General Debate 29 August 2009

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Viking2

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=702&p=23961#p23961

Let’s hope the National Party are monitoring these developments!

Quote:
Support for [Australia’s] Rudd Government has slumped in country areas in the past two months, with experts pointing to the emissions trading scheme (ETS) for Labor’s crashing popularity in the bush.

Senior lecturer in politics at Monash University, Dr Nick Economou, said the dramatic swing back to the Opposition in rural seats would most definitely be as a result of the Government’s climate change and emissions trading policies.

He said rural voters like farmers and miners were very knowledgeable about the impacts of an emissions trading scheme and the shift in polls in recent weeks should send a stark warning to the Government.

–Lucy Knight, Stock & Land News, 28 August 2009
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August 29, 2009 9:57am
Redbaiter

While NZer’s applaud Key’s appearance on Letterman because it will boost tourism, bigots write opinion pieces that are nothing more than outrageously uninformed naked propaganda for Progressivism and attacking Conservatism in the NZ Herald.

Pieces that by their bigotry and ignorance, alienate 40% of the tourists Key is hoping to attract.

From Gallup-

PRINCETON, NJ — Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This represents a slight increase for conservatism in the U.S. since 2008, returning it to a level last seen in 2004. The 21% calling themselves liberal is in line with findings throughout this decade, but is up from the 1990s.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx

Paul Thomas’s gross ignorance and bigotry is on display here-

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10593808&pnum=0

How a newspaper can print this kind of worthless uninformed crap and expect to retain credibility is beyond me. The print media is dying, and that it is always ready to produce such bottom shelf excreta as this is one of the main reasons. wouldn’t you think that they would ask themselves why FOX is such a success?
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August 29, 2009 9:59am
billyborker

Fox is only a “success” because it panders to bottom feeders by providing them non stop tittytainment.

No wonder you are glued to it.
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August 29, 2009 10:16am
Viking2

Cactus on whining sniveling Socialists and Shane Jones, Maoritocrasy and Maori troughing.

The same thing really

http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/
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August 29, 2009 10:18am
Southern Raider

From an article in the Herald today about the massive rise of violence by children between 5 and 10 year old at schools including assaults on teachers.

Assaults by 8-year-olds on teachers and students which led to stand-downs (suspensions for set times)

2000 – 115
2002 – 105
2004 – 175
2006 – 203
2008 – 223

So can the left please explain how banning corporal punishment, the anti-smacking law and other socialist liberalisation is going to make this country a better place when these tear aways reach adulthood. Can also be aligned to the massive rise in youth assaults and crime.
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August 29, 2009 10:24am
billyborker

Pieces that by their bigotry and ignorance, alienate 40% of the tourists Key is hoping to attract.

And in Redsterbaiter’s strange world view, tourists only visit countries according to political demographics. What a load of horseshit!
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August 29, 2009 10:24am
big bruv

The following is the most disgusting piece of pinko crap I have seen in a long time.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2813344/Killer-served-his-time-but-cannot-avoid-repercussions

Steward needs to remember that this low life killed a cop, Richard Lakich should have been put to death nineteen years ago, I am offended that anybody who calls themselves a journalist would write a piece that seeks to elicit sympathy from the public, the same public constable Umbers was trying to protect.
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August 29, 2009 10:25am
billyborker

Southern Raider, I’ll try to answer your question when you post the stats for teacher assaults on students prior to the abolition of “corporal punishment”.

How does replacing one form of violence with another resolve the issue?That’s the trouble with right whingers; you always look for simplistic answers to complex problems.
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August 29, 2009 10:27am
Southern Raider

Also have no time for Debroah Coddington after listening to her on last nights Larry Williams drive time show.

She tried to align the 1.5million kiwis that voted against the anti-smacking law as far right religous fundamentalists and picked up on the languague of Bradford calling it violence against children, beatings etc.

I’m also getting pissed off with Key and co claiming the law is working because there have been no prosecutions. What about the families that have had the “visit” from CYPS and the Police and been investigated. Yes they might not have been prosecuted but would you want to be threatened to have your kids taken away or to be locked up and then have to wait several weeks to be let off?

[DPF: I think the test should be is it a bad law, not is the law working. But having said that I am pleased they are at least looking at new guidelines for CYFS as I agree that is a greater concern for most parents]
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August 29, 2009 10:28am
Cerium

I thought Paul Thomas raised some interesting points. And as soon as I read it I suspected there would be some bigoted ignorant reaction.
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August 29, 2009 10:29am
billyborker

big bruv, be offended all you like, but didn’t you say you were fucking off out of here? Fuck off then.

I thought it was a pretty good article, it didn’t make Lakich out to be anything other than the man he is. It showed the effects of crime continue long after the act. And Umbers’ wife puts you to shame.
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August 29, 2009 10:29am
Cerium

Can Southern Raider please explain how corporal punishment stopping more than 20 years ago would be significant with statistics over the last 9 years?
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August 29, 2009 10:33am
Southern Raider

Cerium the stats provided in the Herald were only for the last nine years,

Find some then that go back further and it will still show the same trend.
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August 29, 2009 10:41am
Southern Raider

Jezz Billy and Cerium the guy killed a cop who was just doing his job.

You lefties have some very warped sense of justice where one family has lost a husband/brother/son/father for life and your crying over some crim that only got 15 years in a hotel and now feels hard done by.
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August 29, 2009 10:45am
Cerium

I can remember respect for authority at school deteriorating in the seventies, before corporal punishment was stopped. Boys were refusing to be caned. Did they stop it because it was ineffective? Or was it part of the changes started in the sixties for youth to be more independent and stand up for their rights more?

It’s easy to find some statistics somewhere that back an argument. That doesn’t mean there is a significant relationship between the two.

I wasn’t crying over a crim.
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August 29, 2009 10:47am
Redbaiter

So called journalists and various left wing politicians (including Barack Obama) teamed up to make an issue of John McCain’s elegibility for President when the fact that he was born in the Panama Canal Zone raised some doubt.

It is a demonstration of how many liars cheats and propagandists for leftism that there are in the journalist profession these days that anyone who similarly questions Barack Obama’s eligibility is deemed insane by the mainstream news media.

Whereas Nixon’s deceit over Watergate was investigated with meticulous intensity and persistence by Woodward and Bernstein, the fact that Obama has by presidential decree sealed all records pertaining to his past, and has blatantly misrepresented a Certificate of Live Birth as an actual Birth Certificate, goes unreported, or worse, is a deceit actually supported by the mainstream media.

The mainstream media, and journalism as a profession, have been totally corrupted by partisan politics. No wonder is it that those employed in it frequently rate lower than used cars salesmen in the credibility stakes. A serious insult to used car salesmen if you ask me, especially given that journalists once rejoiced in the misnomer “watchdogs of democracy”.

Once seen as part of an honourable profession, journalists are too often these days mere cheap and cowardly propagandists for Progressive totalitarianism.
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August 29, 2009 10:54am
philu

did this bit hurt..?..red..?

“..There’s an unmistakable whiff of the Flat Earth Society in the Birthers’ steadfast refusal to be swayed by the evidence to the contrary ..

.. and their inability to produce a skerrick of proof to support their charge of an elaborate – and prescient – deception.

Secondly, there’s the welter of inflammatory rhetoric.

Politics has always involved name-calling and the attribution of bad faith..

.. but where does political rough-and-tumble end .. and black propaganda begin?..”

should we change yr name from ‘red’..to..’black..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 29, 2009 10:59am
Patrick Starr

“I can remember respect for authority at school deteriorating in the seventies, before corporal punishment was stopped. Boys were refusing to be caned. Did they stop it because it was ineffective?”

yep, they stopped caning as the new breed of DPB raised children were starting to come through the school system, many of these same children that had never had a fathers influence in their lives
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August 29, 2009 11:01am
Southern Raider

What school did you go to?

Can’t remember ever having the option to refuse to not be caned or strapped
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August 29, 2009 11:03am
tom hunter

I wonder if papers will die even faster in NZ than in the US?

I say this because whichever ideological side one leans to, there is simply no need to read a half-witted bigot like Thomas.

For example one could have ….raised some interesting points. (I so love the ingrained faux high-mindedness of that phrase) by simply going straight to one of the original sources from which Thomas phoned this article in.

Or you could go to PJ O’Rourke’s acidic take on the argument.

Either way there’s no need to buy or even read the Herald. I wonder when they’ll figure that out?
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August 29, 2009 11:06am
philu

“..Either way there’s no need to buy or even read the Herald…”

all you really need is whoar ..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 29, 2009 11:09am
Patrick Starr

We sometimes used to get the option, a weeks worth of detentions or the cane.
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August 29, 2009 11:12am
billyborker

Southern Raider (1069) Vote: 0 1 Says:

August 29th, 2009 at 11:03 am
What school did you go to?

Can’t remember ever having the option to refuse to not be caned or strapped

I was assaulted by a teacher in Primary School; it wasn’t optional, but my mother certainly made him feel her wrath. It wasn’t a strap. it wasn’t a cane. It was a partial strangulation, meted out to an eight year old for “smirking”. I didn’t even understand the word at 8, but I knew that the attack on me was wrong. I told my teacher (not the one who attacked me) I was going home, and I went.

From that day forth I refused to be cowered by the bullies who claimed wages as teachers.
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August 29, 2009 11:18am
Redbaiter

“Either way there’s no need to buy or even read the Herald. I wonder when they’ll figure that out?’

Too true. The Herald Opinion writers, when they write stuff on American politics, are always merely echoing the garbage of their equally Progressive colleagues in the US. The yellow propagandists of the Washington Post and The New York Times for example.

The Herald could expand its readership by including articles from right wing commenters (it would at least provide some balance) but chooses instead to let politics preside over commercial interests, and to sink further into the quicksand of pseudo-liberalism.

I often wonder why the shareholders do not have more complaints on such obviously poor management and editing.
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August 29, 2009 11:23am
Angus

On FOX viewers:

O’Reilly is beginning to beat Katie Couric’s CBS Evening News – a network broadcast, with ABC next in line.

The O’Reilly Factor – 3,303,000 viewers (876,000) (1,468,000)
Glenn Beck – 3,040,000 viewers (888,000) (1,385,000)
Hannity – 2,592,000 viewers (752,000) (1,158,000)
On The Record w/ Greta Van Susteren—2,104,000 viewers (577,000) (985,000)
Special Report with Bret Baier– 2,067,000 viewers (463,000) (881,000)
Fox Report w/Shep Smith–1,590,000 viewers (454,000) (729,000)

Go the Beckster – he’s not even in a prime-time slot {his show airs at 5pm] The left really need to come up with some new tactics to denigrate anyone who opposes them. It’s becoming all too predictable. First they claimed Beck was stupid, then crazy, now they are trying to censor him – with ratings like that, fat chance.

Why do the left always go on about hate? Because hate fills their own hearts. Click here to read what abuse Michelle Malkin [a conservative woman of Philippine descent] gets:

http://michellemalkin.com/2005/02/08/comments-trolls-and-the-lefts-continued-whore-fixation/
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August 29, 2009 11:24am
Redbaiter

So right Angus- this quote, from a Crusader Rabbit article, sums the left up so perfectly-

‘One of the keys to understanding the left is how they invariably resort to ‘projection.’ By projection, I mean they foist their own shortcomings and failings onto others, then criticize them for acting with such base motivations…’

Originally from a post at Wolf Howling-

http://wolfhowling.blogspot.com/2009/08/projections-thuggery-racism-of-left.html
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August 29, 2009 11:29am
tom hunter

I think the main point that should be taken from those child assault statistics is not to try and prove that a lack of corporal punishment has resulted in an increase in child violence.

What it does prove is that corporal punishment was not the reason, and perhaps not a reason at all, for children being violent at school.

Which of course goes to the heart of one of the main shibboleths of the left – that the actions of those who are powerless are merely reactions to actions of the ruling elites in any given situation!
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August 29, 2009 11:35am
Redbaiter

“First they claimed Beck was stupid, then crazy, now they are trying to censor him”

Same old same old…
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August 29, 2009 11:37am
Kris K

Southern Raider 10:24 am,

From an article in the Herald today about the massive rise of violence by children between 5 and 10 year old at schools including assaults on teachers. …

So can the left please explain how banning corporal punishment, the anti-smacking law and other socialist liberalisation is going to make this country a better place when these tear aways reach adulthood. Can also be aligned to the massive rise in youth assaults and crime.

As most of us already know; the aim of the Bradford Abomination had absolutely nothing to do with reducing genuine child abuse. The real aim of this law change was to achieve exactly what it has; criminalising good parents for raising well disciplined children. Children that will think for themselves, and respect both themselves and others.

After all, the state knows what is best for children. The clear aim is to turn children against their own parents, and bias them toward the state. If the state encourages greater welfare dependence, and indeed greater reliance on the state in all areas of life, then it generates a subservient, compliant, non questioning populace, who will never challenge their political masters. And let’s be clear, we are talking of a ‘master’ – ‘slave’ relationship.

Surely we are well on the way to this ‘Socialist Utopia’.
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August 29, 2009 11:45am
Angus

All of the dysfunction we see in today’s society can be clearly laid at the feet of the progressives, and until the govt of the day garners the testicular fortitude to make the difficult, long term solutions necessary to fix things, it will continue unabated.. A couple of excerpts from a Michael Bassett article from about 18months ago says it all:

Let’s be clear about a few things. Most of the problems in South Auckland can be traced back to a few stark things this government has refused to come to grips with over nine years. The criminals share several things in common. They are almost all from families where there is one parent on welfare, too many kids from several fathers in the household, inadequate supervision, easy prey from relatives or de factos, and access to alcohol and drugs. Far too many are Maori. The kids exist because they carry an entitlement to a benefit stamped on their brows, and the parent doesn’t care about their welfare for which the taxpayers give them money. That’s something to be delegated to the myriad of agencies this ministry has spawned. It’s the welfare cheque that matters for the parent. On pay day the parent, usually the mother, makes for the pub; the kids fend for themselves, or they go out with the gangs. Road carnage or home invasions follow. Domestic violence rises on the days of the week when there is enough money to purchase drugs and alcohol, while for the rest of the week hard luck stories emerge about people resorting to food parcels and there being no lunches at school. The Child Poverty Action Group gives us a sermon about poverty and argues for more money for the parents, which sensible people have long-since worked out would go on more alcohol and drugs. Teachers are in despair, little is taught to children except “cultural studies” that seem to legitimize the culture of despair that is a part of children’s everyday lives. And young adults emerge from this growing up process with no skills, no respect for their parents, their teachers, the society that bred them, or the laws of the land. The vicious cycle begins another round as children are conceived in the certain knowledge that Helen Clark’s Nanny State will provide a meager income to sustain the mother. Before long a de facto appears, child abuse occurs etc etc.

Before going home to their trendy pads in Ponsonby and Herne Bay, the media treat this social crisis like soft porn – titillating details of one tragedy after another. There’s no proper analysis of the cause of the problems. No brains engaged. One can’t help feeling sorry for new immigrants who have established their first foothold in New Zealand in areas where so many long-standing residents are doing little to look after themselves. Separating people off from the need to provide for themselves, earn money for food, a roof over their heads, a decent upbringing for their children, is the cruelest hoax that any government can perpetrate on its citizens. No amount of nannying can make up for a failure of the family unit to take responsibility for its own lives. The Domestic Purposes Benefit promoted so eagerly by many of the leaders in the current government, and the multifarious benefits available to people who refuse to take charge of their lives, have stoked the underclass to the stage where it has become a menace to the people themselves and to their new neighbours. Chinese and Indian immigrants are more family conscious than most of the welfare recipients in South Auckland. The newcomers expect to work for a living, educate their children, and help them to get ahead, if only to escape the mayhem that is such a large part of the neighborhoods they live in. They’ve worked out that there is something fundamentally rotten about a world where relatives turn up in court, abuse officials, support their offending relatives, or flock to tangis to mourn their young dead, the very people they did nothing to look after while they were alive. The Asian community understands hypocrisy when it sees it. And they are gob-smacked when ministers tell them to put up and shut up.
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August 29, 2009 11:52am
Kris K

Angus 11:24 am,

The left really need to come up with some new tactics to denigrate anyone who opposes them. It’s becoming all too predictable. First they claimed Beck was stupid, then crazy, now they are trying to censor him – with ratings like that, fat chance.

Why do the left always go on about hate? Because hate fills their own hearts. Click here to read what abuse Michelle Malkin [a conservative woman of Philippine descent] gets:

http://michellemalkin.com/2005/02/08/comments-trolls-and-the-lefts-continued-whore-fixation/

Redbaiter 11:29 am,

‘One of the keys to understanding the left is how they invariably resort to ‘projection.’ By projection, I mean they foist their own shortcomings and failings onto others, then criticize them for acting with such base motivations…’

Absolutely agree guys.
And we wonder why it’s impossible to actually debate the issues.

It is clear that, on the whole, the socialist left’s sole aim is to indoctrinate the masses and impliment their version of Nirvana. The fact that this will end in what will be nothing short of a living hell for those same masses is irrelevant to those idealogues driving this socialist nightmare. The obvious aim is absloute power and wealth for those at the helm, while the ignorant masses are nothing more than economic units whose sole purpose is to generate the wealth to prop up the very system which holds them prisoner.

I really wonder how many in future generations will dare raise a voice against increasingly socialist governments that will rule over them?
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August 29, 2009 12:28pm
backster

BRUV…..Pete UMBERS was a good friend and workmate of mine.I also knew his wife Sue. Peter would have been a proud and doting father watching his girls grow up. There are also his own parents and siblings to consider, their lives being blighted by Lackich. Sue a very competent and capable person, may now be able to forgive LACKICH I can’t, though I agree with him , hislife shouldn’t last any longer than Peter’s. I’m pleased that the current generation of cops still take him seriously. I think the little girl who complained to her teacher has just cause to be nervous.
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August 29, 2009 12:55pm
Jim

Angus: “Go the Beckster – he’s not even in a prime-time slot …”

Ahem, well, I hadn’t really heard of Glenn Beck until this hilarious Daily Show segment:

Glenn Beck v Glenn Beck

Not a good look, no matter how you slice it.
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August 29, 2009 12:56pm
Cerium

Seems like a bit much of the “they bad, we good” stuff again. I don’t believe everyone who the right call left are bad and who they call right are always right and good.

Most of what RB writes could be describing himself with a few polarity changes.

You’ll never be happy if you want the world your way and you aren’t prepared to see the middle ground where most people are most of the time. Unless you eliminate those you disagree with.
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August 29, 2009 1:01pm
Redbaiter

“you aren’t prepared to see the middle ground ”

Your pathetic posturing as a middle grounder when you’re in fact an extreme leftist is why you constantly come across as one of the most odiously decitful and cowardly posters on here.
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August 29, 2009 1:06pm
Redbaiter

“Not a good look, no matter how you slice it.”

Wow, such objective judgement is worth so much.
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August 29, 2009 1:07pm
Angus

“Not a good look, no matter how you slice it.”

“Wow, such objective judgement is worth so much”

..and so ill-informed to boot. I repeat:

The left really need to come up with some new tactics to denigrate anyone who opposes them. It’s becoming all too predictable.
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August 29, 2009 1:09pm
Cerium

“The left really need to come up with some new tactics to denigrate anyone who opposes them. ”

Like this?

“you constantly come across as one of the most odiously decitful and cowardly posters on here.”
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August 29, 2009 1:14pm
billyborker

Cerium (916) Vote: 0 0 Says:

August 29th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
“The left really need to come up with some new tactics to denigrate anyone who opposes them. ”

Like this?

“you constantly come across as one of the most odiously decitful and cowardly posters on here.”

No cerium, its not denigration when the right does it, its the truth. I feel a Tui billboard coming on.
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August 29, 2009 1:16pm
Cerium

Yes, that’s hilarious Jim. Wouldn’t be hard to come up with something similar…

Redbaiter v Redbaiter

They are oblivious to their contradictions.
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August 29, 2009 1:27pm
Redbaiter

“The left really need to come up with some new tactics to denigrate anyone who opposes them.”

Too true. Nobody with any awareness of their Stalinist strategies buys into the tactic of having political activists posing as comedians (John Stewart, Letterman, Franken etc) slander defame and ridicule Conservative politicians with false allegations doctored video clips and lies anymore.

“Like this?”

Not at all. I haven’t started on the ridicule yet. I prefer to mostly ignore someone so odious, except when their deceit is too outrageous, and needs to be corrected for the sake of accuracy. You made a completely false claim and it was refuted. This is not denigration. If anyone denigrates you here it is yourself by your own craven duplicity. The constant negative kharma is only one factor that proves it.
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August 29, 2009 1:32pm
wreck1080

As mentioned before, the herald reports that student violence has doubled, sometimes more than doubled.

Helen is directly responsible for this – her experiment has failed, and our children are paying the price. Soon, we will be paying the price when those children become uncontrollable adults. Fortunately for Helen, she has fled the country so she won’t feel the effects so much.

Anyway, we must immediately…

Reintroduce corporal punishment.

Increase numbers of male teachers in school.

Allow parents to physically discipline on their children.

Everyone knows this would work. At least, it seemed to work in the past.

So, why don’t we do it?
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August 29, 2009 1:44pm
Cerium

Until the violent behaviour improves the floggings should continue?
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August 29, 2009 1:47pm
Cerium

‘One of the keys to understanding the left is how they invariably resort to ‘projection.’ By projection, I mean they foist their own shortcomings and failings onto others, then criticize them for acting with such base motivations…’

Posted by the resident projectionist. Are you really not aware of how much you do this?
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August 29, 2009 1:50pm
Viking2

http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/your-views/2009/7/26/have-you-changed-your-parental-behaviour-anti-smacking-law-changes-tell-us-your-/?c_id=1501165&objectid=10586868&commentpage=3

Peter (Auckland)
23 hours, 18 minutes ago I see John Key is to appear on the Late Show with David Letterman in a few weeks. I would like David to ask John why he gives the fingers to 1.47 million kiwis on the subject of trivial smacking? Email your question for David to ask John, at lswdl@aol.com if you want to see John squirm. Tourists will be subject to this silly law too.
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August 29, 2009 2:02pm
Fletch

Further on re: GPS apps on the iPhone, there is a new one you can get for the iPhone called Yelp! What you do when it is installed is turn on your iPhone camera and links containing comments and reviews regarding the area and businesses around you are superimposed onto what you’re seeing through the iPhone viewfinder giving you an “augmented reality”.

Lifehacker has some images.
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August 29, 2009 2:13pm
Kris K

wreck1080 1:44 pm,

As mentioned before, the herald reports that student violence has doubled, sometimes more than doubled.
… Soon, we will be paying the price when those children become uncontrollable adults. …

Anyway, we must immediately…
Reintroduce corporal punishment.
Increase numbers of male teachers in school.
Allow parents to physically discipline on their children.

Everyone knows this would work. At least, it seemed to work in the past.

Amen to that!
The above described was the NZ I grew up in.

Today’s society produces children who are: self-centred, undisciplined, abusive, without respect, without boundaries, violent, did I mention disrespectful, ill-equiped, confused, feminised, PC, little sh!ts.

We ALL know the antidote; but some of us just refuse to acknowledge it.
The way our kids are turning out shows that in fact society, rather than loving them, shows nothing but hatred and contempt for the upcoming generation[s].

We should hang our heads in shame!
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August 29, 2009 2:16pm
Redbaiter

“Are you really not aware of how much you do this?”

I’m not the least bit interested in the bottomless delirium of the left. They are bludgers liars thieves and control freaks who have destroyed our country and our culture for the sake of political power, and they are fit only for contempt. What ever partisan judgments you feel compelled to post here concerning Redbaiter or any other issue are in my mind utterly worthless.
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August 29, 2009 2:47pm
malcolm

I lived in the US for a couple of years and am married to an American from the mid-west and a fairly conservative, middle-class church-going family. I certainly recognise much of what Paul Thomas notes in the article quoted by RedBaiter.

My mother-in-law believed that Barack Obama was a Muslim sleeper agent. Although I think she has moved on somewhat now. The last thing I heard her say on this subject is “I’m not sure if he hates his country, but I know his wife does.” 🙂

Anyway we will never know (the Muslim thing). That’s the cool thing about conspiracy theories – the more you try to disprove them, the more suspicious it looks. At least to the tin-foil hat brigade.

Re: RedBaiters comments about alienating 40% of potential visitors to NZ. I suspect a disproportionate number of these Americans have never left the US and probably never will. If they do, it would probably be to visit Hawaii (as no passport required and no need to deal with foreigners or give money to terrorists).

cheers

Malcolm
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August 29, 2009 2:49pm
Cerium

“I’m not the least bit interested in the bottomless delirium of the left. They are bludgers liars thieves and control freaks”

You can’t prove I am “of the left” apart from obviously being of the left of you, which means most people.
You know nothing to suggest I am a bludger.
You know nothing to suggest I am a thief.
You don’t know I am a control freak – anyone who does know me knows I’m not.
Like everyone I’ve been known to lie, but at least I know when I’m lying. You don’t know or don’t care when you are.
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August 29, 2009 3:00pm
transmogrifier

Regarding the school violence statistics, a worrying trend indeed. However, one thing I find amusing is that the people who (rightly) decry them and bemoan the corrosion of respect for authority and self-discipline are many of the same people who cheered and were inordinately proud of Paul Henry for publicly mocking some woman with a hairy face.

I’m sorry, you can’t have it both ways – either you value manners, respect and self-discipline, or you don’t.
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August 29, 2009 3:23pm
Cerium

That’s an interesting point transmogrifier, maybe it’s also the same people wanting kids to respect school authority who don’t respect the government’s authority.

I wonder if Key is a bit wary of giving parents the ok to do a bit of smacking. Those most fervently behind this move want to go further than a pat on the bum with the hand. What will they demand next? They thought the referendum would give them a toe in the door? Then use the “mandate” to push for what? Wooden spoon? Belt (not the buckle end for now). Strap and cane at school? Birch for criminals? Then a tree and a rope?
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August 29, 2009 4:07pm
Cerium

How many who want capital punishment brought back into schools would be happy to have some lefty school teacher belting their kid into shape?
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August 29, 2009 4:25pm
backster

ANGUS;….My favourite Fox Presenter is Julie Banderas on Monday evenings. Her passion and beauty takes the news to a new dimension. I know she has plenty of fans but any idea how many viewers.
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August 29, 2009 4:36pm
Southern Raider

Once again the left takes discipline and starts inserting terms like belting, beating and bashing.
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August 29, 2009 4:55pm
Southern Raider

Was fowarded an email this week about how NZ was the number one country for freedom/human rights etc.

Quite good until I saw they had placed Israel at about 165 out of 170 countries. They has actually rated Israel lower than Zimbabwe.

I then looked to see who had composed this list and to my surprise it was somone like Human Rights Watch. What a friggin joke.
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August 29, 2009 4:59pm
Herman Poole

Cerium,

Regardless of how you may see yourself you are a leftist. Your values are left of the average New Zealander.
In fact the numbers suggest that on S59 you are far left in New Zealand today.
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August 29, 2009 5:21pm
philu

“..How many who want capital punishment brought back into schools..”

isn’t that going a tad too far..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 29, 2009 5:25pm
Cerium

“Once again the left takes discipline and starts inserting terms like belting”

That’s how I remember the strap. What would you call it? Some PC term like “transitory and trifling” discipline?
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August 29, 2009 5:25pm
Cerium

Herman, I don’t like S59 as it is. I have made that clear a number of times. Does that make me not a leftie?

If those that don’t like S59 are the lefties then there can’t be many lefties. Try telling RB that.

The Boscawen bill does not allow inflicting by “any weapon, tool or implement” – would parents who can’t use a belt be happy for teachers to use one.
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August 29, 2009 5:30pm
Kris K

Southern Raider 4:59 pm,

Was fowarded an email this week about how NZ was the number one country for freedom/human rights etc.
Quite good until I saw they had placed Israel at about 165 out of 170 countries. They has actually rated Israel lower than Zimbabwe.
I then looked to see who had composed this list and to my surprise it was somone like Human Rights Watch. What a friggin joke.

The thing with regards to Israel is that the UN, Human Rights Watch, et al only count the missiles leaving Israel. From their perspective no bombs, etc enter Israel.
Those disgusting Jews; how dare they defend themselves.

And they’ll probably give Mugabe the Nobel Peace Prize like they did Arafat. What a lovely chap.
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August 29, 2009 6:05pm
Southern Raider

Had to laugh that one of the rating criteria was safety.

Having been to Israel (and survived :)) I struggled to understand how it could only be one place above Iraq.
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August 29, 2009 6:26pm
Kris K

You and I both.

Certainly not safety for the Jews.
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August 29, 2009 6:34pm
side show bob

Further to what I have said on Shonkey and his stance on the smacking debate, I have once again asked my contact if they stand by their statement that we have been sold out. My contact only confirmed what I was told earlier. Apparently the Dear One his signed up to UN conventions that limit quite a few of our so called freedoms, smacking is just a minor part in some of the shit that is going on. Shonkey can’t change the law as we have lost to laws set by the UN nor can we change certain laws in our own country. Shonkey tried to placate the population with his agreement with Liarbore but he was sold a lie. I know this sounds like shit but I have been assured that we are caught between a hard place and a rock and so is Shonkey
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August 29, 2009 7:46pm
Hurf Durf

RE the crapness of the Huruld: it doesn’t help that all of its world stuff is crap siphoned off from the Observer and the Independent.
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August 29, 2009 8:43pm
kaya

side show bob – So does that mean we can’t tell the UN to fuck off? Do they have some sort of economic hold over us?
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August 29, 2009 9:15pm
Jim

Angus et al:

“Not a good look, no matter how you slice it.”

“Wow, such objective judgement is worth so much”

..and so ill-informed to boot.

Did you watch the clip, or is 5 minutes beyond your attention span?

I repeat: The left really need to come up with some new tactics to denigrate anyone who opposes them. It’s becoming all too predictable.

Well, I’m right of most people (certainly right of the present NZ govt) – but I’m not so far gone that I can’t see straight. News media muppets who are as spectacularly self-defeating as Glenn Beck deserve all the ridicule they get.
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August 29, 2009 9:27pm
Banana Llama

I don’t see how the U.N could hold anything over our heads, we would probably have to swallow some foul tasting medicine but there are plenty of developing country’s who are open and willing to trade with us.
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August 29, 2009 9:46pm
philu

sideshow bob..a.k.a. bloody hands bob…is a creature rent with delusional rightwing paranoid fantasies…

..he is tin-foil-hat material..

..seeing as the u.n. gives the solid impression they couldn’t organise a piss-up in a brewery..

..it does stretch the imagination to have them running a global conspiracy..

..but bloody hands bob never lets realities get in the way of his survivalist-dreams..

..best to just laugh at his rants..and then move on..i’ve found..

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 29, 2009 10:31pm
philu

delete duplicate
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August 29, 2009 11:00pm
jackp

Most of what I have seen come out of the UN is crap. I can see it being a peace keeping organization, but it still doesn’t yield the strength to do that. It if had any balls it would have helped with those millions that died of famine or brutally murdered in Africa. It didn’t.
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August 30, 2009 2:51pm

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