General Debate 14 June 2009

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment45

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (45)

Login to comment or vote

Redbaiter

See the Herald editorial writer comes out against Rod Hide’s plans to pry Auckland free of the insidious leftist power groups that have made local government in the region almost completely dysfunctional.

Man I’m so sick of these yellow so called “journalists'” who are completely unable to think outside of the leftist paradigm, and the way they use their media resources to shape political thinking at the expense of any real alternative views.

Labour party stooges.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:04am
billyborker

The continuing decline into irrelevance of the neo-cons.

The neoconservative movement has recently suffered several blows. The sun has set on the pugnacious New York Sun, which served as a valuable outlet for neoconservative journalists and authors. The American Enterprise Institute has ousted several neoconservatives, including Joshua Muravchik, from its roster of fellows. But no magazine, it can be safely said, has become more important to the fate of the movement than the Weekly Standard.

http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=21596
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:05am
billyborker

Then reddy, start your OWN fucking newspaper.

I am so sick of you right whingers contnually trying to tell business owners how they should run THEIR businesses. You want a say, buy in to the company.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:07am
Simon

Can’t handle the real world & want an easy big paying job in govt. Join Grassroots labour.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:12am
Viking2

Worthy things. Question; what is it that Key knows about Worth?
We all now know about the two women who have attempted to entrap him, who now are shown to be charlatans of the worst kind.
Key sacked Worth for lack of trust; that’s been made clear.
So what is the issue?
Just looking about at outstanding issues here. What have we?
Well there is a bunch of emails that fell into the wrong hands eh. No couldn’t be could it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:18am
TimG_Oz

Can someone plase tell me if this is a comment on changing standards in society…

Last night I went to see a movie – Terminator: Salvation. OK, so apart from the fact that I have poor taste in movies (this is not a review), on the way out I noticed there were several families that had brought their children I am talking ages between 5-7

Firstly, I thought that (even here in Australia) that ratings prevented people from taking children to inappropriate movies. When I was that old, I used to get scared by Doctor Who (I am talking 70s Dr Who with Jon Pertwee!). This movie was very violent, and also quite graphic (very advanced special effects make things so much more real).

So my question – have our standards changed? Are our children now so de-sensitised to violence that they are able to cope with this level of graphic images? Or has there been a serious breach of the law? Maybe with the GFC, they couldn’t afford babysitters.

BTW – the movie screening time was 8:45 – so the kids were up to about 11pm!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:26am
MT_Tinman

I have been surprised at how much effort the quasi-communist scum, particularly the slime, put in to this unlosable by-election.

They are obviously totally terrified of free thinking as promoted by the right.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:27am
Fletch

Just for a bit of weekend fun: anyone else seen the ‘Scary Washing Machine‘ for sale on Trade Me?
Worth having a look at for a laugh. HEAPS of people have left comments.

And no, I’m not the seller.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:28am
Bullitt

So sick of scary washing machine. Its not even funny yet its everywhere.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:39am
Fletch

Its not even funny yet its everywhere.

Really? I only heard about it because a friend emailed me. I haven’t seen it anywhere else…Perhaps I am out of touch (as usual) 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:47am
chrisw76

I must admit that I have been very surprised that we have been obsessed with what frankly was a pissant by-election in Mt. Albert, when a far more interesting democratic election has been taking place in Iran. The results in Mt. Albert likely change almost nothing for New Zealand in general, with the exception of moving the Labour caucus slightly to the right, but the results in Iran could potentially lead to a real change in that countries dealings with the world.

Cheers, Chris W.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:51am
Poliwatch

“So my question – have our standards changed? Are our children now so de-sensitised to violence that they are able to cope with this level of graphic images? Or has there been a serious breach of the law? Maybe with the GFC, they couldn’t afford babysitters.”

I note you said several families. If our standards had dropped that much it would have been packed wall to wall with families. Unfortunately there has been and will always be people in our society that cannot rationalise what is right and wrong for children – and I say that without wanting to foist my own values on them. they will be different to these families and probably different to yours.

Also unfortunately the people that cannot rationalise this appropriate behaviour are more likely to not do it either at the movies or in their own homes. It would be interesting to see a study looking at the correlation between those watching movies with different levels of violence and different levels of age groups watching – and domestic violence.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:51am
billyborker

How many countries are in Iran?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:52am
Redbaiter

I see where Ralston is flat out this morning trying to cover for the arrogant political bias of his Labour voting media cronies.

Sure Melissa Lee made some errors of judgment, but they were never as serious as the media made them out to be.

David Shearer did not suffer a fraction of the scrutiny that so called journalists applied to Melissa Lee.

Every election, Labour tees up their “journalist” mates, and says- “Standby, we’ll get you something to use as soon as.”

And they do, and no matter how piffling, the scum left wing media beat it up for all its worth. They follow the same old same old Labour Party strategy- No discussion on the issues, just destroy the non Labour candidate personally.

Ralston’s column is just arse covering bullshit. The media in this country are predominantly left wing in their political sympathies and that is the real reason Melissa Lee lost so badly.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 12:21pm
SK

Tim G: NZ & Aus have pretty similar rating systems, a movie like Terminator is usually rated M, therefore it’s recommended for mature audiences 15 & over. Cinemas will tell parents this, but it is the parent’s choice to let them see it. Only when it has an R rating can they deny admission based on age. And even then parents still try and take their kids to R16/R18 movies and get upset when the cinema staff don’t let them in.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 12:51pm
reid

The press coverage of the Iranian election and its aftermath is an example of what I’ve been saying all along about media manipulation.

It’s everywhere and the world’s press is doing it’s best first to setup the impression that Ahmadinejad didn’t have any support and now with banner coverage of nothing but protests, that it was fixed.

See, useful idiots are on both sides of the fence. Media manipulation does NOT happen in only one direction. Believing that is the height of naivity yet many useful idiots on the conservative side are only too happy to accept manipulation when they proclaim it as ‘lefty bias’ but those same people completely ignore the manipulation that’s been going on for years, about Iran being an evil empire bent on Israel’s destruction.

This latest coverage is merely another piece in that particular jigsaw and I expect many useful idiots on the conservative side will meekly accept that perspective without any critical analysis whatsoever.

It would be funny if it wasn’t so important, because it’s only when you can see through that particular bullshit that you’re able to perceive things as they happen, like the fact that the Iraq war was a complete jack-up from the start. Personally I knew it was before the invasion began and over the years most other people have also understood that fact but only as information has slowly filtered out. Staggeringly, even now, some of the more obtuse useful idiots on the conservative side still believe it was legitimate.

They’re the people Lincoln was talking about when he said: “You can fool some of the people ALL of the time…”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 12:54pm
TimG_Oz

Reid – it’s interesting how you are talking about media manipulation. Iran has it’s media heavily locked down by the fundamentalist regime, while in the West most of the media outlets are acknowledging that it’s too difficult to tell the actual result of the election because of Iran’s media lockdown.

And you seem to be blaming the West’s media? This sounds like it could be another of your conspiracy theories….
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 1:33pm
reid

“This sounds like it could be another of your conspiracy theories….”

You mean like the Iraq invasion being based on bullshit, Tim?

Don’t tell me YOU think it was legitimate. I thought you were quite bright…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 1:41pm
TimG_Oz

PW & SK – you are correct, this was just a single example – but the fact that I saw two similar families at the same showing (which was not full) may represent that there is an element of parents that do not see it as inappropriate. And I agree, it is probably more prevalent in the home, than in public…

I remember a similar example when I went to a smoky pub to watch the 2001 Super 12 final … Some people (who obviously didn’t have foxtel at home) decided to bring their babies!!

Surely you must agree standards have changed in the last 20 years. There used to be a stricter ratings system, and movies were never this graphic (as technology has facilitated advances here).

Just because people do bring their kids (and demand their right to do so) – hardly makes it right! I’m sure there have been many studies done (as PW suggested) – I would be interested if anybody knows any examples .
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 1:42pm
TimG_Oz

No Reid – I’m referring to your accusation against the World’s press on this particular example of Iran’s elections.

Don’t you think that it’s strange that many were predicted the result to be the other way, whilst Iran’s economy goes due south. Do you really approve of Ahmadinejad’s rhetoric and actions.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 1:45pm
Christopher

On Stuff.co.nz: http://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/2499333/Lets-hear-it-for-our-load-of-right-bankers

This sentence caught my eye,

The Reserve Bank’s poor Dr Bollard, he’s done his best.

Atlas Shrugged anyone?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 1:55pm
SK

Tim G: No I don’t think it’s right. I’m working as a duty manager at a cinema while finishing off my degree, and regularly try to persuade customers that particular films may be inappropriate for children. I rarely succeed, by far the most common response it “they are my children, it’s my choice.” Having said that I do get a lot of calls asking what ratings mean, and if films are suitable for certain ages. And although your example is of a few families, it is not unusual for violent films have a mainly family audience, particularly major releases such as Terminator. Some parents even feel it appropriate to leave kids to watch movies such as this by themselves and pick them up afterwards.

It’s also true that in the past films were much more likely to get R ratings than they are now, M seems to be the default unless it is especially violent or sexual.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 1:58pm
TimG_Oz

Thanks SK – I really appreciate your observations from the “front line”, rather than my anecdotal description.

I am also cynical about the movie industry, and I believe they know the standards and deliberately edit the films that are of extreme adult nature, in order to get around the ratings on technicalities.

In your opinion, do you think that the laws should be strengthened to prevent parents exposing children in this way? Or do you think it works fine as it is? I would really appreciate your thoughts on this…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 2:15pm
reid

Don’t you think that it’s strange that many were predicted the result to be the other way, whilst Iran’s economy goes due south. Do you really approve of Ahmadinejad’s rhetoric and actions.

Tim, I was merely pointing out that sometimes an ignorant person might think that something mooted is a conspiracy theory when in fact it’s not and Iraq is a perfect example of something that in the early days was thought by many to be such but which is now accepted as fact.

I do actually approve of Ahmadinejad’s actions in that a genuine theocracy is a pre-cursor for a genuine democracy and Iran under his leadership has become the most G-d-fearing nation on Earth bar-none. I just wish Israel’s leadership displayed the same adherence but some of them in fact are quite the opposite.

The press do not report his rhetoric accurately which is evidence of my original point. The “wipe Israel off the map” comment is a perfect example.

No-one has been able to explain why Iran would want to attack Israel. What’s the motivation? Apparently, to some, that missing piece of the puzzle doesn’t matter. For years now the press has fed the fire and many people seem to uncritically accept the conventional perspective without doing any investigation themselves into whether or not it’s true. When you’re talking about something as important as Iran and Israel, that’s a really dumb thing to omit to do.

Finally, I don’t think it’s strange at all Tim that he was re-elected while the economy was heading south. I don’t know what your position on G-d is, but mine is that He is real and therefore He acts in this fallen world frequently and often. As I said before, Iran is genuinely the most G-d fearing nation on Earth and Ahmadinejad’s public statements have frequently averred to its submission before Him. It would therefore be surprising to me if Ahmadinejad had not been re-elected.

Tim, I’m not really too keen to get into detailed debate about what evidence I have for my position since it’s a large complex subject and I find it rather tiresome to go over things like whether Ahmadinejad really said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map. All I wanted to do was to throw my perspective out there so that if some open-minded people wanted to do their own research they could. I’m sure that most will not accept what I say and that’s fine.

On a final note, I observe that the US hasn’t accepted Ahmadinejad’s victory and is looking into allegations of voter fraud. Does this mean that Iran should do the same in the US?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 2:20pm
SK

I think perhaps standards need not so much be changed as tightened to a point where films are more likely to be classified restricted. R16 can be too harsh for some films, which is why rating such as R13 or R15 should be used more often. At least with restricted films we have the law to back us up when parents get upset, or aggressive as sometimes occurs.

As to studios editing specifically for ratings, you are correct. Not really an issue for NZ since our ratings system is quite different to that in the US. But filmakers know exactly what is required to avoid an NC-17 rating in the US, and will even re-edit after the initial rating in order to get a “better” rating.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 2:37pm
Banana Llama

Have you Listened to Yuri Bezmenov as well Reid? i don’t hear useful idiots used much, Iran is in a right pickle though aren’t they, there are so many competing interests over the energy corridors they control I’m surprised that they have only had the one attempted invasion.
I guess the competing powers would rather leave that genie in the bottle and just try and subvert things through propaganda and drum up support amongst the public.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 3:33pm
reid

No I hadn’t come across him Banana, and thanks for that reference. He is explaining exactly what I’ve been observing.

If only more people understood.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 3:49pm
Chuck Bird

Here is yet another case of CYF and the police failing to take action when a child is seriously abused.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10578364&pnum=0

Teacher’s pleas for abused child ignored

4:00AM Sunday Jun 14, 2009

By Rachel Grunwell

Social Development Minister Paula Bennett wants answers after social workers took four months to remove a wheelchair-bound boy from his home following allegations he was was being beaten, burned with cigarettes and starved.

While the mother is facing charges of assault of the wheelchair-bound boy two of the boys siblings are still with the mother. CYF workers had commented “poor mum she’s not coping”. The police took seven months to take a formal statement from the teacher.

These are the same authorities who are meant to use discretion when investigation complaint about parents using reasonable force when physically disciplining their children.

Would I be unreasonable in thinking there may be considerable sexism the way the law is applied in cases of child abuse?

I have not looking at Public Address but I would be very surprised if Russell Brown and his ilk are at all concern about genuine child abuse.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 4:37pm
racer1

1 mistake for how many successes Chuck?

And surely you of all people are not in support of the state taking children away from their parents. It’s called tough love, if that boy wasn’t subjected to that behavior (which he must surely have deserved, else his noble struggling mother wouldn’t have done so) he may have grown up a criminal! How dare you suggest the state knows better than the boys own mother.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 4:45pm
philu

brash was on q&a this morn..

whew..!..that was a close call..!

.in ’05..

..eh..?

(..we had a lucky escape..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 4:52pm
reid

“(..we had a lucky escape..)”

Yeah Phil, instead, we got Hulun and Cullen who did absolutely nothing to position NZ for the GFC that we both saw coming at least as far back as 05.

If that’s what you call a lucky escape I’d hate to see your definition of an unfortunate calamity.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 5:58pm
Tauhei Notts

Whale Oil was brilliant on Radio Live, this evening.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 7:52pm
joeAverage

Having just watched Sunday on David B , i hope they have a good lawer these 4 persons , ,going on national tv and saying rape was planned and threatning family with guns, etc , a defimation case could follow soon i hope, i myself would sue the arse of the worried looking gym owner, and the westcoasters(hubby and wife ) you know the things you need to accuse a person? witnesses, proof documents you know those things you need before you appear on tv1 calling a person a potenial rapist etc
As a side issure what is wrong with the female reporters face , the little lady(wife)thinks its a bad face lift
PPS would you walk up to a strange female at a chior session and discuss raping a jogger (i dont think so) but prior to getting sued soon ,it was their little moment on tv
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 8:10pm
billyborker

The newspapers today are full of such happy news.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/margaret-thatcher-in-hospital-after-breaking-arm-20090614-c6zv.html
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 8:40pm
Christopher

Having just watched Sunday on David B , i hope they have a good lawer these 4 persons , ,going on national tv and saying rape was planned and threatning family with guns, etc , a defimation case could follow soon i hope, i myself would sue the arse of the worried looking gym owner, and the westcoasters(hubby and wife ) you know the things you need to accuse a person? witnesses, proof documents you know those things you need before you appear on tv1 calling a person a potenial rapist etc

Always best to actually look at the law of defamation before venturing such opinions, IMHO.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 8:46pm
Robert Black

Another disgusting pathetic display by ageing has-been TV1 journalists.

The squinty eyed carpet muncher this time.

I know, I am a lawyer, she goes, in the mirror before her piece. I am going to present four witnesses who had evidence supressed at the Dvaid Bain trial and I am going to show, without a reasonable doubt ladies and gentlemen of the New Zealand jury (TV ratings), that that little fucker did it!

Now, I call my first 4 witnesses. I edit out the bits that look bad. They don’t do that in court and I am not a lawyer but that is just a tiny detail. I mean who cares if their credibility cannot be tested? I am the judge here. I am a TV1 journalist and my shit doesn’t stink! What we say goes! Got it!

WTF!!?

We all knew about that evidence already anyway, but keep trying TV1, yeah, that’s it, add a little scary music, if only they used that music at the trial.

The only objective thing she said was that there were also defence witnesses who had their evidence ruled inadmissable. That must have been a slip by her a bit like the sea-gulls.

Then, in true Fair Go style, that other wash up Cammie baby came on and made it very clear that David Bain and Joe Karam had been invited to comment but they declined. Now that was the cutting edge that proves it Cammie doesn’t it? Guilty.

I mean, you wouldn’t have edited their replies at all would you, cut out all the bad bits for your case and high-lighted the good bits? Added a bit of music, ooh la la.

How dare they decline to appear to face the charges! Defend themselves! That’s guilty right there!

Well, done to the two learned barristers the squinty eyed carpet muncher and Cammie baby.

Cutting edge journalism and legalism rolled into one.

Fantastic.

TV1 I take it all back. You guys should an award (again).

Absolutely unbelievable stuff from TV1 (again).

🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 8:48pm
philu

the key/english government..?

them that are doing ‘absolutely nothing’ to fix our economic/environmental/social problems..

btw..how d’yareckon those poor mugs who voted for that ‘nice’/’honest’ john key..

..and have now been fired..

..and ..in a double whammy..find they also lose ‘working for families’..

..howd’yaeckon they’d be feeling about now..?

..about their vote for that ‘nice’/’honest’-john key..and his promises..eh..?

i mean..sheesh..!

..they thought they were voting for tax cuts..and closing the wage gap with australia’..eh..?

..they would be feeling the most ‘hollow-man-ed’..i reckon..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 8:52pm
Chuck Bird

Mr joeAverageor what ever your name is if you are so sure David is 100% innocent feel free to donate all you like. I believe New Zealand like many countries needs to have rules of evidence to decide what is admissible in court. However, there are a different set of rules when it comes to compensation. New Zealand has very generous compensation scheme. Do you know of a country with a more generous scheme?

The only people who heard all the evidence was the jury, the lawyers and the judge. Of the three the jury were grossly under paid. rather than pay a QC thousands why not pay the jury members a bit extra why not ask the jury members on the basis of probability if they believe David is guilty based on the evidence in court as well as the supressed evidence.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 9:01pm
reid

Well phil they’d have to be pretty freakin brain-dead if they believed what any side was saying during the campaign, wouldn’t they.

I mean, the writing was in flaming letters a hundred feet high. Several interesting points though.

What would YOU have done in Key’s position? Told the truth? And risked the election? C’mon. Be honest (and remember phil, we’re not idiots, be insightful too, you won’t get away with a light answer here).

Secondly, if The Greens are so fucking honest and wonderful, why didn’t THEY call bullshit during the campaign? Why didn’t The Greens publicly shout that Hulun and Liarbore were full of shit? Why? Is it because they are just like every other party in Parliament. Interested only in protecting their own turf? Or are they really for the NZ people? Same proviso applies here too, phil. Don’t treat us like idiots in your answer to this question either.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 9:28pm
philu

“..Well phil they’d have to be pretty freakin brain-dead if they believed what any side was saying during the campaign, wouldn’t they..”

that’s quite a depressing level of cynicism there..reid..

(but as far as their connivance on concealing the true nature of the economic crisis..i agree..

..both labour/national..and esp treasury/reserve bank..all deserve the public stocks for that one..

..and i personally think it was a big mistake that the greens did not stand up and call the truth..

..that both labour and national were peddling a mantra they both/all knew was a pile of horseshit..

..namely..that ‘happy days are here again’ for the economy..

..were just around the corner..

..not that we are heading for a cliff..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 10:05pm
TimG_Oz

I do actually approve of Ahmadinejad’s actions in that a genuine theocracy is a pre-cursor for a genuine democracy and Iran under his leadership has become the most G-d-fearing nation on Earth bar-none. I just wish Israel’s leadership displayed the same adherence but some of them in fact are quite the opposite.

This is the weirdest thing I have ever read. Seriously – you approve of Iran’s theocracy compared to Israeli democracy. So you approve of Iranian police arresting the opposition leader and supporters? You approve of them killing 16 year old girls for adultery? You approve of them hanging gays? And such appalling Human Rights record. And yet you criticise Israel non-stop for things that aren’t even reported.

Why do you hold such double standards? What is it that offends you about the Jews, that you demand they adhere to the strictest standards, but you admire this despot?

No-one has been able to explain why Iran would want to attack Israel. What’s the motivation?

I don’t know – what’s the motivation of stating that Israel will be wiped from the map (oh sorry the correct quote “the sands of time”). What’s the motivation for denying the holocaust, or holding the holocaust revision conference? What the reason for the failure to comply with the International Atomoic Energy regulations and seeking nuclear ambitions? What’s the reason for the missile tests? All OK with you?????

I’ve never heard Israel saying they are going to wipe Iran from the map (oh sorry “the sands of time”…..).

I don’t know what your position on G-d is, but mine is that He is real and therefore He acts in this fallen world frequently and often. As I said before, Iran is genuinely the most G-d fearing nation on Earth and Ahmadinejad’s public statements have frequently averred to its submission before Him.

Firstly my position is live and let live – tolerance for all, provided they follow a basic code of moral ethics. Your position is obviously clouded by your belief of the coming rapture or armageddon or whatever, and further clouded by your biases against whatever sin it is that you think the “Jews” have done or are doing (why else the double standard?). My position is having been and visited and spoken to the people.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 10:08pm
Murray M

David, General Debate 11 June 2009, billyborker in his comment no. 577 @ 6.52pm refers to Melissa Lee as a trollop. I’m a little pissed off at my 20 demerits now. I know you have discretion, but please show some consistency.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:05pm
reid

Let’s take it in reverse order, Tim.

further clouded by your biases against whatever sin it is that you think the “Jews” have done or are doing

I’ve never criticised the actions of the Jewish people, Tim. I’ve heavily criticised the actions of the govt of Israel. There’s a very big difference and I’m getting rather tired of pointing that out to you.

Your position is obviously clouded by your belief of the coming rapture or armageddon or whatever

I suggest you stay away from interpolating my spiritual beliefs based on my geopolitical comments. You don’t have a clue what they are, as I don’t about yours.

Firstly my position is live and let live – tolerance for all, provided they follow a basic code of moral ethics.

We agree on that, Tim. Shame the govt of Israel doesn’t share our mutual position, isn’t it.

I’ve never heard Israel saying they are going to wipe Iran from the map

Neither have I heard them say that specific phrase. But I’ve heard plenty of threats against Iran emanating from Tel Aviv. I hope I don’t need to provide links, I’m sure you’ve heard them too.

I don’t know – what’s the motivation of stating that Israel will be wiped from the map (oh sorry the correct quote “the sands of time”). What’s the motivation for denying the holocaust, or holding the holocaust revision conference? What the reason for the failure to comply with the International Atomoic Energy regulations and seeking nuclear ambitions? What’s the reason for the missile tests? All OK with you?????

So Israel’s allowed to have them but Iran isn’t? How consistent of you, Tim.

Why do you hold such double standards? What is it that offends you about the Jews, that you demand they adhere to the strictest standards, but you admire this despot?

I love the Jewish people Tim. I don’t really like the actions of the Israeli govt and I’ve it perfectly clear in previous posts just exactly why I think that. Basically, they act against the interests of the Jewish people. If someone actually deliberately determined to inflame Arab hatred and weaken the security position of the Jewish people, the Israeli govt couldn’t have done a better job in recent years. Are you happy with them for doing that? If so, why? Are you anti-Jewish?

This is the weirdest thing I have ever read. Seriously – you approve of Iran’s theocracy compared to Israeli democracy. So you approve of Iranian police arresting the opposition leader and supporters? You approve of them killing 16 year old girls for adultery? You approve of them hanging gays? And such appalling Human Rights record. And yet you criticise Israel non-stop for things that aren’t even reported.

No Tim, I actually don’t approve of everything that Iran does, particularly those things to which you refer that infringe on what we’ve come to call “human rights.” However G-d’s standards are absolute purity in every possible thing and part of that as a human is trying to be and become as pure as pure as pure as you can possibly achieve. Someone who is not of a religious mindset would have difficulty with what I just said but I know from your previous posts that you have an inkling at least of what I’m driving toward and you understand what I mean. It’s an impossible standard but the important thing is to meaningfully attempt to fulfil it. In those terms, Iran is adopting a much more faithful position than does Israel, at this current point in time.

You know what, Tim.

If you leave politics to one side, Iran and Israel actually have a great deal in common. I would not be surprised at all, to see some sort of alliance forming in the future. Of course, if you only look at the politics, then you wouldn’t see it, but I hope, from your G-d question last week, that you have other dimensions in your toolkit as well.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 14, 2009 11:05pm
TimG_Oz

I’ve heavily criticised the actions of the govt of Israel. There’s a very big difference and I’m getting rather tired of pointing that out to you.

Great. Except the successive governments of Israel you criticise are elected by the people of Israel. The Government of Israel is not a dictatorship (they must work for the people). Nobody or government is immune from criticism – except yours appears to be a blanket criticism on all fronts…..

But you are admiring the Iranian government – and this is a double standard.

Shame the govt of Israel doesn’t share our mutual position, isn’t it.

The Israelis are fine – it’s Ahmadinejad that seems to have all the problems…

So Israel’s allowed to have them but Iran isn’t? How consistent of you, Tim

No – I wish Israel didn’t have them. Or rather, I wish that it didn’t need them as a deterrant against attack from other nations.

I love the Jewish people

[excuse me I’m just on the phone to the Tui brewery with an advertising suggestion]

I think I can safely pass on the rest of your post. I’d rather not get into a religious debate here, which is really an inappropriate forum for that discussion.

But you know what – if you continue to post conspiracy theories, or unbalanced criticism, I will continue to challenge your arguments. In the past, it hasn’t been a particularly difficult thing to do
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 15, 2009 12:51am
starboard

The police took seven months to take a formal statement from the teacher.

…anyone tried to call the police lately ?? They are piss poor. Thanks Howard you waste of space.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 15, 2009 6:42am

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« And the results are …

Shearer on Labour »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

#climateemergency
Utopia
Do The Health Authorities Require Too Much From a GP?
No Minister
The h?koi was M?ori Party’s crowning glory – and provided plenty for Labour to think about
Point of Order
It’s National ACT NZF who are Dishonouring the Treaty + the day Moana Jackson knocked Gerry Brownlee on his bum
The Daily Blog
Not how much but how well
Hompaddock
Open mike 22/11/2024
The Standard
Drawn
No Right Turn
Regulatory Reform: Timid and too easily tamed?
Not PC
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d