General Debate 29 September 2009

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starboard

A duck was standing on the side of the road waiting to cross when a chicken walked by and said to him..” dont do it mate…you’ll never hear the end of it ” …
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September 29, 2009 8:38am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/paul-krugmanevery-once-in-a-while-i-feel-despair-over-the-fate-of-the-planet/

“..If you’ve been following climate science, you know what I mean: ..

.. the sense that we’re hurtling toward catastrophe .. but nobody wants to hear about it .. or do anything to avert it.

And here’s the thing: I’m not engaging in hyperbole.

These days, dire warnings aren’t the delusional raving of cranks.

They’re what come out of the most widely respected climate models, devised by the leading researchers.

The prognosis for the planet has gotten much, much worse .. in just the last few years.

What’s driving this new pessimism?

Partly it’s the fact that some predicted changes, like a decline in Arctic Sea ice, are happening much faster than expected.

Partly it’s growing evidence that feedback loops amplifying the effects of man-made greenhouse gas emissions are stronger than previously realized.

For example, it has long been understood that global warming will cause the tundra to thaw, releasing carbon dioxide..

.. which will cause even more warming..

.. but new research shows far more carbon locked in the permafrost than previously thought..

.. which means a much bigger feedback effect.

The result of all this is that climate scientists have, en masse, become Cassandras —

– gifted with the ability to prophesy future disasters ..

.. but cursed with the inability to get anyone to believe them.

And we’re not just talking about disasters in the distant future, either.

The really big rise in global temperature probably won’t take place until the second half of this century ..

.. but there will be plenty of damage long before then..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 29, 2009 8:57am
village idiot

Good grief! Bill English’s problems didn’t go away over night! We all had our fingers crossed, didn’t we? And our eyes squeezed tight, wishing?
I guess it’s because he’s Minister of Finance and Deputy Prime Minister of New Zealand.
That’ll be why this silly story just won’t dissapear!
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September 29, 2009 8:57am
Simon

Make NZ a better place. Pay cash for all purchases espically under $100 to $200.
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September 29, 2009 9:18am
peterwn

Village Idiot – This is just phase one of a Machiavellian plan. It is just the beginning. Phase two will involve Jim Anderton’s pseudo leadership money and the Green Party’s taxpayer funded ‘superannuation’ houses.
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September 29, 2009 9:29am
Whafe

I had the tv on this morning in the motel, as you do when away for work…

Benard Hicky is suck a drama queen. He has some very valid points re the Crafer Families farms for neglect of calves, of which I find shocking to say the least and I dont agree at all with what has happened to these animals.

But hearinig B Hicky talking about how they had their throats cut was farsical….. It is times like that, thay I dislike the media more than I normally do….

Working in Ohakune today, nothing like sitting in the office with the backdrop being My Ruapahu…
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September 29, 2009 9:34am
pentwig

phoolu states..They’re what come out of the most widely respected climate models, devised by the leading researchers.

But phool, respected by who? Those who want to believe in it ,pushed by Goldman Sachs et al.

There is an equal amount of leading researchers whose climate models poo hoo the idea and have no moneytary gain to say so. I prefer to believe these researchers.

So you should push this tripe on frogblog where you belong. But I guess they haven’t answered your questions yet.

Sad really.
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September 29, 2009 9:40am
jcuknz

Your razor blade poll is missing an option … I gave up using a blade years ago when I started a beard … and now use an electric trimmer.

I fear that you are right PHILU … and I fear for my grandaughter who hopefully will [have to] live through it. Will we for instance build dykes to protect the ‘slum’ areas of South Dunedin, though rapidly being rebuilt with pensioner and other new homes … and I note that spring high tides are close to the tourist road down Otago Peninsula that the Council is spending on widening. There is a guy down here concerned at the loss of habitat from seabed reclaimed by that work … when the sea is going to reclaim much more further down the harbour at Harwood for instance. I have a freind down there who doesn’t [want to] believe in Global Warming and rising sea levels in his lifetime.
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September 29, 2009 9:46am
jcuknz

PENTWIG …. as a yachtie I am aware of the weather and it is becoming more extreme which leads me to give some credit to GW warnings. But there are ostriches putting their heads in the sand of both the animal and human kind in recent times.
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September 29, 2009 9:50am
Elijah Lineberry

That bastion of reason, logic, objectivity and intelligence – the Dominion Post has a headline reading “Plan To Allow Election Smear Campaigns”.

This story has a lot of handwringing about the ‘Swift Boat’ campaign in America (as if the idea of ‘President Kerry’ appealed to anyone other than Bin Laden), and a few leaflets printed by the Exclusive Brethren chuch in 2005.

Good to know they are simply reporting facts about Simon Powers proposals and not injecting their own ideology and opinions and fears into the story.

What I find amusing is how attempts to curb others freedom of speech rights always seem to come from those quarters who think they are going to lose if the truth about them became public knowledge.

You can have left wingers screaming from rooftops that Don Brash/Richard Prebble/Rodney Hide (etc) are dangerous right wing fanatics and they rub their hands together at the publicity – and potential to gain right wing votes from the additional publicity; but anyone pointing out the left are dangerous fanatics seeking to damage our nation is viewed as some sort of conspiracy which requires banning.

Perhaps the left, if you scratch the surface, know they have no moral legitimacy and the average elector knows it too.

http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
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September 29, 2009 9:54am
Luc Hansen

Who wants to join me in a campaign to outlaw religious instruction to our children?

Just like for sexual relations, drinking, driving etc there should be an age where children may give informed consent to such indoctrination. I suggest about 45 years old, but it’s negotiable.

And for starters, close down those subversive, money-grubbing so-called faith based schools!
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September 29, 2009 9:56am
virtualmark

So Luc, just let me make sure I understand what you’re proposing … you want to shut down the other guy’s ideology so that you can replace it with your ideology?
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September 29, 2009 9:58am
village idiot

If the previous Finance Minister and Deputy Prime Minister had been rorting us and was found out, we’d be baying !!!

Cullen Must Go!! Now!!! Aoooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!
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September 29, 2009 10:00am
Luc Hansen

Elijah, your favoured crowd is in power now, in case you had not noticed, and one of their first actions was to can our promised tax cuts.

Yet we have been told tax cuts generate economic growth and right now we need economic growth.

Perhaps the right, if you scratch the surface, don’t have believe their own propaganda!
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September 29, 2009 10:00am
Luc Hansen

Not all all virtual – I advocate an absence of ideology for our young. Although I certainly concede that in itself that is an ideology. But, as you say, at least it’s my ideology 🙂
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September 29, 2009 10:03am
virtualmark

Exactly.
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September 29, 2009 10:05am
Elijah Lineberry

Luc Hansen, no, my favoured crowd is not in power; alas the Libertarianz party was pipped at the post on election day… *sigh*

I would cut off my hand and eat it before I ticked the National party box on a ballotpaper.

http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
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September 29, 2009 10:07am
pentwig

Jcuknz

I have been a mariner for 40 years, the last 11 internationally, and have found no significant weather pattern changes in that time which include the periodic changes. In 10 years time when the data from the newly placed global marine weather buoys is colatted this will become apparent IMHO.
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September 29, 2009 11:02am
MikeNZ

Just read Murial newman’s latest post.
http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly199.htm

I fear national wants a second term so bad they’ll commit to anything.
Simon Power has already said they want to sign the Indigenous Peoples Treaty at the UN.
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September 29, 2009 11:10am
peterwn

See:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10600210

“Customs searches spark protest”

“A spokeswoman for Customs Minister Maurice Williamson said he could not comment on the case as it was an operational matter.”

This might be a good time to note that Ministers should not be able to hide behind the ‘operational matter’ excuse too much. If is fair enough when a department is carrying out an active investigation or a judicial process is being worked through. It would be quite improper for say the Police Minister to get involved in a criminal investigation or the Prime Minister to get involved in a Serious Fraud Office investigation which touches on an opposition party.

In this instance, there is no ‘active’ investigation, the guy has been searched with negative results and let through. What is at issue is whether methods in Customs result in some people being unnecessarily for searches, investigations, etc. If so what can be done to sort out the problem. This is not an operational matter but one where the Minister is quite entitled to get involved.

This sort of Ministerial comment is what starts driving nails in a governing party’s coffin as an election looms. IMO this particular Minister helped the demise of the previous National government by not shutting down a ‘fruitcake’ idea to privatise all roads sooner.
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September 29, 2009 11:12am
muppet

Three years. Count them: 1,2,3 for killing an innocent person in a fit of rage over a relatively minor car accident. Outrageous. 36 months…no justice there I see.
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September 29, 2009 11:17am
KiwiGreg

Why has Rabo bank changed their model in the latest ad?
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September 29, 2009 11:28am
starboard

The mighty “Justice” Judith Potter jails bad man for THREE YEARS for road rage attack which resulted in the victim later dying…ho hum…that’ll learn ’em good …wont do that again…massive deterent to other scum…heh..welcome to NZ…
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September 29, 2009 11:34am
menace

In regards to the pole on razor’s no options for me either, i put the scissors to work once every month or so, as i do with my hair every year or two. simple.

peterwn
the above brings me to your post. I also get hounded by customs every time i go through. tehy look all through my stuff, all of it, it takes ages, i holds me up and fucks me off. All these questions about white powder and other BS.
New Zealand and Australia are the worst. every time they do it.

Other countries seem to be a bit more mature and give my apearance a little more respect.
Kiwi’s and Ozzies though don’t seem to be so mature. they think cause i dont look like every other sheep that i must be adruga trafficer or some kind of enemy to society.
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September 29, 2009 11:41am
Colonel Masters

muppet, what else would you expect from Judith Potter?

I still remember her regular appearances on Fair Go years ago explaining why the lawyers’ fidelity fund couldn’t or wouldn’t pay out and grinning quite inappropriately.
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September 29, 2009 11:42am
Colonel Masters

KiwiGreg – ask them on Twitter? (New model is there too.)

http://twitter.com/RaboPlusNZ

EDIT to add: But surely, nobody would deposit funds with a bank simply because they had a hot model on their promotional material?
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September 29, 2009 11:45am
TripeWryter

Who wants to join me in a campaign to outlaw religious instruction to our children?

Just like for sexual relations, drinking, driving etc there should be an age where children may give informed consent to such indoctrination. I suggest about 45 years old, but it’s negotiable.

And for starters, close down those subversive, money-grubbing so-called faith based schools!

So, Luc, if I understand you correctly, you want a law (yet another law) to forbid parents from instructing their children in their religious faith — whether it be Catholicism, Baptistism, Calathumpianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam …

Why would you want to do that?
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September 29, 2009 11:46am
nickb

This piece of slime gets 3 years??

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2912895/Student-jailed-for-killing-pensioner-in-road-rage-attack

When are we going to say enough is enough? Manslaughter? He brutally murdered an old man for a driving incident, this guy is no better than your ordinary murderer
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September 29, 2009 11:52am
menace

I approve of wide spectrum philosophical education.
But indoctrination at young age’s is not good and nearly could be classed as perverse.
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September 29, 2009 11:52am
KiwiGreg

@ Colonel Masters thanks for link.

I don’t bank with them personally (although they are a great bank, with a unique structure), I just really dig the model they use in most of their NZ ads.
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September 29, 2009 11:59am
Johnboy

“O’Brien comes from a prominent family on the Pacific island Funafuti, capital of the Tuvalu group. His father was prominent in local government on Funafuti.”

That must be the reason for the light sentence they say crims always look after each other.
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September 29, 2009 11:59am
starboard

..a job for Mr McVicar and the SST…I feel sorry for Mr Patels family…what a joke..absolute joke…
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September 29, 2009 12:11pm
Kris K

starboard 11:34 am,

The mighty “Justice” Judith Potter jails bad man for THREE YEARS for road rage attack which resulted in the victim later dying…ho hum…that’ll learn ‘em good …wont do that again…massive deterent to other scum…heh..welcome to NZ…

You beat me to it Starboard.
What a bloody slap with a wet bus ticket – pathetic!
As far as I’m concerned this piece of excrement should have been done for murder, and got no less than 10 years without parole!
Unfriggin’ unbelievable!
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September 29, 2009 12:12pm
Brian Smaller

Kris K – I too was incredulous that this guy got such a weak sentence. He beat a defenceless old man to death. Would he had to have violated his corpse before Justice Potter gave a real sentence?
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September 29, 2009 12:22pm
nickb

You’re being stalked by the commie apologists again DPF

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/flexible-farrar/

Again the Standard and Labour try to rewrite history
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September 29, 2009 12:30pm
virtualmark

menace, surely we all “indoctrinate” our children. But most people are content to call that good parenting.

I doubt you’d object when we “indoctrinate” our children with manners, moral standards, “look left before crossing the road” etc etc.

So just what is it about “indoctrination” that you object to? And why do you suppose that the things you would prefer they be taught be any more accurate, reliable, useful or sound than what other parents might choose to “indoctrinate” their children with?
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September 29, 2009 12:42pm
Brian Smaller

My kids are both at religious schools, although I myself am an atheist and I have no clue what my wife is because I have never asked her. They will make up their own minds. They know where I sit on the whole religion thing.
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September 29, 2009 1:04pm
Luc Hansen

Well, Virtual, we finally managed to get a law against all physical violence inflicted on our children, so we gotta strike while the iron’ s hot!

Moral standards are somewhat problematical when one’s own country sends our troops to fight a meaningless war, killing mainly civilians and impeding any progress towards a sustainable peace in that country. And when the ” leader of the free world does the same”, but on a grander scale, in many places.

Rather than teaching a particular version of moral standards, far better to stick to the law and let people work out their own answers to the various conundrums that arise in the course of our daily lives. Laws are relatively concrete, as are in fact, everyday societal norms, unlike the moving feast of moral standards.

And using state money to subsidise the willful ignorance that is inherent in religion is a gross misuse of state funds, in my opinion.

Similarly, concepts such as altruism exist outside of a religious framework, and are all the better for it. Altruism in response to the threats or rewards of religions (particularly our Judeo-Christian framework) is simply selfishness.
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September 29, 2009 1:18pm
BlackMoss

i agree with Luc
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September 29, 2009 1:24pm
Hurf Durf

killing mainly civilians

Citation needed.

On a related note, even the Afghans are getting pissed off with Hussein’s softly softly approach. He’s talked to McChrystal once in the last seven months and I’m expected to believe he’s “crafting a new strategy?” You heard it here first: he’s getting ready to bug out. But don’t worry, Chicago will get the 2016 Olympics so that makes everything better.
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September 29, 2009 1:31pm
big bruv

I think Luc is an idiot.
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September 29, 2009 1:37pm
menace

virtualmark.

I’m obviously speaking in regards to religion.

Manners, working for a living etc is logically correct.

Assuming we live in the same society you should understand what im on about bro
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September 29, 2009 1:40pm
Kris K

big bruv 1:37 pm,

I think Luc is an idiot.

… and I KNOW he is.
Trouble is, these kinds of idiots are gaining traction, and influencing policy, etc.
Just look at the czars that Obamination is surrounding himself with. Or our last government for that matter.
The future looks increasingly scary with this sort of influx.
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September 29, 2009 1:59pm
Kris K

menace 1:40 pm,

virtualmark.
I’m obviously speaking in regards to religion.
Manners, working for a living etc is logically correct.

So Menace, indoctrination is ok provided it meets ‘your’ “logically correct” standard? And of course, excludes any moral foundation as espoused in, for instance, the bible?

You ignore the fact that most ‘freedoms’ we recognise in the west are a direct derivation of Judeo-Christian values as outlined in the Bible (well until recently anyway). Freedom of speech, democracy, many of our laws, freedom of association, etc are all things that many nations without a Judeo-Christian heritage simply do not have.

People like you, and the ideas you put forth, truly scare me!
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September 29, 2009 2:11pm
philu

this is cool..!..auckland has a ‘free-space’..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/this-is-coolauckland-now-has-a-freespacesupportusehelp-iteh/

“..AK free space exists to promote and foster a supportive and vibrant community ..

.. that actively challenges individualism and inequality..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 29, 2009 2:19pm
Rakaia George

Freedom of speech, democracy, many of our laws, freedom of association, etc are all things that many nations without a Judeo-Christian heritage simply do not have.

Kris, correlation does not imply causation – many of the democratic institutions of the English-speaking world have their roots in pre-christian Norse and Anglo-Saxon traditions…
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September 29, 2009 2:33pm
menace

@ kiss

As Rakaia sayith the bible has its roots in pre bible times.
The morals we generaly adhere to these days are logical, they are based on the fact that i have equal right as you have and that we should not impose on each others.
Fortunaitly it does not require a man written book that became very popular for these ideas to become obviously correct and practised.

I will clarify, when i talk about religious indoctrination i am referring to public school level.
If it is your personal choice to send your children to a private religious school be my guest.

The god stuff was rammed down my throat and i wasnt made aware of other choice’s, im not bitter about it, in hind sight it was a good lesson that doing so with out other info is dangerous for the Kids in my opinion.

I was a bit shocked when i eventually realised what a load of shit(in my opinion) had been forced on me
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September 29, 2009 2:53pm
Pete George

“a direct derivation of Judeo-Christian values as outlined in the Bible (well until recently anyway). Freedom of speech, democracy, many of our laws,”

Many of our laws have become fairer and more humane than earlier bible and God derived legal processes. For example we are fortunate we don’t still have Trials by Ordeal which for a time replaced previous non-Christian versions of justice.
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September 29, 2009 2:53pm
peterwn

nickb and others. For murder the offender would have needed to intentionally inflict injuries likely to lead to death and death resulted. As the victim fell and hit his head this criteriaon was not met though it was a fairly close call IMO. Sentencing precedents would have left the judge with little room to manoevre. Perhaps she could have started at 5 and allowed only one year off for the rather late guilty plea.

IMO someone who commits a moderate assault which happens to end in death or grave injury should be looking for at least 10 yeard.
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September 29, 2009 3:14pm
malcolm

I’m sure many here have read stuff by Gareth Morgan. I haven’t for a long time but was just re-reading some of this writing on Maori and economics. This one is particularly good:

http://articles.garethmorgan.com/more-evidence-the-maori-model-is-bunk_336.html

Let’s have Gareth discussing this with Pita Sharples on the telly. That would make a decent programme.
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September 29, 2009 3:15pm
Luc Hansen

For Hurf Durf

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0731/p06s15-wosc.html

In addition, although I don’t have time to dig up the link, in a recent interview on http://www.democracynow.com Imran Khan spoke of official Pakistani figures of 14 militants and 700 civilians killed in US drone attacks in Pakistan. Actually, the part of Pakistan that used to be part of the Pashtun community before the British scrawled the Durand Line down the middle!

I would like to think this issue is serious enough not to get bogged down in nitpicking but to answer the wider question: do we have have legitimate cause to send troops to kill Afghans?

I say not, but I am keen to hear reasoned arguments, especially non-racist arguments, to the contrary.
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September 29, 2009 3:25pm
Luc Hansen

Malcolm, such a debate would be informative, for sure. Maybe DPF can suggest it to Maori TV.

Just glancing at the article, I think it is a bit of a straw man argument as most of us are well aware that Maori was a tribal society. This does not invalidate mechanisms for lifting Maori incomes and health outcomes, for example.

But it does validate allowing Tuhoe, who appear to have the strongest individual nationalistic identity, a degree of autonomy in the heartland. Any agreement on that?
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September 29, 2009 3:35pm
Hurf Durf

Nice work using Democracy Now as a source. What do you do for an encore? MoveOn?

do we have legitimate cause to send troops to kill Taliban thugs?

Yes, we do. Even more so considering Pakistan’s started to pull its finger out in terms of fighting terrorist forces along the border. Remember when this was “the good war?” You want to leave the Afghans to rot again like we did in 1989? It’ll be tough but no one wins an insurgency way by half-arsing it. Even Bush learned that lesson.
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September 29, 2009 3:54pm
malcolm

Luc, I think his point is that via the Treaty Settlements etc the government has/is giving a lot of cash and assets to tribal structures with collective ownership, but which haven’t shown that they are beneficial to the individuals under them.

He points out that collective ownership and tribal governance is incompatible with a western capitalist society and will probably just lead to under-utilised assets and nepotism.

That article was from 2000, but is prophetic. Now Pita Sharples et al are pushing more of this idea that the maori tribal structure/culture is some magic thing which will raise the aspirations and living standard of maori, despite the fact that there has been scant evidence of this. With or without substantial funding from the taxpayer.

This is another good and related article about Samoa:

http://articles.garethmorgan.com/samoa—lessons-from-another-frustrated-tribal-model_333.html

Anyway I don’t want to rehash his arguments. I just re-read these and thought they were good articles and still very relevant and people might be interested in them.

cheers

Malcolm
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September 29, 2009 4:09pm
Luc Hansen

I see you reworded my question, Hurf, and fair enough. My answer is still No. This operation has been botched from start to finish. The Taliban were not involved in 9/11 and were undoubtedly as surprised as the rest of the world. Their sin was not handing Bin Laden over to the US without some modicum of procedure – the US demanded instant rendition. For that sin, thousands of Afghan civilians have died quite unnecessarily.

But I don’t care for or about the Taliban; that is a matter for Afghans to sort out.

And if indeed you want to ” defeat,” whatever that means in this context, the Taliban, ” half-arsing it” is exactly what is going on and will continue to go on even with the proposed surge. Iran is criticised for its dickey election but Afghanistan’s was just as bad and this is the govt we are propping up. Where’s the consistency?

We have succeeded in the main mission. Al Qaeda is crippled, although certainly we need to keep the pressure on. I have no objection to fighting terrorists in Pakistan, but not in a clumsy manner that destroys the lives and incomes of locals.

Imagine if it was happening to us.

Like all imperial adventures, when the time comes, it’s best just to quit. As Ghandi said to the British: Don’t worry about what happens after you go, that’s none of your business. Just pack up and leave!
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September 29, 2009 5:33pm
Elijah Lineberry

Sarah Palin is about to release her autobiography and what I find astonishing (apart from its grammatically incorrect title) is to find out the book will be 400 pages long.

How on earth a lot of drivel about driving children to hockey games, seeing Russia from her house, being Mayor of the Alaska equivalent of Naseby, Governor of a barren wasteland and her seemingly deliberate foot tripping of John McCain could run to so many pages is beyond me!

America is certainly in a sorry, sorry way if someone like her is viewed as a ‘Hero’ and 2012 Presidential candidate.

http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
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September 29, 2009 5:46pm
adc

what’s with the parole board?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10600192

Do they think the only criterion for letting someone out early is if they think the person won’t affend again? What about the major purpose of sentences serving as a deterrent to others? Does that not matter any more? I can now fake my own death, claim insurance and I’ll be out in a year? The dim-wittedness of this parole board is astounding.

I reckon ban parole, dismantle the ridiculous parole board. Their existence only serves as an opportunity to make more mistakes.
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September 29, 2009 5:51pm
Hurf Durf

Iran is criticised for its dickey election but Afghanistan’s was just as bad and this is the govt we are propping up. Where’s the consistency?

The few problems in regards to counting the vote (what do you expect from somewhere as backward as Afghanistan?) aren’t even in the same league as the blatant vote rigging and subsequent brutal crackdown in Iran. Welcome to international power politics anyway, you cretin.

but not in a clumsy manner that destroys the lives and incomes of locals.

Yeah, like all those “wedding parties” with the bearded women.

Imagine if it was happening to us.

Your kind would love it if it was happening to us.

imperial adventures

Wow, congratulations, you’re even more of a tool than I thought. Remember when this was “the good war?”
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September 29, 2009 5:55pm
Viking2

New old subject.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,26140191-36375,00.html
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September 29, 2009 7:18pm
Hurf Durf

But China is a green utopia!
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September 29, 2009 7:41pm
Kris K

Viking2 7:18 pm,

From your link:

CHINA’S ambition to create “green cities” powered by huge wind farms comes with a dirty little secret: Dozens of new coal-fired power plants need to be installed as well.

Part of the reason is that wind power depends on, well, the wind. To safeguard against blackouts when conditions are too calm, officials have turned to coal-fired power as a backup.

This is of course the problem with many of the alternative green energy options; that they mostly rely on intermittent generation. Whether wind, solar, wave action, etc and to a lesser degree hydro. Although, as we’ve observed in recent years, even hydro has its limitations.

Without coal/oil/gas fired, and/or nuclear power generation there is no way any nation can guarantee continuous supply. Even NZ with ~70% hydro still needs such alternatives on standby – and we’re better set up in this regard than most. If we’re not prepared to use coal, oil or gas fired generation then nuclear is the only real ‘green’ alternative. Although I’m sure most ‘greenies’ would debate the point.
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September 29, 2009 8:28pm
Steve

Just had a look at Frogblog. Amazing the amount of posts.
The comments are on par with other blogs, that’s if two hits is a good thing.
FFS no wonder the bastards plague this blog, nobody cares about Frogblog.

Not a lot care about the Red Rag either, are they up to speed with daylight saving yet? Resident duck would not know night from day.

Now that Howie the Mowree is over, the TVNZ clowns can go back home and have a few days rest. I have had enough of them banging the drum and want some real news. But they will not give it a rest, the Mowree drum will be banged on all of the morning.
Waiting for the Greens bullshit about Sir Howard Morrison, what a great conservationist he was…. spin it
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September 29, 2009 8:33pm
Luc Hansen

Ah, Hurf, now you are starting to hit your stride. A couple of after-work beers settling in now? Good for you.

No, I never considered this a good war. We should never have gone after the Taliban. A Special Forces mission could have taken care of Bin Laden and his gang. If the US couldn’t do it on their own, I am sure the Israelis would have been happy to lend a practised hand 🙂

Your “few problems” amount to hundreds of thousands of rigged votes and pressure from both candidate’s forces and the Taliban that deterred people from voting in many areas.

What have you got against wedding parties? Even the US has admitted to many instances of slaughter of civilians at family gatherings etc. Some may be played up, for sure, but the evidence is overwhelming. The US calls them mistakes, and fair enough, but these mistakes occur so often that the conclusion is that Afghan civilian lives have no value.

Racism.

My objection is not the goal of getting Al Qaeda, but the laissez faire attitude towards civilian deaths. If that makes me a tool, my friend, so be it.
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September 29, 2009 8:37pm
Johnboy

Yeah Steve. Hansen the Jew-haters blog and Elijah the whankers blog are similar–slightly better than phil the phool—he gets 300 posts with no comments. The Frog is actually quite good if he gets two comments per post.
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September 29, 2009 8:39pm
Hurf Durf

Yeah, it makes you a tool. It makes you a bigger tool for playing the race card. It makes you a large tool for not recognising that in a guerilla war, civilian casualties will always be inevitable in such a situation and that the only thing that can be done to mitigate them is continuing surgical strikes and application of special forces. It makes you a massive tool for applying moral equivilency to the Afghanistan and Iran elections. If you were any more of a tool I could use you to assemble a bookcase.
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September 29, 2009 8:53pm
Johnboy

” If you were any more of a tool I could use you to assemble a bookcase.”

Ah think that was ‘shithouse’ Hurf not ‘bookcase’. What the fuck you drinkin—-beers he said? I’m on Gordons at the mo. 🙂
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September 29, 2009 8:58pm
Luc Hansen

Hi Johnboy, you big brave boy you, hiding behind a pseudonym. Never mind.

Please don’t call me a Jew-hater. Objecting to the actions of Zionists and Israel the state does not and should not in any way indicate that I hate Jews, because I don’t.

When I broke up with my one and only only Jewish girlfriend it was nothing to do with her being a Jew. Quite the contrary. She just objected to my (then) wandering tendencies 🙂

Since you have obviously visited my blog, please feel free to engage me on the facts. I only moderate it to keep out the anti-Semites who otherwise would flood my comments sections. I would post anti-Arab comments quite happily, because that’s just simple racism as opposed the absolutely heinous crime of anti-Semitism, but have not had any.
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September 29, 2009 8:58pm
Johnboy

Touched a nerve eh—–just luv it when that happens.
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September 29, 2009 9:01pm
Johnboy

“When I broke up with my one and only only Jewish girlfriend it was nothing to do with her being a Jew. Quite the contrary.”

You remind me of that racist fellow who said–“My best friend is black”
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September 29, 2009 9:03pm
Johnboy

“She just objected to my (then) wandering tendencies :-)”

You and Elijah at the Jewish cemetary then?
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September 29, 2009 9:04pm
village idiot

Johnboy said:

I’m on Gordons at the mo.

On Gordon’s what?

When you say, at the mo is that a referrence to his moustache?

Johnboy! You funster you!
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September 29, 2009 9:05pm
Luc Hansen

I think Hurf is on moonshine by now 🙂
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September 29, 2009 9:09pm
Steve

Not Phool’s fault he does not get comments ..
..just that nobody cares for link junkies..
..that constantly hijack blogs to…
..enhance self importance..
…should I use two or three full stops before or after a part sentence..??

Stupid Prick
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September 29, 2009 9:13pm
village idiot

Touched a nerve eh—–just luv it when that happens.

I’ll bet, Johnboy, I’ll bet (wink, wink!)
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September 29, 2009 9:15pm
dad4justice

Buzz off idiot FFS.
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September 29, 2009 9:18pm
reid

“the only thing that can be done to mitigate them is continuing surgical strikes”

You mean like Gaza, Hurf. That was really surgical, wasn’t it. Everyone could see that. Such restraint. How magnificent it was to see those surgical explosions. Just tiny pin-pricks really. And there were hardly any casualties at all, were there. Apart from the terrorists that is. A text-book operation in every way.
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September 29, 2009 9:18pm
Hurf Durf

1,000 dead Hamas thugs (yeah right, “civilians”) and the massive explosions were secondary blasts from Hamas munitions going off. The only thing they did wrong was not finishing Hamas off entirely.
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September 29, 2009 9:33pm
whalehunter

deleted
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September 29, 2009 9:34pm
reid

That’s right, Hurf. All those photos and videos and days and days of international news footage, that was all just bullshit, wasn’t it.
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September 29, 2009 9:35pm
village idiot

Dad! You can read!
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September 29, 2009 9:38pm
getstaffed

OCEAN TEMPERATURES: THE NEW BLUFF IN CLIMATE ALARMISM

Summary:

Air temperatures have been falling for years. Satellites show that 1998 was the warmest recent year and that a cooling trend started in 2002. Even the land-based thermometer data, which is corrupted by artificial heating sources close to 89% of its thermometers and which is heavily “corrected”, now shows a cooling trend developing from 2006.

The alarmists recently switched to ocean temperature to measure global warming.

The alarmists claim the world is still warming, that heat is building up in the oceans, and that the ocean temperature is rising and rising fast. These claims implicitly depend on a time period to say what a “trend” is, because temperatures fluctuate. The alarmists provide the context by showing trends of 20 to 50 years. This is a clever trick to reframe the debate, and essential to their case.

Ocean temperatures have only been measured properly from mid 2003, when the Argo network became operational. Over 3,000 Argo floats cover all the world’s oceans. They dive down to measure temperatures, then resurface to radio back the information. The previous XBT system did not monitor huge areas of ocean, did not go as deep, and was much less accurate.

Ocean temperatures are dropping slightly. The Argo data shows that the oceans have been cooling slightly since mid 2003.

Short-term trends contradict the alarmist claims. Our best data, from satellites and Argo, shows that the air and oceans have not warmed for at least five years. The world is now cooling slightly, so there is no heat accumulating. Some natural cooling force is currently stronger than the warming due to human emissions.

Long-term trends contradict the alarmist claims. The world has been recovering from the little ice age, warming at a steady trend rate since 1750 with alternate warming and cooling oscillations of about 30 years. The pattern suggests we have just finished the last warming, and have entered a cooling period until about 2030.

The latest alarmist claims are a bluff. The alarmist claims only appear credible if trends shorter than 10 years or longer than 50 years are ignored. But it will take time to inform the public and politicians that the alarmist’s claims are baseless. With the US climate bill now being debated and the Copenhagen climate conference coming up in December 2009, they only need to make the public believe their schtick for a few months.

Problems with alarmist graphs of ocean heat. They omit Argo data by stopping in 2003, or contradict it by showing ocean warming continuing through 2006.
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September 29, 2009 10:02pm
Luc Hansen

Hmmm. Hurf, you might have your facts wrong here, 1000 Hamas dead. Here is a link for you.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Press_Releases/20090909.asp

B’tselem is an Israeli human rights organisation, run by Jews within Israel, who apply rigorous standards to their analysis.

Out of 1387 deaths, Hurf, it finds only 330 were militants (and Hamas did not engage and lost the least).

And do you know how the Israelis opened Operation Cast Lead?

Not only was their first strike on a police graduation ceremony (police in Gaza are mainly traffic control) but the general attack was timed to coincide for the end of the school day, when the narrow streets were crowded with children. Just kids wanting to go home.

Just go visit the site, Hurf, and look at the truth. I promise, you will not be struck blind!
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September 29, 2009 10:27pm
reid

“Just go visit the site, Hurf, and look at the truth. I promise, you will not be struck blind!”

Problem is Luc, he probably won’t even visit it or if he does he’ll just scorn it as propaganda. You’ll find on this blog many who’ve been sucked into the vortex of useful idiocy that is blindly Israel-first. Blind as-in, incapable of being impartial.

The irony is, people like Hurf and others like him, see straight through lefty idiots like the Greens and Liarbore who commit execrable acts “in the name of the cause.” And yet while they see that folly perfectly clearly, for some reason they can’t see that blindly supporting Israel’s unnecessary and counter-productive aggression is a precise mirror.
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September 29, 2009 10:53pm
Luc Hansen

Thank you Reid. I see this slavish pro-Israel bias as racism, pure and simple. I was raised in a strongly pro-Israel household and only started researching the conflict in my 30s. It didn’t take me long to work out who was suffering the injustice, without in anyway detracting from the tragedy of the Holocaust.

Europeans are an inherently racist lot. Because Israel (those cowering behind the wall) is largely European, our default setting is to side with them.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t advocate expelling Israel’s Jews. I just advocate equal application of the principles of human rights.

I see our govt is mulling signing the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/LTD/G06/125/71/PDF/G0612571.pdf?OpenElement

Check out PP5.
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September 29, 2009 11:16pm
Hurf Durf

Haha, “the troof.” As in, “dem zionists are worse than dem neocons.” Sorry, but keep your troof. Enjoy being played as fifth column agents of the Islamist movement, though.
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September 30, 2009 1:13am
reid

“dem zionists are worse than dem neocons”

Fuckin d’oh, Hurf.

Dem zionists = dem neocons.

Don’t you know anything?
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September 30, 2009 6:18am
expat

If there were no oil in the middle east the whole area would have been nuked in the late 70’s.
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September 30, 2009 6:57am

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