General Debate 20 October 2009

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starboard

sorry..had to do it…
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October 20, 2009 8:01am
MikeNZ

You’re not sorry 🙂
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October 20, 2009 8:03am
Chris2

Chequebook journalsim – TV2 show “20/20” screened an interview a few weeks ago with a 20 year-old woman who expressed remorse at the property damage she caused whilst in a drunken state when she drove a 4WD vehicle (not hers) into a swimming pool. She supposedly appeared on the programme to prevent others from drink driving. But it emerges she has a similar conviction from four years ago.

A wise judge has got wind that “20/20” had paid out money for the story and has deferred sentencing until the matter is clarified. Her lawyer says it was $5-$10,000 but TVNZ say it was $2,000.
http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/arrowtown/78754/judge-questions-tv-payout
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October 20, 2009 8:05am
Auberon

Joanne Black in this week’s Listener – finally some common sense from someone in the Fourth Estate:

For all the years I worked in the parliamentary press gallery, my office was paid for by taxpayers, ultimately to the benefit of the two private news organisations I worked for – NZPA and the Evening Post.
Any day now I, or my employers, must surely be outed in the media’s examination of taxpayer subsidies of accommodation. After all, it doesn’t take much.
The latest breathless revelation is that some MPs own their own electorate office buildings, and the rent is paid by taxpayers. In addition, reportedly at least one political party – Labour – owns properties rented to its MPs for electorate offices.
I can’t quite spot the scandal. Both arrangements seem eminently sensible. It is not my business if the Labour Party chooses to rent property to its MPs, any more than if it rented that property to a family of five, a tax accountant or a dry-cleaner.
Equally, it makes no difference to taxpayers whether MPs rent their offices from themselves, their party, a trust or their mother-in-law. What’s important is that rentals match market valuations, no one is coerced into any arrangements, and taxpayers are getting value for their money.
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October 20, 2009 8:11am
grumpyoldhori

Sad really, those who are up at 5 am waiting for the general comments to appear 🙂
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October 20, 2009 8:13am
pdm

grumpyoldhori – its worse when you are on the other side of the world. I wait from about 4pm for the Herald website to update and for the first blogs for the day to appear.
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October 20, 2009 8:24am
Auberon

It’s our chance to blog-by-proxy old hori; as ever, some bloggers have more to say than others 🙂
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October 20, 2009 8:25am
grumpyoldhori

Auberon you may be a touch close to MPs to have the cynicism of we punters.
Like the English episode it comes down to perception, and the perception among many is that some politicians believe they have the absolute right to make capital gains at taxpayers’ expense.

Any office needed should be bought by parliamentary services so that any capital gains go back to the taxpayer when the house/office is sold.

One would think the warnings out of the UK would be enough to make MPs ensure that any dealings with taxpayers money is and LOOKS whiter than white.
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October 20, 2009 8:26am
Auberon

But, my dear old hori, the taxpayer didn’t actually pay for the purchase of the properties upon which the capital gains are being made. It’s a spurious charge, in the extreme.

An MP could have a portfolio of 100 properties, all purchased from their own pocket – not a dime of taxpayer funding involved – and rent one of them to Parliamentary Services. Is the capital gain on that one property now an issue when, had they chosen to rent their electorate office from another private landlord the very same sum of rent for that property would be paid by taxpayers?

How does your claim that MPs are “making capital gains at taxpayers expense” work if there’s a decade long collapse in property values and the property is worth less when the MP leaves Parliament than when they bought it? Can they make a claim to the taxpayer for the capital gains they assumed they’d get?

Told you, a spurious charge, open and shut.
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October 20, 2009 8:38am
Pete George

Chequebook journalsim

This raises a wider issue – what is paid for what “news” or current event items. No wonder TV looks more and more like it is competing with the Woman’s Weakly.

On the other side of the cheque book, there are plenty of obvious paid for promotions in the 6-7 TV slots, but there are also plenty of “look, I’m on TV” segments as well – do those people pay to appear? Is it appearances for the highest bidder? And how much is it abused? Police and media apparently just got sucked in big time in Colorado with the kid in the balloon story that is now being reported as an orchestrated publicity stunt.

Reality TV has become an oxymoron, for morons.
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October 20, 2009 8:42am
nickb

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10604229

Excellent stuff!
Finally we might see some competition to the enormous bureaucratic nightmare that is ACC.

Pity that a coalition partner had to push the Nats into it though.
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October 20, 2009 8:54am
peterwn

Auberon – The Press Gallery used to get free phones (and tolls?), until Rob Muldoon in one of his vindictive moods put a stop to that. I am surprised he did not charge them rent too.
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October 20, 2009 8:57am
menace

Wouldn’t it be great if new zealand actually used the system where by all government spending including local government would publish all expenses say over 50 dollars on a website.
Surely doing this would increase the efficiency of our tax dollar by 1 percent???
I know that the poli’s don’t like to be transparent at all about what they do with our money but surely if the idea gets well known enough then they will have to eventually start this system.
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October 20, 2009 9:03am
grumpyoldhori

You seem to miss the point, if a MP has a hundred rental properties all rented out through a broker that is not a problem.

But, when a MP is getting guaranteed rent on a property used a a office that we punters believe he bought to make capital gains on, then he has a perception problem.

Easy to check, just put a trailer outside one of the houses/offices owned by a MP with a sign asking, should MPs be entitled to make capital gains from the taxpayer, with a book left for comments.
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October 20, 2009 9:03am
Luc Hansen

More on Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama

This recent Nobel laureate has unleashed more drone attacks in his first 9 mths than the nasty, dumb, warmonger, G W Bush, did in three years.

Over the last 12 mths, according to official figures, in Warziristan, Pakistan, these attacks have killed 16 Al Qaeda and Taleban militants and 1200 civilians – a kill ratio of innocents to bad guys of 75-1.

Two important points are that targeted killings, or extrajudicial murders, are now open and official US policy and the victims are overwhelmingly Pashtun, and their surviving family members, by their centuries old code, must seek revenge. This appears to be a factor behind the recent spate of bombings in Pakistan.

Now New Zealand wants drones.

“It’s coming through a hole in the air…”
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October 20, 2009 9:08am
menace

It saddens me to see that the government is even considering exploring our protected areas to be exploited for minerals.
I always thought that New Zealand was about keeping these pristine world class piece’s of natural land intact. Most bush in nz has been destroyed and we have saved some of the very best parts and protected them, is it really worth running roads into these places just for the sake of a few bucks that are not needed. Are our living standards not already quite ok in what is commonly perceived by the international community as one of earths last true paradise’s.???
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October 20, 2009 9:10am
menace

Luc Hansen: I have always seen it the way you have put it.
The example i have always used is: emagine your in a bar and there is a big mean mongrel mob fella there, you go up to him and tell he smells, his tatoo’s look immature, he should grow up and that yes you think he is an arse hole and a piece of shit. You gonna get a hiding right? But you get more than just a hiding, he kicks the shit out of ya, you nearly get paralized, never walk properly again and only see out of one eye. The lesson of course being that, you may not of deserved such a thrashing but at the same time you did know who you were abusing and were aware of the way he would react.

Ultimately: action = reaction: and we can only control the action.
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October 20, 2009 9:20am
malcolm

Helen’s copping a bit of flak:

“The former prime minister Helen Clark’s behind-closed-doors approach to her new United Nations job has unsettled some UN watchers.” (National Radio).

http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20091020-0739-Media_agency_complains_about_hush-hush_Helen_Clark-048.mp3
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October 20, 2009 9:22am
MikeNZ

I don’t often green karma you LUC but you are spot on in the first part of your post.

Perhaps it’s because body bags coming home in C130’s is a political negative for OB1,
whereas graves by the road side in AFPak aren’t?

Are Pashtun really AlQ or just whichever side they happen to be on at the time?
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October 20, 2009 9:24am
MikeNZ

Malcolm
Thanks for this, where did you get it from?

He’s got one thing wrong, its not OK for UN officials to play up to their home countries, they are supposed to do the best job they can for everyone.
Someone should brief this guy an the LiarLabour history and nepotism, maybe then he’ll understand the no-shows from Helen’s office.
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October 20, 2009 9:32am
grumpyoldhori

Luc Hansen wish you buggers would make your minds up, one moment you are saying that Obama is a socialistic surrender monkey, next you are suggesting he sits in the White house selecting the targets for drones.

Oh, and Obama cannot accept the Nobel because it is a title where the people are selected by another state, no serving officer in the US military or civilian ranks can accept a title while in office.

Amusing how septics accept knighthoods when Canadians cannot.
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October 20, 2009 9:34am
malcolm

Mike, I was thinking that when I heard the bit on National Radio.

I’ll see if I can find the chap and his article..
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October 20, 2009 9:38am
malcolm

Here it is:

http://www.innercitypress.com/undp1hclark072709.html

Jesus, what a hideous website. I listened to the clip again, I think Matthew Lee made a bit of a fool of himself when he said that the Philippines etc suffered the same storm as Tonga and Samoa. Clearly confusing a storm with a tsunamis.
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October 20, 2009 9:46am
MikeNZ

David
Your poll on voting systems doesn’t have the swiss model, Why not it works doesn’t it?
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October 20, 2009 10:05am
menace

The pole, for all the talk about MMP being rubbish etc , and i here a lot of people rubbishin it, its interesting to see the support of it
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October 20, 2009 10:31am
Patrick Starr

“The pole, for all the talk about MMP being rubbish etc”

far more likely the resident Green Party trolls have been very busy ‘voting’
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October 20, 2009 1:34pm
Luc Hansen

menace: you’re analogy is not quite accurate. Instead of me walking up to the big bad monster, it was my neighbour who did that and after he was dealt to, I am picked on just because I’m there. That’s a bit closer.

MikeNZ: wow, thanks and to all the other green voters! I’m…overwhelmed…

shit, now I’m talking like Phil! eh?

Taleban are Pashtun first and Afghan nationalists second, unlike Al Qaeda which is an international terrorist organisation. It was partly the devotion to their code of honour which led them to not hand over Bin Laden after 9/11 (as much of a surprise to them as us all, according to reporters like Fisk)

Then they just did what nationalists do and settled in to drive out the invaders. It’s spilled over to Pakistan as the govt there, cash hungry and under threat from the US, has reversed it’s previous support for Taleban and gone after it. Al Qaeda can flee or just go back home, the Taleban are home and aren’t going anywhere.

The Durand Line, the border Britain imposed, runs through Pashtun territory, another complication. It’s now a pointless war in support of a corrupt and unpopular regime. Nato and the US are in a hole and should stop digging, pronto.

hori: What happens, happens. And there’s plenty socialist-types who have gotten their rocks off over killing – Hitler? Stalin? Blair? 😉 And two other presidents have been awarded and accepted Nobels while in office.
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October 20, 2009 2:23pm
Hurf Durf

these attacks have killed 16 Al Qaeda and Taleban militants and 1200 civilians – a kill ratio of innocents to bad guys of 75-1.

More like one high-ranking Talib gets surgically picked out then Talib fighters go and slaughter 75 civilians in revenge. Typical MO for these animals.
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October 20, 2009 2:49pm
philu

latest poll in america has 57% supporting ‘the public option’..

and only 20% identifying as republicans..

(this is the lowest ranking for republicans in 26 years..)

49% trust obama to lead the country..

19% trust the republicans to lead the country…

and in britain..that huge lead held by the tories..

has shrunk to 10%..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 20, 2009 5:14pm
Hurf Durf

Socialism on the rise, eh, phool? Labour gonna win the 2008 election and coalition with NZF, eh, phool?

You’re still not getting your public option. And ACC is still bust. And Otwat is still a cretin. And the Tories will still win.

..eh?..

phool(allwrongallthetime.co.nz)
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October 20, 2009 5:25pm
Viking2

Got to wait till home time to blog cause the master is still asleep at the hour of sunrise. Best part of the day. When can we have GD at 6 am.?

Now reported comment from Turiama about ACC Apparently Maori don’t have sufficient acces to ACC. errrr what???

Maori Party leader Tariana Turia said her MPs still had many concerns about the proposed changes, but believed the issues should be debated.

Mrs Turia said Maori had received less access to ACC and her party wanted to see how this bias could be addressed.
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October 20, 2009 5:49pm
Luc Hansen

Good ol’ Hurf

Not one to let facts interfere with a good prejudice.
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October 20, 2009 7:36pm
Hurf Durf

There’s nothing in my post that ain’t factual, Luc. Just call me Mr Hurf “Factual” Durf.
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October 20, 2009 7:40pm
Luc Hansen

Date and time were OK
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October 20, 2009 8:06pm
Murray M

“Mrs Turia said Maori had received less access to ACC and her party wanted to see how this bias could be addressed.”

Somebody should tell her that ACC is funded by the workers for the workers (with the exception of all the other crap labour added). WINZ take care of the buggars that don’t work. And I know there are Maori who do work, but there are an awful lot who don’t.

They accuse us of being racist, it’s drivel like this that makes us racist. Bias in ACC FFS, if there is any bias in that system, it is to the truly deserving cases.
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October 20, 2009 9:55pm
menace

Luc Hansen
Well, actually what i see is that in new zealands case, we watched our neighbour get what he so stupidly asked for and now we are jumping in
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October 20, 2009 11:21pm
Viking2

Asleep still. Wednesday morning, the worlds awake but the computer at General Debate is snoozing. Oh well we will just have to go to work and wait for the sleepyheads.
I see Mr Smiley says running the crap house called Govt. ain’t so easy what with having to debate with the Maori Party and his own Socialist party members and his own Greenies. What a surprise.
Lots to to post but the alarm hasn’t gone yet in Wellington.
So the suns up, not cloud to be seen, days looking good, only two blots on the landscape, work and no General Debate for us early risers.
Have a nice day.
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October 21, 2009 6:53am
NoCash

Testing

Just a test…
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October 22, 2009 1:22pm

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