General Debate 22 AUgust 2009

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Patrick Starr

This is a curious post on the watermelon party blog

“Methane is already seeping from Arctic seabed”
Saturday August 22nd, 2009 @ 7:26 am by frog
“This is now no longer a potential threat, but a proven reality. As the Arctic warms, methane hydrates long frozen beneath the surface are beginning to melt. Is this the tipping point? Probably not. But it does indicate that the possibility is not science fiction scaremongering, but science fact.”

http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/08/22/methane-is-already-seeping-from-arctic-seabed/

So ‘if’ methane is now natuarlly being dischared at a great rate of knots from the seabead, as claimed by the Green Party – why are we bothering to try and reduce our own emissions? Are they admitting that ‘A’GW was untrue, and the climate cycle will occor anyway? and ‘if’ the Arctic is mealting, as claimed – are we likely to reverse it by an ETS?

Alan Wilkinson – I’d appreciate if you could share your views on this?
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August 22, 2009 12:41pm
Redbaiter

NZ Herald lying in its editorial.

“Ever since the rush-of-blood decision to exclude Maori,”

Maori have never been excluded. This is a blatant lie.

So typcial of corruption that has made the mainstream media a foul and anti-democratic institution that has a lot to answer for in respect of the sad fate that has befallen what was once such a great little country.
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August 22, 2009 12:44pm
andrei

Hey ho – the sky is falling and the Arctic is farting.
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August 22, 2009 12:55pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

Andre, I think that’s supposed to be belching.
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August 22, 2009 1:00pm
joeAverage

I see three chinese tourests were robbed at knife point by two maori, in the far north. How many tourist dollars will depart NZ as this robbery will be mentioned in China and Chinese will not come here. GOOD ONE BRO 🙁 If it was up to me i would charge the dumb fucks with economic sabotage
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August 22, 2009 1:06pm
Cerium

The National Climatic Data Center, the government agency that keeps weather records, says the average global ocean temperature in July was 62.6 degrees. That’s the hottest since record-keeping began in 1880. The previous record was set in 1998.

Meteorologists blame a combination of a natural El Nino weather pattern on top of worsening manmade global warming. The warmer water could add to the melting of sea ice and possibly strengthen some hurricanes.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jLv3LpI0fw21ULmgkJtinBFrwm7AD9A6OUF06

Commie thermometers?
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August 22, 2009 1:08pm
billyborker

So joe, do you believe there is no crime in China?

Crime happens everywhere, the biggest problem the tourism industry faces is not isolated incidences of crime, but dipshits (like you and Kerry prendergast) making a huge song and dance about.

Personally, I’d be a whole lot happier if I never saw another Chinese face in NZ.

[DPF: You boast about what a great parent you are. Does that extend to teaching your children to be racists like you are?]
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August 22, 2009 1:10pm
Kris K

So now that 87.6% have voted against the ‘Bradford Abomination’, I wonder if we should get the true feelings of the electorate regarding whether or not homos should be able to adopt children. And the fact that they can currently adopt as ‘individuals’ perhaps needs to be addressed at the same time.
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August 22, 2009 1:15pm
Redbaiter

You’re just light years behind it all aren’t you Cerium.

AP and Seth Borenstein..?????

?????????

Pffft. Catch up you commie loon.

http://climatedepot.com/a/2546/Long-sad-history-of-AP-reporter-Seth-Borensteins-woeful-global-warming-reporting
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August 22, 2009 1:16pm
andrei

Cerium – you can learn all about the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation here.
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August 22, 2009 1:20pm
Inventory2

billyborker said “Personally, I’d be a whole lot happier if I never saw another Chinese face in NZ.”

Well billyborker – you’re showing your true colours today – glad to know that you’re not JUST a religious bigot 😉
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August 22, 2009 1:20pm
Cerium

Can you refute the National Climatic Data Center rather than attack the messenger RB? There are many other reports on the same data.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/green/?p=6693
And plenty more.
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August 22, 2009 1:23pm
Herman Poole

Cerium,

You just do not understand statistics do you. 1880 is the blink of an eye in earth history. Statistically there will be about a dozen temperature reocrds of various kinds set every year. Especially as we are still coming out of an ice age.

Observations of warming do not in any way prove anthropogenic climate catastrophe. They identify localised warming, which is an ongoing 10,000+ year trend. Just remember the Woolly Mammoths and Woolly Rhinos and realize why they aren’t around any more.

Last year was the coldest since 2000 by the way. Did CO2 drop or what?
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August 22, 2009 1:24pm
Patrick Starr

Inventory2 you have to remember – it’s only racist when the lefties say it is
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August 22, 2009 1:29pm
Cerium

Do you understand your point Herman? You say since 1880 isn’t long (since measurements started), then compare to 2008 to 2000.
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August 22, 2009 1:29pm
joeAverage

BILLYBORKER why be a nasty shithead on a nice sunny afternoon, go back to viewing REDTUBE , male with male sex clips . That might relax you and stop you being a total wanker right BILLYBONKER

[DPF: 20 demerits]
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August 22, 2009 1:30pm
Redbaiter

Before you get any kind of foothold in the discussion, you have to prove this lie to be the truth-

“Meteorologists blame a combination of a natural El Nino weather pattern on top of worsening manmade global warming.”

There are plenty of meteorologists who challenge the concept of man made global warming.

Borenstein is just another mainstream media leftist liar.
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August 22, 2009 1:31pm
Redbaiter

Hermann, its all the usual lies anyway.

Sure the north east water has been warmer, but its cooler in other places.

For example, Portland Maine also set a new record low for July Temperatures, see

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/13/record-cold-in-portland-maine-in-july/

and the warmth is actually due to the Gulf Stream coming closer to shore than it normally does.

So the question is- weather or climate? Borenstein’s useless article does not even address the real point.

And lastly, maybe you Cerium can find NOAA or NCDC press release or data table that has that 62.6 degrees mentioned in it. I can’t.
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August 22, 2009 1:42pm
Herman Poole

Cerium,

I don’t believe that 2008’s temperature on its own shows much at all. Just like I don’t think your ocean temperature shows much either whether or not it is true.
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August 22, 2009 1:47pm
wikiriwhis business

“So joe, do you believe there is no crime in China?

Crime happens everywhere, the biggest problem the tourism industry faces is not isolated incidences of crime, but dipshits (like you and Kerry prendergast) making a huge song and dance about.

Personally, I’d be a whole lot happier if I never saw another Chinese face in NZ.

[DPF: You boast about what a great parent you are. Does that extend to teaching your children to be racists like you are?]

Actually David, I’d prefer more Japanese. They’re democratic, capitalist and innovative.

I really suspect the huge influx of Chinese was because of the socialists greasing up China.
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August 22, 2009 1:48pm
paradigm

“Ever since the rush-of-blood decision to exclude Maori,”

Saw the editorial, was unimpressed. Essentially it just took for granted the “need Maori seats because the royal comission said we need Maori seats” line. Did not even mention the limited of the terms of reference for said comission made that a foregone conclusion. At least it accepted Act/Rodney Hide’s actions to be noble.

It is interesting, though, to ponder what Key will do now. Herald editor thinks Key’s initial reaction was a “rush of blood” one. I would be inclined to disagree: It seems likely that National would have considered its position on this issue given it will obviously cause some controversey, especially as they are co-alligned with the racist Maori Party. They then suffered all the Hikoi-ing over it and criticism in the MSM. It would be a waste of expended political capital to reverse on it now. I suspect National will pull a “Governor Grey”: act concilliatory, pay lip-service to Maori, token acknowlegment of mana etc, then sell essentially the original proposition (no Maori seats, but you can have an election over the proposition for Maori seats) as a compromise deal. Essentially what DPF keeps suggesting on this blog.
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August 22, 2009 1:51pm
wikiriwhis business

” see three chinese tourests were robbed at knife point by two maori, in the far north. How many tourist dollars will depart NZ as this robbery will be mentioned in China and Chinese will not come here. GOOD ONE BRO If it was up to me i would charge the dumb fucks with economic sabotage”

Good case for the return of nuclear warships.

You’ll never see a bunch of sailors getting hit round the head by yobbo’s. They’ll help tourism confidence and make Akld city attractive again.
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August 22, 2009 1:56pm
Cerium

“And lastly, maybe you Cerium can find NOAA or NCDC press release or data table that has that 62.6 degrees mentioned in it. I can’t.”

Linked from one of the above links.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090814_julyglobalstats.html
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August 22, 2009 1:59pm
grumpyoldhori

At 1% in the polls is Hide trying to suggest that he and his party ACT, home of the entitled one, have a mandate to reform local government in NZ ?

I notice that Hide goes on about waste but he has said bugger all about the entitled one wanting to trough, why would that be ?
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August 22, 2009 2:30pm
Redbaiter

Funny that. In my data base I had this stored for that page-

“The global ocean surface temperature for July 2009 was the warmest on record, 0.59°C (1.06°F) above the 20th century average of 16.4°C (61.5°F). This broke the previous July record set in 1998. The July ocean surface temperature departure from the long-term average equals June 2009 value, which was also a record.”

Now I see it says this-

“The global ocean surface temperature for July 2009 was the warmest on record, 1.06 degrees F (0.59 degree C) above the 20th century average of 61.5 degrees F (16.4 degrees C). This broke the previous July record set in 1998. The July ocean surface temperature departure of 1.06 degrees F from the long-term average equals last month’s value, which was also a record. ”

Obviously the conversions were transposed, and a correction was made.
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August 22, 2009 2:36pm
billyborker

[DPF: You boast about what a great parent you are. Does that extend to teaching your children to be racists like you are?]

My children are free to choose their own friends. They have also been brought up to be fearless in expressing an opinion, no matter who may throw labels at them.

For the record – I am opposed to any further Chinese immigration to NZ, and that is my right in a democracy. I may, if I wish, encourage others to oppose further Chinese immigration to NZ, and that, again, is my right in a democracy. You may label me “racist”, as is your right, but you do us both a disservice. It is not the Chinese race I dislike, it is Chinese cultural practices.

I believe that Australia had it right with the White Australia Policy, they were just clumsy in enforcing it. I agreed with Arther Caldwell when he said “Two Wongs don’t make a White.”.

New Zealand for the White Man.
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August 22, 2009 4:27pm
Bob100

Patrick Starr (2975) Vote: Add rating 7 Subtract rating 0 Says:
August 22nd, 2009 at 12:41 pm

This is a curious post on the watermelon party blog

“Methane is already seeping from Arctic seabed”
Saturday August 22nd, 2009 @ 7:26 am by frog
“This is now no longer a potential threat, but a proven reality. As the Arctic warms, methane hydrates long frozen beneath the surface are beginning to melt. Is this the tipping point? Probably not. But it does indicate that the possibility is not science fiction scaremongering, but science fact.”

Just a question that may show my ignorance but here goes.

Where did the methane originate from? I don’t think we can blame the fish so has it come from rotting vegetation? If that is the case then the area under the Arctic must at some stage been much warmer than it is now. Not many humans around at that point so we can’t blame human produced CO2.

bob.
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August 22, 2009 4:27pm
Steve

Global Warming – Climate Change.
I have not taken much notice of the scaremongering but I do have a question.
To have a Greenhouse effect, CO2 has to blanket the environment, but CO2 is heavier than air so how does this Greenhouse idea work?
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August 22, 2009 4:37pm
getstaffed

Steve – the science is settled !

You simply need to :-
(a) blindly believe,
(b) feel guilty,
(c) open your wallet.

There’s a good lad 🙂
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August 22, 2009 4:42pm
philu

crikey..!..here’s a curly one..for the deniers..

time magazine has gone all ‘collapsing/unsustainable-systems’ on yer arses..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/time-magazine%e2%80%98s-current-cover-story-wants-you-to-know-that-our-fossil-fueled-chemically-intensive-industrial-food-system-is-destined-to-fail/

(holy mainstream/acceptance-thinking batman..!..)..!

but hey..!..just go kneck some more burgers..!..eh..?

fucking hippies at time magazine..!..eh..?

what’s the world coming to..?

eh..?

answer:..a great big shitstorm is heading our way..

..on a multitude of fronts..

you fucken fools..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 22, 2009 4:43pm
backster

Bob:…Maybe its the fish farting which raises the questions how do we tax them, and will fisherman qualify for a tax credit for catching them?.

BillyBorker is a hardline socialist and is merely parroting the views of his role model Trev Mallard.
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August 22, 2009 4:54pm
Owen McShane

First, the Greenhouse effect is a misnomer because it does suggest that the CO2 forms a blanket over the earth rather like the glass roof in a greenhouse. But the property of CO2 which affects radiation aborption and re-radiation lies in the quantum mechanics of the molecule as a molecule. Many scientists are unhappy with the term Greenhouse gas because it leads to this confusion.
However, it does remind us that horticulturists pump CO2 into their genuine greenhouses up to 1000 ppm because it increased plant growth and productivity because the plants grow faster and are much healthier. Also the stomata do not have to open up to absorb the normally scarce supply of CO2 so the uptake of water is much reduced. You won’t read much about this from the panic merchants.

Now Ocean temperatures. Any of you who studies statistics and physics know the importance of the error term in any statement.
These statements about ocean temperatures have no error terms. Which means they are meaningless and the further back they go the less meaningful. For one thing we have only recently (since satellites) had any means of collecting data from a random sample of the oceans’s surface. Prior to that we were dependent on measurements from ships and these methods of collection have changed over the years. This is true of all our so called global temperatures – until recently they were not global.

Finally methane. Yes, where does it come from? Well there are oceans of methane on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn and they sure as hell are not the result of rotting vegetation. This simple fact and the massive amounts of methane under the ocean are one of the observations in favour of the abiotic theory of “fossil fuel”. Namely, with the exception of coal, they are not fossil fuel but are the result of the outgassing of hyrdocarbons locked into the planet at the time of its creation.

One branch of abiotic theory says that hydrocarbons continue to be produced by the high temperatures and pressures below the surface on the carbon and water etc. This theory is not very popular for obvious reasons. But watch this space. Freeman Dyson takes it seriously and the Russians (who first developed it) claim to have found major oil and gas deposits in areas indicated by the theory even though the fossil fuel theory said equally strongly that there would be nothing there.
Watch this space.
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August 22, 2009 5:16pm
philu

you call up the denying-fools..

and right on cue up pops mcshane..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 22, 2009 5:24pm
starboard

Personally, I’d be a whole lot happier if I never saw another Chinese face in NZ.

[DPF: You boast about what a great parent you are. Does that extend to teaching your children to be racists like you are?]

What a retard you are borker. Were your parents brother and sister?
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August 22, 2009 5:42pm
philu

yesterday..mexico legalised all drugs..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/mexico-follows-the-lead-of-portugaland-legalises-posession-of-all-drugs/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 22, 2009 5:50pm
Buggerlugs

Shots fired in Christchurch suburb
A christchurch man is helping police with their inquiries following reports of shots being fired inside…
D4J on the loose?

[DPF: Enough of that or demerits]
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August 22, 2009 5:53pm
Steve

Getstaffed at 4.42pm:
“Steve – the science is settled !

You simply need to :-
(a) blindly believe,
(b) feel guilty,
(c) open your wallet.

There’s a good lad ”

Now I dunno how to do abc so I guess someone will do it for me
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August 22, 2009 6:18pm
Patrick Starr

“yesterday..mexico legalised all drugs..”

WINZ may give you a one-way fare
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August 22, 2009 6:44pm
philu

afghanistan has the second highest infant mortality rate in the world..

..why are we going to add to that dismal total..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 22, 2009 7:09pm
John Ansell

billyborker said: “It is not the Chinese race I dislike, it is Chinese cultural practices.”

I have some experience of Chinese cultural practices, billy, sharing a home as I do with a Taiwanese wife and stepson.

And I’ve observed only two cultural practices that differ greatly from those of most Kiwis I know.

The first is the Buddhist tradition of regularly celebrating the lives of family members who have passed on. I think we could learn from that.

And the second Chinese cultural practice we could surely learn from is their approach to learning itself.

The high value Chinese parents (particularly mothers) place on the education of their young I find inspiring. It contrasts markedy with the hands-off attitude of the average ‘she’ll be right’ Kiwi parent.

As I’ve confessed to my wife, when I was at university I used to have a cheeky name for the first couple of pages of results that they posted on the noticeboards after exams (those marks from 100% down to about 80%).

I called them the Yellow Pages.

I meant it affectionately, but couldn’t help wondering whether these visitors (mostly from Malaysia on the Colombo Plan) were equipped with some genetic advantage that ‘we’ couldn’t hope to match.

Now I know differently. Their advantage is not so much genetic as maternal.

My wife, like her mother before her, simply insists that her son does everything in his power to make the most of his education. No excuses.

She pays dearly to send him to the best schools she can find, doesn’t think twice about bothering the teachers whenever problems arise, and stands up to daily teenage attempts to avoid homework and other activities that she considers more beneficial for his future than he does.

Because of her – and only because of her – he’s achieving highly at many things he would not have chosen had he been left to his own devices.

And my wife is very far from unique. All of her Taiwanese friends are exactly the same, with the result that all of their kids tend to outperform most of their Kiwi classmates. But really, it’s the mothers doing the outperforming.

So billyborker, I’m not sure which Chinese cultural practices so offend you, but when it comes to parenting I suggest the sooner we take a leaf out of the Asian book, the better for our country.
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August 22, 2009 8:08pm
Murray M

Yes John couldn’t agree more. The children of Asian descent will be the success stories in the future New Zealand. Historically it has been the Italians. Mediocrity and ignorance pretty much sums up the others.
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August 22, 2009 9:48pm
Patrick Starr

Cant Wayne Smith teach bloody Sivivatu how to catch FFS
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August 22, 2009 10:43pm
Hurf Durf

Mediocrity and ignorance pretty much sums up the others.

Viva socialismus!
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August 22, 2009 10:59pm
Glutaemus Maximus

From the Herald.

Coca Colas missing stock. $2m +

The accused.

Apisaloma Mauga, Malofou Mauga, Chris Beckett, Gasologa Tu’ulima, Charles Edmonds, Nga Tikaka and Brian Karaitiana each entered no plea to a charge of theft by a person in a special relationship.

Thieving Pikey nee Gypsy bastards. A total abuse of trust according to the Police. Well I just had some of the same from a Tokaloan.

Is there a genetic leaning towards theft in the PI’s? There is with the Travellers in Europe/UK/Ireland
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August 22, 2009 11:20pm
John Ansell

“The children of Asian descent will be the success stories in the future New Zealand. Historically it has been the Italians.”

Agree with the former.

Now I’m not trying to cast aspersions on the Italians (my other two sons are of Italian descent), but my general knowledge is deserting me on the subject of famous Italian New Zealanders – outside of Raffaele Abbate of Nicolini’s, my favourite chef.

Care to give some examples?
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August 22, 2009 11:25pm
John Ansell

Yay! Aussies too dumb to drop a goal when camped inside All Black 22 in final minutes – where have we seen that before?
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August 22, 2009 11:52pm
Bok

Just came back from the game. that was a total waste of time. Bring on the Boks
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August 23, 2009 3:54am

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