General Debate 10 September 2009

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Michaels

Off to get married today.
See ya Sunday.
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September 10, 2009 8:02am
Redbaiter

Stephen Joyce has to go. This unelected tool of the Weliington bureaucracy is a threat to individual freedom and not any kind of person that should be in government in a western democracy.

How sad that the National party is now apparently in the thrall of such a gormless idiot, and its traditions of respect for the individual and an understanding of the need to limit government power has, under the influence of such oily ignorant statists like Joyce, given way to cowardly supplication to empire building Wellington bureaucrats.
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September 10, 2009 8:04am
toad

Is that just because he won’t let you send textes when you’re driving ‘baiter, or do you have other reasons?
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September 10, 2009 8:07am
getstaffed

Apropo of nothing …

The definition of middle age: When ones broad mind and narrow waist start to trade places 🙂
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September 10, 2009 8:10am
pentwig

Whaleoil has a Wall Street Journal editorial about NZ’s green image.

A must read!!
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September 10, 2009 8:11am
gazzmaniac

Redbaiter –
I might not agree with Joyce’s idea for banning cellphones as there is little to no research to back it up, however if he can get the Kapiti Expressway built then he is all good in my book.
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September 10, 2009 8:16am
Redbaiter

“do you have other reasons?”

I’m talking about his statements as reported by the Herald on changes to drink driving laws. (example – “So we have to get that point across much more aggressively and that’s a challenge for me.”)

The National Party has also floated the idea of Police powers being extended in the most grossly offensive way.

Led by ignorant dunderheads like Joyce, they are the total opposite of what their traditional principles say they should be.
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September 10, 2009 8:16am
Auberon

Morning, Trevor Mallard, disputes resolultion expert here. Beaten the wife? Driven drunk? Dodged your taxes? I’m now offering confidential briefings to all New Zealanders with a conscience. Come on New Zealand, together we can make these little problems disappear.
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September 10, 2009 8:18am
big bruv

Red

You have no stronger supporter here than me, however, I fully support any move by Crusher Collins to give the boys in blue more powers.

If in any way it helps speed up our judicial system and hits the criminal scum hard then I fail to see how you could be against it.
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September 10, 2009 8:22am
CraigM

“I fully support any move by Crusher Collins to give the boys in blue more powers.”

“The National Party has also floated the idea of Police powers being extended in the most grossly offensive way. ”

I think you are off base on this one guys. Listening to Collins last night she stated pretty clearly that this was a Police HQ intiative that she has nothing to do with and has not even had a briefing on the matter.

She also layed into Cosgrove over his comments about closing Police stations, pointing out that it was Labour who had closed 37 or so and that the review she has just received was started by labour more than 12 months ago.

Then she had a crack at the issue around arms training for cops. I disagree with her here, but I thought she sounded like a breath of fresh air. She knows her portfilio, she knows who is doing what, when, how and why and she gives straight answers to direct questions.

I wonder how long it will take for her to change into a politician?

At the moment, IMHO, she is good value.
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September 10, 2009 8:31am
joe90

DPF, if this is a problem please delete.

http://cyfswatch.org/?p=308
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September 10, 2009 8:31am
Redbaiter

“If in any way it helps speed up our judicial system and hits the criminal scum hard then I fail to see how you could be against it.”

Bruv, the laws are the way they are because of a traditional belief that underpins all western justice systems, and sets us apart from the barbarians, and that is that any accused is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

NZ’s moral breakdown and descent into a morass of violence and crime is not something that can be fixed by laws. The restoration of a strong moral code in individuals is what will change things. Increasing police powers is just knee jerk Nazi mentality ignorance and a refusal to face up to the main problem.

Joining forces with the barbarians will not get us anywhere.
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September 10, 2009 8:31am
siobhan

Happy days – I can finally cut off the bloody great branch that threatens to blow through my kitchen window during every storm we get. Without spending thousands of dollars and months trying to negotiate my way though regulatory red tape.

Bravo.

PS For my conspiracy theory of the day – I suspect that it may have been an unhappy tree hugger that tried fire bombing John Keys office last night.
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September 10, 2009 8:37am
Cerium

“The restoration of a strong moral code in individuals is what will change things.”

Any suggestions on how?
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September 10, 2009 8:39am
Redbaiter

“Any suggestions on how?”

Taking the megaphone from such as you would be a good start.
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September 10, 2009 8:43am
Cerium

I thought you might have some suggestions RB. But judging by your comments on the next topic I doubt you are one to promote morals.
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September 10, 2009 8:56am
philu

this is very funny..!

and raises the question..

do pollies/lobbyists in wellington also do this stuff..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/soi-am-getting-into-spanking-heramerican-politician-caught-on-tapetalking-about-having-sex-with-lobbyists/

“. A California assemblyman is in some hot water after having a hot conversation picked up by a hot mic before a recent hearing.

But he’s not talking about sex with just anybody —

– this is hot, steamy sex with lobbyists..!

“So, I am getting into spanking her,” says the Orange County Republican.

“I like spanking her.

She goes, ‘I know you like spanking me.’

I said, ‘Yeah!

Because you’re such a bad girl!’”

The lobbyists reportedly represent utility companies.

Duvall is vice chairman of the Utilities and Commerce Committee.

Bad assemblyman!..”

(update:..in breaking news..the spanking-polly has resigned…

and get this..!

he is a ‘family-values’ republican..

who was recently given an award by some rightwing ‘families’ pressure-group..

for his services to ‘family-values’..

brilliant..!..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 10, 2009 9:04am
Jack5

New topic to keep up Gazzmaniac’s blood pressure.

NZ Herald writer suggests Government make deposits guarantee scheme permanent.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10596278

Bit like the old Government-guaranteed savings bank deposits.

Anyone know anything about Gareth Hoole, the writer?
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September 10, 2009 9:20am
F E Smith

Red, your 8.31 is spot on. I have real reservations about the Police proposal. I already have to deal with police officers who ‘persuade’ people to sign ‘guilty plea’ chits so the arrested person can get bail. Then when you turn up at Court the cops think they have a done deal and a guaranteed conviction. Right now I can fix that by advising the defendant of their right to plead not guilty if they wish. What happens if they are arrested, charged, convicted and fined by an officer within a few minutes and when the defendant wishes to dispute the conviction they are told that because they pleaded guilty they can’t!?!

I would have no problem with the proposal if it resulted in an infringement offence notice only. Right now it seems (although I might have missed something with it) that the Police are proposing that they be judge and jury with the right to hand out summary convictions, which go on your criminal record.

This form of ‘on the spot’ fine is used in the UK and the magistrates courts are now vastly underworked because the Police are handing out so many of them. The difference between that scheme and this one appears to be that the UK one is simply a ticket and nothing more.

Of course, over there they are able to give official cautions and they charge people a lot less, as well. As Dame Margaret Bazeley’s Legal Aid report said, the amount of criminal offence charges has increased significantly in recent years with the growth in the number of police officers. Funny, that.
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September 10, 2009 9:28am
pentwig

Phoolu

….Yaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnnn……..
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September 10, 2009 9:28am
philu

spanking lady lobbyists dosen’t ‘do it’ for you..eh pentwig..?

but ..sleep’..?..

surely just the noise would keep you awake..?

phil9whoar.co.nz)
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September 10, 2009 9:52am
kaya

Jack5 – I’m still waiting for someone to explain why taxpayers should be guaranteeing private money at all? (They have to stop referring to it as Government guarantee, it isn’t).
Re your debate with Gazz about a Chinese company buying into Crafar, I haven’t read the story in detail but it certainly makes my alarm bells ring. Discussed similar with a friend a few months back with Fonterra’s proposal to list. I believe that would be the thin end of the wedge, within 50 years a substantial chunk of NZ land would be in overseas ownership, backdoor invasion. Not xenophobic, I just think NZ needs to retain ownership of the land here.
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September 10, 2009 10:05am
KiwiGreg

“Re your debate with Gazz about a Chinese company buying into Crafar”

I wouldn’t get too excited about that, 5 minutes on the internet would give you enough background on Jin Hui, May Wang and “UBNZ” to know this isnt real.

On the broader issue, what’s your problem? The land isnt going anywhere whoever owns it, milk doesnt travel unprocessed and Fonterra is seemingly wedded to a “powder strategy” which doesnt look (New Zealand) value maximising to me.
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September 10, 2009 10:27am
kaya

KiwiGreg – I understand the principals of what you say but I feel uncomfortable living somewhere owned by someone else. Bit like renting my house instead of owning it, I never felt secure when renting even though I had good landlords. Simplistic, but that’s how I feel.
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September 10, 2009 10:47am
kaya

siobhan –

“Happy days – I can finally cut off the bloody great branch that threatens to blow through my kitchen window during every storm we get.”

You haven’t been waiting for permission have you??? What’s that Nike slogan? “Just do it!”
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September 10, 2009 10:53am
mattyroo

Talking about dunderheads…

That fuckin idiot Bollard is not raising the OCR now, or for at least 12 more months. Means more rampant property speculation by the economically illiterate, and a helluva bust when the boomers all want to sell their investment properties to fund their retirements.

And businesses are fucked because they can’t access capital. What the fuck do we do with this country? Everybody is after the fast buck (property) and nobody wants to work.

Bang head against wall.
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September 10, 2009 11:18am
Chthoniid

@Jack5

New topic to keep up Gazzmaniac’s blood pressure.

NZ Herald writer suggests Government make deposits guarantee scheme permanent.

Dumb idea. One of the best ways to generate bank failures is deposit insurance/government guarantees. That’s a lot of why the S&L crisis hit the US in the 1980s.

We have deposit guarantees now only as a response to panicky money flows in the wake of the GFC. It should come off as soon as possible. Banking regulations in NZ are actually pretty sound and far removed from the weirdness of the US- one factor being mandatory diversification of lending portfolios in NZ. It’s a better system.
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September 10, 2009 11:48am
toad

dad4justice’s 4 month suspension here finished yesterday, but we haven’t seen him commenting yet.

Wonder what he did last night to celebrate?
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September 10, 2009 12:01pm
Jack5

Re Kiwigreg at 10.27

I think benefits of foreign ownership vary with the type of foreign investment. One beneficial type that helps the recipient nation brings new facilities or new technology, a microchip foundry, a new gasfield, a new industry. Another is in the international service industries such as insurance and banking, though in NZ’s case many people and probably the Reserve Bank would feel more comfortable if a couple of our leading banks were home owned. Even minority foreign stakes may be acceptable of our ports and airports. But what we are discussing is foreign ownership of core strategic assets, such as rare earths in China’s case (see yesterday’s general debate string), and, some of us believe, prime grassland and horticulture land in NZ.

Kiwigreg and Gazzmaniac’s position on foreign ownership of strategic assets varies sharply from that of several economically successful nations, including Singapore , Japan, China, and Germany (as moves for changed ownership of GM’s Opel shows). Who is right? Well the sovereign funds of Singapore, Malaysia and China have been snapping up ownership of key Western assets. There isn’t much flowing the other way from NZ.

Regardless, Kiwigreg and Gazzmaniac’s position on foreign ownership will always be theoretical. NZers are hostile to large scale overseas ownership of NZ land and foreign ownership (as opposed to leasing) of fishing quota.
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September 10, 2009 12:02pm
mattyroo

Chthoniid Says:

“Dumb idea. One of the best ways to generate bank failures is deposit insurance/government guarantees. That’s a lot of why the S&L crisis hit the US in the 1980s.”

Dead right! The other big problem we have with NZ banks is that they all have (except for HSBC, as far as I’m aware) loan to deposit ratios greater than 1. Effectively means they are printing money themselves.

The primary reason Norther Rock in the UK went tits-up was because they had an LDR of >300%, which is an extreme example.
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September 10, 2009 12:25pm
village idiot

Toad. You are inflaming the matter.
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September 10, 2009 12:32pm
MT_Tinman

big bruv (4489) Vote: Add rating 6 Subtract rating 1 Says:
September 10th, 2009 at 8:22 am

Red

You have no stronger supporter here than me, however, I fully support any move by Crusher Collins to give the boys in blue more powers.

If in any way it helps speed up our judicial system and hits the criminal scum hard then I fail to see how you could be against it.

What terrifies me here is that the writer is one of the more informed members of this forum.

For the record I object to the current police state, strengthening it would be catastrophic.
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September 10, 2009 1:51pm
NeutralObserver

On another topic altogether I thought it a bit sad this NZHerald article did not get more coverage http://www.nzherald.co.nz/small-business/news/article.cfm?c_id=85&objectid=10596199 in that it is actually something positive about the NZ public service and is of relevance to business.
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September 10, 2009 2:09pm
Patrick Starr

Toad says;
“dad4justice’s 4 month suspension here finished yesterday, but we haven’t seen him commenting yet. Wonder what he did last night to celebrate?”

If that comment is not worth the same demerits as handed out on the next thread I dont know what is
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September 10, 2009 5:13pm
stigotracy

Village idiot is greenfly and poor old d4j gets it from big blouse and toady, strange chaps a righty and lefty.
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September 10, 2009 5:21pm
Swampy

Seeing as government minister Gerry Brownlee announced a $4 million settlement today in a dispute between Timberlands and four South Island West Coast sawmills, in the interests of public transparency, I would like Gerry Brownlee to make a statement that his South Island West Coast sawmilling extended family receives no financial benefit from this agreement.
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September 10, 2009 7:09pm
MikeNZ

FE Smith
It might matter what offenses they could do, personally I’ve had too many chats over pints with crown law people over the past decade to have the faith in the NZPolice to let this one through without a fight.
At least with the present system people have a change with your advice.
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September 10, 2009 8:58pm
Tauhei Notts

Pentwig at 8.11 a.m.
Could you please give us a link to that article in the Wall Street Journal.
I am always fascinated by foreign comments on our country. Possibly it is because they appear warts and all without that dreadful left wing bias that contaminates almost all of our country’s journalists.
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September 10, 2009 9:34pm
Komata

Toad

Unnecessary- a cheap shot (and I suspect you know it).

In case you hadn’t read it in yesterday’s (9 September 2009) NZ Herald, D4J has been ‘putting his money where his mouth is’and was helping with care for the children of the ‘Bodies under the house’ family.

As you are a ‘regular’ here I have no doubt that you read the post yesterday about D4J’s involvement, yet despite that you couldn’t resist could you?

Compassion? Understanding? Even approval for what he is doing with a family that has children and suffering – especially as you are very vocal about caring for ‘all’ living things’?

No, none of these – just a cheap, totally unecessary attempt to score a point – and you have, you certainly have!

As I said, a cheap shot – I thought better of you!
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September 10, 2009 9:40pm
nickb

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=10596459

Oh FFS, greedy pricks that sunk all their cash into finance companies for an extra 1% than a bank would offer. Fair enough to want to prosecute some of the fraudulent weasels running these firms, but to expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for another talkfest commission is not on.
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September 10, 2009 10:34pm
pentwig

Tauhei Notts

http://whaleoil.gotcha.co.nz/2009/09/09/cutting-our-heart-out-on-the-green-altar/

Sorry Tauhei, haven’t figured out how to do the direct link yet.

Pentwig
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September 11, 2009 4:36am
pentwig

Good grief it did work!!
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September 11, 2009 4:36am
big bruv

Komata

You thought better of Toad?

Why on earth would you do that?, Toad seeks to knock down anybody who does not blindly accept the Green vision, he and the rest of his communist pals want to control your life.

He rightly deserves every single ounce of scorn you can muster.
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September 11, 2009 5:27am

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