General Debate 12 July 2009

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OECD rank 22 kiwi

Is National the “Do nothing” Government?

Destined to sit on hands and carry out Labour’s policy programme.
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July 12, 2009 9:44am
Jack5

John Key is going to have to step into the move to force mass medication of the nation’s bread with folic acid in seven weeks or so.

Minister of Food Safety Kate Wilkinson showed on Holmes’ QandQ TV show on TV1 this morning that she is out of her depth on this and completely in the hands of her officials. She came across as a country lawyer rather than a politicians when she talked about what she thought she couldn’t do “under the law”, though she agreed she had misgivings about possible health threats from adding folic acid. She has no political savoir-faire.

Holmes says this will increase the price of bread.

Is National mad? It is implementing a Labour decision and will take a hiding for it if this implementation goes ahead.

The bakers have offered to provide lines of bread with folic acid added. Surely that should be enough. And it is conceded the folic acid in the bread won’t be sufficient for pregnant women to safeguard against certain birth defects. Ireland and Britain have delayed implementation until the position is clear.

I take my hat off to Sue Kedgeley, Green though she may be, for an excellent appearance on this show. In the meantime, Key should take Wilkinson out of the Cabinet oven. She’s not baked yet, and may need another ten terms in the House before she is ready for an executive post in Government.
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July 12, 2009 9:44am
dutchie down south

oops…Kate Wilkinson’s Q+A debate about the folic acid didn’t go that well.
My goss did she got her backside kicked by Kidgeley and right so……
I thought that with joining the Nats I jointed a party which stood for freedom of choice, not one which promotes mass medication with a drug what might increase the risk of prostate cancer..
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July 12, 2009 9:45am
grumpyoldhori

OECD rank 22 kiwi yep the Nats are turning out to be a damn good Labour government but a bit too left wing for my taste 🙂
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July 12, 2009 9:50am
Redbaiter

Interesting read for any Progressives out there. Or anyone else interested in the cultural war.

http://tammybruce.com/2009/07/palin-hints-at-independent-conservative-movement.html

Follow up comments worth a read too.
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July 12, 2009 9:52am
Ferdinand

David has the solicitor general investigating his blog: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10583896

Cameron has the media chasing up his creepy cyber stalking: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10583918

And it turns out that David works for the National Party: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/2583835/Internet-warrior

They say any publicity is good publicity. I’m not so sure.
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July 12, 2009 9:56am
Patrick Starr

I’m beginning to warm to Michael Laws ………

“My job’s not to offer balance, it’s to offer strong opinion. I never, ever go too far. I’m not a namby-pamby left-wing liberal commie journalist.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10583939
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July 12, 2009 9:56am
Redbaiter

” thought that with joining the Nats I jointed a party which stood for freedom of choice”

Kate Wllkinson does not even know such a concept exists.

National needs to harden up and defend middle New Zealand from the predations of self serving bureaucrats.

Their problem is they’re all (National) as thick as two short planks, starting with John Key who like Helen Klark is more interested in popularity polls than releasing NZ from the socialist death grip.

Time for a clean out.

Stop supporting liberals in National.
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July 12, 2009 9:59am
Redbaiter

Michael Laws- “I’m not a namby-pamby left-wing liberal commie journalist.”

“But do you like my shade of eye liner??”
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July 12, 2009 10:01am
philu

whoar:..!

must-watch telly for political junkies..!

..see kate wilkinson self-immolate..!

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/commentwhoarmust-watch-televisionsee-one-political-career-crash-and-burnand-another-make-a-giant-leap-forwardand-its-all-in-the-bread/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 12, 2009 10:12am
Simon

When is National going to move all the SOEs into a single fund and then gift the shares to the general public?
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July 12, 2009 10:18am
Cerium

“Palin to stump for conservative Democrats” – WT
Red, you are dreaming (probably the wrong things) if you think Palin will ever get much support beyond the fringes. Her dead fish quote may be a self fulfilling prophesy.

“I will go around the country on behalf of candidates who believe in the right things, regardless of their party label or affiliation,” she said over lunch in her downtown office…
– maybe you can invite her here to stump for Baldock and co..

Who is Tammy Bruce for gawds sake.
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July 12, 2009 10:19am
RKBee

Oh Dear… what was that I said about the Honeymoon… I said it was strong..
Watch John Key step in and leave us our Daily bread… Untouched..
While another one bights the dust… Kate Wilkinson..
Nationals starting to look more and more like a one man party.. Without him they are doomed.
Their next strongest being Peter Sharples.
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July 12, 2009 10:26am
reid

Have a look at this July 4 protest in downtown Chicago.

e.g.

“Obama-Pelosi-Reid – The axis of taxes”

and

“I’m not even two years old and I’m already in debt”
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July 12, 2009 10:27am
Redbaiter

“Who is Tammy Bruce for gawds sake.”

No need to confirm your ignorance, its on display often and well enough for readers to already know what a lamer you are..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10334061

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12PAIqH6i1E&videos=KpAAEwAOew4
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July 12, 2009 10:28am
Viking2

Well about time these useless Nat. ministers got a drubbing. These are people who are picked because they are nice, not because they are principled and not because of their ability but because they are part of the right gang. As I posted brfore their are only two ministers that are looking like well performing, Tony Ryall and Simon Power. the rest well, Heatley is captured by his housing ministry, English was always useless, Williamson didn’t know leaky buildings existed, Crusher failed at the first hurdle and so it goes on. 23 legislative changes in one bill almost all of which were ACT inspired and for which the Nats. claimed credit.
Just remember all this when you next go to vote.
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July 12, 2009 10:29am
Cerium

Leading question Red…..

Your Herald link explains “Tammy Bruce, a lesbian talkshow host who supports abortion but voted for George W. Bush”.
I’m sure Palin and her devotees love her.
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July 12, 2009 10:33am
Viking2

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10583897

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10583900

Leaky house costs owner’s life

Thanks MR Williamson and the Lairbor Party.
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July 12, 2009 10:34am
reid

“Thanks MR Williamson and the Lairbor Party.” (re: leaky homes)

In 1998, a change in the New Zealand standard for Timber Treatment (as referenced in Acceptable Solution B2/AS1) allowed the use of untreated kiln-dried timber in wall framing.

Main factors in leaky buildings

No one factor was identified as the single cause of leaky buildings, but a number of causes were identified:

1. Modern cladding systems. ‘Mediterranean’ style buildings using monolithic cladding systems, such as textured wall surfaces made out of plaster on polystyrene or fibre cement sheet, are promoted as providing a sealed and waterproof outer skin and being low maintenance. But often, they have been used outside their specifications or have been installed incorrectly.

2. Inadequate construction that did not allow for deflection, drying and drainage or had insufficient durability and included features such as:
– recessed windows.
– flat roofs with narrow or no eaves.
– two or more stories.
– design features such as solid balustrades, complex roof design and envelope shapes where roofs frequently intersect with walls on upper floors.
– balconies that jut out from the walls.
– penetrations through the claddings.

3. Insufficient details in the Approved Documents (these contain Acceptable Solutions), which are produced to help people meet the requirements of the New Zealand Building Code. A number of inadequacies were identified, particularly in Acceptable Solution B2/AS1 (about timber durability) and E2/AS1 External Moisture (keeping the weather out). These have since been amended. Problems with the administration of the Building Code by councils and building certifiers have also been identified.

4. Lack of technical knowledge and skills when houses are designed, detailed and built – modern systems require a greater level of care and skill which has not always been applied.

5. Untreated kiln-dried framing timber is susceptible to rot when moisture penetrates the building envelope.

http://www.consumerbuild.org.nz/publish/leaky/leaky-background.php

You can blame politicians but only partially because the building professionals – architects, builders and inspectors, should have bloody known. And many did, but no-one blew the whistle. Ya woulda thought the media would have got hold of it as well, esp the untreated timber bit. After all, it’s only common sense. But no-one did.

I’ve thought for a long time that in cases of extreme easily forseeable stupidity like this, the politicians responsible should be required to forfeit their parliamentary pensions. I would apply this rule to the idiot who allowed aggressive dog breeds into the country in the 80’s or 90’s and to the politicians who put through these changes as well. I mean FFS. Duh.
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July 12, 2009 10:47am
3-coil

reid (10:27am) – excellent link, great photos. Thanks
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July 12, 2009 11:12am
Viking2

We can blame all sorts of organizations and people but the fact remains there will be over 100,00 leaking homes to be fixed and we need some leadership from Govt, that’s more than lip service.
People with no building skills relied on the “Building Profession” and that includes the rule makers to make buildings “fit for purpose” .
It screwball that if it was a consumer product sold at a store then the fit for purpose test would require remedy but not in the case of leaky homes.
Clarkson had an answer to help but the useless Nats. booted him out for a pretty boy.
That’s the answer and we all need to remember that when it next comes to vote because there is no one barracking for all those that are in this situation.
Another good reason not to vote National nor Liarbor.
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July 12, 2009 11:16am
Viking2

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=514&sid=c0db2ea8b27dc6313760754acba3d9da&p=22842#p22842

A parable? or, the beginning of the end?

As a cycles guy, I knew what was coming economically. At this stage of the cycle, we get the “worst” … in droves. I was told a long time ago that the President of a county represents the collective consciousness of that country at that point in time. This was clear with Eisenhower, clear with JFK and clear with Ronald Reagan. With Eisenhower life was simple and uncomplicated and we had respect. JFK brought youth and energy and the USA was a beacon for the world … and we had respect. Reagan brought maturity and leadership … and the USA was respected. Bush, Sr. and Clinton saw a visible change in the respect – “Read my lips” was a lie … and Clinton took lies to a new level. Bush, Jr. eliminated any respect we may have had left; lied; started a war that killed a vast number of Americans and many others, as well. It served no purpose; we got nothing in return and spent many hundreds of billions of dollars we didn’t have. Bush’s mindless war succeeded in having the vast majority of the rest of the world hate us. Remember, each of these Presidents represented the collective consciousness of our country at the respective time. Bush, Sr. , Clinton and Bush, Jr. brought a successive level of lesser consciousness to the picture. Currently, we have apparently reached the level of being UNCONSCIOUS.

The following was sent to me by a friend who is a seasoned and wise observer and deeply cares about our country and the quality of people who make up this once respected nation. Just a final comment – there is nothing good that has ever come from being unconscious – it is merely a state where you have no control and no freedom of action.

A Parable?

Once upon a time, I was invited to the White House for a private dinner with the President. I am a respected businessman, with a factory that produces memory chips for computers and portable electronics. There was some talk that my industry was being scrutinized by the administration, but I paid it no mind. I live in a free country. There’s nothing that the government can do to me if I’ve broken no laws. My wealth was earned honestly, and an invitation to dinner with an American President is an honor.

I checked my coat, was greeted by the Chief of Staff, and joined the President in a yellow dining room. We sat across from each other at a table draped in white linen. The Great Seal was embossed on the china. Uniformed staff served our dinner.

The meal was served, and I was startled when my waiter suddenly reached out, plucked a dinner roll off my plate, and began nibbling it as he walked back to the kitchen.

“Sorry about that,” said the President. “Andrew is very hungry.”

“I don’t appreciate…” I began, but as I looked into the calm brown eyes across from me, I felt immediately guilty and petty. It was just a dinner roll. “Of course,” I concluded, and reached for my glass. Before I could, however, another waiter reached forward, took the glass away and swallowed the wine in a single gulp.

“And his brother Eric is very thirsty.” said the President.

I didn’t say anything. The President is testing my compassion, I thought. I will play along. I don’t want to seem unkind.

My plate was whisked away before I had tasted a bite.

“Eric’s children are also quite hungry.”

With a lurch, I crashed to the floor. My chair had been pulled out from under me. I stood, brushing myself off angrily, and watched as it was carried from the room.

“And their grandmother can’t stand for long.”

I excused myself, smiling outwardly, but inside feeling like a fool. Obviously I had been invited to the White House to be sport for some game. I reached for my coat, to find that it had been taken. I turned back to the President.

“Their grandfather doesn’t like the cold.”

I wanted to shout- that was my coat! But again, I looked at the placid smiling face of my host and decided I was being a poor sport. I spread my hands helplessly and chuckled. Then I felt my hip pocket and realized my wallet was gone. I excused myself and walked to a phone on an elegant side table. I learned shortly that my credit cards had been maxed out, my bank accounts emptied, my retirement and equity portfolios had vanished, and my wife had been thrown out of our home. Apparently, the waiters and their families were moving in. The President hadn’t moved or spoken as I learned all this, but finally I lowered the phone into its cradle and turned to face him.
“Andrew’s whole family has made bad financial decisions. They haven’t planned for retirement, and they need a house. They recently defaulted on a sub-prime mortgage. I told them they could have your home. They need it more than you do.”
My hands were shaking. I felt faint. I stumbled back to the table and knelt on the floor. The President cheerfully cut his meat, ate his steak and drank his wine. I lowered my eyes and stared at the small grey circles on the tablecloth that were water drops.

“By the way,” He added, “I have just signed an Executive Order nationalizing your factories. I’m firing you as head of your business. I’ll be operating the firm now for the benefit of all mankind. There’s a whole bunch of Erics and Andrews out there and they can’t come to you for jobs groveling like beggars.”

I looked up. The President dropped his spoon into the empty ramekin which had been his crème brulee. He drained the last drops of his wine. As the table was cleared, he lit a cigarette and leaned back in his chair. He stared at me. I clung to the edge of the table as if were a ledge and I were a man hanging over an abyss. I thought of the years behind me, of the life I had lived. The life I had earned with a lifetime of work, r isk and struggle. Why was I punished? How had I allowed it to be taken? What game had I played and lost? I looked across the table and noticed with some surprise that there was no game board between us.

What had I done wrong?

As if answering the unspoken thought, the President suddenly cocked his head, locked his empty eyes to mine, and bared a million teeth, chuckling wryly as he folded his hands.

“You should have stopped me at the dinner roll,” he said.
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July 12, 2009 11:25am
reid

Great parable, viking.

People who think the GFC is almost over are seriously deluding themselves.

http://www.contrarianprofits.com/articles/the-ghost-of-housing-past/18788

Have a look at this chart and note the size other lending classes that are still to show up as “toxic” relative to sub-prime. The article doesn’t discuss it but look especially the commercial real estate lending. Nearly empty office towers abound in all the major US metros…

As banks’ assets got riskier – with subprime, Alt-A and all the rest – the banks actually borrowed more to hold these assets. The typical bank has only 4 cents of tangible equity for every dollar of assets. That means a 4% drop in asset value wipes out the equity – making the bank insolvent. The banking system is vastly undercapitalized. Throughout the 1990s, banks operated on leverage of about 16-to-1. Today, they operate on 25-to-one leverage…or higher!

And this, then, answers the great fundamental question that seems to baffle so many market commentators. Why aren’t the banks lending? People point to the trillions of dollars the government pumped into the economy, including on bank balance sheets.

The answer is that the bankers know they will need the money to cover losses from their toxic loan portfolios.
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July 12, 2009 12:09pm
backster

Of course it’s not just the stupid folic acid rule that Annette KING signed the nation up too, but also all the ridiculous United Nation’s Declarations that sundry Ministers have committed the Nation too. In totem they add up to an attack on our National Sovereignty , and are about to weaken it further with the endorsement of the Global Warming Scam. Other Nations also sign up to this bureaucratic stupidity ,but then pay only lip service or ignore them completely. Not so our ruling boffins they impose them on the proletariat with a zeal matched only by our Judicial system on what we are allowed to hear about Justice in Action.
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July 12, 2009 12:11pm
philu

whoar..!..

..this is a bit of a ‘curly one’..as they say..

wot with him being a military intelligence chief honcho/dude..and all..

..eh..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/retired-us-strategic-intelligence-general-says-911-is-a-fraud/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 12, 2009 12:23pm
MT_Tinman

The four topics on Kiwiblog above this one and the one below it are all about censorship and it’s abuse.

The we-know-best scum are coming at us from all angles.

There has been a notable increase in quasi-commies, Mediterranean mystics, fanatical fuckwits (of the right and left wing) and humourless halfwits both making media reports and polluting blogs such as this one.

All good men need to take a stand, urgently, in support of our freedom, not just of speech but also of thought and action.

The time is now!
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July 12, 2009 12:24pm
reid

Yes phil, but don’t expect people to open their eyes.

Their whole world view would collapse around them.
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July 12, 2009 12:45pm
philu

and i’m sure redbaiter/bb..et al..’know’ much more than this dude..

..so will feel free to sneer..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 12, 2009 1:02pm
Jack5

New topic if I may…

Something more for the marketing wizzes at Fonterra to worry about.

There’s a boycott of some chocolate because it’s alleged to have a palm oil ingredient.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2585908/Zoo-bars-Cadbury-products

New Zealand dairy farmers are using hundreds of thousands of tonnes of palm kernel a year for stock food. This is being imported from South-east Asian plantations. Presumably some of them are on land clear-felled of hardwood forests, as will be the palms that are apparently the problem for the chocolate boycotters.
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July 12, 2009 1:22pm
philu

tinman’s funny..eh..?

you can sorta see him in a tin-hat..marching resolutely up a hill..then back down again..

..using a broom-handle as a rifle..

(bless him..!..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 12, 2009 1:30pm
Cerium

I’m not sure of where you stand on this Tinman. On one hand you seem to be criticising censorship and it’s abuse. And then you say you want to make a stand against a few vaguely described groups of people exercising their right to free speech?

Freedom of speech should include those you don’t agree with or don’t like.
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July 12, 2009 1:46pm
backster

Part of an enlightening comment from a Juror in a recent case (Stuff today) “She calls for better screening of people’s understanding of English prior to jury selection.Of the 12 on her jury, only about four spoke English as a first language.
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July 12, 2009 2:19pm
kiwipolemicist

Middlemore Hospital has a new Bright Idea for reducing the spread of swine flu:

Counties Manukau District Health Board said today there would be no more than two visitors per patient in wards, and only one visitor per patient in the emergency department.

It’s a worry when we’re supposed to entrust our health to the care of people who are so stupid as to think that this will actually achieve anything.
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July 12, 2009 2:31pm
big bruv

Phool

As it happens Tinman is a close personal friend of mine, marching up and down hills is not his game, nor is it mine.

However, if I were you I would be most concerned (should the two of you ever meet) about what he may do to a bludger like you with that broom handle, I know of few people who work as hard as Tinman, I know of few people who have faced adversity like he has and not reverted to bludging from society.

It really fucks me off to see wankers and parasites like you Phool stealing from hard working, honest Kiwi blokes who are simply working their arses off to feed their family, you Philip Ure are nothing more than a steaming pile of human waste, I wish you nothing but ill health and misfortune, in short….go fuck yourself.
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July 12, 2009 2:54pm
kiwipolemicist

big bruv:

You’re all charm 🙂
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July 12, 2009 3:11pm
reid

More on Tesla. Great pbs doco on his life.
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July 12, 2009 3:41pm
philu

did you read that piece from the general..?..there bruv..?

..9/11 was a total conspiracy/set-up..

..whoar..!

..that would/should get you really incensed..

..but..no..eh..?

..just the ‘same old..same old’..

..(and yes..!..now that you mention it..

..i cd see you and tinman marching up and down that hill together,.

..yr tin-hats encased in alumnium firmly on heads..

..you could scream insults at lefties..in time..

..eh..?

but seriously..bruv..who’d have thought it..eh..?

..in the words of that intelligence-dude/general..

..’9/11 was a fake’..

(shit..!..something else those lefties are/were ‘right’ about..eh..?

let’s check the list now..

1)..iraq war/false intelligence..

2) ..climate-change..

3)..global economic meltdown

4) meat ‘n dairy’ll kill ya..

5)..and now..9/11 a ‘fake’..

shit..!..it’s almost enough to give a rightie..’doubts’..?

mmm..??

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 12, 2009 3:52pm
Banana Llama

Just about every war we fought in as a nation has started with false flags Philu …
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July 12, 2009 4:12pm
philu

and hey..!

..where does this sound like..?

“The pattern, where environmental issues are concerned, is always the same.

You can raise any issue you like, introduce a dossier of new information, deploy a novel argument, drop a shocking revelation.

The comments which follow appear almost to have been pre-written.

Whether or not you mentioned it, large numbers will concentrate on climate change – or rather on denying its existence.

Another tranche will concentrate on attacking the parentage and lifestyle of the author.

Very few address the substance of the article.

I believe that much of this is native idiocy: the infantile blathering of people who have no idea how to engage in debate…”

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/george-monbiotclimate-denial-astroturfers-should-stop-hiding-behind-pseudonyms/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 12, 2009 4:50pm
Tauhei Notts

Jack5 at 1.22
Good point, but I doubt if palm kernel is value for money on a $4.55 payout figure.
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July 12, 2009 6:11pm
Hurf Durf

Phool and reid are troofers? Why does that not surprise me?

“4) meat ‘n dairy’ll kill ya..”

Everything can kill you, you stupid smackhead twat.

And George Moonbat can fuck off too.
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July 12, 2009 6:11pm
philu

ah..!..look..!

there’s one of them now..!

“..the infantile blathering of people who have no idea how to engage in debate…”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 12, 2009 6:28pm
reid

Hurf Durf, shame you don’t get it.

But not surprising.

Your whole world view collapses behind you.

Scawy, to some.

My actual position is: it’s an indisputable fact that the evidence for and against the official story hasn’t been properly examined. I don’t know for sure who, how and why it happened, all I know is: the debate, in full, hasn’t been had.

For such an important event with the ramifications its bought right across the world including in our own nation, I would’ve thought it was worthwhile exploring that.

But apparently, there are many complacent people out there happy to be informed by the MSM. I’m a bit surprised they include many who inhabit this blog given their constant rantings about “lefty media,” but there we are, apparently.

How odd.
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July 12, 2009 6:36pm
Hurf Durf

Muslims hijacked and crashed two planes into the World Trade Centre to destroy them in an act of terror, killing 3,000 people from all over the world. Get over it, phool and reid.

“My actual position is: it’s an indisputable fact that the evidence for and against the official story hasn’t been properly examined. I don’t know for sure who, how and why it happened, all I know is: the debate, in full, hasn’t been had.”

Imagine someone said that about the Holocaust; “there hasn’t been the debate!” They’d get laughed off. So should the troofers, in fact. And they are, thank fuck.

Here’s a good article which explains why the troof movement is a load of bunk that doesn’t go into already over-explained science of it: http://www.cracked.com/article_15740_was-911-inside-job.html. A brief excerpt:

“But the cover-up. Holy shit, guys. Covering this thing up after the fact would be like trying to keep the atomic bomb a secret after Hiroshima. Just wait ’till you hear this.

First, picture the demolitions teams wiring up the World Trade Center towers with explosives prior to the attack. Obviously you couldn’t do it during business hours, since it’d be kind of hard to explain to the 100,000 people who worked at or visited the WTC towers on any given day why you had a huge chunk of wall torn out and were wiring up a bomb on the steel beams there.

I mean, keep in mind, I don’t know how big of a job that would be (no one has ever demolished a building that size before) but a building just half the size of one WTC tower took 4,000 separate charges to bring down. Four thousand.

That job took seven months of prep work… and they had the run of an abandoned building, without having to hide their work from 100,000 people every day. Our demolition crew, on the other hand, can work only at night and has to spend the last bit of every shift carefully repairing the wall and hiding any evidence of charges or detonators as not to be discovered during the day.

Huge teams of demolitions experts, who had no problem wiring a building full of innocent New Yorkers to explode, hired in secret, worked every night for what had to be a year (and that’s only if they had a big enough crew) placing maybe 10,000 separate charges in each tower and another few thousand in WTC 7 (the smaller WTC tower that also collapsed, later in the day on 9/11).

And nobody notices.

That’s right. That’s the theory they’re putting out there. 100,000 DVDs they’ve sold with this.

Truckloads of bombs, dozens of mysterious workers, going in and out of the building, night after night. Security at the building doesn’t catch them, Port Authority Police don’t catch them, random eyewitnesses who stumble across the operation and call the cops don’t catch them, maintenance workers who stumble across wet paint and repaired walls and bits of strange wire don’t catch them, security cameras don’t catch them.

The bomb-sniffing dogs who were brought in from time to time (remember, these buildings were bombed by terrorists in 1993) who are trained to find even one bomb, fail to notice the 10,000 bombs lining their building.

If you’re saying that nothing could possibly be more retarded than that, you’re wrong.”
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July 12, 2009 7:35pm
philu

why don’t you watch what that former head of all american military intelligence alleges..and what he said..

..then come and argue them..

..instead of just presenting your ‘i won..!..you lost!’ confection..

…which is .. just that..

..go and watch the general..

..and answer that..!

(um..! does not the signifigance of who he is..cause even a moments pause in your thought..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 12, 2009 7:54pm
Hurf Durf

Went to your shitty “link aggregator” (urgh, will have to do a virus search now). 1) it’s a youtube video, 2) Mr Albert Stubblebine was the chief of the United States Army Intelligence and Security Command until 1985, and so will not have any knowledge or awareness of the relevant factors or information concerning 9/11 which happened in 2001 or any “big bad cover up,” 3) he doesn’t have a shred of proof and 4) he has an interest in parapsychology and the Stargate Project, the “umbrella code name of one of several sub-projects established by the U.S. Federal Government to investigate the reality, and potential military and domestic applications, of psychic phenomena, particularly “remote viewing:” the purported ability to psychically “see” events, sites, or information from a great distance,” so he’s probably already a whackjob who would believe that medium on Good Morning.

tl;dr: you’re talking out of your cunt. As usual. Now go and get a fucking job instead of wasting my time.
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July 12, 2009 8:05pm
Whafe

Hurf, you would get more sense out of a Scandinavian Racing Sardine than you would philu………….. But applaud you last line, a beauty for sure….. 🙂
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July 12, 2009 8:34pm
reid

Hurf Durf hows about you demonstrate your understanding of the objections millions of people including military, intelligence, scientific, political and ordinary have come up with before you state outright that your understanding is they’ve been dealt with.

What’s that?

You can’t?

Case closed, until you do.

hint: There’s lot’s of info. Open mind required. Perhaps you don’t qualify. Maybe you think LWO killed JFK while acting alone? What a big silly if so. If not, how come you understand that act and not this?
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July 12, 2009 8:37pm
reid

See, only morons concentrate on the difficulties of the act and work back from there.

That’s a fairly simple fallacy: just because you don’t know how it could be done doesn’t mean it couldn’t be done.

But forget that.

Look at how the incidents all four of them, were explained at the time.

Look carefully.

Then look at what has emerged since.

Really look at the authorities, like the 911 Commissioners that have rescinded their views, at the various intelligence people that have said all along things aren’t right in the State of Denmark.

And then, just go on ignoring it, like you always do.
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July 12, 2009 8:49pm
Hurf Durf

To have an open mind does not mean I have to let in a load of junk, you tool. Nor do I care about the objections of millions of people, who also believe that Big Oil kills polar bears for fun.

Provide me with evidence that 9/11 was a inside jorrrrrb done by the Bush administration/neocons/jews (take your pick) that doesn’t come from Loose Change or the lunatics who believe it as well as preach that flouride is a neurotoxin, that men in black helicopters steal away dissidents and that the Holocaust didn’t happen. Until then, fuck off.

And it’s Lee Harvey Oswald, you dolt. And yes he did act alone (even though I’d still approve if some big wig did it. JFK was like you – an idiot who didn’t know what he was doing).
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July 12, 2009 9:10pm
whalehunter

sounds a bit like the bain trial…
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July 12, 2009 9:10pm
reid

You know what I don’t get about people like you, Hurf Durf et al?

That you’re all quite willing to look skeptically at the AGW scam and see it for what it is, but this issue, which is EXACTLY along the same lines, simply passes people like you, by….

Provide me with evidence that 9/11 was a inside jorrrrrb done by the Bush administration/neocons/jews (take your pick) that doesn’t come from Loose Change or the lunatics who believe it as well as preach that flouride is a neurotoxin, that men in black helicopters steal away dissidents and that the Holocaust didn’t happen. Until then, fuck off.

Nah, you fuck off, moron. That’s not what I said. I said, the investigation has not been done. There are outstanding questions. If you knew what you were talking about, for example, just for a teeny example, then you’d know that the 911 Commissioner and his deputy has eschewed their own report. They were actually of a mind to prosecute the govt witnesses for failing to tell them the truth. Explain why that hasn’t caused pause for thought, just as a teeny weeny example.

And it’s Lee Harvey Oswald, you dolt. And yes he did act alone (even though I’d still approve if some big wig did it. JFK was like you – an idiot who didn’t know what he was doing).

He acted alone? By himself? Notwithstanding FBI marksmen could not replicate his feat. Notwithstanding the zeebruggee film that shows it was a headshot from the front? (Which was only available to the public by luck since the FBI confiscated all the other films, just like they did at the Pentagon.)

Etc, etc, etc.

Acquaint yourself with the facts, Hurf. And open your mind.
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July 12, 2009 9:21pm
Shunda barunda

So you are suggesting that the liberal left wing pinko media have all conspired together to protect George Dubaya?

RIGHT- EEE- HOE THEN!!!!!
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July 12, 2009 9:31pm
Hurf Durf

“They were actually of a mind to prosecute the govt witnesses for failing to tell them the truth. Explain why that hasn’t caused pause for thought, just as a teeny weeny example.”

Because they were incompetent and didn’t want to get burnt by their fucking uselessness. Sort of like you.

Yeah, yeah, FBI killed JFK, I know. They did an analysis of that “headshot from the front” thing from the ZAPRUDER film. I can’t remember specifically, but the ballistics of the shot forced his head backwards when the bullet went forwards. They used science and everything, not some lunatics GeoCities account.

So you fuck off. I don’t see why I have to swallow your coincidental horseshit. To have an open mind does not mean I have to let in a load of junk. Open your mind on this shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgtHgtyiQG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJzdJjpV3dA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vujyCCunwic

Twat.
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July 12, 2009 9:32pm
Banana Llama

I guess you could call me a skeptic but i sure as hell don’t think there were bombs in the building, it happened like we saw it, a bunch of assholes from Saudi flew planes into American land marks in an act of Terrorism.
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July 12, 2009 9:34pm
reid

So you are suggesting that the liberal left wing pinko media have all conspired together to protect George Dubaya?

No, that’s not on topic at all Shunda, why ever would you think it was related in anyway to what I was saying? (You might want to think about that.) Regardless of that however, if you want evidence that the MSM cooperates with the govt of the day whatever their stripe, have a look at this.

Yeah, yeah, FBI killed JFK, I know.

NO! Who the fuck said that, you moron? You need to stop pretending I’ve said something when I haven’t. You’re either dissembling or deliberating planting disinformation to suit your own case. Read what I said above, again. So what are ya. A lefty dissembler or a fuckwit who’s deliberately obfuscating? Try to be a bit more specific than “they” and BTW, if you want to discuss JFK, try to understand ballistics. Hint: Penn and Teller don’t. Why don’t you try Mythbusters next.

This is incidentally, giving me an idea of your level of understanding. I’ve got some comics you might be interested in but not sure you’d be able to understand their subtleties.

I guess you could call me a skeptic but i sure as hell don’t think there were bombs in the building, it happened like we saw it, a bunch of assholes from Saudi flew planes into American land marks in an act of Terrorism.

Who the hell ever said it didn’t happen like that, Banana? All I’ve ever said, is that a proper investigation has never been held, if you look into it.
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July 12, 2009 9:52pm
TimG_Oz

reid – who was it? was it the ~~jews~~ Zionists??
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July 12, 2009 9:53pm
Shunda barunda

“Who the hell ever said it didn’t happen like that, Banana? All I’ve ever said, is that a proper investigation has never been held, if you look into it.”

Two planes crash into the two biggest buildings in New York, in broad daylight, on multiple video cameras, with thousands of witnesses.
This is really a no brainer.
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July 12, 2009 9:59pm
TimG_Oz

I just forced myself to view the link-whored youtube.

One thing is absolutely certain – the US Military and US Government do not provide good enough support for old age senility diseases such as Parkinsons or Dementia, as this guy clearly seems to be a sufferer.
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July 12, 2009 10:07pm
reid

reid – who was it? was it the jews Zionists??

Tim, what about my 6:36 don’t you understand: “I don’t know for sure who, how and why it happened, all I know is: the debate, in full, hasn’t been had.”

I get the feeling you want me to say that I think it was the Israelis just so it can satisfy the pigeon-hole you’ve put me into. How about if I say, my best understanding of this at this point in time, is that Israel knew about it because of its excellent ME intelligence and told the US about it, but for reasons unknown, the US for its own reasons, ignored the warning.

That would explain the dancing Israelis and the fact that so few Israeli citizens were in those towers at 9:00 when by all accounts, they normally would have been at their desks a lot earlier, wouldn’t it, Tim.

Shunda:

No-one’s ever denied the video sequence. Just like no-one denied JFK was actually shot. That’s not the point.
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July 12, 2009 10:13pm
Banana Llama

It was in reply to 7:35 Reid (yes i am being lazy not quoting)

I have read and listened to both sides of the argument and i was left with more questions than answers, guess it comes down to how much a barrel of oil costs, which is fine, but i would rather honesty from governments than thinly veiled deceit.
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July 12, 2009 10:13pm
reid

My apologies and thanks for the clarification Banana.
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July 12, 2009 10:22pm
tom hunter

reid – who was it? was it the jews Zionists?

You’ve nailed it there TimG. Those of us familar with Reid from the good old days of Kiwipundit in 2003 have seen all this many times before and while he’s a lot shiftier about his approach nowadays (“I’m not saying I know who, but…..) there’s no doubt where it’s all sourced from mentally:

“Is the fact that Jewish people dominate ownership of US media and the fact that US media give Israel a very free ride, just a mere coincidence?”
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/03/us_journalism_political_leanings.html#comment-426500

Once you’ve swallowed that piece, the gangrenous body of hate that produced it follows naturally – and everything looks like a conspiracy.

Of all the people who inhabit, or have ever inhabited this blog, including some very screwed up lefties, it’s only Reid who makes my flesh crawl.

Still, he’s an interesting Roscharch test; I’ve seen many righties have a go at him on these issues, but probably only one leftie (SPC I recall). That tells you a lot about where they’re at.
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July 12, 2009 10:24pm
reid

Try not to obfuscate, tom. Only lefties do that.

911 and Jewish ownership of the media are two separate issues.

And BTW, try to disprove the facts behind that link.

“while he’s a lot shiftier about his approach nowadays”

I think people learn and grow. I was onto the b.s. behind 911 early. Earlier than most. I’ve matured.
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July 12, 2009 10:28pm
TimG_Oz

Oh Reid – thank you – you esposed the exact anti-semitic disproved facts that I expected from you.

Wikipedia compiles a good amount of debunking on your “so called” facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories#Jewish_involvement

“One of the most popular claims in these theories is that 4,000 Jewish employees skipped work at the World Trade Center on September 11. This was first reported on September 17 by the Lebanese Hezbollah-owned satellite television channel Al-Manar and is believed to be based on the September 12 edition of the Jerusalem Post that stated “The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attacks.”.[118] Both turned out to be incorrect;”

The thing I don’t get about you reid is that you produce the most intelligent posts about New Zealand politics (by and large), and yet when it comes to world politics you side with the exact type of thinkers that you despise so much in your own back yard.
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July 12, 2009 10:32pm
reid

No, thank YOU, Tim.

I’ll absolutely concede that point. Now, how’s about we all look into the many other things about 911 that don’t add up?

After all, you seem to be keen for the truth.
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July 12, 2009 10:38pm
Hurf Durf

“I think people learn and grow.”

Except for people like reid, who absorb, strange, insane factually decrepit conspiracy theories and revert to the level of a child.

“NO! Who the fuck said that, you moron? You need to stop pretending I’ve said something when I haven’t.”

Yeah, you’re right, you didn’t. You begged the question.

“He acted alone? By himself? Notwithstanding FBI marksmen could not replicate his feat. Notwithstanding the zeebruggee film that shows it was a headshot from the front? (Which was only available to the public by luck since the FBI confiscated all the other films, just like they did at the Pentagon.)”
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July 12, 2009 10:40pm
reid

Yeh, I only use the word “moron” when provoked, Hurf Durf.

Do you have a point?
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July 12, 2009 10:43pm
TimG_Oz

Reid said:

“Now, how’s about we all look into the many other things about 911 that don’t add up?”

Except – if you are esposing such tripe that is so easily disproven, then how can I believe any of the other “facts” you are providing?

“After all, you seem to be keen for the truth.”

No I just want you to stop repeating anti-semitic BS you find from very suspicious sources on Kiwiblog.
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July 12, 2009 10:56pm
reid

Tim, if I have to explain to you the problems with 911, then you haven’t been paying any attention at all to anything over the last seven years.

Secondly, give me an example of anti-semitic BS I’ve spread from very suspicious sources on KB, Tim.

Hint: If you choose to refer to Tom’s linked list of media owners, then be prepared to say exactly what’s wrong with it. I accept BTW it may be out of date, it is an old post, after all.
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July 12, 2009 11:00pm
TimG_Oz

Thanks tom hunter too – I have only been on here for about 6 months, and I can’t believe the stuff that reid has espoused. My first contact with reid was when he picked a fight with me for highlighting an example in Auckland where a Jew + Palestinian work together – something which is a lot more common than people might think.

I don’t know if everybody else just ignores what reid says, but I often think that if I didn’t expose his posts as BS, nobody else would. Thankfully – that’s usually easy to do.

BTW Jews or Zionists control neither the World’s media nor the world’s finances, nor the US government. That is anti-semitic crap started by Henry Ford, and carried on by anti-semites to this day

http://www.zionismontheweb.org/antizionism/Zionists_Control_the_Banks.htm
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July 12, 2009 11:09pm
reid

Ah, our usual Sunday stoush. OK Tim.

Zionists really really stink. They’re arseholes. They are the people that kill innocent people and occupy territory they aren’t entitled to and make Israel one of the most hated nations on Earth amongst most people. And you know what? People like you seem for some reason to conflate them with Israel. For some reason.

Question: do you think that zionists want to destroy Israel or are protecting the interests of the Israeli people?

Before you answer, consider what they have done to the reputation of Israel which, if things were different: i.e. Zionists did not exist, could have been quite different to what it is today.

Yes, Israeli nationalism was necessary for the security of Israel as she was becoming established. However, once she became established (i.e. got nukes), the need for her to act as an arsehole, disappeared. Ever since however, she has continued to act as an arsehole. With predictable consequences to her world-wide reputation and to her regional security.

Yes, the Arabs hate Israel. Ever think about cause and effect? Hmmm??
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July 12, 2009 11:19pm
TimG_Oz

“Secondly, give me an example of anti-semitic BS I’ve spread from very suspicious sources on KB, Tim.”

My favourite is you blaming the Jews … oh I mean the Mossad for desecrating the cemetary in Wellington. And it was just like Tom Hunter quote “I’m not sure, but does anybody find it suspicious that ….”

Another example was blaming Israel for Russia invading Georgia. Gold.
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July 12, 2009 11:29pm
reid

Suspicious?

So tell me Tim where’s your evidence that:

it wasn’t the Mossad who did the cemetary. Oh, that’s right, I didn’t say it was in the first place, did I. Bzzzzt.

And please please please Tom, please try to tell me that the IDF wasn’t in Georgia. Go on.
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July 12, 2009 11:34pm
Hurf Durf

Hey reid:

“Palestinians” don’t actually exist. They are Jordanians. Or, they would be if Jordan cared enough about them enough to not make them political pawns, same with Egypt.

Everyone knows “Palestine” wouldn’t be a viable state anyway. “Palestinians” as a whole are too deranged and childlike to be able to function sensibly and rationally. Israel knows this, so do I, as a matter of fact.
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July 12, 2009 11:35pm
Shunda barunda

“Yes, the Arabs hate Israel. Ever think about cause and effect? Hmmm??”

I think most people use cause and effect to come to the conclusion that 911 was done by a bunch of pissed off Muslims.
There is no conspiracy, it was an act of hatred towards America by enemies of America.
It’s not as if we haven’t already seen a multitude of other such events by these people before.
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July 12, 2009 11:35pm
reid

“Question: do you think that zionists want to destroy Israel or are protecting the interests of the Israeli people?”

I’d really like an answer to that, too, Tim.
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July 12, 2009 11:38pm
reid

“Palestinians” don’t actually exist. They are Jordanians. ”

Well apparently they think they exist, Hurf Durf. Perhaps they don’t care enough about what you think. Perhaps you should go and explain to them the situation, as you see it.

Hows about I call them Palestinians until you let me know otherwise?
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July 12, 2009 11:43pm
Banana Llama

well Reid dose have a point, since it was Georgia who invaded Russian protectorates.

“Israel should be proud of its military which trained Georgian soldiers” – Georgian Minister Temur Yakobashvili

lol que ¿
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July 12, 2009 11:46pm
reid

think most people use cause and effect to come to the conclusion that 911 was done by a bunch of pissed off Muslims. There is no conspiracy, it was an act of hatred towards America by enemies of America. It’s not as if we haven’t already seen a multitude of other such events by these people before.

Oh no question Shunda, there was motive. Question is, they executed maneuvers in extremely well-guarded airspace that in normal circumstances resulted in fighter scrambles within minutes and yet, three times that day, nothing happened, for hours.

That’s just one of the many many many questions that haven’t been fully and I mean fully explored. Sure, Dan Rather has done a piece on it for the useful idiots, but you’re not one of those, are you? I know you’re not.
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July 12, 2009 11:46pm
Hurf Durf

They think, but they actually aren’t. Just like you think that your precious 9/11 conspiracy theories deserve serious consideration.
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July 12, 2009 11:47pm
reid

“Just like you think that your precious 9/11 conspiracy theories deserve serious consideration.”

Hey Hurf, I don’t give a fuck what you think. I know that my understanding explains a whole hell of a lot about the world today and that’s proved by both predictive accuracy in terms of what’s happening next and also in after the fact facts which I suspected beforehand that are subsequently revealed.

I know that 911 was an important historical event that I rarely pay any attention to these days, which set me up to understand a whole spectrum of stuff that I never even saw before.

If you don’t want to play in that space, that’s your choice and I don’t care. It’s a shame in that you live in ignorance. You don’t know you do, but you do.

Good evening to you all.

If anyone ever wants information, feel free to email me anytime. I think my real email is on my profile.
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July 12, 2009 11:56pm
TimG_Oz

[Firstly sorry everybody – I didn’t want to bring this to be an Israel/anti-semitism debate]

Lets just analyse your statements reid .. this is great – you are starting to rant

“Zionists really really stink. They’re arseholes.”

Who are Zionists? Oh – you mean the Jews. Yep. OK so you don’t like the Jews…

So do the Jews want to destroy Israel? Well clearly since:

a) They have nowhere else to go. [Clearly by your language you’d be p*ssed if some zionist a-hole comes to live next to you]
b) They are attached to the land … well hey, what drew them there in the first place? Oh yeah, they’d been praying to it for 2000 odd years
c) Nobody else likes them living there, but probably wouldn’t like them living anywhere else (this is pretty similar to point a + b) – reminds me of the Yiddush Policemans union by Michael Chabon

Then no, I don’t think they want to destroy Israel, cos then they’d have nowhere to live. Pretty simple, huh?
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July 12, 2009 11:58pm
Hurf Durf

I suppose “the jews do everything bad” is sort of comforting in explaining those terrible unexplainables. It also allows you to feel intellectually superior when you are not. What a fantastic coping mechanism! I’d copy it, but I’m not a loser.
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July 13, 2009 12:00am
Shunda barunda

“they executed maneuvers in extremely well-guarded airspace that in normal circumstances resulted in fighter scrambles within minutes and yet, three times that day, nothing happened, for hours.”

And I think the American people and govt were horrified at how vulnerable they really were. In reality reid, you can not scramble fighter jets every time a passenger jet deviates off coarse, you also can’t just start shooting down planes full of innocent people based on a hunch.
Bureaucracy moves too slow to stop radicals killing themselves and others as it’s happening, they can only try and make rules to stop future attacks.
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July 13, 2009 12:22am
reid

Tim, just caught your reply before retiring. Understand you’re two hours behind but must go, myself. Will return around 6PM my time tommorrow.

“Who are Zionists? Oh – you mean the Jews.”

Oh no, Tim. Oh no. Whyever would you imagine I’d conflate the two? What a big silly you are. The zionists are the people who murdered Rabin, the people who destroyed the IDF’s reputation through engineering a war that ended in defeat in Lebanon, the people who destroyed Israel’s global reputation by engineering the Gaza conflict. If one was a conspiracy theorist which of course I’m not, one would also say that they are the people who took out Sharon because he refused to go into Lebanon because he knew it was a bad idea. Those are the zionists.

The rest of your post really does indicate you have CONFLATED zionists and Jews, which is the distinction that the question in my provocative 11:19 was all about. Here it is again:

Question: do you think that zionists want to destroy Israel or are protecting the interests of the Israeli people?

Now Tim, seriously, I know from past contacts you are a seriously patriotic Israeli, but until you stop pretending that in order to be a friend of the Jewish people I need to be a friend of the zionists, you and I are never going to agree. If you can’t make that distinction then fine. However, if you can, and I think you can, then let’s make a better attempt to understand where each other is coming from and I think thereby we can actually make some useful headway because I sense you have an understanding which I don’t and which I’d like to understand. As I’ve said before, I am for the Jewish people but their govt which is zionist, really doesn’t serve their interests.

Tom’s posts from 2003 as I said were from a formative period and while I’ve grown in understanding from there I don’t rescind those views. You need to look at the distinction I make between the Jewish people and zionists to appreciate that.
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July 13, 2009 12:29am
reid

“And I think the American people and govt were horrified at how vulnerable they really were. In reality reid, you can not scramble fighter jets every time a passenger jet deviates off coarse, you also can’t just start shooting down planes full of innocent people based on a hunch.”

Shunda, they did it 400 or 600 times in the 12 months preceeding 911. Within 10 mins.

That was standard operating procedure.

Thought you would have known that.
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July 13, 2009 12:32am
TimG_Oz

reid – In Israel I met religious Jew, non-religious Jew, pro-zionist Jew, anti zionist Jew, arab muslim (israeli + palestinian), arab christian (ditto), West Bank Settlers, left wing kibbutzniks, druze, bedouin, protesters, aid workers, Amos Oz (a highlight), politicians, shop keepers, taxi drivers, russians, Ethiopians, Yemenites. I am not an and have never been an Israeli citizen, only ever New Zealand and Australian.

I have never ever seen any evidence of any kind of cartel that would engineer any of the events you mention. If there ever was such evidence it would be splashed throughout haaretz, J-Post and Yedioth Ahronoth, as all other Israeli + Jewish scandals quickly are. And Israelis would be furious – as they were with Rabin’s murder.

The definition of Zionism that I would most closely define would be covered something like this: http://www.zionism-israel.com/zionism_definitions.htm

Your definition of zionism appears to be more closely aligned with the protocols of the elders of zion – a fraudulent piece of anti-semitic literarture.
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July 13, 2009 12:55am
Hurf Durf

“the people who destroyed the IDF’s reputation through engineering a war that ended in defeat in Lebanon, the people who destroyed Israel’s global reputation by engineering the Gaza conflict.”

You mean Hamas and Hezbollah? Since when are they “zionist”?

“If one was a conspiracy theorist which of course I’m not,”

Oh lol.

Zionists, neocons, jews – they’re all the same to reid the cleverclogs who knows what we don’t.
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July 13, 2009 12:57am
TimG_Oz

SB – Reid will continue his conspiracy theories all day:

“Shunda, they did it 400 or 600 times in the 12 months preceeding 911. Within 10 mins.

That was standard operating procedure.”

Reid really should read the wikipedia page – it is a good compilation of refuting of BS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/911_conspiracy_theories#Main_issues

In reality, it is neither quick nor easy to locate and intercept a plane behaving erratically. The hijackers turned off or disabled the onboard radar transponders. Without these transponder signals to identify the airplanes, the hijacked airplanes would have been only blips among 4,500 other blips on NORAD’S radar screens, making them very difficult to track.[47][48]

In fact, only 14 fighter jets were on alert in the contiguous 48 states on 9/11. There was no automated method for the civilian air traffic controllers to alert NORAD. “They had to pick up the phone and literally dial us,” says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. According to Popular Mechanics,[48]
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July 13, 2009 12:59am
RKBee

Couple of interesting comments on NBR site From the Horses Mouth.
The Depth of National…Worrying!
By Rusty Kane.

Some breads only is way to go

The Bread Bakers choice of adding Folic Acid to some breads only is the obvious and sensible way to go about this. It should still placate the idiots in Australia – since when does bread made in NZ get sold in Oz?. Safety of the population majority has to be at the forefront.

folic acid

key needs to move swiftly to stem the damage done by kate wilkinson in her q & a interview!!
we want a government that is in control to repair the damage done by 9 years of cullen/clark incompentence! not one that is controlled by beauracrats!
the public service has been stacked with “lefties” and a prime mission of our new govt must be to weed them out !!
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July 13, 2009 6:15pm
reid

As I said above Tim, I lost interest in 911 long ago and haven’t thought about it for years. NORAD failures were only an extremely minor aspect of that whole extraordinary day, try not to build your whole case around that. I only mentioned it because Shunda did. In hindsight I shouldn’t have because once you start analysing anything about it, it takes a lot of time and I lost interest in doing that a long time ago, because…

911 is merely a portal, it opens up lots of things, like this possible explanation of the recent Chinese riots. Of course, keep looking at Popular Mechanics as well, just make sure it’s not the only thing you look at.

http://www.ae911truth.org/ is one of the better sites for those with open minds. There’s a free vid on the left, well worthwhile.
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July 13, 2009 10:53pm

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