General Debate 29 July 2009

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment162

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (162)

Login to comment or vote

Auberon

As I was watching Chris Hipkins waste the planet’s much needed oxygen during a ten minute speech on the Inquiries Bill in Parliament last night (tragic, I know) it struck me that if he dyed his hair black he’d be a dead wringer for TV3’s John Campbell. Yep, the winter nights are flying by in my house.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:34am
Cerium

“(Bennett) said the episode was “a lesson” for anyone wanting to speak out that they should reveal the full facts of their situation.”

“What would be helpful was if all that information had been in the public domain in the first place so people can judge the merits of it,” Key said.

New National policy?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:35am
Auberon

I agree with Bill Ralston (especially the final line):

The rules are simple and Ms Johnston and Ms Fuller need to understand them.
* (1) If you stand up in public and make a statement, be prepared to have someone contradict you. That’s democracy.
* (2) If you stick your nose into a political fight, someone is likely to bloody it.
* (3) The public, to which you have just appealed, has the right to hear all the facts, not just the ones you chose to reveal.
What is more, the mainstream media have a responsibility to print those facts, as distasteful as you may feel that may be, because they have a duty to run balanced stories. (That includes you National Radio!)
Sue Bradford is just being silly when she calls Bennett’s actions an “outrage” and demands the minister apologise to the women.
What does Bradford propose? That any time a minister is attacked by a vocal member of the public, the minister has to fight with one hand tied behind their back? Even if they believe the allegations being presented are wrong, are ministers not entitled to tell the public what they believe is the truth?
I’ve always admired Sue Bradford but on this one she is being ridiculous saying, “The Green Party believes that in a democracy individuals should feel free to criticise Government actions which affect them without having the full force of the state and the media working together to criticise and demean them.”
That statement is just nuts.
* (a) Bennett arguing her case that the women were receiving more than they claimed is hardly “the full force of the state” being exerted.
* (b) The state and the media are not “working together to criticise and demean them”. The media has a job to present all the facts.
These two women chose to exercise their democratic right and criticise the Government. Good on them. But to expect the Government not to criticise them back is just plain stupid.
If someone starts a debate they should expect there to be facts and arguments produced that may be detrimental to their position. Once again, that’s what happens in a democracy.
No one is trying to demean the women. I applaud their feisty response to the Government’s cuts but they can hardly expect to be treated with kid gloves by the media if they deliberately enter a partisan political argument.
Can everyone take a big cup of “toughen up”?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:50am
GMDI

Does Helen Clark wear ugly communist smocks every day at the UN?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:50am
KiwiGreg

I listened to one of them last night – her basic bleat seemed to be “I went public and now I am getting publicity”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:54am
Chris2

How do some posters at Kiwiblog apply formatting and indenting to their posts, and can italicise earlier comments when quoting from them?

I’d like to be able to do that neat stuff too with my posts.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:58am
wreck1080

Can you contract swine flue, and seasonal flu simultaneously?

The perfect storm perhaps, or maybe they cancel each other out .
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:01am
KiwiGreg

@ wreck probably, one of my colleagues kids got pneumonia and H1N1 at the same time
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:03am
Cerium

“Can everyone take a big cup of “toughen up”?”

Ok for him to say that. He is one of the deliverers of the media onslaught. People don’t really matter, it’s the sensation that counts.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:05am
siobhan

Unsurprised to see that Politicians and Media still failing to grasp public sentiment. Whilst busily playing politics and screaming blue murder about “privacy”.

The public (you know – the people they represent) are sitting around smoko rooms across the country saying “those women on the DPB get HOW MUCH! You are fucking kidding”.

Get with the program Pollies and Media peeps – its not all about you.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:10am
Auberon

Yeah Cerium, nothing says sensation like having your names and cases in a Sunday paper, on facebook, twitter and two days running at Question Time, but when a Cabinet Minister tries to bring balance to the story it’s unacceptable? Please. Again, take a big cup of toughen up.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:11am
siobhan

“Ok for him to say that. He is one of the deliverers of the media onslaught. People don’t really matter, it’s the sensation that counts.”

Indeed Cerium – its a pity that the media circus today is about “creating the story” rather than “reporting the story”.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:13am
DeepScience

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10587295

“Labour previously sent the SAS to Afghanistan three times. Mr Goff said that was at a “different time” in the war”

So people didn’t use guns back then? Is that why Labour sent them? Just sounds like hypocrisy.

>”Labour leader Phil Goff said he would prefer that other New Zealand troops were sent to focus on training the Afghan Army and police.”

Wait, the training is more dangerous than normal work so Goff wants to send less trained people to do the job? That suggests 1) he expects casualties from it 2) he wants those casualties to be regular army not the more expensive to train SAS staff 3) it perpetuates the WWI “canon fodder” idea surely, upper class detachment.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:15am
NOt1tocommentoften

To all those who use public health care, would you be happy to have Tony Ryle release all of your medical records to all in sundry? I know I wouldn’t and beleive I have a reasonable expectation of privacy concerning these.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:19am
SBY

Never mind “bringing balance to the story”. The more interesting question is this: did Bennett breach the Privacy Act? And if she did, what does that say about her judgment as a minister?

And can I expect my tax return to be made public if I ever dare to criticise this Government?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:19am
NOt1tocommentoften

SBY – aparently that’s the new standard. That seems to be Bennet’s rational. I can’t understand how people can not just see past the numbers here for a minute and consider what this illustrates: A complete lack of judgement to the point that she can no longer be trusted as a Minister of the Crown.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:24am
siobhan

“Never mind “bringing balance to the story”. The more interesting question is this: did Bennett breach the Privacy Act? And if she did, what does that say about her judgment as a minister?”

At least she has the guts (??) to be honest about this. Do you honestly think in previous governments that if this story had broken, the full facts would not have been leaked by underhanded means to the media?

I think that Key and Bennett probably had a better idea of how the average worker was going to react to “the full story” than their opponents. You know – the opposition that have spent most of their careers in Politics or Academia, and don’t actually know how the majority of people live.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:28am
Adolf Fiinkensein

My my. Aren’t the lefties in a tiz? Caught with their pants down again. Shit everywhere and not a scrap of toilet paper in sight.

Paula Bennet has shown first class judgment as a Minister. The sort of judgment which has not been seen in the previous nine years. I’d say she’s worth at least three basis points in the next Roy Morgan.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:31am
Rakaia George

And can I expect my tax return to be made public if I ever dare to criticise this Government?

I dare say if you went public claiming a tax change was unfair and meant you couldn’t feed your kids or somesuch, yet you were actually pretty comfortably off then the answer might be a “yes”…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:32am
Swiftman the infidel

“Does Helen Clark wear ugly communist smocks every day at the UN?”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:32am
Murray

As much as people here like to go yeah take bitches the fact is that Bennet played the man not the ball and turned it into a personal slanging match.

I had hoped we were moving on from that sort of political “tactic”. Clearly not. Also these women are the ones trying to get OFF a benefit. One that Bennet herself used to get where she is today. Again a dose of hypocracy from a minister was something I had hopped was in our past.

My “support” such as it is for National is conditional and those conditions are not being met.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:32am
Swiftman the infidel

“Does Helen Clark wear ugly communist smocks every day at the UN?”

No. She doesn’t have to wear communist smocks every day at the UN to look ugly.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:33am
Paul Marsden

A case of… ‘people in glasshouses shouldn’t throw stones’, perhaps? Even today’s NZH editorial supports Bennett.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:36am
SBY

siobhan: you said “At least she has the guts (??) to be honest about this.”

I’d rather ministers were complying with the law, thanks. And it would also be nice if they consulted their officials, rather than just spending 5 minutes on the Privacy Commission’s website. Is it too much to expect a basic level of competence?

And if Labour ever did anything like this, openly or covertly, then of course it would have been wrong too.

You also said: “the opposition that have spent most of their careers in Politics or Academia, and don’t actually know how the majority of people live.” Members of the Opposition parties come from a diverse range of backgrounds. Just because you don’t agree with them, that doesn’t mean they don’t know how the majority live. How exactly is the membership of the National caucus any more diverse or representative of society? For instance, 12 of the top 14 ranked Nat MPs are men, and all of the top 14 are white.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:38am
Murray

Labour did little else than this SBY as Ducan Garner poited out with great enthusisam, they were just sneaky about it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:43am
Adolf Fiinkensein

Isn’t it bizarre that lefties are bleating about an alleged ‘failure to consult officials’ when in fact the Minister consulted the official website of the Privacy Commissioner? For fuck’s sake people, who do you think wrote the ‘official’ advice to Ministers put up on the official website? Street sweepers?

Fellers, you are stuffed yet again. Wile E. Coyote smashes into the bottom of the canyon for the umpteenth time while PM Key beams his radiant smile across the house at the scowling muttering useless opposition.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:44am
Offshore_Kiwi

Siobhan, that is precisely the point! This Minister sought advice from the Privacy Commissioner before she acted. Not that the last administration would ever have dared to cut an entitlement (heaven forbid we should stop funding for hugging polar bears!) but if the positions were reversed, you can be sure the story would have come out either through an underhanded leak,, or (gasp) the leftie lickspittle MSM doing their job and actually researching the facts. Nah, H1 and H2 gave the media all they needed to know, so a leak is much more likely.

Hey maybe that’s why the MSM is so bad at the journalism thingy now – they had 9 years of not having to do any research (having had their *stories*, *positions* and *angles* handed to them via the 9th floor). Now H1 and H2 have left town the message is a little less controlled and their piss-poor standards are being exposed??
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:45am
philu

fuck..!..i agree with murray..!

..and here is some round-up..

..for the/any(?) green-shooters out there..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/more-pigs-at-the-trough-what-enron-and-worldcom-can-teach-us-about-goldman-and-aig/

(and..psstt..!..that guy adolf..a couple of comments ago..?..

..he believed the ‘intelligence’ for the iraq war..

..he argued that george bush jnr was an economic wizz..

..he is a climatechange denier..

(..and one of my favourites..)

his rejoinder to one of the many warnings i have posted here about the economic meltdown..(since aug 2006)..

..was a sneer that i was ‘trying to single-handedly bring down the american economy’..

..(it seems like i was ‘successful’..?..eh adolf..?)

..what i’m saying..is that his prediction/analysis track record isn’t that crash-hot..eh..?

..with one glaring exception..

..he was one of the first to ‘call’ the maori party and the national party teaming up..

..something..at the time..i sneered at..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:47am
Inventory2

@ siobhan 8.10am – agree 100% – the more that King, Chauvel and Bradford beat this up, the more National’s support will grow.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:49am
Murray

No you don’t phool. I have priniciples that mean I don’t toe anyones party line. You’re dynabolted to the left.

You’re just the stopped clock whose time is flashing past.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:53am
starboard

The public (you know – the people they represent) are sitting around smoko rooms across the country saying “those women on the DPB get HOW MUCH! You are fucking kidding”.

100 PERCENT CORRECT !! National and JK…if you can sort this issue you will be in power for the next 50 years…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:57am
philu

(heh..!..)..this is funny..!

william shatner ‘does’ sarah palin..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/william-shatner-makes-palins-speech-into-poetry-video/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:58am
SBY

Adolf Fiinkensein, you said: “Isn’t it bizarre that lefties are bleating about an alleged ‘failure to consult officials’ when in fact the Minister consulted the official website of the Privacy Commissioner?”

No, I don’t think it’s bizarre at all. And I’ll ignore the “leftie” slight in the spirit of the new moderation regime coming to this site.

Given Bennett’s previous public statements that she likes information in bullet-points, isn’t it reasonable to ask just how much of the website she read or understand?

And anyone in government who has to make a risky call should know to ask the lawyers first. The “I got legal advice on this before acting” defence sounds more convincing than the “I saw it on a website” one.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:59am
siobhan

SBY said:

“How exactly is the membership of the National caucus any more diverse or representative of society? For instance, 12 of the top 14 ranked Nat MPs are men, and all of the top 14 are white.”

When we are talking about the general publics response to how there hard earned tax dollar is being spent – Pollies that have had to earn their income will obviously have more empathy with those they represent. Regardless of skin colour, gender or religious beliefs. Having worked in the cocoon of Academia before making a good living in the “real world”, I can safely say the Academic theory vs Economic reality could not be further apart.

I suspect when you have done nothing else, than be a politician, that the same mentality occurs.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 9:04am
Brian Smaller

CHris For indenting quotes read about blockquote comand on this website.
http://www.w3schools.com/TAGS/tag_blockquote.asp
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 9:17am
SBY

siobhan, both major parties have career politicians in their ranks.

And if we’re going to talk about the “real world”, how is an offshore career of buying and selling foreign currency any better training for politics than a career in education or academia?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 9:20am
Rodders

Re the changes in Business migrant rules announced yesterday, it will be interesting to see how long it is before NZ First has something inflammatory to say about it.
On the other hand, NZ First may be happy to support migrants who are able to deposit funds in secret trusts.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 9:23am
alex Masterley

starboard,
Just been out of the office doing some errands.
Listening to talk back the callers were saying WTF? they get that much?
I get the impression that the callers think that these women are crying wolf.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 9:29am
philu

look..let’s not tell ‘red’ about this ..eh..?

..one of his ‘heros’..o’reilly..

..has just ‘debunked’ one of his (reds’) ‘favourite-theories’..

..the ‘birther’ one..

(i’m pretty sure red will take this one ‘personally’..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/bill-oreilly-slams-birther-story/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 9:41am
grumpyoldhori

Bennett will be PM one day, yea right
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 9:41am
MeneerCronje

philu – In the nicest possible way, could you please write using normal sentence structure? I value the opinions of all posters, but skip over your posts simply because the way it is written irritates me even more than txt speech. I hope you can appreciate the sincerity of this request, it is not a stab.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 9:47am
Gosman

Anyone else notice that the left leaning blogs seem to be filled with an unusally high number of conspiracy theorists. I know Kiwiblog has a couple of them as well but they stay largely to the fringe.

I was posting on The Standard yeasterday about the Afghan deployment issue and was bombarded by people informing me that the September the 11th 2001 attacks were not carried out by Al Qaida at all but by the US Government.

I really can’t take them seriously anymore.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 10:39am
Sam Buchanan

“philu – In the nicest possible way, could you please write using normal sentence structure?”

Yeah – I don’t read Phil’s posts either, simply because of his ellipsisosis.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 10:44am
Gosman

So Philu what is your take on the conspiracy theories around 911 then?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 10:46am
SBY

Gosman, I just caught up with the Standard thread and it made me sick.

But I’d hesitate to say there are more nuts posting on the Standard than here. Both sites have a large contingent of “interesting” people posting.

But please don’t encourage Philu…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 11:12am
Gosman

You might be right about the number of ‘interesting’ people however I suspect if someone came up with wacky ideas here they would be challenged by someone of the same political persuassion. In fact I myself have debated Redbaiter regarding his views on Obama’s legal right to be President of the United States.

On The Standard I was pretty much a loan voice, (until your recent comments), opposing those who feel that once of the worst Terrorist attrocities in history wasn’t a secret nefarious plot by the right-wing establishment to influence public opinion and use it as an excuse to attack Afghanistan and Iraq.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 11:39am
side show bob

Is anyone else getting fed up with the dribbling left leaning suckholes in the media, that pretend they are Gods gift to truth and justice. Watched some more of breakfast TV this morning, fuck what sad sick joke. Is Paul Henry paid extra for every lefty arse he can find to lick. Interviewed a democratic senator this morning and if old Mac daddy was around both Henry and this guy would have tried to mount him, pitiful. Then they started talking about Sarah Palin and what a joke this woman is, then Paul asked Alison at the studio what she thought of Sarah Palin, “not much” was the answer, this must have been the correct answer as Henry and this other clown concurred. Then Alison called Bennett the bully and had some diseased tosser talking about the evil, evil, evil Paula. God these people are desperate for traction, morons, they still believe the general public believe their propaganda and bullshit.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 11:59am
markm

Over at the Standard there is a post on the lack of standards in the comments from Kiwiblog and how it needs to be tidied up.
There is the usual tripe about the high level of debate at the standard.

I tried to post my comments but they rejected them.
I simply cut and pasted the comments belowfrom their last 4 posts to show their hypocracy

Fuck you’re an old bore burt.
Because you’re a dimwit.

“crushed cranium” Collins and Captain Enviro-Mental
Burt do you suffer from aspurges
You must have the intellect of pond scum
are you really a slack-jawed yokel?
Don’t be a dickhead Tim.
Fuck off Tim.
Perhaps they should slit your throat as well IB –

These comments include some from the contributors to the Standard

What a pity the level of debate here is not up to this intellectual standard
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 12:19pm
SBY

Gosman, I know some of the people who post occasionally on the Standard. Many of them would be appalled by what’s on the thread we’ve been discussing. I think the 9/11 conspiracy theorists belong in their own category: not Left or Right. Just “nutters”.

I’m not prepared to write the Standard off yet – there’s an occasional gem, and much dross. Like most blogs.

Markm, I agree they need to work on their moderation policy. It seems a bit random. Probably something to do with the large number of contributors. Whatever the rule is, they should apply it consistently.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 12:25pm
Gosman

The leftist are such hypocrites when it comes to comment moderation. Basically if it is an post that is expressing a derogoratory opinion about someone on the Right of the spectrum it is kosher. However anything remotely critical of a leftist position comes under far more scrutiny and woe be tide if you attempt to haul the blogger him, or her, self up on something they have written by pointing out that it is complete rubbish.

Martin Bradbury at Tumeke is a master at deleting critical posts. It has very little to do with the legal ramifications and more to do with trying to big himself up. I have apparently been banned from posting on his threads there because he doesn’t like my attitude. LOL.

The Standard is just as bad in my opinion with how they deal with their comments.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 12:31pm
RightNow

markm, yep, they’re a bunch of onanists. Up to them though, it’s their blog, but clearly it’s a lefty jerk-circle and they all gang together to ensure only their ideology has the last word on any debate. It’s a lot like lefty academics who could never make it in the real world. All talk and ideals but no practical solutions (except raise taxes and increase welfare).
kiwipolitico is better in that they don’t resort to outright abuse, but they’ve distinctly stated they don’t want kiwiblog type open comments. They’re going to bring newspeak into the mainstream, where no-one will ever say anything (they deem) sexist, racist or any form of hate-speech. Redneck is acceptable though, and misogynist seems to be a stock favourite. And using a light smack is classed as child abuse.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 12:32pm
side show bob

Kiwipolitico=a bunch of pompous sanctimonious academic tosspots who think their shit doesn’t stink. In other words they are up themselves,
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 12:47pm
Paul G. Buchanan

side show bob: much obliged for that brilliant example of a reasoned critique.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 1:39pm
freethinker

SBY (44) Vote: 3 5 Says:
July 29th, 2009 at 9:20 am

siobhan, both major parties have career politicians in their ranks.

And if we’re going to talk about the “real world”, how is an offshore career of buying and selling foreign currency any better training for politics than a career in education or academia?

Answer – Practice V Theory – would you prefer to fly with a pilot of 10,000 hours experience or one who has only flown their Microsoft simulator – game set & match to exeperience I think!!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 1:53pm
Cerium

Hawaii’s health director said in a statement this week: “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008, over eight months ago.”

The House of Representatives, in unanimously approving a resolution celebrating the 50th anniversary of Hawaii becoming the 50th state on Monday, added its own voice to the question with the phrase: “Whereas the 44th president of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on Aug. 4, 1961.”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 2:51pm
KiwiGreg

@ Cerium OMG look how high up this conspiracy goes!!!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 2:55pm
KiwiGreg

also if you add his date of birth together and multiply it by 44 (being the 44th president) you get 528, which as we all know is only 138 less than 666 – the number of the beast!!!!!!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 3:00pm
MyNameIsJack

KG, shock! Horror!

it is actually 136 less than 664, the next door neighbour of the beast. How could America do this?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 3:14pm
side show bob

Paul G. Buchanan, happy to oblige Paul. I personally think that a lot of blog sites get rather upset that Kiwiblog enjoys thousands of hits a day while others struggle, many are simply echo chambers for the anointed, Kiwipolitico being one of these. I probably post stuff way below the standards set by these sites but what myself and many others are saying are more in line with the mood of the country, something that you and your cronies find unpalatable. Yes by all means edit but don’t get surprised when all you have left is the sound of your own voice.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 3:17pm
RRM

Ever wondered what the origins are of the leftist meme that the “pro-business right” when in power are a gang of thugs that turn the privatized provision of state services into a sordid little closed shop?

Look no further than Act’s David Garrotte threatening corrections staff who just wanted to turn up and give a submission to a select committee:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/5759722

Nat/Act Govt seems to be sending clear messages that little people who oppose their programme should expect to incur their wrath. Surely this isn’t what government by the people is about?

[DPF: For the record I don’t think the comments by David Garrett were helpful, appropriate or wise. And from the article the National Cmte Chairman thinks the same.]
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 3:29pm
Paul G. Buchanan

side show bob: you need to read Kiwipolitico a bit more carefully because we do not censor opinions and in fact entertain lively debates in the comment threads. You are welcome to join those debates. Just be aware that we simply do not tolerate personal attacks and abuse, something that is stated upfront in our comments policy. As a result we have deleted abusive posts from Lefties as well as Righties. And there is no jealousy with regards to KB, as we exist in a different niche in the blogosphere (and I, in fact, applaud DPF for his success with this blog seeing how much work goes into a collaborative effort like ours). As for the mood of the country, your guess is as good as mine but I do not think that it is that cut and dried.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 3:37pm
racer1

So Redbaiter, how does it feel to have Ann Coulter and Bill O’Reilly jump ship on the birthers?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 3:54pm
Gosman

Paul,

What are your views on wacky conspiracy theories then?

Do you allow people to spout these on your site without comment?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 4:00pm
MyNameIsJack

Nat/Act Govt seems to be sending clear messages that little people who oppose their programme should expect to incur their wrath. Surely this isn’t what government by the people is about?

Its not, but remember, democracy is anathema to Rodney “I Know Better than You” Hide and his bovver boys.

And what % of the vote did act get again? Seems to me there is far too much tail wagging this dog of a government.

Just goes to show, it doesn’t matter how much money you make as a gambler, being a succesful PM is a whole new game. Key needs to toughen up on those he appoints and annoints.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 4:01pm
Paul G. Buchanan

Gosman:

I saw that thread and can only state that the 9-11 nutters far overestimate the ability of the USG to engineer such an event and far underestimate the ability of the USG to cover up its failure(s) to prevent it. I imagine that we would cut things off at some point if people persisted with that line of thought (especially if not on-topic), but that is a group decision and I cannot speak for my colleagues. Normally when things get a little crazed we just let the thread die by not engaging any further.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 4:06pm
coventry

This guy deserves a DB and then some.

———————————————————–

Tuesday, 28 July, 2009 – 17:34

Wellington, July 28 NZPA – A father who assaulted a man who developed a relationship with his 13-year-old daughter has been fined $1000.

The 43-year-old man appeared before Judge Michael Behrens in Blenheim District Court yesterday.

The Marlborough Express reported that defence lawyer Michael Hardy Jones told the court that the May 5 assault happened after the man and his wife had tried other ways of keeping the 23-year-old man away from their daughter.

When the father realised a relationship had developed between his daughter and the man he initially went to the police, who were unable to help.

Assistance was then sought from Child Youth and Family, and then a church pastor who organised a meeting and the victim promised to end his contact with the girl.

The newspaper said that a few days later, on May 5, the defendant and his wife were driving to work when they saw their daughter who should have been at school walking hand-in-hand with the victim.

The father admitted approaching the victim and punching the younger man in the face, then on the ground, and then when he stood up. The man was not seriously injured.

Judge Behrens suppressed the names of the father and his family and the victim.

NZPA WGT mgr nb

———————————————————–

Perhaps we should have a whip around and help pay this poor guys fine ?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 4:08pm
Cerium

“also if you add his date of birth together and multiply it by 44 (being the 44th president) you get 528, which as we all know is only 138 less than 666 – the number of the beast!!!!!!”

I knew those who called him the 1 must be wrong.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 4:08pm
philu

bloody-hands bob said..

“..but what myself and many others are saying are more in line with the mood of the country,..”

hilarious..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 4:14pm
MyNameIsJack

coventry, the father is a dickhead who deserves the fine.

He should have belted his daughter, he would have had a valid defence under S59, preventing a child breaking the law.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 4:16pm
Gosman

Philu,

You haven’t given your opinion on the September the 11th conspiracy theories yet. surely someone as opinionated as yourself has a view on this?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 4:20pm
grumpyoldhori

A Town Hall conservative on the birthers
http://townhall.com/columnists/JohnHawkins/2009/06/30/3_reasons_to_stop_obsessing_over_obamas_birth_certificate

Why Obama will not release the long form, evil bastard 🙂

(Of course, if Barack Obama was born in Hawaii as he says, you might have some very basic questions. For example, why hasn’t he bent over backwards to dispel the notion that he may have been born elsewhere? Well, why would he at this point? He has a significant number of conservatives wasting enormous amounts of time on a side issue that can never bear any fruit and, as an added bonus, it makes them look somewhat unhinged to many Americans. When your political enemies are making fools of themselves, why stop them? )
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 4:52pm
philu

gosman..

can i suggest this list of 9/11 stories/links..?

http://whoar.co.nz/?s=9%2F11

that should answer yr question..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 5:06pm
Gosman

Ahhhh… so you are a Wack job Conspiracy nut just like Redbaiter.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 5:29pm
Paul G. Buchanan

I might add that the birthers are giving the 9-11 conspiracy types a good run for their lunatic money. But let it be clear: the birthers hate the idea of a progressive black man in the presidency and use the supposed foreign birth as their last straw; the 9-11 weirdos hate the USG because it is part of a grand Zionist/neocon/Trilateral Commission plot to take over the world and hide the truth about alien abductions.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 5:50pm
starboard

philu (4857) Vote: 1 2 Says:

July 29th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

can i suggest this list of 9/11 stories/links..?

no…fuck off ya lazy turd…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 5:53pm
philu

ahhh..another sucker ..who won’t even examine the evidence..

tell me gosman..

..how did it happen..?

..that a buillding that was not hit by any plane..

..collapsed in that same ‘controlled-demolition’ manner..?

..did you know one floor of this building was justice dept..?

..containing all the physical evidence for a raft of upcoming corruption cases..?

..what caused that building to explode..and collapse..?

..i repeat..it was hit by no plane..

..and how about the footage of a news reporter..

..relaying a press release to air..

..stating that this building had collapsed..

..and over her shoulder..out the window..

..is the building..still standing/not collapsed..

..now..just peeling back one layer..

..who supplied the reporter with the ‘news’ the building had collapsed..?

..before they..the supplier..could possibly know this building..not hit by any plane..

..was going to collapse..?

..this is just one of many strange/unanswerable..(?)..questions..

..i suppose you also believe that roosevelt didn’t know the japanese were going to attack pearl harbour..?

..eh..?

so..’whack job’..you reckon..?

..so..humour/indulge/enlighten/show how stupid i am..

..by telling me how come that building ..not hit by a plane..came down..?

..in that same controlled/demolition-manner..as the others..?

..not to mention that ‘press release’..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 6:00pm
Hurf Durf

Seems like the only people concerned about the birth certificate claptrap are the leftists. Change the record already, maybe to a soulful number by Skip Gates and Nancy Pelosi.

Speaking of Breakfast, I watched the last half hour before I left the house and I caught from Paulie’s excited splutterings that in Good Morning America they have a man to tell the man who makes the coffee to make the coffee. Then I smirked and thought “No wonder old media isn’t turning a profit.”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 6:03pm
starboard

…wheres Phil Goff Cough ?? ..havent heard a thing from him throughout this Bennett fiasco…lickin ya wounds there Fill?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 6:09pm
joeAverage

Just saw the fat flushed checked MEGA BUCK dole budger on tv $700 a week
FUCK AFTER 60 YEARS im tired of work how can i produce 3 sprogs get fat and retire ON YOUR COLLECTIVE BACKS ps why are dole bludgers FAT WITH FLUSHED CHEEKS i get it running to a australian bank to check OUR COLLECTIVE BANK BALANCEIESright you usless shit jb key, give give give JOHN BOY K its only my SWEAT
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 6:18pm
Patrick Starr

Moral of this story. Be safe -stay at home if you’re a complete idiot

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10587420
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 6:35pm
Rex Widerstrom

This is all very depressing. So how about we take time to marvel at the geeky looking MP who cancelled his engagement to a sexy Romanian pop singer to date a 21 year old underwear model with whom, he says, he has a “meeting of the minds”.

I knew there was a reason beyond just unbridled power, a ridiculous salary and a straospheric expense allowance for becoming an MP…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 6:35pm
Tauhei Notts

This is general debate so I think I can bring it up.
The Waikato Times reported today that the English are still looking into the death of Blair Peach thirty years ago.
I recall visiting my old pub in Loughborough Road, equidistant from the Stockwell, Oval and Brixton tube stations, in 1980. It had been my local when living nearby in 1976. Some regulars recognised the Kiwi and we got to talking about Peach. Two of them were strident in their claims that the real hero was a bloke, I think from Christchurch but I am unsure, who had been working in a south London pub when hooligans came in. He took them on, when all the English there lacked the courage. The poor blighter got killed for his efforts. That was about the time of the Peach death. My English friends admired that brave New Zealander. They had contempt for Peach who had gone looking for martyrdom and had eventually found it.
If any bloggers know the family of that brave New Zealander please tell them that he is still fondly remembered.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 6:50pm
philu

“..the 9-11 weirdos hate the USG because it is part of a grand Zionist/neocon/Trilateral Commission plot to take over the world and hide the truth about alien abductions..”

um..no paul..!

have you not been keeping up with the rising tide of questions/questioners..?

..if you could ‘put me right’ on those two questions in my 6.00pm..?

..namely..how did that building ‘come down’..when it was hit by no plane..?

..and that footage of the reporter relaying a press release on something before it happened..?

..as i said..if you could ‘put me right’ on just those two questions..?

..but there are a raft of unanswered/puzzling questions..

..not least the two i cited..

..i repeat..what brought that building down,,?

..but no..zionist/tri-lateral/alien thoughts have even entered my head..

..and i do believe they really went to the moon..

..(and i am surprised at such a redbaiter-style rejoinder from you..

..i think you need to do some more reading/examination of these many anomalies..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:14pm
philu

“..have even entered “..should be ‘have never even entered..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:19pm
philu

“..Hurf Durf (283) Vote: Add rating 2 Subtract rating 2 Says:
July 29th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

Seems like the only people concerned about the birth certificate claptrap are the leftists..”

are you calling red a ‘leftist’..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:26pm
Hurf Durf

No, I’m calling you a leftist. Keep up.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:36pm
Paul G. Buchanan

Phil: Even if there was a controlled demolition of the WTC complex (including the adjacent third building) in the interest of limiting the number of fatalities once the structural integrity of Towers 1 and 2 was compromised, that still does not suggest that the USG orchestrated the event as an excuse to impose some sort of neocon imperial project on the rest of the world (which failed anyway). And if–and I emphasize the word IF–the USG ordered the demolition for said purposes, you can be darn sure that it would cover up that decision (which would be a lot easier as it would involve a handful of people rather than the thousands required to orchestrate the entire event). I guess that on this one you and I will have to disagree, but surely you will admit that many of the 9-11 conspiracy types are a few cans short of a six pack.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:38pm
Gosman

I just love the fact that Philu was hassling Redbaiter about his conspiracy theory about Obama not being born in the US and what do we find out but that he is one of those who think September the 11th 2001 was an ‘inside’ job by the US government.

Classic!!!

BTW Philu does your conspiracy theory extend to one of the heads of the FDNY who evacuated the WTC7 building before it collapsed because he thought it was at risk?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 7:46pm
philu

“..Paul G. Buchanan (76) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
July 29th, 2009 at 7:38 pm

Phil: Even if there was a controlled demolition of the WTC complex (including the adjacent third building) in the interest of limiting the number of fatalities once the structural integrity of Towers 1 and 2 was compromised,..”

where is that coming from..?

are you saying crews had time to rig all three buildings for demolition..(even one that had not been hit by any plane..(or ‘collateral damage’..)..?

that’s a new one on me..

so..obviously that un-natural ‘controlled-demolition’ of those three (!) buildings has raised questions in your mind..?

..and you choose to ‘explain’ that away..by this mini-conspiracy’..and for what ‘reasons’ was this ‘mini-conspiracy..?

..surely if they did a controlled demolition to ‘save’ ajoining buildings etc..and were successful..

..they would be heroes..?

..i fail to see the logic in yr case there..

“..that still does not suggest that the USG orchestrated the event as an excuse to impose some sort of neocon imperial project on the rest of the world (which failed anyway)..”

i mean..i would take as an obvious explanation for ‘why’..?..

..iraq oil-reserves/imperial ambitions/justification for ‘finishing off’ saddam hussein..

..(i mean..never mind they weren’t even iraqis that were on the planes..?)

and paul..

..just one thing..

..how was it that the british television reporter filed that (not-yet-happened) building collapse story..?

..how/why was this press release given to her..

..and what does it say..?

..what questions does it raise..?

..and c’mon paul..!

..(just pulling back a bit here..)

if anyone has any idea of the perfidies of the american govts..(of all presidents)..surely it is you..?

..(and no..i don’t think oswald ..with his ‘magic-bullet’..killed j.f.k..how about you..?..)

..and as far as this 9/11 thing is concerned..

..all i know is that there are a raft of ‘unexplained/unexplainable..(save for (seeming) ‘conspiracy’ answers)..facts..

..but anyway..that tv report..?

..just for now..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:00pm
starboard

philu (4862) Vote: 1 1 Says:

July 29th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
“..have even entered “..should be ‘have never even entered..”

no one cares whore…its all shit you talk..you wank on in riddles…go to bed man..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:11pm
Paul G. Buchanan

Phil: I agree that there is a lot of anomalies in the event, but that tends to happen in most catastrophes. It could be that the buildings were pre-rigged because they contained secure sites of various sorts. The reporter may have been told this and then told to shut up. I do not know, and I was not there, but in this case I think that the simple explanation that a bunch of Saudi militants inspired by Osama and al-Zawahiri did the deed is all that suffices. That it became an excuse for Bush/Cheney to embark on their crusade does not mean that they orchestrated it. As I said before, do not underestimate the ineptitude of the Bush administration when it comes to warnings of an imminent attack using airplanes as guided missiles, or the impotence of the fig leaf air defenses that were in place as a result of the lack of action on those threats. Former NSC anti-terrorism expert Richard Clarke has the best word on both.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:14pm
philu

“..The reporter may have been told this and then told to shut up…”

no..the footage shows a reporter doing an earnest to-air report of this breaking news that this building has collapsed..

..and in the distance..

..is the building..

..standing..

..i just can’t get rid of/explain that one..

..and i repeat..

..i really think you should hold your nose..

..and have a closer look at those many many ‘anomalies’..

..btw..the first time i was told this 9/11 conspiracy-theory..

..i nearly fell on the floor..laughing at the person who told me..

..(for much those reasons you cite..and the reasons the moon-landing ‘happened’..namely keeping the secrets..)

..but further investigation..

..just turns/turned up more and more ‘anomalies’..

..and stilled that dismissive ‘tin-foil-hat’ laughter..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:31pm
Komata

Phil, Phil, Phil. sadly, I must echo MeneerCronje’s request and ask that you PLEASE use a form of the English language that we all understand. I and others would actually REALLY like to read what you write, and to engage in dialogue with you bit there are simply too many ‘dots’.
I guess being different and using your unique writng style gives you a buzz and makes you feel important, but can’t you see that you are missing-out on so much? The majority of your fellow-blogger’s simply bypass what you write and what is the point of writing something if it isn’t actually read? Your use of ‘dots’ was a great idea whwen you started-out and yes, it HAS got you attention, but now it’s all just so very passe’ and if you can’t be read (and are consequently ignored) then what is the point of having a voice? Seems to be a waste of effort really.

So please, if you don’t mind, Philu, start being ‘conventional’ – you might even get a few more ‘kindly’ answers if you do. Thanks.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:33pm
Steve

If any people should look at “whoar.co.nz” they will find that nobody coments.
Nobody cared yesterday, and nobody cared today, and nobody will care tomorrow.
BTW how much do we pay you Phool?
Nobody cares if you were here ages ago or in the future, just tell us how much you bleed off us
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:33pm
philu

spondre..!..stop trolling..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:33pm
Steve

..stupid prick..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:38pm
Steve

“whoar.co.nz”
..stupid prick..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:39pm
Steve

help me
..stupid prick..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:40pm
Steve

people read this you know
..stupid prick..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:42pm
Steve

big day tomorrow
..stupid prick..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 29, 2009 8:43pm

More comments:

1
2
›

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Media Law textbook

Bennett and the Privacy Act »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

Not how much but how well
Hompaddock
ACT’s new Red Tape Nark line in their Red Tape Palace
The Daily Blog
Open mike 22/11/2024
The Standard
Part 3, Australia’s Transition to Renewable Energy
No Minister
Defying cries of “transphobia”, the Washington Post calls for debate on whether trans women should participate in women’s sports
Utopia
Drawn
No Right Turn
Regulatory Reform: Timid and too easily tamed?
Not PC
Three minutes after midnight, police make arrest under new gang patch law – but the boot camp news is disappointing
Point of Order
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz