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August 19, 2009 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 19 August 2009

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terry

Dollars and secrets Part III

How much ratepayer and taxpayer money does the Whangarei District Council Mayor really receive…?

Section 3(3) (b) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968 states

Where a person is concerned or interested in any contract solely by reason of being concerned or interested in any subcontract relating thereto, the provisions of this section shall, with the necessary modifications, apply to him as if references in this section to the amount payable by or on behalf of the local authority in respect of a contract were references to the amount payable by or on behalf of the contractor in respect of the subcontract:

Section 3(3) (a) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968 states

No person shall be disqualified under this section by virtue of his being concerned or interested in any contract made in any special case with the prior approval of the Audit Office on the application of the local authority. In any such special case the Audit Office may authorise the payment and receipt of such amount as it thinks fit:

Has the Whangarei District Council made an application on behalf of the Mayor Stanely G A Semenoff to the Audit Office under section 3(3) (a) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968, and if so what amount of payments has the Audit Office authorised?

Section 3(3) (aa) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968 states

A person shall be deemed not to have been disqualified by virtue of his being concerned or interested in any contract made in any special case where, on the application of the local authority, the subsequent approval of the Audit Office is obtained; which approval shall be given only if the Audit Office is satisfied that—

(i) There is a sufficient special reason why prior approval was not obtained under paragraph (a) of this subsection; and

(ii) Prior approval would have been obtained under paragraph (a) of this subsection if that approval had been sought:

Has the Whangarei District Council made an application on behalf of the Mayor Stanely G A Semenoff to the Audit Office under section 3 (3)(aa) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968?

If the Audit Office has given approval to the Whangarei District Council Mayor Stanley G A Semenoff under section 3 (3)(aa) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968, what was the sufficient special reason why prior approval was not obtained?

Section 3(1) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968 states

Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, no person shall be capable of being elected as or appointed to be or of being a member of a local authority or of any committee of a local authority, if the total of all payments made or to be made by or on behalf of the local authority in respect of all contracts made by it in which that person is concerned or interested exceeds $25,000 in any financial year.

The Whangarei District Council (WDC) Mayor Stanely G A Semenoff, in his Register of Interests maintained by the WDC lists as suppliers of services to Council, Fulton Hogan Ltd, Downer EDI Ltd, Winstones Quarry Ltd, and Transfield Services Ltd as clients of Stan Semenoff Transport Ltd. These companies receive millions of dollars worth of WDC contracts, and Stan Semenoff Transport is a sub contractor to such contracts.

Section 3(2) of the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968 states

For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a member of a local authority or of a committee thereof shall be deemed to be concerned or interested in a contract made by a local authority with an incorporated company, if—

(a) The member or his spouse or partner singly or between them own, whether directly or through a nominee, 10 percent or more of the issued capital of the company or of any other company controlling that company; or

The company Stan Semenoff Transport Ltd (SSTL) was incorporated on 8 July 1980, the sole current director of SSTL is Stanely G A Semenoff appointed on 1 March 1990. The company SSTL has a total of 118,000 shares, while Stanely G A Semenoff holds 117,941 shares.
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August 19, 2009 8:01am
wreck1080

Yawn, executive summary please….
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August 19, 2009 8:13am
mickysavage

So 6 members of Cabinet travel to Australia for a “meeting” but get to watch the All Blacks play against Australia.

And a new allegation surfaces about Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi’s business affairs and the allegation that he offered jobs that were not there.

What is that word starting with C?
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August 19, 2009 8:14am
Ferdinand

Radio New Zealand is claiming National’s brand new President is being pressured to resign. WTF?
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August 19, 2009 8:15am
philu

older women should smoke cannabis..

30% of them get osteoporosis..(and 12% of men..)

and cannabis has just been proven to stop the development of osteoporosis..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/cannabis-is-good-for-older-peoples-bonesit-stops-the-development-of-osteoporosiswhich-effects-30-of-womenand-12-of-men/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 8:17am
Swiftman the infidel

What a clever idea fool.

Cure osteoporosis and die of lung cancer instead.

You really are a prize winning self-abuser.
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August 19, 2009 8:21am
andrei

What a clever idea fool.

Cure osteoporosis and die of lung cancer instead.

Well you are going to die of something one way or another – you pays your money and you take your chances.
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August 19, 2009 8:25am
Auberon

terry, were parts I and II equally difficult to follow?
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August 19, 2009 8:25am
philu

or eat it..or drink it..bake it in a cake..w.h.y..eh swifty..?

aside from pot smoke not causing lung cancer..

..(do you need the links..?..)

surely the ‘scientific-proof’ that it prevents what effects 30% of older women..

is the ‘news’ in this one..?

you’d think..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 8:28am
Glutaemus Maximus

So what was it Philu?

In those good old days.

Crack Coke up!

And Vodka down?

Lashings of Ginger Beer?

You have obviously had a few mental issues along the way.

Primarily an inability to understand why you are so reviled.

Still in the top rankings for Alexa as well as Technorati?

Does it get boring on your own?
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August 19, 2009 8:29am
Cerium

# Redbaiter August 19th, 2009 at 1:28 am: “Its just so good to know I can piss him off that much.”

Is that a sign of success, what you strive for? To antagonise, make people angry? Your name badge is your driving ambition? There is one person here you consistently seem to succeed in making very angry. Yourself. Is that what you really want, to be a sad angry old man? And try and drag a few others down with you?
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August 19, 2009 8:32am
TripeWryter

Winston Peters still has friends. This is from an editorial in the Gisborne Herald yesterday …

New Zealand First in the black and it looks like Winston’s back
Opinion
You can’t keep a good man down! That’s what New Zealand First supporters are saying these days. And the good man is none other than their battle-hardened, veteran campaigner Winston Peters.

New Zealand First is expected to re-commit itself to Winston’s continuing leadership at a closed meeting of electorate representatives in Hamilton on August 29.

Unlike the party’s traditional conventions it will be closed to the media, but with a joint press statement at the conclusion from Mr Peters and party president George Groombridge.

“We’ve got nothing to hide,” Mr Groombridge told The Gisborne Herald. “But it’s a meeting of electorates rather than a full-blown convention.”

He said this would involve reports from each electorate and a rundown from the party’s board on re-framing and re-marketing the party.

Mr Groombridge faces one contender for his presidency, but there is no suggestion of Mr Peters being challenged for his leadership or relinquishing it.

The party’s constitution requires the leadership to be decided by its parliamentary caucus, but has been voided by the loss of all its seats in the election.

In this situation, Mr Groombridge said the board had reaffirmed Mr Peter’s position but needed to take this to the meeting for confirmation.

He said membership had held up surprisingly well, as evidenced by a very positive response to renewal forms through the electorate organisations and further confirmed by a telephone link-up earlier this week.

There had also been a “marvellous” response on funding.

“I can say with absolute confidence that we are in the black. Changes to the electoral boundaries which wiped out one or two of our electorate organisations have enabled us to pull back finances they had been sitting on.

Other parties in Parliament are divided on whether New Zealand First is capable of making a comeback. It won’t be easy but if anyone can produce the necessary magic, it is Winston Peters.
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August 19, 2009 8:33am
Herman Poole

Noone cares Cerium, give it a rest.
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August 19, 2009 8:34am
philu

(psstt..!!..cerium..!..)

here is the really scary bit…he isn’t ‘old’..

he is just a old-man/mind..in a young mans body..

spooky..!

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 8:36am
terry

Dollars and secrets Part I

Local National Minister Phil Heatley was exposed as receiving over $86,000 a year from entitlements. The taxpayer pays $53,338 for an apartment in Wellington, while he rents out his own private apartment in Wellington to another National MP for $18,000, and owns 2 houses in Whangarei, one of which he rents and receives around $15,000.

National Minister Judith Collins also rents out her own private apartment in Wellington to another National MP, while receiving around a $46,000 taxpayer subsidy.

When questioned which National MP she rented her private apartment to she replied “I won’t breach other people’s privacy”. Yet National Minster Paula Bennett has no problems breaching people’s privacy, a position supported by National PM John Key. However John Key had earlier claimed privacy as the reason for not telling the public why he sacked National Minister Richard Worth?

Further Whangarei Mayor Stan Semenoff a well known National supporter not only collects compensation as mayor, but his business interests are subcontractors of council contracts.

How much ratepayer and taxpayer money does the Mayor really receive?
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August 19, 2009 8:37am
terry

Dollars and secrets Part II

In the Mayor Stan Semenoff’s response to my letter he stated “My businesses do not receive ratepayer or tax payer money.”

That statement made by the Mayor is incorrect and misleading. In his WDC Register of Interests his business Stan Semenoff Transport Ltd is listed as a sub contractor of council services to Transfield Services Ltd, Fulton Hogan Ltd, Downer EDI Ltd, and Winstones Quarries Ltd.

These companies receive millions of dollars worth of contracts from the WDC, which Stan Semenoff Transport Ltd is a sub contractor to these same companies.

The Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968 section 2(1) states,

“Subcontract, in relation to any contract made by a local authority, means a subcontract made with the contractor under that contract, or with another subcontractor, to do any work or perform any service or supply any goods or do any other act to which the head contract relates; and includes any subsidiary transaction relating to any such contract or subcontract; and subcontractor has a corresponding meaning.”

I ask the Mayor once again, how much ratepayer and taxpayer money does the Mayor Stan Semenoff really receive?
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August 19, 2009 8:37am
wikiriwhis business

AS long as bullying fossils like Jim Anderton are still around there will never be medicinal marijuana.

the oldies will have to suffer and suffer

Andeton also baned hemp in clothes design

He put a tax on Sherry blaming it on youth drunkedness and dissed a long establishd company that produced it

Never hear him say a word against Lion or DB.

I will say he had a go at the petrol companies…. for five seconds. He obviously got the round up and backed down.

But its ignorance like Anderton that keeps innovation and industry locked and secured in this country.

some one asked why we never see business role models in this country

Look under A for Anderton.

Also , I just found out $2 shops aren’t allowed to sell sweets any more.

Obviously chocolate is going to be considered a narcotic shortly.

Are the people of this country going to let chocolate become a black market substance.

Are parents going to be prosecuted for giving their children chocolate.

Let’s just hope the Greens and Liarbour are recognised and villified for their fascism
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August 19, 2009 8:43am
shady

Terry – you are a prize idiot – politely – go away and tell someone who cares!
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August 19, 2009 8:45am
philu

and this is really funny..(but violent..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/family-guy-mocks-the-office-in-emmy-ad-videowarningcontains-graphic-violence/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 8:46am
senzafine

Phool. Smoking weed may not increase your chances of getting lung cancer, however:

ScienceDaily (Jan. 27, 2008) — A new study finds that the development of bullous lung disease occurs in marijuana smokers approximately 20 years earlier than tobacco smokers.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123104017.htm

Fact is, smoking lots of weed is bad for you.
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August 19, 2009 8:48am
senzafine

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2762480/Making-chips-with-DNA

This technology is fascinating and likely to cause some heated debate.
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August 19, 2009 8:52am
Cerium

“Prime Minister John Key says wealthy people who are legally manipulating their financial affairs to ensure they benefit from Working for Families are “rorting the system” in a way that is unfair on other taxpayers.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10591703

Good on him.
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August 19, 2009 8:54am
terry

shady whats my prize? some national people holding mr fields hand in his new to be soon residence….?
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August 19, 2009 8:55am
philu

i did say snzadine..that you can eat/drink/w.h.y..if smoking it turns you off..

(and re yr 20 yrs earlier ‘claim’..

do the maths..!

those 30% of women in their 40-50-60’s..who will definitely develop osteoporosis..

..may well consider the osteoporosis-prevention to be a much more powerful argument..

..but that is their call..i guess..

..all i’m advocating is freedom of choice..

..i thought you righties were ‘big’ on that..

..eh..?

but not really ..eh..?

what you want is our freedom to follow your choices..

eh..?

not quite the same thing..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 9:04am
Auberon

terry, you really are a gold plated moron. Take it to the Auditor General and the Ombudsman. I hope you’ll be man enough to come back and publish their responses to you.
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August 19, 2009 9:07am
bobux

Local National Minister Phil Heatley was exposed as receiving over $86,000 a year from entitlements. The taxpayer pays $53,338 for an apartment in Wellington, while he rents out his own private apartment in Wellington to another National MP for $18,000, and owns 2 houses in Whangarei, one of which he rents and receives around $15,000.

Terry

How does privately owning a house in Whangarei and renting it count as an ‘entitlement’? Strange you didn’t notice this in relation to the four or five houses that Helen Clark owns?

And hasn’t Labour spent the past fortnight attacking Bill English for NOT renting out his private house in Wellington, and moving into ministerial accommodation?
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August 19, 2009 9:14am
bobux

Strong contender for ‘Understatement of the Year’.

Mr Theobald has received a letter from human resources head Patrick Crawford.

In it, Mr Crawford said: “Information has come to my attention which indicates that you may have intentionally driven a car through Inland Revenue’s Christchurch building … I am concerned that your conduct may be inconsistent with the Code of Conduct.”

Stuff carries a picture of the offending IRD employee, surrounded by shattered glass, car wedged into the building behind him. Probably no longer in the running for Employee of the Month.
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August 19, 2009 9:18am
philu

and while we are at it..can i remind you of ‘the hippie-effect’..

..this is what researchers into alzheimers disease call the phenomenon that heavy users of cannabis during the 60’s-70′..

are not..as a rule..coming down with alzheimers..

they have been unable to find any ‘explaination’ yet for this..

..but it is..as they say..’exciting’..

and could point to a future vaccinne..(?) against alzheimers..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 9:19am
dime

hey micky – lets just hope john key isnt running late! he may have to follow the precedent set by Helen Clark! he will have to order the police to speed to the game at 180km/h!

then when there are complaints, he will have to start bring out excuses!

such gems as “i dont know how fast we were going”

“i was looking out the window, it didnt look like we were going that fast”

“i was busy reading and didnt notice how fast we were going”

then let the cops get nailed in court.
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August 19, 2009 9:22am
philu

wow..!..thumbs-down for ‘family guy’ link..

do they just hate the show..?

or is this the involuntary-twitch-factor in action..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 9:22am
Brian Smaller

What is that word starting with C?

Clarkism.
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August 19, 2009 9:23am
terry

Auberon

it has been sent to the auditor general and i will publish responses, ive tried to get the required information myself but the mayor and council have been unhelpful…

This is a response from one of the councillors on the issue

“I’d be interested to know if he has created a conflict of interest, as he has
been walking a very striaght line at the moment, not sure how he has been doing
that actually.

If he did breach the ACT then he could be removed from office, but I’d say that
Kahu or Warrick would fill in for him, as the election is so close.”

it may be a learning experience for the council and me….

maybe phil healty and bill english have gave him some advice when i saw them coming out of his office.

what party does the alleged wife beater come from….?
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August 19, 2009 9:26am
Inventory2

@ bobux – indeed. I reckon the HR Manager could have got away with a three-worded letter – Don’t Come Monday!!!
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August 19, 2009 9:28am
terry

bobux

“Terry

How does privately owning a house in Whangarei and renting it count as an ‘entitlement’? Strange you didn’t notice this in relation to the four or five houses that Helen Clark owns?”

it wasnt the head news item on tv3 or on the front page of the paper..
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August 19, 2009 9:34am
jcuknz

All medication has side effects, so it should be up to the patient to decide what they accept/use. Quality of life versus length is an important consideration. Fortuneately I have yet to need to make the choice but I think quality, as determined by me the patient, should be the guiding principle. So using cannabis for medical reasons is acceptable to me, and should be legal at any age becuase sickness strikes the young as well as the old..
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August 19, 2009 9:35am
Kris K

And all this talk of raising the driving age.

Rather than raise the age from 15 to 17 why not do the following:
• In a similar way that motor cycle licensees are limited to 250cc for a period we should limit new car licensees to say 80kW [this better addresses turbo and supercharged engines] for say 2 years from getting their full license.
• Raise the drinking age back to 20.
• Zero alcohol count for drivers 20 and under.

Heck, my first car was an 1100 mk1 Ford Escort ~40kW.
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August 19, 2009 9:47am
Auberon

Yeah terry, it wasn’t the lead on tv3 news because Labour didn’t shed any sunlight on the arrangements, National did. Now, like the housing allowance rules or not, find someone who was breaking them and then come back to us.
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August 19, 2009 9:50am
Ryan Sproull

Not bad ideas, Kris. Isn’t there already a zero alcohol count for drivers 20 and under?
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August 19, 2009 9:51am
Kris K

I think you’re correct there Ryan. I just re-stated it to parallel my proposed raising of the drinking age back to 20.
I have never understood why there wasn’t a kW limit put in place – especially with the ready access to turbo and supercharged cars. Just seems common sense.
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August 19, 2009 10:10am
bobux

Terry

it wasnt the head news item on tv3 or on the front page of the paper..

Sorry, but I don’t understand your response. Does rent on a private property magically transform to an ‘entitlement’ when publicised?

Can you explain further?
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August 19, 2009 10:11am
terry

bobox

when it is payed by taxpayer funds my boy…?
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August 19, 2009 10:17am
Ryan Sproull

I think you’re correct there Ryan. I just re-stated it to parallel my proposed raising of the drinking age back to 20.
I have never understood why there wasn’t a kW limit put in place – especially with the ready access to turbo and supercharged cars. Just seems common sense.

Yeah, following the same reasoning as with motorcycles. Get used to moving around a chunk of metal before getting given a super weapon on wheels. I agree.
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August 19, 2009 10:18am
bobux

Terry

So the owner of the building where I work receives an ‘entitlement’ because it is leased to a government department.

Presumably if we (the department) moved out and a private sector tenent moved in, the ‘entitlement’ wouild magically transform into ‘rent’.

Gosh Sherlock – stun me with some more revelations.
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August 19, 2009 10:22am
Owen McShane

Do you see that the Environment court has declined the new town development in Rodney because
“the ARC has been diligent in keeping development within the MUL”. See Herald. See page A7.

So we are in a recession and want to get out of it?

You would not think so. This kind of decision (reported in NBR too) by the Environment Court (one of many) makes sure we have a shortage of housing – and that’s several thousand jobs down the tubes too. There are some incredibly selfish people out there. And they wonder why their children are leaving the country.

It’s time to change Part 2 of the RMA so that we can get the economy moving again. But Nick Smith has said there will be no changes to Part 2 (the purposed and principles of the Act) so things will not change.

From the NBR ON LINE

Environment Court rejects 460ha Waimauku Estate development
Jazial Crossley | Tuesday August 18 2009 – 12:40pm

A proposed development that would have housed triple the number of people already based in Waimauku has been rejected by the Environment Court, leaving the developers unsure what the site’s future will be.

The development was first proposed by Rick Martin’s company Cornerstone, which built Orewa’s Nautilus apartments and the Sentinel in Takapuna.

Cornerstone sold the 460ha section to Malory Corporation last year.

With 1,375 properties the subdivision proposed for the site aimed to house up to 3000 people, when the current population of Waimauku is only 930.

The proposal for the subdivision was rejected by Rodney District Council in September 2008 because it was considered inconsistent with the area’s Structure Plan which outlined only limited growth in the area.

Say four jobs per house on site and a multiplier of six to seven – that’s about 12,000 jobs?

The objectors probably all benefited from affordable housing, and even subsidies through Housing Corporation loans and Capitalised Family benefit, but mainly from a regime which allowed supply to meet demand.
Now “rural” character trumps housing, jobs and economic development. (and it’s by railway lines and everything the planners normally love.)

Then there is the $300 million dollars worth of gold in the South Island which will sit in the ground because DoC will not allow the one km track needed to get access to get to it.

So we can’t export our way of it either.
We are not serious.

However, we are building cycle lanes.
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August 19, 2009 10:26am
Rakaia George

KrisK – the problem with your 80kW limit is that power isn’t all about speed, a Toyota Hilux (ie a typical farm ute that a youngster might need to drive) is 126kW. Having said that though, specific licence exceptions to allow someone to drive a farm vehicle wouldn’t be rocket science.

My personal feeling, as someone who rides a motorbike, is that the roads would be a safer place if everyone had to spend time on two wheels being vulnerable before they got to take charge of a car…
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August 19, 2009 10:34am
philu

plough up the golf-courses…

and fill them up with parks/eco-state-housing..

(as in neutral-enviro-impact..)

the rich white mans sport has far more than its’ share of our city..

..(and always in prime sites..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 10:37am
Rakaia George

What’s eco-state-housing? A state house with a dope plantation in the back yard?
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August 19, 2009 10:42am
Doc

I tend to agree with Rakaia George. Having ridden motorcycles for several years before ‘converting’ to driving (and eventually racing) cars, I can’t stress enough how much of a benefit it was in terms of situational awareness, anticipation, and defensive driving. Being on the roads without crumple zones, seatbelts, airbags etc really is one of the ultimate forms of “self responsibility”, and you learn to ride (drive) accordingly.

Regarding KW limits for learners – the problem is enforcement. How do you stop learners driving dad’s V8? Do you require that all cars are dyno tested for power output and ‘officially’ recorded as part of a WoF? How would you combat ‘boy racers’ artificially limiting their vehicle’s power output for the test? (Eg. By way of restrictors (or even rev limiters) that can readily be reversed)

And, of course, you can get up sufficient speed to kill yourself on a pushbike… it’s not about peak power output at all, it’s about driving to the conditions. You simply can’t regulate that – you have to teach it.
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August 19, 2009 10:43am
Inventory2

Phillip Ure said “plough up the golf-courses…

and fill them up with parks/eco-state-housing..

(as in neutral-enviro-impact..)

the rich white mans sport has far more than its’ share of our city..

..(and always in prime sites..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)”

Now look here Phil! I’ve pretty much tolerated your rantings and ravings up until now, even the fact that you have chosen to live a parasitic lifestyle. But once you start attacking golf, you will make an enemy of me for life 🙂
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August 19, 2009 10:44am
philu

not attacking golf..

there will still be plenty of places left to play..

we are over-supplied with golf courses..

plus falling numbers playing the game..

you know that..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 10:47am
philu

we could guarantee a mini-golf course in each re-development..

..would that make the idea more palatable/assuage yr loss..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 10:51am
Repton

• In a similar way that motor cycle licensees are limited to 250cc for a period we should limit new car licensees to say 80kW [this better addresses turbo and supercharged engines] for say 2 years from getting their full license.

I have a serious question: If you exclude farm and tradesman vehicles, under what circumstances do you need a car with a power output of more than 80kW? What driving situations does it help with?
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August 19, 2009 11:02am
Brian Smaller

as in neutral-enviro-impact..)

the rich white mans sport has far more than its’ share of our city..

The latest winner of a major was Korean, the runner up black. NZs last big winner is a Maori. I forgot – they are token players to assuage our guilt.

Golf is enjoyed by players of all stripes at clubs and courses they can afford to play at. Where I go ( a 9-hole course), jandals and shorts are di rigeur in summer.
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August 19, 2009 11:05am
andrei

I have a serious question: If you exclude farm and tradesman vehicles, under what circumstances do you need a car with a power output of more than 80kW? What driving situations does it help with?

300 kw comes in handy when stuck behind a dork in an 80kw car travelling at 70 km/h until he reaches the passing lanes and speeds up in order to keep his place in the head of the queue that has built up behind him.
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August 19, 2009 11:11am
philu

don’t come the raw prawn there brian..

we all know it is mainly a white businessmens’ networking facility..

..an exception does not make a rule..eh..?

it is the rich white elites..(historically) snaffling the best real estate..

..for their playground/’game’..

..eh..?

where is the social equity there..eh..?

not much of a ‘case’ for retention of the status quo there..eh..?

and some of them being re-tuned into a park/eco-housing mix..

..makes perfect sense..

..and would see more public use of these ‘spaces’..

..by everyone..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 11:13am
Brian Smaller

You need to get out of the house more often Philu. I have played in golf courses up and down the country and it is mostly people having some exercise and getting frustrated at how much they suck at golf. You watch too much TV. Rugby was once the domain of the elite as well, and it is an everyman game here. What golf has to do with social equity is beyond me.

And what you said about more people using these spaces if they were nationalised is bullshit. Lazy arses will always be lazy arses no matter how many public spaces you give them.
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August 19, 2009 11:35am
Adolf Fiinkensein

philuraphukwit. What colour is the current world number one? What colour is VJ Singh? How many Asians are in the top 50 world money earners in golf? How many other ways do you know to be an idiot?

Professional DPB careerists can never afford to play golf. Nor can they afford to attend a rugby world cup match. Not unless they have ten kids and an $80k income courtesy of people like me.

Like cane toads, they are best cleared off the fairway with a well played nine iron.
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August 19, 2009 11:35am
Inventory2

@ Adolf – it would have to be one of YOUR irons – I don’t like cleaning mine 🙂
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August 19, 2009 11:37am
Kris K

I also believe that there are circumstances in which additional power is beneficial. I know having 150kW of turbocharged Subaru has gotten me out of trouble on several occassions [and no, it wasn’t outrunning the cops]. And of course for towing, etc. But having said that, my first car was a 1100 Ford Escort [~40kW], and prior to that I had a 250cc two stroke twin bike [in fact my first vehicle] while at university. So when I ‘graduated’ to a highly powered vehicle I had already ‘cut my teeth’ on both a bike and a [several] low powered car.

Rakaia George – “My personal feeling, as someone who rides a motorbike, is that the roads would be a safer place if everyone had to spend time on two wheels being vulnerable before they got to take charge of a car…”

I absolutely agree, and have actually held the same view myself for many years.
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August 19, 2009 11:47am
Jack5

Police Minister Collins is thinking of issuing photographs of convicted drinking drivers for publication (Fairfucked Media NZ newspapers 19 August).

Collins has latched on to another soft target, even softer than boy racers. When she will get on to the real crime issues such as the gangs that are running P and other drug distribution, prostitution, and burglary? (I know prostitution is legal now, but who is running the young addict-prostitutes?)

When is Collins going to get some police action on the Brash emails?

She’s like the Macbeth quotation:” full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”.

Collins is a paper bulldog.
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August 19, 2009 11:50am
big bruv

Careful Jack, that is our next PM you are talking about.
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August 19, 2009 11:58am
Rakaia George

Oh and perhaps you would care to back up this claim:

(historically) snaffling the best real estate

Can you point to a gold course anywhere that has been built on prime real estate, rather than being an old course that has since become prime real estate, mainly by virtue of being surrounded by high value housing that is (guess what!) high value because it’s near the gold course…
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August 19, 2009 11:58am
Kris K

Doc 10:43 am,
“Regarding KW limits for learners – the problem is enforcement. How do you stop learners driving dad’s V8? Do you require that all cars are dyno tested for power output and ‘officially’ recorded as part of a WoF? How would you combat ‘boy racers’ artificially limiting their vehicle’s power output for the test? (Eg. By way of restrictors (or even rev limiters) that can readily be reversed)”

One solution would be to limit newly qulified drivers to non modified vehicles with a specific kW rating. We could also restrict them to naturally aspirated engines only. And thus manufacturers specs would suffice regarding output figures.

“And, of course, you can get up sufficient speed to kill yourself on a pushbike… it’s not about peak power output at all, it’s about driving to the conditions. You simply can’t regulate that – you have to teach it.”

I agree, but a high ‘peak power’ vehicle allows one to readily move from “driving to the conditions” to dramatically exceeding them in a short space of time.
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August 19, 2009 12:00pm
philu

“..What golf has to do with social equity is beyond me..”

it’s not the golf..its’ the land use..

and adolf..several exceptions do not a rule make..

we all know that here in nz..it’s the rich white guys’ game..

and george..

“..Can you point to a gold course anywhere that has been built on prime real estate, rather than being an old course that has since become prime real estate,..”

um..!..your point..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 12:15pm
senzafine

Phool. Way back when I was a stoner, I learnt to not bother arguing with stoners. Otherwise you just end up in a big circle of neverending incoherant rhetoric. Suffice to say – You still have a choice, you just choose to flout the law.

As far as needing more than 80Kw, My [road legal] 4WD would be bloody pointless with 80kw. Trying to lug 2.5 tons through bogs and 45deg inclines with 80kw would be laughable at best.

My car on the other hand dosen’t need anywhere the 220kw it totes, but having an addiction to burning fossil fuel, i must say I enjoy it. 😀
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August 19, 2009 12:19pm
dime

80kw or under??? not easy to monitor!

how bout no turbos (turbo diesel ok), no v8’s, no v6’s, no superhcraged.. that should do it.

Aussie have/had the similar rule which worked well.

phil – if the number of people playing golf is in the decline and we have too many courses, the market will take care of it. IF there is a realistic demand for eco-friendly housing, then the market will build them! easy 🙂
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August 19, 2009 12:53pm
MikeMan

Kris K

Can you tell from an external look if a modern fuel injected engine has been modified?

I know for a fact that an SR16DE and a SR20VE look externally similar enough that the average police officer will not be able to tell the difference.

SR16DE = ~60KW
Modified SR20VE = ~200KW

They will look the same using factory airboxes etc.

Fact is driver education is the issue, I know of 250CC two stroke bikes that are as fast or faster then 600CC four strokes and these are legal for learners.

In fact a mate of mine on his learners rode a RZ250 with an RZ350 race motor in it, 750CC sports bikes could not catch it.

It comes back to teaching young people car control and advanced skills rather than book learning to pass an arbitry test that has little relation to actual road driving.
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August 19, 2009 1:06pm
joeAverage

Good report Terry, some posters on this blogg luv slagging people off, but remember Terry you dont know them and they dont know you so post and tell the abusers to get f**ked, i do 🙂
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August 19, 2009 1:11pm
philu

did you never ‘recover’..

after all..i did have to point out to you twice..

..that smoking is not the only way to ingest cannabis..

..but of course..

..it also depends on the base you start out from..

..did you only know ‘dumb’ stonersj..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 1:14pm
Kris K

Some quotes from Phil Goof’s speech re: sending the SAS to Afghanistan.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0908/S00234.htm

“The values of the current Afghan Government also reflect religious and cultural beliefs that most of us would find it hard to sacrifice New Zealand lives to defend.”
“In the last week it was announced that the Afghan Government had made it lawful for a man to starve his wife into submission. Sharia law also allows a person to be executed for changing their religion.”
“Nor am I keen to sacrifice the lives of New Zealanders for a narco-state that provides 93% of the world’s opium production, enriching warlords and government figures, and a state which suffers from endemic corruption.”

This leads me into a semi related area regarding the immigration into NZ of people [Muslims] that hold similar beliefs to those held in Afghanistan.
If, as Phil outlined above, “most of us would find it hard to sacrifice New Zealand lives to defend” the current Afghan Government because of its values based on particular “religious and cultural beliefs”, should we not also apply this same standard to immigration applicants where they may share a similar belief system?

We have already seen the fall-out in Europe [Eurabia] and the UK, especially London [Londonistan], where there has been large scale immigration of Muslims which hold views not inconsistant with those of the Afghan Government [and indeed many/most other Muslim countries].

I put it to you that if we do not apply some immigration screening process for religions/idealogies which are not only inconsistant with our own, but in fact aim to subjugate the very foundations of our society with their own belief systems/religion/laws, then we are likely to face tha same societal unreast as we have seen in recent years in Europe, London, etc.

I am just waiting for the first ‘female circumcision’, execution for converting out of Islam, the introduction of ‘hate crimes’ against Islam, etc to occur in NZ.

I still remember the bruhaha about the reinstatement of the cross atop the clock tower in Palmerston North in 2003. Labour list MP [Muslim] Ashraf Choudhary said that he was against the reinstatement of the cross; that “[NZ] society had moved on and that other religious and ethnic groups might oppose the presence of the cross in the city centre.”

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0309/S00542.htm
Excerpts:
Mr Peters said that Dr Choudhary’s comments showed an aspect of so-called multiculturalism that was an affront to ordinary New Zealanders.
“It shows that some newcomers to New Zealand want us to destroy our culture so that they may impose their own.”
“Just imagine what would happen to a Christian in a Muslim country if they suggested getting rid of a symbol of Islam. They would be punished severely, possibly even executed in fundamentalist areas.”

Mr Peters said that Dr Choudhary appeared to have little grasp of significant issues.
“People will remember that when the crunch came over legalising prostitution he went missing to help get the law passed. Perhaps he should explain that to the people of Palmerston North instead of telling them to take down religious symbols.”

I think at the moment NZ has its head in the sand regarding this issue, and it is a shame that we don’t have the voice of the likes of Winston Peters highlighting these kinds of issues.
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August 19, 2009 1:18pm
adc

Police still monitor and enforce things like restricted licenses / passengers etc.

Making something illegal has an effect, even if you only catch people circumstantially. Otherwise we wouldn’t be arguing S59 still. It’s a different prospect doing something when you know it’s against the law, even if you think the chances of being caught are slim.

So I think setting a limit on power, or power to weight for under 20s will still have a positive effect. Esp if you make them drive nanna cars. Honestly, you don’t need to exercise much restraint if you only have 20 horses, and it teaches you a lot about the other cars on the road.
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August 19, 2009 1:26pm
infused

As much of a nob philu is, he’s right about pot. It’s really good when you’re sick/ill.
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August 19, 2009 1:27pm
Repton

Why not make driving anything over 80kW a new licence class that requires extra, regular testing? No age restrictions, but if you want that king of power, you need to prove that you can handle it.
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August 19, 2009 1:57pm
adc

80kW “kind of power”????

that’s a shopping trolley. Everyone in the country would need to be certified for it.
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August 19, 2009 2:01pm
RightNow

# Ferdinand (77) Vote: Add rating 9 Subtract rating 3 Says:
August 19th, 2009 at 8:15 am

Radio New Zealand is claiming ….

I suggest Whaleoil may be the place to figure this out Ferdinand
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August 19, 2009 2:11pm
Brian Smaller

How about just taking cars off people who get certain demerit point limit – That would take care of problem.
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August 19, 2009 2:13pm
PaulD

adc has it right. As a point of reference a Toyota Corolla 1.8l has max power 100kW.

Multiplying the fine by the diameter of the exhaust outlet might get somewhere.

Right Now: WO is probably busy figuring out why his faction isn’t getting any traction
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August 19, 2009 2:13pm
joeAverage

I luv philus posts, ,this poster dosnt roll with the abusive posts,the poor bugger is getting kicked in the head and just dosnt notice it,YER RIGHT, but we all think he likes pissing off posters who can understand what he is trying to say, but decide he is just a wakko philuo.
how many keyboards have you worn out this month philu,ie these key things …;:”,;;,….”’.,,,,:””””..,,,,………………….,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,::::::::::;;;;;;;;;;;;;;””””””””””””””””””””””,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,………………………”””””””””””’::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;,,,,,,,,,,,,,,……………..
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August 19, 2009 2:21pm
Kapital

How long has Goodfellow got ?
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August 19, 2009 2:26pm
Kapital

So little time so much sleeze
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August 19, 2009 2:26pm
nickb

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2767426/Being-drunk-in-public-should-be-an-offence-again-Sir-Geoffrey

Good to see the wowsers are out in force again. While we’re at it, should we ban cars because some people crash?

Joe, have you lost your meds again?
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August 19, 2009 2:27pm
adc

Geoffrey Palmer is a pin-head.
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August 19, 2009 2:29pm
joeAverage

nickb, no i have a nice merlot, thanks for the worry post 🙂
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August 19, 2009 2:30pm
llew

What’s eco-state-housing? A state house with a dope plantation in the back yard?

I don’t get that, what has “eco” to do with dope?
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August 19, 2009 3:10pm
bearhunter

Kris K: In all fairness to Choudhary (who I consider to be an appalling waste of space and my tax dollars in general) the decision to put the cross back on the tower was one that was driven by the evangelical Christians who made up a large part of the council of the time. There was no consultation with the public about it and it wasn’t just Muslims who were pissed off at the decision.
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August 19, 2009 3:19pm
Repton

adc has it right. As a point of reference a Toyota Corolla 1.8l has max power 100kW.

Ok, what about 120kW?

What do most people use cars for? Work, supermarket, school, other trips around town. Do you really need 200kW for that? People say our driving standards are poor, but others argue that our public transport system is too poor to kick people out of their cars. This could be a way through the middle. Restrict people to low power cars to keep speeds down. And if you want a fast car, you need to do more training, which will increase sklll levels. If you sell it right, people won’t even complain, because it’ll be like official reconition of their leet driving skillz.
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August 19, 2009 3:31pm
Eisenhower

Ryan Sproull (2378) Vote: 2 0 Says:

August 19th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Not bad ideas, Kris. Isn’t there already a zero alcohol count for drivers 20 and under?

Land Transport Act 1998

57 Contravention of specified breath or blood-alcohol limit by person younger than 20

(1) A person younger than 20 commits an offence if the person drives or
attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road while the proportion of alcohol in
the person’s breath, as ascertained by an evidential breath test subsequently
undergone by the person under section 69, exceeds 150 micrograms of alcohol
per litre of breath.

(2) A person younger than 20 commits an offence if the person drives or
attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road while the proportion of alcohol in
the person’s blood, as ascertained from an analysis of a blood specimen
subsequently taken from the person under section 72 or section 73, exceeds
30 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood.
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August 19, 2009 3:36pm
dime

repton – my car is 195kw. i like having that much power. i rarely speed. theres one on-ramp where i like to get up to 100km/h as quick as possible but thats it!

its great having extra power on the open road.. just for over taking etc.
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August 19, 2009 3:40pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

Kapital, a considerably long time, if you can believe the DomPost. It’s starting to look as though there might have been a considerable number of new and loud own goals kicked within the VRWC.

Some people should study up on the habits of the Mojave Desert wild burros. When they are threatened by coyotes they form a circle with their heads to the centre and kick the shit out of anything which approaches. Every now and again one of them will stand with his head facing outward, kicking the shit out of his mates.

They call this individual a Jack Ass.
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August 19, 2009 3:54pm
big bruv

The topic of gay adoption (or same sex adoption if you are PC) has raised its ugly head again.

I have no issue with same sex partnerships or same sex civil unions but I draw the line at same sex adoption, it is just wrong and should not be allowed.

[DPF: Why? I certainly regard the best parenting situation (on average) is to be brought up by a father and mother married to each other or at least long-term committed to each other. But I would have the fact a prospective adopting couple are same sex to be a factor, rather than a prohibition. For example I would rate a gay couple aged 35 who have been together for 15 years, both holding well paying jobs over a 23 year old husband and wife who have been together only 12 months, and are both unemployed in terms of suitability for adoption. But if faced with two couples who are equally stable, income sufficient etc, yes I would have priority go to the child being raised by a father and mother as I think adult role models of both genders are important. But again that is a preference not a prohibition.

Also worth noting many gay couple already are parents through marriage split ups etc]
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August 19, 2009 4:20pm
johnbt

There is always noise about limiting the boy racer types but people forget that the other end of the age spectrum cause a similar number of deaths on the road. How many 80 year olds do you know that should be allowed to drive ?. They just do not have the reflexes and necessary motor skills to operate a motor vehicle. I say limit licences to those between 18 and 75 unless they can demonstrate they have the ability to be on the road.
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August 19, 2009 4:24pm
nickb

Forget that there is already crimes against being disorderly in the Summary Offences Act, Palmer and his merry wowsers will create some more law, and create more duplicate crimes which the police can already enforce.

If you are drunk and disorderly, you can already be charged. If you are drunk and notdisorderly, then WTF is the problem?!?!

Ironic that much of my first year of law was spent reading many of Palmer’s articles- ironically most being about New Zealand’s “hyper-lexis” gland- I.e the vast masses of new law that is churned out each year, without any thought as to whether it will be effective, efficient, or even necessary.

So then Palmer, why the fuck are you trying to criminalise something which is already a crime?! Are we going to have police cruising the streets at night to breath test people? Will there be a limit to what constitutes drunkeness?

Another move by hand wringing wets to ban something which can already be policed, to look as though it is doing something. Fuck. This is the kind of shit we voted Labour out for.
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August 19, 2009 4:43pm
joeAverage

David i disagree with you ,two old fags earning heaps is worth dog shit ,DOG SHIT in this world , children are not pets to be bought up by rich same sex persons they arnt dogs and cats or show pieces for dykes and queers to show your power or wealth to other strange same sex couples,, is money your worth in life david farrar, fuck a young poor couple starting out is worth more than two fag rockclimbersIf,a MAN and WOMEN love each other and can climb up the shit tree that labour and national have put in front of themi would say bum bunnys stay at the real back of the queaue, Fuck Mr Farrar adopt children to a hetrosexual couple, fuck a kid bought up by a queer couple would be tormented to death at school ,

[DPF: You seem to think gay parents can not love children, and see them as pets or accessories. That says far more about you than about them]
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August 19, 2009 5:08pm
nickb

joe cool off a bit mate.
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August 19, 2009 5:34pm
starboard

[DPF: You seem to think gay parents can not love children, and see them as pets or accessories. That says far more about you than about them

not the point. In the scheme of things being a fag is not normal. There is no way they should be allowed to bring up children.
one mother and one father =normal. Not one poof and one poof.
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August 19, 2009 5:36pm
Herman Poole

I’m comforatable with homosexuality, it’s a natural phenomonen.

I’m comfortable with civil unions. So long as marriage is left as it is.

I’m not comfortable with homosexual adoption as it is not natural and we would be second guessing the natural world.

By all means they should keep their natural children from other relationships, but in the natural world two people of the same sex cannot breed and we shouldn’t try to warp that.
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August 19, 2009 5:37pm
starboard

I’m comforatable with homosexuality, it’s a natural phenomonen

WTF ? Please explain…
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August 19, 2009 5:44pm
philu

“..in the natural world two people of the same sex cannot breed and we shouldn’t try to warp that..”

so..being able to breed..is a prerequisite to high quality childcare..?

..and is a guarantee of poor care..?

have you thought this through for more than five seconds..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 5:49pm
philu

‘and is’..is ..’and not is”

(but you knew that..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 19, 2009 5:54pm
Kapital

Anyone know which National female electorate MP is tied up with Mr Goodfellow the soon to be ex National president ?
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August 19, 2009 5:54pm

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