General Debate 20 August 2009

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wreck1080

Since they are gong to have seperate maori seats on the Auckland council, I think we should have a seperate co-prime minister.

The co-primeminister will be appointed by the tribal leaders.

And , if the prime-minister and co-prime minister disagree on any issue, they must fight to the death with the victor eating the loser.

That is just as silly as having racially appointed seats.
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August 20, 2009 7:58am
philu

‘industrial apocalypse’..?..anyone..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/is-there-any-point-in-fighting-to-stave-off-industrial-apocalypse/

The following is an exchange between two environmentaists..

.. Paul Kingsworth and George Monbiot ..over the question of how to approach the enormous threat posed by climate change and resource depletion.

The collapse of civilization will bring us a saner world, argues Paul Kingsnorth.

No, writes George Monbiot — we can’t let billions perish..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 20, 2009 8:02am
Pascal

And , if the prime-minister and co-prime minister disagree on any issue, they must fight to the death with the victor eating the loser.

I want the television rights to that. Series 7: The Contenders!
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August 20, 2009 8:07am
TripeWryter

Am I the only person in the DPF Bloggariat who wonders if TVNZ should be better known as Animal TV, or SPCA Bleat TV?
Last night I watched incredulously as TVNZ’s Close Up would have us believe that the killing (sorry, putting down, sorry, euthenaising) of six puppies in Invercargill was the top story of the day. Mark Sainsbury hand-wringing with Robyn Kippenberger from the SPCA. For Christ’s sake!!!
Last Sunday night TVNZ’s Sunday programme occupied itself with live sheep exports to Saudi Arabia (and when did ‘Sowdee’ become ‘Sa-oodee?), and then a few weeks ago was the infamous and notorious ‘ill-treated pigs’ propaganda, when TVNZ accepted holus-bolus the claims and doctored film of Mike King and a so-called animal rights group that has as its object the elimination and prohibition of farming animals for human consumption.
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August 20, 2009 8:15am
XChequer

I gotta topic.

A few of us were having a beer on Tuesday night and the issue of the person eating a dog was brought up. Someone said that that was fine to eat dog if it were part of their culture. I said that we don’t eat dog in New Zealand – it’s not part of OUR culture. This person then said we don’t have a culture per se; that infact we just have a collection of other cultures.

Do you think this is true?

And if not, how do we define a New Zealand culture?

This question has enormous implications for race relations in this country and affects topics such as Maori Representation on the Supercity council. Are we merely the sum of immigration – or do we truly stand for something nationally?

Are we a race in ourselves?

Kiwiblog posters; Yours please.

XChequer
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August 20, 2009 8:24am
Patrick Starr

part of OUR culture included many things, an example was lightly smacking your child when they were naughty…….. well that was before the lefties decided to undermine it
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August 20, 2009 8:27am
Cerium

We have a lot of different cultures. A variety of Maori urban and rural cultures. A number of ex-European and Pacific cultures. Auckland has plenty of variety, and is different to Wellington, Christchurch etc. Southland rural is distinct from Canterbury rural, is different to Taranaki rural. TV culture is different to internet culture.

There are some general national cultural tags, she’ll be right, number eight, tall poppy disdain, friendly and hospitable etc but there are plenty of exceptions.
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August 20, 2009 8:33am
Cerium

part of OUR culture included many things, an example was lightly smacking your child when they were naughty……

That was part of YOUR culture maybe, but there are plenty of variants to that too. I haven’t heard Kiwis referred to as “the light smacker of child tribe”. There has been more publicity on the “beat them to deathers”.
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August 20, 2009 8:37am
Glutaemus Maximus

Plastic Aussies, but better behaved?

Sorry, but I couldn’t resist it.

Go on hit me with it. I deserve it!
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August 20, 2009 8:39am
andrei

I think our culture is defined by the phrase “I am entitled to ……..”

It is used by large number of the citizenry from the most exalted – cabinet ministers both current and ex down to the most humble beneficiary as they slurp from the few productive Kiwis that remain.
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August 20, 2009 8:44am
Simon

The haves and the have nots Philu. If you / they are right there will be all out industrial war.

What is the Greens defense policy? I take it the Greens require rapid rearmament.
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August 20, 2009 8:48am
Cerium

Patrick, you pointed to something important about culture – it is common to assume our culture is OUR culture. But there are small differences even close to home. Every new couple find that they have differences to their cultures.

You want to use child discipline as an example? What about:

Let them run rioters
Devout no smackers
Occasionals
Light smackers only on the hand and bum (Patrick’s cultural perfection)
From a tap to a whackers
Clip around the ear-ers
Wooden spooners
Leather belters
Anything they can lay their hand on-ers.
A good hiding-ers
When you are pissed who carers
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August 20, 2009 8:50am
Patrick Starr

well you see there you go cerium. your view on what is OUR culture doesn’t include smacking a child, however the majority of Kiwis would disagree with you. That could put you in the same category as the Tongan who ate the dog. (a minority!)

you’re probably right in your previous comment though our base culture was typical western, finely blended with a traditional lifestyle that defines us. The 1/4 acre has now gone but owning a house, holidays at a campground, batch or similar, taking the kids to footy on saturday mornings, having a BBQ in the backyard with friends. A very typical western lifestyle, but unique in many ways
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August 20, 2009 8:50am
XChequer

Another question following up on the original one is: Is having a national culture really relevant in todays global society where the “Digital Age” and cheaper and more efficient travel has brought us together in ways unimaginable 100 years ago?

Is New Zealand, by virtue of it’s youth as a nation, actually ahead of the game in having a true patchwork-quilt of homogenized cultures rather than no true culture ourselves?
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August 20, 2009 8:52am
Banana Llama

Hmmm.

Most modern cultures are a mix of cultures from the past and present, look at the English language a proper bastard if ever there was one yet many cultures modify and adapt it for their own purpose just as cultures (Nations) before them used the Alphabet.

In the modern world we take American culture and adapt it for our own society’s purposes, just a way of imitating something that is better, dose that make us a bastard culture? yes of course, that dose not mean we don’t have our own culture though.
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August 20, 2009 8:54am
Cerium

“your view on what is OUR culture doesn’t include smacking a child”

You seem to have a culture of criticising without bothering to listen properly judging by this incorrect statement.
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August 20, 2009 8:55am
Patrick Starr

“Every new couple find that they have differences to their cultures”

exactly the point. OUR traditional culture has been so undermined by the minority anti western lefties (who seem to have a very big voice in the media) it is probably difficult for many ‘new couples’ to decide between traditional values, and leftie pressure though the MSM
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August 20, 2009 8:56am
Patrick Starr

“without bothering to listen properly judging by this incorrect statement”

OMG youre such a cock, what part of: “That was part of YOUR culture maybe” has you in agreement with my statement.
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August 20, 2009 8:59am
Cerium

“OUR traditional culture”

I don’t know what you are meaning by this. You seem to be wearing cultural blinkers. What is “typical western”? I remember playing cowboys and indians when I was a kid.

Did your great grandparents all share the same culture, and passed that on to each generation intact until it became corrupted by the media? Or have you held out and it is just everyone else’s culture that is corrupted?
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August 20, 2009 9:03am
Patrick Starr

Cerium, may I ask you a question. Are you a school teacher, or employed in the education sector?
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August 20, 2009 9:05am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/americans-serfs-ruled-by-oligarchs/

“..“Rapidly you are dividing into two classes–extreme rich and extreme poor.” .. “Brutus”

Americans think that they have “freedom and democracy” .. and that politicians are held accountable by elections.

The fact of the matter is that the US is ruled by powerful interest groups who control politicians with campaign contributions.

Our real rulers are an oligarchy of financial and military/security interests and AIPAC, which influences US foreign policy for the benefit of Israel.

Have a look at economic policy.

It is being run for the benefit of large financial concerns, such as Goldman Sachs.

It was the banks, not the millions of Americans who have lost homes, jobs, health insurance, and pensions, that received $700 billion in TARP funds.

The banks used this gift of capital to make more profits.

In the middle of the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, Goldman Sachs announced record second quarter profits ..

.. and large six-figure bonuses for every employee..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 20, 2009 9:14am
Cerium

No Patrick, never been a school teacher. I worked for a Polytechnic for a few years doing IT support, I also helped tutors who didn’t know a CPU from an ISA bus and did a bit of tutoring but I didn’t fit in with their culture. Most of my work has involved helping ordinary people use technology.
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August 20, 2009 9:18am
Patrick Starr

“did a bit of tutoring but I didn’t fit in with their culture”

oh really, so is it safe to assume you dont stay long if you feel you dont fit in?
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August 20, 2009 9:26am
philu

‘loaded-question-award’..(petty-division) should be struck for starr..

who can guess what starr will say next..?

“..me..!..me..!..i know..!

he’ll say ‘well..why don’t you just fuck off from here..?..then..?’

do i win..?..do i win..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 20, 2009 9:28am
Patrick Starr

why is that phool – dont you think cerium fits in here?
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August 20, 2009 9:36am
Cerium

“oh really, so is it safe to assume you dont stay long if you feel you dont fit in?”

Is that wishful thinking Patrick? You don’t think I fit in with what you think is THE Kiwiblog culture?
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August 20, 2009 9:41am
philu

no starr..it’s just that you are a one-trick-pony..

that’s all..

and as easy to read..as.. “..a..b..c..

.1..2..3..”

not the brightest rightie nutbar in the coven..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 20, 2009 9:41am
Patrick Starr

“You don’t think I fit in with what you think is THE Kiwiblog culture?”

is this paranoia or what? I just asked you a simple question

(it was your mate phool who suggested you didn’t fit in here)
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August 20, 2009 9:45am
Patrick Starr

actually phool, you could try and add to the discussion and give your views on what you believe is a typical kiwi culture?

(thats gotta be worth a laff)
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August 20, 2009 9:49am
philu

mm..!..is one-trick-pony-patrick the embodiment of ‘the kiwiblog culture’..?

that’d be kinda ‘sad’..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 20, 2009 9:51am
philu

i don’t engage in discussion with morons..i find it is a waste of time/energy..

i do laugh at them tho’..(very non-pc..i know..!

..but..whatyagonnado..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 20, 2009 9:53am
Cerium

“oh really, so is it safe to assume you dont stay long if you feel you dont fit in?”

Depends a lot on the circumstances. Unremarkably (probably like most people) I am more likely to stay somewhere longer if I feel I fit in.

“actually phool, you could try and add to the discussion and give your views on what you believe is a typical kiwi culture?”

You could try that too Patrick, there is a bit more to Kiwis than “typical western finely blended with a traditional lifestyle”, and what one thinks of child discipline.
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August 20, 2009 9:57am
joeAverage

i luv auckland school rugby (punishment) andy dalton style (thank god he isnt a auckland grammar oldboy)
6weeks given to the white boys
16 monthes to the brown boys
auckland rugby league is going to gain more players so GO MAG 🙂 kick arse in the final but dont fight if you are a brown boy as auckland grammar have better lawyers
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August 20, 2009 10:02am
Patrick Starr

“You could try that too Patrick”

actually cerium, if you look back you’ll see I was giving MY views before you attacked them.
BTW Third question (if you dont mind) Are you a green party supporter/member by any chance?
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August 20, 2009 10:06am
joeAverage

I see petrols going up 3c and i see gst could be going up to 15% but theres good news 🙂 things have dropped
The purchasing power of your income and your standard of living have dropped, but wait till you are taxed $30 a week per member of your family to pay for the great global warming myth, go john boy key rape and pillage us New Zealanders, we deserve it for voting clark in three times, PS the poor old pensioners on fixed incomes will REALLY struggle now, but im sure rich johnboy key thinks of our oldies, NOT
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August 20, 2009 10:12am
Pascal

Who signed us up for all this Global Warming mallarky? Wait. Sorry. It’s not warming now. It’s cooling. Or is it warming? I haven’t checked the headlines today.

Wasn’t it the Labour government, joeAverage?
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August 20, 2009 10:14am
PinkGina

Maybe I’m commenting on the wrong thread but irrespective of what the kiwi culture is, why would you give maori special seats on the auckland council? They do have the same voting rights as everyone else, dont they?
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August 20, 2009 10:16am
Cerium

“BTW Third question (if you dont mind) Are you a green party supporter/member by any chance?”

I’ve never been a member or involved in any way with any party, not likely to be.
Sometimes one of my votes has been green, I’d like to see them keep a minority presence in parliament.
I’d also like to see Act keep a minority presence in parliament.
I have also cast blue and red (and other) votes.
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August 20, 2009 10:33am
s.russell

Kiwi culture is whatever most people think it is. And most people think a part of Kiwi culture is tolerance and respect for other cultures, such as Tongan.
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August 20, 2009 10:38am
Glutaemus Maximus

But philu, didn’t you say a couple of days ago that you wanted a pony?

One trick or not. You and Starr Blaze are surely made for each other?

Or not?
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August 20, 2009 10:39am
joeAverage

keys(i luv everyone) bought into the weather myth so expect your living standards to plummit. 🙁
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August 20, 2009 11:09am
oxymoron

We *do* have a culture. Each of us live it every day. Although if you are in New Zealand it’s hard to know what it is. It’s like our accent on a larger scale. Take any other English speaking country, they speak English but it’s different to how we speak it. Stay overseas for a while and you will even concur the Aussies are right to say kiwis say “fush and chups”. Our culture is probably one of things you don’t notice unless it’s not there. Even with countries with similar backgrounds we sometimes have a different twist on the same thing. And there are those subtle things like “bring a plate” means bring some food to share. That’s merely one example of what overseas people learn about our culture.
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August 20, 2009 11:17am
Chthoniid

As a quick and dirty label when overseas, I describe NZ as being the most Polynesian Western country in the world.
We have adopted a lot of Maori loan-words, integrated Maori protocols into official events etc.

I’m not sure where the food taboos come from.
We used to eat pet lambs and calves, dog was eaten by the Maori, we will eat wild pig, deer, huhu grubs and there’s still a bag limit on pukeko. We used to eat whale (there are still people from the 60s who remember eating whale meat).
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August 20, 2009 11:31am
Brian Smaller

luv auckland school rugby (punishment) andy dalton style (thank god he isnt a auckland grammar oldboy)
6weeks given to the white boys
16 monthes to the brown boys

I just watched the video of the brawl. Given that this is 1st XV open weight rugby it looked to me like a lot of brown boys on both sides. Spurious argument joeAverage.
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August 20, 2009 11:42am
Inventory2

Quite so Brian – any suggestion that the AGS First XV is a “white” team is but an urban myth. All the major colleges in Auckland seem to have a number of places reserved for Polynesian rugby players.
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August 20, 2009 11:48am
Cerium

Some aspects of our cultures have changed rapidly over the last generation or two. Eg wine, restaurants – it wasn’t long you couldn’t legally serve wine in restaurants. And it took a decade or two before you could go to a flash restaurant without someone inevitably asking for steak eggs and chips. Cafe culture has changed. The only pasta I had as a kid was one brand of canned. I remember when the first fish and chips became available in the town I lived near.

Even the bbq as it is now is quite recent. We used to cook sausages on sticks over an open fire and wrap spuds in tin foil and chuck them in the embers. Then came charcoal bbqs. Does anyone use them any more?

One of my daughters is getting married next year and wants a hangi to impress a few foreigners (from the UK). I never saw or tried a hangi until after I left school.

Cultures always change, evolve, blend and clash. Much faster now populations are much more mobile.
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August 20, 2009 11:53am
shady

And yet another toddler in hospital through violence. Does anyone know whether girls or boys are more affected by serious assault?

Edit: This seems to be part of the culture of a minority – but has implications on the majority.
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August 20, 2009 12:18pm
Inventory2

For anyone who’s interested, we’ve blogged about our reasons for voting the way we have in the S59 referendum

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/08/why-we-voted-no.html
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August 20, 2009 12:36pm
big bruv

Sir Roger’s bill to abolish compulsory membership of student unions has been pulled from the ballot, this should kick off a shit storm…bring it on!
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August 20, 2009 12:41pm
Chthoniid

@big bruv

Sir Roger’s bill to abolish compulsory membership of student unions has been pulled from the ballot, this should kick off a shit storm…bring it on!

To shamelessly plagiarise Cptn Picard “Make it so”.
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August 20, 2009 12:57pm
nickb

“Sir Roger’s bill to abolish compulsory membership of student unions has been pulled from the ballot, this should kick off a shit storm…bring it on!”

Fuckin excellent! Have you got a link bruv? Or is it on parliament website?

Can’t fucken WAIT to see all the little commies raving about this in the student magazines. Fuck off, why should I have to pay $100 a year to fund communist stealing unions.
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August 20, 2009 1:14pm
nickb

This is really going to be an acid test for the Nats for me. I have to say, if they vote against it, they will lose my vote permanently
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August 20, 2009 1:16pm
Patrick Starr

“One of my daughters is getting married next year and wants a hangi to impress a few foreigners (from the UK).”

I trust you’ll show them how accepting you are and mix maori cooking methods with Tongan ingredients?
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August 20, 2009 1:46pm
big bruv

““One of my daughters is getting married next year and wants a hangi to impress a few foreigners (from the UK).”

Bloody hell!, if I wanted to impress somebody the last thing I would offer them is a hangi.

Hangi food is disgusting.
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August 20, 2009 2:02pm
Cerium

Like any sort of cooking there are good hangis, mediocre hangis and bad hangis. We will have a bbq on the side. Own garden salad and fruit.

And Patrick, I’m not keen on mouldy bananas. But we would likely have a few kumara. There is a Scottish connection, but unrelated to that I ate my first haggis this year (in NZ). It was ok, and so was the whiskey. Not long ago I tried my first kava, quite liked it. I was just (this week) given a pizza stone for a present. How multicultural some of us have become.
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August 20, 2009 2:09pm
joeAverage

Darn ANOTHER baby has been bashed to death, what can we all say, its a growth industry a disgusting shamefull growth industry
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August 20, 2009 2:48pm
stayathomemum

“And yet another toddler in hospital through violence”

Big concern this – seems to be happening on a weekly basis now.
Sue Bradford claimed her bill would reduce toddler deaths, but since it has been introduced they seem to becoming frighteningly more common.
Maybe Sue it is time to admit you were wrong.
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August 20, 2009 2:55pm
Ryan Sproull

Sue Bradford claimed her bill would reduce toddler deaths, but since it has been introduced they seem to becoming frighteningly more common.

None of them will be by repeat offenders who got off the first time by claiming reasonable force, which is the only direct effect it could have had.
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August 20, 2009 2:59pm
WraithX

Cerium: “Then came charcoal bbqs. Does anyone use them any more?”

I have a charcoal BBQ and it is vastly superior to gas. You get the lovely smokey taste that is near impossible with gas (short of throwing pieces of wood on the burners). I would never ever use a gas BBQ. I also don’t own a microwave and would never buy one or use one.
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August 20, 2009 3:05pm
village idiot

Doing a double-take!!!
I thought the scourge of violence done to toddlers was Labours fault! I’ve heard it said so many times over the past 9 years, but whats this??? More and more of it under National’s watch!! National does nothing to protect our children!!
National, the party of shame? National, gutless when it comes to our young ones?? Stayathomemum even points out that violence against toddlers is becoming more common!! This is a NATIONAL disgrace!!
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August 20, 2009 3:17pm
wreck1080

Village idiot, you are mostly wrong. I apportion most of the blame to labouresque policies and MMP.

National cannot fix labours many mistakes, due to MMP. It national do the right thing, they will be booted out at the next election.

Just you wait, now that we no longer discipline our children we are on the cusp of a youth violence and crime tidal wave.
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August 20, 2009 3:33pm
philu

“..Just you wait, now that we no longer discipline our children we are on the cusp of a youth violence and crime tidal wave..”

yep..!..my boys’ 14..never been hit..

..now just a seething mass of ‘violence/crime wave’..just waiting to explode..

btw..did you ever finish that phd dissertation..on mindless drivel..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 20, 2009 4:47pm
Simeon

Its the last day to send your vote away for the referendum.

Needs to be in the mail by tonight !
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August 20, 2009 5:04pm
jarbury

Does DPF realise that his blog is advertising Phil Twyford’s “Not Yours to Sell” campaign?
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August 20, 2009 5:11pm
Rex Widerstrom

big bruv opines:

Hangi food is disgusting.

Then you’ve never had a good one, bruv. Which doesn’t surprise me as many people that do them haven’t a clue. I figured I knew how to do one too, till I was taught by my former partner’s grandfather. None of this slushy mush and grey, steamed meat that’s dragged out of many a pit.

Just roast, flavoursome meat and potatos and perfectly steamed veges, but with that unique hangi flavour. I went to the Waitangi Day celebrations over here this year and the queue for the hangi stretched across the park. The wait was so long I gave up hungry, and consoled myself that it probably wasn’t done right anyway.

If I ever get back to NZ I can see I’ll have to organise a Kiwiblog hangi 😀
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August 20, 2009 5:43pm
starboard

yep..!..my boys’ 14..never been hit..

..now just a seething mass of ‘violence/crime wave’..just waiting to explode..

..I bet whore…is he going to become an armed robber like his daddy was..?? eh ?
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August 20, 2009 7:24pm
Patrick Starr

geez Rex, I’ve been to hundreds of hangis – but I have to agree with BB. IMO a hangi is the quickest way to turn perfectly good food into a pile of crap. Why on earth would you bother cooking like cavemen ?
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August 20, 2009 7:25pm
Steve

Seeing as this is General Debate and there aint a lot of debating, I thought about the PC brigade.
Fuken wankers they are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPSVLfUazxE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmKzLkdMbg0
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August 20, 2009 7:32pm
Viking2

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/digital-life/cartech/driven-to-distraction-by-our-gadgets-20090819-ep9u.html?page=1

Driven to distraction by our gadgets
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August 20, 2009 8:13pm
philu

with yr favourite guest blogger poll..

..why no ‘none’ option..?

why no ‘worst’ option..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 20, 2009 9:15pm
Kapital

[deleted by DPF and 100 demerits]
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August 20, 2009 11:03pm

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Croaking Cassandra
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

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