General Debate 30 June 2009

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terry

Does the Road Transport Forum work out of the Ministers office….?

Road Transport Forum chief executive Tony Friedlander is a former National Party cabinet minister……

50 tonne trucks will each cause 6,250,000 times more damage to the roads than a one tonne car, according to a formula developed by Transit New Zealand….

Trucking companies use the roads paid for by the average motorist, yet they don’t pay even a fraction of the cost of the damage they do….

So we the taxpayer and ratepayer and ordinary motorists prop up trucking companies….

New Zealands economic future shall need a multi-modal supply chain to handle the increase of freight volumes predicted in the next thirty years…
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June 30, 2009 7:47am
Colonel Masters

But terry, you posted this same comment yesterday at 3.23pm…

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/general_debate_29_june_2009.html#comment-578180
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June 30, 2009 8:09am
wreck1080

Terry, truckies will simply pass cost increases onto the consumer.

So, you will still end up paying one way or another.

You need to look at the whole picture, not just roading.

My preference is for all transport subsidies (rail, bus, and shipping) to be removed. Car/truck drivers will pay the true cost of their road usage.

Only this will maximise the efficiency of the transportation system.
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June 30, 2009 8:10am
radvad

Sorry Neda, but we are too busy worshipping a guy who slept with boys.
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June 30, 2009 8:27am
Tui

I’d like to have some meaningful discussion on a supercity for Wellington. Judging from the feedback on the Auckland Supercity, the main gripe is the consultation process and using urgency to pass the legislation. Wellington has the WCC, the Porirua City Council, the Hutt City Council and the Upper Hutt City Council.

I don’t see any need to have an Upper Hutt City Council or a Porirua City Council. Upper Hutt could be part of Hutt City Council and Porirua part of Wellington if there were a compromise. Councils have programmes they wish to follow and this needs a good rating base and a certain level of home ownership. Porirua and Upper Hutt don’t have the rating base that Wellington does so at present (and Hutt)

Labour should support the one-city or two-city idea as it means that the combined rating base would be shared and more services could be provided to those in need. There’d have to be a suitable ward system and election system and decent consultation.

Not sure about Kerry Prendegast’s position on the SuperCity but I don’t think she’d be keen on sharing the spoils.
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June 30, 2009 8:31am
philu

this is interesting..

..it’s about america..

..but also applies here..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/abyss-of-joblessness-the-economy-cant-improve-unless-we-put-people-back-to-work/

(and how about that ‘terry’..?..eh..?

..four comments old..and already plagiarising himself..

..whoar..!

..i mean..i agree with his sentiments expressed..but..y’know..!..

..maybe he needs to try a little harder..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 8:46am
Inventory2

So is Mathieu Bastareaud bad, or mad?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/06/bad-or-mad.html
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June 30, 2009 9:15am
Inventory2

Does Terry work for KiwiRail perchance? Well spotted Colonel Masters 🙂
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June 30, 2009 9:16am
philu

and..um..!..revelations in britain how their privatising of prisons..has..on all stats/accounts..

..pretty much gone pear-shaped..

..(and..just as we set off down than path..eh..?

..will we learn from their mistakes..?

..like hell we will..!

..we’ve got our privatising-prisons-blinkers on..

..eh..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/private-prisons-performing-worse-than-state-run-jails/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 9:17am
CraigM

Very pleased to see more of the health spend actually being spent on health outcomes.

Cudos to the government for getting the private sector involved in reducing the public surgical waiting list. Common sense has prevailed, needless suffering will be reduced, our tax dollars will be better utilised, our meagre medical staffing resources will be more efficiently used.

Good news.
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June 30, 2009 9:20am
Ratbiter

I see Social Development is now following Justice in cutting hundreds of jobs. Makes a bit of a LIE of J. Messiah Key’s pre-election promise that your National Government would cap, not cut, public sector employment levels.

Just lies, lies, lies, and more lies; that’s all the right ever have… (as baiter might say)

[DPF: And then $50 billion got wiped out of the economy. When will you lefties realise borrow and spend will doom you at the next election]
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June 30, 2009 9:22am
Ryan Sproull

Anyone have thoughts on the coup in Honduras?

Has New Zealand issued a condemnation yet?
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June 30, 2009 9:38am
Inventory2

@ Ratbiter – in case you hadn’t noticed, from the time the Prefu was released (PRIOR to the election, i.e. DURING the campaign) to the incoming Government’s briefing from Treasury the economy tanked. Would you prefer TWO decades of deficits?
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June 30, 2009 9:39am
big bruv

Comrade Key is at it again I see, through Jonathan Coleman he is about to introduce a bill that will make the children of over stayers eligible for free education.

Why the hell are the people of NZ being told that we have to fund the education of illegal over stayers?

This is another example of Neville Key pandering to Labour voters, the man is a fucking disgrace.
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June 30, 2009 9:43am
whalehunter

i cant wait to see what National does with the review of the Foreshore and Seabed bill….
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June 30, 2009 9:51am
MyNameIsJack

A famous Kiwi company with links to the America’s Cup has gone into receivership, blaming economic hard times and the volatile kiwi dollar.

Just imagine if they’d kept manufacturing in NZ, kept kiwis employed. The low dollar would not be a problem.
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June 30, 2009 9:56am
big bruv

MNIJ

Just imagine if that same famous company had moved its manufacturing offshore years ago, they would still be in business today.
One of the few good things to come out of this economic downturn is the realisation that we are wasting our time manufacturing something that can be made at a tenth of the cost offshore.
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June 30, 2009 10:00am
ovation

“Just imagine if they’d kept manufacturing in NZ, kept kiwis employed. The low dollar would not be a problem.”

Quite right, but before you get all teary eyed and patriotic keep in mind the increased NZD revenue would be offset by much higher priced wages, raw material imports, and misc compliance costs.
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June 30, 2009 10:02am
Owen McShane

It’s the load per wheel that counts.
So a heavier truck with more axles and wider tyres than a lighter truck with fewer axles and narrower tyres will do less damage than the lighter truck.
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June 30, 2009 10:07am
terry

i am not employed by kiwirail…however Jim Bolger is the chairman…ex national prime minister…but went on holiday and found a lady sitting at his desk when he came home….

frieght volumes are budgeted to increase 2.2 times more than currently…current congestion costs are estimated to be up to 900 million dollars a year for auckland currently..only building more roads shall only increase these costs….

building more roads increases the congestion….motorway to wellsford means more people may live further from auckland and travel….

local government budgets major cost component are related to roading….

we can stick our head in the sand…and keep building roads while ignoring other modes of transport…and put our economic future at risk….

the savings if any with the super city is insignificant when auckland congestion costs are taken into account….

the private sector has had a few goes at rail…however never delivered….
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June 30, 2009 10:07am
Owen McShane

Before Wellington rushes were angels fear to tread, consider this from the Cordillera Institute in Canada which has examined all the recent top down amalgamations in Canada and North American and found them seriously wanting, For example:

How Have Other Consolidations Fared?
To this day, we have yet to find a single merged municipality anywhere in Canada which outperformed its predecessors. And, from our discussions with those who have investigated mergers in the U.S., the experience has been much the same. Yet, despite the dismal record of mergers here in North America, I retain an open mind on the question. On a number of occasions, I have invited our readers to alert us to examples of merged municipalities — forced or voluntary — which have improved the productivity and accountability of their predecessors. Over the years, a number of candidates have been submitted. However, when the layers of the onion were peeled back, the bottom line was the same. That said, we have very little information comparing the before-and-after-merger performance of municipalities in Australia, New Zealand, or the U.K. So, I urge our readers in those jurisdictions to bring any potential candidates to our attention. In the interim, the question remains …

Why the Difference Between Projections and Reality?
In theory at least, it would seem that the economies of scale and their resulting savings should be there. And, there have been many studies produced by reputable firms which project significant savings if mergers occur. The only problem is that these projected savings never seem to materialize. This is not a slap at the consultants who did the studies. As a former consultant myself, I understand how an exhaustive study that showed potential annual savings of $400 million could be used by others to promote a merger which, in fact, resulted in no savings. And, it generated transition costs which are said to have exceeded the amount of those projected savings. That example is the 1998 Toronto amalgamation. The reason for the 180 degree difference between the projection and the actual is the product of the decisions made by those — both elected and employed — charged with mandating the merger and those charged with carrying it out. Cost-benefit analyses are rarely able to quantify this factor. Nor do most terms of reference given to consultants even request that input. So, the most comprehensive and diligent studies can be rendered valueless if policy-makers and central planners follow a different script. In Issue 01.26, there are more explanations of why municipal mergers have failed to measure up.
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June 30, 2009 10:13am
MyNameIsJack

Quote of the day.

“The bad news is that your God was born imperfect. The good news is that he doesn’t really exist.”
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June 30, 2009 10:18am
ovation

I would love to see a newspaper article with something similar to the following

“Company X has gone into liquidation citing no understanding of economic cycles and reliance on overly optimistic projections”
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June 30, 2009 10:18am
Jack5

Notice how the MSM has climbed aboard the anti-referendum wagon on smacking? Fairly Fucked Media NZ’s papers are hammering the cost of the referendum. The Christchurch Press, today for example, is focusing on on the woman in whose name the referendum petition was submitted and says if she does not withdraw the referendum it will cost the country another $6m.

The MSM probably cost taxpayers as much as that a year with about a dozen Government-funded institutions offering journalism training, let alone the other skills of media workers such as sound engineering, electronics engineering, graphic arts etc?

Of course none of this would have arisen if National hadn’t joined Labour in trying to white ant the referendum. This issue just might make John Key look like a reincarnation of Neville Chamberlain.

For goodness sake let people have their say. It seems MPs aren’t happy with ignoring referendums (referenda), they want to wipe them out.
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June 30, 2009 10:24am
terry

im sorry philu..

..i was wondering why people were calling me philu on some blogs.?..i dont know who you are..i dont think we are related…

..however its a free world…

..im not sure if people were trying to insult me or not by calling me philu….

…can someone tell me which referencing system we are to use…i was told when at university only to use limited internet sources…

..what are the rules…?
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June 30, 2009 10:24am
Cerium

Jack5, the referendum may let people have their say, but how on earth will anyone be able to know what was said? There will be as many interpretations of the results (mostly biased one way or the other) as there are of the question.
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June 30, 2009 10:34am
MyNameIsJack

The referendum would be much easier to understand if they’d aske d the right question – Should psycopaths who cannot control their temper be allowed to bash kids as a form of stress relief?
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June 30, 2009 10:38am
Jack5

In response to MyNameisJack, at 10.38.

You are well off the mark here MNIJ. Psychopaths generally control their temper better than most normal people. They are cool, calculated creeps. When they are cruel and vicious, they act in a cold-blooded way.

Also psychopaths are such slimy bastards they would be unlikely to bash their kids — that would draw too much attention to themselves and hinder projects of more widespread mayhem.

Cerium: you continue the Labour-National-Green obfuscation line. If citizens can raise enough signatures to have a petition, let them have it. Worry about implementation (and interpretation if necessary afterwards).

It seems rather smug, superior, and even head-up-arse to suggest ordinary citizens are incapable of formulating questions on important matters.
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June 30, 2009 10:45am
MyNameIsJack

The poster boy for the no vote – looks like YES will romp in

“Smacking isn’t the first thing I turn to. It’s the last thing I do, but if they need a smack, they need a smack,” he said.

“Sometimes `Stop or I’ll shoot’ doesn’t work and you have to pull the trigger.”

Stop, or I’ll shoot? What a great parenting style he has.

“I’m seriously thinking of running for Parliament. I really do think we’re run by a bunch of idiots,” he said.

And what will he do when a division goes against him? Shoot someone? Punch them in the face?

Jimmy mason. You are a disgrace.
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June 30, 2009 10:47am
philu

guess what..?

‘terry’ is that weird stalking lawyer-person..

what’s their name again..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 10:48am
big bruv

Hey Phool, how long have you been on a benefit?
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June 30, 2009 10:54am
Cerium

Were you suggesting that Jack5? No one else did.
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June 30, 2009 10:56am
Jack5

MNIJ at 10.47: Are you referring to another post? I can’t find it? Where is it please?

And Philu: Do people come to your blog and disrupt threads of debate with their advertisements?

Cerium at 10.56. Not sure what you mean here Cerium?
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June 30, 2009 10:56am
Cerium

Jack5 at 10.45: It seems rather smug, superior, and even head-up-arse to suggest ordinary citizens are incapable of formulating questions on important matters.
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June 30, 2009 11:00am
philu

hey bruv..!..how long have you been a hypocritical ‘animal-lover’..

..and hey..!..’loving’ them both baked and fried..

..dosen’t really ‘count’..

..eh..?

(should we start calling you ‘big hypocrite’..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 11:03am
Jack5

Cerium at 11am. Thanks for the quick response.

Well it does seem a bit like the attitude of feed them bread and circuses (rugby stadiums and subsidised state TV and radio) but ignore them otherwise as too stupid to know what is good for them.

I dispute your view that no-one else shares the following opinion: that politicians trying to squash this referendum and generally ignore referendums (referenda) is an arrogant, superior, smug and head-up-arse attitude on the part of those politicians.

There will be at least several thousand who vote no in the referendum I expect.
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June 30, 2009 11:05am
Cerium

Jack5 11.05am: I dispute your view that no-one else shares the following opinion: that politicians trying to squash this referendum and generally ignore referendums (referenda) is an arrogant, superior, smug and head-up-arse attitude on the part of those politicians.

I didn’t express a view anything like that.

If we want to try and influence politicians we need clearly expressed issues. I think the current referendum is anything but clear. What will the “several thousand who vote no” be saying? Any of:

I don’t like virtually all parents being labeled as criminals.
I think any smacking kids is ok.
I think some smacking of kids is ok.
I’ll belt my kids if I want to.
I feel guilty because I have smacked my kids.
The government can’t tell me how to be a parent.
I’m pissed off with Labour.
Sue Bradford is a wanker.
I didn’t understand the question.
My pastor told me to vote no.
I’m against anything that involves the government.
I’m voting no to nanny state.
I’m voting no to PC.
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June 30, 2009 11:26am
big bruv

Come on Phool, it is a simple question, how long have you been stealing from the rest of us?
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June 30, 2009 11:45am
Jack5

Re Cerium at 11.26…

I think the question reads: “Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?”

It’s clear enough. Easy enough to decide yes or no. If citizens want a referendum on that and raise sufficient signatures let them have it. Why not? They pay for Parliament. They pay for the referendum. They pay the MPs’ salaries and perks.

Why should an axis comprising MPs, leftists, liberal centrists, Greens supported by state-owned and foreign-owned news media become some sort of censor as to what wording is fit for a referendum?

In truth, their campaign is just part of a campaign to shut down the debate on state intrusion into families.
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June 30, 2009 11:48am
Jack5

Philu … are you trying to shut down the referendum line of debate in this thread, or are you just generally trolling for visitors to your blog?
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June 30, 2009 11:50am
big bruv

200 Jobs to go at MSD…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2551630/Ministry-for-Social-Development-to-axe-200-jobs

This is great news!.

Given that I am more than happy to have a crack at Key when he fucks up I think I should praise the man when he gets it right, well done Mr Key, now please make more decisions like this and less of the pinko type.
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June 30, 2009 12:04pm
Cerium

Jack5, that question may be clear to you, but it is not clear to many. The MSM have woken up to that belatedly. Even Larry Baldock has suggested that it really means “vote yes if you want the law to stay as it is, vote no to change it back to what it was”. With that flexibility in interpretation it could be made to mean anything.

Is your interpretation of the referendum “should the state intrude into families”?
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June 30, 2009 12:05pm
Jack5

Re Cerium at 12.05:

No, I don’t interpret the referendum meaning anything beyond the words expressed of the question that presumably will be on the voting paper.

I believe that some, perhaps many or even most, of those who oppose the referendum, stand for more state intrusion into families. They believe that the State, through civil servants, can handle many things better than parents, from sex education to discipline to inculcating beliefs about many matters whose teaching has traditionally been the preserve of parents.

However, that’s not what I will be thinking about when I vote in the referendum. I will be simply answering the question on the ballot paper.

I believe referendums (referenda) in general are more important and significant under MMP that they were under the previous First Past the Post electoral system. With an electorate MP, you can reject that MP in a subsequent general election if you disagree strongly enough with that MP’s conscience vote, perhaps even if you generally agree with the party of that MP.

In conscience votes, list MPs, as under MMP, do not answer to voters. How do you express disagreement with them over conscience votes? You can’t. Only the party hierarchies that rank list MPs can have any active response to their conscience votes.

I see referendums/referenda as one way of retaining some citizen power v. party power, which has increased under MMP.
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June 30, 2009 12:15pm
Owen McShane

I understand that more people signed up for the referendum than voted for the Greens in the last election.
Is this true?
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June 30, 2009 12:37pm
MyNameIsJack

And more people voted labour at the last election than signed up for the referendum.

What was your point again?
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June 30, 2009 12:46pm
Cerium

Jack5 12.25: I see referendums/referenda as one way of retaining some citizen power v. party power, which has increased under MMP.

I agree with this – as long as we have an effective referendum system and as David Lange predicted, our CIR is not.

I believe that everyone who votes yes or no wants a degree of “state intrusion into families”, from pre-natal care through maternity, Plunket, kindergarten, school, doctors, police and fire protections ambulance etc etc.

And everyone doesn’t want state intrusion when it gets up their noses.

No state can keep all of the people happy all of the time. And no family wants to do without the state.
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June 30, 2009 1:15pm
Jack5

Thanks Owen McShane (12.37 post) for bringing in the Greens.

They have been at the ruckus about smacking by parents and laws against it. They were also the core strength of the campaign for the switch to MMP.

I can’t speak for Mr McShane, of course, but deduce that perhaps he was implying the number of people who signed the petition for the referendum outweigh the number who backed the Melon Green/Bradford stirrers who caused the law change that prompted the referendum call.

Cerium: Is it the state’s job to keep us happy? Should it be like a kindergarten teacher keeping us happy?
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June 30, 2009 1:19pm
Jack5

Whoops! In my 1.19 post I meant to write the Greens have been at the centre of the ruckus about smacking by parents and laws against it.
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June 30, 2009 1:23pm
MyNameIsJack

Jack5, the law we have now, the law that is the subject of this stupid and pointless referendum, is not the law that Bradford proposed.

Bradford wanted the repeal of S59. What we have is a re written S59. A re written S59 passed by the overwhelming majority of our representatives, very few of whom were sent packing at the last election.

IF this is such a major issue, why isn’t Larry Baldock PM?
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June 30, 2009 1:39pm
Nomestradamus

Phool:

guess what..?

‘terry’ is that weird stalking lawyer-person..

what’s their name again..?

Not me. But I won’t hold my breath waiting for an apology from you.
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June 30, 2009 1:42pm
Nomestradamus

Oh, by the way Phool, you just name-call because you hate having your “predictions” shown up. Happy to run through them anytime you claim to be an expert on anything (other than sucking on the taxpayers’ collective tit).
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June 30, 2009 1:51pm
Jack5

MyNameisJack posted at 1.39 on the “smacking referendum”: “…IF this is such a major issue, why isn’t Larry Baldock PM?”

You might also ask if parents’ smacking children is such a major issue, why didn’t the Greens vote Bradford co-leader?
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June 30, 2009 2:12pm
Cerium

Jack5: Is it the state’s job to keep us happy?

Shouldn’t be. But that is what a lot of people want, from those think they are owed permanent financial assistance to those who think crims should be permanently removed….

Jack5: Should it be like a kindergarten teacher keeping us happy?

….and those who want their kids to be happy at kindergarten.

Almost everyone wants the state to intrude into families who kill their kids.
Most people want the state to intrude when families badly treat their kids.
A lot of people want the state to intrude when families deliberately hurt their kids “too much”.
Some people think families shouldn’t deliberately hurt their kids at all.

The last two are the big grey area that the debate is about.
It is not about intrusion of the state. It is about the degree of intrusion versus the degree of hurt.
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June 30, 2009 2:21pm
philu

interesting how nosty has outed his/herself as “..that weird stalking lawyer-person..”..eh..?

and predictions..?..nosty..?..(this is very boring..btw)..try ‘global economic meltdown driven by untramelled rightwing greed”..

..you could start there..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 3:47pm
Nomestradamus

Phool:

I just happen to know that’s the label you try to pin on me.

My friends wouldn’t describe me as weird or stalking. I can only imagine how they’d describe someone like you – who claims the DPB on spurious grounds while apparently having unlimited time to blog. What did Glubbster make of you:

Essentially your credentials are not exactly inspiring, especially for a 57 year old. I almost feel sorry for you but you dont blog like in any genuine way so I’m not sure you deserve any sympathy. You are an outsider aren’t you, the kind of guy who expects people not to like him and has limited social skills & therefore has few friends.

Ouch!

And, boast if you like, but you weren’t the first one to identify the global financial crisis. I did note on this thread that, when challenged by Reid, you couldn’t discuss the global financial crisis in any detail at all. So you obviously don’t understand the global financial crisis you claim to have predicted! And about those election predictions (national election and Mt Albert by-election) – how did they turn out for you?
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June 30, 2009 4:29pm
MyNameIsJack

And another one bites the dust (or ocean)

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25712691-661,00.html

And we thought Jetstar was having a bad trot.
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June 30, 2009 4:32pm
bjchip

You should note that the Greens themselves are divided over S59 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/06/24/what-do-the-kids-think/ … read the comments.

Sue Bradford had a private member’s bill passed, not a piece of Green legislation. Some in the party went all out. Some argued against. The thread I point to is one of at least 50 or so that have been devoted to this issue over the past couple of years with similar arguments made.

All irrelevant now. The law we have permits smacking and it permits smacking with a baseball-bat between the eyes if it is done to prevent disruptive behavior… the only forbidden smack is a correction. The vague nature of the initial law is retained in the current law and there is no real advantage to either. The interesting thing is that NOBODY is telling anyone that smacking IS legal under specified conditions which cover most of the conditions we’d normally do it anyway.

respectfully
BJ
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June 30, 2009 4:33pm
philu

“..And, boast if you like, but you weren’t the first one to identify the global financial crisis..”

i have never said i was the ‘first’..but i did hear the specific/sub-prime warnings of others early on..

..and they seemed to make a lot of sense..

(roubini..andrew leonard at salon..and others..)

..which is why i started passing them on..(in early aug ’06…)

..a search on the whoar database.will confirm this..

..(the rest of it you are just blowing out yr arse..

..eh..?)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 6:01pm
philu

and who is this ‘reid’ person you keep talking about..?

.is that another of your ‘personas’..?..

..weird stalking lawyer-person..

..and hey..you must be a piss-poor lawyer..eh..?

the evidence here is you couldn’t argue yr way out of a brown paper bag..

..eh..?

(and..)

“..So you obviously don’t understand the global financial crisis you claim to have predicted!..”

but you obviously do..

..pray..do tell..!

(psst..!!..you could trawl through all those comments of mine you have collected..for ideas..eh..?..)

..you weird/stalking lawyer-person..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 6:09pm
Hurf Durf

Hey Phool, you Marxist leech, a Chavez stooge has been kicked out of Honduras! Good news!

..eh..?
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June 30, 2009 6:10pm
philu

btw nosty..are you the weird lawyer-dude who pretended to be me..

..and made false/malicious alterations to john keys’ entry in wikipedia..in my name..?

..that sora weird shit really has your fingerprints all over it..

..given that you already are a weird/stalking lawyer-dude..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 6:11pm
Father Ted

.”pray..do tell..!”

Give the bong a rub phool just maybe a four eyed monster might appear on the scene and bite your head off.
One can only pray for such an event.
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June 30, 2009 6:13pm
philu

yeah hurf..rightwing terrorists/stooges overthrew a democratically elected leftwing president..in sth america..

..so..what else is new..?

(that’d be those ‘freedom forum’ types again..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 6:14pm
philu

as legible/logical as always..i see d4j..

(father ted was the drunken one/the ‘soak’..wasn’t he..?

kinda fits you chose that as yr new ‘persona’..

..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 6:17pm
llew

Father Jack was the soak.
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June 30, 2009 6:28pm
Hurf Durf

WRONG. As per usual, the international anti-Western left get it wrong and side with the socialists. Par for the course, naturally.

If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that Manuel Zelaya, a power hungry Chavez stooge, attempted to hold a referendum deemed illegal by the Supreme Court. When Zelaya instructed the Army chief, Romeo Vásquez Velásquez, to carry out the logistics of the referendum (including getting ballots – from VENEZUELA), he refused due to its illegality. He was then duly sacked and Zelaya and a bunch of “citizens” (see “paid thugs”) went and stole them from the army base. Things come to a head, and Mr Chavez-Zelaya is overthrown and power transferred to the head of Congress and fellow Liberal Party member, Roberto Micheletti, who will serve out the remainder of Zelaya’s term until the elections in November. Just because you are “democratically elected”, does not mean you are democratic. Just ask Ahmedinejad.

I wouldn’t mind a military coup against Gordon Brown, actually.
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June 30, 2009 6:33pm
Nomestradamus

Phool:

Goodness – should I be flattered to be the target of your vitriolic abuse?

So far on this thread you’ve accused me of being Terry, and of editing Wikipedia entries (which I have no idea how to do). Ever get sick of making shit up?

And, as for blowing it out of my arse, why can’t you admit that you got those election predictions (national election and Mt Albert by-election) horribly horribly horribly wrong. I think you’re the one with foot-in-arse.

..and hey..you must be a piss-poor lawyer..eh..?

the evidence here is you couldn’t argue yr way out of a brown paper bag..

I’ll let people who know me judge my legal skills; a drug-fucked wreck like you is hardly in a position to judge. Oh, and your talents are what exactly? Smoking dope and sucking of the public tit. Anything else I’ve missed?
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June 30, 2009 6:45pm
Nomestradamus

Reid:

If, by chance you’re reading this thread, could you please let Philu know that you’re not me and I’m not you. Then could you confirm that these were your words:

Phil, ever since you lost very very badly indeed in the inaugural EWO contest [*], you’ve been bitter toward Mr Nomestradamus and taken every opportunity to attack him. You never made a point of it before that event, and the timing is striking.

[*] EWO contest is here.

The timing is indeed striking, and makes Phool look like a sore loser.

Oh, and Reid, you might have trouble getting through to Phool: he’s either puffing away on hallucinogenic fumes or in a drug-induced coma.
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June 30, 2009 7:04pm
philu

(heh..!..)..gotcha..!

um..!..r u reddy..?

..phil(whoar.co.z)
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June 30, 2009 7:30pm
starboard

philu (4436) Vote: 0 0 Says:

June 30th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
(heh..!..)..gotcha..!

um..!..r u reddy..?

..pffft..
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June 30, 2009 7:44pm
Nomestradamus

Phool:

Oh, so I’m Redbaiter now?

You’re a Class A ~~drug~~ troll.

You claim to have an MA from Auckland University (a claim which some Kiwiblog commenters have questioned) and yet your debating style is shallow. Pathetic even. Have you got no life that you need to make up nicknames for Kiwiblog commenters and try and bait them on a daily basis? Shouldn’t you be looking for a real job instead?

You repeatedly accuse me of stalking you. I’ll let others be the judge of that claim. How fascinating, though, that you repeatedly make ad hominem remarks about me on threads I haven’t even commented on – like on this thread. I have to agree with Reid when he says you’ve got a sore-loser complex.

You’re not exactly a poster child for drug reform. I’ll content myself in that I’ll never smoke dope and turn out like you, and I’ll certainly be encouraging my child not to turn out like you.
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June 30, 2009 8:13pm
Hurf Durf

It’s not shallow, Nomestradamus. It’s non-existent.
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June 30, 2009 8:19pm
terry

hey philu….

i post under my real name..”terry”…im man enough to use my real name…

hey honestly i know someone else with a masters in politics….he does the weather on morning television…did childrens television..what now…and won dancing with the stars..and has someone called gok wanting to marry him….

i dont have honours or the like… i have to many friends and other activities to occupy my time…being too overly educated can be a sign of social failure…..all brains but can not function in the real world…
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June 30, 2009 8:28pm
philu

you-really-need-to-get-a-life..nosty..

..this is getting decidedly weird..

..do you have pictures of me up on yr wall..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 8:47pm
philu

“..I’ll content myself in that I’ll never smoke dope..”

we could be narrowing down the source of yr problems..eh..?

i mean..you are one (uptight) weird/stalker lawyer-person..eh..?

..you need to chill with de ‘erb..mon..!

..and learn to relaaax..!

..(and stop obsessing..eh..?..)

.get loose..!..mon..!

..you are about to blow a fuse..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 8:52pm
Tauhei Notts

Terry at 7.47 a.m.
If the railways had somebody to subsidise them like the road transport industry have to subsidise them, then rail freight would be dirt cheap compared to road transport.
Now if that comment gets you, consider this;
“If a mini motor car travels over a strip of McAdam road, twenty four thousand times it will do as much damage to that strip of McAdam road as a 40 tonne truck travelling over that piece of road ONCE.
QUESTION ONE How much road user charges does that truck pay for that one journey?
QUESTION TWO How much road user taxes, included in the cost of petrol, does the owner of that mini car pay for the 24,000 trips over that piece of road?
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June 30, 2009 8:54pm
philu

i just listened to lee dorsey doing ya ya..!

..fuck that’s a good song…

now it’s leon russel..doing stranger in a strange land..

(how are the ‘files’ there nosty..?..keeping you warm..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 9:31pm
reid

“i just listened to lee dorsey doing ya ya..!

..fuck that’s a good song…”

Lita Ford. Kiss me deadly.

That’s a good song.
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June 30, 2009 10:00pm
philu

leonard cohen took a while..

..now i’m wading through lou reed..

(mmm!!!..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 10:07pm
Father Ted

I thought Michael Jackson singing Bong It would be more to your taste Mr Whore.
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June 30, 2009 10:10pm
Shunda barunda

Philu, you haven’t been telling tales about me on frog blog for a few days, did you have a scrap with the greenies?
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June 30, 2009 10:21pm
reid

Nome: just read your 7:04.

Phil, I would have thought you’d be able to tell the difference in syntax between Nome and I.

I’m not a mere persona, phil, I started blogging before KB was born, on Kiwipundit. As I recall, Nome came along in the last few years. reid is my real christian name and I’ve in previous posts revealed my real email and my real residential location – just google the gaza threads last Christmas. You’re welcome to meet with me if you’re ever in Wgtn. Let me know if you want contact details.

Please in future, never conflate Nome and I as an argumentative tactic, it just diminishes the quality of your own contributions. I personally think they add a dimension. I’m not sure what others think.
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June 30, 2009 10:26pm
reid

Just another thing Phil, I think that you need to think about the fact this is a public forum, which means we all benefit from the input given from all.

That means, it’s not a fight between the most insulting.

It’s an intellectual contribution.

Nome amongst others have highly specific insights to offer and it’s a shame for them to be diverted by you onto peripheral matters which they feel honour-bound to defend but which nevertheless, diminishes their ability to contribute to the greater good.
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June 30, 2009 10:33pm
philu

shunda..!..newsflash..!

..it isn’t all about you..

..in fact..it isn’t even a little about you..

..but now that you mention it..

..it is quite strange how you pretend to like them..there..

..and then you come here..and piss on/jeer at them..

..you belong over in the ‘strange’ corner..

..meet nosty..!..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 30, 2009 10:42pm
reid

Phil, I challenge you.

For the next month, starting July 1.

Never ad homina other commenters, no matter the provocation.

Critique anything and everything else.

Do it mate, and I will support you in every way, not that you need it.
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June 30, 2009 11:03pm
Shunda barunda

“..but now that you mention it..

..it is quite strange how you pretend to like them..there..

..and then you come here..and piss on/jeer at them..”

philu, I do like SOME of what SOME greenies have to offer, bjchip would be a good example, but I strongly state my position in oposition to them on frog blog when I don’t agree.
Most people are not opposed to true sustainabilty phil, when you break it down it equates to not sh!ting in your own nest!!
One thing I am totally opposed to is the majority of the greens social agenda, and I have never been two faced about that.
I am involved in quite a “green” profession so I am naturally drawn to discussion on green issues, I just don’t share the extreme socialist agenda.
Maybe you should try agreeing with your “enemies” once in a while phil, you may gain a bit more credibility.
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July 1, 2009 12:05am
Nomestradamus

Reid:

Thanks for your thoughtful 10:33pm contribution.

I used to enjoy Kiwiblog more than I do now. Certain commenters like F E Smith bring a lot of informative content to the discussion table. I try to bring something to the discussion table too, where I feel I have something to contribute; but as you say, Philu’s persistent personal attacks across multiple threads (and he accuses me of stalking!) is something of a hindrance.

Unfortunately, some commenters – the likes of Philu – tend to be disruptive and spoil the enjoyment factor for me (and I suspect for many others). Reading back over this thread, Philu has completely trashed it with ad hominem attacks, generally petty name-calling, on a number of commenters (not just me – but I’ve been singled out for particular mention, apparently) – and in the process has ruined a couple of interesting lines of discussion.
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July 1, 2009 1:16am
Cerium

A good feature of the blog would be “Hide User X” – you would only need to be able to select a handful to improve the blog a lot.
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July 1, 2009 8:27am
philu

reid..all right..!

i’ll give it a go…!

(you silver-tongued/persuasive devil..you..!)

..for a month you say..?

..starting today..?

..ok..

(and could someone give nosty a hug for me..?..he does seem a bit discombumbulated/put-out..eh..?..)

(sorry..!..last one..!..)

..bring it one..!..inciters..!

..i am now..for one month..deaf to your insults..

..i will just comment/argue on the stupidity..(sorry..!..lack of intellectual rigor..)..of the bankrupt ideologies on display/parade here..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 1, 2009 8:46am
reid

Thanks phil, KB will be the better for it, I know.
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July 1, 2009 8:44pm

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