General Debate 14 October 2009

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Kevin James

The latest polls are wrong…Labour isn’t as popular as 28%. More like 10%
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October 14, 2009 7:46am
jackp

Wouldn’t suprise me. National is looking more like labour everyday.
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October 14, 2009 7:54am
dimmocrazy

Yesterday DPF blogged about the Maxim report about family interventions. Essentially it suggests focusing on evidence-based programmes to intervene in families and provide support to them.

I disagree with that and commented: “Another example of the backward socialist approach to all and any problems. What’s wrong with families is that their autonomous nature has been severely broken down, while the traditional relationships between procreation and family and the associated set of moral values and responsibilities have been destroyed. The solution is to restore the context and concept of family, not to develop ever more ‘interventions’ whereby a whole raft of social science Willies start creating jobs for their mates while ever further placing the State right at the kitchen table and into the bedroom.”

This is a topic that interests me and I was wondering what the Kiwiblog readers’ opinion is about family-related difficulties and how these should be dealt with.
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October 14, 2009 7:59am
Robert Black

I want to post this relevant to the issue of Bravo the Greens. I hope I will be forgiven but I am 5 hours behind here in China so I always post at the end of threads. Having lived here for eight years this is something I feel quite strongly about in at least trying to give another view about Xinjiang activists:

“If the Chinese here learn that it is okay to protest peacefully, then they would have learned a valuable lesson about living in a democracy,” Ms Kadeer said.

Oh and they protest “peacefully”? Joke.

I don’t know what kind of controlled media you have in little ol NZ now (being facetious I do) but the last media clip I saw of these Muslim extremists was them entering a mosque, having a meeting then when the majority of the men disagreed that they should charge down the road with them with home-made machetes killing everyone in sight, men women and children they turned on them then charged down the road and the got the shit shot out of them quite rightly by the Chinese police.

Their latest trick after that was to stick innocent people mostly old people and children of the terrible “Han” with syringes randomly.

It is funny how you mention the Maoris because if you have actually lived in China for any length of time you will know that the Chinese bend over backwards for these extremist idiots but history and old land rights “issues” never go away.

They want a united China as perhaps people in New Zealand want a united one New Zealand. And to forget about the past.

Sound familiar?

Please, read or watch some objective media if you can on China.

And as far as no right to protest, you think China will hold together just like Russia didn’t if they allow such stuff? Chinese play follow the leader, that is the way they have been trained to think.

A bit scary with 1.4 Billiion people don’t you think?

No Chinese economy then oh shit how about New Zealand’s little pathetic economy?

And the Chinese do protest peacefully in democracies, they act totally different than they do here.

Remember the Olympic protests? Were they particularly violent by the Han?

That Kadeer has falsified photos and much much more for their cause.

Please DPF no offence, I totally respect you but please try and see the big picture with this issue.
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October 14, 2009 7:59am
Razork

When will the truth come out about the real cost of the MTV rugby bid?
It wasn’t $3M; it was $5M.
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October 14, 2009 8:00am
scanner

If a conservative doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a liberal doesn’t like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
If a liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.

If a conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Liberals demand that those they don’t like be shut down.

If a conservative slips and falls in a store, he gets up, laughs and is embarrassed.
If a liberal slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans like he’s in labour and then sues.__
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October 14, 2009 8:01am
grumpyoldhori

Yep, the Nats should act like a true right wing party, sell off all the hospitals to overseas interests, cut super payments by half, move to a yank type medical scheme, dump free university study.

That would keep true right wingers happy, bit of a pity the punters get a vote is it not ? 🙂
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October 14, 2009 8:02am
grumpyoldhori

Robert Black you a kiwi or a foreigner ? the plural of Maori is Maori.
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October 14, 2009 8:10am
dad4justice

Isn’t it rather sad that the taxpayer has to witnesses Maori and Government greedy fools squabbling over the TV rights to view a rugger world cup? Talk about getting your priorities wrong. Parasites are the winner on the day meanwhile the taxpayer gets to join the dole queue. How about addressing appalling child abuse statistics, before spending a cent on an event that will end in more heartbreak for kiwi sport fans. You need to take out a mortgage to be able to buy a seat at the final but no doubt John Boy Wee will be attending. No wonder this country is world leaders in infanticide and child abuse. Will the Maori Party go walkabout in Australia to highlight the issue or will they open their eyes to the widespread tragic issue that surrounds them? Both Maori and Government are a disgrace to decency and children!
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October 14, 2009 8:16am
Patrick Starr

The other sad fact is both these state owned broadcasters are now having a bidding war with the same taxpayer money!
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October 14, 2009 8:37am
Tassman

I am in total support of dimmocracy on the Family

And my take on USNZ warmer relations is not a trade deal but a homosexual one. Mr. Obama is emerging the gender agenda man along with Hilary Clinton to continue down the socialist spiral… They shouldn’t find many oppositions in our government!
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October 14, 2009 8:38am
NeillR

I have to say i’m completely pissed off with the Government’s handling of the MTV World Cup rights. On one hand they say they want Maori to become more aspirational and to get off welfare, but as soon as they show any initiative they are pogromed back into “their place”.

To say that the bid should be given to TVNZ because of “coverage issues” is a crock, because until the blue rinsers started wanking on about how they “didn’t want to listen to Maori in their broadcast” no-one gave a toss. TVNZ hadn’t even bid on the coverage because they had run out of money and TV3 only showed scant interest.

Not to mention the fact that we are trying to shift from analogue to digtal broadcasting – a move that would have been assisted by MTV gaining the rights. TVNZ has become an irrelevant public service dinosaur and the loss of rights would have made it easier to flick them off to a private consortium and promote MTV as the new “public service” TV model. A quick rearrangement of the charter, add some ‘whitey’s’ and change the name and bingo, bob’s your mother’s brother’s lover.

On top of it all, National has now thrown MORE taxpayers money at it, which will only benefit the IRB as they try to appease the voting bloc that would otherwise have been at the latest Winston “comeback” rally. They’ve “dropped the ball” on this one no matter which way you look at it and i’m not impressed.
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October 14, 2009 9:02am
LUCY

scanner (92) 16 3

BRILLIANT!
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October 14, 2009 9:04am
getstaffed

Robert Black [, are] you a Kiwi or a foreigner ? The plural of Maori is Maori.

English is such a fussy language isn’t it?!?
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October 14, 2009 9:14am
jcuknz

Is this spam or a confidence trick … talk about the Nigerians geezz!
“Kia ora John,
Thank you so much for paying an AP to the Green Party. APs are really so important for us to continue to run strong campaigns and make a difference in Parliament.
Your credit card expired on 30 September 2009 so your AP has stopped. If you would like to to continue your AP please email me your new expiry date, you do not need to provide any other credit card information unless you have changed your card altogether.
If you choose not to continue your AP your membership will run out a year from now. Please let me know if this is the case so that I don’t need to ask you again.
Many thanksNatalie”
My credit card didn’t expire at that date. Nor have I been making APs to ANY party.
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October 14, 2009 9:21am
muppet

Anne Tolley strikes a “deal” on league tables for schools. She described plans to make it very difficult for anyone to make comparisons between schools…

From the stuff article:

She said she told the groups she was prepared to work with them to stop the use of league tables. “We want to make it as difficult for you [media] as possible. It will be too hard and too much work and not worth it in the end. There are a few ideas we will discuss as to how we can do that.”

I think this is a clever move by Anne. I am sure it won’t be too hard for some people. Too hard? Probably not for some clever folk. Not worth it? I think parents would disagree.

Anne has laid down a challenge for some clever stats people. “Too hard, too much work, not worth it? It’s a bit like telling a techie they can’t crack a code. Oh yeah? Wanna bet?
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October 14, 2009 9:27am
jcuknz

>>>If a conservative slips and falls in a store, he gets up, laughs and is embarrassed.
If a liberal slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans like he’s in labour and then sues.__<<<

That's not right, the liberal goes to ACC .. it is the consrvative capitalist that tries to make money out of it.
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October 14, 2009 9:27am
MikeNZ

I agree with most of you.
we have enough things that need to be done here in NZ without wasting money on TV rights.

just rereading Nigel latta’s Into the darklands and beyond, P’s 196 – 205
If you don’t own this you need to more than any policy wonk book.

yeah puff over substance, buy tv rights to make maori feel good and hold te reo up there to the world.
yeah right John

Lets get real with our money mate.
you cancel 40m for ACE funding which for the amoput pays back to the community a monster amout in social good and the argue over tv rights meanwhile maori and killing their kids every month and every night they are getting shafted.

for gods sake they are our kids too.
lets stop the pretending that you actually want to do soemthing about it ehh pita and john.
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October 14, 2009 9:29am
cha

Why I Give My 9-year-old Pot
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October 14, 2009 9:37am
Ryan Sproull

If a conservative wants to be funny, he makes inaccurate generalisations.
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October 14, 2009 9:44am
KiwiGreg

Its funny because it’s true…

http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/if_god_had_wanted_me_to_be
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October 14, 2009 9:45am
Elijah Lineberry

The opinion polls are wrong; the correct situation is this –

Socialist parties: 99.95% (alas)

Libertarianz: 0.05% (alas)

Winner of the last General Election: Helen Clark (whomever you voted for, apart from the Libertarianz, they simply implement her policies)

Winner of the 2011 General Election: Helen Clark (whomever you vote for, apart from the Libertarianz, will simply continue to implement her policies)

Correct Description of John Key: Helen’s man in New Zealand (she is a bit busy at the moment to actually be the PM)

Percentage of stupid, ignorant people unable to accept an obvious reality staring them in the face: 99% 😉

http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
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October 14, 2009 9:50am
Ryan Sproull

Kris K, if you’re there, check this out: http://foodgawker.com/
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October 14, 2009 9:52am
philu

gee..elijah..maybe you are a ‘prophet’..?

either that..

or are you just a ‘reactionary’-feudalist’..?

(i reckon yr more the latter..

eh..?)

and i really don’t see the ‘peasants’ voting for yr ‘restoration’..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2009 10:13am
Elijah Lineberry

I am more of a ‘profit’, Phil 😉

…and a key aspect of feudalism is that chaps like me do not bother asking peasants if they are happy about it! hahahahahaha!!!

http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
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October 14, 2009 10:18am
tom hunter

I really don’t know why people bother with Jon Stewart, even though he is finally crawling out of Obamania, it’s really more a question of how far his studio audience will let him run.

Meantime there exists an outfit that has done savage satire on all groups right from the start – The Onion – and they’ve moved to video so you can podcast Onion News Network.

Here’s their latest on Obama
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October 14, 2009 10:40am
llew

Percentage of stupid, ignorant people unable to accept an obvious reality staring them in the face: 99%

Who cares about the stupid ignorant people, what percentage of clever, informed people are though?

Or what percentage of the total population?
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October 14, 2009 10:40am
philu

the onion is mainly unfunny crap..tom..

(calling it sophmoric-humour is too high a praise..)

people ‘bother’ with stewart .. because he is a funny bastard..

and he is particularly skilled at highlighting the delusions/practises..

of ‘people’ such as yourself..(think rightwing-loonies..!)

which of course..would explain your dislike of him..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2009 10:44am
philu

and lineberry..

‘chaps’ like you must be ‘dashed-annoyed’ at how uppity the peasants are these days..eh..?

btw..have you always spoken/written like a minor character in a p.g.wodehouse novel..?

or is this a recent affectation..

wot..?

i mean..he was a good writer..

but..y’know..!

it’s a bit much..!..old chap..!

(and i am sure spooner ..and the other chaps at the club..would agree with me..

….if you asked him/them..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2009 10:49am
Ruth

Elijah – all Libz seem to do is run around chanting “John Key sucks”.

That didn’t win you votes last election and it wont in 2011 either.
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October 14, 2009 11:07am
Jack5

Change of topic for a minute …

Quite a few aircraft and military buffs read Kiwiblog, and in case any missed it, here is a link to an obituary (British Daily Telegraph) of the German fighter pilot who might well be the Red Baron of World War 2 — 275 victories.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/military-obituaries/air-force-obituaries/6299837/Generalleutnant-Gnther-Rall.html
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October 14, 2009 11:08am
RightNow

phlu, are the Americans still going to buy your site? Technorati places you at 600,161 today. I think that’s a .004% improvement on last week, you should put the price up!
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October 14, 2009 11:11am
Jack5

I’ve just re-read the Gunther Rall obituary in the Telegraph, and the reader posts below include the amusing assertion that Hitler was a British secret agent!
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October 14, 2009 11:12am
philu

here are some lies key is telling about his p-plans..

the only way you will get psuedoephedrine..

is from a hospital pharmacy..

and then only if you have a woody…

that won’t go down/de-tumesce..

(thereby confirming the dick-shrivelling side-effect from consuming garbage-speed..

why do they do it..?..(i hear you say..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/brian-rudman-anti-p-law-doesnt-stand-up-to-scrutinythe-only-way-to-obtain-pseudoephedrine-legally-once-the-law-is-changed-is-if-you-turn-up-at-a-hospital-emergency-room-with-an-erection-that-wont-subs/

“..For Beehive-watchers searching for signs the blokes are truly back in town..

.. look no further than the exceptions to the near total ban on pseudoephedrine-based medications the Prime Minister plans to introduce in his war on P.

Despite Mr Key’s soothing assurance that it will become a “prescription-only medication”, implying that cold sufferers will be able to get a prescription from their GP then drag themselves off to the local chemist..

.. that won’t be true.

The only way to obtain pseudoephedrine legally once the law is changed ..

..is if you turn up at a hospital emergency room with an erection that won’t subside.

I jest not.

It seems Mr Key’s trusty new chief scientific adviser, Professor Peter Gluckman, has discovered that this truly versatile drug not only miraculously clears congested Nasal passages and, when used to excess, drives people crazy..

.. it also has a certain talent for relaxing engorged penile blood vessels.

Mr Key didn’t go into this sort of detail when he declared war last Friday.

Maybe he feared he’d blush.

Indeed his reference to making it “a prescription-only medication” lulled me into thinking I’d still be able to obtain my pseudoephedrine-laced Nasal decongestant ..

.. even if at greater cost and inconvenience than at present.

But the small print of Professor Gluckman’s recommendations says otherwise.

The drug will be reclassified as a Class B2 controlled drug under the Misuse of Drugs Act..

.. “restricting supplies to hospital pharmacies only”.

Mr Key didn’t elaborate either when he said there would be exceptions because..

.. “there’s still a small group of of people who may in some circumstances benefit from using PSE [pseudoephedrine]-based products instead.”

Once again, the implication was he was referring to cold sufferers.

But not so.

The only people he and Professor Gluckman want to give a helping hand to ..

.. are idiots who have over-dosed themselves on Viagra..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2009 11:21am
Luc Hansen

Robert Black

How interesting that you term the Uigher rebels as Muslims – which those individuals may well be – but before they were Muslim they were the indigenous people to what is often still called East Turkmenistan. The Han Chinese are both occupiers and oppressors of East Turkmenistan, according to the UN.

Has there ever been a referendum of Uighers to see if they want to belong to China?

Robert, in my reading, your post demonises a whole people for the actions of a few. Six of that few have been or are about to be executed (justice David Garrity style, swift and certain) and many more imprisoned. This is an entirely appropriate response within China’s justice system. Sterotyping the whole ethnic group and supporting colonisation, occupation and oppression by China is not.

Below is the link to Kadeers’ association and includes a link to a UN report on the situation in East Turkmenistan.

http://www.uyghuramerican.org//articles/3801/1/Uyghurs-as-indigenous-people-a-new-UHRP-report-highlights-Chinese-government-violations-of-Uyghurs-indigenous-rights/index.html
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October 14, 2009 11:37am
Luc Hansen

Derek fox on RNZ this morning summed up the whole MTS/TVNZ/RWC debacle succinctly and accurately in just one word: prejudice.

“Those damn natives are getting uppity again!”

“Break out the muskets!”
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October 14, 2009 11:40am
stephen

Obviously foodporn.com was taken when foodgawker started up…
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October 14, 2009 11:42am
Owen McShane

My friend and colleague Joel Kotkin has written a thoughtful essay on his new geography website:

http://www.newgeography.com/content/001089-our-euro-president

As I read it I found myself wondering where New Zealand falls in this Euro-American dichotomy of demographics and creed.

Half and half?
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October 14, 2009 12:48pm
BlackMoss

Re: Scanner, in the spirit of wild generalisation.

If a conservative doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a liberal doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t think that much about them, except in relation to odd mass murder events, because he doesn’t live in America.

If a conservative is homosexual, he lives a life of quiet repression.
If a liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation by using his privileged background.
A liberal wonders why and how the world has turned out to be so inequitable.

If a conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Liberals despair at the mindless trash which keeps the ignorant immobile.

If a conservative slips and falls in a store, he gets up, laughs and is embarrassed and buys a new suit the next day.
If a liberal slips and falls, he does a variety of things depending on his individual disposition.__
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October 14, 2009 1:15pm
Pete George

Interesting essay Owen. I think NZ is just different to both – not as war weary as Europe and obviously not an exhausted empire, and nowhere near as conservative or religious as the US and at a totally different part of the power chain. But there are some things in common to both as well, so I’d put us as 1/3 Eurocentric, 1/3 ex colony, and 1/3 picking our own identity.

Kris, it’s worth a read for the spiritual comments.
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October 14, 2009 2:13pm
philu

shall we have a new name for national/this national govt..?

‘the gang that couldn’t shoot straight’..?

world-cup rights..?..anyone..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2009 4:31pm
philu

and it’s a big-news-day for literal believers of the bible..

apparantly the translation from hebrew into english..

..is a mis-translation..

and that there never was the claim in the hebrew bible that ‘god created the world’..

the hebrew words do not say that..

they only say ‘god’ ..’improved/renovated’..

a world that was already here..

whoar..!

eh..?

(holy self-delusional-belief..!..batman..!..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2009 5:05pm
philu

tvnz7 has a wild-eyed key spouting urban-myth horror-stories..

about ”p-crazed drug addicts…turning up on law-abiding citizens door-steps’..

‘then they’d wish ther weren’t on ‘p’..'(sic)

(‘holy reincarnated j.edgar hoover..!..batman..!)

reality check:..one third of ‘p’ comes from chemist pills..

d’yareckon the imported precursor-trade will take up that slack..?

so..w.t.f. is key banging on about..?

this will solve the ‘drug-problem’ .. not one iota..

and is far from what key is claiming..

that it will stop that ‘p-addict on doorstep’ syndrome..

(that is so wide-spread..eh..?..why..!..just the other night..!)

and what do they say..?..

these door-stopping ‘p’-addicts .. ?

..in keys’ little urban-horror-myth/chimera..?

“got any codral..?..man..?”)

i mean..

f.f.s..!..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2009 5:16pm
grumpyoldhori

Elijah Lineberry I have the ideal lifestyle in NZ for you, you will pay no tax at all, wonderful is it not ?
A catch, nope no catch, but you use nothing that has paid for in any way by the tax payer, no roads, no public hospitals, no power( the poles run along OUR roads, comes under ownership rights) roll a vehicle on your property don’t ring our fire brigades, no land line phone or cellphone, no trading with any organisation that gets taxpayer money by pigeon post.

Libertarian types believe they owe society nothing, so the best way to deal with it is to send Libertarians to Coventry.
Remember, this is what YOU want is it not ?
You could try the Free State idea on,give my best to the rellies in the hard mob(girly Maori) when they turn up.
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October 14, 2009 5:23pm
Kris K

Pete George 2:13 pm,

Interesting essay Owen. I think NZ is just different to both – not as war weary as Europe and obviously not an exhausted empire, and nowhere near as conservative or religious as the US and at a totally different part of the power chain. But there are some things in common to both as well, so I’d put us as 1/3 Eurocentric, 1/3 ex colony, and 1/3 picking our own identity.

Kris, it’s worth a read for the spiritual comments.

After reading it, I would probobly agree with Owen regarding his “half and half” comment.

From the essay:

There are other critical differences. Americans remain more religiously minded. One analyst, David Hart, has spoken of Europe’s “metaphysical boredom.” Half or more of Europeans never attend church, compared with barely 20% in the U.S.

But regarding regular religious attendees; I would estimate being about the 10% level in NZ, but of those that have an actual relationship with Christ I would only estimate about 1-2% of the NZ population. IMHO.
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October 14, 2009 6:38pm
Luc Hansen

For the (at least) four of you who wish to remain ignorant of yet another colonial occupation in East Turkestan, here is an extract form the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People and the Uyghurs of East Turkestan. Below is a link to the full report. While we should not support terrorism and attacks on civilians, resistance to occupation is legal and we should look at the wider issue involved here.

Uyghurs: The Indigenous People of East Turkestan

Uyghurs are members of a Turkic ethnic group who live primarily in East Turkestan, a
region located in the northwest part of the territory encompassed by the PRC. There are
also significant numbers of Uyghurs in Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan,
Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Russia, as well as other countries.

Uyghurs have a culture, religion, language, and belief system that are distinct from the
dominant ethnic group in China, the Han Chinese, who make up over 90 percent of the
country’s population. The more than ten million Uyghur people who live in East
Turkestan are the descendants of the nomadic herders and oasis-based people who have
lived in the region for thousands of years. Before the 20th century, there was no sizeable
Han Chinese population in East Turkestan.

http://uyghuramerican.org/docs/UNDRIP10-2-09.pdf
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October 14, 2009 6:38pm
Kris K

Ryan Sproull 9:52 am,

Kris K, if you’re there, check this out: http://foodgawker.com/

Cheers Ryan, have updated my library.
Looks like some good food to get inspired about.
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October 14, 2009 6:41pm
Luc Hansen

Kris K

I would pontificate, sorry, estimate the number of New Zealanders with an actual personal relationship with Jesus Christ at exactly zero.

Your 1-2% have an IMAGINED personal relationship with Christ.

Sorry to burst your bubble.
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October 14, 2009 6:44pm
Kris K

Luc Hansen 6:38 pm,

For the (at least) four of you who wish to remain ignorant …

If your views are the blindingly bright example of ‘illumination’, then I’ll happily stick with my ‘ignorant’ views thanks there Luc me boy.
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October 14, 2009 6:50pm
dad4justice

Talking about the bursting bubble Luc , is your dad called fugley and your mum called sonic by any chance?
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October 14, 2009 6:52pm
Kris K

Luc Hansen 6:44 pm,

Kris K
I would pontificate, sorry, estimate the number of New Zealanders with an actual personal relationship with Jesus Christ at exactly zero.
Your 1-2% have an IMAGINED personal relationship with Christ.
Sorry to burst your bubble.

And after having spent his life on earth rejecting Christ and His offer of salvation, Luc notches up yet another millennium during which he continues to chant, “The flames are not real, and the darkness is not beyond comprehension”. Along with the countless millions which have also rejected Christ’s offer, and have chosen the ‘wide’ gate instead.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
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October 14, 2009 7:04pm
Luc Hansen

Kris K

They do say ignorance is bliss. I would say you are extremely blissful 🙂
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October 14, 2009 7:04pm
Hurf Durf

Christ, phool, you’re as bad as Sproull and BlackMoss. Put a sock or a bong in it, whatever you prefer.
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October 14, 2009 7:07pm
Steve

Phool,
Get over to the Red Rag. The Duck needs you.
He has PMS and is deleting everything that makes sense and only allowing comments from the stupid.
Spud has been suckholing to him all day.
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October 14, 2009 7:23pm
Luc Hansen

Regarding the New Geographic article Owen posted, what gets me is this.

Europe has a birth rate below what is needed to sustain its population. Therefore, it needs immigration to ensure its gold-plated retirement schemes can continue into the future SO LONG AS those immigrants contribute to future economic growth.

And what do they do with these immigrants? Overwhelmingly, with exceptions, admittedly, ghettoise them. Why not spend billions on education and training, as intensive as is needed, money diverted from pointless wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and maybe Iran soon.

And when the troops come home and leave those countries to develop themselves, those countries will become export markets because our stats show immigrants are especially good at exporting to their home countries.
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October 14, 2009 7:25pm
nickb

“tvnz7 has a wild-eyed key spouting urban-myth horror-stories..

about ”p-crazed drug addicts…turning up on law-abiding citizens chemist shops”

Fixed.
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October 14, 2009 7:38pm
nickb

http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/show-me-money/2009/10/14/talk-hand/?c_id=3

Oh dear, it is a bad day for the Nats when even Bernard Hickey turns on them..
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October 14, 2009 8:10pm
nickb

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2961362/SPCA-sickened-and-disturbed-by-nail-attack-on-cat

Isn’t this disgusting?
I hope whoever did this gets serious jail time..
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October 14, 2009 8:13pm
Nefarious

someone had a hell of a night nailing some pussy.
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October 14, 2009 10:05pm
Hurf Durf

Suddenly it all makes sense.
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October 14, 2009 10:14pm

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