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July 16, 2009 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 16 July 2009

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General Debate

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terry

mr peters back in the headlines….. new zealand first is back for 2011….why?
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July 16, 2009 8:06am
Glutaemus Maximus

Will there be enough accommodation ready for the RWC?

Should it have been shared with OZ?

How many Rugby fans will turn up? 60k for the ’05 Lions Tour.

I reckon it will be over 100k for a World Cup.
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July 16, 2009 8:09am
bearhunter

Will they have the Vic park tunnel finished in time for the RWC or will it be a bloody shambles, with endless delays for people trying to drive through Auckland?
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July 16, 2009 8:15am
Bok

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10584696

Does any-one else just want to go and grab this lot and lock them in a leaky cell somewhere?

After letting the home-owner hang for years while they tried to hide from their culpability, this is beyond bad taste, to use this as a scare tactic. Note to this wanker. People like you and Mallard might think this is legitimate tactic but last year you were told to get in line by your bosses , us! Neither of you have the intelligence to learn, so you are going have to learn to live with the consequences.

You are stupid and nasty.
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July 16, 2009 8:16am
Cerium

In general terms what do you call “the defence that isn’t a defence”?

– for those who remember TV advertising from the seventies (don’t post the answer).
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July 16, 2009 8:19am
Murray

Glutaemus, diligaf?
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July 16, 2009 8:28am
wreck1080

Isn’t it a strange country.

The government gives welfare money to the poor .

The poor lose their money to the pokies and the earnings returns to the government.

The government distributes pokie money to various charities and community groups –

The community groups then go on to support the poor because they spent all their money on the pokies already.

It is like a sick joke put on us by some secret evil being .

Pokies should be banned.
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July 16, 2009 8:30am
starboard

for those who remember TV advertising from the seventies (don’t post the answer

…very, very good sir…
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July 16, 2009 8:33am
jackp

I am all for John Key’s refusing 16 and 17 year olds the dole when they refuse to enrol in some type of trade school.
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July 16, 2009 8:38am
goonix

Where is Redbaiter? Did he accidentally build his bunker too deep, not allowing himself wireless internet access?
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July 16, 2009 8:48am
david

Who else saw the “Politically Incorrect Parenting Show” on TV1 last night.

Freakin’ hilarious and a must watch even tho’ mine have all left the nest. A timely reminder for a would-be grandparent though.

I particularly liked his comments about the fact that now playground horizontal “rope-bridges” have been brought almost to ground level by the “safety nazis” (his term), little pervert boys (i.e. normal kids) have to lie on their backs to look up girls’ skirts.

Wife and I absolutely cracked up at the refreshing honesty.
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July 16, 2009 8:50am
starboard

Peters is just an opportunist…dried up old dog turd…wish he would blow away in the breeze..give it up Winnie
..there must be a place for you somewhere in Rymans…
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July 16, 2009 8:50am
david

starboard, you would have liked Larry Williams on Newstalk ZB this morning who said something like “What’s with this. Winston Peters only has to break wind and it’s all over the news” in a tone that really was a commentary on his own Newsroom rather than anything else.

Which leaves the question – why does the media give him Oxygen?
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July 16, 2009 9:00am
AG

goonix,
“Where is Redbaiter? ”

Don’t you know your Harry Potter? “He who must not be named” and all that?

I suspect he’s off searching for Obama’s birth certificate, hoping that if he bears this North to Wasilla it will free Sarah Palin from the evil commie leftists, so that she can complete her mission of saving the 0.00001% of humanity (loosely termed) that have not already become too tainted by the socialist education system. Or something equally important.
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July 16, 2009 9:01am
Cerium

And if you are too young here is a hint…
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/motoring/road-test/2406473/Ralliart-blends-fun-performance
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July 16, 2009 9:02am
sbk

Amnesty call to clear Jails “to prevent overcrowding causing significant safety and human right issues”.WTF.. what about the public’s safety.Personally i dont give a damn about their human/civil rights.They by their own actions deserve to be punished and therefore(IMHO) have negated any rights ,after all,these pricks didnt give a second thought to our personal safety or rights.If they did ..well..
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July 16, 2009 9:08am
MyNameIsJack

goonix (51) Vote: 1 0 Says:

July 16th, 2009 at 8:48 am
Where is Redbaiter? Did he accidentally build his bunker too deep, not allowing himself wireless internet access?

Nope, I killed him off a week ago. No loss to the community, either.
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July 16, 2009 9:09am
jcuknz

I see a boy put his teachers on facebook in disrespectful terms … they are considering suspending him … from what? 🙂

In my day the headmaster would have given him six of the best, perhaps only three if it was a cane, and continued his schooling.

The educators are nuts IMO.

Then there is the case of the tramper, tragic event, made worse that around twenty people put their lives at risk in dreadful conditions, so bad that the chopper could only land one of the several search groups, becuase he didn’t equip himself with an EPIRB. Today the new portable 406 can and often do pin-point your position to around two metres and easilly fit in a pocket. What gaulled me even more was the ‘Tramping expert’ on TV3 said they usually didn’t carry them. Utterly irresponsible, for thirty years I havn’t gone out of the harbour without at least an EPIRB and on geting a new boat one of the first things I bought was a new 406 EPIRB to replace my old one.
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July 16, 2009 9:14am
Murray

Fuck you’re an idiot jackboot.
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July 16, 2009 9:15am
Glutaemus Maximus

Murray,

Glutaemus, diligaf?

Que?
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July 16, 2009 9:20am
philu

(psst..!..muzza..!..)

now..i know that i don’t use that most effete of punctuation-tools..the comma..

..but you really should..eh..?

..it-will-stop-you-reading-like-an-aut-om-o-ton…

..(and possibly could even make sense..eh..?

i think you need two..on this occaison..

..one after the ‘fuck’..and one before the ‘jackboot’.

got that..?..yr welcome..!)

..and really..?..

..what’s with the insulting a shoe..?

what did that jackboot ever do to you..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 16, 2009 9:21am
expat

oh do fuck off phil. really, you must be mentally retarded.
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July 16, 2009 9:24am
Glutaemus Maximus

Winston Peters is going to find everything has changed. The World kept turning, and his supporters got ever older.

The MSM are really giving him far too much creedence. He is a goneburger.

Disappointing is the lack of appetite to chase him for money he didn’t earn, or deserve. National are being less than honest by

keeping stum. There should also be research into Scampi, and Fish quotas.
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July 16, 2009 9:25am
bearhunter

GM: DILLIGAF – Do I look like I give a fuck.
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July 16, 2009 9:26am
philu

this is a (non-ideological) warning..

..to those trying to reduce the size of their stomachs..

(are we looking at you there..?..expat..?..)

you are being tricked/lied to by food manufacturers..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/the-calorie-delusion-why-food-labels-are-wrong/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 16, 2009 9:33am
philu

any robot fans out there..?

get ready to cream yr jeans..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/up-close-and-personal-with-the-robot-hall-of-fame/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 16, 2009 9:38am
trout

The shrink said he had , ‘personality characteristics of anxiety, obsessionality, and narcism’, prone to narcisstic rage’ and ‘appeared to have an inflated sense of his own achievements’ and I thought he was referring to Winston. (The shrink was giving evidence in the Weathertston trial).
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July 16, 2009 9:57am
WraithX

Or you can bypass PhilU’s crap and go straight to the source he stole his article from:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327171.200-the-calorie-delusion-why-food-labels-are-wrong.html?full=true
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July 16, 2009 10:03am
Put it away

Has any more been heard about Kim Jong Il’s alleged cancer ? The story seems to have disappeared, mores the pity. It’s hard to decide whether to hope for him to do the world a favour and die quickly, or for him to linger on and suffer as he deserves.
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July 16, 2009 10:12am
Put it away

Phool don’t bother about counting calories, you don’t burn any sitting around unemployed and smoking dope. Weight loss requires exercise, i.e. actually doing something.
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July 16, 2009 10:14am
muppet

Tupperware party. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2599100/Prison-officer-foils-Tupperware-party

This is news? I dunno I thought it was, you know, their regular job.
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July 16, 2009 10:26am
Loco Burro

Chief Justice Sian Elias thinking outside of the box Some interesting ideas on dealing with overcrowded prisons in a speeh made public last night.
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July 16, 2009 10:27am
Bok

I am a big fan of Price and the Warriors but I nearly wet myself laughing at this:
“Steve Price, who was pole-axed by a blindside punch in last night’s State of Origin III fistfight.”

Where in god’s name do they find these idiots who pose as reporters.

Any-one who saw the incident would have a giggle. I really want to know how you blindside some-one after standing toe to toe trading 6 or seven punches each.

Blindsiding is what Mallard does to people from behind, it is not something that happens in a face to face confrontation.

So he got decked…so what big deal, dont try and put spin on it.
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July 16, 2009 10:39am
MyNameIsJack

NAB to sell BNZ?
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July 16, 2009 10:56am
starboard

Chief Justice Sian Elias thinking outside of the box Some interesting ideas on dealing with overcrowded prisons in a speeh made public last night.

..is she for real !! ??
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July 16, 2009 11:06am
Ryan Sproull

Simple. Legalise and tax cannabis, and release everyone who is in prison for only cannabis-related charges.
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July 16, 2009 11:09am
Swiftman the infidel

Sian Elias is a privelages pratt that makes Marie Antoinette look like Mother theresa of Calcutta.

We need to chop off their heads from time-to-time, not (unfortunately) using Madame Guillotine, but by regular elections.

That would teach that legal toff some respect for the public!

[DPF: I’d prefer you do not advocate executing the Chief Justice, on my blog]
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July 16, 2009 11:14am
MyNameIsJack

Why stop at cannabis? Why not heroin, acid, and ecstacy? Harm minimisation should be the policy.
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July 16, 2009 11:16am
Ryan Sproull

Why stop at cannabis? Why not heroin, acid, and ecstacy? Harm minimisation should be the policy.

True, though legalising heroin would likely to be the most unpopular of the selection. Legalising acid, ecstasy and cannabis and releasing anyone imprisoned purely on those drug-related charges. Use the increased tax revenue and decreased pressure on police for drug-use education initiatives.
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July 16, 2009 11:18am
cha

Tony Blair wants to be president …of Europe.
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July 16, 2009 11:19am
philu

“..Put it away (258) Vote: Add rating 5 Subtract rating 0 Says:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:14 am

Phool don’t bother about counting calories, you don’t burn any sitting around unemployed and smoking dope. Weight loss requires exercise, i.e. actually doing something..”

just got back from yogalates…feel the burn..!..(how has your exercise been today..?..

..and..um..!..it’s after noon..

i’ve got about twenty whoar-stories down..and ..

..can i skin-up now..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 16, 2009 12:04pm
backster

I can’t make up my mind whether the under-employed head of the under employed Supreme Court is loony, thinks everyone can afford the personal security that she has, or is genuine in offering a suggestion to make the Parole Board redundant. Clearly if we are going to release criminals everytime they find the density uncomfortable then there will be no need for a parole board to let them out after a third of their sentence has been served. Perhaps she made this comment to justify the recent activity of the Appeal Court (Stuff yesterday) in reducing a whole string of sentences for very serious crimes. Clearly these people have lost contact with reality. It makes one appreciate the U.S. system that Judge Sotomayer is undergoing at the moment , where she has to withstand a grilling from both sides of the senate before she can demonstrate she is worthy of promotion to the Supreme Court.

CHA:…..But Al Gore wants to president of the One World Government.!!
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July 16, 2009 12:15pm
Put it away

Phool my exercise is going fine, but since I work for a living ( you know, doing work that people actually value and are glad to pay me for, not sitting all day linking to other peoples’ stories and adding worthless uninformed, unreadably punctuated comments that no one cares about, when I should be out looking for a job ) I do it after work. An hour in the gym today mostly freeweights ( you know, real exercise, not some bullshit fad of the week like whatever the hell “Yogalates” is ) , plus a brisk 35 min walk home uphill all the way up Wellington’s hills. Hoping to get some running on the weekend.
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July 16, 2009 12:26pm
starboard

Chief Justice Sian Elias thinking outside of the box Some interesting ideas on dealing with overcrowded prisons in a speeh made public last night.

…whats interesting about a mass release of scum back into general population..what a fucked up idea…what planet is she on?..who does she think she is?….HC..any jobs going for SE in NY..??
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July 16, 2009 12:35pm
NOt1tocommentoften

Starboard – as much as I question the CJ’s position in relation to making speeches on criminal justice policy I do suggest you read her speech before making such flippant and unconsidered comments. Be warned though, it may be a stretch in light of most of your off the cuff responses. It’s 16 pages mate, don’t over-do yourself.
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July 16, 2009 12:40pm
philu

did anyone hear/see john key and his ‘the recession is over’ comedy routine..?..this morning..?

(no reporting of that..dpf..?..

..when you do..tag it under ‘political-humour’..eh..?)

..why..i hadn’t heard the likes..

..since those knee-slappingly funny ($11 billion ‘out’) pre-election ‘economic predictions’ from treasury/the reserve bank..

..eh..?

someone should really email key this piece/one..eh..?

i think he really really needs to read it..

..eh..?..

‘cos..really..we are already down the toilet..

..and the sooner he realises that..

..the sooner ‘real’ rebuilding/re-jigging can start..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/can-the-economy-recover/

..maybe key is hoping to run that little ‘happy days are here again!’ fantasy/chimera thru to the next election..?

(..we must wish him ‘good luck’ with that..!..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 16, 2009 12:47pm
philu

put it away..

(whoar..!..’real-man’ exercise..eh..?

walk like a brick..? doya..?)

you’d be up for a bracing cold shower too..eh..?

oh..hang on..you don’t need that..

you just need to step outside..and wait ten minutes..eh..?

‘cos you live in wellington..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 16, 2009 12:54pm
Put it away

Hey it’s a historic day, one person actually gave Phool’s comments a positive rating. I thought the system was rigged so you couldn’t vote on your own comments ? LOL
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July 16, 2009 1:01pm
Cronje

Off the cuff does not mean wrong.

“They included reducing the prison population as well as intervention, community education, probation and improvements in mental health care.” ———- That seems to be the solution to EVERY problem that’s NOT being solved in this day and age.

She said optimism had given way to pessimism and there had been a “rise of popular anxiety about crime”. ———- So we need to feel optimistic that these people will not reoffend? That will not happen overnight, over weeks, over years…

Prison population figures have risen to 8400 and are expected to rise further. ———- We can’t afford to accommodate the prisoners, but we can afford to put the public at risk?

And the probation service was “overwhelmed by its case load, under-resourced to do the job and insufficiently supported … by the public.” ———- Offenders on probation have killed innocent people, violently. An understaffed probation service should mean a fast-track to getting out!

If you consider the financial (taxpayer) burden that these parolees will inflict on us once they get out, it may be worth building more prisons now and focussing efforts preventing the root causes of crime.

PS – poverty to the extent that it drives you to crime does not exist in NZ.
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July 16, 2009 1:11pm
starboard

NOt1tocommentoften…

..while maybe you shouldnt then BRO….
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July 16, 2009 1:19pm
Cerium

As narcissism is in the news (and I have been accused of it here) I thought it worth checking out – I didn’t have any idea what it was supposed to be.

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty or ideal love (megalomania)
3. Believes they are “special” and can only be understood by, or should associate with, people (or institutions) who are also “special” or of high status
4. Requires excessive admiration
5. Has a sense of entitlement
6. Is interpersonally exploitative
7. Lacks empathy
8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Hypothetical causes
* An oversensitive temperament at birth
* Overindulgence and overvaluation by parents
* Valued by parents as a means to regulate their own self-esteem
* Excessive admiration that is never balanced with realistic feedback
* Unpredictable or unreliable caregiving from parents
* Severe emotional abuse in childhood
* Being praised for perceived exceptional looks or talents by adults
* Excessive praise for good behaviors or excessive criticism for poor behaviors in childhood

Self diagnosis is a clear fail, but is seems very much like what is being played out daily in court.
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July 16, 2009 1:42pm
Kris K

“Chief Justice Sian Elias thinking outside of the box. Some interesting ideas on dealing with overcrowded prisons in a speeh made public last night.”

Isn’t much of what she is proposing ‘ambulance at the bottom of the cliff’ stuff? Until we address the issue that there is no ‘fence at the top of the cliff’then we are not really addressing the real issue at all. That being, if we don’t train up our children to know the difference between right and wrong; teach them to respect authority figures; discipline them when they misbehave [ie a good smack if required], then our prison population will continue to grow. Reducing the punishment for law breakers is not the answer. It’s better to ‘smack’ a child when they are still ‘teachable’, than to have to have society ‘smack’ them by putting them in jail when they are no longer able to be taught anything much at all.

Surely this is just common sense!
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July 16, 2009 1:48pm
Cerium

[ie a good smack if required]

Isn’t doing this to others the reason why many of them end up in prison?
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July 16, 2009 1:51pm
Loco Burro

The point is she (Elias) is thinking and pushing for new ideas….. not dashing round with the mancles trying to lock as many people up as possible. What I am congratulating is someone willing to publicly offer some ideas. The current trend in Justice is failing victims, failing taxpayers, failing everyone ……. that should be the most important stimulus for ideas. Any new ideas should be welcomed and then debated. simply closing your eyes and wishing everything better ain’t gonna do the trick. Also, do not threaten people’s lives because you don’t agree with their point of view, that sort of attitude is disgusting.
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July 16, 2009 1:53pm
NOt1tocommentoften

Kirs K – common sense would suggest that smacking a child signals to them that it is ok to use force to get your way. It suggests that smacking others to get your view accross is ok – i.e. letting another know your own views of what’s right and wrong through violence.

To use Elias’ comments to support the smacking debate is a fairly shallow look at the problem. Good on you for pointing out that violence in the home and outside it during childhood as being a key factor in offending in later life. Why reinforce violence through a ‘smack’ – admit what it really is? You’re right we need to look further at the causes of crime, one of them is violence. Stop it in all cases, especially against children.
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July 16, 2009 1:56pm
Loco Burro

Kris K – She also discussed early intervention and community education. As well as attacking the attitude of pessimism that surrounds justice policy in this country.
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July 16, 2009 2:03pm
Manolo

“Pokies should be banned.”

If we follow your logic, then we should also ban cigarettes, alcohol, Lotto, horseracing, food, cars and every activity that people enjoy participating in. Wowserism will take us nowhere.

The solution is not banning things, but assuming personal responsibility for your own actions and benefitting from (or paying for) the consequences.
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July 16, 2009 2:06pm
Kris K

Cerium 1:51 pm,
[ie a good smack if required]
“Isn’t doing this to others the reason why many of them end up in prison?”

Not if you believe that: A smack [when necessary] is part of good parental correction.
And that,
Pro 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
I believe crime has gone up for the very reason that we don’t smack our children when they are disobedient and require one.
Smacking a child is, of course, not the same as an adult assaulting another adult. Even though you, Cerium, do not distinguish between the two, it is clear to some of us why the prison population continues to grow – and it ain’t because little Johnny got a smack for throwing a pen at his brother.
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July 16, 2009 2:15pm
NOt1tocommentoften

Smacking a child is, of course, not the same as an adult assaulting another adult. Why Kris? I can discern no difference between the two to be honest, except on the grounds on some false belief that we have a right to assault our children.
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July 16, 2009 2:19pm
NOt1tocommentoften

Kris K are you using the bible to defend smacking children? Come on buddy – we stopped using theology and religion as a basis for justifying laws many moons back. Harm, autonomy, and dignity are hallmarks now. Hell, how would all your gay freinds feel if you considered homosexuality illegal? Justify things properly man.
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July 16, 2009 2:24pm
Kris K

NOt1tocommentoften 1:56 pm,
“Kirs K – common sense would suggest that smacking a child signals to them that it is ok to use force to get your way. It suggests that smacking others to get your view accross is ok – i.e. letting another know your own views of what’s right and wrong through violence.”

No it doesn’t, even though you think it does. We only need to look at the statistics when it was lawful to physically discipline children in the home, and we still had corporal punishment in schools, compared to what we observe now in society, to see the fallacy of your argument.
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July 16, 2009 2:27pm
Cerium

Kris K – try asking the prison population what the definition of a good smack is.
Ask them to differentiate between a good smack and a bad smack.
Ask them how they learnt about smacking.
Ask their parents if they thought that society approved of them smacking however they liked, with their own differentiation.

Can you point to any proof of a correlation between corporal punishment and crime rate?
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July 16, 2009 2:30pm
llew

We only need to look at the statistics when it was lawful to physically discipline children in the home, and we still had corporal punishment in schools, compared to what we observe now in society, to see the fallacy of your argument.

Um… can you show us some stats then? I can only glean from that comment that more kids were physically disciplined when it was lawful to do so.
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July 16, 2009 2:30pm
llew

Smacking a child is, of course, not the same as an adult assaulting another adult.

Dead right, another adult might smack you back.
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July 16, 2009 2:33pm
Kris K

NOt1tocommentoften 2:19pm & 2:24pm,
What you consider “some false belief” is of course what others consider common sense. You, and society, may throw out sound biblical teaching, but you/society reap what has been sown – disobedient children [many now in adulthood] with no sense of right and wrong, no respect for authority, etc. I think you’ll find that traditional western nations’ laws were essentially a re-write of the ten commandments.

And even though our society has changed the law regarding homosexuality, I still believe it to be ‘an abomination before the Lord’, and am quite prepared to illuminate the minds of any ‘gay friends’ I may have to this fact.
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July 16, 2009 2:44pm
Cerium

Some might see intolerance of someone different as “an abomination after the Christ’.
Some might see a religious belief as “an abomination before the Logic’.

Do children bought up in religious homes not commit crimes?
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July 16, 2009 2:57pm
CraigM

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10584710

Without wanting to get into any discussion about child porn, I find this new software purchase by the government to be of concern.

It seems that there is no publicly available list of censored sites, so what is to stop the beauracrats responsible for “the list” from becoming our chief internet censor?

Shouldn’t there be some level of public scrutiny. The first thing that popped into my mind when I saw this was: same week as the SG had a crack at blogs for posting about ongoing trials and the increasing influence of “some” blogs… and this story hasn’t come from a government announcement. It leaked.

I’m all for protecting society from stuff we just don’t need to see, but who decides what that is and by what criteria, when it starts to get marginal. Isn’t the closed nature of this programme just a little …China? North Korea?

It looks like the thin edge of a wedge.
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July 16, 2009 3:09pm
MyNameIsJack

Hi Kris,

Maybe you need to read a bit more widely than your bible, and, when you read your bible, read it closely. The bible is full of tales of blood, gore and disobedience, even though there was no prohibition on “smacking’ children.

Here is an articel you may find informative, its about the lessening of violence as Man matures.

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/greatergood/2009april/Pinker054.php

Ancient texts reveal a stunning lack of regard for human life. In the Bible, the supposed source of all our moral values, the Hebrews are urged by God to slaughter every last resident of an invaded city. “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites,” reads a typical passage in the book of Samuel. “Make war on them until you have wiped them out.” The Bible also prescribes death by stoning as the penalty for a long list of nonviolent infractions, including idolatry, blasphemy, homosexuality, adultery, disrespecting one’s parents, and picking up sticks on the Sabbath. The Hebrews, of course, were no more murderous than other tribes; one also finds frequent boasts of torture and genocide in the early histories of the Hindus, Christians, Muslims, and Chinese.

You go on to say “I think you’ll find that traditional western nations’ laws were essentially a re-write of the ten commandments.”

*I* think you’ll find they’re not.

What are the “traditional western nations’ laws” that cover the first 5? Or the 7th?
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July 16, 2009 3:09pm
MyNameIsJack

Craig, I posted this link here a day or two back, but seems it needs to be seen again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THe3FDe-aD4

QANTAS won’t run it on flights.

GSK (humourless bastards in suits) have hauled out their lawyers.

GetUp seem to have done a good job.
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July 16, 2009 3:15pm
llew

disobedient children [many now in adulthood] with no sense of right and wrong, no respect for authority, etc.

Speak for yourself, mine’s doing really, really well.
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July 16, 2009 3:29pm
Kris K

llew 2:30 pm,
“Um… can you show us some stats then? I can only glean from that comment that more kids were physically disciplined when it was lawful to do so.”

Yup, just one of many.
Sweden’s Smacking Ban: More Harm than Good Robert E Larzelere – Associate Professor of Psychology University of Nebraska Medical Center.
http://www.familyfirst.org.nz/index.cfm/Media_Centre/Published_Articles/Articles/Sweden_s_smacking_ban.html/Sweden_s_smacking_ban.pdf

There are plenty of other stats out there. Of course you will no doubt quote back at me ‘stats’ [and I use the term loosely here] from some such godless oraganisation as UNICEF.
Further evidence of socialist/liberal agenda despite the ‘evidence’ that confronts us all on a daily basis.
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July 16, 2009 3:44pm
Kris K

Cerium 2:57 pm,
“Do children bought up in religious homes not commit crimes?”

One might equally ask: Do adults in prison come from bible believing, bible applying, Christian homes?

As someone who visits, and is involved in taking the gospel into prisons I would have to say that very few, if any, inmates come from Christian homes.
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July 16, 2009 3:52pm
MyNameIsJack

As someone who visits, and is involved in taking the gospel into prisons I would have to say that very few, if any, inmates come from Christian homes.

I fully agree with you.

Of course, that’s only because whenever we point out the hypocrisy of believers, we’re told that they’re not true believers.
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July 16, 2009 3:57pm
Kris K

MyNameIsJack,
Here’s a comment I made on another topic where I both quoted, and agreed with, a statement you made [of course I didn’t agree with the whole of your comment, that would be asking too much]:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/25_years_ago.html#comment-584037
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July 16, 2009 4:15pm
MyNameIsJack

So, you gunna answer about the Big10?
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July 16, 2009 4:19pm
peterwn

Wild J has scored a victory for the long suffering small time taxpayer by ruling against BNZ’s tax rorts.

See:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10584855

and the judgment itself:
http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/BNZcourtdecision.pdf

(I wonder how the Herald got this – the Courts web site have not (yet anyway) put it up as a public interest jdgment and they delay for three days High Court and up judgments).

Following the Nevis (Trinity) case this was quite predictable.

It will IMO go all the way to the Supreme Court but will survive IMO.

Perhaps the other Aussie owned banks will then settle up their rorts to limit the amount of Shylock type interest they would have to pay IRD.

John and Bill will surely be delighted at this handy extra revenue in tough times.

By the way, I wonder if the South Island power grid is still ‘owned’ by some overseas outfit, this apparently being part of a similar tax rort against Uncle Sam. I suppose Mike Cullen could not resist the extra dividend for this, it is not a good look when one government is effectively a party to a tax rort against a fellow government.
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July 16, 2009 4:24pm
Cerium

“I would have to say that very few, if any, inmates come from Christian homes.”

Very unlikely it’s none, but likely it is a low proportion.

Do you have any indication how many experienced corporal punishment when they were children (at home or at school)?
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July 16, 2009 4:30pm
Rex Widerstrom

starboard opines:

…whats interesting about a mass release of scum back into general population..what a fucked up idea…what planet is she on?..who does she think she is?

To deal with your last question first, she’s the woman who presides over a judiciary which is being forced (by politicians keen to win votes by appearing to be “tough on crime”) to stuff our jails over-full with people, many of whose offences don’t warrant jail time at all.

As such, they’ll be the ones held responsible (along with the poor over-worked, underpaid prison officers) when NZ gets its first really serious riot due to overcrowding.

As for the first part of your assertion – that all prisoners are “scum”, have you ever conducted any sort of analysis of a prison population?

Amongst other categories, they can be divided into violent and non-violent offenders – though this can sometimes be misleading as a person imprisoned for what sounds like a violent crime can have committed no violence. For instance it’s possible for a drug addict to walk into a pharmacy with their finger poking through their hoodie, claim to have a knife, and be given drugs. They’re charged with armed robbery – but in fact no one was bashed or stabbed or harmed physically.

Anyway, leaving aside those fine definitions, I’d be interested in knowing why you’re so vehemently in favour of keeping nonviolent offenders locked away when they could be made to undertake the vast amount of community work that needs to be done – from helping prepare Meals on Wheels to hosing out the SPCA’s cages to carrying out maintenance on the homes of elderly folk and goodness knows how much else (all under supervision of course).

And there’s no reason they couldn’t serve the bulk of their sentence in such a fashion after having briefly seen the inside of a prison so they’d have a clear picture of what they’d face if they reoffend.

I’d much rather the guy found with a few marijuana plants or the woman who defrauded her employer were released early and forced to repay society for their crimes (and in the latter case, her employer as well) than double bunked with rapists and murderers. Wouldn’t you?
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July 16, 2009 4:37pm
alex Masterley

Peterwn,
I agree with your suggestion that this one will go to the SC.
A final decision will appear in about 2 years time.
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July 16, 2009 4:48pm
adc

Not1tocommentoften.

1 word. Responsibility.

Adults (those who reached the age of majority) are legally and morally responsible for their actions.

Children are not. Parents are responsible for the actions of their children up to a large extent. Therefore parents have a requirement to train / discipline children. they don’t have such a requirement with other adults because those other adults will bear the consequences of their actions.

I guess you don’t have any kids.
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July 16, 2009 4:58pm
Kris K

Cerium 4:30 pm,
“Do you have any indication how many [inmates] experienced corporal punishment when they were children (at home or at school)?”

No I don’t. But this would certainly be an interesting statistic to have, provided that it distinguished between ‘loving discipline’ and ‘genuine’ child abuse. Given the socialist/liberal agenda, though, I won’t be holding my breath waiting for an accurate and objective study being carried out.
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July 16, 2009 5:05pm
Ryan Sproull

An accurate and objective distinction between loving discipline and genuine child abuse?
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July 16, 2009 5:12pm
Kris K

Yes Ryan, sadly, it is becoming increasingly important the define ones terms thesedays.
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July 16, 2009 5:26pm
philu

kris k..

who is actually running this ‘socialist agenda’..?

do they have code names..?

..do you have swirling/unknown fears about any other aspects of your life..?

..or just this one..?

(b.t.w..have you met redbaiter yet..?..i’m sure you’ll both get along famously..)

b.t.w.2..i know where redbaiter is..

..i set him the task of searching thru his 6 thousand plus comments..

..to see if he could find one that was not just a hateful diatribe..

..but one that actually contained an idea/argument..

..it’s a big task/ask..

..so he’ll be plowing thru that..

..as we speak..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 16, 2009 5:51pm
WebWrat

wreck1080 (537) Vote: Add rating 10 Subtract rating 6 Says:
July 16th, 2009 at 8:30 am

wreck I was with you until you said:

“Pokies should be banned.”

Then I thought, “Fucking Nanny State!”
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July 16, 2009 6:03pm
Kris K

philu 5:51 pm,
“kris k..who is actually running this ’socialist agenda’..?”

Voice over by Billy T James: ‘They’re … everywhere!’
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July 16, 2009 6:13pm
WebWrat

# AG (797) Vote: Add rating 11 Subtract rating 10 Says:
July 16th, 2009 at 9:01 am

goonix,
“Where is Redbaiter? ”

Don’t you know your Harry Potter? “He who must not be named” and all that?

I suspect he’s off searching for Obama’s birth certificate, hoping that if he bears this North to Wasilla it will free Sarah Palin from the evil commie leftists, so that she can complete her mission of saving the 0.00001% of humanity (loosely termed) that have not already become too tainted by the socialist education system. Or something equally important.

……………………………

Redbaiter makes the leftards shit their pants.
He calls a spade a spade.
He speaks his mind.
He speaks my mind.
I enjoy his comentry.

And I am pretty sure he would never lower himself to blantantly destroy a person as the leftards do Sarah Palin, purely to show subserviance to dogma.

Go for it Red, we need your voice.
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July 16, 2009 6:19pm
philu

no webrat..palin gets grief ‘cos she is an absolute brainless horror-show..

..webrat..you with your ‘dogma’..and kris k with ‘socialist aganda’..

..you two could form a coffee-club..

..eh..?

..and invite reddy to ‘visit’..?

.(aww..!!..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

..”..Redbaiter makes the leftards shit their pants..”

um..!…no..!..think ‘loud clown’..
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July 16, 2009 6:26pm
NOt1tocommentoften

Kris K said ‘No I don’t. But this would certainly be an interesting statistic to have, provided that it distinguished between ‘loving discipline’ and ‘genuine’ child abuse. Given the socialist/liberal agenda, though, I won’t be holding my breath waiting for an accurate and objective study being carried out.’

No Kris, I wouldn’t think you would. Instead you look to the FamilyFirst website to support your argument – which is everything but ‘accurate and objective’!
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July 16, 2009 7:14pm
Cerium

“And I am pretty sure he would never lower himself to blantantly destroy a person as the leftards do Sarah Palin, purely to show subserviance to dogma.”

Um, you are talking about the blog mugger. Dogmatic? Nah, more like wolfmatic.
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July 16, 2009 7:22pm
Steve

The phool is fucked up again at 6.26pm. All sorts of punctuation.
No commas, must be a phobia. The next container load of full stops may be cheap and be commas.
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July 16, 2009 7:45pm
Buggerlugs

One of World War 2’s lesser-known massacres – the killing of about 750,000 cats and dogs before bombs fell on London – will be discussed at a public lecture in Wellington next Tuesday.
The lecture, The Great British Cat and Dog Massacre of WWII, outlines how some 750,000 cats and dogs were killed at their owners’ behest.
UK historian Hilda Kean, of Ruskin College at Oxford, will also seek to answer key questions about the little known animal annihilation.
“The massacre is not known anywhere – certainly not in Britain, so the lecture is exploration of this as a new phenomenon/new research,” she said.
Hosted by Massey University’s School of Visual and Material Culture, the lecture will be held at 6pm on Tuesday July 21 in the Museum Building theatrette on Buckle St.

FFS, I hope she paid her own way out here. Who the fuck cares other than those vegan PETA losers?
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July 16, 2009 8:28pm
Hurf Durf

Hey phool, how is it you spam this place with your shitty “news aggregator” but your traffic rank has decreased?

http://alexa.com/siteinfo/whoar.co.nz

Stop trying.
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July 16, 2009 9:50pm
BR

“Wild J has scored a victory for the long suffering small time taxpayer by ruling against BNZ’s tax rorts.”

I do not share your enthusiasm for the IRD collecting more money from the banks. It will not mean that anyone else pays less tax. Instead it will give the government more money to waste, and may cause interest rates to rise as the banks pass on the extra costs to the consumer.

Bill
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July 16, 2009 10:47pm
kaya

BR – Fuck the banks. Thieving scum.
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July 16, 2009 11:04pm
philu

hurf..yeah..alexa is one of those ones where you have to sign up..

..and are ranked by the others who have also signed-up..eh..?

(need i say more..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 17, 2009 10:37am

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