General Debate 4 July 2009

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starboard

From NZ Herald today…

Police have charged a multi-millionaire businessman, who was granted New Zealand citizenship in controversial circumstances, with making false declarations on immigration papers and using fake identities to obtain a passport.
Yong Ming Yan – also known as Bill Liu, Yang Liu and William Yan – was supported in his citizenship bid last year by Labour MPs Dover Samuels and Chris Carter, and National MP Pansy Wong.

..please explain Samuels Carter and Wong….
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July 4, 2009 8:19am
reid

There’s a good comment from Whale about Hooton’s NBR column (not online).

About Clark’s tactics.

Today, Labour still struggles with these truths, absurdly claiming its hand was forced by Bill English and Don Brash.
…

Before it can be redeemed, Labour needs first to be honest about its past. It must admit that it alone was responsible for the outrage, and that it knew what it was doing was wrong, but that it did it anyway.

After the excesses of Muldoon, Jim McClay became National’s leader. Mr McClay proved to have no hope of ever becoming prime minister but he valiantly began the process of eliminating the Muldoon legacy from his party. History judges him kindly.

Like Mr McClay, Phil Goff will never be prime minister but history too will judge him kindly if he uses his time as leader to distance his party from the disgrace of the Clark years
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July 4, 2009 8:21am
Inventory2

starboard – it’s not so much up to those three to explain – BUT – Shane Jones must explain why he granted citizenship against the advice of his officials, AND David Cunliffe must explain why he did not follow his officials’ advice and revoke Liu’s residency nine months earlier. Both of these Ministers made decisions based on Labour party considerations, not according to policy or good governance. That is the REAL scandal here.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/07/bill-liu-arrested.html
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July 4, 2009 8:24am
JC

Did you know that there are 117,000 notifications of child abuse or neglect made to the authorities each year?

And that there are 600,000 NZ children 9 years and under?

“Aha” you say.. getting ahead of me. “That means we really really do need that child abuse education group the Nats are getting rid of.. there are still 483,000 children that haven’t yet been notified as abused.. we need more child abuse education, not less!”

JC
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July 4, 2009 8:28am
starboard

…the whole thing smells strongly…a very cheeky bouquet with and aftertaste of I’ll scratch yours/you scratch mine…
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July 4, 2009 8:28am
philu

this may amuse some:..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/rush-limbaugh-is-still-a-big-fat-idiot/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 4, 2009 8:32am
starboard

…oopps…I mean ” an ” aftertaste..
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July 4, 2009 8:35am
Inventory2

You’re not wrong starboard. When Wishart broke the story a few weeks before the election, it was quickly swept under the carpet, a la Taito Philip Field in 2005. Now that the case is before the Court, it’s back out in the open again, and the stench is overwhelming.

To refresh memories – Liu hosted fundraising dinners for Labour at a popular Auckland restaurant where the hat was passed around, and significant sums of cash were raised – anonymously. So much for Labour’s transparency over donations! Liu also made “named” donations of $5k to both National and Labour in 2005, but these pale into insignificance compared to what was raised anonymously. He was also very good mates with Chris Carter and Rick Barker. It was because of the relationship with Barker that Jones made the citizenship decision as Barker’s associate minister – completely against what DIA officials recommended.
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July 4, 2009 8:39am
philu

and if the rush story is an entree..

..here is the main course..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/the-un-american-way-of-lifea-controversial-new-history-of-communism-suggests-that-most-everything-we-think-we-know-about-it-is-wrong/

(here is a teaser:..)

“..But you didn’t have to endorse Communism to be fascinated by it.

Simply the existence of that alternate model, with its claim of scientific inevitability and its alleged utopian aims..

.. had a bizarre, distorting effect on political discourse clear across the ideological spectrum.

Significant sectors of the left were paralyzed by Communism..

.. unwilling or unable to criticize regimes (no matter how nightmarish and autocratic)..

.. that nominated themselves as the enemies of capitalism and imperialism and the champions of third-world revolution.

Right-wingers became hysterically obsessed by it, finding a creeping Red stain in Hollywood movies, pop music and abstract art ..

..(and never realizing how much they were mirroring the paranoia of the Soviet commissars). ..”

(mmm!!!..’brainfood..!..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 4, 2009 8:40am
reid

What amazes me is that any politician was dumb enough to touch this guy with a bargepole.

I can in some ways understand why the Liarbore people didn’t recognise the corruption for what it was, but I thought Pansy had more sense.
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July 4, 2009 8:43am
starboard

you’re up early whore…did ya shit the bed ? Mind you , being the lazy bastard you are , you’d just roll over and go back to sleep…
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July 4, 2009 8:46am
reid

Anyone following the national standards issue?

Finally, someone is taking on the educators, on their most hallowed ground.

Mrs Tolley said there was still time to work through any disagreement. She was confident the Government would not face the prospect of sacking boards that backed their principals.

The New Zealand Educational Institute said yesterday that an Education Ministry letter showed the Government was delaying the standards until 2011.

Mrs Tolley denied the claim, saying national standards would be introduced as scheduled next year, though reporting would not begin until 2011.

MAKING THE GRADE

* National standards are a way of assessing every primary and intermediate school pupil against the same academic measures.

* The standards will assess pupils’ skills in reading, writing and maths though existing assessment methods.

* Information about the performance of each school will be reported to the Education Ministry.

* Schools say public results will lead to league tables that could see some of them shunned over a narrow measure that ignores social and economic factors.

* There are fears this will see parents pull their children from some schools and make pupils feel inadequate.

* The Government says standards will lift educational achievement and parents have the right to know how their children are progressing academically.

What’s interesting to me is that these educators are in many ways doing precisely what phil refers to above: “mirroring the paranoia of the Soviet commissars,” and they don’t even know they’re doing it.
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July 4, 2009 8:59am
Viking2

Well the Nats. could if they wanted get rid of this infested lot. Voluntary students association, dismantle the labour laws re unions again, bulk fund schools and hospitals and all govt. departments, privatize institutions, pass Rodney’s bill requiring proper inquiry into legislation i.e. destroy the means of socialism. i.e. money rorts available to the lefties.
But will they. No they ain’t winner takes all focused at all.
Power is going the right Direction, attacking the justice system rorts. Long way to go yet so hope his has a thick hide(no pun intended), for the legal profession won’t like their medicine.
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July 4, 2009 9:03am
cha

McCain-Palin campaign emails that show a lot of infighting between Sarah Palin and campaign staffers.

Palin resigns as Alaska Governor

Reid?
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July 4, 2009 9:08am
starboard

Power is going the right Direction, attacking the justice system rorts. Long way to go yet so hope his has a thick hide(no pun intended), for the legal profession won’t like their medicine.

…all ” power ” to him…about time the legal aid gravy train was de-railed…thieving parasitic bastards…
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July 4, 2009 9:23am
reid

Very good point, viking.

The Nats, after spending nine years in the wilderness, should have emerged with trillions of good ideas.

Given the urgency forced on us by the GFC, they should be going at it like a bull at the gate. Instead we’re seeing tentative baby steps. Off the top of my head, the following issues are sitters for a more aggresive approach:

The market rorts in electricity, phones and banks, the wait times in justice and health, the PC psychobabble in education, the consistency issues in immigration, the general productivity comparison in the civil service vs private sector and the currency volatility.

The only truly radical thing is the supercity and that would not have happened without Hide and ACT.

I am hoping that dealing with currency volatility will become a very hot issue esp with Key’s background. For years now NZ’s currency has appeared to have been treated by the killer whale big boys like a baby seal. It’s small enough for them to manipulate it at will for their own profits and that is why it’s traded so frequently. I wouldn’t be surprised also to find that the US regulators who could exert subtle pressure on the big boys if they wanted to, don’t particularly care to do so, because of the way we’ve treated the US diplomatically over the last thirty years.

It’s one of our most critical economic issues and if Key can find a way to manage this effectively and permanently, he deserves to stay in power based on that achievement alone.

Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for some urgency, aggression and foresight from the Cabinet to help position us to deal with the fallout from the worst storm any of us have ever seen.
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July 4, 2009 9:29am
reid

What, cha?
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July 4, 2009 9:30am
philu

“..For years now NZ’s currency has appeared to have been treated by the killer whale big boys like a baby seal..”

(ahem..!..that would be john key..?..in a previous life..?

..as the ‘killerwhale’..?

so..i guess..at the very least..he should know..

..i suppose..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 4, 2009 9:43am
grumpyoldhori

Strange those yanks who call themselves conservatives, it seems the more conservative a state is the more money they need from liberal state taxpayers via Washington DC.
Still, cannot have those bible bashing firearm loving types going without ammo.
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July 4, 2009 9:46am
reid

Yeah as I indicated phil, Key is perfectly positioned to come up with a solution if in fact the situation arises due to those dynamics.

However part of the permanent solution will of course mean that as a nation, we’re going to have to fundamentally review our relationship with the US over the last thirty years and begin acting quite differently.

The idiotic mouse-that-roared psychologically that exists at very deep levels in this country has to be exposed for the profound stupidity that it, in fact, is.

This is a massive and difficult undertaking however one of the side-benefits of it would be that people would finally understand what a bunch of execrable manipulators the Liarbore Party were during the Hulun years. That could only be a good thing.
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July 4, 2009 9:53am
philu

i tend to go with the advice proffered by george bernard shaw..when he visited here in the 1930’s..

..as a leading thinker of his time..his visit was akin to a state visit..civic receptions/local luminaries the length and breadth of the country..

..and when asked for his opinion/advice on where new zealand should go..

..he opined a vision of a shangri la..

..saying we are in the perfect position to create a paradise on earth..

..but to do that we must cut ourselves loose from the ties of mother-england..and the rest of the world..

..and that we should concentrate on building a ‘self-sufficient’ country..

..one that looked after all..

..he also issued the (prescient) warnings..

..that continuing to rely on feeding britain as our main economic driver..

..was a recipie for disaster/failure..

..’cos..’one day that will end’..

(whoar..!..eh..?..was he on the money..?..or what..?..)

(as an aside:..despite mocking/attacking organised religion..and the perversions they wrought..for most of his life..

..shaw had a ‘belief’ in an unexplainable ‘life-force’…

..and as such explored the reachings of religions/the para-normal etc..

..and a comment/aside he made here..(to a reporter..on board as his departing ship steamed out of wellington harbour..)

..(keep in mind this is a man contemptuous of false flattery/cant..)

..that..if reincarnation is what happens to us after death..

..that new zealand is where he wants to come back to..

..because it really is..’the best country in the world’..

(and hey..!..we could still make it that way..eh..?

..as far away as we may now be..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 4, 2009 10:18am
Steve

Phool.
Nobody is interested today, nobody was interested yesterday and they won’t be interested tomorrow.
Take a hint, fuck off and annoy someone else.
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July 4, 2009 11:10am
reid

Steve, phil’s got just as much right as you and I have to be here.

If you’re upset about that, why don’t you start your own blog and ban him from it?

Be sure and let us know so those who want a phil-free space can exercise their freedom to visit you.
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July 4, 2009 11:19am
starboard

reid (2869) 0 1 Says:

July 4th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Steve, phil’s got just as much right as you and I have to be here.

If you’re upset about that, why don’t you start your own blog and ban him from it?

Be sure and let us know so those who want a phil-free space can exercise their freedom to visit you.

…Reid…the apologist for losers/Phool inc…blah…
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July 4, 2009 11:27am
backster

REID::::::::::The Government’s main problem are the hundreds of Clark acolytes entrenched in key strategic public Service positions before she was thrown out. I mean you have Palmer preparing or vetting all the legislation before it is considered and Caygill overseeing electricity distribution to mention but two. Then of course there is no money, it was all squandered before the new government took over. That makes change difficult.
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July 4, 2009 12:06pm
reid

I agree these are real issues, backster. However, that’s why it’s called power.

You can’t do much about the lack of money, but you can do a great deal about the entrenched positions, and so far, there has been little movement on those, in terms of the degree of aggression and alacrity that’s actually required to deal with it.

I actually don’t mind Caygill, personally.
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July 4, 2009 12:17pm
Razork

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/retail/2564548/Line-7-says-cut-price-stock-selling-well

Maybe if it hadn’t been so expensive in the first place they might have done better.
I like nice (and sometimes expensive) clothes as much as the next guy, but Line -7 gear was over the top.
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July 4, 2009 12:21pm
big bruv

Jesus DPF, can we please have a break from the rantings of Phool?.

That man is clearly fucked in the head.
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July 4, 2009 12:46pm
big bruv

“I like nice (and sometimes expensive) clothes”

Capitalist pig
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July 4, 2009 12:49pm
Razork

And proud of it BB!
You don’t like rich pricks?
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July 4, 2009 12:57pm
big bruv

Of course I do, well, except for those closet socialist rich pricks who end up being PM.
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July 4, 2009 1:01pm
cha

Reid, sorry about that, the SO’s car up to the sills in mud so fun and games with 4wds and tow ropes, but the Palin resignation has come as a surprise and the right blogs seem to be hinting at an ethics issue.

William Kristol

<pi>If Palin wants to run in 2012, why not do exactly what she announced today? It’s an enormous gamble – but it could be a shrewd one

The New Republic

But whether she’s getting tired of a small-potatoes job after hitting the big time, and wants to move up, or is getting out of the game entirely, she’s definitely a free woman now–unless there is a process-server staking out her front door.

LGF

Hmm. This is a pretty standard way to downplay something and keep it out of the news cycle as much as possible— release it late Friday on a long weekend.

So has my favourite righty got an opinion on WTF is going on with the Palin resignation?.
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July 4, 2009 1:07pm
reid

“So has my favourite righty got an opinion on WTF is going on with the Palin resignation?”

She’s history, she didn’t play properly with the McCain camp and they won’t have her again.

If you want my pick, 2012 Repub ticket will be Arnold and maybe Limbaugh.

Of course they need to modify the constitution to let Arnold run and that’s why they’re keeping Obama’s citizenship issue alive.
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July 4, 2009 1:57pm
grumpyoldhori

reid Arnold ? if they changed the law to allow him to run how would he win the primaries ?
I could not see him waving a AK47 and ranting how the USA is a xtian country.
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July 4, 2009 2:11pm
grumpyoldhori

backster The Labour party followed the Muldoon approach and spent the lot.
That way the Nats will be blamed when Key has to raise tax rates again 🙂
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July 4, 2009 2:15pm
reid

He knows the right people, grumpy.

You’ve seen the photo of him with Rothschild and Buffett?

That’s why I’m picking him.

US politics has never been about the will of the people – that’s only an illusion they like to create for people naive enough to actually believe it. It’s always been about who you know and whether you’re prepared to do what they tell you to do.
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July 4, 2009 2:18pm
joeAverage

the FUCKEN MAORIS HAVE BEEN GIVEN ZILLIONS in the latest CASH giveaway (arseholes) so expect a lot of BADLY driven 4wd driven by( FATBELLYS) new cars driven by the bro MAORI (we are in the moneyda da da da )
go john boy key a jewish banker our ruler.ourPM ??????? he takes no notice of our wishes, tosser 2.5 years to go to get rid of these turds
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July 4, 2009 6:43pm
joeAverage

Im worried theres no money for police cars .night education for adults , health schooling every thing in NZ EVERYTHING(not a cent)BUT a thought NEW ZEALAND poor NZ,but think ZILLIONS are ready to be givin to fat belly maoris for some so called injustise in the dim dark past, wow the fat belly maori love ford holden toyota also the fat belly must love john boy key because the jewish investment banker(PM) has enriched the damn maori at the expense of the sweat of my brow, no one gives me nothing, im a red neck honky pakeha i start work at 5.30 am and im skilled
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July 4, 2009 7:04pm
big bruv

I have just heard another reason why Neville Key is a fucking goose, his treaty negotiator Finlayson has told Maori today that “todays half a BILLION dollar tree lords settlement is just the start”, he went on to say that “National will be VERY GENEROUS” with future negotiations.

Can somebody tell these fucking wankers that it is MY MONEY they plan on being generous with?
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July 4, 2009 7:06pm
Razork

Joe/BB
Look who negotiated the settlement before you blame Key and Co.
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July 4, 2009 8:14pm
starboard

..its all gona come to an ugly head one day Im afraid…
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July 4, 2009 8:40pm
TimG_Oz

Joe Average – care to explain the relevance of John Key’s ethnicity (i.e. “Jewish”) that you have referenced in each of your posts?
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July 4, 2009 8:53pm
cha

If you want my pick, 2012 Repub ticket will be Arnold and maybe Limbaugh.

Arnie and Limbaugh?, really, scary Reid, scary. But I suppose if the Obama administration goes on to fubar like some are wishing/hoping then the US really will need a proper messiah/s.
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July 5, 2009 6:39am

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