General Debate 6 August 2009

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philu

an interesting .. (ideology-free) .. read..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/ten-mysteries-of-you/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 8:57am
MyNameIsJack

Does anyone know if this scam is also running in NZ? I haven’t had time to check it out, but if it is, I will be making a complaint to the Commerce Commission.

If I see one more advert citing the immune boosting qualities of a potion, supplement, tea, leaf or berry and how people need to smear it on, drink it or eat it in order to prevent themselves getting swine flu, I will run shrieking through the streets.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6732366.ece
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August 6, 2009 9:02am
Cerium

A useful analysis of S59 by Jim Evans:

“It is possible that the courts might apply a dominant purpose approach to section 59, as they sometimes do in other similar situations involving mixed purposes. They might say that Parliament must have intended that the defence ceases to apply only when correction was the dominant purpose. That would mean that if prevention was the dominant purpose a defence would still be available.

I don’t think that can be guaranteed. This is not clear legislation. In creating this law, Parliament abandoned its constitutional responsibility to say with clarity just which conduct is criminal. The section results from a political fudge. Whatever other views one takes about the topic of smacking, that much at least ought to be kept clear.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10588870&pnum=0
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August 6, 2009 9:03am
Auberon

What was the “very important” meeting Phil Goff said on TV3 this morning Chris Carter needed to attend in Madrid (with his partner Peter Kaiser in tow), on Prime Minister Helen Clark’s behalf?

It was the grandly titled Alliance of Civilization, which despite its important sounding name is actually a three-year-old United Nations talk fest initiated by Spain and Turkey “to explore the roots of polarization between societies and cultures today.”

Oh yeah, that was a vital one Phil, not of course in the national interest, no, but for nailing down all the steps necessary for Helen Clark’s subsequent job.

Makes me sick.
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August 6, 2009 9:09am
Brian Smaller

MNIJ – good opinion piece. There are already these types of magic potions being sold here. Every supermarket and half the pharmacies stock them.
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August 6, 2009 9:13am
Glutaemus Maximus

Alliance of Civilation, sounds a bit Greek to me. The Spartans were famous for it!

Perhaps Lord Mandelbum of Rumba went with his boyfriend as well?

Sounds like a Gay Fest.
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August 6, 2009 9:13am
Brian Smaller

I have noticed that previous Labour ministers who resided in Wellington have been conspicuous by their absence of comments on the Ministerial home funding brouhaha. When are the MSM going to publish ALL the housing expenses generated by every Minister in the previosu government. The saps. If Lockwood hadn’t released the information a few weeks back this would have never been news. The MSM couldn’t find a scoop in an icecream shop.
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August 6, 2009 9:16am
jcuknz

If the rules are changed to remove travel priveleges from Mr Field then he is suffering a double penalty with whatever the Court imposes on him. Apart from what he has been convicted on he served his time in one of the most difficult jobs in the country and should get the reward. Same as Sir Roger, Helen Clark, Jim Bolger and the rest. The ‘politics of envy’ are rampant at the moment.
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August 6, 2009 9:18am
Cerium

Last night I was told to f off again – this time for complimenting what I thought was a good post.

Please do not detract from the quality of my posts by commenting favourably upon them. Unless you have something unpleasant to say, kindly fuck off.

(incidentally, that first -ve karma was from me.)

I over-reacted a bit, I’ll make an effort to not go there. The previous night I was told:

it’s because its a blog for poltical like minds. If you want to share your views the no minds go somewhere else

There appears to be a core here who seem to think this is “their” territory to protect, and try to push off anyone they dislike or disagree with. In some (many?) cases it works, Kiwiblog has a bit of a reputation as a mongrel blog. There are plenty of good things about Kiwiblog, but there seems to be a nasty undercurrent. Some seem proud of their abuse and pat each other on the karma for it.

Is it generally accepted as just the way things are here? Yeah, I’ll likely get pinged again for questioning the quality of “debate”. But whose blog is this? Are diverse views and discussion welcome or not?

Would davinci or Patrick care to comment?
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August 6, 2009 9:20am
nickb

When are the Nats going to introduce VSM?
Please take note JK
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August 6, 2009 9:24am
Auberon

I like you Cerium. I occasionally think you’re a socialist troll, but I’m confident that’s just your natural willingness to approach things objectively shining through! 😉

Don’t let the nutters get you down.
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August 6, 2009 9:25am
philu

smaller..the greens were the first to set this expenses-ball rolling..

..it may well bite them too..eventually..but that’s another story..

..and yes..!..labour and national are as bad as each other..

..and if key thinks this narrow-focussed inquiry he has announced will be ‘enough’..?

..a bit more pressure/time will change his mind on that..

..nothing less than a total airing/clean-out of all the ‘perks’..

..will suffice..really..

.(.with carter providing a strong opening to chapter two..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 9:30am
nickb

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2725432/Convicted-Field-still-allowed-parliamentary-perks

Disgusting
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August 6, 2009 9:30am
nickb

Phil at the same time can we have a clean out of your perks?
This is an issue for those disgusted at wanton waste of the taxpayers money, and as this waste extends to paying able bodied people like you to sit on your arse all day, your opinion is worth fuck all
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August 6, 2009 9:32am
3-coil

Brian Smaller (9.16am): it’s not only the Ministers in the last Labour gov that the MSM are neglecting to scrutinize – Phil Goff still currently rents out the Wellington residence he owns, while he has moved into a tax-payer funded house. But of course that’s okay (no, not because he’s Labour you cynics) because his property is “currently tenanted, and I now plan to sell it”.

Where is the media scrutiny of Labour leader Phil Goff’s current “rort”, which (tax-payer funded) Labour MP is he renting his residence to…etc etc? The double standards and obvious traditional anti-National bias of the MSM are part of why the antique-media are becoming increasingly irrelevant and unable to be trusted.
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August 6, 2009 9:34am
Adolf Fiinkensein

I’m not sure what the fuss is over Philip Field’s travel entitlements. He won’t need to book Air New Zealand to travel from his cell to the exercise yard.

jcuknz

It’s likely he has already enjoyed his reward many times over by way of kickbacks and ‘gifts’ of many hundreds of thousands of dollars. What he needs to do is mount a campaign for public sympathy on the grounds that none of it was for personal gain because he sent all the money off to the Labour Party.

Now if he just would do that, I’d be very happy for him to fly with his wife, first class, at taxpayer cost, to Samoa and back, every year until he dies.
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August 6, 2009 9:36am
Ryan Sproull

Cerium,

The noise is the price you pay for the occasional good conversation. I find the best bet is to ignore the personal insults in comments and reply only to the substance, and if there’s no substance, ignore the whole comment. If you feel angry due to the insults, hold off replying for a while. If you repay disrespect with respect, the majority of habitually insulting people will start to respond in kind, and those who don’t are just a pill you have to swallow – in the blog and in real life. It’s helpful to remember that no matter how people act, they always have reasons for it, and even if you can never know the full story of their life, it is true that if you did know everything about them, you would understand their behaviour. And a few random guidelines…

1. Be eager for the opportunity to admit you were wrong at the earliest opportunity.
2. Apologise at the earliest opportunity if you fail to keep to your own standards.
3. Assume that misunderstanding is at the heart of any disagreement: ask questions rather than make assertions.
4. Nothing anyone on the internet says is ever worth getting actually angry about.
5. Always try to imagine agreeing with someone and ask questions from that perspective about things that seem to be inconsistent.
6. Be especially wary of making subtle insults in the guise of politeness – it’s an easy trap to fall into; is no better than being outright abusive; and taints politeness, which is a wonderful thing.

I’m thinking of myself in that final point, not accusing you of anything.
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August 6, 2009 9:39am
philu

the field-factor could well be what will give key..(who dosen’t need the money..)..the political will/reason to end that posthumous-political careers holiday-perks..

field may well be out of the slammer..if he goes at all..before the next election..

..so we could have telly-news..of field at the airport..

..waving goodbye..with a big smile on his face..

..as he heads off for his (bi-monthly?) o.s jaunts..

..eh..?

..that and the indignant-entitlement of douglas..

..could/should..just about do it..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 9:42am
Herman Poole

Cerium,

Do you have a depressive mental illness? Are you in therapy?
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August 6, 2009 9:50am
Simon

If California State legalizes cannabis then NZ should follow suit. It could be a valuable export earner and create thousands of new jobs.
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August 6, 2009 9:53am
philu

herman..are you bryan spondre..?

‘herman poole’..human pool..

..very dry..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 9:55am
Cerium

No Herman, never have, I think I’m more positive than most. Why do you ask? Is it not normal to stand up to what you think is bullying shite?
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August 6, 2009 9:55am
Simon

Philu is personally attacked all the time. He operates within the system a system that National maintains. Most people here voted National. Personal attacks directed against Philu are no doubt a form of self abuse.
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August 6, 2009 9:57am
3-coil

philu (9:42am) – yes, your fantasy of Taito P Field waving goodbye as he departs on another overseas jaunt, just before the next election will be a timely reminder to the voters…of the smiling face of another corrupt Minister from Clark’s disgraced 5th Labour Government, who the voters of NZ sensibly voted out at the last election.
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August 6, 2009 10:00am
Herman Poole

This is a grown-up blog Cerium. All the things that might hurt small children, like “Socialists are thieving scum” and “Helen Clark was our most corrupt PM ever” aren’t removed like they are on those other ‘non-mongrel’ blogs.
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August 6, 2009 10:01am
philu

really..!..3 coil..!..that’s how ya reckon they’ll see it..eh..?

..how about ‘wodger’..?

..how will they view his gorging at the trough..?

and..

..the view from dipton..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/the-english-viewfrom-diptonfrom-his-front-porchhe-can-see-perk-land/

..did you know he has a new nickname down there..?

“hands in the till..bill”

whoar..!

..eh..?.

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 10:06am
Cerium

“This is a grown-up blog”

Ok, why don’t we act more like grown-ups then?
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August 6, 2009 10:34am
Auberon

Don’t engage Cerium, the hole only gets deeper. The ones who count know that you’ve brought many valuable points of view to this site.
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August 6, 2009 10:43am
Herman Poole

Kiwiblog has a bit of a reputation as a mongrel blog.

No it doesn’t. Irish Bill and co say it does and don’t allow any other opinions on their sites. So at plenty of other blogs, a small handful of people contrive to promote the ‘kiwiblog sewer’ theme.

In reality, Kiwiblog is NZ’s no 1 blog because it has more informed commentary than other media outlets and better debate amongst commentators. After reading NRT, The Standard, Tumeke, et al, it feels like the average IQ jumps 20 points when coming here (Philu excepted), this is because the people who are smarter than the blogs owner are allowed to post. Hence it is NZ’s no 1 blog.

If you are offended by what you read here, why don’t you just stick to the Standard? If you actually prefer Kiwiblog try to figure out why before cooking goose for dinner.
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August 6, 2009 10:50am
Chuck Bird

I just heard on the radio that someone recommended that the provocation defence be allowed for women only. It will be done of course under a different name – self defence.

The self defence for women will be allowed to take place some time after the alleged attack like in the case of Gaye Oakes or the PI woman who killed her husband when he told her he was going to leave her for another woman.

I hope that there will be a call for public submissions before there is any law change.
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August 6, 2009 10:57am
Herman Poole

you’ve brought many valuable points of view to this site

Whilst looking down his nose and making insulting insinuations about everybody else here.

In my view. He posts boring, pointless waffle and I really don’t know why he bothers posting.
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August 6, 2009 10:59am
TimG_Oz

I got my Postal vote for the referendum here in Oz this week – I was surprised because I thought only NZ residents were getting the vote.

DPF – it might be interesting to see the number of overseas votes received, and what the % Yes or No will be. If the greens traditionally poll strongly from specials, will the Yes vote also poll strongly?
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August 6, 2009 11:08am
Cerium

A lot of what happens here is good, it can be very good. I think it could be better. I suspect DPF thinks it could be better, wants it to be better – hence the moderation experiment.

Herman, you have a right to not like what I post. Does that mean I shouldn’t be allowed to post? I don’t like or agree with what people post sometimes. So what? That’s debate.

It seems that if some people got their way anyone who they disagreed with or they took a dislike to would get sick of the abuse and leave. Wouldn’t it become a bit boring and pointless here then?
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August 6, 2009 11:12am
Madeleine

I hope everyone has seen the decisive spanking Emeritus Professor of Law Jim Evans gave John Roughan in the Herald today for his deception on the smacking referenda? Linked to here.
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August 6, 2009 11:25am
MyNameIsJack

No, I didn’t see it, but will read in a moment.

Interesting letter in today’s The Press from a priest claiming that the NT gives parents authority to smack.

Who would have thought it? Parenting advice from a man who was murdered by his own father because of things other people did.
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August 6, 2009 11:28am
Cerium

Madeleine, I think it’s more interesting for his analysis of S59.
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August 6, 2009 11:31am
sbk

Simon (126) 0 8 Says:

August 6th, 2009 at 9:53 am
If California State legalizes cannabis then NZ should follow suit. It could be a valuable export earner and create thousands of new jobs.

…”and create thousands of new jobs.”..yep just what the country needs, more Mental health professionals.
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August 6, 2009 11:32am
Banana Llama

Mongrel blog?

I guess we are all Barbarians banging at the city gates then.
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August 6, 2009 11:32am
Herman Poole

Herman, you have a right to not like what I post. Does that mean I shouldn’t be allowed to post? I don’t like or agree with what people post sometimes. So what? That’s debate.

You don’t agree with other people, so you told us.
I don’t agree with you, so I told you.

This is why I don’t like your posts. You’re thick.

If people don’t like it here, they’ll go elsewhere. At the moment DPF is getting 100-200+ comments on most of his posts. The Standard gets half a dozen people congratulating each other on their moral superiority. Therefore I think more people than not are comfortable with the levels of ‘abuse’.
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August 6, 2009 11:36am
Herman Poole

Cerium.

I don’t have a problem with people being angry. It is a legitimate emotional response.

Do you have a problem with workers striking and waving placards?

Do you have a problem with people gathering at parliament and telling MPs what they think?

Do you have a problem with Hikois protesting about other peoples opinions?

IMO all these things are more abusive than Kiwiblog comments.
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August 6, 2009 11:42am
nickb

DPF, are you related to former Wakato law dean John Farrar?

[DPF: No. Apart from my parents, brother and niece I am not related to any other Farrars in the world]
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August 6, 2009 11:44am
Herman Poole

I suspect DPF thinks it could be better, wants it to be better – hence the moderation experiment.

I think DPF knows why his blog has been successful, because he has stuck by democratic values.

I think DPF knows criticism of his blog comes from others running less successful blogs.

I also think he needs to be pragmatic at a certain point and get rid of the obvious pointless trolls such as philu, chronic, geenfly et al.
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August 6, 2009 11:48am
Cerium

Herman, you seem to know a lot about Kiwiblog for someone who has only posted under that username today.

You take a similar angle to some others here, you defend the democratic values but at the same time suggest posters you don’t like should be banned. You suggest I should go somewhere else because you don’t like what I post. The ‘freedom and democracy as long as you agree with me” approach.

IMO all these things are more abusive than Kiwiblog comments.

Have you been on the receiving end here?
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August 6, 2009 11:57am
philu

herman poole/spondre can’t help himself..eh..?

with his ‘advice’..on matters blog..

..hello spondre..!

why are you so gutless..you have to hide behind troll-names..all the time..?

eh..?

very ‘weird’..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 12:09pm
wreck1080

I see measles is making a comeback.

I continue to be amazed by those who staunchly refuse to vaccinate. Maybe those people would like some of the terrible diseases of the past to return?
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August 6, 2009 12:09pm
thedavincimode

Patrick

What do we do about this? Do we just ignore him, tell him to fuck off again, or give it to him straight?
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August 6, 2009 12:14pm
andrei

FYI

Obama Birth Certificate Spotted In Bogus Moon Landing Footage
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August 6, 2009 12:21pm
philu

heh-heh..!..the little pieces of non-ideological common-wisdoms-link i left at the top of this thread..

..has got 20+ thumbs-down..

what stronger evidence this place is a home for the willfully ignorant..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 12:22pm
thedavincimode

herman

Greenflea has gone; can’t quite recall if it was sent to the sin bin or whether it reincarnated.
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August 6, 2009 12:23pm
starboard

..harden up girls…reading the last few posts feels like Ive stumbled into the stranded…everyone’s allowed an opinion..if you dont like it ..fuck off…
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August 6, 2009 12:33pm
Herman Poole

You take a similar angle to some others here, you defend the democratic values but at the same time suggest posters you don’t like should be banned. You suggest I should go somewhere else because you don’t like what I post. The ‘freedom and democracy as long as you agree with me” approach.

You’ve got all the freedom and democracy to come and go as you please. Just as I have to point out that you’re as thick as pigshit.

Have you been on the receiving end here?

IMO if you say something idiotic, it is reasonable for people to call it idiotic.

If you’re on the receiving end, it is likely because other people think you are an idiot.

You probably notice Redbaiter for instance (I assume he would be one of the first you would accuse of abuse), when he doesn’t veer into conspiracy theories, usually gets more positive karma than his opponents. That is because plenty of people agree with what he is saying and how he is saying it.
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August 6, 2009 12:47pm
Herman Poole

Greenflea has gone; can’t quite recall if it was sent to the sin bin or whether it reincarnated.

The name is still around on some other sites I think. As soon as he left he was replaced by chronic and racer unfortunately.
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August 6, 2009 12:53pm
Cerium

…everyone’s allowed an opinion..

Thanks starboard, at least you have answered the original question.

Where is Redbaiter? He hasn’t had an identity crisis after getting a bad Taitz in his mouth has he?
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August 6, 2009 1:13pm
llew

That is because plenty of people agree with what he is saying and how he is saying it.

There’s no shortage of disaffected people with victim mentalities. Of course they agree with him. He’s their king.
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August 6, 2009 1:22pm
Herman Poole

Cerium,

You should check out a recent documentary called ‘Indoctrinate U’ about how polite lefties are to people with differing views in the real world (not just on blogs).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-zz1HwxIjg
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August 6, 2009 1:24pm
llew

Cerium,

You should check out a recent documentary called ‘Indoctrinate U’ about how polite lefties are to people with differing views in the real world (not just on blogs).

So what has that to do with commenters on this blog? “They” do it so “we” can too? Debate the issue Herman, don’t offer diversionary irrelevancies.
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August 6, 2009 1:34pm
starboard

1. Be eager for the opportunity to admit you were wrong at the earliest opportunity.
2. Apologise at the earliest opportunity if you fail to keep to your own standards.
3. Assume that misunderstanding is at the heart of any disagreement: ask questions rather than make assertions.
4. Nothing anyone on the internet says is ever worth getting actually angry about.
5. Always try to imagine agreeing with someone and ask questions from that perspective about things that seem to be inconsistent.
6. Be especially wary of making subtle insults in the guise of politeness – it’s an easy trap to fall into; is no better than being outright abusive; and taints politeness, which is a wonderful thing.

…gag…this is so labour pc twaddle talk…excuse me RS are you a sickly white idealistic hand wringing sandal wearing liberal?…I mean c’mon..” be eager for the opportunity to admit you were wrong at the earliest opportunity” ??? WTF ?
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August 6, 2009 1:35pm
Ryan Sproull

…gag…this is so labour pc twaddle talk…excuse me RS are you a sickly white idealistic hand wringing sandal wearing liberal?…

I am at least some of those things.

I mean c’mon..” be eager for the opportunity to admit you were wrong at the earliest opportunity” ??? WTF ?

It’s a good antidote to the temptation online to refuse to admit you’re wrong when you’ve been called out on something. If you’re looking for opportunities to be corrected, you’re less likely to be a prick who ignores other people’s good points.
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August 6, 2009 1:38pm
Herman Poole

So what has that to do with commenters on this blog? “They” do it so “we” can too? Debate the issue Herman, don’t offer diversionary irrelevancies.

The title of this thread is ‘general debate’ Ilew. I was introducing something that I thought might interest some people. It was not purely to continue previous discussions.
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August 6, 2009 1:44pm
Herman Poole

Ilew,

My take on it is that the issues revealed in it explain some of the frustration classically liberal people might feel towards the various forms of ‘polite’ oppression that carry on in mainstream forums today.
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August 6, 2009 1:48pm
Cerium

Herman, I have heard of that documentary but not seen it, when I get some time….

There are all sorts of ways of “oppressing”, manipulating, trying to force or suppress, across the spectrum. I presume you don’t think lefties just do it politely and righties just do it rudely.

There is quite a right initiated anti health reform movement in the US at the moment.

The curious Republican campaign of 2008 may have galvanized a conservative Southern base — including many who were mostly concerned with the direction Democrats would take the country — but it also repelled others who simply bolted and ran the other way. Whatever legitimate concerns the GOP may historically have represented were suddenly overshadowed by a sense of a resurgent Old South and all the attendant pathologies of festering hate and fear.

I believe Kathleen Parker is regarded as rightish (except from Red’s perspective)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/04/AR2009080402424.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
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August 6, 2009 2:03pm
philu

odds on herman poole is bryan spondre..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 2:40pm
Herman Poole

odds on herman poole is bryan spondre..

How’s the blog Phil?

Any comments since July 11?

Any hits that don’t come from here?
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August 6, 2009 3:14pm
Herman Poole

There are all sorts of ways of “oppressing”, manipulating, trying to force or suppress, across the spectrum. I presume you don’t think lefties just do it politely and righties just do it rudely.

It happens everywhere, I’m sure a lot of slave holders were very polite, whilst their slaves might not have been. But being polite would not make them right.

I think that anger on issues leftists support is more accepted today, while anger on right issues is not.

Not that I think being angry or insulting is the best solution, but there is a point where it is tolerable to me within certain bounds. Being blunt on a blog is within those bounds, it doesn’t bother me being directly criticised online.
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August 6, 2009 3:26pm
racer1

Did National vote for the anti smacking law as well as labour?
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August 6, 2009 3:32pm
Herman Poole

In the terms used by a Professor in the above mentioned documentary, statements about Kiwiblog being ‘mongrel’ or ‘a sewer’ are an attempt to delegitimise the opinions expressed here.
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August 6, 2009 3:32pm
Herman Poole

A speed camera snapped more than 700 motorists in a seven-hour shift on State Highway 1 in Huntly last week.

This is one of those situations where abuse is tolerable to me.

FUCKING THIEVING CNUTS!!!
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August 6, 2009 3:35pm
village idiot

Herman Poole

What an foolish name.
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August 6, 2009 3:42pm
Herman Poole

People in glass houses…
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August 6, 2009 3:45pm
jcuknz

>>>sbk (100) Vote: 3 1 Says:
August 6th, 2009 at 11:32 am
>>Simon (126) 0 8 Says:
If California State legalizes cannabis then NZ should follow suit. <<…”and create thousands of new jobs.”..yep just what the country needs, more Mental health professionals.<<<
You might be right but think of all the police time better spent on 'real' crime.
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August 6, 2009 3:49pm
Cerium

You brought ‘sewer’ into it, Herman, I only mentioned mongrel – and I think there is some mongrel behaviour, I’ve probably dabbled there myself and I don’t think it is good for the blog. I’m not concerned about bluntness and criticism. Most people stir a bit. There is a difference between robustness/openess and bad behaviour. Some of the best debates I have had here have gotten quite passionate and heated at times, but have resulted in better understanding and better knowledge.

Why would criticising some aspects of behaviour on the blog delegitimise the global “opinions”? I think rudeness and abuse delegitimises specific people and opinions much more. And it also diminishes the credibility of the blog as a whole. It seems some don’t give a stuff about that, I get the impression some like the notoriety. But it isn’t their blog.
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August 6, 2009 3:51pm
village idiot

I think I know you Poole!
Have you a brother named Cess and another named Gene?
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August 6, 2009 3:57pm
Cerium

This is one of those situations where abuse is tolerable to me.

FUCKING THIEVING CNUTS!!!

You mean when missile maniacs who thieve innocent people’s lives?

“Southern Waikato police are cracking down hard on bad drivers following a horror two weeks on the region’s roads.

Fifteen people have died on Greater Waikato roads since April 20.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/2385243/Speed-blamed-for-road-toll
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August 6, 2009 4:05pm
Herman Poole

‘speeding drivers’ does not equal ‘bad drivers’

‘speed blamed for road toll’ does not mean ‘speed proven to be cause of road toll’

and ‘speed on corners’ is not the same as ‘speed on straights’
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August 6, 2009 4:24pm
Herman Poole

Village,

Do you have a brother named Iman?
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August 6, 2009 4:30pm
Cerium

If they stopped using radar:
– would average speeds remain the same?
– would roads remain as safe as they are?
– would there be less road deaths?
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August 6, 2009 4:31pm
Herman Poole

You brought ’sewer’ into it

It is a common term on the Standard.

I’m not concerned about bluntness and criticism. Most people stir a bit.

flip flop flip flop

Why would criticising some aspects of behaviour on the blog delegitimise the global “opinions”?

I get called ‘lacking in compassion’ if I state some very rational non-left positions in real life.
This is because they are unable to refute the position, and try to delegitimise the argument by labeling anybody with a certain point of view. Same as ‘criminal poor’ or ‘greedy rich’.

I get the impression some like the notoriety

Thats because you’re a wet pinko.
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August 6, 2009 4:41pm
Herman Poole

If they stopped using radar:
– would average speeds remain the same?
– would roads remain as safe as they are?
– would there be less road deaths?

I’ve got no problem with the radar. But only at spots with an accident history IMO. Or set the damn thing higher.
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August 6, 2009 4:43pm
Cerium

This is because they are unable to refute the position, and try to delegitimise the argument by labeling anybody with a certain point of view

Hilarious. That doesn’t happen here at all does it!

Here the natural reaction seems to be if lefty is perceived, click the right thumb. Must be to do with how our brains cross over.
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August 6, 2009 4:54pm
Herman Poole

Here the natural reaction seems to be if lefty is perceived, click the right thumb. Must be to do with how our brains cross over.

Actually it’s to do with whether or not people agree with you. Have a look at the polls next time you’re surprised by a reaction to a leftist comment.
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August 6, 2009 5:08pm
Herman Poole

Hilarious. That doesn’t happen here at all does it!

Of course it does, it’s just easier than detailing the entire history of socialism’s failures.
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August 6, 2009 5:10pm
Cerium

The Samoans will be lurching to the left soon. Probably literally.
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August 6, 2009 5:11pm
Cerium

I fully agree that socialism on all scales is a failure. I have never been a fan of it.

I’m sure sometimes people click thumbs based on presumption. How many bother to see if the agree with Phil or not? And I suspect me and others at times. Someone down thumbed me for up thumbing them. Thumbs are an indicator of many things. It’s interesting when there are plenty of thumbs around a post but it gets left alone. Some people seem to thing +ve karma rules but there is a lot more to it than that. You can test a lot of ideas with the thumbs.
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August 6, 2009 5:22pm
Patrick Starr

thedavincimode @ 12.14
I had previously asked him/her if it was a leftie thing, or is he just insecure?

– I think its @9.20 comment answers that question. (The hall monitor wants a pity party)
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August 6, 2009 6:00pm
Patrick Starr

The Fempire strikes back!

http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2009/08/06/chris-carter-out-and-about/

“Posted by Chris Carter on August 6th, 2009
There’s been a lot of talk about me not fronting up re MP’s expenses.
I’ve never been reluctant to front up on hard issues; from my sexuality, to declining consent for the Whangamata Marina.
Hey, the Labour Caucus made the decision that no-one comments except Trevor, Whips and the Leadership. I’m loyal and – hard as it’s been to resist persistent baiting from journalists to “stop hiding” – I’ve been a loyal team player and remained silent.
If anyone is really interested to know about why my transport costs as Minister of Education and Ethnic Affairs in 2008 were higher than some other Ministers they can visit my website. There you can see the names of some of the more than 300 schools and ECEs I visited as Minister of Education, and some of the more than 200 events I attended as Minister of Ethnic Affairs. I once went to eight Ethnic festivals in Auckland on one Saturday!
You can also read a selection of my Education newsletters, and my Ethnic Affairs newsletters from that period, to learn about the events.
Journalists were told that last year I went on eight international trips. Shock horror! Of course it’s not much fun visiting a country for two days, with back to back meetings and speeches – especially with flight times sometimes as long as 17 hours!
These same journalists seem to forget that, as Education Minister, part of my job was to help foster the flow of international students – a business currently worth $2.3 billion dollars each year, and our fifth largest export industry! Never let facts stand in the way of a good story, journalists!
Not one cent went into my pocket, my partner’s pocket, or my family trust account.
I stand by my record as an active, and I hope hardworking, Government minister.”

(yeah – just a labour MP the Caucus seems to have placed behind Mallard….. Carter #7, Mallard #14)
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August 6, 2009 6:49pm
getstaffed

Patrick – but will he outline the ‘from/to’ details of his huge taxi expenses?
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August 6, 2009 6:55pm
Patrick Starr

getstaffed, yeah probably not. I think the tone of his post is someone running very scared. “Not one cent went into my pocket, my partner’s pocket, or my family trust account” ………did I miss something and someone suggest he had?
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August 6, 2009 6:59pm
DeepScience

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/health/news/article.cfm?c_id=204&objectid=10589061

But the report of the Commission on the Resident Medical Officer (RMO) Workforce, headed by former state services commissioner Don Hunn, recommends creating a stand-alone agency to employ all of New Zealand’s 2500 RMOs.

—

So basically the health boards are deemed so stuffed they won’t be able to fix the problems themselves >.<
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August 6, 2009 7:05pm
Chthoniid

@Cerium

I’m sure sometimes people click thumbs based on presumption. How many bother to see if the agree with Phil or not? And I suspect me and others at times.

I’m sometimes surprised to see I earn a thumb-down or two, with my photo on the Friday morning general debate. I’m not entirely sure how that could provoke quote that level of ire, but it really doesn’t bother me. FFS, people have shot at me and tried to blow me up in other parts of the world. A thumbs-down doesn’t exactly register on things that aggravate me.

As far as Phil goes, most of the time I don’t read him. I think his importance here (and in his own mind) is vastly over-rated. OTOH, I think it’s important to remember a lot of people read Kiwiblog who say little and click thumbs rarely. Such a core of users are likely to appreciate well argued points over rants, trolling and off-subject diversions. Hence it all depends on what people you are trying to engage.

If you play in the shallow-end with fringe players (like Phil), then you may not derive a lot of satisfaction.
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August 6, 2009 7:28pm
philu

c4 is showing the sth park scientology episode..

i’ve seen it b4..

..but fuck..its’ funny..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 10:15pm
thedavincimode

But therein lies the answer to Delirium’s Delirium Mr spiderythingyname.

You don’t have the insecurity and lack of emotional intelligence that burdens poor old Delirium nor the compulsive desire to feel needed and important. Someone gives your pics the thumbs down – you shake your head, shrug your shoulders and move on. You don’t actually feel the need to respond. And I suppose its a bit naughty to tease him, but really, Nomestradamus was right on the money with the Hall Monitor thing.

But then as to well to well argued points? Don’t know if you were referring to him – I don’t read all of his comments (that would be a full time occupation) but on subjects that are of interest to me, can’t say I’ve seen any that were well argued. More in the nature of a combination of wishful thinking and pseudo intellectual bluster. Perhaps if he thought more about human nature and behaviour rather than trying to patronise and lecture people he might have something more useful to say.

And as for Phil, well its compulsive stuff like Alex in the Herald, only much funnier. Hide like a rhino and brain like a mosquito.
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August 6, 2009 10:35pm
philu

gee clint..you talk about being ‘shot and blown up’..quite a bit..eh..?

..quite the renaissance-man/’adventurer’..?

..eh..?

in yr own mind..?

i musr make a point of down-thumbing you..

..(you might even get a ‘frisson’ of excitement/danger..even conflict..from that..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 10:45pm
philu

“..And as for Phil, well its compulsive stuff like Alex in the Herald, only much funnier..”

mm..!..

not to sure about the benchmark..

but i guess i can live with ‘compulsive stuff’..and ‘funnier’…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 6, 2009 10:52pm
Cerium

More in the nature of a combination of wishful thinking and pseudo intellectual bluster. Perhaps if he thought more about human nature and behaviour rather than trying to patronise and lecture people he might have something more useful to say.

<>
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August 7, 2009 7:11am
Chthoniid

But then as to well to well argued points? Don’t know if you were referring to him…

More of a general observation.

Some people write with some wit and argue points well, and for that reason I will often read their points. I may not agree with them, and I may not bestir myself to click a ‘thumb’, but they get read.

Some people are without humour and select topics that allow them to whine on … and on … and on (e.g. MNIJ and religion). I don’t bother.

So it’s pretty much up to each person to decide if they want to play ‘in the shallow end’ or not.
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August 7, 2009 7:42am
KiwiGreg

@ Deepscience – the national employer ruse is simply the doctors’ union trying to ensure a national award.
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August 7, 2009 7:51am
Ryan Sproull

John Hughes has died of a heart attack.
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August 7, 2009 9:39am
llew

The title of this thread is ‘general debate’ Ilew. I was introducing something that I thought might interest some people. It was not purely to continue previous discussions.

Point – I’ll invoke to Ryan’s article # 1.
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August 7, 2009 9:56am
Ryan Sproull

Oh, great. “Admitting you were wrong: the Ryan Manoeuvre”.
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August 7, 2009 9:57am
llew

I draw the line at hand wringing though.
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August 7, 2009 11:26am

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