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June 26, 2009 6:42am by David Farrar

General Debate 26 June 2009

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General Debate

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philu

and of course..as the former head of ibm is advocating..

..there is always the much-needed capital gains tax..

..he advocates that to end the greed-game..

..that tax should be 80%

http://www.kitco.com/ind/nadler/jun252009A.html

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 8:00pm
philu

yeah right nosty..

..you mean like the sub-prime driven economic meltdown i’ve been writing/warning about on whoar..and predicting here..

..since august 2006..?

..as i recall..you were one of those who lined up to sneer..

..eh..?

..is that ‘sneer’ a tad frozen now..

..as it has all come to pass..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 8:08pm
big bruv

Phool

I had hoped we could have a reasonable chat about your “idea’s”, sadly it seem that you have nothing better to add to the discussion than the tired old legalise dope argument and your long hoped for communist uprising.

Perhaps you are trollied at the moment but you may have overlooked the fact that we live in the most apathetic country on the face of the earth, we suffered through nine years of the most corrupt govt in our nations history yet the people shrugged their shoulders, moaned about it and did NOTHING, we have now elected a man who promised to be the leader of the national party and has turned out to be nothing more than Comrade Klark in better fitting pants.

Two things I can promise you, one is that we will never have legalised dope and the other is that you will never see an “uprising”, the people of this country are by and large too fucking lazy and too fucking stupid, if they put up with Klark and Comrade Bradford stealing their rights and elections they sure as hell are not going to get all up in arms about a socialist leading the National party.
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June 26, 2009 8:12pm
Nomestradamus

Phool:

Reid has taken you to task – many times, I believe – over your claim to have “predicted” the global financial crisis. You should take it up with him.

On your claim that cannabis will be legalised, and that resulting tax revenues can finance a government cash-splash, why do you suppose Labour or National will ever swallow that political bullet?
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June 26, 2009 8:14pm
side show bob

I love the call for a capital gains tax, the result of years of failed socialism inflicted upon this country. Why do people invest in property? because the state is hell bent on removing any form of wealth a citizen might be stupid enough to put in the bank or invest in a product or service that promotes tax. At the moment property rights are usually respected and this is the only form of wealth generation the government has not yet had the balls to attack.
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June 26, 2009 8:16pm
side show bob

“Comrade Klark in better fitting pants”, priceless big bruv, can I use that one or is it subject to copy write.
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June 26, 2009 8:26pm
big bruv

ssb

Although I would love to claim ownership of that little gem I must be honest and say that I have heard or read it somewhere else first.

So, knock yourself out!.
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June 26, 2009 8:30pm
philu

you just keep on railing on into that dark night..eh bloody hands..?

your time will come soon enough..

..how is the bank manager..?..b.t.w..?

nosty..any ‘predictions’ i made were linked to/derived from the writings of those who first sounded the alarm..

..i don’t know w.t.f.you are on about someone called ‘reid’..?

..were they around in the time of kumble..?

..i mean..sheesh bruv..you asked for examples of ‘ideas’ to raise revenue..

..i gave you two..

..one (likely) supported by treasury..(low-income-earner stimulus..funded by legal-pot-tax)

..the other by that noted ‘socialist running dog’..the former ceo of ibm..(capital gains tax..)

..that’s more ideas than most of the morons commenting here have had in their sad/sorry lives..

..but hey..!

..(oh..!..and one for you/any ‘green-shooters’ out there..

..what nobody is talking about..yet..it the fact that the sub-prime ‘thingy’ will have a peak in dec ’09..

..this is ‘cos a massive tranche of them come up for renewal/roll-over then..

..and nobody is ‘rolling’ for them..

..eh..?

..oo-err..!

..eh..?

d’yareckon that’ll be the tipping-point..?

i guess time will tell..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 8:40pm
side show bob

Phil just read that the orthodox church in Ethiopia is to display the Ark of the Convent this Friday, this has also been confirmed by the press in Israel, we live in interesting times. I do hope God isn’t a fruit cake socialist.
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June 26, 2009 8:50pm
philu

do you mean the ark of the covenant..?

..and yeah..!..they are ‘interesting times’..

..he’s gonna come back and drive out the animal-abusers..

..you do know that..?

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 9:01pm
side show bob

Yeah you got that right,wrong covenant, big story, good chance the shit will hit the fan. Do you not know that god gave mankind rule over the animals and he wasn’t short on offering a lamb or two to the altar. I don’t think God is to big on veges
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June 26, 2009 9:09pm
philu

when did ‘god’ actually say/do that..?

i must have missed that..

..and do you believe your theology supports you earning your ‘dirty/blood-soaked money..?..by the institutionalised cruelties you engage in…?

..really..?

i do have a reference book of biblical quotations here..

..and i could play ‘throw the biblical-quote’ with you..

.but meh..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 9:14pm
philu

so..’god’ supports factory-farming…eh..?

..he created pigs to live in stalls..and chooks to live short/brutish lives..12 to a cage..

..who knew..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 9:20pm
side show bob

1) Yes, God wanted Abraham to offer up his son but he settled for a sheep (probably NZ lamb)

2)yes you missed that

3)Yes but much of the institutionalised cruelties you speak of are a product of you one eyed view of the world

4)really

5) cool go for it

6) why bother any religion like politics or law usually lies in the hands of those with the biggest stick, this does not make them right though
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June 26, 2009 9:25pm
Dusky

Sideshow Bob – you’re right that the bibical God wasn’t too big on vegetables. From memory as a kid, I remember reading in bible stories that Cain sacrified his vegetable produce from the fields, and Abel sacrificed a lamb. It was the rejection of Cain’s sacrifice that angered him and led him to murder Abel.

I remembered thinking that it wasn’t all that fair for Cain – what was wrong with the veges?

In any case, it’s hardly news that leftwing governments generally prefer to keep people under state control. It’s easier to get votes when they need you looking after them to survive, rather than having the people looking after themselves.
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June 26, 2009 9:30pm
philu

dusky..that story was first put about by the lamb marketing board..

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 9:37pm
side show bob

Thanks Dusky it’s good to have someone with a few brain cells around here. I have no beef (pun) with those that chose to go the vege way, what pisses me off is their sanctimonious attitude to those that enjoy a good bit of meat.
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June 26, 2009 9:38pm
philu

“..Thanks Dusky it’s good to have someone with a few brain cells around here..”

i dunno about that..

..he/she’s a bit gullible..eh..?

(cf..lamb marketing board ploy..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 9:43pm
Dusky

It’s a she, Philu.

Now go play with your Mavis Beacon, dear. You’ll learn to type eventually.
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June 26, 2009 9:48pm
Nomestradamus

Phool:

.i don’t know w.t.f.you are on about someone called ‘reid’..?

..were they around in the time of kumble..?

Reid is a fairly regular commenter here.
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June 26, 2009 9:49pm
philu

i’ve never called it ‘mavis beacon’ before..

..but hey..!

..and nosty..

..oh..!

i must have been away that day..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 9:55pm
side show bob

Wots wrong Phil run out of bible quotes. Yes Dusky, you are on to it with only 17 posts, your comment on left wing governments is dead on track. Sadly Philu is coming up to 5000 posts and the penny has not drop yet for him, so sad.
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June 26, 2009 9:56pm
reid

Yeh you remember me, phil.

I tried to tell ya, don’t write like that… when you first started.

You didn’t listen and now your posts apparently are skipped by various people merely by virtue of your signature style.

In some ways I thought you might have remembered but in other ways I imagine with the short-term memory loss and all, it’s sometimes hard even to know what day it is.
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June 26, 2009 9:57pm
reid

“Sideshow Bob – you’re right that the bibical God wasn’t too big on vegetables.”

Actually, sorry to disappoint, SSB and Dusky.

Little thing called GARDEN of Eden? Not too many carnivore fests recorded in there. Perfect environment provided you kept away from “that” Tree.
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June 26, 2009 10:02pm
philu

yeah..sorry there reid..

ships that pass in the night..and all that..

..back in the kumble days..were you..?

..they were when the war-drums were beating here the loudest..eh..?

the armchair warriors were squirting jism all over their screens.keyboards..

..whoar..!

..at least that cacophony has passed/finished..eh..?

..anyway…

..mavis calls..must go..

..(‘i’m under starters’ orders..)

phiil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2009 10:05pm
side show bob

Oh come on Reid I bet Adam was parshall to a bit of pussy.
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June 26, 2009 10:10pm
Dusky

I feel a little funny even coming close to debating vegetarian theology on kiwiblog, but what the hey.

I’ll freely admit that I find it hard to believe Adam and Eve ate meat before the ‘fall’. All those lovely brightly coloured pictures I remember showed them surrounded by purring lions etc … not standing next to the barbie with a plate stacked with bread and a plastic tomato. But if you’re convined they were vegetarians while ‘pure’, it’s still not something that was necessarily advocated as godly behaviour after the fall.

When they were turned out of the garden, God provided them with animal skins to wear. That’s the first hint of slaughter in the bible.

Then there is the Cain and Abel incident – which I looked up just to check my memory wasn’t playing tricks. The vegetables were rejected, and Abel’s sacrifice of a lamb was taken by God, and then succeeded by ritual animal slaughter becoming routine in the Jewish faith – first with the animals being slaughtered, and then with the meat being eaten by the priests of the temple.

There’s the Abraham and Isaac incident Sideshow Bob mentioned earlier – where Abraham was instructed to slaughter his son against his wishes, but saved at the last instant by the substitution of a lamb – symbolising the eventual substitution of Jesus for mankind.

The bible is saturated with instances of animal sacrifice – Hebrews 9:22 says “And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no remission.”

I’m not about to say that being a vegetarian is necessarily ungodly, but I don’t think the bible can be used as evidence against the eating of meat. If anything, pretty much the reverse, since it’s riddled with slaughter. The best arguments I’ve ever known in favour of vegetarianism have been entirely to do with health. Moral ones usually make me want to dig into a nice bloody steak … which is saying something, as I get queasy and always order my meat well done 🙂
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June 26, 2009 10:46pm
reid

The point I was making Dusky, is that all that you refer to occurred after the original sin.

After that point, we were a fallen race, condemned to wallow in our own crapulence.
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June 26, 2009 10:58pm
Dusky

Fully acknowledged – my only point is that God to all biblical evidence supported and encouraged that particular crapulence 😉

Think I’ll stop posting on this particular topic now, as I’ve definitely contributed more than my fair share of words.
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June 26, 2009 11:06pm
reid

“Fully acknowledged – my only point is that God to all biblical evidence supported and encouraged that particular crapulence”

Personally my reading is that He accepted the fallen state, much like a parent would if their children did something from which there was no going back. I’m not sure you can read “encouragement” into that, more like acceptance of that regrettable incident and make the best of it, for the sake of the child.
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June 27, 2009 12:10am
Nomestradamus

Philu:

I came across this comment of yours:

i agree about getting bolshie in mt albert..

it’s a big ask..and goes against all the pundits’ predictions..

but a three-way split in the vote might just be possible..

and russel might just pull it off..

(i’ve got a ten dollar bet with another green..(no names..!..you’ll blacklist him/her..)..

..on norman becoming the next mp for mt albert..

..so now i have a financial interest in the outcome..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

So Norman isn’t the next MP for Mt Albert, and you lost your $10 bet.

BTW, did you get Big Bruv’s permission to spend your DPB in that way? 🙂
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June 27, 2009 1:33am
Manolo

“So Norman isn’t the next MP for Mt Albert, and you lost your $10 bet.”

You believe this Luddite bludger is going to pay his debt? Never.

Whoar, the parasite, will do whatever it takes to avoid forking out. His miserable life is limited to suck other people off, trying to get every thing for free, which means at someone else’s expense.
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June 27, 2009 6:46am

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