party and needed its support to pass changes to the Local Government Act 2002.

That meant he was no longer pursuing the removal of the social, environmental and cultural “wellbeings” in the act that, he previously said, had pushed councils into providing services beyond their core role.

Mr Hide said proposed law changes going to the Cabinet tomorrow would bring greater financial accountability and transparency to councils, helping them to focus on core activities.

But the proposed legislation would not stop councils continuing to be involved in social policies, such as pensioner housing.

“If a community want something and are prepared to pay for it, that’s fine,” he said.

When Mr Hide began a review of core services in June, Prime Minister John Key said social policies were an important role for councils and Act’s policies did not necessarily reflect the Government’s view.

Labour’s local government spokesman, George Hawkins, was not surprised by Mr Hide’s change of heart.

“Common sense says councils play a major role in the community … This was a case of Rodney diving into a pool without any water in it,” said Mr Hawkins, a former Mayor of Papakura.

Mr Hide said the long-term council community plan was a huge, detailed, mid-term reporting process.

He is proposing that council chief executives produce a simpler overview of the council’s fiscal position before local body elections to inform everyone about issues confronting the community.

Legislation could be introduced before Christmas and passed for next year’s local body elections, he said.

The exercise has been driven by Mr Hide’s desire to stop big ratesrises.

After analysing the 2009-2019 long-term council community plans, he discovered overall operating costs would increase by 39 per cent over the next decade. During the same period, capital expenditure would total $31.4 billion and debt would rise to $10.8 billion.
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October 26, 2009 8:04am
nickb

Who knows when the second reading of the VSM bill is? Quite ironic its worked out near the end of the uni year, as all the little commies wont be able to scaremonger in the student magazines..
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October 26, 2009 8:04am
Viking2

The Great Quango Hunt

In 1985, New Zealand’s Attorney General, Sir Geoffrey Palmer, launched the ‘great quango hunt’. He threatened to strangle many of the useless ‘quasi autonomous national government organisations’. According to political reporter Jane Clifton, “Geoffrey got so excited about this, it was all staff could do to persuade him not to wear a pith helmet and safari suit to the press conference. Geoffrey had counted up hundreds, nay thousands of quangos – rabbit boards being among the most emblematic – wasting money. He was going to grub them out, root and branch. He was positively kittenish in his excitement. And what happened? The little buggers multiplied.”[1]

Appointments to quangos have traditionally been regarded ‘jobs for the boys’, a way that governments reward supporters for their loyalty and generosity. Most of the jobs are not advertised; instead the positions are filled largely from the recommendations of government MPs. This, of course leads to accusations of cronyism, especially when the appointments go to high profile party political activists.

In 2003, Finance Minister Michael Cullen flirted with the idea of hunting quangos, suggesting that some of the thousands of taxpayer funded jobs on quangos – that cost taxpayers millions of dollars each year – should be “axed”. At that time more than 3,000 people were serving on more than 400 tax payer funded quangos, with almost 1,000 appointments to these boards being made each year. Some of these positions were extremely lucrative, attracting salaries of more than $100,000 a year, while others provided meeting fees of almost $1,000 a day.[2]

However, Michael Cullen’s tough talk turned out to be just talk, as by July of last year, National MP Murray McCully reported on a “tsunami of cronies” being appointed by Labour to quangos ahead of the general election. With established constitutional convention preventing governments from making appointments to boards and public bodies in the three months before an election, the Labour Government had gone into overdrive filling 140 board positions in just five weeks.[3]

Included in this rush of appointments was then Labour Party President Mike Williams, who was being rewarded with a directorship of the New Zealand Transport Agency. This added to his directorships with GNS Science, Genesis Energy, OnTrack and ARTA, all of which earned him a tidy $140,000 a year of taxpayer’s money.

Other appointments made at the time included those to The Growth and Innovation Advisory Board, which read like a veritable who’s who of left wing activism: NZ Council of Trade Unions President Helen Kelly, former UK Labour MP Brian Gould (also a director of TVNZ), and Deloitte’s chair, Nick Main, “who has been doing the Clark Government’s bidding over the Emissions Trading Scheme as chair of the Business Council for Sustainable Development”. They joined former Labour candidate David Shand on the Board, who also held positions on the Tertiary Education Commission, Meridian Energy and the Royal Commission into Auckland Governance.

Following her “voluntary retirement” from Parliament, former Labour MP Diane Yates was rewarded with four appointments – worth around $80,000 – on the Boards of Food Standards Australia New Zealand, Trust Waikato, the Waikato Institute of Technology, and Learning Media Ltd.

And the former Race Relations Commissioner, Gregory Fortuin was also generously rewarded by Labour with appointments to the boards of NZ Post, Kiwibank, the Crown Forestry Rental Trust, Transpower, Industry New Zealand, and ACC (which, at the time, was chaired by the former head of the Council of Trade Unions, Ross Wilson).

While the new Government has made changes to some of the Board positions since taking office, the Cabinet Manual still specifies the appointments “should achieve appropriate gender, age, geographical and ethnic balance”. It explains that the Government “is particularly committed to appointing Maori, Pacific peoples and women to government bodies to improve balance in representation. Ministers preparing papers on appointments are invited to seek nominations for vacancies on boards from the Ministers of Maori Affairs, Pacific Island Affairs and Women’s Affairs. Te Puni Kokiri and the Ministry of Women’s Affairs have databases of suitable candidates that should be consulted, and the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs is able to suggest suitable candidates.”[4]

With ACC having recently announced what has been described as the biggest corporate loss in New Zealand’s history at $4.8 billion, it is vitally important that people are appointed to government boards on merit. That means the priority should be skill and expertise, not gender and race. However, the reality is that since we have just had nine years of Labour’s politically correct focus on ethnic and gender considerations rather than merit, not only should all boards and appointments, go under the microscope, but so too should departments and ministries.

In fact, in this time of economic constraint, Dr Greg Clydesdale, this week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator – an economist and senior lecturer in the Department of Management at Massey University – believes that a number of government agencies operating as tax-payer funded lobby groups, are long past their used-by date. He explains, “The National government is now considering areas where they can reduce government expenditure. I would like to draw attention to a class of government departments that have been created with the intention of maximizing welfare for certain groups of New Zealanders. These departments have admirable goals which they aim for by providing information and policy advice. They have now been in existence long enough to give us an idea if they have been successful in achieving their goals, or have they just become tax-payer funded lobby groups”.

In his article Dr Clydesdale focuses on the Ministry of Women’s Affairs, the Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs, and the Ministry of Ethnic Affairs. He explains, “These departments have many things in common. First, they are created in the belief that their existence will solve social and economic problems, but have failed to do so. Second, the continued existence of these problems is used as a justification for these departments to get tax payer money. Third, their role of advising the government places them in an advocacy role which is too frequently not neutral. This puts them in the role of tax-payer funded lobby groups.” To read the full article, click the sidebar link>>>

Back in July, John Whitehead, the Secretary of the Treasury, stated that some $40 billion of the government’s $65 billion budget could be better spent. He was essentially calling for massive cuts in government expenditure. Clearly this makes sense in the current economic climate – New Zealand is massively over-governed and this is an appropriate time to reduce government spending down to a level that will drive growth and prosperity rather than impede it.

To that end, Dr Clydesdale has pointed to taxpayer funded lobby groups as a good place start, but in addition, resurrecting Sir Geoffrey Palmer’s great quango hunt would certainly yield bountiful results. However, to hunt quangos, you must know what they look like, so in order to assist readers who may wish to advocate for an open season on quangos, I have visited Schedule 4 of the Public Finance Act 1989 – where most of them lurk – and listed them below![5]

This week’s poll asks:
Do you believe that it’s time for another quango hunt?
To vote click here>>>
(Readers comments will be posted here>>> daily)
To view last week’s comments click here>>>

Public Finance Act 1989 Fourth Schedule Organisations:

Agricultural and Marketing Research and Development Trust; Asia NZ Foundation; Auckland Transition Agency; Leadership Development Centre Trust; The Maori Trustee; National Pacific Radio Trust; NZ Fast Forward Ltd; NZ Fish and Game Council and Fish and Game Councils; NZ Game Bird Habitat Trust Board; NZ Government Property Corporation; NZ Lottery Grants Board; Ngai Tahu Ancillary Claims Trust; Pacific Co-operation Foundation; Pacific Island Business Development Trust; Research and Education Advanced Network NZ; Reserves Boards; Road Safety Trust; Sentencing Council; Accident Compensation Corporation; Accounting Standards Review Board; Agricultural Pests Destruction Council; Alcohol Advisory Council; Area Health Boards; Arts Council; Asia 2000 Foundation; The blood transfusion trust; Career Development and Transition Education Service; Careers Services; Casino Control Authority; Children’s Commissioner; Crown health enterprises; District health boards; Early Childhood Development Board; Earthquake Commission; Electoral Commission; Electricity Commission; Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority; Environmental Risk Management Authority; Families Commission; Fish and Game Councils; Government Superannuation Fund Authority; Guardians of NZ Superannuation; Health and Disability Commissioner; Health Funding Authority; Hillary Commission for Sport, Fitness, and Leisure; Hospital and health services; Housing NZ Corporation; Industry NZ; International Year of the Family Trust; Land Transport NZ; Land Transport Safety Authority of NZ; Learning Media Ltd; Legal Services Agency; Management Development Centre Trust; Māori Trustee; Maritime Safety Authority of NZ; Mental Health Commission; NZ Antarctic Institute; NZ Blood Service; NZ Fast Forward Ltd; NZ Fish and Game Council; NZ Game Bird Habitat Trust Board; NZ Milk Authority; NZ Sports Drug Agency, NZ Symphony Orchestra Ltd; NZ Symphony Orchestra; NZ Teachers Council; NZ Trade and Enterprise; NZ Trade Development Board; NZ Venture Investment Fund Ltd; Ngai Tahu Ancillary Claims Trust; Noxious Plants Council; Office of Film and Literature Classification; Pharmaceutical Management Agency; Power Company Ltd; Power Company Ltd; Public Health Commission; Public Trust; Queen Elizabeth the Second Arts Council of NZ; Race Relations Conciliator; Radio NZ Ltd; Regional health authorities; Residual Health Management Unit; 1993 Suffrage Centennial Year Trust; The Retirement Commissioner; Residual Health Management Unit; Sentencing Council; Skill NZ; Social Workers Registration Board; Special Education Service; Specialist Education Services Board; Sport and Recreation NZ; Takeovers Panel; Teacher Registration Board; Te Reo Whakapuaki Irirangi; Television NZ Ltd; Tertiary Education Commission; Tertiary Research Board; Transfund NZ; Trustees of the National Library; Valuation NZ Ltd; Wellington International Airport; Maritime NZ; Maritime Safety Authority of NZ; Research and Education Advanced Network NZ Ltd.
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October 26, 2009 8:06am
nickb

Good post Viking. 90% of the rubbish in that post you could cut and noone would even notice. FFS, we are only as big as medium sized international city, and look at all the rubbish we fund.
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October 26, 2009 8:10am
Viking2

Oh yeh but history shows that the present and past incumbents in the power position won’t do anything will they? Bill wants to rape all the rest of us tax payers for the benefit of the above. No wonder our standard of living is going down.

One could look at some recent examples of their behavoir to see that there is nothing gained but plenty spent.

I see that QV has now bought into property management. Looks like a great acquisition seeing as its lost money for the last couple of years. Now one supposes that the shareholding minister must have known this. Minister of SOE’s I think is Simon Power. Nat through and through. This acquisition doesn’t make for smaller Govt. but increases Govt.’s stake in the business world. Fortunatley there is plenty of competition in that market so that probably means that this new Dept. will get it’s arse kicked. Time to float it off.

People out there need to consider who they do business with. Support private enterprise and don’t support Govt funded businesses and businesses who rip off the taxpayer.
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October 26, 2009 8:30am
Ross Miller

Hmmmmmmm … it was really interesting to note that it was the President of the Labour Party who fronted TV last night over their parliamentary polling fiasco.

The job of a Party President is to manage the Party organisation (and go begging for dosh). The Parliamentary leader is the flag bearer for the Party; dishes out the spokesmanships and manages the caucus.

The shonky polling operation was managed from within caucus and funded from Goff’s budget.

So why didn’t Goff front?

And more interestingly … why did Little?

Drums, knives, BBQ season.
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October 26, 2009 8:48am
jackp

I think there are a lot of unproductive expenses in this government. I think the bureaucracy is the worst and it strangling the productivity and the reason for high taxes. I agree that in most international cities, John Key would be called mayor. Yet, there is so much waste in this government. To give you an example, the amount of employees that worked for the prime minister in the 50’s and 60’s were something like 6. Now it is above 400. Can’t you imagine the ripple affect this causes in government??? Billions wasted. In the 50’s New Zealand’s education and health were a model for the rest of the world. Now New Zealand is way down the list of the OECD. Just above some third world country. Shows you how much corruption is in government. This is why Rodney Hide says that the gdp could be down to 25 percent. Of course, didn’t it take thousands of years to beat the 4 minute mile just because the opinion of so called professionals were against it? I think taxpayers would see a big relief in their tax liabilities if this could happen.
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October 26, 2009 8:54am
Patrick Starr

viking2 – I take it you dont use twitter?
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October 26, 2009 8:55am
Luc Hansen

What’s the source of your cut and paste, viking?

Most of those organisations in your list perform valuable roles. People often forget a prime mover in making western civilisation was, in fact, the development of an effective bureaucracy.

Long live bureaucracy!!

(Dinky acronym there!)
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October 26, 2009 8:59am
philu

this is very funny..!

1) cop steals pot from people he has arrested..

2)..cop and wife make cookies from the pot..

3) they have too many of said cookies..

4) cop calls 911..to report they have overdosed on cookies..

“we think we’re dying here..!..”

(and you get to listen to the call..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/cop-and-wife-overdose-on-pot-cookiesmade-from-pot-he-stole-and-call-911/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 26, 2009 9:09am
Viking2

Patrick, prefer not to waste money on the frivolous and have yet to have anyone give me a good reason to use it. Barely use texts for the same reason. Actually prefer to speak to people as people are people are people and you only succeed with people when you understand them.

Blogging forces one to collect your thoughts to produce coherant prose. Something a couple on Kwiwblog don’t yet understand.
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October 26, 2009 9:13am
Viking2

Luc; forgot to add that but here you go.

http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly203.htm

http://www.nzcpr.com/guest169.htm

FOOTNOTES:
1.Jane Clifton, The Great PC Hunt http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3418/columnists/4985/the_great_pc_hunt.html;jsessionid=E09E01BC5B38A2E3F726B2255EF5BA88
2.Colin Espiner, It’s time for another quango hunt
3.Murray McCully, Tsunami of Cronies http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3418/columnists/4985/the_great_pc_hunt.html;jsessionid=E09E01BC5B38A2E3F726B2255EF5BA88
4.CabGuide, Candidates for Appointments
5.Public Finance Act 1989, Fourth Schedule http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0807/S00480.htm
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October 26, 2009 9:20am
gazzmaniac

Viking2:
In your list of Public Finance Act 1989 Fourth Schedule Organisations you have the NZ fish and game council listed three times. I daresay there are others repeated also.

You are quite right though, it is time to slash some of these agencies.
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October 26, 2009 9:30am
CrazyIvan

Viking,
There are a lot of duplications in there and a number of organisations that, although they are still in the legislation, no longer exist, such as Land Transport NZ, the Residual Health management Unit, Regional health agencies and the 1993 Suffrage Anniversary Trust. Others exist in name only, such as the Government Property Corporation.

Jack P
The example of the PM’s office is not strictly true – The majority of the 400 you refer to work for the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (and not the PM’s office), including the Cabinet Office, everyone on the Governor-General’s staff and security agencies like the EAB.
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October 26, 2009 9:50am
billyborker

Business as usual for Vatican Enterprises, Inc.
‘It is business as usual,” said the Archbishop of Canterbury at the press conference announcing the Vatican’s latest attempt to poach disaffected Anglicans. And how right he was. The Roman Catholic Church is a giant multinational corporation, differing from its business equivalents only in that they pay their taxes.

Like any corporate business, the Vatican’s focus is all on the bottom line: profits rather than prophets; financial rather than spiritual growth. Everything else is just a means to an end. And in order to achieve this end, it deploys all the tactics that have served the corporate world so well: dodgy marketing techniques, products that are not fit for purpose, the refusal (or inability, in the church’s case) to honor guarantees and warranties, advertising based on unproven claims, corrupt trading practices, and obscene rewards for its Chief Executive whilst workers on the shop-floor struggle to make ends meet on poverty wages: these are the daily business of the multinational corporation that is the Roman Catholic Church.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/paula_kirby/2009/10/business_as_usual_for_vatican_enterprises_inc_1.html
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October 26, 2009 9:57am
wreck1080

I see Soros has turned against the bankers in the UK…

“Banks are actually getting hidden subsidies of enormous amounts because of their ability to borrow at effectively zero, and buy 10-year government bonds at 3.5 per cent. So those earnings are not the achievement of risk-takers. These are gifts, hidden gifts, from the Government, so I don’t think those monies should be used to pay bonuses. So there’s a resentment which I think is justified.”

This is disgusting if true. Not only were the banks bailed out by they taxpayer, now they are using bailout money to make huge profits.
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October 26, 2009 10:10am
Viking2

UMMM, its the Govt.’s list not mine.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1989/0044/latest/DLM163544.html
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October 26, 2009 10:25am
Luc Hansen

No argument about that from me Billy. Funny how an organisation supposedly promoting “morals” is so immoral itself!
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October 26, 2009 10:27am
Viking2

Time for some mirth. I had this sent to me. It is the real life experiences of the Travel booking Dept. at the congress. Like most things funny the last line is the punch line. However it also dovetails with the earlier subject of quangos and appointments. enjoy.

1. I had a New Hampshire Congresswoman (Carol Shea-Porter) ask for an aisle seat so that her hair wouldn’t get messed up by being near the window.
(On an airplane!)

2. I got a call from a Kansas Congressman’s (Moore) staffer (Howard Bauleke), who wanted to go to Capetown. I started to explain the length of the flight and the passport information, and then he interrupted me with, ‘ I’m not trying to make you look stupid, but Capetown is in Massachusetts ..’

Without trying to make him look stupid, I calmly explained, ”Cape Cod is in Massachusetts , Capetown is in Africa ” . . . his response — click.

3. A senior Vermont Congressman (Bernie Sanders) called, furious about a Florida package we did. I asked what was wrong with the vacation in Orlando He said he was expecting an ocean-view room. I tried t o explain that’s not possible, since Orlando is in the middle of the state.

He replied, ‘don’t lie to me, I looked on the map and Florida is a very thin state!” (OMG)

4. I got a call from a lawmaker’s wife (Landra Reid) who asked, ”Is it possible to see England from Canada ?”

I said, ”No.”

She said, ”But they look so close on the map.” (OMG, again!)

5. An aide for a cabinet member(Janet Napolitano) once called and asked if he could rent a car in Dallas . I pulled up the reservation and noticed he had only a 1-hour layover in Dallas . When I asked him why he wanted to rent a car, he said, ”I heard Dallas was a big airport, and we will need a car to drive between gates to save time.” (Aghhhh)

6. An Illinois Congresswoman (Jan Schakowsky) called last week. She needed to know how it was possible that her flight from Detroit left at 8:30 a.m., and got to Chicago at 8:33 a.m.

I explained that Michigan was an hour ahead of Illinois , but she couldn’t understand the concept of time zones. Finally, I told her the plane went fast, and she bought that.

7. A New York lawmaker, (Jerrold Nadler) called and asked, ”Do airlines put your physical description on your bag so they know whose luggage belongs to whom?” I said, ‘No, why do you ask?’

He replied, ”Well, when I checked in with the airline, they put a tag on my luggage that said (FAT), and I’m overweight. I think that’s very rude!”

After putting him on hold for a minute, while I looked into it.. (I was dying laughing). I came back and explained the city code for Fresno , Ca. is
(FAT – Fresno Air Terminal), and the airline was just putting a destination tag on his luggage.

8. A Senator John Kerry aide (Lindsay Ross) called to inquire about a trip package to Hawaii . After going over all the cost info, she asked, ”Would it be cheaper to fly to California and then take the train to Hawaii ?”

9. I just got off the phone with a freshman Congressman, Bobby Bright (D) from Ala who asked, ”How do I know which plane to get on?”

I asked him what exactly he meant, to which he replied, ”I was told my flight number is 823, but none of these planes have numbers on them.”

10. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D) called and said, ”I need to fly to Pepsi-Cola , Florida . Do I have to get on one of those little computer planes?”

I asked if she meant fly to Pensacola , FL on a commuter plane.

She said, ”Yeah, whatever, smarty!”

11. Mary Landrieu (D) La. Senator called and had a question about the documents she needed in order to fly to China . After a lengthy discussion about passports, I reminded her that she needed a visa. ‘Oh, no I don’t. I’ve been to China many times and never had to have one of those.”

I double checked and sure enough, her stay required a visa. When I told her this she said, ”Look, I’ve been to China four times and every time they have accepted my American Express!”

12. A New Jersey Congressman (John Adler) called to make reservations, ”I want to go from Chicago to Rhino, New York .”

I was at a loss for words. Finally, I said, ”Are you sure that’s the name of the town?”

‘Yes, what flights do you have?” replied the man.

After some searching, I came back with, ”I’m sorry, sir, I’ve looked up every airport code in the country and can’t find a rhino anywhere.”

”The man retorted, ”Oh, don’t be silly! Everyone knows where it is. Check your map!”

So I scoured a map of the state of New York and finally offered, ”You don’t mean Buffalo , do you?”

The reply? ”Whatever! I knew it was a big animal.”

* * * * * * * * * * Now you know why the Government is in the shape that it’s in!

Could anyone be this DUMB?

YES, THEY WALK AMONG US, ARE IN POLITICS, AND THEY CONTINUE TO BREED!

And we wonder why the USA is stuffed.

http://cabguide.cabinetoffice.govt.nz/procedures/appointments/candidates
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October 26, 2009 10:35am
Luc Hansen

viking2 @ 8.06

“Back in July, John Whitehead, the Secretary of the Treasury, stated that some $40 billion of the government’s $65 billion budget could be better spent. He was essentially calling for massive cuts in government expenditure. Clearly this makes sense in the current economic climate…”

In fact, this is the very opposite of what we need right now.

An analysis of why the major countries of Europe (think France, Germany) sailed through the current crisis so well put it’s public service and welfare, including pensions, ethos as major contributing factors.

Paul Krugman also advocates increasing, not decreasing, public spending. And he argues that “priming” the pump in times like this is not overly-inflationary. Just yesterday, Britain released figures showing its economy is still shrinking, leading to speculation the Bank of England with pump more money into the economy.

One could argue that this “growth at all costs” mentality is eventually doomed, but at the moment its the best we can think of without going back to living in trees.
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October 26, 2009 10:39am
LUCY

I came accross this part of a speech by good Ab Lincoln the again the other day and I thought it ever people needed reminding it is now.

“You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.” Abraham Lincoln
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October 26, 2009 10:58am
Repton

Is everything you post an urban legend, viking2?
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October 26, 2009 11:06am
Jack5

Will Race Relations Commissioner Joris de Bres sit up and notice this one? Yeah right.

Bro-partheid, growing under National-Maori Party-ACT, looks set to move into the business sphere.
Seems race-influenced, if not race-based, contracts are on the way.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/2999209/Maori-aim-for-major-contracts
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October 26, 2009 11:15am
cha

Is everything you post an urban legend, viking2?

He posts the gospel according to Mad Muriel too.
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October 26, 2009 11:25am
gazzmaniac

An analysis of why the major countries of Europe (think France, Germany) sailed through the current crisis so well put it’s public service and welfare, including pensions, ethos as major contributing factors.

The new coalition government of Germany has pledged to cut tax and spending.
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October 26, 2009 11:43am
Luc Hansen

gazza

New governments promise lots and invariably deliver little by comparison. Just look at our current lot. Get hold of the reins of power and “oh sorry, no tax cuts after all.”

LUCY

Abe was using the fallacious logic in presenting extreme either/or choices, as I am sure you well know.

For example, rather than helping the poor by destroying the rich, think of the rich helping the poor by funding easy access to practical skills courses (Community Education?) and taking an active role in microfinancing resultant ventures, thus expanding the economy (good for the rich) and shrinking the underclass.
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October 26, 2009 12:04pm
gazzmaniac

Luc, I don’t disagree with you re governments promising and not delivering. The last election was the first where I voted for a party that became part of the government (ACT) and thus the first time I have been mightily disappointed with results (The first election I voted in was 2002). Maybe I was too naive, believing that politicians had integrity and would actually stay true to their electoral promises.
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October 26, 2009 12:19pm
Luc Hansen

gazza

I have been through quite a few more elections than you, and the only newly elected government which has carried out it’s platform in recent times was Helen Clark’s in her first term.

Now I have caught up on the latest in Germany

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10605446

and the major party has signed a tax and spending cuts plan with its minor partner. Now the US and Britain, amongst others, have specifically avoided going down this track in a potentially devastating recession. But the Conservative Party in Britain is swaggering its way to its presumed victory proclaiming it will enact the deepest spending cuts Britain has ever seen.

Ben Bernanke (Federal Reserve Bank) was a depression scholar and even though the US is a deeply conservative nation, it has gone down the opposite path to that now proposed in Germany and Britain. It will be highly entertaining to watch all this play out.

From your point of view as an ACT voter, you could press Rodney Hide why the minor German party has been so successful in getting its main plank adopted whereas ACT in government hived off into local government.

Rodney may say that Key still had the Maori Party to play with and form a government but, quite frankly, that was never a serious option for National. Hide just lost his mojo and went for a minor prize and baubles.

I bet Roger is spewing!
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October 26, 2009 12:52pm
Viking2

Repton, don’t really care but the point is still valid. We have politicians from the left that are that dumb or worse plainly dishonest. Check out WOBH today.

Cha, I would guess you would be a broken arsed lefty who thinks communism is still the best answer despite it failing years ago.
Go back where you belong at the red wrag.
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October 26, 2009 1:42pm
Viking2

Here’s another lo tof rent seekers moaning because they have to justify their hand in the pocket. Fuck they really are out of control all over the place.

Counsellors reject ACC changes

Monday, 26, Oct, 2009 12:27PM

Counsellors are the latest group to express discontent with changes to the ACC, saying new rules will shut the door on the work they do for sexual abuse victims.

Under the changes, either a psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist will have to diagnose a sexual abuse victim before they are eligible for ACC support.

New Zealand Association of Counsellors spokesman Eric Medcalfe says it means only people who have been trained in an American system at a tertiary level can assess claims, and that leaves out all the counselors who are working with survivors now.

Mr Medcalfe says the Pacific understanding of human psychology is being ignored and the changes favour a particular group of clinicians.
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October 26, 2009 1:49pm
Mr Noisy

Does anybody still use Remove It Permanently (RIP) in Firefox to make comments from certain commentators (…eh?) invisible?
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October 26, 2009 2:41pm
philu

yeah..i do..

eh..?

i block that philu..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 26, 2009 3:14pm
francis

U2 live on YouTube at 4:30 our time http://www.youtube.com/user/U2official#p/u/
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October 26, 2009 4:28pm
Hurf Durf

Keynesian economics work!

Spend spend spend and go for growth growth growth!

Print more money!
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October 26, 2009 4:47pm
jabba

shit francis .. I 4got about it .. thanks
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October 26, 2009 6:09pm
LUCY

Luc said LUCY

“Abe was using the fallacious logic in presenting extreme either/or choices, as I am sure you well know.

For example, rather than helping the poor by destroying the rich, think of the rich helping the poor by funding easy access to practical skills courses (Community Education?) and taking an active role in microfinancing resultant ventures, thus expanding the economy (good for the rich) and shrinking the underclass.”

You just make it up as you go along dont you Luc?
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October 26, 2009 6:17pm
Hurf Durf

Fuck the fascist UAF, here’s who I want to see protest more often.
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October 26, 2009 6:26pm
jabba

again francis .. thanks, been a fan since Red Rocks and I can’t believe I 4got .. a busy weekend.
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October 26, 2009 6:46pm
francis

still on – amazing quality, epic YouTube win. gotta be the last encore song, though. Glad you got in!!
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October 26, 2009 7:13pm
william blake

God bless America.
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October 26, 2009 7:50pm

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