General Debate 22 July 2009

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Glutaemus Maximus

How long will Phil Goff stay Leader of the Opposition?

A decade at least, I hope. Phil, if you ever read this. “Don’t change a thing!”
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July 22, 2009 7:54am
Nomestradamus

Philu:

I may just have found a job for you:

Company: Redflame Media
Location: Auckland City, Auckland
Type: Full time, Permanent
Pay and benefits: Various roles – income varies widely
Listed: Wed, 15 Jul
Your reference #: Would Like To Work

If you live in the Auckland area and are looking for a job – then new TV One show Would Like To Work wants to hear from you.

Have you struggled to find a job or get through the interview process? Have you been made redundant? Need to return to the work force after a long absence? Are you stuck in a rut with your current employer? Or think that your current skills are not relevant to a career or job change.

We want to hear from people from all walks of life, looking for any kind of work – whether you think you’re qualified or not or have the relevant experience.

We’ll teach you everything you need to know for your best chance to hear the words “You’re hired!”

Real jobs are at stake in a variety of industries and occupations, around the Auckland region.

APPLY NOW for your chance to be part of the programme at http://www.redflame.co.nz

Well, Philu, you certainly fit into the “all walks of life” category, but I’m not sure if you’re “looking for any kind of work” – an obvious prerequisite for going on the show.

What do you say? 🙂
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July 22, 2009 8:06am
Banana Llama

Dam.

That is some serious win Nomestradamus.
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July 22, 2009 8:13am
Lipo

Interesting article http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10585849&pnum=2 about people getting hit by car or buses.
When I was in Hawaii a few years ago, everyone walked on the footpaths and crosses at crossings. A Police car flashed his siren at us as we crossed the road in between crossing points. Do they still have a Jaywalking law there?
I suppose my point here is that in New Zealand people seem to think they have a right to walk or cross the road whenever they feel like it. When they get hit by a vehicle the driver seems to get the blame.
Now I have sympathy for the person hit in this instance but I have a lot more for the driver of the bus. The article refers to police charges pending on the drivers. Why? As far as I know they were driving along the road, the drivers didn’t run up onto the footpath or anything like that. A Pedestrian walked into the path of the vehicle
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July 22, 2009 8:17am
Cerium

Whether you believe in “climate change” or not, whether you believe we need to reduce pollution or not, carbon trading is likely to be a fact of life.

If you want to be informed this is a worthwhile site: http://www.env-econ.net/environmental_economics_1.html

(about environmental economists)
“The right wing always suspects you of being a tree-hugging environmentalist and the left wing accuses you of being a money-grubbing capitalist.” Source: WSJ.
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July 22, 2009 8:19am
bearhunter

Nomestradamus: Good luck with getting Phool a job. The idle cnut wouldn’t sleep under the same roof as a shovel.
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July 22, 2009 8:22am
starboard

..nor would he work in an iron lung…eh?? eh??
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July 22, 2009 8:25am
philu

obama and mccain have worked together to defeat the military-industrial complex..

..and mccain is citing this victory as “..“probably the most impactful amendment that I have seen in this body on almost any issue.”

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/senate-beats-back-military-industrial-complex-in-historic-voteobama-and-mccain-join-forces-to-defeat-the-military-industrial-complexgo-figure/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 22, 2009 8:27am
bearhunter

“..nor would he work in an iron lung…eh?? eh??”

He wouldn’t get out of the bed unless the work got in beside him.
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July 22, 2009 8:29am
Murray

The druged out armed offender speaks.

This is a typical labour party supporter, nothings his fault and we all owe him a living. You just keep talking phool, you’re the best advertising Key could have ever hoped for.
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July 22, 2009 8:30am
Cerium

“in New Zealand people seem to think they have a right to walk or cross the road whenever they feel like it”

Yes, there are quite a few things people do without any care about being criminalised. Maybe we need another petition:

Should jaywalking as a part of good “please yourself what you do” attitude be a criminal offence in NZ?
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July 22, 2009 8:31am
peterwn

Many years ago, Auckland traffic cops blew whistles at jaywalkers in Queen Street. They also did parking enforcement then (every parking ticket went to court then, but only drivers could be ‘pinged’) and were well placed to deal with jay walking.

Someone was killed a few years ago by a bus on the Willis / Lambton corner. It was quite apparent from the media report that the deceased had kamikaze tendencies.
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July 22, 2009 8:47am
KiwiGreg

God you guys – I “jaywalk” all the time – there is nothing wrong with safley crossing the road anywhere you damn well please.

..and I’ve never been stopped or spoken to by any cop, anywhere.
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July 22, 2009 8:56am
Lipo

KiwiGreg “God you guys – I “jaywalk” all the time – there is nothing wrong with safley crossing the road anywhere you damn well please”

I didn’t have a problem with Jaywalking, I had a problem with Media, Police & Society blaming the driver when some idiot stepped out in front of their vehicle
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July 22, 2009 9:04am
Brian Smaller

Aren’t you allowed to cross a street anywhere if you are more than 25m from a crossing? Not that I worry. I always look before stepping onto the domain on tons of metal that can crush me.

Peterwn – I saw a woman hit on Lampton Quay by a bus some years ago. She literally walked directly in front of it. It was big, noisy and yellow, and she didn’t even see it.
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July 22, 2009 9:15am
Buggerlugs

Listening to Radio Pravda this morning I thought Brenda Pilott of the PSA had become a presenter as she was on every 30 seconds whinging. Nice to see the old Labour Party line being trumpeted at every opportunity once again by the national broadcaster.

If they’re looking for efficiencies in the public sector, I suggest a sharp stick up the ringpiece of all PSA members at Radio New Zealand House for a start. There’s partisan reporting, and then there’s out and out propaganda. Radio Pravda has gone for the latter.
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July 22, 2009 9:19am
Brian Smaller

Buggerlugs – I stopped listening to national radio years ago. Drove me mad listening to the non-stop Labour Love Fest. Sports radio and The coast are my set stations now. I agree – get rid of the whole lot of them, or beter yet, make their pay dependent on ratings.
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July 22, 2009 9:45am
kiwipolemicist

This is shameless advertising, but I genuinely think that some of you more philosophical folk will be interested in reading about the true agenda behind social contract theory. This is relevant to us because social contract theory is behind a lot of what the government does today, and I found that doing the research for this post was very illuminating.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/what-is-a-social-contract/
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July 22, 2009 9:50am
philu

“..Sports radio and The coast are my set stations now..”

that explains a lot..brian..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 22, 2009 10:03am
kiwipolemicist

Lipo @ 8:17:

Thanks for the link. Did you see that two months after completing the investigation the police haven’t decided if they’ll charge the driver? This is despicable.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/police-should-make-a-decision-and-stop-the-torture/
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July 22, 2009 10:03am
MyNameIsJack

An independent investigator has found evidence that Governor Sarah Palin may have violated ethics laws by accepting private donations to pay her legal debts.

The report obtained by The Associated Press says Palin is securing unwarranted benefits and receiving improper gifts through the Alaska Fund Trust, set up by supporters.

An investigator for the state Personnel Board says in his July 14 report that there is probable cause to believe Palin used or attempted to use her official position for personal gain because she authorised the creation of the trust as the “official” legal defence fund.

So long, its been good to know ya,

so long, its been good to know ya.
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July 22, 2009 10:14am
Glutaemus Maximus

I do believe that Sarah Palin has no problem with showing the World, her American Birth Certificate though.

Just why won’t “The One”.

Finding the incessant stalling, and obfusacation a tad worrying actually.
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July 22, 2009 10:24am
cha

It’s Not Sarah’s Fault…Just Ask Her
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July 22, 2009 10:38am
kaya

Is this kiwiblog or kiwipolemicist’s blog ffs??
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July 22, 2009 10:49am
s.russell

kiwipolemicist,

I believe you are misinterpreting Rousseau, possibly because you are interpreting his words according to modern norms rather than those of 250 years ago. He was arguing for something that has become so deeply embedded in the modern concept of the state that we now take it for granted, so much so that when we read his words now we think they must be arguing for something else.

My own summary of what he says of “the social contract” is: “Everyone has the same rights, and those rights are determined by the collective of all (the state)”.

How exactly would we or should we have things differently? Who else but the collective of all/ state / whole community would be the arbiter of what rights people have?

Essentially, Rousseau argues for democracy: the worst possible form of government, except for all the alternatives.
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July 22, 2009 10:51am
side show bob

For God’s sake, get a life jackass you are like that bleating fool Philin who was on the breakfast show crying crocodile tears about the nasty Mr Brash and that evil John Key. You lot are like lost lambs that walk up and down the fence line bleating.
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July 22, 2009 10:53am
Youth Against Child Abuse

Youth Against Child Abuse NZ is trying to canvass ideas by which we can reduce child abuse in NZ

The ‘Anti-smacking’ law has failed. NZ must do something which works.

Ex United Future MP and 2008 National Candidate, Marc Alexander, gives his ideas. http://yaca.org.nz/?p=27

What do you think?
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July 22, 2009 10:59am
kaya

Why is the jury taking so long in the killer Weatherston case?
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July 22, 2009 11:05am
kaya

Apparently someone went and woke the jury up, they are on their way back. Should be interesting to see if the result goes against him will they immediately lodge an appeal. Is this Abblet Kerr person doing legal aid or privately?
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July 22, 2009 11:12am
cha

The jury is back……..waiting

edit, bugger, ya beat me to it kaya
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July 22, 2009 11:13am
kaya

Weatherston is a murderer.
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July 22, 2009 11:23am
wreck1080

woohooo, wetherston is guilty of murder. Only hope for a sentence where he will die in jail.
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July 22, 2009 11:24am
kaya

cha – I’m sharp today…. 🙂

(a rare event, trust me)
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July 22, 2009 11:24am
kiwipolemicist

s.russell:

He was arguing for something that has become so deeply embedded in the modern concept of the state that we now take it for granted

That is my point precisely: my post was written for the purpose of showing the authoritarian agenda behind what is now considered to be a normal part of statehood.

My own summary of what he says of “the social contract” is: “Everyone has the same rights, and those rights are determined by the collective of all (the state)”.

Rousseau sums it up thus:
Each of us puts his person and all his power in common under the supreme direction of the general will, and, in our corporate capacity, we receive each member as an indivisible part of the whole.

Sounds evil to me – note the “supreme direction”.

Who else but the collective of all/ state / whole community would be the arbiter of what rights people have?

As I said in my post “The trouble with democracy”, the “whole community” is a fiction because democracy is mob rule. I don’t want the mob that rules – or anyone else for that matter – deciding what rights I do and don’t have because at that point freedom is lost.

I believe that each person intrinsically possesses personal and property rights, and that initiating violence against those is illegitimate/criminal (the non-aggression axiom). Those two rights are all you need, and if I had it my way they’d be the basis of our legal system (it’s not a radical idea, more of a restoration).

(I won’t put up a link to the democracy post since that seems to tick off a few people, despite the fact that putting up links clearly provokes debate in the “general debate” post)
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July 22, 2009 11:55am
Owen McShane

Kiwipolemicist,
Rousseau is hard to put in a box because he became extremely passionate about different ideas at different times in his live and was prone to go over the top with each and any of thse particular enthusiasms.
I challenge the claim that Rousseau had more influence on modern democracy than Locke. Just about everything Locke had to say is reflected in the US Constitution. Rousseau’s democracy (and his state) has nothing to do with representative democracy. He insisted that everyone should vote directly on every issue. So the social entity could be no greater than could meet in a room and attend the meeting place. The opposite of the Leviathan.
His ideal state was a state of nature by which he meant the family living within a small rural village. To my mind the best presentation of Rousseau’s State of Nature was in the TV series The Darling Buds of May – and anyone who watched the blossoming of Catherine Zeta Jones as an example of the state of nature would be hard pressed to deny it.
Rousseau is so exasperating. He charms us on one page and horifies us on the next.
I have read your page (and appreciate it) so you might like to read my third paper on the Age of Environmentalism – which is about “The American Story”. I deal with Rousseau’s contribution to current thought on the environment as best I can. At least he is a long way from the Dark Greens of 19th Century Germany that I write about in “Beware the Dark Greens”, the second in the series. If you want to look at the dark side – that’s the paper.

Go to: http://www.rmastudies.org.nz/index.php/issues
Or go here to get the pdf without seeing the rest of the Web page: http://www.rmastudies.org.nz/documents/BerlinroussF.pdf.
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July 22, 2009 12:15pm
Buggerlugs

Youth Against Child Abuse NZ is trying to canvass ideas by which we can reduce child abuse in NZ

Contraceptives. Simple.
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July 22, 2009 12:29pm
Fletch

Total Eclipse of the sun today!
Well…not really in NZ, but if you want to see what you can see, have a look at about 2.35pm today.
The moon should be just below the Sun (although not really covering it).
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July 22, 2009 12:37pm
kiwipolemicist

Owen:

I challenge the claim that Rousseau had more influence on modern democracy than Locke. Just about everything Locke had to say is reflected in the US Constitution.

IMHO the America of today bears little resemblance to the America envisioned by the writers of the constitution. The Mises article that my post contains a link to shows the influence of Rousseau on today’s version of democracy.

Your second link is dead – there’s an extra dot at the end. This one works well:
http://www.rmastudies.org.nz/index.php/issues/65-the-age-of-environmentalism/307-enviromentalism

Your essay looks intriguing but I’m not to attempt to say any more because it will require application that I don’t have time for right now.

To the misanthropic Dark Greens I say “Lead by example and top yourself. If you do not you are a hypocrite”.

I’m glad that at least one other person on the planet appreciates my post 🙂

I have to go out now but hopefully I’ll be back here later.
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July 22, 2009 12:51pm
grumpyoldhori

Need to earn some money ?
Do this, grab a ladder,bucket and a hose and scraper.
Then go door to door asking ladies of the houses if they want their gutters cleaned.
To be evil just ask if they are waiting for their husbands to do it, then watch the fire in their eyes.
If you cannot make $30 bucks an hour you are either idle, or incredibly bloody ugly.
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July 22, 2009 3:03pm
TMC

Saw an article out yesterday that farmers are hurtin’ in NZ again.

“World commodity prices have plummeted.” By 50% according to the Bloomberg charts.

Wasn’t Fonterra not too long ago blaming incredibly high prices for milk and cheese in this country on world commodity prices?

If that’s the case, prices in the store would be overdue for lowering, yes? Why no noise about this?
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July 22, 2009 4:54pm
backster

TMC………You haven’t done much shopping lately Cheese is about what is was before the boom and so is butter.
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July 22, 2009 4:58pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Interesting news about Obama here.

Polling lower than Bush Junior at the same stage. Remarkable.

Rhetoric over substance.

Go on Bat Ears, show us your Birth Certificate! You are a Fraud, and corrupt. How much did Fanny and Freddie pour into your campaign?

Money from the small man, my arse.
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July 22, 2009 5:39pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Ooops!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5880717/Barack-Obama-ratings-fall-as-polls-show-honeymoon-may-be-over.html
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July 22, 2009 6:01pm
Hurf Durf

“An independent investigator”

Democrat operative, then, Jackoff.

http://news.bnonews.com/j9hp

Here’s the PDF of the report. It’s only nine pages long and worth reading in full because the gist of it is that legal defence funds simply aren’t permissible under the Alaska ethics act. It’s not that she’s doing anything underhanded or differently from the Clintons or John Kerry or any federal official; it’s just that Alaska doesn’t allow the governor to accept money that’s in any way connected with the performance of her duties as governor. In fact, on page 7, the investigator goes out of his way to say that Alaska’s system is FUBAR, especially with respect to not reimbursing the governor for defending herself against frivolous complaints, but since he can only apply the law as written, that’s what he has to do. His recommendation for “corrective action”: Having Palin seek reimbursement from Alaska.

Exit question: Who leaked this, ahem, “confidential” report?
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July 22, 2009 6:02pm
Hurf Durf

In the meantime, Jackoff, Google “Gerald Walpin, Federal IG, fired for investigating an Obama supporter.”
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July 22, 2009 6:07pm
racer1

You lot still don’t like those Negroids do you?
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July 22, 2009 6:27pm
racer1

“# Glutaemus Maximus (1962) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
July 22nd, 2009 at 5:39 pm

Interesting news about Obama here.

Polling lower than Bush Junior at the same stage. Remarkable.

Rhetoric over substance.

Go on Bat Ears, show us your Birth Certificate! You are a Fraud, and corrupt. How much did Fanny and Freddie pour into your campaign?

Money from the small man, my arse.
”

You shoudl probably back up your illegal libelous comment with some evidence, else you deserve jail.
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July 22, 2009 6:41pm
Hurf Durf

Careful, guys, disagreeing with someone on their politics might cause big bad racer to call you a racist and say you should be put in jail.
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July 22, 2009 7:01pm
racer1

Careful every one else, if you question the opinions of the above moron, his 2nd brain cell might kick into action, and we can all laugh at the ensuing tantrum he throws.
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July 22, 2009 7:20pm
Hurf Durf

“You lot still don’t like those Negroids do you?”

You shoudl probably back up your illegal libelous comment with some evidence, else you deserve jail.
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July 22, 2009 7:23pm
racer1

it is not illegal or libelous, there is no law saying you have to like Negroids. Get a fucking clue you moron.
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July 22, 2009 7:33pm
Hurf Durf

Wow, racer’s all over the place. Have a lie down before the last functioning blood vessel in your head bursts.
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July 22, 2009 7:54pm
Steve

Grumpyoldhori said at 3.03pm:
Need to earn some money ?
Do this, grab a ladder,bucket and a hose and scraper.
Then go door to door asking ladies of the houses if they want their gutters cleaned.
To be evil just ask if they are waiting for their husbands to do it, then watch the fire in their eyes.
If you cannot make $30 bucks an hour you are either idle, or incredibly bloody ugly.

You have to be joking!
Climb a ladder? what if someone falls?
A bucket? this means filling the bucket, how heavy will it be? will it cause an injury?
A hose? this means water is involved, is the hose area fenced off?
A scraper? this tool will have a safety lock to keep it in the scabbard?
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July 22, 2009 7:58pm

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