General Debate 26 July 2009

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Cerium

Do you think smacking is a part of good parental discipline?
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July 26, 2009 9:21am
Cerium

Do you think there are better alternatives to smacking for good parental discipline?
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July 26, 2009 9:21am
Brian Smaller

Do you think smacking is a part of good parental discipline?

Yes I do. Lots of parents need disciplining.
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July 26, 2009 9:26am
starboard

Cerium (322) Vote: 0 0 Says:

July 26th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Do you think smacking is a part of good parental discipline?

..Mind your own business…
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July 26, 2009 9:35am
MyNameIsJack

Cerium – do you think murder is part of a loving relationship?
starboard – …mind your own business…

Parenting is the business of the community, and inadequate parents need help. If that takes a smack to the upside of starboard’s head, then so be it.
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July 26, 2009 9:46am
MyNameIsJack

Menawhile, redbaiter is somewhere in Alaska, looking for his hero, Sarah No Ticker Palin. Sadly, she is no where to be found, having abandoned Alsaka the voters who put their trust in her.

…state legislators are scrambling to convene a special session to recover $28.6 million in federal energy funds that Palin rejected as one of her parting salutes to independence from Washington.

“In a democracy, politicians ask for the voters’ trust. To violate that trust by quitting in midstream suggests that for Palin, the voters — and more broadly, the citizens of Alaska — simply don’t count,” University of Alaska history professor Steve Haycox wrote Friday in the Anchorage Daily News.

Her nominee for attorney general, National Rifle Assn. board member Wayne Anthony Ross, in April became the first in state history to be rejected by the Legislature.

Legislators on both sides of the aisle were outraged when Palin threatened to veto about a third of the $900 million in federal stimulus money offered to Alaska. She wound up backing down,

And what would redbaiter make of Palin’s socialist beliefs?

…the governor’s moves to increase oil production taxes and champion a gas pipeline independent of two of the North Slope’s major producers.

Sarah No Ticker Palin and red No Intelligence Baiter – a match made in reddy’s dreams.
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July 26, 2009 9:52am
philu

this one is for red..

..yet more evidence that birthers are carpet/table-leg-chewing wingnuts..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/mccain-campaign-vetted-birther-rumors/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 10:08am
nickb

Phil, I would honestly love to read your site, but if your punctuation on it is anything like it is here, it will give me a migraine
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July 26, 2009 10:34am
Murray

Isn’t there a corner shop you should holding up at knifepoint phool?
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July 26, 2009 10:35am
starboard

MyNameIsJack (1054) 0 2 Says:

July 26th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Parenting is the business of the community, and inadequate parents need help. If that takes a smack to the upside of starboard’s head, then so be it.

Your a funny wee man Jack…on one hand you are saying inadequate parents need help ( the smackers ) but on the other you offer to smack me in the head? Why dont you run along and let the adults debate the issue…there’s a good boy.
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July 26, 2009 10:46am
nickb

Further to the Weatherston fallout and the editorial in the Herald:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10586618&pnum=2

I think i would support a degree based murder system, similar to the US. First degree would be a planned, premeditated killing, or intention to commit grievous bodily harm when such killing was likely.

Second degree would still amount to culpable homicde being murder in the Crimes Act now, but would include such murder as would fall inside the old common law ‘felony murder’ rule, like murders done recklessly in the course of a violent crime.

Third degree would broadly incorporate our manslaughter.

However in saying this, while I am supportive of the National government, I think the latest attempts to remove the provocation defense are a bit knee-jerk. s169 of the Crimes Act sets out the test for a defense of provocation “losing self-control’ etc. The Weatherston defense was perfectly entitled to use this, even though IMO it fell spectatcularly short of the real test of provocation. Just because one piece of murdering sludge has tried it on and failed, does not mean a very old common law (and now statutory) defense should be done away with because of a media-induced frenzy.

For the record, I believe, in a new system, Clayton Weatherston would undoubtedly be a first-degree murderer and deserve to be locked away for life.

F E Smith et al feel free to correct any error’s I may have made, I enjoy your posts on the subject.
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July 26, 2009 10:46am
backster

The only thing clear about this morning’s Q&A show was that Paul never smacked Millie when she needed correction. Now he is trying time out and counselling.
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July 26, 2009 11:21am
side show bob

You are full of it Philu, what a hypocrite, you come and here and preach. You try and pass yourself off as someone who is endowed with wisdom and in the same breath you are willing to call Orly Taitz unfit. Where are your qualifications? Who are you to critize someone else? And what standards would someone have to have to be deemed worthy?
I guess if they where a leftwing arse licking suckhole they would pass with flying colours.
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July 26, 2009 11:24am
Christopher

The Weatherston defense was perfectly entitled to use this, even though IMO it fell spectatcularly short of the real test of provocation.

Provocation allowed weatherston’s defence to drag sophie’s name through the mud. Without it, they would’ve just had to shut the fuck up, which in my view is all to the good.

In my view, true cases of provocation of the killed-my-child’s-rapist genus are best handled by discharging the assailant without conviction. In fact, I reckon anyone who does anything along those lines is fair game for anyone who wants to take a shot.
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July 26, 2009 11:26am
philu

this is the orly taitz..(or should that be ‘oily’ taitz) ..that bloody-hands-bob holds in such high esteem..

“….There are, of course, a whole lot of truly baffling things about the Birther movement and its theories.

But perhaps one of the most puzzling is this unanswered question: ..

.. If President Obama really were born in Kenya, why didn’t the McCain or Clinton campaigns dig up the evidence and publicize it?

Why has that task fallen to the ragtag crew that is the Birthers, ..

.. led now by Orly Taitz, a dentist/lawyer/real estate agent who got her law degree online ..

.. and is regularly admonished for having little, if any, idea ..

.. how to properly file her court papers?..”

(heh..!..)

yagottaluv that ‘got law degree online’..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 11:30am
hubris

I nearly had a fit when I read this.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2674892/2-1m-of-charity-money-goes-to-marketing-firm
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July 26, 2009 11:31am
MyNameIsJack

Just one more reason why the sooner religion is banend the safer society will be.

“A US man accused of killing his daughter by praying instead of seeking lifesaving medical help considered her illness “a test of his faith,” a prosecutor has told jurors. ”

Well, I guess both he and his useless fucked up god failed, and one more child died a painful, needless death in the cause of proving god’s love. How fucked up can anyone be?

Maybe as fucked up is this other religious nutbar.

” Lured by promises of chewing gum then allegedly raped in a shed by four boys barely older than her, an 8-year-old Liberian girl is now in foster care and living with strangers after being shunned by her family.”

Yes, she’s 8, she’s been raped and its her fault, she has brought shame on her family. Fucking bullshit. The shame is their failure to act AS a family.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/2674842/Father-saw-sickness-as-test-of-his-faith

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iuEVz2wzCQhOuO9806ZEyMzCdu2QD99L6A700
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July 26, 2009 11:35am
MyNameIsJack

hubris (59) Vote: 0 0 Says:

July 26th, 2009 at 11:31 am
I nearly had a fit when I read this.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2674892/2-1m-of-charity-money-goes-to-marketing-firm

Why have a fit? Its a perfect example of capitalism in action. As soon as a charity corporatises any aprt of its operation, this is exactly what to expect.
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July 26, 2009 11:40am
backster

Stephen ANDERSON who shot down ten people killing six at Raurimu in 1997 and was found not guilty due to insanity has been cured to such a degree that he has been released.(Stuff today).
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July 26, 2009 11:46am
thedavincimode

Oh Borker, I was going to say something … but I just can’t be bothered.
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July 26, 2009 11:48am
thedavincimode

… and Phil, is getting a degree online a bit like imagining you’ve got one?
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July 26, 2009 11:50am
hubris

# MyNameIsJack (1057)
July 26th, 2009 at 11:40 am

hubris (59) Vote: 0 0 Says:

I nearly had a fit when I read this.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2674892/2-1m-of-charity-money-goes-to-marketing-firm

Why have a fit?

…sigh…
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July 26, 2009 11:53am
hubris

… and Phil, is getting a degree online a bit like imagining you’ve got one?

Yes, it’s like coming here and pretending you have real friends.
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July 26, 2009 11:55am
MyNameIsJack

Let’s see redbaiter describe this is asome sort of commie plot.

http://townhall.com/cartoons/cartoonist/NateBeeler/2009/07/9
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July 26, 2009 11:57am
philu

“..# side show bob (1586) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
July 26th, 2009 at 11:24 am

You are full of it Philu..”

(you could probably build a constituency for that..especially from the queer-as folks that lurk in the shadows..of this particular fetid swamp..eh..?

“.. what a hypocrite..”

um..!..what do you feel i am being ‘hypocritical about..?

“.. you come and here and preach. ..”

um..!..sometimes i come here to try to present the evidence for people to use their inate intelligence to see either the errors of their/our ways..

..or better ways for us to do things..it’s as simple as that..

..and often/mostly it’s a case of pointing out the bleeding obvious..

..to often..the willfully ignorant..

..of course..sometimes i come just for a larf..eh..?

..to prick pomposities..

..to counter the bullshit rightwing fairy tales..

(i do what i can..)

..you ..as just one example of many..often deliver.eh..?

…(esp. in yr more choleric moments..)..eh..?

“..You try and pass yourself off as someone who is endowed with wisdom ..”

..um..!..no..see above..esp..bleeding obvious/commonsense/willfully igorant..

“..and in the same breath you are willing to call Orly Taitz unfit..”

um..!..yr confusing the message with the messanger..eh..?..(think..speech-marks’..let them be yr guide to differentiate..

orly taitz could be the best thing since sliced bread..meh..!..once again..message/messanger..eh..?

“.. Where are your qualifications? ..”..(ma hons(2nd class..(i had a new baby as well as a final year)..

..a few years at bfm..and a life that hasn’t been ‘boring’..

..how are yours..aside from torturing/abusing/killing animals ..to make money..all yr miserable life..?..anything else..?

“..Who are you to critize someone else? ..”..(tho answers..democracy/free-speech..”

..and hey..!..give the tone/timbre of yr ‘criticism’..who are you to criticise a criticiser..?

“..And what standards would someone have to have to be deemed worthy?..”

heaps and heaps of standards there..bloodyhands bob..

..but one who exults in their barbarism towards helpless sentient beings..

..isn’t one of them..eh..?

“..I guess if they where a leftwing arse licking suckhole they would pass with flying colours…”

yeah right..tell that to the greens/labourites who i regularly pour acid on..eh..?

i am non-denominational/non-ideological in the face of idiocies..

..and funnily enough there..bloody hands bob..

..i spurn/scorn both those failed ideologies..

..and..in terms simple enough for you to understand..

..i can use the ..some would say cliche..but i prefer truism..

..’neither left nor right..

..but out in front..”

..(thanks for asking..eh..?..)

our problems ..now and in the future..aren’t going to be solved by looking back at the already proven failed experiments of the last century..

..basically..almost everyrthing needs to be up-ended/re-examined..

..with all past patterns/conceprtions put to one side..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 11:58am
nickb

Yea I agree with you to an extent there. As someone who has considered the possibility of being a criminal lawyer, cases such as these turn my stomach.. but the lawyer is duty-bound to obey his client’s instructions.
That though would be a true case of provocation, and would clearly meet the test in the Crimes Act. What Ias trying to say was that we shouldn’t rush to hysteria because one crim tried it on and failed spectacularly. It was clearly not provocation in the legal sense (or any sense based on the evidence)
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July 26, 2009 12:01pm
side show bob

You totally missed my point Phil. I really couldn’t give a fat rat’s arse who Orly Taitz is, it’s the first time I have ever heard of her. But you have no problem telling the world she is a charlatan and is unworthy. I’m simply asking what gives you the right to put shit on someone else when you are hardly over endowed with spare brain cells.

Jackass you fool, leave religion out of it. Both cases have sweet fuck all to do with religion but more to do with ignorant, self serving human beings. Do you honestly think for one minute that if their was no such think as religion we would not be cursed with these morons and bad bastards. And it you do think this is the fault of religion you are very naive my friend.
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July 26, 2009 12:06pm
philu

and to further counter the charges of my ‘leftwing’ bias..

here is a poem i wrote a couple of days ago..

..it looks at where we are now..

..and back at the ‘works’/results..

..from nine years of labour-rule..

it’s called..

‘the kids up north have still got rotten teeth..

..but hey..!..helen’s at the u.n…eh..?..”

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/commentwhoarthe-kids-up-north-have-still-got-rotten-teethbut-heyhelens-at-the-uneh/

(with apologies/respect to gil scott-heron..whose (brilliant) ‘whiteys’ on the moon”..was the direct inspiration..in all ways..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

(and i would submit this is the first time ‘eh..?’..has been used in the title of a new zealand poem..?..)
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July 26, 2009 12:08pm
Shunda barunda

“The only thing clear about this morning’s Q&A show was that Paul never smacked Millie when she needed correction. Now he is trying time out and counselling.”

And Paul had the friggin nerve to have an opinion on smacking, he is probably one of the most useless examples of a parent in the country.
His daughter is screwed up possibly due to his parenting (or lack there of).
Stick to talking crap Paul, its the only thing you’re good at.
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July 26, 2009 12:15pm
hubris

Stick to talking crap Paul, its the only thing you’re good at.

Shit, I agree with something you said!
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July 26, 2009 12:17pm
lofty

philu, I took 1 minute of my valuable time and against my better judgement to read your “poem”

Does the phrase 1 minutes silence mean anything to you?

I understand the sentiments but…. I reckon you will have to publish it yourself…eh

Oh dear….eh..
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July 26, 2009 12:22pm
Bok

MNIJ said:
“Just one more reason why the sooner religion is banend the safer society will be.”

I think that would just be plain unfair. Global warming alarmist and Al Gore disciples, as well as socialist have every right to pray to their voodoo gods.
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July 26, 2009 12:23pm
Murray

“The sooner all religion except socialism in banned” is what he meant to say.
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July 26, 2009 12:25pm
Paul Marsden

Its Paul Holmes that needs a good smacking. What an arrogant little twerp. I felt sorry for him over the antics of his daughter Millie, but its easy to see he’s (was), part of the problem.
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July 26, 2009 12:40pm
philu

i have..

it’s on a website called whoar.co.nz

..and no..the term ‘poem’ is used at its’ loosest..

..it’s definitely a polemic..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 12:41pm
peterwn

Brian

The following appeared in Mad years back:
Prominent educationalist speaks on corperal punishment – Before hitting them, pupils should reason with their teachers.
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July 26, 2009 12:42pm
philu

i mean..far be it for me to defend paul holmes..

..(tho’ he was effective this morning..laughing at the wild-eued madness of mccoskie..and whoever it was..who instigated this referendum..)

..but you lot really just pull this stuff out of yr arseholes..eh..?

..about his ‘parenting’..?..f.f.s..!

you knuckle-draggers are experts on that too..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 12:45pm
Bok

jesus talk about delusions of grandeur…
A poem? You cant write and you are creating?
What a joke.

Your intellect is about that of an 8 year old, your ego such that you “developed a writing stylle..” WTF? You lie about degrees..

You call yourself an environmentalist and a green, yet you starve your animal of it’s natural nutrition. Your god complex would have been amusing if it was not so sad.

And as for your use to society… well.

You are a spindly, sickly little man (short arse syndrome is why you keep walking straight into sucker punches by just about any poster here. FFS I have seen Dada4Justice kick your arse here. That is like the all blacks losing to Romania.)
You look nearly 80 but tell us you and your strapping lad are healthy.

Phil, if you think what you do to your dog is anything else than cruelty and if what you see when you look at in the mirror looks anything else then a shriveled up leech on society, I want to suggest that you get parenting and nutritional help for your son. because if you think you are on a par or better than olympic athletes (the swindell twins who you mocked as being not up to your standard) then i suggest a”Strapping lad” can mean anything.

You link whore here because no-one reads your blog, just as no-one listened to you pirate radio station where you stole others work for your benefit. Other stations pay royalties to artists..

But hey, you know all about being an artist dont you mr poet.

To every-one else, I apologise (and especially to DPF) I should not waste my time on the oxygen thief.

But when some-one who has brought nothing of value to the community, other than draining money that could have been used to save lives, feed people who through no fault of their own have hit hard times, sits in judgement of those who actually does something, one has to speak up.
I had the misfortune to waste time meeting you once.. probably the most underwhelming event of my fifty years on earth..
PhilU you are lower than shark shit, and that you leech, is below sea level. Now I have to go and have another shower….FFS
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July 26, 2009 12:45pm
peterwn

What a gas!
See: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2672638/Rubbish-gas-leaves-users-cold

So it turns out that in lower NI bottled LPG is not fit for the purpose since it contains a significant amount of butane. There is nothing wrong with the butane with respect to its energy content but the stuff liquifies at about 0 degrees C. Hence on a cold frosty mornings all the propane is used first and the butane does not boil off quickly enough to give you a decent shower or cook the bacon and eggs.

The industry’s attitude seems to be ‘tough!’. Jetstar all over again?
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July 26, 2009 12:50pm
philu

“..side show bob (1588) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
July 26th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

You totally missed my point Phil. I really couldn’t give a fat rat’s arse who Orly Taitz is, it’s the first time I have ever heard of her. But you have no problem telling the world she is a charlatan and is unworthy…”

obviously you are still unable to distinguish between message..and messanger..

..do you have someone/anyone who could help explain it to/for you..?

..and hey..!..the fact that someone..a ‘leader’ of a movement/cause..

..claims a law degree they bought on-line..

..is kinda relative..

..eh..?

and..how did she come by her dentistry qualifications..eh..?

‘open wide..!”

“.. I’m simply asking what gives you the right to put shit on someone else ..”

(see message/messanger/fake law degree..)

..”..when you are hardly over endowed with spare brain cells…”

d’yawanna i.q. shootout/showdown..?

..eh..?

..(crosswords at twenty paces..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 12:56pm
Murray

The armed offender drug addict benfit bludger is calling other people knuckle draggers now. The left are just so irony impaired.
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July 26, 2009 1:00pm
philu

and how are those ‘obesity-issues’ going there..?

..bok..?

..still knecking that flesh/fat/blood like its’ going out of style..?

are you at the extra-big toilet-seat stage yet..?

..and..do you still begin every sentence with ‘i’..)

(i was gonna ask my 11 yr old dog her answer to you..

..on the dog-allegations…

..but she is lying in her armchair..in the sun..snoring..

..so i thought..best just leave her..eh..?

and hey..!..her coat is so shiny/bright..

..i need to wear shades..

(shame you didn’t like the poem/polemic..

..it is a tad ‘laboured’..

..i know..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 1:03pm
Alan Wilkinson

Give your gas bottle a hot water bottle then.
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July 26, 2009 1:06pm
Paul Marsden

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before but had once failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. The Class agreed!

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.

The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward and shares it with those not earning it, no one will try or want to succeed.

It just doesn’t get any simpler than this.
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July 26, 2009 1:16pm
philu

oh..and just a recent thing about my son..who bok..and others..’cos they really have nothing to say..feel they can attack/abuse/make up stuff..

.. at will..

..a couple of days ago..he told me that they are doing a major essay thing..in english..

..and that they have been asked to do first drafts..and hand them in..for guidance/instruction..

..before doing their rewrites/final submission..

..he handed his first draft in..

..and was told..that’s fine..you don’t need to do a rewrite..”

how could i not be totally chuffed/spontaneously chuckling by/from that..?

..eh..?

(both of my children are writers..good writers..)

anyway..the eldest dog has woken up..

..and wants ‘park’..

see ya..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 1:20pm
thedavincimode

… or plonk it next to the fire …
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July 26, 2009 1:22pm
philu

“..It just doesn’t get any simpler than this…”

no..it dosen’t ..does it paul..

..that’s up there with yr pronouncments on the fathering qualities..or not..of paul holmes..?

..eh..?

..mind you..rightwing politics/economics are quite simple really..eh..?

..pretty much..just fuck over/grab from..

..as many people as possible..

..eh..?

..so i guess..simple tales satify/feed/’qualify'(?) simple peoples/souls/minds..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 1:23pm
thedavincimode

… that’s great Phil. Hopefully they can teach him how to spell W O R K because you won’t. Otherwise he’ll be able to enjoy a good read while he sits next to you on the couch …
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July 26, 2009 1:26pm
MyNameIsJack

Give your gas bottle a hot water bottle then.
Paul Marsden (554) Vote: 1 1 Says:

July 26th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before but had once failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

A nice little fable, but its not what socialism is about. Its what capitalism wants socialism to be.

You will find many stories of democratic socialism in action and with great results.

[DPF: In that case please provide an example of sucessful countries where the state owns and controls the means of production and distribution etc – the key tenet of socialism]
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July 26, 2009 1:38pm
Bok

Keep up DPF. MNIJ called for religion to be banned and then you ask for a miracle
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July 26, 2009 1:44pm
paradigm

More confirmation of what we already knew: Jim Anderton probably won’t stand next election.
Apparently now he is telling his party supporters that they should join labour, as “the best way to promote his party”. More likely he knows the party will fold as soon as he retires.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10586571
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July 26, 2009 1:53pm
thedavincimode

Paradigm

He can barely stand now. That’s why he was parked on the lawn at the home with a rug over his legs for the first couple of months of the post election parliament.
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July 26, 2009 2:24pm
Viking2

Why its so bloody cold that the gas won’t work and Globall Warming is extinct.
(Except for Nick Smith John Keys the Greens and DPF) HehE.

Missing Its Spots: ‘Sun may be on verge of falling into an extended slumber’ cause extended cooling

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/scien … .html?_r=1
By Kenneth Chang, New York Times

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32&p=23211#p23211
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July 26, 2009 2:31pm
hubris

Paul Marsden (554) Says:
July 26th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before but had once failed an entire class.

Funny. On this site he was from Texas Tech:

http://blackconservative.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=890897%3ABlogPost%3A5633&page=1#comment-890897_Comment_6027

And at this stie it was about Obama’s socialism:

http://www.al.com/forums/watercooler/index.ssf?artid=24001

He certainly gets around, that professor.
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July 26, 2009 2:37pm
nickb

Phil the layout of your posts, especially at 11.58, give me motion sickness

MNIJ, re DPF’s question to you about successful socialist states, still waiting on an answer.

P.S North Korea is not an acceptable answer
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July 26, 2009 2:58pm
nickb

On another note, does anybody notice the irony and hypocrisy on the Green party’s positioning on civil liberties?

When a fashionable cause like Ahmed Zaoui come along, they gladly play politics and bemoan the states treatment of him. They also rail against big bad government’s banning of other fashionable causes, like marijuana prohibition.

However, the list of things they want to ban would reach to the moon and back. They would create a monstrosity of a socialist government, and high wage earners would probably have upwards of 50% of their wages taken from them. They would control how private property owners used their land, and they voted for laws taking away free speech rights in the form of the EFA.

Note to the left: Stop using the idea of ‘freedom’ merely when is suits your agenda; you are either for more government power over our lives, or less. And you on the left, however you word the issues, are only for more.
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July 26, 2009 3:33pm
nickb

Ok philu fixed your 1.23 for you

..mind you..leftwing politics/economics are quite simple really..eh..?

..pretty much..just fuck over/grab from..

..as many people as possible..

eh?
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July 26, 2009 3:40pm
MyNameIsJack

nickb (25) Vote: 1 0 Says:

July 26th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Phil the layout of your posts, especially at 11.58, give me motion sickness

MNIJ, re DPF’s question to you about successful socialist states, still waiting on an answer.

Unlike you, I have a life and do not spend my entire existence here. A beautiful sunny day has seen me out and about for a bit.

[DPF: In that case please provide an example of sucessful countries where the state owns and controls the means of production and distribution etc – the key tenet of socialism]

I thought you were a little more intelligent than your average cheer leader here. Obviously not. It is not state ownership, it is worker ownership that is a key tenet.

Workers’ co-operatives have worked in the past and will work in the future.

For a modern day example of this in practice you need look no further than the Mondragon co-operative. It is a model that can be replicated and enhanced.

This, not Tony Blair, is the true Third Way.

[DPF: Hell I’m all for workers being shareholders in the busineses they work for, or setting up co-ops. Not all of them suceed, but as you say Mondragon does well.

If you are saying socilaim does not work when implemented by a country, but can work when done voluntarily by a group of people, I can agree with you. A Kibbutz is another example.

But again that is very very different from socialism at a country level – something that has never been sucessfully done.

And I note your workers co-op survives and thrives in a competitive market economy against competitors. As it should be]
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July 26, 2009 3:52pm
nickb

MNIJ, 25 posts to 1061 does suggest you spend far more of your time here than I do.

Which is not surprising being such a rabid communist, as you are most likely on the benefit or some kind of researcher in a left wing political party, whose job description includes attacking the evil capitalists on blogs all day.

Ok so have just read your answer to DPF’s question, which totally dodged the issue of a country having ever implemented socialism successfully.
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July 26, 2009 4:13pm
Hurf Durf

Just another day on General Debate – phool dribbles out his usual and in a wave of genius decides to take up poetry and jackoff continues his bizarre obsession with Palin and insists that democratic socialism actually works (tell that to continental Europe and California where the entitlement crisis and demographic problems is about to hit them smack in the face).

Meanwhile, on the sane side of the spectrum, National continues to hold its strong gap against Labour and in the UK the Conservatives have smashed Labour in a byelection which turned a Labour majority of 5,459 to a Tory majority of 7,348. A crushing defeat.

And, once again, while people like Jackoff and philu still exist, I’m going to post this link to demonstrate that their precious socialism is in fact regressive and backward, and will keep on doing so until they and the millions of other deadheads get it into their thick skulls.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/07/14/north.korea.capitalism/
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July 26, 2009 5:59pm
philu

btw..bok..

..the swindell sisters (and that squash person) are meat/fat/blood-pimps..

..end of story..

..and that oh so breathless..chef..

i mean..who the fuck is he..?

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 6:22pm
philu

hurf..in 4776 comments…show me where i have praised the north korean style/type of government/political system..?

(psstt..!..it’s all in yer head..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 26, 2009 6:25pm
Hurf Durf

Different shitty branch of the same disgusting tree, fertilised by the soil of envy, guilt and failure.
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July 26, 2009 6:39pm
starboard

whore..you really are a bore….why dont you just fuck up and die…eh??
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July 26, 2009 6:54pm
Steve

MyNameIsSomething we are waiting

Your answer to DPF’s question is …..
Don’t digress, just answer
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July 26, 2009 6:56pm
AG

Hey Redbaiter,

Stanley Fish has a column that talks about you!
http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/henry-louis-gates-deja-vu-all-over-again/?em

“TV commentators, laboring to explain the unusual candor and vigor of Obama’s initial comments on the Gates incident, speculated that he had probably been the victim of racial profiling himself. Speculation was unnecessary, for they didn’t have to look any further than the story they were reporting in another segment, the story of the “birthers” — the “wing-nuts,” in Chris Matthews’s phrase — who insist that Obama was born in Kenya and cite as “proof” his failure to come up with an authenticated birth certificate. For several nights running, Matthews displayed a copy of the birth certificate and asked, What do you guys want? How can you keep saying these things in the face of all evidence?

He missed the point. No evidence would be sufficient, just as no evidence would have convinced some of my Duke colleagues that Gates was anything but a charlatan and a fraud. It isn’t the legitimacy of Obama’s birth certificate that’s the problem for the birthers. The problem is again the legitimacy of a black man living in a big house, especially when it’s the White House. Just as some in Durham and Cambridge couldn’t believe that Gates belonged in the neighborhood, so does a vocal minority find it hard to believe that an African-American could possibly be the real president of the United States. “
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July 26, 2009 7:26pm
Hurf Durf

Chris Matthews and Stanley Fish are moonbat loons (Stanley Fish moreso because he is a Marxist; Matthews is just a cretin). You really could have found a better source than that. I love it when left wing racists use racist theory to cover their Sun God’s supreme fuckup, especially when they presume incorrectly about cities they demonise:

“Cambridge was ranked as one of the most liberal cities in America.[15] Its residents jokingly refer to it as “The People’s Republic of Cambridge.”[16] Its FY 2007 residential property tax rate, $7.48 per $1000 of assessed valuation, is one of the lowest in Massachusetts. Cambridge enjoys the highest possible bond credit rating, AAA, with all three Wall Street rating agencies.[17]

Cambridge is noted for its diverse population, both racially and economically. Residents, known as Cantabrigians, range from affluent MIT and Harvard professors to working-class families to immigrants. The first legal applications in America for same-sex marriage licenses were issued at Cambridge’s City Hall.[18]”
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July 26, 2009 7:32pm
hubris

Hurf Durf (259) Vote: Add rating 3 Subtract rating 0 Says:
July 26th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

Just another day on General Debate

Yeah, the right wing equivalent of Barrens Chat. The similarity is startling.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Barrens_Chat
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July 26, 2009 8:54pm
Hurf Durf

“Barrens chat is like a stupidity centrifuge, distilling the unexpurgated banal thoughts of a thousand morons into a hardened impenetrable lump of smacktardery, spilling endlessly across the bottom of your screen.””

Don’t be daft, hubris, this ain’t The Stranded.
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July 26, 2009 9:32pm

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