General Debate 28 August 2009

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Chthoniid

Thought I’d go back to a creep-crawlie theme for today.

I found a near microscopic harvestmen (Opilionid) in some bush nearby recently. The Opilionids are spider-relatives, but not actually spiders. They’re not poisonous, they don’t dash about or make webs, and they’re tiny.

This happens to be the weirdest long-legged natyive harvestmen I’ve found- and it’s extremely likely to have never been spotted before. So, Kiwiblog viewerss get the chance to see something that is (probably) very unique. Heck, anybody can take a photo of a kitten.

Bear in mind that this guy has an actual bodylength of about 3mm. Magnification has been ramped up very high.

Grooming
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p956213934-4.jpg

Just Odd
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p780814847-4.jpg

Lovely smile
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p872002755-4.jpg

Rest of the pictures are all here- http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/p638753185 If you feel inspired, have a visit and let me know what you like.

Now, coffee time. Something Colombian I think…
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August 28, 2009 7:18am
Cerium

Nice pics, ugly critter (referring to Opilionid).
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August 28, 2009 7:24am
andrei

Have you read Steven Jay Gould’s “Wonderful Life” Chthoniid?

For some reason it popped into my head when looking at your weird critter pics this morning.
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August 28, 2009 7:39am
toad

DPF, can I change my vote for Gerry Brownlee in your poll to “Very poor” following yesterday’s debacle?
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August 28, 2009 7:58am
big bruv

What is wrong with a bit of mining Toad?

You people are always banging on about lifting the minimum wage, a mining boom may well help the very people you pretend to care about.

Mine baby mine!
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August 28, 2009 8:03am
Andrew W

Like Toad hadn’t already voted “Very poor”.
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August 28, 2009 8:18am
NeillR

I wasn’t sure how Lockwood Smith would go as speaker, but it seems that he’s doing a mighty fine job:
From the NZ Herald

Labour’s Trevor Mallard wanted his say and world-weary Speaker Lockwood Smith let him have a go: “We have wasted so much time now that I may as well hear the Hon Trevor Mallard”.
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August 28, 2009 8:32am
homepaddock

“What is wrong with a bit of mining Toad?” When the Oteake Park between North and Central Otago was formed a tiny piece – 195 hectares – was set aside because there is a lignite deposit under it. That leaves the remaining 64, 805 hectares of the park in the conservation estate.

That’s a sensible mix of economic and environmental objectives.
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August 28, 2009 8:42am
lukas

NeillR, I agree Lockwood has done well. He has a test coming up with the Maori Party pulling their minority report on the ETS select committee though

http://lukewebster.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/maori-party-on-ets/
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August 28, 2009 8:46am
Banana Llama

Bet the country could make a few bucks from the timber and endangered pelts as well.
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August 28, 2009 8:52am
getstaffed

Something Colombian I think…

Suggest beans, not powder. Black, not white 🙂
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August 28, 2009 8:54am
toad

Andrew W said: Like Toad hadn’t already voted “Very poor”.

Actually, I hadn’t – I gave Gerry “Average” shortly after the poll started on Monday. Nick Smith and Anne Tolley were the only ones I voted as “Very Poor”.

[DPF: You can do different vote next poll. I think a few people want to change the Key vote also after he ruled out the Boscawen bill!]
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August 28, 2009 9:02am
hj

This issue will just be another symbolic one (no nuances in between): greedy capitalists versus greenies. Delahunty and co will love it.
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August 28, 2009 9:05am
MikeNZ

If her email to me on Smacking is anything to go by, they’ll use the Alinsky method of debate.
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August 28, 2009 9:27am
Chthoniid

@Cerium 7:24 am

Thanks, I was quite pleased with the shots as this is really the limit with what I can do with a hand-held camera (and the lens quality I’ve use). Most of the time I was guessing where the focal plane would be.

Our Opilionids really are quite strange- very archaic in many ways (as is typical with much of our wildlife- it’s a veritable Gondwanaland-like museum). Unfortunately nobody has really done any more study on them since the early 1950s.

Of course, their mates tend to think such looks are the height of attractiveness… 😀

@andrei 7:39 am

Alas not, I’ll have to pick it up. I like a lot of what he has written.

@getstaffed 8:54 am

No worries, I appreciate the beans, just the beans :). And a nice single-malt in the evening. No Johnny Walker Red with L&P allowed.
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August 28, 2009 9:28am
Chthoniid

I developed a theory that environmentalists of the 1970s and early 80s, determined that the litmus tests for being ‘in their club’ was anti-whaling, anti-mining and anti-nuclear weapons.

This is the era of Project Jonah and the rapid growth in the anti-whaling movement, the era of opposition to gold mining in the Corommandel (e.g. Cath Wallace cut her teeth in this issue) and the growing anti-nuke movements.

This seems to be perpetuated, possibly as many of the key environmentalist players of this era have hang around and influenced the thinking of others.

Unfortunately it’s creating a lot of inertia and drag on environmental policy.

Here’s the relevant numbers.
The global average terrestrial area that is protected for conservation is 5%.
The IUCN has a target of 10% globally.
NZ has protected in a legal sense, over 30%.

Now, of that, about half exists in a state of fiction. So about 15% of our terrestrial area has been assigned to rats, mustelids, wasps and possums as their domain. These aren’t really reserves, they’re paper parks.

So we have the absurdity that letting invasive species take our native wildlife to the brink of extinction (and beyond) in half the protected areas is a sound conservation policy. FFS, all it does is make a lot of greenies feel that good about themselves.

Yet, a slight reduction in the size of the conservation estate to accommodate a less doctrinaire mining policy gets the predicted howls of outrage. There are undoubtedly areas of low conservation value that could be mined in a environmentally sound way and restored in ways that would deliver both conservation and economic benefits.

I think we need to be looking a lot more carefully at what the conservation estate is costing us and what we are getting out of it in return.
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August 28, 2009 9:44am
wreck1080

Property question: Was taking a look at residential property investment. From what I understand, you should go for a yield of around 7-8% (after expenses, before taxes)

To achieve that yield for a 300k house, you’d have to charge around $500 rent per week,

Currently, that looks impossible. You’d be lucky to get $300 a week for the type of house that 300k gets you.

Or, am I wrong?
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August 28, 2009 10:04am
first time caller

Great pics, I look forward to them.
I’m a real arachnaphob but can’t help myself but look. I know you said it wasn’t a spider but I’d still not sleep in the same room with it.
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August 28, 2009 10:19am
Linda Reid

wreck1080 – If you want a cashflow positive investment, you need to have enough rent coming in to cover interest, property management fees, insurance, rates, R&M, and potential vacant periods (usual to allow 2 weeks per annum.)

Note: you should really also take into account the opportunity cost on your deposit.

It’s difficult to find a property that will return that kind of return, but not impossible.

There are some ways to increase rent and therefore yield, mainly through buying a cheaper property and adding an extra bedroom and/or tarting it up in a way to adds to the rental return, etc.

I’m happy to discuss this with you – I’ve done a lot of homework in this area. emial me at linda at leighshaw.co.nz
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August 28, 2009 10:30am
Repton

For Redbaiter: Afterbirthers demand to see Obama’s placenta
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August 28, 2009 11:30am
Redbaiter

“For Redbaiter”

This from a moron who a few days ago was telling readers he was setting up his browser so that he was spared the compulsion to read Redbaiter’s posts because they were all on “American Conspiracy Theories”. Go away you vapid hypocritical dumbarse. Your credibility rating and your IQ have both just slid into minus figures.
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August 28, 2009 11:51am
kaya

Is it just me or is the whole mining of DOC land thing yesterday a cunning body swerve by the Nats to deflect the discussion from the referendum?
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August 28, 2009 12:25pm
getstaffed

kaya, yeah they’ve gone from hug-a-greenie to smack-a-greenie pretty quickly.
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August 28, 2009 12:30pm
Kris K

Chthoniid 7:18 am,

Thought I’d go back to a creep-crawlie theme for today.

I found a near microscopic harvestmen (Opilionid) in some bush nearby recently. The Opilionids are spider-relatives, but not actually spiders. They’re not poisonous, they don’t dash about or make webs, and they’re tiny.

Excellent photos as usual.
What makes them only spider relatives and not fully fledged spiders?
Is it because they’re not poisonous, or don’t make webs, or in fact both of these traits?
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August 28, 2009 12:43pm
Kris K

Chthoniid 9:44 am,

Absolutely agree with the whole comment.

So we have the absurdity that letting invasive species take our native wildlife to the brink of extinction (and beyond) in half the protected areas is a sound conservation policy. FFS, all it does is make a lot of greenies feel that good about themselves.

Yet, a slight reduction in the size of the conservation estate to accommodate a less doctrinaire mining policy gets the predicted howls of outrage. There are undoubtedly areas of low conservation value that could be mined in a environmentally sound way and restored in ways that would deliver both conservation and economic benefits.

The greenies certainly seem to have zero-tolerance regarding giving up any of the conservation estate regardless of any argument that may be provided, no matter how ecologically sound.

And regarding the likes of possums, etc destroying our native forests: You’d think the green movement would be actively encouraging a possum fur industry, where possums are either trapped or hunted, as a means of population control. Of course this would also have the beneficial spin-off of providing employment for not only trappers/hunters, but for all others involved throughout this ‘new’ industry.

The fact that this isn’t Green Party policy is indicative, I feel, of the hypocracy of the international green movement in general.
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August 28, 2009 12:43pm
MT_Tinman

Fuck the conservationists!

The history of life is about species adapting or pegging out.

There is no reason what so ever that this natural selection should not occur and the only thing necessary is a reminder/recording of these animals and plants for the edification of future generations.

If mining is going to help the dominant species let the mining occur, the “endangered” species can be moved AT THE CONVERSATIONALIST”S EXPENSE, adapt or vanish.

The only animals worth protecting are salmon, trout and the bastards who hunt them (all introduced species by the way).
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August 28, 2009 1:27pm
wreck1080

@linda:

Thanks very much for the info. I’d just done a few back of the envelope calculations – it does seem pretty tricky to get positive cashflow.
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August 28, 2009 1:28pm
Patrick Starr

Rotoruas Westpac employee may have found a new job

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10593703
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August 28, 2009 1:31pm
Linda Reid

@wreck1080 – yes, it is. Most investors rely on depreciation to give them a tax loss – which if done correctly can reduce taxable income and result in tax refunds. There are ways to make sure your depreciation is the maximum allowable.

Of course when you sell the property, some or all of the deprecation could be clawed back – so it’s more like tax deferral.

Ultimately they are looking for capital gain.

Look at multi unit properties – these are often cash flow positive, or at properties in areas where you can rent-by-the-room. Close to universities is good for that.
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August 28, 2009 1:37pm
andrei

Thanks very much for the info. I’d just done a few back of the envelope calculations – it does seem pretty tricky to get positive cashflow

Its piss easy if you are the Minister of finance – you just get your property declared and Official Ministerial Residence and let it to the Crown
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August 28, 2009 1:38pm
Chthoniid

@Kris K

Excellent photos as usual.
What makes them only spider relatives and not fully fledged spiders?
Is it because they’re not poisonous, or don’t make webs, or in fact both of these traits?

Thanks 🙂 A lot of what makes NZ’s biodiversity really unique is the small stuff- the creepy-crawlies and lower plants.

The thing about arachnids is really that they all have chelicerae and a basic body division (6 segments in the front, 12 at the back). So there are a lot of arachnid orders but spiders are only one of them. NZ has 5 of the orders (Spiders, Mites, False-scorpions, Harvetstmen and Cyphophthalmids (don’t ask!)).

Morphologically, the differences with spiders are that Opilionids don’t have a waist between the two bodyparts, that the segments on their rear (opithosoma) are visible, and the chelicerae have 3 parts, not 2.

You can pick out the three parts of the chelicerae in the last photo.

Fwiw, Opilionids only have 2 eyes, whereas the ‘normal’ number for spiders is 8.

Unfortunately nobody has really studied our Opilionids since the work by Ray Forster in the early 50s. And I can’t even begin to try to classify the guy I photographed 🙁
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August 28, 2009 1:55pm
Chthoniid

@Kris K

The greenies certainly seem to have zero-tolerance regarding giving up any of the conservation estate regardless of any argument that may be provided, no matter how ecologically sound.

There is definitely a strong core of environmentalists who ‘buy in’ to the maximise legal protection idea. We went to the CITES meeting in Florida some years ago, proposing that kiwis be listed on Appendix I (no international commercial trade possible). The original idea was just brown kiwis, but that mushroomed to all of our kiwi species.

The proposal got rejected for the very simple reason there was no international trade in kiwis to ban. As it should have been and any introspection in DoC would have determined.

I felt it was indicative of this attitude of passing as many laws as we can, in the unexamined belief it will end conservation threats.

And regarding the likes of possums, etc destroying our native forests…

The fact that this isn’t Green Party policy is indicative, I feel, of the hypocracy of the international green movement in general.

It’s fur.

Internationally speaking there is one NGO grouping that dwarfs the conservation NGOs. It collects a lot more money and had a lot more influence. This is the Animal Rights movement.

Internationally speaking, most wildlife management policies are now driven by the Western 30-year old women who donate regularly to AR campaigns. These people donate on the basis of emotion, not achievement.

WSPA, SAFE and IFAW and the like, haven’t as far as I know, stopped bear bile farming in China. If you donating to them on the basis of achievement, well, they’d be broke. But they’re well funded with offices everywhere, popup ads jump out at you on the web. Bear farms in China have become their money-pump. There’s a good % of the public who are manipulated by sad animal eyes and a sob-story.

Tried going duck-hunting in NSW recently?
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August 28, 2009 2:14pm
Kris K

MT_Tinman 1:27 pm,

Although I sense you’re taking the proverbial, you do raise an interesting point.

The history of life is about species adapting or pegging out.

There is no reason what so ever that this natural selection should not occur and the only thing necessary is a reminder/recording of these animals and plants for the edification of future generations.

If mining is going to help the dominant species let the mining occur, the “endangered” species can be moved AT THE CONVERSATIONALIST”S EXPENSE, adapt or vanish.

It is interesting how many greenies are usually die-hard evolutionists.
And yet true evolutionists should accept that if they hold true to evolutionary belief, then, ‘survival of the fittest’ should be the ONLY determining factor regarding whether or not a species survives.
On the basis that, in most cases, man is the ‘fittest’, then surely if we wipe out anything that inhibits our species’ self determination then we are only operating within evolutionary principles.

On the same basis we should do away with all ‘laws’ because this, once again, goes against ‘survival of the fittest’.
For example, if my neighbour has a bigger house than me I should have the right to ‘eliminate’ him and his family so that my family and I can relocate into a more suitable ‘environment’, because this better provides for our ongoing ‘survival’.

Nuke the whales I say; they’re affecting my fish supply. [And watch out anyone else].
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August 28, 2009 2:22pm
Falafulu Fisi

Hey Toad, I think that King Tupou 5th of Tonga would want you and your fellow greenies including those who are anti-progressed to civilization to go there and inhabit a few of those uninhabited islands. There are 133 uninhabited islands that are still virgin out of a total of 169 total. Only 36 that are currently being inhabited. King Tupou would love people like you to inhabit these virgin islands because he may want to preserve the natural resources without being explored/exploited by humans. If you can withstand of not having electricity, internet, modern communications, cook on an open fire, etc, then please let me know so that I can connect you and fellow greenies to some people I know so that an arrangement can be made for you and your buddies so you can make a move there.

Are you up for it? If not , then why not? After all, you greenies are always bitching about us humans for exploiting the environment for our own survival. See, us who like civilization to advance, know that we must exploit the earth’s (resources) or die.

I am waiting for your response.
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August 28, 2009 2:24pm
stephen

If mining is going to help the dominant species let the mining occur, the “endangered” species can be moved AT THE CONVERSATIONALIST”S EXPENSE, adapt or vanish.

Lol I sense somehow that you’d prefer to talk about it for a bit.
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August 28, 2009 2:38pm
Kris K

Chthoniid 2:14 pm,

‘And regarding the likes of possums, etc destroying our native forests…
The fact that this isn’t Green Party policy is indicative, I feel, of the hypocracy of the international green movement in general.’

It’s fur.
Internationally speaking there is one NGO grouping that dwarfs the conservation NGOs. It collects a lot more money and had a lot more influence. This is the Animal Rights movement.

I know what you’re saying, but aren’t all these same NGOs being totally inconsistant?
For example, NZ exports meat products, cattle and sheep pelts, etc., with no outcry [or perhaps minimal]. These animals are all introduced species. And so therefore there should be no difference with us sourcing pelt products from another introduced species [and a pest to boot]; namely the possum [we could include wild deer and pig as well].

But I know this is driven purely by emotional response, and common sense flew out the window yonks ago.

Maybe we could set up little possum type farms where we only shear them?
Would that keep the lunatic fringe happy?
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August 28, 2009 2:47pm
philu

“..See, us who like civilization to advance, know that we must exploit the earth’s (resources) or die..”

much like the inhabitants of easter island..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 28, 2009 2:57pm
Chthoniid

@first time caller

Great pics, I look forward to them.
I’m a real arachnaphob but can’t help myself but look. I know you said it wasn’t a spider but I’d still not sleep in the same room with it.

Thanks for the photo comments

In practice I’d be completely amazed if you could actually see it 🙂
Small cryptozoa don’t exactly try to draw attention to themselves.

I’m fairly inured to the creepy-crawlies I’m afraid.

NZ is not as bad as some parts of the Asia-Pacific where say, you have to shake the cockroaches out of the bed before going to sleep. If I may share a travel tip, try to pick a room where the geckos outnumber the cockroaches. That way there’s a good chance the geckos will get the cockroaches before they make it back into your bed 🙂
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August 28, 2009 3:03pm
big bruv

So George Baker kidnapped an 87 year old child molester, why on earth would the prison service spend ANY time trying to talk Baker out of killing the kiddie fucker?

The armed offenders squad should have been called, a request made to Baker (one only) to let the man go, when he refuses you shoot them both.

We free up two more prison beds and save ourselves a fortune.
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August 28, 2009 3:03pm
Rakaia George

It is interesting how many greenies are usually die-hard evolutionists.
And yet true evolutionists should accept that if they hold true to evolutionary belief, then, ’survival of the fittest’ should be the ONLY determining factor regarding whether or not a species survives.

WTF? Evolution by Natural Selection is scientific fact, not a creed to live by….following your logic, because gravitational attraction between bodies is proportional to the product of their masses we should all jump off a cliff.
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August 28, 2009 3:15pm
Falafulu Fisi

Phil U said…
much like the inhabitants of easter island..?

Irrelevant comparison Phil. The Easter Islanders didn’t have knowledge, apart from exploiting the environment & resources till they all disappear. Did they think ? Nope. How about today? Yep, we do know how to exploit and also replenish? There are millions of cows & sheeps that are still walking on the surface of the earth despite the more millions that are being slaughtered weekly for the purpose of consumption. Had we been so dumb like the Easter Islanders, then cows and sheeps would have become extinct species long time ago. But no, they’re still walking on our farms because we’re no dumb, we’re simply smart, so stop comparing irrelevant events from hundred’s of years ago to the modern knowledgeable man of today’s Phil.
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August 28, 2009 3:27pm
philu

“..Irrelevant comparison Phil. The Easter Islanders didn’t have knowledge, apart from exploiting the environment & resources till they all disappear. Did they think ? Nope. How about today? Yep, we do know how to exploit and also replenish?..”

fisi..it is rare that i am struck speechless..

but you have done it…

(cows and sheep are yr ‘good’ examples..?..eh..?..)

i just don’t know where to ‘start’..

..so won’t..

..carry on..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 28, 2009 3:31pm
Kris K

Rakaia George 3:15 pm,

WTF? Evolution by Natural Selection is scientific fact, not a creed to live by….following your logic, because gravitational attraction between bodies is proportional to the product of their masses we should all jump off a cliff.

I don’t know George.
Many people base their whole philosophy on, so called, scientific fact. Their philosophy is their creed.

Mind you, I can think of quite a few people that would ‘improve the gene pool’ by locating the nearest high cliff.
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August 28, 2009 3:33pm
Viking2

Change of Subject.

Williams named chief exec of anti-P trust
By JONATHAN MARSHALL – Sunday News
Last updated 14:40 28/08/2009

NEW ROLE: Former Labour Party president Mike Williams has been named as the new Chief Executive of the anti-methamphetamine charity, Stellar Trust.
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The day after the night before St John checking patient deaths Surgery checklist to help prevent injury in hospitals St John probes swine flu handling Fight for life turned into picture book Swine flu patient blinks to connect St John in apology for flu larking ACC treatment of sex abuse victims defended Birthday bash leaves sour taste Baking industry to add folic acid to bread

Former Labour Party president Mike Williams has been appointed chief executive of Stellar Trust – a charity setup to combat methamphetamine.

Stellar Trust was established in 2008 by a group of east Auckland Rotarians and is fronted by broadcaster Paul Holmes whose daughter Millie is before the courts on numerous drugs charges.

The organisation aims to raise money so they can fund education programmes in schools and communities.

“Lives are ruined with this drug, there are plenty more people like Millie out there and families are torn apart. We need to stop this,” Williams said.

Stellar Trust has been functioning under the management of a board of trustees supported by an advisory board. But recently it was decided to appoint a chief executive to assist with raising more money.

Both Williams and Holmes are old friends who first met during their schooling years.

Williams will begin work in his new role on Monday. The appointment coincides with Holmes being given the title of “Stellar Trust ambassador”.

Williams announced he was stepping down from the role of Labour Party president shortly after the election after a series of embarrassing and controversial blunders including flying to Australia to dig dirt on National leader John Key.

He was replaced by Andrew Little, secretary of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union.

Stellar Trust chairman Alistair Burry refused to say how much Williams would be paid for his role as Stellar Trust’s chief executive. “It is a private employment matter,” Burry said.

He said the remuneration package was lower than a chief executive in the commercial environment would expect to receive.

Williams will continue in his role as a board member of the Auckland Regional Transport Authority (ARTA).
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August 28, 2009 6:00pm
Steve

Chthoniid,
I too look forward to your input on Fridays.
Creepy – crawly? ugly?
Thought I might see Phool, but then you would never do repugnant would you?
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August 28, 2009 6:22pm
Jack5

New topic for a second if I may…

I note Former Immigration Minister Tuariki Delamere, now an immigration consultant, is in Tonga giving advice on how as many as 3000 overstayers may get back into the country because they have NZ born children. (Link below).

Delamere when he was Immigration Minister greatly annoyed a South Island community by expelling a popular German family with NZ born children. They weren’t even overstayers. The dad had something like an undeclared cannabis conviction in Germany.

What drives this guy? Is it the money? Is it some sort of ethnic preference?

The link:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10593660
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August 28, 2009 6:46pm
Chthoniid

Thanks Steve- I operate under the presumption that most people can appreciate some of the unique wildlife NZ (still) has. Just so happens rather a lot of it (sadly still undescribed) is the creepy-crawlie variety 🙂

I ignore Phool on the blogosphere (heck, most people do given his blog’s downward plunge to irrelevancy), so have no desire to waste anytime on him in real life. My TGIF photos will remain a Phool-free zone 😉

Plans to spend some time amongst the crocodiles later this year are progressing well.
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August 28, 2009 7:26pm
Hurf Durf

Jack5, Tuariki Delamere is a [deleted by DPF]. Just the kind of thing Labour loves to have in its token ethnicity ranks.
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August 28, 2009 7:36pm
Komata

So, the Greenies are getting all upset about the possibility that mining might actually restart – this despite the fact that we are in a Depression, and that NZ actually does have the resources to help pull us out of it (gold, coal, iron-sand etc).

It doesn’t appear to occur to these people (and there are some here I suspect) that their shear selfishness in a time of national crisis could well make the difference between the county’s economic recovery or not. Saving the Whales and snails is all very charming but it won’t help create jobs and put food on the tables of the workers (or don’t workers matter -the cause being all?)

This must inevitably lead-onto a question, namely:

IF those who profess to be against the extractive industries are REALLY committed to ‘the cause’ of saving the planet by boycotting mining, then why are blogging here, driving cars, using oil, wearing synthetics and generally using materials that are mined?

I ask this because if they really believe in ‘the cause’ then it is reasonable to expect that this is what they would do, or are they merely poseurs – ‘chardonnay conservatists ‘ who want to protest because its ‘oh so trendy’ and so they can be seen to be doing ‘something’, but who really have no problems about using all the things that modern technology (which just happens to use a very large number of extracted materials) offers.

I would be interested in learning how those who profess to be ‘Green’ and ‘anti-mining’ can justify this evident anomoly – perhaps some of those who are that way inclined could use their (mined) gold and silver and iron-equipped computers (with the mined) glass screens to explain the situation.

And in case anyone is wondering, yes this IS a genuine attempt to try to learn how this contradiction can be justified by those who practice it – I (and no doubt others) will be very interested in the answers.

Thanks.
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August 28, 2009 7:57pm
ophiuchus

Ok I’ve had my liberal post yesterday so now it’s time to get into a more conservative vein for me.

In times of the fledgling economy, mining will certainly bring NZ back out into the open. We have so much wealth and opportunity lying beneath the surface, and our environmental technology will reduce any emissions that the greenies are so scared of.
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August 28, 2009 8:20pm
philu

funny local tv show alert..!

it is called 7 days..

last week was the first one..

..and it was funny..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/a-newfunny-local-comedy-showits-called-7-days/

it is on 3 @ 10..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 28, 2009 8:47pm
village idiot

Komata asks a ‘greenie’ to explain why mining our ‘banked’ mineral resources is a bad idea. He clearly doesn’t grasp the concept in ecological terms, but might recognise the financial investment equivalent. Is a recession the time to sell your capital Komata?
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August 28, 2009 8:51pm
nickb

Anyone else get fucked off about people talking about tax raises being fine as long as they are “revenue neutral”?

Why are we putting up with this? Why can’t the debate be about whether we’d need as much revenue if we stopped funding fuckwit wet handwringing qunagos like the Families Commission? How many fuckin policy advisory boards etc etc do we need? Isn’t that what politicians are for?
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August 28, 2009 9:40pm
ophiuchus

“He clearly doesn’t grasp the concept in ecological terms.”

And clearly you haven’t grasped the fact that not all mining companies are fucktards. I live about quarter of an hour from an Alcoa refinery near Pinjarra, Western Australia, and they are seriously trying their best to restore the land to its original condition before it was mined for bauxite. This includes genetic modification of the jarrah trees that originally populated the area to thrive in the altered soils, as well as strict precautions are taken in order to prevent the spread of fungal diseases. They even make some of there own power.
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August 28, 2009 9:40pm
kaya

nickb – there is a small problem in NZ, we haven’t got very many real jobs therefore we make them up complete with fancy titles, offices, cars and the odd travel perk. You just need to harden up a bit and work an extra few hours every week. 🙂
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August 28, 2009 10:15pm
nickb

Haha agreed Kaya.
Becoming seriously disillusioned with the Nats though…. Ruth Richardson for PM! haha
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August 28, 2009 10:28pm
wikiriwhis business

” Ruth Richardson for PM! haha”

THe influence of Richardson, Shipley, Muldoon, Rogers, Moore, Cullen, Clark, lives on

Treacherous Fabian socialists one and all

Where do you think Act came from?
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August 29, 2009 1:08pm

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