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August 3, 2009 7:53am by David Farrar

General Debate 3 August 2009

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General Debate

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SBY

Mawm, I said earlier in this thread that I wouldn’t engage the conspiracy theorists on the Obama thing, but I just can’t help myself. Here’s some facts:

– Hawaii doesn’t issue original birth certificates. It issues what are called “certifications of live birth”. The original is held by the authorities.
– Obama made his copy public in 2007. Copies of it are available on various websites, but I’ve put a picture of it at http://imperatorfish.blogspot.com/2009/08/conspiracy-watch-birthers.html
– The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health has verified that the state has the original birth certificate on record
– Independent researchers have viewed the original and confirmed it is the same as the copy released by Obama.

Case closed. Honestly, how much evidence will ever be enough?
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August 3, 2009 8:18pm
Hurf Durf

How many phools does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

28: 15 to screw in the bulb and 42 to swit-oh wait, hang on.
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August 3, 2009 8:26pm
Redbaiter

“Mawm, I said earlier in this thread that I wouldn’t engage the conspiracy theorists on the Obama thing, but I just can’t help myself.”

In other words, “I’m a slack jawed moron completely incapable of standing by what I say.” Or, “I had no argument back then, but I’ve looked it up since and now feel that I’m really well informed”.

“Here’s some facts”

Not one of these claims is a “fact”. They are assertions, and every single one is wrong. (and its “here are some facts” you poor under-educated well indoctrinated illiterate commie)

“Hawaii doesn’t issue original birth certificates.”

It issues birth certificates, and it issues copies of original birth certificates. Here’s one, for a lady who was born a few days before Obama claims to have been born.

http://www.wnd.com/images/090728birthcert.gif

“Obama made his copy public in 2007.”

He has not made it public. He has merely posted an image on the web, and once again, this document does not verify that the holder (Obama) was born in Hawaii. It only verifies that his birth was registered in Hawaii. NOT THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY BORN THERE. Plenty of people have such COLBs who were not born in Hawaii. (Obama’s sister for example, who was born in Indonesia)

“The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health has verified that the state has the original birth certificate on record”

Dr Fukino did make a statement saying the the DOH held Obama’s “original birth certificate” but has since renegged on that statement and stated that her Dept holds “the original vital records”. She did not state what those records were or how they “verified” Obama was born in Hawaii. She has refused to answer simple questions that her finely parsed statements give rise to. Questions such as “what were those vital records?”

“Independent researchers have viewed the original and confirmed it is the same as the copy released by Obama.”

This is a complete lie. No “independent researchers” have viewed the “original”, and if they had, it of course raises the question as to why would Obama show it to them and not the general public who wants to see it.

SBY should have stuck to his word and not “engaged” (smirk), for all his idiot statements show is that like most who argue from his perspective, he does not have a damn clue what he is talking about, and only feels the need to defend this Chicago thug and gangster because SBY is sympathetic to Obam’s communist political objectives.

SBY regards the law as merely a nuisance and something that can be bent and broken by socialists at will.

Another dangerous and ignorant fool whose ambition is to see freedom destroyed and replaced by suffocating totalitarian socialism, and will guiltlessly promote any lie to those ends.
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August 3, 2009 9:21pm
SBY

Redbaiter, you’re barking mad. Which is why I can’t be bothered “engaging” with you.
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August 3, 2009 9:32pm
philu

what’s the bet hurf is spondre..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 3, 2009 9:42pm
Redbaiter

Just to help those who may be genuinely interested-

There are still many (Mr. Farrar for example) who are confused as to the real issue here. The Obama camp originally issued a COLB (and called it a Birth Certificate) however this document was initially only issued on line as a digital document. Some people claimed this was a fake.

Following the “fake” claims, the Obama camp issued a photograph of a document that had been folded. This was not a digital image but an actual photograph. Again, the document was still only the COLB.

It is this document (in the photograph) that Fact Check and Snopes have “verified” as being genuine. In other words, it compared accurately with the original digital copy.

Neither Snopes, of Fact Check, or anyone of importance in the matter has checked, seen or verified in anyway the documents on file at the Hawaii Dept of Health.

These documents are what is important, not the COLB, and it is these documents that people want released. Obama constantly refuses to do so.

Why???

The above summary is an attempt to break through the web of lies and the smokescreen of confusion that the Obama camp has woven about the issue.

There is more on the digital/ original part of the issue here

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105817

for anyone who is interested, but it is really not important to the core issue. That is- What are Obama’s “vital records” in the Hawaii DOH, and what do they show?
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August 3, 2009 9:45pm
Redbaiter

“Redbaiter, you’re barking mad. Which is why I can’t be bothered “engaging” with you.”

SBY, you have got nothing but worthless assertions (the above is another) and its why you should not ever dare to “engage” with Redbaiter or anyone.
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August 3, 2009 9:50pm
Hurf Durf

I am not Spondre nor do I have anything to do with sponges.

Thanks for playing.
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August 3, 2009 10:03pm
ophiuchus

Reddy.

You failed with the fake certificate yesterday. Please, for the love of God, try to be more careful next time while looking for a more authentic Kenyan certificate.
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August 3, 2009 10:06pm
Redbaiter

“You failed with the fake certificate yesterday.”

I did not. See- Assertions are so so easy.

Anyone can do them, and you’re full of them.

Orly Tait is landing in the UK tomorrow morning to attempt to get the Kenyan Certificate verified by officials there. Your claims about the date of the Republic are worthless smoke screening rubbish.
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August 3, 2009 10:15pm
ophiuchus

Ooooh yayyyyy another debate with his holiness the Redbaiter

“I did not. See- Assertions are so so easy.

Anyone can do them, and you’re full of them. “

Right, and you aren’t. You are so stuck up in your perfect little place you dismiss anyone who dares disagree with you as a snivelling leftist retard, well guess what, Reddy, I’m not one of them.

Kenya declared independence on the 12th December 1963 and on the 12th of December 1964, Kenya became a republic. The day is known as Jamhuri Day (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1450900/Jamhuri-Day).

That means Kenya WAS NOT a republic on the 17th day of February 1964 thus invalidating the certificate. Orly Tait is going to crash and burn miserably.
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August 3, 2009 10:29pm
starboard

philu (5019) Vote: 0 2 Says:

August 3rd, 2009 at 9:42 pm
what’s the bet hurf is spondre..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

..whats the bet whore pulls his pud on the hour..every hour…
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August 3, 2009 10:37pm
Redbaiter

Great to see you attempting some facts.

Trouble is, they’re under challenge on many different levels.

Whereas it suits you to find data that agrees with your political bigotry on this issue, and accept that data as unchallengeable, there are in fact many reasons why it can be questioned.

I suggest you read this thread on FR through to the end, (an objective informed discussion) and after you have, you’ll discover just how daft your certainty on this issue is.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2306640/posts?q=1&;page=1
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August 3, 2009 10:40pm
MyNameIsJack

“If Sarah Palin looked like Golda Meir, would we even be talking about her today?”
— GOP strategist Mike Murphy
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August 3, 2009 10:43pm
ophiuchus

Whereas it suits you to find data that agrees with your political bigotry on this issue

You’re the same as me Redbaiter, you will also find data to suit your needs. FreeRepublic I believe is far from a neutral website: You don’t agree with the moderator, you get booted off. Even Fox News dislikes the site.
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August 3, 2009 10:49pm
RightNow

phlu, how’s that technorati ranking going? have you made it out of the bottom 1%?
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August 3, 2009 10:51pm
Redbaiter

“FreeRepublic I believe is far from a neutral website:”

Obviously you did not read the thread, for the issue is argued objectively and rationally from both points of view.
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August 3, 2009 10:55pm
getstaffed

RightNow – leave him in his comfort zone!
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August 3, 2009 10:56pm
ophiuchus

I admit Redbaiter, the Freeper discussion is definitely more rational than I thought it would be. Still there is just a little more evidence supporting Obama’s case.

For once (regarding FreeRepublic) I’m eating humble pie – for now.
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August 3, 2009 11:16pm
Redbaiter

“For once (regarding FreeRepublic) I’m eating humble pie – for now.”

Thank you for that gracious concession. Such dignity is rare on Kiwiblog.
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August 3, 2009 11:45pm
Haiku Dave

elvis lives, the moon
landing was faked, and barack’s
a kenyan eh red?
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August 4, 2009 12:04am
paradigm

Copyright lobby was mouthing off on one news. Apparently they think the proposed copyright legislation is too weak, and want two educational notices then an immediate termination of an internet account for the third infringement of supposed copyright violation.

They are also upset with a 90 day enforcement time. Apparently they’d rather have people kicked off the internet fast than have due process done.

They also have the movie rental crowd onboard, who are convinced that internet piracy is damaging their industry (as opposed to, say, overpricing of the rentals and a flawed business model). Personally I find the movie rental group’s involvement slightly ironic, considering they were, for a while, a good source for pirates: pay $5 to rent and rip a dvd vs $30 to buy. Indeed if a pirate wanted a full DVD iso rather than a recompressed rip (at lower quality with all the extras removed), they’d still find it cheaper to pay the $5 to rent than the $9.60 to download 8GB over NZ home broadband prices (based on the ~$1.2/GB at telstraclear for 10GB blocks).

According to nationmaster NZ actually ranks very low in terms of video/software piracy, probably due to our crappy internet speed. As such I dont see why we should be introducing a more draconian set of sanctions for piracy than any other western country. Indeed were I in government I’d chuck the whole thing on the backburner and focus on something important like improving our productivity.
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August 4, 2009 12:17am
racer1

Orly Tiatz, Lawyer, Dentist and real estate agent. WTF, sounds more like a professional document forger!
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August 4, 2009 12:41am
Cerium

“To engage the birther fantasists is futile; to dismiss them, reckless”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/02/obama-birthers-us-presidency

However marginal they appear now, they were effectively running the US between 2000 and 2008. It was their birther logic (an oxymoron if ever there was one) that provided the mindset, legwork and frontline troops for the Bush era. Iraq was invaded because it could not prove that it did not have something it truly did not have. “We would say, ‘Iraq should present any anthrax’,” explained UN weapons inspector Hans Blix shortly after the invasion. “While the US and UK were inclined to say, ‘Iraq should present the anthrax.'” Guantánamo Bay is still full of people who were incarcerated because they were not able to prove they were not guilty and whose guilt was to some extent inferred by their incarceration.

The birthers’ claims might be crazy. But so was Whitewater, which ended with Clinton’s impeachment, and the Swift Boat saga helped torpedo John Kerry’s presidential campaign.

It’s not just this pathetic birth certificate crusade that is the problem. It is the method employed. Led by people who think they have a god given right to be lying, deceitful, destructive, to force their own way. So many contradictions in how they live, and in what they say. They keep accusing others of doing what they do themselves.

I don’t want to see this sort of crap get legs in NZ.
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August 4, 2009 6:35am
Cerium

Karl Rove: The Kenyan ‘Birth Certificate’ Is ‘Likely a Forgery’

“Several of the lawyers and activists who are following or pushing this story have grown irritated with Taitz’s incompetence and wild antics. This might be a breaking point.”

http://washingtonindependent.com/53547/karl-rove-the-kenyan-birth-certificate-is-likely-a-forgery
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August 4, 2009 6:44am
SBY

“I don’t want to see this sort of crap get legs in NZ.”

Too late!

http://imperatorfish.blogspot.com/2009/08/mr-key-what-are-you-hiding.html
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August 4, 2009 7:59am
Cerium

Ha, yeah, just like that. Except that some have serious intentions, albeit fraudulent.
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August 4, 2009 8:29am
Chris_C

@ Cerium

Karl Rove said that? Hell, that’s pretty much like Charlie Manson saying we should calm down a bit.
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August 4, 2009 12:31pm
Brian Smaller

See over in Aussie they have busted some Somali (Australians) who were planning suicide attacks. Will be our turn soon enough. Militant Islam declared war on the West, not just the USA and a few European countries, and the last time I looked women here were allowed to walk around uncovered so I suspect we are included in “the West”.
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August 4, 2009 12:45pm

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