General Debate 12 September 2009

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Akaroa

Ha! First to post again. Wakey wakey out there!!
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September 12, 2009 8:13am
dimmocrazy

I’d like to do a little poll here. I have now been booted off the Red Rag comments twice, first by explaining to Trevor Mallard what he should do to roll Phill Goff, second for pretending to be at this weekend’s Labour conference. (Trevor wanted me to confirm what sort of shoes he was wearing, to see if I was making it up).
Anybody else had the experience in being ‘progrommed’ off our liberal leftist site?
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September 12, 2009 8:24am
andrei

Anybody else had the experience in being ‘progrommed’ off our liberal leftist site?

Nope

Trevor is pretty fair IMHO, he tries to keep comments seemly – edits occasionally and issues warnings and I’ve seen lefties given the boot as well as righties.

You gotta play by the rules and you will be fine
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September 12, 2009 8:30am
Grant Michael McKenna

I think that lying about presence somewhere is a reason to eject somebody.
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September 12, 2009 8:35am
Viking2

Agree, if you want the high moral ground from lying pollies then you can’t get that by lying.
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September 12, 2009 8:56am
Cerium

“Undie 500 chaos in Dunedin again”

I think the TV media has a lot to answer for for this, they have been talking it up all week, in effect promoting it, they take their cameras in and effectively invite the boofheads. It’s not just students that get involved, prats from around the city and beyond home in on an excuse to trash other people’s places.
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September 12, 2009 9:22am
Patrick Starr

“I think that lying about presence somewhere is a reason to eject somebody.”

so Trevor DOES frequent Mighty Mighty wearing soft red leather high heel shoes?

http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2009/09/11/conference-starts/comment-page-1/#comment-9515
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September 12, 2009 9:26am
backster

Well TREV was expecting everyone to think he would turn up in Jackboots, but my guess is he will be trying to garner future leadership support from the greenies so perhaps Roman Sandals.
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September 12, 2009 9:44am
Blue Coast

I see old Jimmmy A turned up at the Liarbour conference for the first time in many years. Any hope that Liarbour would change is clearly gone with their welcoming back of this old coot.
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September 12, 2009 10:23am
kaya

Unbelievable!! From the US. CNN reported the Coastguard had warned and engaged vessels on the Potomac River, not far from the Pentagon and close to where a memorial service for 9/11 victims was being held with Obama speaking. They reported 10 rounds of ammunition (calibre not specified) had been fired.
Turns out it was a training exercise and no shots had been fired, don’t know who looks more stupid, the Coastguard for having an exercise same day and time and in the vicinity of the memorial service or CNN for reporting and exaggerating what was happening. Only in America.

http://tinyurl.com/l5tvp8
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September 12, 2009 1:14pm
big bruv

This morning I watched a doco about the 9/11 conspiracy nutters, after watching it I am now of the opinion that I should add 9/11 conspiracy nutters to the following list of scum.

Child molesters
Rapists
Paedophiles
Murders
Green party members.
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September 12, 2009 1:31pm
big bruv

I hear that B Hussein Messiah Obama could not be bothered turning up at the ground zero commemoration.

The man is a fucking disgrace.
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September 12, 2009 1:36pm
Cerium

On Friday morning, in two solemn events, Obama echoed the previous calls he has made for the nation to come together on this grim anniversary, as it did in the days immediately after the attacks.

At 8:46 a.m., Obama and first lady Michelle Obama gathered with roughly 200 members of the White House staff on the South Lawn to mark the moment when American Airlines Flight 11 slammed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center. Three bells rang and the president bowed his head for a minute of silence, then turned with his wife, who was dressed in black, and walked back into the White House. The annual silent remembrance began under former president George W. Bush.

Later, at the Pentagon, Obama laid a wreath of white flowers at the memorial for those who died when American Airlines Flight 77 hit the building.
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September 12, 2009 1:40pm
big bruv

Wow…so B Hussein Messiah Obama managed to leave the white house for five mins.

I am surprised he remembered, no doubt he went back inside and raised a glass to his Muslim pals who dies piloting the jets that day.

[DPF: Oh get real. You really need to learn how to disagree with someone’s policies without feeling the need to paint them as a traitor who supports mass murder. Your words condemn you far more than they do Obama]
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September 12, 2009 1:56pm
kaya

big bruv – That is probably the most gross post I have seen on this site since I first visited. Are you talking about those nutters who think Bush and Cheney plotted the whole thing or just anyone in general who has concerns about why certain questions around what happened were not answered adequately if at all? If you are including the latter your statement is fucked, extremely inflammatory and should see you kicked off the site for a month.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_opinion_polls

We are not talking about some tiny fringe minority here, we are talking substantial numbers of people. Disagree vehemently if you like, but to align them with what you have done is beyond the pale. It is disgraceful.
Let’s just say it is a statement that would get you a fairly extreme response if you said it face to face to some people.

Some of your comments make sense, that one is pathetic.
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September 12, 2009 2:03pm
dimmocrazy

Bruv, I take offence with that. You must realize that there are many types of “nutters” around the 9/11 issue. There are the tinfoil hatters that see the devil’s face in clouds etc, there are those who see all sorts of government conspiracies with alrge banks playing a role etc and many other groups that take more or less weird angles.
There is also a large contingent of people from the scientific community, that simply refuse to accept the official account of what happened, because it simply does not comply with anything that can be objectively calculated/understood from what can be deducted from the physical reality of what happened.
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September 12, 2009 2:14pm
big bruv

kaya & dimmo

Innocent people died that day, those conspiracy nutters insult every single one of those people with their idiotic theories.

Every single one of these theories has been debunked yet these vermin still insist on shitting on the families who lost loves ones that day.

Would you allow the same latitude to those who deny the holocaust?
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September 12, 2009 2:53pm
dimmocrazy

I should perhaps give one example to get people thinking. If you drop a stone from a building, you can calculate the distance it travels as a function of time. From that you can also work out what its speed is at any moment during the fall. This is basic physics: Vt=Vo+at for the speed at t, and St=Vot+0.5atsq for the distance, where a is gravitational acceleration.
These numbers apply to what is called freefall, i.e. there is nothing obstructing the falling item. This applies to anything, and is also why a feather falls as fast as a rock, as long as you do the test in a vacuum, i.e. where you remove the obstructing air.

Now if a building collapses into its own footprint (which all three towers did, yes you see that correctly, there was a third 47-story building that also collapsed that day, without being hit), this means that every part of that building has collapsed through the path of MOST resistance. Picture for instance the top storey, which must fall on the one under it, and then they collapse together on the third, and so forth. Each floor must collapse before the whole thing is on the ground, and that slows things down of course.

For those who still follow me, this means that a collapsing building can never fall within the time or with the speed of freefall, UNLESS the resistance to falling has been removed by carefully controlled explosions, as they do in commercial demolition.

Video of the collapsing buildings on 9/11 shows that this is however precisely what happened, these buildings fell to a tee within the time determined by freefall calculation.

This is but one of the things that has never been explained to satisfaction. For those interested, a week or so ago I posted a link to a site run by architects, engineers and a whole bunch of other PhD’s. Don’t take my word for any of this, just have a look.

Note also that there is nobody there who has any sort of conspiracy theory (neither do I), it’s just a matter of trying to understand what might have happened, or how it can be explained
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September 12, 2009 2:58pm
Cerium

Dimmo, if I read you correctly, you are suggesting that there were explosives installed on each level of each building, presumably needing to at least be at all support positiions, and all exploded at precisely the right time? Is there any evidence of this? Did anyone notice the explosives being planted?
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September 12, 2009 3:06pm
dimmocrazy

Cerium, that’s where it gets into conspiracy theory and there are several around that issue that you’ll be able to find out there.
What is a fact though, is that the video’s contain evidence of explosions at the time of collapse, that survivors talked about explosions, that there was much chemical residue of high tech explosions in the enormous amount of dust, and that there was a huge pool of molten metal under the buildings weeks after the collapse, to name but a few facts that don’t comply with the official account, which holds that the floors ‘pancaked’ onto one another, after the jet fuel weakened the construction. In respect of that last point, the third building was not hit by a jet, and there has never in history been a steel framed high rise building destructed by fire, not even by much hotter fires than those at the WTC.
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September 12, 2009 3:23pm
philu

“..Trevor is pretty fair IMHO, he tries to keep comments seemly – edits occasionally and issues warnings and I’ve seen lefties given the boot as well as righties…”

gee andrei..!

in terms of accuracy..that’s right up there with the rationales behind yr gay-bashing rants..

eh..?

and..mallard is the highest-paid blog-censor in the country..

..after all..

and is up there with that other notorious blog-censor..spondre .. in only allowing sycophantic comments..

..and no questions/ing..

..he/it is a joke..!

.and if this is ‘new’ labour..?

meh..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 12, 2009 3:55pm
Johnboy

Nice to see Phil took his wife to the Liarbour conference. Helen always took hers.
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September 12, 2009 5:12pm
racer1

My thoughts are with Dad4justice, he must be going through a very difficult time at the moment, I am very sorry for his loss, and the general situation he has found himself in over it.
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September 12, 2009 6:54pm
big bruv

What has D4J done now Racer?
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September 12, 2009 6:58pm
calendar girl

See John Armstrong (2009 “Best Political Columnist”) in the Herald on MMP. In his breathless advocacy for MMP, he attributes nefarious intent to National that is difficult to reconcile with that party’s history on the matter and PM Key’s luke-warm enthusiasm for the proposed referendum.

Armstrong’s emphises and selective arguments are so strident that they invite conclusions of political partisanship that most professional commentators endeavour to conceal. (The whole article reduces my faith in the annual media award to an even lower level than previously.)
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September 12, 2009 7:08pm
Johnboy

Think he was acting as advocate for Somerville in relation to his children.

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/6024651/cyf-may-have-saved-lives-of-somerville-children/

Still no reflection on him and what he was doing that Somerville appears to be a murderer.
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September 12, 2009 7:09pm
Johnboy

Armstrong almost ranks with Rudman as a contender for the “Lenin Prize for Best Unbiased Propagandist Award” for 2009.
Results will be out in next weeks “Listener”.
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September 12, 2009 7:15pm
grumpyoldhori

dimmocrazy I’ve done a fair amount of work with explosives , but I cannot see how they would have put the shaped charges so that neither they nor wires/cordex could avoid being seen.

How did they time the charges with the floor above falling into and crushing the charges and timers ?
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September 12, 2009 7:28pm
philu

three out of four democrats want the american war in afghanistan to end..

(why are we there again..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 12, 2009 7:29pm
big bruv

Not sure that D4J deserves praise for that work, it looks like CYF were right to keep the kids away.
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September 12, 2009 7:29pm
Hurf Durf

Looks like they’re prepping Afghanistan to be flushed down the shitter. And after all that noise about it being the “good war,” too. Pity Bush didn’t extend the surge strategy to Afghanistan.
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September 12, 2009 7:31pm
Johnboy

“three out of four democrats want the american war in afghanistan to end..”

The fourth was Ted Kennedy but he don’t give shit a now.
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September 12, 2009 7:31pm
big bruv

“(why are we there again..?..)”

I would have thought the best reason might be “because the green party say we should not be”.

We are there Phool because we are finally doing out bit, we are finally fronting up and helping in the global war on terror, we should have been part of it from day one.
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September 12, 2009 9:22pm
Angus

Key may achieve 3 terms but that’ll be it – none of the major systemic problems facing NZ will be addressed. Hagiographic references to him just don’t cut it for me.

Big Bruv. – d4j maybe a bit harsh and OTT at times, but he does do good voluntary work . . . salt of the earth freezing worker y’know !
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September 12, 2009 9:45pm
big bruv

Oh…and by the way, the All Blacks got beat……nobody cared.
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September 12, 2009 10:09pm
Bok

jesus I know you guys are not in the frame as far as world rugby is concerned (no world cup since the real one started – SA involved) but how much did you pay the ref to make it look like a game? Shame on you.
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September 12, 2009 11:02pm
Angus

This is one thing everyone should care about. And it’s coming NZ’s way soon:

http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=680
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September 12, 2009 11:42pm
kaya

DPF you are a disgrace and a hypocrite. If you let Big Bruvs statement at Sept. 12th at 1.31pm stand then this whole site is a fucking joke. Are you saying you agree with the statement made? Are dissenters no different from:

child molesters
paedophiles
rapists

If that is the case then your site is a bigoted joke. Can you imagine if I said something similar about someone else I disagreed with? Lets say the Green Party? Winston Peters? Helen Clark? Fucking pathetic. I thought this was a place of some element of common sense and reasonable debate. What a mistake.
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September 13, 2009 12:36am
Nomestradamus

Kaya:

I find it difficult to understand the rationale for your comment.

1. You call DPF a hypocrite without explaining precisely what the nature of the hypocrisy is. Have you read DPF’s posting policy?

2. A good hall monitor would say exactly what DPF should do. Do you want DPF to delete the comment that you found so offensive? Just because you personally disagree with Big Bruv’s 1.31pm comment is no reason for DPF to moderate it. Have you thought this through? Are you saying DPF should moderate any comment that some Kiwiblog reader or other finds offensive? If so, there’d be virtually no comments here!

3. When someone last complained about DPF’s moderation approach, he said this:

[DPF: If you want to pay me a salary to sit here all day moderating and chairing threads, then I’ll be happy to do so. My rate is $120 an hour so let me know once you have the money]

And this:

[DPF: I’m serious. I have to earn money to survive. My blog probably already costs me tens of thousand of dollars in lost income. When you suggest that I should spend even more hours on it, I will respond accordingly. Suggestions that do not involve lots of time on my part are welcome. Suggestions that cause me to become penniless are less welcome]

Oh, and if you’re into enforcing higher blog standards, how about popping over to The Standard and letting the posters, let alone some of the commenters, know what you think of some of their over-the-top rhetoric?
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September 13, 2009 2:06am
reid

kaya, bb is clearly deluded or an idiot if he really really thinks that the anniversary documentaries on the 911 “conspiracies” have any traction whatsoever.

I half-listened to one last night while playing cards and even in my distracted state I was able to discern that once again, it was lightweight dissembly aimed at useful idiots.

I mean, it’s ridiculous. How can you answer e.g. WTC7 or the Pentagon, in their full complexity, by talking about it for a few secs then pretending the issue is about something else? Which is what they did last night and which is the standard tactic.

BB is clearly a lightweight when it comes to understanding the 911 issues, I suggest you treat him as such and ignore his ignorant rantings on this subject.

Don’t blame DPF. He has to work with the official version in his position and if I were he I would profess his perspective.
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September 13, 2009 2:07am
Nomestradamus

Reid:

kaya, bb is clearly deluded or an idiot if he really really thinks that the anniversary documentaries on the 911 “conspiracies” have any traction whatsoever.

You should find this thread entertaining. Start at my referenced link and read down – you’ll see Philu is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. Paul Buchanan shared his thoughts as well.
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September 13, 2009 2:18am
reid

Nome, my position is simply that the full story ain’t yet told.

Exactly like JFK.

What really happened, who did it and why, I have my personal unspoken thoughts.

But I prefer to stick with the facts.

And those aren’t yet fully revealed and indeed just like JFK, there’s indications they are concealed.

Simple as that.
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September 13, 2009 2:21am
Nomestradamus

Reid:

Just out of interest, and recognising that it’s your subjective opinion, what are your personal unspoken thoughts?
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September 13, 2009 2:25am
kaya

Nomestradamus – I don’t really give a fuck what you tell me DPF’s “rules” are on his posting policy, you fucking child molesting, paedophilic rapist. (My opinion because I disagree with what you say, let’s see how long that comment lasts.)

If I get this far my point is I have seen him kick people and demerit them for a shitload less than this. I am simply pointing out the total hypocrisy.

He nailed Redbaiter and others only 2 days ago for somehow (in his mind) condoning the firebombing of Key’s office in Kumeu. It never happened, it was something he made up based on his own interpretation of an observation made by others. Any rational dissemination of those statements would have came to the same conclusion.

This is completely different. The implication must be that DPF is agreeing with Bruv that ANYONE who dare disagree with ANY aspect of the official version of events around what happened on that horrific day is one of the following:

child molester
paedophile
rapist

To allow this aspersion to be spat out against anyone, just because they disagree with a point of view is a total disgrace. I have no problem being called a fool, idiot, moron or anything similar. Compare me to any of the above to my face and you WILL have a problem.
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September 13, 2009 2:34am
Nomestradamus

Kaya:

Ok, leaving aside your unconstructive first paragraph, you’ve sort of addressed the first of my three points above: you think DPF is taking a hypocritical stance by coming down hard on some comments but not others. So what are your thoughts on my second and third points?
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September 13, 2009 2:49am
reid

I think various intelligence agencies may have known about it due to their contacts and some or all may or may not have have told the Bush Administration. Possibilities include some or all of Israeli, German and Russian Intelligence.

If the Bush Administration knew, it didn’t do anything about it possibly because of incompetence or possibly by design, because it provided the Neocons with a real good Pearl Harbour, which is what they needed and thirsted for, in the PNAC.

I think it’s highly improbable that Bush would have known, he was genuinely surprised and he acted accordingly on the day. At the same time, I also think Cheney and Rumsfeld may have known and did nothing to stop it.

The Secret Service on the day acted in a peculiar fashion: the Principal is at risk from unknown aerial threat, he is at a school within a few mins flying time of an airport, his venue was publicly known and yet they did not evacuate immediately?

Is that normal?
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September 13, 2009 2:51am
reid

kaya, suggest you take some herbal “tea” and just relax mate.

We’re all friends here, until a lefty happens along… (tee hee)
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September 13, 2009 2:56am
kaya

Nomestradamus – if you find my first paragraph unconstructive I can’t help you, I thought the intention of it was obvious.

As for your 2nd and 3rd points, it wasn’t a matter of disagreeing with someone, I have no problem with that as I already said. However I have seen others hammered for much less on this site, all I would look for is consistency which I though it had until this disgusting post.
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September 13, 2009 3:02am
Nomestradamus

Reid:

I asked you to share your personal opinion, acknowledging your view that the full facts aren’t yet known, so in fairness I’m not going to judge that opinion.

Some clarifying questions though:

1. “I think various intelligence agencies may have known about it due to their contacts” – It seems to me that for your opinion to be correct there must have been some actionable intelligence. Are you saying that the various intelligence agencies were aware of a specific threat, as distinct from the many general threats I imagine they come across?

2. “Possibilities include some or all of Israeli, German and Russian Intelligence” – Why do you think the various intelligence agencies, with all their resourcing, didn’t come across this information themselves? Assuming they did receive this intelligence from foreign sources, why from Israeli, German and Russian sources in particular?

You may wish to read Paul Buchanan’s contributions to that thread – like this one:

Phil: I agree that there is a lot of anomalies in the event, but that tends to happen in most catastrophes. It could be that the buildings were pre-rigged because they contained secure sites of various sorts. The reporter may have been told this and then told to shut up. I do not know, and I was not there, but in this case I think that the simple explanation that a bunch of Saudi militants inspired by Osama and al-Zawahiri did the deed is all that suffices. That it became an excuse for Bush/Cheney to embark on their crusade does not mean that they orchestrated it. As I said before, do not underestimate the ineptitude of the Bush administration when it comes to warnings of an imminent attack using airplanes as guided missiles, or the impotence of the fig leaf air defenses that were in place as a result of the lack of action on those threats. Former NSC anti-terrorism expert Richard Clarke has the best word on both.

Perhaps Paul Buchanan, who can claim expertise in this area, may see this discussion and comment further.
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September 13, 2009 3:20am
reid

Oh absolutely I respect Paul’s view, as he also knows.

However, fully and completely understanding and fully resolving to a satisfactory standard 911, involves the view and full input of many specialists, including not just Paul, but also for example, architects, engineers, pilots, demolition experts, journalists, politicians, intelligence specialists, military professionals and various others.

Point is, that hasn’t happened yet.

The MSM pretend it has.

But it hasn’t.

ae911truth.org

Until all the questions there are solved, there is an open inquiry. Just like JFK. Period.
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September 13, 2009 3:29am
Nomestradamus

Kaya:

The intention of your comment was obvious, at least to me, and I didn’t take personal offence. I said it was unconstructive because, as a rhetorical device, it doesn’t really sit well alongside a fairly innocuous comment like mine hopefully was.

DPF recently tried a tough moderation experiment which, I think, wasn’t particularly popular.

For what it’s worth, I think DPF usually gets the moderation balance about right. He comes down hard on outright defamatory statements, which is fair enough because they potentially expose him to secondary legal liability. He cops a lot of personal flack from certain lefties, like Tom Semmens, which he deals with appropriately. Political debate tends to be fairly robust. It’s ultimately up to commenters (who comment here as a privilege, not a right) to stay within DPF’s margin of tolerance. That’s what the demerit system is for.
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September 13, 2009 3:43am
Nomestradamus

Corrected link to DPF’s tough moderation experiment.
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September 13, 2009 3:48am
Nomestradamus

Reid:

Sure. But while a quest for the truth is understandable, a factual inquiry would probably throw up its own problems. I’d draw a distinction between pre-event intelligence and real-time response.

It seems to me that conspiracy theorists have to show conclusive evidence of a cover-up based on pre-event intelligence. Now, in relation to pre-event intelligence, what purports to be a fact may sometimes really amount to subjective opinion. For example, assuming there was a threat, different people will have different views on what constitutes a specific threat (actionable intelligence) as distinct from a general threat (vague and unsubstantiated information) – how do we turn back the clock and assess whether the response was appropriate based on the geopolitical circumstances at the time?

You’ll never get 100% consensus on this.
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September 13, 2009 4:16am
Gulag Archipelago

Why does one have to go to a South African newspaper to get the result of last nights rugby test. NZ journalism at its worst can’t even give the score in the stories about the game.
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September 13, 2009 6:33am
Herman Poole

This is completely different. The implication must be that DPF is agreeing with Bruv that ANYONE who dare disagree with ANY aspect of the official version of events around what happened on that horrific day is one of the following:

child molester
paedophile
rapist

To allow this aspersion to be spat out against anyone, just because they disagree with a point of view is a total disgrace. I have no problem being called a fool, idiot, moron or anything similar. Compare me to any of the above to my face and you WILL have a problem.

911 conspiracy theorists are fucking pricks.

holocaust deniers, child molesters, paedophiles, and rapists are fucking pricks.
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September 13, 2009 9:26am
reid

a factual inquiry would probably throw up its own problems…It seems to me that conspiracy theorists have to show conclusive evidence of a cover-up based on pre-event intelligence.

You bet it would. Why do “conspiracy theorists” need to do that?

As I keep repeating, I see nothing theoretical about the real 911 issue, which is that none of the events, the two towers, WTC7, the pentagon or the plane crash COULD have happened the way the US govt AND the MSM have explained it, based on the laws of physics.

The promulgated explanation is complete bollocks but most people believe it because (a) they want to because the alternative disturbs and (b) they are ignorant of the detail and (c) they don’t think they are ignorant of the detail.

When you look at each of those events, in detail, you have to conclude (there is no choice), that 911 is the first and only time when the laws of physics behaved in a different way to the way they normally operate. That’s precisely what, in great detail, that site I mentioned and many others, has been explaining since it happened.

Any discussion about the resultant geopolitics isn’t really germane to that central point.
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September 13, 2009 9:47am
reid

holocaust deniers, child molesters, paedophiles, and rapists are fucking pricks.

Question, Herman.

Is there any difference between someone who questions the widely-held views about the Holocaust and someone who questions AGW?
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September 13, 2009 9:53am
TimG_Oz

So Holocaust denial is a “widely-held view”?

Strangely enough it’s widely held by anti-semites only …..
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September 13, 2009 10:06am
Herman Poole

Yes,

The holocaust is in the past, events are a matter of historical record and can either have seen to have occurred or not.

AGW is in the future. It is something that hasn’t happened yet.
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September 13, 2009 10:08am
Banana Llama

I not to convinced in regards to certain claims made about the holocaust, specifiably surrounding the use of nerve agents, if you have ever worked with lethal chemicals that can kill or incapacitate once they are in your blood stream you will certainly understand why.

I guess that would make me a Denier and a predator of children and women though.
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September 13, 2009 10:15am
Herman Poole

Banana,

Holocaust denier generally covers those who think the genocidal activities of Hitler did not occur.

Do you think that Hitler did not carry out mass killings of Jews and other groups?
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September 13, 2009 10:19am
TimG_Oz

Banana Llama – I met a woman not long ago with a number tattooed on her arm that was the only survivor out of a group of 1000 people designated as “test subjects” for Josef Mengele at Auscwitz.

Is it just details that you want confirmed or do you doubt the whole thing?
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September 13, 2009 10:27am
Banana Llama

Certain things don’t add up so i’d rather not buy into the official version.
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September 13, 2009 10:31am
Tauhei Notts

Michael Laws’ opinion piece in today’s Sunday Times is worth reading.
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September 13, 2009 10:34am
Patrick Starr

Hey Bok, that’s a bit unfair. It been a long time coming for the yarpies to get picked up on their offside play, hands in the ruck and forward passes. (shit, some of their passes are nearly in the following weeks test)
Whilst theres still a lot they get away with there is also no taking away they have the best kicking game in the world at the moment
The AB’s not in the frame for the RWC? – ha,! Sure we have problems with a hooker who cant throw, two wingers who cant catch, a centre who cant retain the ball in a tackle, and a 2nd/5 who shouldn’t be on the park, but you have to remember its an 80 minute game, and have a good look at how you guys just repeatedly fade after 60
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September 13, 2009 10:34am
Leg Break

Patrick S,

I like a good bit of optimism every now and then, but on what planet are the All Blacks travelling in the right direction at the moment?
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September 13, 2009 10:40am
TimG_Oz

“Certain things don’t add up so i’d rather not buy into the official version.”

Do you know how screwed your logic sounds?

It’s like you’re saying “Some minor detail didn’t quite make sense (to me) therefore I’m ignoring the eyewitness acounts of millions over a 5 year period”
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September 13, 2009 10:41am
Banana Llama

I don’t really care if you think my logic is screwed, the point being is i would be labeled no better than a sex offender 😉 talk about warped logic.
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September 13, 2009 10:44am
Patrick Starr

“but on what planet are the All Blacks travelling in the right direction at the moment?”

only by comparison to the No. 1 team in the world

-take into account the absolutely fantastic bok kicking game,
-take into account the mind numbingly dumb handling errors in the AB’s

-now take a look at the score line, (and the final few seconds of an overcooked kick that would have changed that)
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September 13, 2009 11:01am
TimG_Oz

“I don’t really care if you think my logic is screwed, the point being is i would be labeled no better than a sex offender 😉 talk about warped logic.”

Not sure about that as I don’t know who is doing the comparison. I couldn’t make the comparison between someone committing sex crimes to someone who uses screwed logic about historical events (e.g. the holocaust).

The best comparisons I could come up with:
– It’s illogical to use screwed logic on it’s own. Unless that you use the logic because you are skewed by racial hatred, therefore you could be compared to racists
– Some people use screwed logic that blames victims for the crimes committed against them (i.e. the people who suggest Rape victims “ask for it”). Your screwed logic would probably be similar to the screwed logic of people that make such claims.
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September 13, 2009 11:11am

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